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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

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/QTDDTOT/ - Questions that don't deserve their own thread Anonymous 09/27/2020 (Sun) 09:32:14 No. 906273
Previous thread: >>829118 <im an incel >how will socialism help me get laid? By lowering inequality, giving you leisure time, cheap or free gyms to get /fit/ and more opportunities to socialize in wholesome activities w/ women son
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How can I become a NEET? I don't want to work anymore.
>>906279 He who does not work neither shall he eat.
>>906279 Thesis: Apply at your Mom's house Antithesis: Quit your job Synthesis: Become a Neet
What would Stalin's Indian name be?
>>906302 Man of Steel
>>906273 It seems that people have a lot of varied different reasons to be a socalist from the theory nerd to the tree huggers that say socalism is love Can someome please tell me what was Marx's reason for why we should do socalism and his central critique of capitalism, with reference please
>>906302 He who kills porky
>>906302 Chief Read's a lot
>>906309 Man of Stalinium
>>906273 Are there any good unions in the US for scientists? I should be getting my masters' in structural geology soon >>906281 That's after all's said and done. Neetdom is praxis when every job really is just slaving away for billionaires and investors.
>>906302 Blazing Steel
>>906281 fuck off christcuck
>>906363 It's a quote from Lenin, retard.
>>906363 The bible is good 20% of the time though
>>906364 Look it up in the Bible
>>906392 The shit about self sacrifice and kindness is cool, it's just the ancient Jewish morals that don't apply anymore I don't like, nor the God business.
>>906326 Give a read to socialism scientific and utopian by Engels it's a quick and easy read and he expalis everything very well: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm Marx/Engels vision is that socialism is the next stage of human development, and capitalism is holding us back. There are a series of contradictions inside the system that capitalism cannot resolve and the only way to surpass them is with socialism and eventually communism.
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>>906405 > self sacrifice < cool
What makes all you people making 'expert' analyses and predictions on various happenings and the future any correct? Why should I believe in all this?
>>906469 Does anyone here make expert predictions?
>>906469 Everyone here has a degree in Marxism and wears a white lab coat at all times.
i know this is a bad attitude to have, but do you guys ever wish stupid and obnoxious people could somehow be banned from being communists?
>>906490 No, because I couldn't be one.
>>906490 Stupid and obnoxious people make great cannon fodder.
>>906281 NEETdom just applies to capitalist countries. If you can, isn't it better to not work for Porky?
>>906499 Some people want to live a life, anon.
>>906326 >Can someome please tell me what was Marx's reason for why we should do socalism Like the other Anon said, the next stage of human development. >and his central critique of capitalism, with reference please Inherent contradictions within capitalism lead to crises, the biggest contradiction of them all will lead to socialism, that is the contradiction between classes.
>>906500 Like I said, if you can. Not all people can be NEETs.
Hey commies, why do yoy think “Economical slavery” or whatever word marx had for it exists? in spite of your insistence that it does, IT DOESNT. Every worker in America has the capability to quit his job and find another one (or freelance, or start his own business) if he doesn’t like his current lot.
>>906509 >Every worker in America has the capability to quit his job and find another one Well this is wrong as no, not all do. Also, you said in America. Please tell me how the children working in Vietnam and the Congo are voluntarily working?
>>906518 >hi kid want a job >yes >ok *shakes hands* >angry commie screeching in background
>>906509 You are not free to open a business without cash unless it is illegal I am pretty sure. >“Economical slavery” or whatever word marx On the contrary Marx rightly says proletarians are "doubly free" Doppelt freie Lohnarbeiter. Meditate on that. >906524 Die, scum.
>>906518 >Well this is wrong as no, not all do Well this is wrong as yes, they all do
>>906531 >Die, scum. you're authoritarian, here eat a bullet
>906524 >Unironically being in favour of child labour. I hope you develop tuberculosis so you know how it feels.
>>906524 >>906532 >>906534 Try harder to bait next time please.
>>906509 As long as private property exists there is no freedom. Can't even live with the jungle niggas without being bothered anymore smh...
>>906537 why shouldn't kids be entitled to their FREEDOM to work? state mandated education is just tyranny. kids hate school, hear it from them. stop treading on liberty of children!
Honestly can't wait for some carnage in America
>>906547 The true enlightenment is when you fuck school and work
>>906547 Freedom to work or... die. Yes, much freedom. GOD I LOVE FREEDOM :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
>>906326 Maybe check this video out, or perhaps the rest of the channel's vids. https://youtu.be/9jAeu60yx4s
>>906547 why shouldn't proletariat have the FREEDOM to seize the means of production? state mandated capitalism is just tyranny. proles hate capitalism, hear it from them. stop treading on the liberty of the proletariat!
>>906485 read the situs
>>906500 Wasting at least 8 hours a day is not "living"
Hey commies, why are you against child prostitution? it's voluntary.
The Union is impeding on the freedom of the negroes. They take away their God given right to work on my plantation voluntarily.
>>906564 this, but there should be a minimum age of consent. just kidding, I'm no commie/nazi/statist/fascist/socialist/liberal/democrat/republican/retard
>>906566 This but unironically
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>>906572 what is hockaism even supposed to be lmao? commie but with uighur characteristics?
>>906564 Don't you have a femboy orgy to attend, siegefag?
>>906574 Marxist Leninist with Bunker anti revisionist characteristics
>>906574 >hockaism found the burger
>>906575 fuck you pedophobe
>>906580 thats a long way of saying "starving"
>>906585 Albania before socialism was a feudal shithole During socialism was more the most powerful country in the Balkans After socialism it is a corrupt shithole
>>906588 >fooood >pleeeeeaaasseee >foooooooood shut up cashlet, rent is due
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>>fooood >>pleeeeeaaasseee >>foooooooood >shut up cashlet, rent is due
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>>906590 What was that, landlord? Bullet time? Ok!
>>906599 you violated my NAP first tho
>>906302 Father of Nations
>>906600 Tell it to the tenants union bucko
>>906646 tell it to the NIGHT WATCHMAN STATE
Remake this pathetic thread
What writings of Marx have you actually read?
>>906726 Wage labor and capital, the Communist manifesto, Capital volume 1, 2 and 3, critique of the Gotha program. Next on my reading list is the 18th brumaire and the German ideology.
>>906733 Nice. German ideology is a must. Also after that try 1844 manuscripts and Grundrisse, latter shouldn’t be difficult if you read Capital already. I started Capital just yesterday.
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Alright, my birthday's coming up and I'm thinking of taking a serious dive into Marxist theory. What books do I ask for having read nothing except peripheral theory (Society Of Spec., Reflections on Violence, Communist Hypothesis, etc.).
>>906726 The Communist Manifesto and German Ideology. I have yet to read Das Kapital until I gain a better understanding of capitalist economics.
>>906760 Read State and Revolution by Lenin, and THEN start reading Marx.
>>906760 Das Kapital
>>906764 Anon he won't understand the book, especially as a beginner.
>>906763 I feel like most of the meta commentary Lenin does would fly over your head if you start with State and revolution.
>>906774 Yes he will I have faith in him
>>906760 I would go like this: Socialism utopian and scientific - > wage labor and capital - > State and revolution - > Imperialism the highest stage of capitalism - > Capital volume 1 and 2
>>906726 Manifesto, Gotha, Brumaire, Civil War in France, Wage Labour and Capital, Value Price and Profit and the first chapter of of German Ideology. I can't read big books.
>>906760 I recommend you pick up a Marx-Engels reader and just read the whole book. Read Early Marx first, his break from Hegelian idealism is important and lays a philosophical foundation for his later works
>>906783 This is a good list actually.
>>906783 Don't read Lenin until after Marx
>>906793 Just don't start with the communist manifesto like I did
>>906803 The Communist manifesto is fine
>>906809 It's outdated, it isn't massively useful in our modern climate.
>>906774 Capital is easy to understand, wdym? He'll keep reading it anyway, it's not like you just read it once and then put it away forever.
>>906816 It's like 50 pages
>>906817 Takes about a year to read the whole thing so yeah. It's effectively the communist's bible.
>>906818 That doesn't make it not outdated.
>>906816 It’s worth reading just for “Working men of all nations unite”
>>906823 I feel it's worth a read just for the historical importance of the text considering that it's a 2 hours read
>>906825 This. It might not be the greatest introduction to communism and capitalism, but it's certainly a comfy read.
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>>906761 >>906763 >>906764 >>906785 >>906786 >>906793 >>906779 <3 Thanks for the recommendations, honestly if it wasn't for this website, I'll probably be somewhere else asking what to read in preparation for Infinite Jest (Perhaps I will get around to it after). Cheers tovarisches
>>906816 The programme itself is outdated but it's only a small part of the manifesto, the rest of it is still immensely important.
>>906841 I don't see them recommended here(maybe they were)but Civil War in France, 1844 Manuscripts, Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State and Critique of Gotha Programme are good reads too.
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i have a question regarding the base-superstructure relationship: If the superstructure(i.e. politics) can only maintain the base(i.e. the economy) then how is economic change even possible?, because according to the base-superstructure theory, only the base can affect, shape and change the superstructure, and the superstructure can only maintain the base and changing shaping it to adapt itself to the conditions it is in, but not change it in a fundamental way. however, we all know economic change is indeed possible as shown by the french revolution which abolished feudalism and the Russian revolution which abolished capitalism. so the problem is in my understanding. i want someone to correct me.
Someone asked this in /hobby/ but the thread literally went to shit with the second reply, so hopefully this doesn't happen again here, but how do dialectics explain evolution?
>>907633 >shown by the french revolution which abolished feudalism and the Russian revolution which abolished capitalism. so the problem is in my understanding. i want someone to correct me. I don't see what you're confused about? These did change the base, they were class revolutions.
What's with western leftists obsession with critiquing the cis straight nuclear family? Aren't good socialist cis straight nuclear families the future of socialism since only they can give birth to more socialists? I've seen a lot of western leftists claim that the nuclear family and marriage is itself capitalist and should be destroyed. It not being needed in a communist state where everyone is so prosperous they just freely fuck anyone and no one gives a shit about close relationships. Kids will be raised communealy. Really seems like an idiotic take since nuclear family and marraiage pre-date capitalism. I've had my view on this called "euro-centric" even though pretty much every country on earth practices marriages with nuclear families. I'm thinking this is all just baizuo shit cause AES like China place promote the straight cis nuclear family a lot.
>>908883 Not about polygamy v monogamy. Communal child rearing should make it easier to raise kids. Industrializing the household was another name for it, household chores would get economy of scale efficiency boost, by organizing it communally.
>>908883 ideologies are not inherited you stupid piece of shit
>>909238 I mean in the socialist future when everyone is a socialist we need to create more socialists. And only cis straight families can do that.
>>908883 >Culture war stuff Yawn >Muh cis straight nuclear families There is nothing special about them being cis, straight, or nuclear. >Nuclear families predate capitalism Not in their current form and not as ubiquitous
How were DDR-Poland relations shortly after both republics were established? Did they have any trouble with their past, and if so, what did they do to remedy that?
>>908883 >I've seen a lot of western leftists claim that the nuclear family and marriage is itself capitalist and should be destroyed. In some sense true, although not as true as it used to be. My view is just, if people want their nuclear family, let them. Government shouldn't be involved in that.
>>908883 >nuclear family predates capitalism It doesn't really. People have a really weird idea of what "nuclear family" means, it's not just a fancy term for "normal family". Nuclear family is parents and children only. It is opposed to extended family, where parents, children, grandparents and siblings etc lived together in the same house or at least forming a cohesive, close-knit unit. Nuclear family only really started becoming a thing during industrial capitalism when working class people started moving into urban apartments. That said, "abolish family", "normalize heckin polycules" and such crap coming from Western ultralefts is definitely >all just baizuo shit based on strenuous misinterpretation of Marx's criticism of bourgeois family under capitalism. People tend towards monogamy and strong monogamy will be the norm under socialism (though child-rearing will likely be more communal). Engels made a good case for this.
>>910325 I don't see why strong monogamy would be the norm under socialism. Most people will drift towards monogamy because there will definitely be alternative family structures forming. Not disagreeing with anything else in your post.
What exactly is "value" in the LTV? An expression of the demand for a product?
>>910774 socially-necessary labor time. a socio-historically contingent measure. I don’t believe ‘demand’ as a subjective thing factors in much to our analyses, as it can be resolved as the movments of use value and exchange value.
How would've Cuba been ran differently if Che was the leader instead of Fidel?
>>910797 Isn't SNLT predicated upon demand, e.g. the "socially-necessary" part? If something has more demand by people, then it has more social necessity, thus more value, assuming the time to make it is the same. Let's assume it takes 1 hour to make 1 kg of bread, and 1 hour to make 1 kg of anchovies. If people want bread a lot more than anchovies, then the value of bread is greater, correct? Since demand for it is higher, despite it costing as much to make as anchovies.
How do you guys go to sleep? I can’t lay off my phone
>>910866 I put some crap on youtube and fall asleep to it
>>910866 Do some breathing exercises, like the Wim Hof method. Also exercise during the day and just get busy at that time so you'll be tired in time for bed. There's an LP page that has some stuff on sleep and more that you might find useful: https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Health
Was feudalism more productive than Roman slave economy? Was the development of feudalism a regression stemming from the collapse of Roman empire/economy, or was the collapse of Roman empire the result of the development of feudalism?
>>909249 I am gonna link something and I hope you are sitting down for this one as it may blow your mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_insemination
>>906726 All of them
>>910825 The LTV examines what happens when supply and demand meet. No Marxist denies supply and demand. The question marginalists cannot adequately answer is where value comes from in this equilibrium. Their responses always use circular logic. Marx avoids this.
>>910325 >Muh baizuo Stop using these stupid terms righttard Chinese invented, just say liberal.
>>911027 Ancaps think it’s a micro theory but it has to do with the economy as a whole. Easy way to understand it is Total values = Total prices. Some products are priced above their value to produce superprofits and some below. Since value can only be made in production these differences balance each other out. That’s how I understood it, let me know if it’s wrong.
>>911037 >Some products are priced above their value to produce superprofits and some below. Since value can only be made in production these differences balance each other out. Yes. This means that this mechanism cannot cause profits. If one capitalist is selling low, the other is buying at a good rate. If one capitalist is selling high, the other capitalist is buying at a bad rate. These price-to-value distortions cannot explain profits. Instead, we find the general source of profits in the extraction of the wage laborer's surplus value.
>>908883 >I've had my view on this called "euro-centric" even though pretty much every country on earth practices marriages with nuclear families. <Muh baizuo Dawg. You LARP with Chinese terms and yet completely ignore that many Chinese family households are multi-generational, not muh nuclear?
>>911043 Can you explain why the rate of profit tends to equalise in all sectors of the economy though? I never really understood it.
So far I’ve read: >Manifesto >Wage labour and Capital >Value Price and Profit >Capital Volume 1 >German Ideology >Socialism: Utopian and Scientific >State and Revolution Currently reading: >Society of the Spectacle >Anti-Duhring >Minima Moralia What should I read next? I’m trying to get into the Frankfurt School right now. I’ve also read some Freud but I don’t know if getting into Lacan and reading Ecrits is worth it.
>>911096 Imperialism the highest stage of capitalism is a must imo
>>911096 Read Capital Volumes 2&3. 2 is kinda boring but if you pay attention you can learn a lot, and 3 is essential.
Why does capitalism not have any real counter revolutionary threats?
>>911363 It did in the start, aristocrats who wanted feudalism and their control back.
>>906564 shit tier bait tbh
During the 2016 US election, was the consensus on this board to voot for Hillary or to not participate
>>911096 For some insights into planning. Towards A New Socialism by Paul Cockshott. For some history about the fall of the soviet bloc: Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti Furthermore: Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism by Vladimir Lenin
>>911393 Toss-up between "Acceleration because Trump would fuck the USA up" and "not voot/voot third party"
>>911363 what the other anon said. to add, most nobility etc. came over to liberalism immediately when the libs did their turncoat move, stopped talking about liberty, equality and fraternity, and changed tack to engineering parliamentary systems that would ensure wealth and privilege is maintained indefinitely.
>>911393 Vote for the greens or PSL
>>911396 Acceleration is a tempting choice , but there should be a working alternative system available that can be deployed in a day or two for when the system you are accelerating collapses. It makes no sense to have a revolution if you have no system that can be used to immediately replace the system you just smashed. You want to make your life better, not worse. and creating a power vacuum is not something you want to do, because something far worse than what you smashed may rise up to take its place , you might destroy a capitalist government and discover that a overtly "mask off" fascist group steps up and becomes the new government. What you want is to have your own socialist group poised and ready to leap into action to form a government the instant the capitalist government you are accelerating finally collapses. This will avoid creating a power vacuum and ensure your life gets better rather than worse.
>>908608 >I don't see what you're confused about? These did change the base, they were class revolutions. Yes but how did these changes came about in the first place? there must've been a rise of communist ideology and politics to give rise to the Russian revolution for example. This means that superstructure changed fundamentally before the base, in other words: Communism became the main political and social force first THEN the Russian revolution happened that changed the economic system and not the other way around.
>>912030 Just to be more clear here what am i asking is this: can the superstructure change fundamentally before the base? if so then doesn't that violate the fact that the superstructure is supposed to maintain the base and not change it?
I fucking hate mls and they seem to be everywhere how do I cope (please do not say become one because I'm not a faggot)
>>912075 become a faggot THEN become an ML
>>912030 >>912059 In France's case, the bourgeoise are a class under feudalism, just as in Russia's case, the proletariat are a class under capitalism. Then once the contradictions of their respective mode of productions led to revolution, the superstructure ie; religion, culture, became dominated by the new ruling class. The superstructure is that of the mode of production, and both these classes exist under the mode of production, and thus their ideas exist. Yes, the ruling class clearly does influence this more, as they are the dominant force, but not all ideas are of the ruling class.
>>912075 Why do you hate them, anon?
>>912075 What's wrong with ML, Porky?
>>912077 Tbh I actually am a fag I just can't ever see myself becomming an ml because of how wrong they are
>>912075 >hate why? if you can't give a reason then it's just subconscious hate in which case you need to get over it >everywhere perhaps this is a hint that they have some powerful ideas(regardless of whether you agree with them or not) which are worth considering, otherwise they wouldn't be everywhere if the ideology wasn't powerful enough to affect this number of people. >cope why cope when you can EMBRACE
>>912093 >>912104 I see it as little more than social democracy with a vanguard party, state capitalism/keeps classes etc Don't get me wrong I think a lot of mls have done a lot of good and I think the soviet union falling was bad, but most modern mls seems to have retarded great man theory views and I feel the entire ideology is completly pointless in the 20th centuary, mls also tend to be dogshit posters but thats more of a funny meme reason lol
>>912143 Idk twitter agorithem really throws them in my face which I fucking hate >>912149 Other reasons I just remembered is stalin is a dogshit theorist and I hate how they use POC supporting them as if that makes them correct and call anyone who disagrees with them a "white leftist"
>>912149 Well, two things: 1. Maybe look at Lenin more closely. I would arguee that subsequent leaders strayed from his path either by necessity (Stalin) or by ignorance (afterwards) 2. I would recommend Paul Cockshott's Towards A New Socialism, alternatively a few essays in his compilation "Arguments for Socialism" which critiques ML states honesty while not ignoring their strengths. If you can't find it I can look it up for you.
>>912149 >I see it as little more than social democracy with a vanguard party, state capitalism/keeps classes etc READ A FUCKING BOOK. Even the most insane Trotskyists don't claim "muh red bureaucracy" was a class >I feel the entire ideology is completly pointless in the 20th centuary, Definitely not. Vanguard is needed now just as much as it was then.
>>912167 The Twitter tankies are an insufferable bunch, please ignore them. Another great resource is Micharl Parenti. Perhaps by listening to him you will gain more appreciation for the feats of ML states. They were flawed, but an honest attempt at surpassing capitalism and something future movements must learn from.
>>912178 I'll give Lenin a go I guess I have a copy of state and revolution might as well read it Is cockshot really an ML? I have heard people claim otherwise, I guess he is a more modern approach which is an answer to what I clamined >>912185 Saying read a book isn't an argument retard It's such a vague nothing statement I assume it's projection >>912188 >They were flawed, but an honest attempt at surpassing capitalism and something future movements must learn from. I agree with this of course, I actually really admire castro. But like I said I just can't get on board with a lot of things about it which is frustrating as they seem to dominate the far left and I don't get on with anarchists I have mixed feelings on parenti but I'll give him a shot Thanks for reccomending things unlike that hoxha larper lol
>>912167 >twitter real life MLs are nothing like twitter MLs, just stop using twitter. >stalin is a dogshit theorist I'm going to assume the you only read quotes of Stalin on twitter, in which case go actually read him, he literally made the definition of a nation in Marxism and The National Question which is a real theoretical contribution, what's real funny is the people on Wikipedia losing their shit when they realize the definition of a nation comes from Stalin, just go and see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nation#Joseph_Stalin_as_the_main_authority_on_nations?
>>912256 >"nooooonbad man can't make defintion!" What babies
>>912235 >I'll give Lenin a go I guess I have a copy of state and revolution might as well read it He is a great writer, concise and snarky. >Is cockshot really an ML? I have heard people claim otherwise, I guess he is a more modern approach which is an answer to what I clamined Well, he doesn't use any names. His ideology is a refreshing mixture of Marxism-Leninism, DeLeonism, syndicalism, radical democracy...it's a fusion of different ideas. I think this is the smartest approach for the 21st century. We don't need to abide to theoretical splits from decades ago. >But like I said I just can't get on board with a lot of things about it which is frustrating as they seem to dominate the far left and I don't get on with anarchists I can understand your frustration. Just remember that many of the people you are arguing with online are teenagers lol >I have mixed feelings on parenti but I'll give him a shot He is controversial for his takes on Yugoslavia, but once again: Take what is useful for you and discard the rest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHyDUQAHCJw
>>912414 >it's a fusion of different ideas. That sounds really good damn
>>912554 Give it a shot. Arguments for Socialism, by Paul Cockshott: http://eprints.gla.ac.uk/58987/1/58987.pdf Page 70 onwards is relevant for your post here: >>912075 - the essay is titled: "Six theses on the problems of the communist movement"
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>>912167 >stalin >dogshit theorist >poster is a faggot I wonder who could be behind this post
Did infantry defeat knights with sharp pointy sticks and caltrops in history or is this just a meme?
>>912649 Pikes and caltrops are useful against horses which knights rode on so yes its true
What is marginal utility theory, and why is it wrong?
This confuse me but idk where to ask. Why do dumb bergers always assume if someone who is a leftoid has been to university they must have done 'liberal arts' (what does this even mean outside of art? humanities?) as there degree or whatever. most of these people i think have been to stud. How have these people never met any economics students, philosophy students, engineering or sociology students, etc, etc? Is this something they really believe or is it just something they say to make the person they are against seem less credible and easy to dismiss?
>>912256 >what's real funny is the people on Wikipedia losing their shit when they realize the definition of a nation comes from Stalin weird bias justification against wikipedia there. The crazies like this always come out of the woodwork to post on wikipedia, they are rarely if ever actual editors.
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>>912649 >Did infantry defeat knights with sharp pointy sticks and caltrops Charge a horse into picrel I fucking dare you.
>>913587 Why do they hold the giant spears with only one hand?
>>913620 To prepare to draw swords if necessary.
>>913704 Thanks, anon!
Is there any psychological evidence behind Marx's idea of Alienation?
What is behind the rightoid obsession with skull masks? Did it originate from somewhere or is it just some meme?
>>913543 Not real "analysis", but my anecdotal experience tells me it's just straight up propaganda/lies to discredit people striving for a better society. Obviously anybody who wants nationalized healthcare/higher miniumum wages/taxes not going to bombing brown children or someone pining to overthrow capitalism only desires those things because they majored in a "useless" degree like philosophy and have to work at Starbucks on top of being saddled with debt. You have to understand that a not insignificant amount of Bürgher uighurs suffer from a kind of psychosis (largely due to being indoctrinated with the myth of the American Dream since childhood) where the world is inherently meritocratic, and that everything is always within your control. This leads to them deriding anyone who doesn't make the right choices. If you are poor, maybe you should have saved more money. If you can't find a job, then you should have picked a better degree, or gone to trade school. In my experience most of the people who say this and believe it either went to college when it could still be paid for working summers at Woolsworth or are uneducated blue collar types. The other kind is usually people who seem to understand they're being ridiculous (mostly because they're rich and can afford to laugh at you) and just want to make fun of you for not falling in line with the system. Honest to god if you really want to understand anything we Bürghers do just understand that even some young people still seem to think it's 1950 and that you can be rich so long as you "work for it". Anyone who didn't achieve the American Dream is just a dirty freeloader, because the system is infallible. Why do you think lazy and commie are always paired together? Our national landscape is one of deep workaholism, and our rather casual approach to social relations does a lot to obscure this from most people. As a side note, the US is so right wing that some people's brains are fucking fried and they genuinely think leftism = when you don't immediately murder minorities in the street and they kinda seem to have this weird delusion that in any humanities degree they brainwash you into loving minorities and egalitarianism. Of course, since STEM is inherently right wing due to the emphasis on logic and reason it is literally impossible for anyone who studies those things to fall for an irrational con job like Marxism
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How true is it that these were pieces of crap and to get your chance to buy one you pretty much had to suck your line manager off because each factory only had a certain allocation of cars
In a fully socialist economy, where the pay is calculated by raw labour time, how do we reward labour that carries hightened risk or is more taxing on the mind and body? Shouldn't a nurse at paletative care earn more than a store clerk? They both might contribute equally in labour time, but surely the nurse is making a bigger sacrifice in terms of mental and emotional well being.
>>914704 I don't know if I have an answer for this. But they would be rewarded differently. What rewards can get you is also a different question. I really liked reading Michael Albert's Participatory Economics - I think this is not necessarily a Libertarian Socialist mode.
>>914704 Both jobs would be performed by robots and those workers would be enjoying their free time
>>914776 Palliative care from a robot? Might as well just admit that they're not worth bothering with anymore.
>>914704 More taxxing work can only be done for a shorter period. So their day would end earlier and they would get their national daily wage in whatever productivity category they fall into.
>>914791 Eat the ice cream
>>914776 Imagine being so removed from human reality so you think that palliative care can be done by robots.
What do people here make of Orwell's interpretation of the war? His theory goes that the MLs shot themselves and the war effort in the foot by siding with the liberals instead of committing to full social revolution like what POUM and CNT were doing. He thinks if all the communists overthrew the Republican liberals, that they could've inspired a rural insurgency behind Franco's lines and eventually won.
>>914798 I feel this isnt clear, let's say I work as a nurse. I go in from 9-4, but because of the nature of my work I need an hour a day to recover. I get reimbursed for a 9-5 day, and am more productive the next day since I emotionally/physically healed. Obviously actual numbers would be different depending on the job and society. No one need make any personal sacrifice since this labour is rewarded.
>>914704 >In a fully socialist economy, where the pay is calculated by raw labour time Let me stop you there. While the value added to a given commodity by a worker is measured in labor-power, which somewhat translates into a measurement of time, wages are paid based on the value of the means of subsistence--those things which are required to reproduce a given kind of labor in a given place. The means of subsistence for a nurse are far greater than those of a typical clerk owing to the fact that more advanced education is required to produce a nurse than is required to produce all but the most specialized clerks. Of course, it must be pointed out that we are talking about a capitalist system in this case. It may be one of the transitional phases that leninists like to imagine that they have created, but it is still definitively capitalism. An actual socialist economy would not have wages at all. Goods would be distributed from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs, and once all needs have been met luxuries are allotted to those whose performance was extraordinary. Historical examples of such a "gift economy" are found among complex hunter-gatherer societies.
>>912735 It says that value is created by stuff being marginally more useful to one person than another and so you sell it at a gain. Production is factored in where the cost of production is lower than the gains made by selling the product to someone who values it more than you. It's basically LTV except it ignores the need for labor in production and treats the production process like a magic spell only porky can cast.
>>914851 But isn't socialism traditionally understood as the transition between capitalism and communism? I know that Marx prefered to talk of lower stage Communism, as opposed to socialism, but do you think there's a difference between these terms? If what you describe is socialism, then what would communism be?
>>915118 >But isn't socialism traditionally understood as the transition between capitalism and communism? That is the way that leninists use the word "socialism," yes. Nearly every faction has its own snowflake definition. Marx used the terms "socialism" and "communism" interchangably. I prefer that way, because otherwise "socialism" is either jargon or an ill-defined term.
I'm a brainlet who let himself be convinced into adopting the right's worldview. I used to visit /pol/and /r9k/ a lot, and then I started listening to Peterson and, I'm very ashamed to admit this, took him seriously. I used to read some literature, but my reading habit was rather inconsistent, so I never really delved politics or philosophy. I am now trying to do so, and I understand, intellectually speaking, that I was wrong. That I'm a sucker. However, that is not why I'm here. I'm here to ask: how to I get rid of invasive thoughts? Whenever I see a piece of media my inmediate thoughts go to rightwind/neoliberal talk points and arguments. Is there a way I can really get it out of my system?
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>>914917 Treating use-value as if it were quantifiable is one of the most plainly stupid aspects of the subjective theory of value. As if prices were not set before seller and buyer ever meet!
>>915176 Yes. 1. Read Marx, and really read him too, understand him. 2. Write a list of all the "talking points" you default to. 3. Spend time to critique every single one of them from a Marxist lens and don't stop until you've absolutely eradicated your reactionary thoughts. 4. Never stop doing this. It's what I do and it works great.
>>915176 Re-education camp unironically
>>915176 Don't worry about that. Just read, and engage with the reading. You have already observed reality, so find new frameworks with which to approach it. That is how people always learn to think. Be prepared to go through a lot of different phases as you discover new theories.
>>915176 Think of it like rightoid thought is abusive and bullying you into compliance. Think of the intrusive thoughts like PTSD flashbacks or something and understand that you get them because of some really stupid manipulative shit you went through. The fact that the ideology has to operate by berating people (or getting them to berate themselves) is necessary for it to function because it can't win an actual argument for lack of having substance. If you learn why these intrusive thoughts are wrong, over time they should diminish or even go away.
>>915153 I am a die-hard marxist, but I would warn against treating Marx like gospel, especially any of his works that were published before Capital Vol. 1. Like the rest of us, he went though phases and replaced some ideas with others. Also, his works are incomplete. They do not cover a lot of the ways in which capitalism has adapted itself. A reader has to figure that stuff out on his own and carefully vet any new frameworks that he comes across to avoid getting pulled down derpy rabbit holes like critical theory. I highly recommend branching into anthropology and archaeology.
>>906499 Working is based, even if you're a wage-slave. I'd rather work today and build skills for tomorrow (and maybe afford the token luxuries which porky allows me) so that when the time comes, my radicalized comrade workers and I can take over the factory and CHAZ it up.
>>915268 why do you people always talk of CHAZ when it is literally worst example of an autonomous space i can think of. sometimes i think people who talk about the chaz are a psyop.
>>906560 this is the only reply that makes sense.
>>914075 Thanks anon, that was really informative! Why do you think it is burgers have no sense of class solidarity? I always seen this as normal most places i been and people usually i n rest of world do not believe in meritocrac and i dont think ever have but instead sadly see there place in the world. Do you think it all comes down to the american creation myth of a 'new start' away from the old ways of feudalism and explicitly class delineated society? >>914704 I do not think it is healthy to have a direct, structured not-amoney-honest rewards system in any future society. what is the use? >>914851 >Historical examples of such a "gift economy" are found among complex hunter-gatherer societies. Whilst true also missleading. Gift economies also shows up in agricultural societies and still exists in many aspects of our daily lives in current mainstream society despite the hyper-comodification of everything.
>>915273 They are burger teenagers so CHAZ is literally the only example they know of.
>>915311 Burgers are embarassing. Why do they not read and talk to other radicals? I kind of wondered why everyone pretends the anti-globalisation movement didn't happen and i guess this answer is also the answer to this.
>>906563 work isn't waste - you need to have the work you enjoy, and there's something out there. i like to mow lawns and sheeeit. it soothes my brain. i might be autistic but there's something about taking a raggedy-ass lawn and making it look nice and orderly that clicks in my brain. And I get paid to fucking do it, too. >>915301 I'm not >>914075 but I think we have no sense of class solidarity because of racism, which has inherently divided the working class and given each segment of it an artificial 'enemy' upon whom to blame one's problems. There's probably other reasons, too, but this is a big one, IMO.
>>915315 Their education system is broken, and they are raised on American exceptionalism. It's not entirely their fault that they are extremely ignorant.
>>915273 IDK, I just like to use the term. I think it's funny. The unironic term would be 'make a worker co-op' or some shit like that, I guess.
Any good books to learn about the Israel-Palestine conflict?
>>915388 Id go with something by Norman Finklestein. he really is the best english lang authority on the conflict.
Can someone recommend me a recent politics/economics book that changes your point of view? I got a thrist that I can't satisfy after reading Capital.
>>917082 How the World Works by Paul Cockshott.
"[P]rices of commodities tend to be proportional to the amount of labor expended making them" What about things like ink cartridges that cost way more than it takes to create them? Is the quoted claim actually true?
>>917460 >What about things like ink cartridges that cost way more than it takes to create them? Ok I don't really care enough about ink cartridge prices to check if this is even true, but note the "tend". Just because something is sold above it's cost price doesn't mean the Marxian theory of value is wrong. Like yes, if a capitalist can get more money than he could otherwise, he will.
>>917875 Won't capitalists instead sell things at the maximum price that people will buy it for? Something may cost $5 to make, but the capitalist realizes that people would be willing to pay $40 for that kind of product, while another thing with the same production cost would only be sellable for $10 tops?
>>917460 Read this chapter, or the whole work, or Capital if you want an in-depth answer. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/ch03.htm
What's the difference between nationalizing and socializing property?
>>920988 The first has the state own it, the second has the people own it.
>>921103 But a coop is also owned by the people who work there, but it can't be called socialized property.
>>921180 The dictionary gives this for socialization: >Taking under government control as implementing socialism Nationalization: >The act of taking formerly private assets into public or state ownership So it seems socialization is nationalization where the intent is socialism. Either the state or people can own it, but it must be for socialism.
>>921200 Oh ok I see now, so it's essentially the same but for that particular goal of achieving socialism.
>>920988 >>921103 >>921180 >>921200 >>921202 Socialization =/ "people own it" It means it's held in common, not owned like a co-op.
>>921271 why is that even desirable
>>921271 According to what definition?
>>921271 >It means it's held in common Can you give an example of this? Like how it's different from nationalization.
>>914704 >In a market economy the answer is simple. Pay divers more than the average manual worker. Then you will find people willing to take risks for the extra money. Is this satisfactory? An alternative approach might be to accept that not many people want to risk their lives under the sea, and hold up offshore oil development until automatic machines can be built to do the job. >Divers are an extreme case. The fact remains that some jobs are less pleasant than others. Socialist society has to decide whether this problem is going to be dealt with by improving the conditions and quality of work, or by paying incentives to people who do the nasty jobs. If the whole economy is based upon labour money there are risks to paying incentives. There is a danger that the ‘hour’ would be devalued if people were paid two hours’ tokens for every hour worked. These incentive payments would be at the cost of others who would suffer a fall in their income. To prevent inflation and give the public some control over differentials, these would have to be ‘financed’ out of general taxation.
>>921289 According to Marx? >>921297 Like pre-enclosure acts land in Britain for example
>>921358 Cockshott personality cult is insane, I don't get why you guys suck his dick so much. Is saying "We can use computers to help centrally plan the economy" really some major innovation in theory?
>>921358 It would be so fucking based if labor vouchers looked like this.
>>921377 Where does Marx say this? Across various dictionaries, they instead give a definition akin to >>921200
>>921417 Yes, since basically no socialist economy uses them now but it would be a major benefit.
>>921417 Marx suggest labor vouchers under socialism. Cockshotts work on vouchers is an innovation based on this.
>>906600 tell that to the bullet retard
Did anyone else become a commie because of >tfw no gf ?🙃
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Why do a lot of MLs fall for fascist talking points when they come out of the mouth of an indigenous person?
>>924135 because burgers are low IQ and theorylets.
>>924135 I don't believe that burger MLs would fall for that kind of sakai/idpol. post proof that it happens, if not this is a simple bait Radlibs in the other hand...
Is there a leftcom reading list or guide? I assume I need a background on marxism to begin with right?
>>913990 Besides the whole "omg badass skull so cool!!" thing it probably has to do with the Nazis use of the Totenkopf
>>924135 Genuinely interested on what your alternative answer to the native american question would be. Do you think this problem should be put off on hold until the eventual successful socialist revolution or do you believe that they should assimilate into modern US culture?
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>>924182 Just Marx. Lots of Marx. Start with Capital.
>>924210 Not that guy but an actual native. The assimilation happened two generations ago. Natives now are either indistinguishable from other Americans, LARPers, or a few hundred Navajo. There are no real Injuns between the Northwest Territories and the Yucatan Peninsula.
>>924182 I recommend that you read Hobsbawm's Age of Revolution, Age of Capital and Age of Empire so you get familiarized with the emergence of capitalism and history behind its development. >>924224 this is stupid. Capital is probably too hard to follow if you're not a frequent reader. Reading history is easier in my opinion, and it will give something as a reference to your theory studies.
>>906279 idk why nobody told you this anon but you just have to be mentally ill.
>>924182 >Leftcom >Hasn't read Marx Checks out 2bh
What's the best way to take notes in a history book? I'm a brainlet with diagnosed but untreated, stereotypical OCD so I could really use some help. For the record, I have at my disposal >5 highlighters in pink, orange, yellow, green, and blue >big, unlined sticky notes in blue and pink >those little tab things, not sure what they're called I don't want to turn the thing into a Pollack painting but I'd prefer a system of organizing information over uniform yellow highlights if only I knew how to break it down--and how to discern real substance and guiding points from information that seems enlightening at the time but extraneous in hindsight. It's ridiculous but I've had this book ready to go for 3 days yet I'm paralyzed.
>>924259 Write notes in the margins
>>924255 Anon these thinga take time
>>924259 Ok what I do, yellow notes for general sections, pink for names, and doing a [ with a pen if I don't want to highlight a whole lot, with a lot of notes with the pen too. >>924263 I'm just saying it's kinda weird to call yourself a "leftcom" when you haven't read Marx yet.
>>924182 I'd suggest starting with something contemporary like Social Ecology by Bookchin or elementary like ABC's of Anarchism by Berkman and then work backwards towards Marx. I found it a lot easier to lift "heavy" theory after reading stuff by guys with material conditions closer to my own. From there feel free to join /leftypol/'s orthodox fetishism or branch out to other analysis.
>>924249 >Capital is probably too hard to follow if you're not a frequent reader. It does not use a lot of big words, and every concept that it presents is explained in exacting detail. Capital is a slog, but that is not because it is beyond the abilities of a novice reader. It just requires thought and a lot of repetition. Anyone with the motivation can read it.
>>924267 >Bookchin Fuck off with that self-contradicting hack.
>>924259 Only through experimenting with different methods can you find the perfect way, but I personally write down a few points about what every chapter adopted, and reread my summaries after finishing a new chapter
>>924175 I'm in a few online leftist spaces that are full of ethnonationalist revenge larpers
>>924275 I still think that there is no point in studying Economics and other theory without first studying the history of capitalism/liberalism. Understanding the impact of unfettered industry in Western Europe through the study of History is essential to studying Marx.
>>924311 Nobody will be coming in fully illiterate to history, and Marx does a pretty good job of teaching the history of industrialization/capitalism in Europe, IMO.
>>924210 The same thing China does. Elevate them to the same position economically in whatever way is needed. Make sure they're not discriminated against. Teach them to be good socialist citizens in the socialist Republic of America. Tolerate zero separatist or "blood and soil" bullshit
>>924267 >leftypol/'s orthodox fetishism Cringe
>>924266 >>924282 I added a couple more and am now able to begin. Thanks lads.
>>906273 Famrades I have philosophical question. Is communism or leftism even extremism? I mean when you think about it capitalism itself has been so destructive and harmful to the working class it would seem extremist to not be a communist or opposed to capitalism in someway.
>>924309 They may seem like numbskulls now, but once they start reading they will get gud. They have general anger that will find focus with study. Even Bobby Seale started out as an ethnonationalist. >>924311 Marx actually covers that in the book. The history of capitalism is the third-quarter of Volumn 1.
>>924359 Sounds correct to me
>>924359 That question comes down to what constitutes "extremism."
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>>924259 I usually use just a pencil and I draw a line or bracket around a particular notable section. With the intention that these notes are making your subsequent readings easier by "streamlining" the book, bracket the section, write a few words in a post-it note and stick it along the margins. Then you might go over notes, or re-read sections that you're unsure of. I like to think of it as like drawing a picture; during the first read through you might have roughly sketched the object, outlining the full structure and with a few details here and there. But as you keep reading and re-reading sections then different details would be added to create a fuller, more complete picture. Of course, this is just my own personal perspective so take it as you will.
>>924373 I suppose thats right. But I think my own definition of extremism is more in line with how destructive capitalism is.
>>924388 This sounds perfect, especially the drawing analogy. Will be doing this. Thanks man
Anyone else think when Marx postulated a communist society should arise from an advanced capitalist one he means that communism ain't really possible till we got startrek robots to do all the labour and matter replication to make goods from thin air? We should be searching for commie aliens to help us.
>>924499 I mean like we still need doctors, nurses, street sweepers, garbage men. I don't think we can automate this until a humanoid robot that can accept any task can be developed
>>924478 Read his Fragment on Machines. Marx didn't think such a thing.
Can you be a labour aristocrat and still be a good socialist? Is the only solution to just get a worse paying job or become neet?
>>925317 I know he didn't think that because ofc in his time he could never imagine such a thing as robots and automated manufacturing. But in wondering if advanced capitalist society kinda means that though. Having 100% automation and matter replication ala startrek would render all work, money and economic meaningless. Everything would be worthless because it's essentially free to make and people can just have anything their heart desires created for them in their living room. I don't know if it's possible to have communism before this exists. Like if there's no money how am I buying the shit I want?
>>925342 Oh, by communism you mean full communism, where the principle of to each according to their need and not contribution is in play. I would probably agree, in that full communism requires the development of the productive forces to such an extent that allows a post-scarcity society, which translates to a sufficient amount of automation. > Like if there's no money how am I buying the shit I want? Not sure I grasp the meaning of this part though. Labour vouchers is the Marxist solution there.
I think when detractors of communism say shit like "why would anyone strive for a better job if everyone was compansated the same? Is pretty bullshit. Even if everyone was getting paid the same I'd rather do my job as a teacher than work manual labour. It's easier. How easy the work is would probably be the desirable part of a job over it's salary. People would still strive to study hard for a cushy job.
How would cybernetics augmentation be handled under socialism?
Recommend me a book about satanic conspiracy?
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What would happen if I'm a burger, WWIII breaks out and I evade the draft to make TokTok videos praising Papa Xi instead?
>>924266 I don't call myself that's why I wanna learn lol
"every state has the right to quickly and effectively put down sepratism within the state". Lots of tankies tell me this to justify what USSR did and what China are doing. If that's the case why are they also massively pro IRA and Scottish independence? If states have the right to put down sepratism than what the UK did to Ireland was justified and also anyone calling for Scottish independence should be arrested.
>>929727 No one is ideologically consistent in the face of real world problems, that's why realpolitik is a thing.
>>929727 I have yet to see an ideologically consistent approach to these matters. The real solution is internationalism so that it doesn't matter which ethnic groups have a nation-state to their name.
>>925342 >I know he didn't think that because ofc in his time he could never imagine such a thing as robots and automated manufacturing This is non-sense bro. Marx wrote about automation and it's a pretty important part of his theory. He did imagine such things (in the abstract).
>>929727 it's a thing called "imperialism" and things exist in context sorry the world is a little harder to comprehend than detached paroles you can't put together on your own apparently
>>929936 Ireland was about imperialism. But UK was formed when a Scottish king inherented the throne of England and Wales and united the counties because Scotland was broke. Where's the imperialism there?
>>929727 When other ideology fails they go back to their primary "fuck England" setting.
>>929727 nationalism/regionalism is way too complicated a subject to be covered by blanket statements.
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Thought that doesn't deserve it's own thread: "Trigger the libs" is a testament to how fundamental the sufferings and failures of American society have become. The constant pain and struggles are so universal and enduring, that one can no more imagine, nor comprehend imagining, an end to them. Instead of solutions, one seeks to deflect the pain, to see someone else suffer in ones own stead, a distraction. Since Man is not "evil" by nature or soul, such a stance naturally requires seeking justification for the suffering, be it towards "the other" or oneself; this gives form to a near-desperate vilification of the opposing other on any possible grounds, imagined or real, while scrounging and scraping for any cause for self-empowering feelings towards ones own hardship. Clownish caricatures and heroes, punished sinners and God-Emperors. All merely the result of a dividing escape from the actual problem.
Would you say the US Civil War, militarily and strategically, marks the transition from Napoleonic to Industrial Warfare? As in it fits as the exact middle ground between the two?
>>930934 I dunno but at the start they all tried to line up like Napoleonic tactics were still valid, even though the average guy had a rifle now. The initial deaths were large.
>>930940 That was my thought, it was the first major conflict in which Napoleon tactics were a severe tactical misstep
>>930934 That was the Crimean war
Was Hoxha a stalin simp?
What do you see as the reason for Soviet Union developing bureaucracy? Was it inherent in DoP, democratic centralism, or is it due to Stalin’s policy?
>>932292 It's inherent to any country with a centrally planned economy if they don't develop cybernetic planning. This is because to plan what to produce you need a bureaucracy which calculates a shitton of variables, such as how much to produce, where, when, how, etc etc. Now the thing most people miss is that the bureaucracy itself isn't bad per se, but what is negative is that if you don't adopt cybernetic planning you will always have issues regarding the people calculating shit; they can make mistakes, artificially inflate how much is needed to fill quotas, etc. Also a problem about the Soviet bureaucracy (which affected most of the Eastern Bloc countries too) was that they started becoming much more privileged than other citizens and stayed comfortable in their positions, so much so that one of the reasons the USSR never developed cybernetics to plan more effectively was that they were afraid the bureaucrats would turn against the higher party hierarchy due to losing their position, escalating into a potential party coup.
At what point does "coloniser" become "inhabitant"? Every country save for like Antarctica or something every country was won through conquest. No one is saying that Israel should be given to the Jews because they owned it 3000 years ago, so what's the threshold?
>>942794 By "no one" I mean no gommies, obviously Zionists want Israel to belong to them.
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So I just made this. What are your thoughts? (The last one is Haiti)
Marx uses the term "social production" quite a bit. What exactly does this mean, and what does it contrast with?
>>948135 I would say it's pretty accurate, maybe put Sweden a bit closer to Germany
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How does a marxist analysis ecolain this?
Do you guys think the "suffering depression, anxiety, stress, etc? You might be suffering from capitalism" types are susceptible to becoming Marxists?
>>948135 Move them all to the right. Socialism isn't a spectrum.
>>948135 BROTHERS THE ANCAP PARADISE IS IN HAITI
>>948135 This is actually really good because it will make rightoids i agreee that you put a black country on the most capitalist.
anons is it weird that i have been using image boards for longer than some other users have been alive?
>>955719 I started using imageboards in 2005. Yes, it's weird.
>>955719 You're probably just a loser who can't get a real hobby yet, like me. Welcome to the club I guess.
>>955724 Right? I didn't think about this today but there are going to be underage b& all over that were born in the mid to late 2000s. Where did the years go? haha >>955725 I have not used them consistently though through that time, I only really started using them again because of leftypol a few years ago and sometimes hax stuff on lainchan. I do not understand the other olds who build there life around playing video games and using chan, pretending the other anons are real friends.
>>955740 I stopped using imageboards around 2012 or so, but I came back to /leftypol/ because it's pretty much the only decent place to discuss leftist politics online. Sometimes I feel weird about being so much older than the average user here though.
>>955740 >I do not understand the other olds who build there life around playing video games and using chan, pretending the other anons are real friends. Oh yeah I don't use them nearly as much as when I was a teen, but I still do use them too much (as in I use them at all).
>>955748 Idk about that. I know there are some young people here but also lots that are in 20's and some that are 30s. I'd guess av. age was probably around 21-26, at a guess. which isn't so bad.
>>955754 >>955754 I'm 41. Geriatric boomer pretty much.
>>955754 We also have a 50 year old DDR boomer
>>955759 >>955766 This is both nice to hear! :)
>>955766 Bless. This makes me feel less alone.
How will the BRI benefit China?
>>906281 wage labor isn't even always productive work, it's also incomparable with working on something of your own volition.
How did Comecon work?
why do libs do this?
>>956749 you cant keep the monke caged
>>956749 The guy in the vid called it. She went off her meds or something. >This is why I don't agree with legalizing marijuana lmao even more detached from reality than the banshee
>>956749 What is she throwing in the ground?
>>956765 jfc mutts. Sort this.
>>956749 >>956765 Literal monkey brain, why are burgers retarded?
>>931019 You are right. The U.S. Civil War was full-on industrial. They just had a lot of old school generals who did not understand how to use what they had.
>>906273 The real answer is >state mandated gf fixed it for you
Are trots allowed?
>>956960 Yes. Stalinoids will give you shit, but this a non-sectarian board.
>>956978 Whew thank goodness, I thought only based bunkeristas were even allowed to breathe in here.
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>>956945 The real answer is >state mandated robogf (no real women are used as forced labor to give gfs to everybody) Fixed it for you
>>956960 Only Naztrots
>>957019 >genetically engineer the ratio of men to women at 1:10 because women are less antisocial and more productive Fixed it for you
>>957037 >more productive Now that's a lie
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>>957022 >not being muslim national trotskyist
>>957045 >not exploiting radlib feminist types by getting a high powered corporate wife so you can stay at home and shitpost about the revolution all day capitalism hasn't failed, you just suck at the game
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>>957053 Yeah I'm a Flattrot.
>>957059 >radlib feminists >productive They are just a work-team / coordination hazard Dog forgive the poor person having to go through the paperwork in human resources
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>>957077 I hate working with women because of this reason. You have to walk on eggshells to the point you can't even say "don't be a girl" or some other inane shit. If I have to work it won't be with women. Doesn't mean you can't find a corporate type and live off her bennies
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>>957090 >not finding yourself a girl (male) and living from both of your hardwork
>>957108 >working If I don't have too, why?
>>957117 Guilty from being the maintained one would caught up to me I can't even stand not buying something for my dates when we are out
>>957090 Imagine being so socially retarded that you don't understand why you shouldn't say "don't be a girl" to a girl.
>>957053 W H I T E J U C H E
>>957133 Oh don't be such a girl, dude.
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>>957126 It never bothered me. I mean I've been supporting my wife through school, but the ultimate goal is basically to have me work from home and take care of the kids. It only feels one sided if you aren't doing anything productive with your time. >>957133 I could give you a fun quip, but in my profession, people acting weak "like a girl" could literally cost others their lives, or at least create a great deal of work and suffering for others.
>>957133 ok libereal
>>957156 Maybe tell them to stop being weak, instead of insulting their entire sex. You don't have to be a fucking genius to understand why this would bother people.
>>957159 Liberalism is when you can interact with other people and the more you can interact with other people the more liberal you are
>>957159 okay permavirgin.
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<you can't call someone a girl >virgin shaming is fine
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>>957164 >peoples lives are on the line >DONT CALL ME A GIRL
>>957192 have sex
>>957197 If you want to save lives why don't you put some effort into communicating effectively with people. One good basic rule is to not insult people when you want them to do something. This shouldn't be rocket science but yet here we are.
>>957210 ok loser
>>957211 ok liberal
>>957208 Yea it communicates exactly what I mean and very effectively. stop being a girl lol
>>957221 based
>>957221 Apparently it doesn't, because the recipient doesn't react like you think she would as evidenced by the fact that you complain about the reaction here. All this is telling me is that you are piss poor at doing your job, which is somewhat concerning if it actually involves matters of life and death.
>>957243 Or maybe you are just concern trolling and have no problem doing it as long as it is done with your chosen identities.
>>957255 Nah, I'm just pointing out that you are a bit socially retarded.
>>957266 You are doing the same in this thread, why would anyone take a hypocrite seriously?
Could the Amerimutt take their idpol shitflinging somewhere else? Thanx.
Is this a perfect example of FEELS > REALS? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DqQvq94MI0
conspiracies all be blamed on capitalism, right? What would be an industry that that doesn't profit but is popular? Porn? Could it be that there are practices that are done becaues the evil following the ruling class that goes beyond money?
Bump for newfag polyps.
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>>958913 >Could it be that there are practices that are done becaues the evil following the ruling class that goes beyond money? If you're asking what I think you are they might have satanic kid-fucking rituals and if you want to fall down that hole, you'll find more than a decent amount of shit, but I would really, really advise going too much into it. I was thinking about this when someone in the usapol thread posted about how the US, with help from a former Nazi, created Lyme Disease. Even if it's true, it doesn't fundamentally change the fact that the United States is an uniquely evil state beyond redemption way prior this revelation, and there's no amount of "ah ha, SEE!" that you can say to normal people that'll get them to riot. It doesn't even really change how you'd effectively combat these conspiracies. It's just more info that, at best will collect dust on your mind's shelf along with all the rest of this evil shit, or at worst, you become obsessed with it and start thinking/acting in ways that are ironically counter productive at dealing with the conspiracy in the first place. The only way to ensure that this shit doesn't happen (if it did) is to ensure that nobody has the sort of power they do by creating a classless, stateless society so you couldn't get to the point where evil rape cabals have power in the first place. I'm not saying you're a dumbass for being interested, hell you can even point out it's true, but it's like meditation. Acknowledge the concept, but clear your head of it after.
Why did the USSR annex Moldova but not Romania entirely at some point? They're both Romanian-speaking -- might as well expand the Moldovian SSR to Romania proper.
>>959420 Thank you for answering despite my awful grammar.
>>961528 OH I wasn't trying to give you shit I was just confused.
Do any memes exist of the book Settlers but Settlers of Catan? I feel like this probably exists. link?
Should religious fundamentalists in places like Somalia and Afghanistan be critically supported for being the only militant opposition to US imperialism in those areas or not?
>>962211 They shouldn't because they have fought against communists in their past and will do again (or are currently doing so). They don't deserve our critical support.
>>962211 >should anti-kommunist forces be supported in Somalia and Afghanistan. No polyp.
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who is this sage????????????????????
>>962211 Fuck no. "critical support" is such a stupid term anyway. Who the fuck cares who you support? Just be against any capitalist war/intervention, protest, organize against it, etc. and you're already doing ten thousand times more than you are "critically supporting" ISIS or whatever.
How were DDR-Poland relations shortly after both republics were established? Did they have any trouble with their past, and if so, what did they do to remedy that?
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>>962256 Ulyana from the visual novel "Everlasting Summer" it's an alright sit
>>962701 I absolutely adore dat bulge. I don't care what kind of genitals those are, i love the bulge.
>>962701 That game is shit
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>>962705 You know what's funny? When I first came to this board years ago, some posted this exact image, and right after, someone posted the exact same response. In fact, when I was getting some food I was like "I wonder if there's gonna be any "that bulge" responses". Some things just don't change. >>962706 It's really not that bad. Graded on the visual novel curve, it's just average, especially compared to shit like Xblaze.
>>962701 i meant who or what is 'sage' i've been lurking/rarely posting for the past year but i still have no idea what that means
>>963559 it's a thing you type in the e-mail field so you don't bump the thread you're posting in up to the top. That's pretty much it. And I guess this namefag thought it'd be funny to also write 'sage' in the name field.
What's the deal with bhukarin Why was he killed
>>962786 That bulge is GOAT though
Has socialism ever been practiced? I am not talking about countries like the USSR that just called themselves socialist, I mean an actual historical case of workers owning the means of production.
>>964062 Yes, the USSR
>>962705 Fucking burgers cannot go two minutes without sexualising absolutely everything around them. pathetic.
>>964065 How? Didn't the state own the MoP and not the people?
>>964137 If you read Marx you'll know that the phrase "workers own" is never once written. Scientific socialism has never and will never be "workers own the MoP". It's much more than that, yes workplace democracy has been part of many socialist transformations in the past but just owning the MoP itself isn't socialism. There's many other factors missing from that inadequate description.
>>964290 Didn't we have a thread about this a couple days ago where some guy scanned all of Marx's works with a program for a certain phrase, then saying Marx never said socialism was public ownership of the MoP, and then another guy came in and used slightly different wording and it turns out Marx did basically say that? Anyways, what are some passages where Marx defines what socialism actually is?
>>964062 while I'm a ML and I consider the USSR to be socialist, but if you mean direct worker control of the workplace and Wolff style coops you should check out Yugoslavia and Titoism
>>964329 Engels puts it extremely clearly: > III. Proletarian Revolution — Solution of the contradictions. The proletariat seizes the public power, and by means of this transforms the socialized means of production, slipping from the hands of the bourgeoisie, into public property. By this act, the proletariat frees the means of production from the character of capital they have thus far borne, and gives their socialized character complete freedom to work itself out. Socialized production upon a predetermined plan becomes henceforth possible. The development of production makes the existence of different classes of society thenceforth an anachronism. In proportion as anarchy in social production vanishes, the political authority of the State dies out. Man, at last the master of his own form of social organization, becomes at the same time the lord over Nature, his own master — free. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/ch03.htm
Do labor vouchers end labor exploitation? The argument for that is because people are paid according to the amount of time they work, then they can not have their surplus value stolen, but what if each hour that people work instead has a certain percentage taken off in order to serve the enterprise? Is the argument that labor vouchers end exploitation thus false?
>>965719 Follow-up question: Wikipedia states that "They are also not exchangeable for any means of production, hence they are not transmutable into capital." Is this true either? What's to prevent people from purchasing machinery, or components for the construction of machinery, with labour vouchers?
>>964329 Here: >Let us now picture to ourselves, by way of change, a community of free individuals, carrying on their work with the means of production in common, in which the labour power of all the different individuals is consciously applied as the combined labour power of the community. All the characteristics of Robinson’s labour are here repeated, but with this difference, that they are social, instead of individual. Everything produced by him was exclusively the result of his own personal labour, and therefore simply an object of use for himself. The total product of our community is a social product. One portion serves as fresh means of production and remains social. But another portion is consumed by the members as means of subsistence. A distribution of this portion amongst them is consequently necessary. The mode of this distribution will vary with the productive organisation of the community, and the degree of historical development attained by the producers. We will assume, but merely for the sake of a parallel with the production of commodities, that the share of each individual producer in the means of subsistence is determined by his labour time. Labour time would, in that case, play a double part. Its apportionment in accordance with a definite social plan maintains the proper proportion between the different kinds of work to be done and the various wants of the community. On the other hand, it also serves as a measure of the portion of the common labour borne by each individual, and of his share in the part of the total product destined for individual consumption. The social relations of the individual producers, with regard both to their labour and to its products, are in this case perfectly simple and intelligible, and that with regard not only to production but also to distribution. And: >Within the co-operative society based on common holding of the means of production, the producers do not exchange their products; just as little does the labor employed on the products appear here as the value of these products, as a material quality possessed by them, since now, in contrast to capitalist society, individual labor no longer exists in an indirect fashion but directly as a component part of total labor. The phrase "proceeds of labor", objectionable also today on account of its ambiguity, thus loses all meaning. >What we have to deal with here is a communist society, not as it has developed on its own foundations, but, on the contrary, just as it emerges from capitalist society; which is thus in every respect, economically, morally, and intellectually, still stamped with the birthmarks of the old society from whose womb it emerges. Accordingly, the individual producer receives back from society – after the deductions have been made – exactly what he gives to it. What he has given to it is his individual quantum of labor. For example, the social working day consists of the sum of the individual hours of work; the individual labor time of the individual producer is the part of the social working day contributed by him, his share in it. He receives a certificate from society that he has furnished such-and-such an amount of labor (after deducting his labor for the common funds); and with this certificate, he draws from the social stock of means of consumption as much as the same amount of labor cost. The same amount of labor which he has given to society in one form, he receives back in another. And then: >But these defects are inevitable in the first phase of communist society as it is when it has just emerged after prolonged birth pangs from capitalist society. Right can never be higher than the economic structure of society and its cultural development conditioned thereby. (meaning the above) >In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly – only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!
>>964065 The USSR was still in the transitionary phase when the Khrushchevites took over and undid all progress to a classless society so it was never socialist.
>>965854 >What's to prevent people from purchasing machinery, or components for the construction of machinery, with labour vouchers? They won't be available for you to purchase
>>965901 Would you be able to purchase their components? That, or 3D-print them?
>>965901 Also, in what way do labor vouchers prevent the accumulation of means of production that money doesn't? Why not just take all MoP off the market and enforce this by law?
>>965911 Like what? what for? I'm not really getting your point >>965927 >Why not just take all MoP off the market and enforce this by law? That what the USSR did
>>965911 I think something of that scale, as in individuals purchasing the components of means of production, isn't an issue because of the work hours needed to reproduce them. Even if you had a 3D printer you would need to 3D print robots or something, and then have access to the resources to 3D print more robots -- something which is theoretically possible but unlikely atm, though a problem for a future society to be sure. What is more plausible though is small collectives within the wider society pooling their social labor independent of the planning apparatus and creating their own means of production themselves. However if them doing this doesn't result in anything harmful then it's not really an issue, people should be free to do this in fact.
>>965939 >Like what? what for? I'm not really getting your point The question was, do labor vouchers prevent people from 3D-printing things like gears, pistons, etc. for later assembly in complex means of production?
>>965962 Read Cockshott
>>965967 Gimme a summary of the relevant parts. Again, I'm asking in what way do labor vouchers prevent people from getting MoP that money can't.
>>965974 Because labor vouchers aren't money, they're not a commodity.
>>965982 How does this disable labor vouchers from being able to buy MoP?
>>965992 They're not in circulation. Once you give them to get whatever you need they don't continue being circulated. L-C but no finishing of this.
>>966004 And in this case the C isn't even a C
>>966004 So why can't a person give them to get MoP?
>>966020 There wouldn't even be any mop to "buy" and even if you somehow did it's not like there would be any labor to "buy" either because of the aforementioned L-"C"
>>966028 So labor vouchers aren't exclusive in that they disable the acquiring of MoP? You could have an economy with money, but people would not be able to get things like machinery because of government regulation, rather than whether there are vouchers or money, correct?
>>966041 No because labor vouchers aren't commodities, if you give one in it doesn't continue being circulated, which means labor can't be bought with it. With money, if you give it to someone to hire their labor they can then buy another commodity with that.
>>966020 You cannot own the MoP privately in socialism, that is private property. The entire point of socialism is abolishing private property.
>>966041 You can't employ anyone with labor vouchers, you can't give them your labor vouchers as payment. You can employ people with money
Can anyone link some sources about Marinaleda
>>966043 >>966055 Can people be employed by payment in kind? For instance, they work a certain amount of time for you, you buy something they want, and then give it to them.
How easy was obtaining a gun in the USSR?
>>967030 Join Hunting Society Get gun
>>967068 source thank you though
Was the Doctors' Plot specifically made to target Jews or is that just Western propaganda?
>>967409 There was a really good effortpost here a while back making the case for it being real, hope someone screencapped it/sourced it.
>>967497 oh shit...
>>967497 I mean, I know it did happen, but was it motivated by distrust towards Jews as libs say?
>>967505 No as in the conspiracy was real and it culminated in Stalin's death. I can't remember the Jews being mentioned in it, it was mostly concerned with reassignments of staff and security.
>>967584 If you could find it quickly, it would be expedient. I am trying to convince a friend of mine, but he's both Jewish and a lib so it's a pretty big deal-breaker for him
are state-owned companies really unprofitable, if so how do I defend the concept of state-owned?
How much of Ra Ra Rasputin Russia's greatest Love Machine is true?
Was Lysenko as badly wrong as people say? Why or why not?
1. Was the Barbara Pit massacre justified? 2. (hope this isn't too idpol) How do you refute "anti-white" racism spooks?
i know im supposed to read marx but i tried and im too retarded for this shit. whats a good modern explanation of marxism to read? ill get way better of a grasp on the core concepts of marxism that way rather than trying to dredge through capital. its way too dense for my retard ass and i miss the forest for the trees trying to keep up with all these explanations of values and shit
>>969208 Have you tried reading Engels? Try Socialism scientific and utopian it's a great first read and it's much easier than capital.
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>>969196 >Was the Barbara Pit massacre justified? That's up to you, bud. I mean, I'd say it was pretty justified. Considering both the state that the former Yugoslavia is in currently, the conditions that led up to the massacre and what they created out of the ruins of WWII, you can definitely see why it happened. But then again, I've never killed someone, I didn't live through those conditions and neither have you. >How do you refute "anti-white" racism spooks? If they're rich, you can't. Steal what isn't bolted down, vandalize the rest and make their life a living hell to the best of your ability. If they're working class, chances are the things they perceive to be "anti-white" racism (like being passed up for a well paying job because a black guy got it instead or some shit) could be directly attributed to capitalism's blight (well, everyone should have a decent fucking job, I don't blame the guy who got the job, he wanted to put food on the table, too). Hammer home class as much as possible, connect their issues with the issues of people who aren't white. If they're complaining about "essjaydubs on the internet say white people are evil", point out how everyone saying that won't even touch social democracy with a 50 foot pole. And be less of a dick than I am usually. >>968854 >are state-owned companies really unprofitable, if so how do I defend the concept of state-owned? 1) Not always, no. If you're a burger, see the USPS. Not only is it significantly less shitty than UPS or FedEx, it makes money and only has financial woes because of having to fund pensions 75 years in advance. 2) For state-owned industries that don't turn a profit, point out how them trying to would make them significantly shittier, and how the market can't or won't meet everyone's needs. Healthcare usually isn't profitable, but not only do burgers pay out the fucking nose so it can be, it ends up being either shittier or just non-existent to state-ran healthcare. >>969114 all of it
>>969208 Michel Heinrich: An Introduction to the Three Volumes of Karl Marx's Capital Balibar, Althusser et al: Reading Capital and fuck the anglo readings by harvey
>>969187 Yes. Cuz he sent his scientific opponents to gulag. His theories actually are nowadays extremeley missrepresented and his work was not all that insane, just a bit misjudged
As a recent convert from lib to full Marxism I'm a bit worried by all the leftist spaces I go into that seem dominated by American leftists that have this weird fantasy of punishing the white race for past transgressions. Not everyone in the spaces is like this, but people freely post about how "settler states" need "decolonising" and no one else will challenge them on this view. Like where the fuck are white and black Americans supposed to go during decolonisation. There's a lot of "white first worlders can't be prolitariat" and saying their entire lifestyle and prosperity is off the backs of the global south. And that white people will need to be "Taken down a few pegs" when socialism is established, in other words punished again. How prevalent is this in leftist spaces and ideology? It's very common in discord and on Reddit. Cause I believe in Marxism cause I think it's the best chance we have of saving the world in the future and making everyone equal. But I'd rather be a neolib than support policies that will make myself and my race worse off or the enemy.
>>969466 yeah, this is amerifat left, which is just left-liberals wanting to make "the world a better, fairer place" without actually abolishing capitalism However, it is ture that large parts of the so called "middle class" can have a high quality of life due to stuff being dirt cheap because it's made by (basically) slave labor. And it is also true that, if the "third world" manages to liberate itself from western opression, prices will go up and the quality of life for the average westerner will be worse.
>>969466 >>969494 And to conclude - talking about "squaring things" or "making things fair" is irrelevant without the overthrow of capitalism.
>>969496 I'd wish for all the world to be elevated to the same status as middle class first worlders. I don't want to make everyone equal by pulling them down into the dirt. That's like the conspiracies rightoids throw around "socialists want you to be poor so everyone can be equally poor"
>>969520 I'm not too well read on the whole Marxist thing yet, but I'm never sure that bringing everyone up to the standards a middle class citizen in the US/EU is something that's even feasible. I've begun to feel in the last couple of years that the lives of well to do westerners are lives of redundancy and excess the seasonal and yearly wardrobes, the hundreds of different brands of calorically dense junk, the endless desire for land, the need for the automobile, the whole structures built up producing junk that no one really needs like Funko Pops and poop emoji pillows....I think that we in The West Is Best territories have been conditioned from early ages to view our superflous luxuries as inseparable, as things that we cannot live without, and I feel that the cruel reality is that if we really do want a better, more equitable world we're going to have to give up a lot of what we're used to. That's not to say we can't lead comfortable lives, but I think society under global communism would look so radically different any comparisons to standards of living under capitalism would be nonsensical
>>969562 I'm still holding out for post scarcity luxury space communism so I hope everyone in the world can one day have as many funkopops and emoji pillows as they want.
>>969589 That's just wishful thinking though.
>>969525 >>969562 One thing that both liberals and anti-imperialists fail to appreciate is that the supposed "middle-class westerner" has exactly fuck-all when you factor in debt. They do not own their land or their homes either because they rent or they pay mortgages. They do not own their vehicles; the damned things are virtually useless by the time they are paid off. The stuff in their homes is built to break doen after a couple years. It is the prevailing, and entirely wrong, theory among anti-imperialists that the means of subsistence are made artificially cheap by "third-word" (which is just poor framing) labor. The plain fact is that there is nothing artificial about it. The reason that labor-power in some places is cheaper than it is in others is that there are simple variations in the composition of the means of subsistence between places. That is to say that certain types of labor are cheaper to reproduce than others are, and, rather than one system (the First-World) exploiting another (the Third-World), they are both component parts of one system, one society: global capitalism. This is significant to the question of quality of life (which you seem to be conflating with having a number of commodities), because there is no reason to expect the factories in the supposed Third-World to slow production when communism is achieved. On the contrary, they will speed up as the lack of a need to turn a profit will allow them to constantly run at full capacity with a full compliment of laborers. They will suppler not only the demographics that they already serve but their own laborers as well. In addition, production will be efficient in a way that capitalism is spectacularly inefficient: without a purpose to planned obselesence the things that do get made will be made to last. Thus consumers everywhere will be able to accumulate the things that make their lives better rather than working tirelessly in debt to constantly replace them. So, no the "middle-class" standard of living will not go down in communism, contrary to what vulgar marxist anti-imperialists would have you believe.
>>906351 lol based
>>906588 >During socialism was more the most powerful country in the Balkans [Citation need]
>>969750 Name a country with more bunkers
WHO IS PICREL? I see this name so often here, who is this?
>>969355 Misrepresented how?
1. Is there a marxist analysis of the service/knowledge sector? (like doctors, architects, computer scientists, etc). 2. Under a marxist economy how will people in the service sector be compensated? also labor vouchers?
>>969187 Apparently I remember someone asking something similar to your question about him and one good thing he discovered (which we now know to be 100% confirmed) is that certain crops can develop certain characteristics of resillience and such in only a few generations if they are exposed to the appropriate conditions.
>>969765 >a countrys strength is determiend by how many concrete huts in the wilderness it has.
>>968854 There is no reason for state owned companies to be more or less profitable than privately owned ones except for the things they produce. For example the point of public transport is to get people from point A to point B efficiently and affordably, not to make money. >>969196 Killing nazis is always justified. >>969208 there is a nice summary of Vol. 1 which I actually enjoyed https://www.marxists.org/archive/cafiero/1879/summary-of-capital.htm >>969779 Picrel is a very controversial figure, some say they are the smartest person ever, some say they are the dumbest.
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would you?
Do any of you do wikipedia editing? I know some people hate it but why not make it better instead of ceding ground?
>>969295 >>970153 Thanks comrade! i never understand those who support private-company. they deserve the wall
Can we like raid /lit/ again?
>>971055 I made a Naztrot thread but it got deleted. What exactly do you want to raid them with?
>>971061 LGBT propaganda, posing as a transgender, rubbing the gayreek stuff in their face, everything that pisses them off. I've been spamming for the past 3 hours but jannies keep deleting my shit and I can't seem to make any more threads on my app.
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>>971064 Go read theory instead. Or contribute to Leftypedia.
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Why were the Red Brigades not based, anons? Why would you have stood against them?
>>971129 Because they didn't accomplish their aims, basically.
>>971285 We've seen your pics, /pol/. You guys are not getting laid.
>>971292 This seems like bad reasoning, anon. Can you elaborate?
>>971303 Basically, that kind of leftist terrorism or whatever you want to call it is only effective if you have the masses behind you otherwise it will have an alienating effect.
>>971315 The RAF afair never had an alienating affect. How is some of the stuff they do qualitatively different than some of the things that lenin, et al did?
>>969295 but isn't "diversity hiring" inherently anti-white?
>>971323 RAF definitely had an alienating effect, where people might have been supportive in the beginning where they weren't in the end. Mid you, it is not the violence per se I'm objecting to, it's that it doesn't translate into approval from the masses.
>>906279 Just go to >>>/dead/
>>906279 embrace capitalism. If you are to be a NEET you must go with the flow. sign up for social security (if you're murican) I grew up on social security because my dad died and my mom is physically disabled.
Isn't "socialist" a redundant label if socialism is just meant to be a transitionary state towards communism?
Why do some leftists (especially of the Sakai type) spell America 'Amerika'?
>>971658 >(derogatory) America; used to imply that the US is fascist. From German Amerika, in imitation of the German-speaking Nazis. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Amerika
Why do they call it "post-left" what is the "post" referring to? After what? and what is post-punk referring to as well?
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Why do so many porkies hate Trump despite him working in their economic interests, e.g. corporate tax cuts?
>>972732 It depends on the porky though, but he was for a while disrupting the regular flows of free trade with tariffs and whatnot.
>>973072 It is?
>>971748 "after the fact", as in, it can be seen as an evolution or natural progression after the influence of the original has made its mark and informed the thinking of the base. post-punk is basically punk trying to find an identity after its peak. I don't care about music genres that much, but The Shape of Punk to Come is considered by many to be the defining post-punk album.
>Most of us here are white first worlders coming from the upper working class or the middle class. Are fairly well educated and have at least enough money to afford computers and internet. How are we not going to get shot for being bougie? Marx even said that fucking peasants are bougie and reactionary. We are way better off than peasants.
Did anyone else spend to much time online in youth and now kind of do >IMPLYING irl when interacting with normies? It is kind of a problem for me i think..
>>973618 Because your class character is not dependent on how wealthy you are.
How possible is it to setup a liberal/radlib organization for the pupose of funneling porky donation to actual revolutinary parties? Was this tried before? Or is it impossible to do without actual liberals preventing the supply of radical movements?
Would it be ok to start a /biz/ thread here on hobby? It’s kinda a booj thing, but I feel like some of the neets on here could use it to scrounge some money together in non wageslave ways.
>>976405 Do it, /leftybiz/ would be cool.
>>975981 I don't know how well it would work, but it could certainly be possible. Cultural grants and the like is where there is a lot of wiggle room in my experience.
>>974085 Isn't this definition outdated now? I know class is defined by your relation to the means of production, but an employee (prole) earning five times as much as another employee is considered bourgeois now.
>>976447 He shouldn't be, because he's not. Also, ignore the third-worldists screeching about "labor aristocrats."
What type of mode of production did Egypt have before the New Kingdom? It certainly wasn't slavery. Did they go straight from hunter-gatherer societies to feudalism, skipping slave societies?
>>973618 Class isn't your income range you radlib.
Why do dialectics cause the "death of philosophy" (e.g sciences have emerged from philosophy and have their own basis/foundation and philosophy is now exclusively epistemology)
Why does it seem like so many on here glorify work? Shouldn’t a socialist society embrace automation as much as possible to give people more times to do hobbies and shit? Shouldn’t a socialist society get rid of jobs which are a waste of time? I feel like so many people here see themselves as being some sort of great ruler, and talk about killing anyone who doesn’t want to work in some shit factory.
>>976952 Of course, but when people here talk about not working they clearly mean a non-automated society. I think most communists would agree full automation is a goal (as far away as it may be now) but we'll have to work for that goal, and work won't be able to be abolished in the lower stage of communism.
Who else hates anarchists? God knows I do.
>>976952 >Shouldn’t a socialist society embrace automation as much as possible to give people more times to do hobbies and shit? Yes. Per Marx himself <In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly—only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs! from Critique of the Gotha Programme <In communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic. from The German Ideology The point is that ultimately any necessary work to be done can be covered by a natural inclination to do fulfilling things.
>>976952 Puritanist values. Also people derive their sense of self and self worth from work. A lot of people just want to make an honest living and get paid decently for it. Also, a lot of anti communist rhetoric is about people not working and reaping the rewards of society. So they counter with "he who doesn't work, doesn't eat" (a Bible reference, I believe). Many people don't understand or don't agree with the anti work portion of Marx. I liked conquest of bread, a general reading about the zapatistas, and some autonomists to gain this anti work perspective.
>>974078 How do you do >IMPLYING irl? Do you just say the word or what?
Is there anything to go against the narative that people who take better care of their bodies, work more ambitiously and hit the gym and so on will be more right wing than others?
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>>979295 Based
>>978872 That narrative is mostly due to confirmation bias coming from rightwingers themselves. It is true that many leftwing articles/ """studies""" (which let's be honest, are pseudoscientific garbage to justify having an unhealthy lifestyle) suggest that shit like exercising a lot are more common in rightwingers but these people are a minority in the world, they don't represent the notions held by the majority of the world population.
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does this image destroy communism?
>>979819 >(which let's be honest, are pseudoscientific garbage to justify having an unhealthy lifestyle) if there're people who say it like that, hol shit they are retarded how do they even breath?
>>979932 No, because a). Most bosses don't do work like that. They hire people for marketing and finance And b). Thats a gross underexaggeration of workers actual jobs.
>>980364 They still gotta hire the right people for marketing and finance. Most small businesses in particular fail after a few years - the ones that survive deserve it :)
Anyone got the link for a documentary called "US War on Yugoslavia" or "NATO War on Yugoslavia" or something like that?
Why doesn't price have a complete correlation with labor input?

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