/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"I ain't driving 20 minutes to riot."

Mode: Reply

Max message length: 8192


Max file size: 80.00 MB

Max files: 5


(used to delete files and postings)


Remember to follow the rules

/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

(562.63 KB 2048x1360 Brodski_lenin.jpg)
/QTDDTOT/ – Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Anonymous 10/11/2020 (Sun) 17:48:51 No. 983378
Last thread: >>906273 Question: What prevents price from having a 100% correlation with labor input?
>>983378 >What prevents price from having a 100% correlation with labor input? Speculation
(27.18 KB 557x275 proxy-image.jpeg)
>>983384 How exactly? Stock market speculation, even on average, seems way higher than a ~10% deviance from real value.
>>983378 I believe supply/demand plays a role in causing price to oscillate around the value
So LTV describes the price of things like the pay of a doctor versus that of a street-sweeper, right? How does this theory account for the pay of celebrities, who seemingly do no real labor but get way more money than other (?) workers.
>>983512 Because LTV is specifically meant to explain the value of mass produced goods. It really doesn't matter how much a celebrity is paid, it's not at all relevant to the LTV.
>>983429 I think this is beyond question, t. LTV-arguer in recent threads. It's a matter of geography and information. (Hence the specific developments of computer and information technology to supplement global capital)
>>983534 Mass-produced goods, or does that include the wages of workers as well? There are quite a lot of celebrities well, possibly fitting into the "mass-produced" description in some way too.
What do you guys think about the Lange model? I know it's not really socialism as we understand it, but what are your thoughts on it?
>>984368 >Market No thank you
Is there an opposite to dialectics? Whenever I hear about it, it seems so trivial and self evident that I don't really understand how its such a big topic of discussion.
>>984729 I guess analytical thought? Where you study a concept in isolation.
>>984729 Before Hegel, for example in Ancient Greece, dialectics didn't involve the antithesis, so it seems people weren't comparing two necessarily opposite things. Outside of dialectics entirely, not sure.
>>984810 shut the fuck and actually read hegel before you run your mouth and answer questions you aren't qualified to answer. there's no "antithesis" in hegelian dialectics and dialectics in ancient greece have nothing to do with hegelian conception of it, it was a synonym for argument
>One of Obama's biggest accomplishments was insuring millions of Americans and creating jobs Anyone got a debunk/nuanced view of this?
(44.05 KB 960x639 a.jpeg)
>>984864 >there's no "antithesis" in hegelian dialectics ?
Is the supply and demand chart unscientific?
>>984896 So you haven't read Hegel? He doesn't use the word antithesis, etc. even once.
>>985727 It may be true that he never used that word, but that's the way his way of dialectics is described a lot. From WP for example: >Hegelian dialectic, usually presented in a threefold manner, was stated by Heinrich Moritz Chalybäus as comprising three dialectical stages of development: a thesis, giving rise to its reaction; an antithesis, which contradicts or negates the thesis; and the tension between the two being resolved by means of a synthesis. In more simplistic terms, one can consider it thus: problem → reaction → solution. Although this model is often named after Hegel, he never used that specific formulation. Hegel ascribed that terminology to Kant. Carrying on Kant's work, Fichte greatly elaborated on the synthesis model and popularized it. >On the other hand, Hegel did use a three-valued logical model that is very similar to the antithesis model, but Hegel's most usual terms were: Abstract-Negative-Concrete. Hegel used this writing model as a backbone to accompany his points in many of his works.
>>985736 In the first source, Cockshott says the problem with the supply and demand curve is that it uses four numbers to find two parameters. Why is this bad, in simpler language? He also writes that this model is untestable, but doesn't it make predictions about price correlating with low demand at high supply and vice versa? That certainly sounds testable.
>>985898 >Why is this bad, in simpler language? See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferent_and_epicycle >He also writes that this model is untestable, but doesn't it make predictions about price correlating with low demand at high supply and vice versa? That certainly sounds testable. It's not testable because... >It can make none, since the supply and demand functions for the various commodities are not only contingently unknown, but are in principle unknowable. The theory says that the two functions uniquely define the price and quantity that will be sold on a particular day, but there are infinitely many pairs of lines that could be so drawn as to intersect at the point (q,p) in Figure 1. It is no good trying to look at how the prices and quantities sold vary from day to day, since the theory itself holds than any changes in price or quantity must be brought about by ‘shifts’ in the functions. Show some successful predictions that the model makes. Cockshott goes through (in one of the videos I linked, I believe) and tries to make predictions with oil prices using it, and fails.
How did Comecon work?
The last threads OP said that socialism will help incels and ugly guys by giving them more free time and better access to gyms. But I was thinking today, under socialism wont guys be unable to use having a good economic standing to attract women? I mean I'm not saying it's a good thing to completely economicaly dominate your spouse, that is clearly wrong. But lets face it, having a good job is a feather in the hat of the average guy. And women are attracted to those that can provide economic stability. If ugly guys don't have that wont they be unable to get attractive women?
>>984729 Someone explained it to me as this, cause I had the exact same thoughts as you "This is so simple why didn't anyone else think of it?" The opposition to diaectical materialism is idealism which is doing something to try to have an intended effect you have already thought of. Putting the cart before the horse. All right wing and lib policy is idealism they think about what they want to happen and then try and create policy that will meet that idealism. Lets say a right wing government has the ideal of trying to stop Islamic terror, they would say Ok the problem is Islamic terror so I will try to resrict the movements of Muslims I will ban them from my counry, I will enact heavy controls on muslims. A person following dialectical materialism would realise that islamic extremism isn't created in a vacuum and go after it's route cause (imperialism, economic inequality etc)
>>986476 comprehensive matchmaking services. if you are a AND POL'S GONNA PAY FOR IT!nt worker who really wants to start a family, we can find you someone. can't guarantee she will be the woman of your dreams, but you will have companionship. honestly, why do you think there is going to be some alienated incel class under socialism?
>>986523 word filter lmao
>>986523 So state mandated gfs?
>>986523 id rather be in incel class than having state-issued whore as wife
>>986558 >>986566 mandated =/= matchmade if the lady doesn't mutually like you, no dice. sorry lads, ethics is more important than sex. there will be plenty of lonely women too, don't worry.
actually there might be a vagina share pool every (untaken) woman owe 1 hour of sex per year to any incel you can get it by request there's a database / record that handle it something like social points system in china actually disabled also should get free sex especially since its in abundance / surplus
>>986579 yeah and an incel will have Sex Points, that he can spend on free sex say 12 sex points per year for free
(31.47 KB 719x533 dj2gqXJ.jpg)
>>986585 >>986579 you're banned from the system for suggesting it
>>986476 There will be other ways to gain status than money. Besides, relying on a good paying job to get girls is a shit strategy even now, unless you want a gold digging bimbo who'll cheat on you with the chad carpenter who fixes up your neighbors carrage. Having an honest to God personality and some wit will take you much further. Attraction and desire is more about someone being able to look at you and imagine an interesting future.
(114.39 KB 600x600 Anticapital.jpeg.jpg)
Can anyone come up with any decent, coherent arguments for why conservatism is the new punk? https://youtu.be/1CeHfz54LF8
>>986476 You are basically right -- socialism would be hell for the socially maladroit and ugly person in terms of dating life, but it would be a blessing in many other ways so long as you don't focus on that one thing as the focus of your existence, as the sole reason for being, you're alright. The presence of widespread equality would make personality and looks more important than they already are, economic status being abolished means you can't just be mediocre bore to impress femoids. However you should still want the other things socialism theoretically provide, your lack of those other traits in an honest appraisal of your own qualities not withstanding.
>>986579 What the fuck
>>986594 Ofc I'm not saying you should get a gold digging bimbo and only rely on money to get a girl. But like come on a nerdy guy basically gets no girls all through his teenage years but it finally pays off in the end when he's pulling a high salary as an engineer or something. He should have a personality and be a good guy too but you know having a good economic situation can get you a girl out of your league. With socialism wouldn't girls just pick chad who might be broke under capitalism? I mean broke chads still get girls but they'd get even more.
>>985864 you're a lost cause if you think appealing to wikipedia is helping your case, especially on dense philosophical theories. it's not only that he never used the "word", it was fundamentally different from the Fichtean conception of dialectics In fact, Hegel himself mocks the view that wikipedia is attributing to him in the Phenomenology >Of course, the triadic form must not be regarded as scientific when it is reduced to a lifeless schema, a mere shadow, and when scientific organization is degraded into a table of terms. Kant rediscovered this triadic form by instinct, but in his work it was still lifeless and uncomprehended; since then it has, however, been raised to its absolute significance, and with it the true form in its true content has been presented, so that the Notion of Science has emerged. This formalism, of which we have already spoken generally and whose style we wish here to describe in more detail, imagines that it has comprehended and expressed the nature and life of a form when it is endowed it with some determination of the schema as a predicate.
According to Twitter libs sex work will still exist under socialism even though there is zero reason for it to. Maybe they can be given a hero of socialist labour award for blowing ugly guys
>>986599 Short answer: Of course that answer doesn't exist. Dressing like you work at Best Buy is as far from punk as you can get. Long answer: Outside of obvious grifters saying shit like that to boost their "brand", that sentiment when it's genuine is a response to decades of hollow, universal liberal domination over media (which is the only sort of "culture" most people experience). Even /pol/yups aren't "that" fucking stupid, they understand on some level that there's a hollowness to woke liberalism that actively suffocates class from culture. If you're a white dude, how are you supposed to connect to the plight of a trans woman if there's so many voices saying that "you're actually evil just because of who you are, and they're morally superior to you in ways I won't fully describe because of their identity"? Especially when you're as alienated (and probably fucking broke) as you are under this stage of capitalism, you're going to rebel against that. Hell, there are still retards on this board who chimp out and post 5 page essays on how HRT turns you into a rape ogre or some shit. Of course you'd want to rebel. However, only alternative presented by this media is the boy scout, the cop fucker, the supposed demonized straight white man, because even acknowledging a left alternative would suggest critical flaws in the liberal worldview. "These people are loathed by people in power, and they think you deserve a seat at the table too, and they're even pointing out all the shit you're thinking!" When it's genuine, it's an acknowledgement on how fucking awful idpol shit can be, but stepping in the wrong direction because of either class interests, or more commonly, the lack of a proper alternative.
How will socialism abolish the sexual market
>>986772 "Sex work" Onlyfans type labor aristocrats will be shot and their homes given to child prostitutes.
(190.51 KB 730x411 Berlin-Wall.jpg)
>tfw you sell your entire country just for bananas and jeans Why do these people suck so much?
(74.22 KB 1300x1083 16560892-green-glow-background.jpg)
>>988736 They couldn't compare objectively future trajectories, socialism was failing and they wanted the promise of capitalism without understanding its implications. The grass is always greener on the other side after all.
Is the supply and demand chart good for anything? Is it at least true that prices tend to be low when demand is slow, and that prices also tend to be low when supply is high?
>>989488 Are you the same anon from earlier in this thread? The logic of supply and demand is "generally" true, in that most people know that prices tend to be high when demand is higher. This isn't really useful from a Marxist perspective for analysing anything. From a bourgoise perspective, university-level models approximating supply and demand charts are generally way more complicated than your average high-school one, so I'm not sure that it's comparable. In general, the chart itself is a shitty model and an extrapolation of a generally but benignly true underlying logic. Here's Marx from 1865, in Value, Price and Profit: >But to consider matters more broadly: You would be altogether mistaken in fancying that the value of labour or any other commodity whatever is ultimately fixed by supply and demand. Supply and demand regulate nothing but the temporary fluctuations of market prices. They will explain to you why the market price of a commodity rises above or sinks below its value, but they can never account for the value itself. Suppose supply and demand to equilibrate, or, as the economists call it, to cover each other. Why, the very moment these opposite forces become equal they paralyze each other, and cease to work in the one or other direction. At the moment when supply and demand equilibrate each other, and therefore cease to act, the market price of a commodity coincides with its real value, with the standard price round which its market prices oscillate. In inquiring into the nature of that VALUE, we have therefore nothing at all to do with the temporary effects on market prices of supply and demand. The same holds true of wages and of the prices of all other commodities.
>>989717 Are university-level models any more accurate than high-school ones?
What are your thoughts on the newspaper THE INTERCEPT? What is their political tendency?
(77.86 KB 1089x484 her_majesty's_DickSmash.jpg)
Should I do as Cockshott says and join the Reserve Army of my country (Australia) just to get proper weapons training or is that unnecessary LARPing? Of course in the Australian Minecraft server ASIO
>>990538 I've seen this take elsewhere on leftypol. As a fellow Australian, I think joining our armed forces would be more unbearable than joining the UK's. Aren't you locked in for a certain amount of time once you join? Or is that once you enter full service?
>>990538 cockblast is just a wild card did not expect him to say that. man up and polish those boots, son.
>>990553 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGy_3_L_iHU apparently there's no minimum period of service and you can leave any time you like. I don't know the details though
>>983378 monopoly rents unequal exchange possibly also to a much lesser extent the difficulty of measuring the indirect labour input of a product
>>986772 demand for services is always going to exist, and that's a reason for sex work to exist. if the economic planning authority pays all wages in labor certificates, they can ban sex work ofc. but that would fit poorly with a system where independent creative, care and service work is paid. >>987565 can't be answered without a working definition of the sexual market. if all you take it to mean is that people look for partners freely and in competition with each other, that won't be abolished under socialism. it'll just mellow out enough to be tolerable. >>987579 believing there are whores out there who have it too good and being murderously mad about it is the sort of thing people who understand it's kinda gauche to openly hate women should really know better than to admit to.
>>986747 >get you a girl out of your league "out of your league" implies you're holding some kind of power over her and she'd never choose you if she could choose freely. so, yes, under socialism no one will get someone "out of their league", and that is good. people will only be with people they want to be with. there is no reason why anyone should get specifically an attractive partner, you either accept a human being who wants to be with you and love them back, or you're by yourself. nerds will no longer exist under socialism btw, it's a specific form of alienation that relies on "meritocratic" hierarchy. people lose their ability to relate to other people when they're raised to believe they're better than those other people. men won't have this problem in relation to women anymore, either.
>>990538 I had this same train of thought when I was younger, but being stuck for 2 years in a place full of fascists might have driven me insane.
>>990854 Plus you might end up in a war and ironically die fighting for capitalism.
(94.65 KB 992x560 1602556305821.jpg)
is there any validity to the claims of "international bankers" vastly helping the Bolsheviks pic related. also is there a counter infographic that shows international bankers that funded the nazis. yes I know how dishonest these pol graphs can be I just need some context here.
>>991204 No that was the Mensheviks he helped not the Bolsheviks who overthrew them Talking of which Trotsky was a Menshevik when he was flown over if I'm getting the timelines correct here
>>991233 ok can you get me info that shows all the help nazis got from "international bankers" jews that were connected would be nice as well.
Can we trust the puritans to give up their pointless crusade when we finally gain a foothold, or will they betray us for our "degeneracy"?
>>991391 fuck the infographics and read a book, jesus christ.
>>991443 Some degrees of idealism is tolerable but extremists should always be rooted out i reckon
>>991443 I'm going to take away your porn and you can do nothing about it.
>>991514 From my cold, oddly soft hands.
>>991521 Thay is perfectly acceptable
(9.29 KB 508x508 1601337255375.jpg)
Both of you cunts shut the fuck up and stop shitting up the thread
What is a good alternative to Reddit and/or Facebook for social media and generally talking about things that are unrelated to politics.
>>991656 None. Absolutely none. All social media is poison. Any community worth a shit has almost no fucking userbase. This is by design, as porky doesn't want you communicating anything useful.
What's the socialist answer to 13/50?
(93.41 KB 680x660 5d9.jpg)
Why is this board so hostile to everyone but Tankies?
>>991929 I'm serious.
>>991960 It's the glowies trying to scare people away from tendencies that might actually have a chance of abolishing capitalism.
>>991971 So am I
(28.97 KB 726x541 Smug Anime Girl.jpg)
>>991974 Can't have capitalism if we just kill all the capitalists.
>>991960 Nobody was hostile to the ancoms that were here before the wave of annoying redditors.
>>991979 when the Tank suspensions is build from Stalinium ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣀⡀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡠⣶⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⣵⣢⣤⣤⣴⣶⣿⣷⣶⣾⣿⣶⣤⡀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⢤⣶⣽⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣶⣤⡀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⢴⣮⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣵⣢⣀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣤⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣷⣦ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣟⣛⣻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣟⣛⣻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣯⡆ ⠀⠀⠀⢀⢾⣿⣿⣿⢿⡻⠟⠛⠛⠋⠉⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠉⠉⠛⠛⠻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡀ ⠀⣀⣤⣿⢿⡿⠝⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠙⠻⢟⣿⣿⣤⣀ ⠀⠈⠉⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠉⠉⠁
>>991932 Well, if a normie asks you about it is this what you would say?
(83.01 KB 900x894 21a.jpg)
>>992136 It was a meme response to this meme. What I posted was the socialist response to 13/50.
>>992144 So was it a socialist or a meme answer?
>>991204 >>991391 Main supporters of nazis weren't international bankers but national industrialists. Check the nuremberg trials, Flick case, Krupp case, Farben case, most of them got a slap on the wrist (for sponsoring state terror and using slave labor to make big bucks, usual capitalist things) and they kept working as usual after the war.
In "Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right" what did Marx mean by "state formalism" constitutes itself as an actual power and become its own material contents? The way I'm currently reading it Marx is contradicting his earlier arguments against Hegel taking some essence, or property of that essence and then objectifying it. I'm just reading this as part of a reader and so the text is truncated and parts are omitted, is this part of a dialectic which hasn't been sublated by this part of text, and the remainder of which is excluded, or am I misunderstanding?
>>991915 40% of cops
(1.42 MB 1147x3429 jewish bolsheviks (2).jpg)
Does anybody remember the thread on /leftypol/ a couple months back that talked about different definitions/theories of fascism? I'm trying to remember a definition that summarised fascism as a "revolution against the left", specifically. If anybody remembers that thread/has an archive of it, or any recommendations for reading on a preferably leftist theory of fascism, I would be eternally grateful.
(256.14 KB 1338x765 Screenshot 2020-10-13 224816.jpg)
>>995963 this?
>>996009 Not exactly, but that's useful. Thank you very much. I think the one I'm looking for possibly started off a long blog post that offered an "alternative" definition of fascism, in opposition to a vulgar "fascism is a desperate bourgeois attempt at saving capitalism etc etc" definition.
What are the end goals of Hamas?
Does capitasm push it's values and ideologies oportunisticly or is it planed? Is pushing privatization and ideologies that support it "spontanuos thing" that happens in current system?
Do you know what makes me question my belief in marxism? The constant fratricides in the history of communism. Trotsky vs Stalin, the Sino-Sovjet split, the sino-vietnamese war... Why should I support any contemporary socialist country, when there is a real possibility, that they will kill each other? If tomorrow China will invade the DPRK or vietnam, on which side should communists stand? Why should I defend China from western smear campaigns? We all know, this shouldn't happen! We shouldn't kill our own brothers! Is there something deeply wrong with marxism? Please help me.
>>1000624 Capitalists are way way worse, they don't just have infighting and political murder conspiracies, among each other. They sometimes involve huge armies and flatten entire countries over disagreements. We should seek improving our way of conflict resolution, to avoid the Ice-pick stories, but generally we are the civilized bunch compared to capitalist barbarism.
>>1000660 Off course, I don't want to defend capitalists. But the mere possibility of communist fratricide makes me sick. This simply shouldn't be possible and it can't be excused!
This might sound a bit dumb, but what exactly does the US gain with its presence in Europe? We don’t really have that many natural resources and the US doesn’t seem to be a particularly export-oriented country. Is it purely to keep the Russians at bay?
(10.67 KB 255x197 download (2).jpg)
(2.39 KB 275x183 download.png)
How do they plan on achieving this when syria can't even take care of an armed rebel force?
>>1000672 For examples. A big military Air base in Germany Ramstein was used a lot for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Logistics and drone warfare mostly. Nuclear silos on land, still exist all over Europe. I do not know if these still have a purpose, tho.
(108.43 KB 909x1280 BALISTA GIRL.jpg)
"The decrease in interest rate is a symptom of the annulment of capital only inasmuch as it is a symptom of the growing domination of capital in the process of perfecting itself - of the estrangement which is growing and therefore hastening it's annulment." - Marx What did he mean by this?
How di embed a video?
>>1001600 How do i embed a video?
>>1001601 Just link any youtube video, the embed is automatic
>>1001610 But the [embed thing doesn't appear to me?
>>1001619 Just post the link like so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67HfnfLYr7U If there is no `[embed]` thing then you may have to enable Javascript
What is a good, general measure (if there is such a thing) of a country's overall well-being? HDI? GDP (PPP)? Net material product?
Will cars exist under socialism? Well well they exist under their current form? I was thinking to day how no one has really analyzed cars or traffic through a Marxist lense. There is class struggle happening on the streets. Bicycles are like the proles, the lowest on the food chain expected to get out of the way of every other vehicle and not occupy the space for "real" vehicles. They don't impact reality more then the physical space they occupy which is almost the same as 1 person. Motorbikes are the petit-bougie they have engine privilege over bicycles and impact reality more by polluting. But they don't pollute much and their existence in our space again only takes to about the same space as 1 person. Maybe 1.5 Cars are straight bougie. They pollute a ton and occupy the space of several people. They are the top of the food chain when it comes to vehicles. Every car driver expects the bicycle and motorbike to get out of their way because they are a car and are "better". I live in a country where small motorbikes and scooters are the most popular form of transport and on a thin road 1 car with 1 person in it can block the road for 20 to 30 people behind them on motorbikes that could easily navigate the road if it wasn't for the car in the way. And I'm left thinking, who agreed to this? Why don't we question how this works? The car driver spent more money so they are allowed to impact reality more?
>>1004828 Cars really have one purpose, really, and it's not to be mass transport.
>>1004850 its more to get transport now since mass transport is either shit or nonexistent in burgerstan (europe seems to be doing better but never left burgerstan so no clue)
>>1004850 You mean as a way of projecting your status and penis size?
>>1004907 Check the flag
any reason immigrant groups who aren't muslims like christians or budhists won't be radicalized the same way muslim immigrant groups are?
Why do tankies claim to be leftists when they can easily beat a facism bingo: "The Cult of Tradition", characterized by cultural syncretism, even at the risk of internal contradiction. When all truth has already been revealed by Tradition, no new learning can occur, only further interpretation and refinement. "The Rejection of modernism", which views the rationalistic development of Western culture since the Enlightenment as a descent into depravity. Eco distinguishes this from a rejection of superficial technological advancement, as many fascist regimes cite their industrial potency as proof of the vitality of their system. "The Cult of Action for Action's Sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science. "Disagreement Is Treason" – Fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith. "Fear of Difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants. "Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups. "Obsession with a Plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat. This often combines an appeal to xenophobia with a fear of disloyalty and sabotage from marginalized groups living within the society (such as the German elite's 'fear' of the 1930s Jewish populace's businesses and well-doings; see also anti-Semitism). Eco also cites Pat Robertson's book The New World Order as a prominent example of a plot obsession. Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak." On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will. "Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" because "Life is Permanent Warfare" – there must always be an enemy to fight. Both fascist Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini worked first to organize and clean up their respective countries and then build the war machines that they later intended to and did use, despite Germany being under restrictions of the Versailles treaty to not build a military force. This principle leads to a fundamental contradiction within fascism: the incompatibility of ultimate triumph with perpetual war. "Contempt for the Weak", which is uncomfortably married to a chauvinistic popular elitism, in which every member of society is superior to outsiders by virtue of belonging to the in-group. Eco sees in these attitudes the root of a deep tension in the fundamentally hierarchical structure of fascist polities, as they encourage leaders to despise their underlings, up to the ultimate Leader who holds the whole country in contempt for having allowed him to overtake it by force. "Everybody is Educated to Become a Hero", which leads to the embrace of a cult of death. As Eco observes, "[t]he Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death." "Machismo", which sublimates the difficult work of permanent war and heroism into the sexual sphere. Fascists thus hold "both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality." "Selective Populism" – The People, conceived monolithically, have a Common Will, distinct from and superior to the viewpoint of any individual. As no mass of people can ever be truly unanimous, the Leader holds himself out as the interpreter of the popular will (though truly he dictates it). Fascists use this concept to delegitimize democratic institutions they accuse of "no longer represent[ing] the Voice of the People." "Newspeak" – Fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.
>>1005805 So you are a liberal and your goal is to conflating communists with fascists.
>>983378 Why isn't there a high budget anime about the Mexican Revolution yet?
>>991470 nooooooooo you can't want reliable digestible info to use in arguments you must make your opponent read a book for each topic you discuss. because people in reactionary mindsets really will consider reading your marxist book. because why use that verifiable info to change there mind to then maybe get them to read.
>>1006263 Unironcally yes.
Why are so many youtube Dengists explicitly upholding Settlers? What am I missing?
>>1006524 Because third-worldism operates on the premise that American and European proles are living off the labor of the third-world and thus are class enemies--labor aristocrats. So Good Guys = China and Bad Guys = America and Europe. It's complete shit and entirely incompatable with marxist theory, but it's the party line.
What's the Marxist solution to Islamic terrorism?
>>1006825 The CPC despite not being a Marxist party have a good approach imo, it has been working very well for them currently.
>>1006825 Not bombing Muslims and stop fucking over the middle east.
>>1006818 Okay but aren't Gonzaloists also holding this view? Is third worldism something that both Mao and Deng agreed on? If so that's a new detail I didn't know before and can't seem to wrap my head around. And it's still a party line with Xi? How do they rationalize their close economic partnership with the imperial core countries then?
>>1006853 we have parties who want a tenth of what the CPC is doing and I am pretty sure communists has denounced them all as racist bougie fascist
Is Jeff Foxworthy the most class concious comedian?
>>1006860 Is that the only reason they hate us? A French teacher was decapitated yesterday for showing cartoons of Muhammed in class. The killer was from Russia.
>>1006886 Unfortunate, it's something that needs to be combatted by communists. However, are you talking about communist parties in majority muslim countries or in general? Because if they're in non-muslim majority nations then ultimately it doesn't really matter.
>>1007123 EVROPA and I digress. Since the children of Muslim immigrants are more radical in their beliefs than their parents and this will have consequences both in Europe and elsewhere, like the isis warriors traveling from here to Syria, it's not a bad focus to crack down on it
(157.11 KB 1653x648 anarcho_tyranny.png)
Dog whistles aside, I feel like this concept can be transformed into an effective piece of leftist propaganda. e.g. >we refuse to control the real tyrant (global capitalist) so we control the innocent. lörs opinion?
What do you guys think about transhumanists? Discussion of gender and sexuality is notably absent on this board relative to the the subreddit most similar to this board, which is refreshing, but I'm still curious what the consensus on that particular topic is here, if there even is one. I get that transgender issues are basically irrelevant compared to almost anything else but I still find the topic interesting. I'm still confused about the gender/sex distinction which makes me de facto "transphobic" but I feel bad for trans people and don't hate them.
>>1008706 lmao nice word filter Testing: transhumanist transhumanist
>>1008706 Transgender people are real, but most self-proclaimed transhumanists are merely transtrenders. Some are just confused teenagers while others are highly narcissistic adults.
(150.10 KB 509x267 marxlaws.png)
So reading about Marx and come across this passage that says Marx didn't believe that capitalism is the result of individual greeds but social systems. can someone elaborate this for me? Surely the social systems are made up of individuals?
>>1008726 I don't disagree, but what would it even mean for trans people to not "be real"? No one disputes the fact that some people say their gender assigned at birth clashes with their internal sense of gender, or, put another way ,they feel they were "born in the wrong body." That's the definition of transgender as I understand it. I still wonder if trans women are *really* women or the equivalent for trans men. That's a philosophical question that I don't see a good answer to.
>>1008779 Transgеnderism is just old capitalist gender roles with a new liberal twist. Putting so much emphasis on the cultural views that resulted from the sexual division of labor is reactionary and quite foolish, if not delusional. It's the role of capitalism and other previous orders of private property to exaggerate the differences among people in order to specialize them into separate roles. Realistically, many of the apparent differences between men and women are just cultural and not actually inherent to a person's innermost nature. Some things like "pink is for girls blue is for boys" are flat-out made up in like the past century by the advertising industry, so anyone thinking they have a real affinity towards any of those colors is seriously wrong. It's not hard to see that pretty much all trаnsgenders are in fact alienated at their core, not "in the wrong body" or whatever.
>>1008738 >see the individual as a product of society Does that not explain it? We don't think that just one day some guy decided to be greedy, accumulate wealth and build a factory.
>>1008738 The explanation sounds very suspicious. It sounds like a typical charicature of Marx. I wouldn't take it seriously if only because it presents alleged opinions of Marx without context, which is crucial when it comes to marxism. Society isn't a group of individuals but individuals which exist in relation to each other, which in turn society emerges from this, and then individuals relate to this society rather than between individuals. So, at its core, only individuals exist, but they create an entity with which they relate. As for capitalist greed, that can only exist in a capitalist system (by semantics alone). To make more specific, the nature and mechanics of "capitalist greed" is different than that of a voracious child, it can only exist in a society which allows for capitalist enterprise. And to understand it as "greed" isn't accurate since corporations don't work on the principle of greed, they work on the principle of growth and profit. It doesn't matter what the individual capitalist wants or doesn't want, as long as his business optimizes growth and profit, it will prevail. I hope I gave you a better idea. Sorry for phone posting. >>1008706 There are no genes which code for "wears dresses and makeup", they are cultural things which make up "gender expression". It seems that, for whatever reason, the mind has a thing which gives the self a gender identity. Most people just assume their gender identity that goes with their sex, but some people feel the need to assume another gender identity, sometimes sporadically, sometimes permanently, sometimes a simultaneous mix of both gender identity signifiers. Basically no one knows why this is, why this happens, etc. It seems there is a cultural aspect as well as a biological aspect. What we do know is it exists, that people feel a very strong desire to express themselves as they wish to express themselves. Trans people are not under the illusion that they are the opposite sex, they are very acutely aware that they are not the sex that they wish to express the gender identity of. It's fine to have questions about how this works, but here might not be a good place to ask because of some bad apples. This trans stuff is an attack against our macho male chauvinist programming (which includes the idea that trans women defile femininity). A friend of mine recently removed her testicles. I am incredibly supportive, I have a bunch of trans friends, I am gay so I have some idea of what the experience is like of being an outcast, yet that still made me feel horrified and I felt my masculinity being threatened somehow. It takes a lot of active effort to de-learn these shit thought patterns.
I think I'll make a bigger post about this someday. But is there any middle ground between communism and social democracy. Can social democracy work without caving in too much to capitalism? I don't favor capitalism but I'm not sure it's whole sale abolition is wise. I also don't appreciate the inherit anti-tech bias in communism. What am I supposed to do?
>>1009205 Tl;dr no because capitalism is a profit and growth optimization function. It will eventually bring everything under it's fold, including the government. And sociodemocratic programs conflict with capitalism's imperative of growth and profit, which leads to corruption. >anti-tech bias If you mean anti facebook, anti google, etc, then I can only say bruh. Otherwise, not sure what you're talking about. Socialists have always been looking to technology as an integral part of bettering society. Check out the cockshott thread and learn about cybernetics.
>>1009205 I think it might have been possible for the European social democratic parties to fight back against neoliberalism by fixing bureaucratic structures by appealing to a kind of quasi syndicalist methodology of giving the unions more and more power over their enterprises, and tying them together in an industrial confederation or somesuch. That in addition to very robust capital controls and universalization and simplification of existing welfare measures. But in essence it would basically be reproducing socialism in the end I think.
Is there any modern author who made a blueprint of socialist transformation for a modern western capitalist society?
Meant to post this in the BuddhaCom thread but its probably gone now. How is Soka Gakkai International? They look pretty interesting but their political party in Japan, Komeito, has been a junior partner to Jiminto (LDP) since the 1990s. Are they worth joining? Are their any rightist connections that SGI has in other countries?
(79.87 KB 400x300 ATAMA_GA_PAN.png)
>>1009949 >Soka Gakkai International Whenever I read that name, I can't help but think about the memes about it being a cult.
this might be a really retarded question but will having vacations abroad (for leisure purposes) be the same as the one we have now or will there be more restrictions in communist society?
>>1010423 No you will be toiling in a factory all year
>>1010898 Based
(51.23 KB 550x362 morales-is-wizard.jpg)
So Bloivian election is coming up. What are you guys thinking? do you think the bolivian people will once again reject reaction and /ourguy/ will be able to return to power? Or do you think the americans will have enough tricks to tip the election?
>>1011220 Yes. This is the reason, why counter measures like the massline have been developed.
>>1011220 Even if power didn't corrupt people, people seek stability in their lives, and stability often comes at the price of becoming revisionist, or becoming anti-democratic as you attempt to solidify power. It's never smart to put all your eggs into one basket, which is why dictatorships like those in the USSR have the problem of Yeltsins and Gorbechevs.
(389.52 KB 1693x2551 essentialism.jpg)
How do you guys go about pirating books? I want to pirate "Essentialism" by Greg Mckeown
>>1010423 there's not going to be vacations abroad in the future regardless of mode of production. transportation is too unsustainable, we can't even afford in a couple decades anymore.
>>1012427 >>1012427 Use libgen.lc https://libgen.lc/ads.php?md5=0b1d851b45da82ae3c0a0d57495d0a12 And for scientific articles behind paywall use: https://sci-hub.ren/ Cheers, comrade UwU
>>1009205 there's no anti-tech bias in communism. if anything, communism is inherently far too pro-developing the productive forces.
>>1012427 b-ok.cc and libgen.lc together have almost any book you'd want, often in a number of formats
>>1012491 >>1012500 (me) Whoops, didn't see libgen was already mentioned. Didn't know about sci-hub though, that's neat, thanks for mentioning it
>>1008706 >I get that transgender issues are basically irrelevant compared to almost anything else this isn't at all true. if we were to accept trans people as a society, and especially nonbinary identitities, that would lead to the bottom falling out of gender as a whole, which is a spook and hollow and can't survive unless strictly enforced. that would have huge implications, on par with changing the mode of production.
>>1008997 >Putting so much emphasis on the cultural views that resulted from the sexual division of labor is reactionary and quite foolish, if not delusional. it's not foolish because it's not voluntary, and it's not delusional because the gender is the delusion and trans people are finding their own individual ways to resolve the internal contradictions caused by gender and to liberate themselves from the enforced delusion. they're the pioneers in our social truth-seeking process, the edge cases who make problems for it. >It's not hard to see that pretty much all trаnsgenders are in fact alienated at their core, not "in the wrong body" or whatever. this is the kind of view you land at when your materialism is too limited and you only look at everything through the marxist tradition. the marxist canon doesn't have very much to say about gender, it's very insightful for the time but clearly inadequate as a basis for a discussion on it. to some people that means gender isn't important, and maybe you are one of those people. i think that's a dogmatic and truly retarded way of looking at the world.
What are some Marxist perspectives on the abolition of slavery?
why are some countries that are affected by US imperialism "rich" while other aren't? for instance, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and most African countries are shitholes and affected by US imperialism, but why countries like South Korea, Singapore and most of the Arab Gulf countries which are also affected by US imperialism yet they aren't shitholes, or at the very least better off? Asking more simply: why are countries like Singapore better off than countries like Iraq despite both being under US imperialism?
>>1012489 Trains prove you wrong.
Where do I start with Bookchin?
How do truck drivers and other non-productive elements factor into the LTV? How is their labor worth anything if they don't produce?
>>1015938 Truck drivers are not non-productive. The value of their labor-power is added to that of the commodities that they ship. Getting a commodity to he who will ultimately consume it is a part of the productive process.
>>1016007 How exactly do drivers add value to the product itself? It's the same exact product.
>>1016033 A product in human hands has more use-value than a product in a storage far away. Value is not an inherent measure in the product, but rather describes the relation society has toward the product.
>>1016033 A sandwich in your hand is worth a lot more to you than a sandwich 1000 miles away.
>>983378 Barriers to entry, not having a perfect demand forecast, different organic composition of capital in different industries. >>985898 You only have the price-quantity point. You can draw millions of different pairs of lines meeting there. You cannot investigate the shape of a line by creating other crossing points at different moments in time, because the assumed line under the crossing point is also assumed to move around. (And another thing: As far as rules of thumb are concerned, production cost per unit usually goes down when producing more, not up.) >>1008738 Looks like a fair description, inasmuch as a thing as short as that can be fair to Marx. >>1008997 Yes. There used to be a tradition in Europe of blue symbolizing female and red symbolizing male, and using light blue for little girls and pink for little boys. >>1012520 Changes in who can participate in sports competitions for women or who can use which toilet do not change who can get pregnant and who can't. >>1015938 Marx considered transport to the location of consumption productive labor. See Capital Volume II, chapter 1.
(518.91 KB 762x647 1494536148134.png)
Do North Koreans actually think Kim is a god?
>>1016105 Does supply and demand theory even make predictions on the particular value of a commodity, rather than saying it is affected by supply and demand? It seems SaD and LTV do two different things.
>>1016033 The life cycle of a commodity begins when it is produced by labor and various means of production and ends when it is consumed by a purchaser. Getting the commodity to its consumer is part of the productive process.
>>1016147 You are correct, but S&D is also using misdirection to pretend it answers the question of inherent value (as opposed to contextual cost).
>>1016033 The same way fruit pickers add value to fruit. It's more valuable gathered than on the tree even if it's the same fruit. Commodities aren't just the physical thing but the whole social context that the physical thing exists within as a product on the market.
How will communism work if humanity is getting more stupid? Does iq matter for communism
>>1016202 Humanity is getting more stupid because of capitalist controlled education. Communist education will not have the same issues, and will produce smarter people.
>>1016202 Capitalism makes people stupid so they're easier to control. Communism will reverse this because smart people plan the economy better. There's a lot that's causing the problem and it's all capitalism's fault >education system designed to create obedient workers >media designed to create dopamine addicts with no attention span >poor environmental regulations causing lead and other contaminants to affect health and intellect
>>1009096 It is an accurate claim. The fourth quarter of Capital Volumn 1 deals with the rise of capitalism, and it explains how capitalism took hold when simple manufacturing (typically master craftsmen and maybe an apprentice using hand tools to produce socially useful items) becames so suddenly flushed with resources that industrial-scale production (machines moving large tools and operated by mostly aprentices) was made profitable for the first time and thus began the concentratiin of capital. So, yes, capitalism was created by historical circumstance, not merely the greed of the bourgeoisie.
>>1016229 Iq is hereditary, education doesn't make you smart, outside of little flynn effect
>>1016202 IQ is a bullshit scale that measures nothing. What you are seeing is the elimination of higher education as jobs become progressively more simplified and thus require less knowledge to perform. Jobs get less intellectually challenging --> education becomes less important to the job market --> less money gets invested into education --> people are less efucated than.they were before
>>1016221 No doubt, but how?
>>1016261 Iq is a simple test that says a lot. There have never been more people that have spent more time in education
What does thesis-antithesis-synthesis refer to? It's not actually Hegelian dialectics, is it?
If taxes under Biden go to 60% is USA 60% communist? Will future politicians want more money in taxes? Is this good?
Why does humanity only create value in marxist economics? I'm having trouble understanding why machines wouldn't be able to create value once they have been created, and then impart that value into new machines and eventually create a system where the human (or at least the proletariat) is no longer necessary once technology has progressed to a certain point.
>>1016341 No It's Fischte Hegel's is all about negation
>>1018976 Because in the final determination the only thing money can ever buy is human activity
>>1018976 Machines can create use value, they can't create exchange value since their "labor" is free.
>>1018976 Well it's an analysis of capitalism, a system with a sophisticated enough network of machinery that self reproduce wouldn't be capitalism in Marxist terms anymore, although it might have a market and money. In any case there's also the fact that in empircal work done on the LTV value in terms of labor-time better correlates with long-run equilibrium prices than value in the most reasonable alternative, energy consumption. Marx assumes away the possibility of energy as a source of value because the physiocratic explanation of the source of value was also assumed away even prior to him, and he's chiefly concerned with how capitalism relates to humanity, not to some abstraction of energy consumed or something. At least that's my very shallow thinking on the subject.
>>1018993 >Robot makes car >I sell the car for money and receive an exchange value ???
>>1019169 Someone else sells it cheaper because it's now cheaper to produce The rate of profit falls
>>1019169 First you had to pay for the robot. Also, you are not the only person with that kind of robot. Your competitors will lower their prices to gain market share, which will, in turn, force you to do the same. This will keep happening until you will all barely be able to sell the cars that your robots make for the costs of what you pay for resources and the upkeep on your robots. The equilibrium price for an item made without human labor is zero.
>>1019181 (me) >The equilibrium price for an item made without human labor is zero. Or rather the equilibrium price for an item made without human labor is the price of the constant capital that went into making it.
>>1019181 I would have to pay for the robot as I would have to for human wages, but robot labor on its part becomes cheaper over time. And what about if my company grows so big that it essentially becomes a monopoly, with the competition being gone then? I could set the rate of profit to whatever I'd like then. This is the trend of capitalism, for enterprises to become fewer and bigger and for the ones remaining to begin making trusts.
Did marx have a foreskin? I a
>>1019218 >I would have to pay for the robot as I would have to for human wages Both are capital investments, but each functions differently in economic terms. >but robot labor on its part becomes cheaper over time. On the contrary, the cost of maintainance tends to increase over the life of a given machine. Also, robots have a limited productive life. They degrade over time and require replacement. >And what about if my company grows so big that it essentially becomes a monopoly, with the competition being gone then? Then you no longer have capitalism, just a state-supported institution that operates by fiat. Of course, monopoly is what capitalist competition in a given industry ultimately resolves itself into without intervention by outside capitalist parties, usually by means of state power, as you mention later. >I could set the rate of profit to whatever I'd like then. Only until it impacts the profits of other, more powerful, bourgeois factions, which driving up the cost of the means of subsistence absolutely does. At that point, they get together and bust your trust. While capitalists may want monopolies for themselves, they abhor them when other capitalists (particularly those who produce the means of subsistence) have them. That is a huge reason why the United States keeps fucking with nations with nationalized oil production.
Why is this place getting more heavily moderated recently, anons? It is starting to bother me..
Veganism, based or cringe?
>>1020191 Based
>>1020191 Based. Veganism would significantly cut down on deforestation and transport, since less food has to be raised to feed livestock, thus helping out in dealing with climate change. It's also ethical in regards to treatment of animals, which is nice.
Why can't capitalism eventually just ignore economic value entirely and just report profitability on whim alone?
>>1020345 It already does that.
>1020345 Because that would involve first stopping the flow of capital, which is catastrophic. Then it would require that automation be done away with thus forcing the newly emergent bourgeoisie to hire people in place of the machines that replaced them in the first place. Of course, that is not possible. It would also take the wealth from those who have accumulated it and disperse it among the masses, which no bourgeois plutocrat is keen to do.
I can't post on 4chan even though I'm not banned. What does this mean? All I do is lurk /trash/.
>>1020345 Because it can never escape the fact that value is always derived from labor. That’s why even at massive gains, companies are still facing increasingly lowering rate of profits.
>>1021622 Stop posting on 4chan, you Stockholm Syndrome'd shit eater, and that won't be a problem.
>>1021622 What's happening exactly?
>>1020345 look at the s&p 500 were already there >>1021712 the bourgeoisie's goal is to reduce labor hours as much as possible and still retain profits - accelerating capitalism ends in communism more or less
>>1021725 I don't know, I make a post in a thread with a pic but the site acts like I never even pushed the reply button and I don't need retards like >>1021715 stating the obvious that has already been said a thousand times.
(34.42 KB 480x360 baba.jpg)
>>983378 I was listening to the 'The Histocrat' podcast on Baba Yage in mythology, and they casually mentioned that the Soviet Union has some interested interpretations of the character but they were pressed for time so they skipped the specific Russian regime political opinions on Baba Yaga. Google has been basically entirely unhelpful in figuring out what the heck they were alluding to. The language barrier is fucking me I think.
Long shot but bunkermeme capital group, I'd like to get past Chapter 6 one of these days and it'd be nice to have someone to discuss it with.
What are the positions of American socialist movements on automation and cybernetics?
>Making healthcare or food a human right doesn't render it immune to scarcity What's the argument for this? All I can think of is that production, at least in the modern century, is more than able to meet the demands, and that any scarcity of these two would pretty much be artificial.
>>1026771 If farmers don't eat, how can they farm? It's a chicken or the egg argument, but the fact is machines don't run without electricity. Scarcity can only be eliminated through work. Work can only be done with fuel.
>>1022037 Start a thread on >>>/edu/ It'll be a slow thread but worthwhile
(45.69 KB 176x286 polpotgun.png)
Explain accumulated labour to me I'm retarded
(27.89 KB 480x360 hqdefault (4).jpg)
Anyone have a epub for pic related
>>1015987 Of course, but I was (and still am) curious as to why slavery was abolished as an industry - was it for economic or moral reasons?
New fag ,who the fuck is vaush and why do people keep mentioning him here?
>>1026958 he a radlib cuck
>>1026960 he's*
Any anti-Rhodesia facts?
>>1026958 He's the biggest and most influential American socialist intellectual of the 21th century
>>1026848 economic reasons. cheaper to buy labor as is required/profitable than to 'own' the labor power, even when not profitable.
>>1026821 Any at least somewhat durable thing that was made with human labor can be conceived of as having accumulated labor "inside". (I put that in quotes because that viewpoint gets weird when a big innovation dramatically lowers the labor time necessary for making that thing. It's the current conditions of production which count.) Means of production can be conceived of like that, giving their own accumulted labor time to the things made with them until they break down.
>>1027976 >(I put that in quotes because that viewpoint gets weird when a big innovation dramatically lowers the labor time necessary for making that thing. It's the current conditions of production which count.) What gets weird? The exchange value of the commodity type shifts as the new method of production becomes the industry standard. It makes perfect sense to me anyway.
>>1028078 The claim isn't that the situation is weird, but using a formulation like accumulated labor or congealed labor in that situation.
Could rich people feasibly donate a small portion of their wealth, say 10%, and this not cause major economic damage? Would there be any problems with supply chains or something?
>>1028916 Dang ol' rate of profit man.
Glowie question: Is there a way to see how many regular users we have?
>>1028983 literally the front page of the site has current stats at the bottom https://bunkerchan.xyz/ > [ Total posts: 1213219 / Posts in last hour: 184 / Unique recent IPs: 760 / Total boards: 19 / Media files stored: 26046 / Total media size: 24.00 GB ]
>>1029009 Where are the hidden boards?
>>1029009 lol well fuck me, thanks brother.
Is there some site that lists all the active communist parties of the world and some basic overview of their positions etc.? I've come to realize that the development of some parties into a general/broad anti-revisionism (not specifically Maoist or Hoxhaist) is the best (imo) and I would like to know more about those specific types of parties internationally. Anyone able to help?
>>1028916 They could, and it wouldn't. In America they already do. >>1028935 Doesn't affect the ROP as it's not a tax. It's basically consumption for the capitalist, it's what they do with their profits after hoarding them.
What's with the whole "nixbol" meme? I've also seen some lefties unironically say nixon was based
>>1029769 Nixon was a pol potist and watergate was meant to stop him from supporting cambodia and killing american urbanites
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XjXsvz0yMI What are some possible inaccuracies here? Is it true collectivization went over poorly in the GDR, and that the USSR treated East Germany worse than the West treated West Germany?
why is it so common for people on the "left" to focus on acts of colonialism and slave trade in the past over other forms of looting and murder? even in countries that acquired a massive wealth from sacking other European countries and had a relatively periphery part in the slave trade you will see the "left" hyper focus on the latter over the former
(23.63 KB 901x195 Screenshot.jpg)
(99.85 KB 604x604 1tp5z2.jpg)
Why is the LTV true in practice? Let's say that it takes $100 of labor to produce a watch, why should the watch be priced at ~$100? What if the manufacturer sells it at $500 because that's what people would be willing to buy it for?
Do holocaust deniers actually believe every jewish survivor has been instructed to lie about the holocaust or something
>>1031353 LTV is a natural law of how societies function. Every society has only a limited amount of labor it can allocate in the economy. Money is used to direct labor, in market economies. And on average prices have to fluctuate around the socially necessary labor time. Prices of individual goods can diverge from that average, as a fluctuation, but that is about it. These prices that diverge from socially necessary labor timer represent inefficiency in markets that can never find the precise price for a commodity and only land somewhere in the vicinity. Money can only buy labor power, so all the money that is spend on commodities has to be used to pay for labor to produce them.
>>1029852 >Occupied <No mention of NATO >Menace of communism >Soviet puppet state <No mention of NATO >Shitty sponsor And that's just 2 mins in
>>1031426 How are prices that deviate from the SNLT necessarily inefficient? If someone sells a watch at 400% markup then they are just maximizing profit by selling at what they can, rather than what it cost.
>>1031426 This is literally so wrong but the worst is > money can only buy labour power as if Constant Capital isn't a thing Marx talks about not too mention actual commodities purchasable with currency.
>>1031461 It's a temporary deviation though because of a multitude of factors 1) production has ceased 2) there is a huge gulf in wealth between the societies that made the roduct and where its sold 3) there is a general crisis of overproduction What that poster meant (I presume) is that SNLT is a rough average of what the entire productive base is able to produce of x commodity in x hours. Deviations from this happen from location to location but the market necessitates that they exchange at equal value (your boss cant charge more because his workers are shit or only work 4 hours if the commodity is more easily produced elsewhere)
>>1031481 A good example of this is what happened to farmers in the Great Depression, food became extremely easy to produce causing a flattening of wages the SNLT of agricultural products plummeted because of advances in technology ultimately dooming the farmers
Is Parenti right about the JFK assassination? Is all this stuff actually true? I never knew any of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHYs-8yM70U&app=desktop
>>1031461 >How are prices that deviate from the SNLT necessarily inefficient? If someone sells a watch at 400% markup then they are just maximizing profit by selling at what they can, rather than what it cost. If the price is above the SNLT, the economic accounting diverts more resources and labor than it takes to make the product, that is inefficiency.
>>1031478 >This is literally so wrong but the worst is > money can only buy labour power as if Constant Capital isn't a thing Marx talks about not too mention actual commodities purchasable with currency. Sure but constant capital requires labor power to build and reproduce it. If you expand you view to include more than one moment in time, you see that it is labor and mater all the way down, and money only commands labor.
>>1031503 no labor power is literally defined as variable capital you can't mix it up with Labor in the general sense. And it still doesn't make sense because money is a commodity involved in the exchange with other commodities therefore removed from the 'labor value' and reflecting its current price. This is all weirdly reductionist.
>>1031530 money can buy labor power (a commodity) but it can also buy any other commodity. The pedant point that its all human labor is irrelevant.
>>1031530 >This is all weirdly reductionist. It is a simplification to highlight one specific aspect. Please avoid appeal to reductionism in a fallacious way, it does not have mean bad. >>1031536 >The pedant point that its all human labor is irrelevant. Capitalists think profit comes from capital, this is of course wrong, and pointing out that capital is made by labor helps fixing that error.
>>1031577 I did not mix up variable capital and constant capital, the point was to explain that money can only command labor power in a simplified way. Libertarians think about capital like a transcendental essence and ignore that workers build all the capital and continuously reproduce it.
>>1031628 Do libertarians really ignore labor cost?
>>1031692 Libertarians think that there are only buyers and sellers, nothing more. You also have some remaining brain bugs, labor is not really a cost.
>>1031711 Doesn't labor cost resources to reproduce? Of course in any system employing people costs stuff, right?
>>1031735 >Doesn't labor cost resources to reproduce? You need to have a universe with matter inside, but thats free >Of course in any system employing people costs stuff, right? No workers are the source of surplus, cost implies using up surplus. The profits of capitalists are a cost, the hyper luxury of the wealthy is a cost, the wars capitalists fight are a cost.
Why is it a problem for capitalism to have greater ratios of capital to labor?
>>1031861 >Why is it a problem for capitalism to have greater ratios of capital to labor? They can not exploit capital goods for profit only labor. If the labor shrinks in proportion to machines then profit decline. Capitalists can try to exploit people harder, to make up for it. That drains the life out of people, and causes demographic decline which also makes profits go down.
https://youtu.be/XJeobqc4mFk So Soviet Bros that post the 1990s to now pics what is to be made of this?
>>1032241 Stalin died in 1953 how did he cause the sea to dry up over half a century after his death ? The Soviet Union ended 30 years ago surely capitalism must have fixed it by now, right ?, oh they continued to making it worse, how about that. You know people in the sixties were naive and didn't know about the consequences. Cant say that anymore, so what is the excuse now ? Capitalism fucked over the post soviet countries and they cannot afford re routing rivers, bummer, maybe they should have kept the socialist system long enough to fix this.
>>1032241 That's Khrushchevite revisionism for ya
Is there a credible written debunking of Fukuyamaism?
>>1032366 He renounced it himself >>1032241 >1960 it's fine Meaning it was probably even better in 1953.
How do I cope with a squandered youth?
>>1033579 >How do I cope with a squandered youth? Squander the rest of your life.
Light shill for the capital reading group, I created a Matrix room to join and we tentatively have a group of 3-5 people. Please join. >>>/edu/5139
>>1033655 When do you start?
>>1033684 we're still getting a group together but I'd like to start later this week and get through Chapter 1 by next weekend, but definitely want to start by next week.
the left values test just called me an eco marxist that sounds like a meme it also call me an orthdox marxis and leftcoom
how do I become smarter than the wh*te man alternatively how do I stop being so fucking stupid
>>1033707 >alternatively how do I stop being so fucking stupid Read son read https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm This one's always a good starter book
>>1026821 by accumulated labour we mean the accumulated *products* of labour, and the products of such labour must be commodities, but for sake of simplicity we refer to it as accumulated labour. Capital is accumulated labour, it is a sum of commodities, but not every sum of commodities, not all accumulated labour is capital. In order for a sum of commodities to become capital it has to exchange itself with labour-power, i.e. it has to exploit workers "It is only the dominion of past, accumulated, materialized labour over immediate living labour that stamps the accumulated labour with the character of capital." For more info read Chapter 4: The Nature and Growth of Capital of Wage Labour and Capital: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/ch05.htm
(66.98 KB 750x992 polpog.jpg)
>>1033752 >>1027976 Cheers. I read the chapter but needed clarity on somethings hence the question.
What do maoists and hoxhaists mean when they say the USSR became social imperialist? Can I get some good sources or videos on this please?
>>1018983 Is the thesis-antithesis-synthesis model overrated/wrong as a basic explanation of Marxist dialectics?
>>1034103 Yes you should read Hoxha's books
I feel like I just gained an integrated understanding of what dialectics (in the context of dialectical materialism) really is. I now think that it's just the concept of systems theory or systems thinking expressed in 18th terms. Am I wrong and why?
>>1035091 Definitely the first. Not so much wrong as unhelpful and irrelevant. It simplifies so far that it leaves out the actual point.
How do you guys feel about Thomas sowell and his critique of Marx?
>>1036019 >How do you guys feel about Thomas sowell I don't know about him personally, but the amount of lolberts who recommend his books have made me cringe at that name >his critique of Marx? What is it?
what is/are the marxist stance/s on free will? it seems that a materialist outlook would suggest that determinism is true.
>>1036019 It was a character assassination instead of refuting his points for the most part. Very very lacking and disappointing. It's not that long, it's the final chapters on his book about marxism.
Is it odd that I have these reoccurring dreams of me and my childhood crush just doing every day things together. It's been the better part of a decade I'm in my 20's and last I saw her it was 8th grade. I went to a very small school from 6th to 8th with only 20 kids in each grade. Meaning the same 20 kids I was with every year 6-8 I became really close with them. In 9th I had to transfer to a big city high school I never properly transitioned socially, as my home life with my impoverished hoarding mom got worse and worse imagine literally getting raised in shit and junk up to you head, I have no Idea why child protective services didn't take me point is my dreams are more and more becoming a portal to this better time I really miss. I barely have dreams outside this setting and it really feels like a strong subconscious push for some sorta return. What's up with all this what should I make of it?
What is the rightoid cope or """arguments""" against historical and dialectical materialism? Are they even aware of it?
>>1037075 You created a fantasy to cope with your present. There are no "good old times" there is only now. >>1037078 Usually misunderstanding histmat as being deterministic and teleological. And diamat as being "unverifiable".
>>1037075 Hit up your old crush and other friends Either you will be disillusioned of your nostalgia or you will attain a lot of happiness I would push for confrontation, since unless you are in a very fragile state where no longer having these sweet dreams would cause a breakdown you have nothing to lose but your idealism and you could potentially gain to live in your dreams irl. I would personally take that gamble since I've been feeling stable for a while now.
Isn't the "General Intellect" just automation? Why do people act like it is some groundbreaking concept?
>>1036807 You're confused about what materialism means, an extremely common mistake shockingly common even on this board. To idealists and liberals materialism a stance on the existence of God and the soul etc, but that whole thing has basically nothing to do with Marx. That is ontological materialism, and it's completely different from marxist/historical materialism, which just means that the superstructure is a literal distraction used by the bourgeois to hide class conflict and to really understand anything you have to look at the base.
>>1037174 No, it's not, it's a much more general and abstract concept dealing with the social nature and impact of technology, kinda as if he anticipated the bourgeois concept of "knowledge economy". I haven't seen anyone act as if it was groundbreaking, but if people do it might be because in the 19th century, it was.
>>1037115 It is a cope for the good old times remember I don't go to my dreams wanted this to happen through lucid dreaming. >>1037127 Bro this has been happening for like 2 plus years. I hit her up year or so ago we were best friends and neighbors from 4th to 8th she wouldn't even reply. We did everything together we'd watch movies we'd bike together we'd go sledding so much she's very pretty and wanted by many but she could and all I wanted in the end is be my friend. It hurt and I wanted to be petty but I didn't. I also in contact with a few of the boys I knew one I actively see every year but even then it's hard because there so far away. I don't know what to do I know 100% there a cope but there still happening.
>>1037318 I go in at 7 for work and wrote this in the parking lot right before I went in if it's a little confusing it was rushed that's why.
>>1037235 what is idealism in marx's system?
Does anyone got links to the soviet archives that show the numbers on gulags?
is there genuinely more sexual abuse in hollywood than other industries/organizations?
CASTRO WAS HELPED BY THE USIN OVERTHROWING BATISTA?? DID CASTRO PLAY 4D CHESS AGAINST THE USA? https://youtu.be/gcqTJlnYtb4 I know this videos about Che and Castro supposed ""butting heads"" idgaf about that but like in the beginning Castro is seen saying that we are not communists, or marxists leninists pre-revolution but after getting power he is seen saying that we are infact ML. So what happened that inspired Castro to become communist? The video tries to say that he just wanted power and was a chameleon and changed views but I find that hard to believe since he could have held onto power by never opposing the US and nationalizing. My question is what radicalized castro and made him start taking steps towards socialism? Was it Che?
>>1039393 no, but check the article based on the arhives Victims of the Soviet Penal System in the Pre-war Years: A First Approach on the Basis of Archival Evidence J. ARCH GETTY, GABOR T. RITTERSPORN, and VIKTOR N. ZEMSKOV
>>1035148 systems and logic


no cookies?