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Gomrad Spurdo#HTmBuh 05/08/2020 (Fri) 14:04:19 No. 1451
How would you go about fixing the Isekai (sub?)genre from its current state of mediocrity and stagnation?
just end the genre and go back to making more regular fantasy anime
>>1451 To fix Isekai, you need a grand narrative. Why was we drawn to isekai? It's because that real world has become so bad we no longer hope for a good ending in a real world. A good isekai should be the one that not only provided escapism, but implicit show the solution to change the real world. That's why I really those isekai that have MC quickly accept such things as slavery, because it teaches the readers to think that the only problem with this real world is that they're born unluckily into lower class, but not the system itself.
>>1451 No OP bullshit powers No (generic) harem No webtoon art style No braindead MC That's all you need imo.
>ditch the generic copy-paste fantasy setting >develop the mc >don't spoonfeed the audience >actually develop the setting >real stakes >actually make being in a new world a conflict
>>1460 >No OP bullshit powers This is really the entire problem with the genre now, for me. As for the source of the problem? A bit of pasta from me on the subject: >Any Isekai that don't make the fantasy natives look like backward morons? <Most older series that are created before the recent isekai boom. >Huh. So where did this new arrogance come from? At first glance, I would've suggested the difference is vidya, since most of the newer and more cringey isekai are implicitly or explicitly running on JRPG/KMMORPG mechanics, whereas the older stories were just fantasy stories. But on some consideration, I think the difference is sex (and to a lesser extent, age). Basically all of the modern isekai are shonen with a smattering of seinen, whereas all the best old isekai I can think of were josei (Twelve Kingdoms) or shojo (Escaflowne, Fushigi Yuugi). During this time shonen/seinen fantasy of course existed, but very rarely using the pretext of parallel worlds.
>>1451 I don't know why nobody is talking about it,but the inherent problem of isekai,is that it's not a genre,it's just a pretext,a premise,there is like 4 actual isekai who actually use the whole "another world" trope as an actual scenario. There is a dire need to be an actual link between the real world and the fictional,something that makes the whole idea of going between worlds a meaningful choice for the story to go through. if there is not that,then it's just a generic fantasy story with no stakes. all the things >>1460 is complaining about is just bad powerfantasy writing,that has just been poured into it,because we're all craving dopamine in a shitty capitalist hellscape and it sells,so every editor and cynical artist tries to make a buck on it,and the fact that the current market for mangas is now just chasing around the ghosts of the past trying to remake the same thing over and over but having no idea or even envy to do it for most people,and even worse,going into a downward spiral were the demand is always created by the market,so everybody always wants the same thing in the end,if everything is shit,only shit is at the top. This apply also to "old" isekai were the story of the fantasy world is interesting,but the pretext is still utterly asinine.
>>1451 > current state of mediocrity and stagnation 1) Bring out another Season of Konosuba 2) Cancel grimdark edgelord shit like Re;Zero and Overlord as well as brainless shit like Log Horizon. 3) Take more obscure isekai LN series that have not been animated and make them.
>>1452 Hamefura, honzuki. Theres litterally two female protagonist isekai airing right now and theyre both great.
>>1451 >How would you go about fixing the Isekai (sub?)genre from its current state of mediocrity and stagnation? Less powerfantasy. 90% of isekai is basically just a "i went into some version of the past and i am now superhuman with my basic modern knowledge" or "i got litterally given godlike powers". Shows like doctor stone are also just isekais. Make the other world thing something actually meaningfull. At least half of isekais could work the exact same way with just a regular dude from the world they exist in right now. They just put in a dude or dudette from our own world in order to make it more relatable to the audience and because its an easy plot device. Like hamefura is great, but so far you could have had the literal exact same show if instead of the MC "regaining her memories" she just had a vision of those things. Though i guess that would rob us of the slight subversion (though it could have been a lot more on the nose for me tbh) of otome game tropes. Same for things like re zero. How would the show have been any different if the mc had been some random orphan that stumbled into the same place with the same curse? Him being from our own world literally does not play into the story at all. I still like hamefura and re zero though.
>>1608 >likes konosuba the most generic "comedy" isekai in existence >dislikes re;zero that has one of the most unique storylines what a fucking shit opinion
>>1453 This. We got some gems like Konosuba, but it's time to do other stuff. Maybe 20 or so years from now we will have some fresh ideas for isekai. Personally I would like to see some new attempts at stuff like Slayers and Record of the Lodoss War.
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>>1648 >Slayers <animation budget, never that big to begin with, goes down and down with each cour except for small cour-end bump for boss battles <last season isn't even adapting novels but it's still really good <scifi spinoff's animation budget hits rock bottom, canceled in first season <movies/ovas help blunt the pain, but only so much, and eventually dry up also subsequent movies aren't as good as the first movie nor the ovas <studio finally gets more money, fixes animation for home video, new slayers season coming up <voice cast scheduling conflicts, especially megumi-chan is busy with pokemon, love hina, shaman king, etc. <franchise dies <decade later <stars align <new anime seasons announced <official translations of novels even happen <supa hype <new seasons are solidly animated, but otherwise big letdowns, and are mostly original material rather than adapting from novels <mediocre performance <novel translations also halted early, right where anime adaptations did <literally nothing since except (pretty gud) alternate continuity manga FUUUUUUUUUUG. I can still dream, right? I mean, Jojo happened after all these years, even FMP got a new season.
>>1650 You never know. I guess it depends on how hard the animation industry gets hit by the new recession and how desperate Japan gets for material to adapt.
>>1451 just have more interesting, well-developed settings than 'Dragon Quest without Toriyama' that's all you really need to do
>>1652 Yeah, looking into it, the author launched a 3rd arc of mainline novels a couple years ago that's two volumes in by now. So there's a chance something interesting might happen with the franchise soon.
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>>1648 Yeah, I think we're really getting burned out. Too many anime have played around with reincarnation into worlds with video game settings. I don't even think the old hook of gender bendered reincarnation is novel anymore since everyone is so used to it and of trans people now. Personally I'd like another Crest of the Stars, with the same deeply thought out setting (the author tried to create his own language just like Tolkein), with epicness and romance. This time I'd just want with less princesses and more communism, and it'd be nice if the main characters weren't essentially fighting withing a neoliberal empire. I'm hoping the next generation of Japanese directors will be further left and so we'll see some pretty cool leftist fantasy soon instead of the usual nationalism + neoliberalism.
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>>1644 > the most generic "comedy" isekai in existence It isn't though. Just because Cautious Hero and other Isekai copy its gimmick doesn't mean it's generic since its one of the first to come out. Its satirical and politically incorrect without having an actual ideology and is thus amusing for it >re;zero <unique Time Loops have been an old hat since BEFORE Groundhog Day. Fuck there was a Naruto fanfiction published covering this EXACT concept before RE;Zero was even made. Re;Zero has an interesting CONCEPT, but executes it so horrendously that past the first 10 episodes, it becomes utter schlock. Like SAO it dangles interesting and good moments, only to then kick them to death, like that puppy in Elfen Lied. Edgy grimdark shit and "muh 1 true waifu" is shit that plagues Isekai like SAO or Re;Zero. Either execute the idea fully or don't taint it.
>>1673 >it'd be nice if the main characters weren't essentially fighting withing a neoliberal empire LOL, that's a bit of a humblebrag, to say the least. Crest/Banner of the Stars isn't liberal, isn't even feudal, it's outright fascist revanchism. The Abh are basically Space Imperial Japan, playing up their "inscrutabru orientur curture" to justify their totalitarian society as an exotic quirk, and their "teehee we live in space and just politely annex planets under Not!Colonial governors"-schtick is basically Space Co-Prosperity Sphere. But all of that is secondary to the central waifu plot. If you want a politically conscious take on the same basic setting, play SC2.
>>1673 I love Crest of the Stars. I have the old translated novels on my shelf. I hope they try adapting it again. A return to scifi anime would be fun. I'd like mecha to make a comeback too, but I'd be happy without it so long as we get more scifi.
>>1677 Honestly I really didn't like Re;Zero either. It wasn't bad, but I didn't understand the hype. I guess it had some cool waifus, but I want a little more than that in my anime.
>>1679 You totally correct, but I still loved the show and my fascist space elf waifu.
>>1451 I stop making them at such as fast pace, and actually pay my animators a livable wage instead of pocket change per cel.
>>1687 At least anime uses less 3rd-world sweatshop animation than "western" cartoons do
>>1687 Animation coops might be a better alternative. I'm sure it would still have shitty pay, but at least the grunts at the studio could feed themselves.
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>>1692 Anti-Seiyu Aktion
>>1687 *I would >>1688 I'm not familiar with the extent of outsourcing in western tv animation. >>1692 Have you heard of the Animator Dormitory Project? It looks pretty interesting.
Communist revolution isekai baybee. Something like gekokujo but with less child sweatshops and magic and more industrialization.
>>1688 I think KyoAni.does the.majority.of.their animation in-house and pays their animators well.
>>1699 I don't know how well the animators are paid, but they do get salaries which means the studio at bare minimum has to follow stricter labors laws. Given the quality of their animation and the fact they are one of the only studios that isn't paying per drawing I imagine a job there is super competitive.


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