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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join our matrix! https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=bunkerchan

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"Saying the word retard is wrong because it's a meanie slur!" Anonymous 06/26/2020 (Fri) 17:15:07 No. 644108
"Also you can't say stupid, idiot, crazy, ANYTHING, if you can't explain why someone is wrong don't say anything, insulting someone's intelligence is mean to the disabled etc, etc, etc" Okay, I know Leftypol isnt like this, but what's with so many commies being fucking thin-skinned pussies banning meanie words like it's fucking kindergarten? Do these faggots not know what the point of insults are? Do they think normies will see them as anything other than pathetic fucking pussies when they rant about how calling a Nazi retarded is ableist??? What's with modern commies and trying so fucking hard to look like faggots, what is this pussy shit? So many commies huffing radlib wokeness it's damaged their fucking brains. These fags go from banning nazism (understandable), to banning slurs (okay), to fucking banning the meanie words. Why? How do these fuckers survive in public? Mind you this is the same segment of commies that are usually deeply mentally ill with "muh anxiety" "can't leave the house" etc. God I hate these fuckers, watching yet another chat descend into their radlib faggotry, why, why, why??????
Coming of age during the Tumblr years fucked us all up in our own ways.
I agree that mean words have no place in educated discussion tho. If you can't argue without sperging out and calling people retarded you obviously arent mature enough. It contributes nothing to the discussion and is generally a mood killer.
>>644112 Fuck, I wish I just had a time machine so I could destroy that fucking site Modern American leftists are such fucking pussies..... At least the species inhabiting the internet are and AFAIK a little over half the ones offline too
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I mean, if you can't respond to someone's argument except by calling them a retard then you don't know how to argue, but still framing everything in terms of offensiveness is, well, stupid.
>>644124 I wonder how would modern left look like without it
>>644122 I'm not talking about intellectual debates, just people shooting the shit These are the fags that actually took those stupid ass "be nice" ads from the 2000s to heart It's always the same with these people, they start with banning retard then while justifying it they'll tell you it's also wrong to say idiot and stupid and sooner or later fucking "dumb" is a slur and we're back in kindergarten
>radlib Ignore, mock, bully, sideline and silence It may be cruel but it is the only way comrade I wish it were not so, feelsbadman
>>644140 Unfortunately most leftist spaces gladly bend to idiotic radlib demands, only leftypol refuses
>>644131 Most likely those mods are power hungry and use the "retard" shit as an excuse to ban whoever they dislike. Online community mods are almost always drama queens, even back in the day when social media didn't really exist, mods would power trip and cause drama and make retarded rules too
>>644126 >if you can't respond to someone's argument except by calling them a retard then you don't know how to argue Bullfucking shit retard Sometimes things are so retarded you just have to call it like it is and move the discussion forward to more important issues
>>644126 Sometimes things are way too retarded to even bother to respond you might just as well insult them rather than wasting your time making serious argument. Call a spade a spade.
>>644152 You seem to not be able to separate between insulting ideas and personal insults. Yes, you should absolutely call out idiotic ideas and you don't to dignify them with proper responses, but there is no reason to attack the person behind those ideas unless doing so relates to said argument.
>>644126 Sometimes you need to be able to point out that your opponents brain is slow and malfunctioning.
>>644159 Some people deserve personal insults.
>>644149 Nah this bullshit was began by someone that almost never even participates in discussions other than to stir up some radlib idpol bullshit, one of the radlib tards with an anime profile pic, worst kind. Made several radlib struggle sessions over the meanie word and advocated banning idiot and stupid too. In leftist forums it's always some fag with an anime profile, fucking hell. And of course leftypol is the only place where mods don't cater to radlibs
>>644108 they must be flogged
If you hate the weak you are a fascist.
>>644210 I love you dearly Are you ok retard?
>>644210 >If you say the meanie words you clearly are a eugenicist who despises the mentally disabled and wants to annihilate them People like you are why normies see us as pussies
>>644108 Reminds me of when the woke tried to invent a slur that wasn't oppressing. They came up with "shithlord". It took like 3.42 seconds before the targets of the word took it to their hearts.
>>644210 the problem is not hating the weak. it’s that people get offended if you even acknowledge weakness
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>>644108 Well I half agree, banning bad words is weakness, but using insults usually is too.
>>644210 loving the weak also makes you a fascist btw, that's their whole spiel. making themselves out to be the victim, muh white genocide and all that. The actual *marxist* approach is pushing that strength and weakness is as much a false dichotomy as left and right. What actually matters is the truth of the situation.
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What's funny is that clinical diagnostics have had to come up with new words to return to dumb people every few decades because their old words keep getting coopted as insults.
>>644268 basically the fascist thing isn't love or hating X, its the false holistic approach of treating X as X as such. the marxist point would be that the weak aren't weak anymore than capitalism is capitalism. every concept is internally contradictory, so it's false to justify how you feel about a group of people based on their characteristics (strength or weakness), which you could find out was wrong at any time. Your judgements rely on yourself alone, you're solely responsible for everything.
>>644278 "euphemism treadmill" the whole language policing thing - especially around very common lingo, say, calling some idea "stupid" is ableist - is yet another barrier between political activists and the people who they are supposed to organise/convince/agitate. stupidity is an inherently negative trait, using euphemistic language isn't going to change that there is never gonna be an unironic retard pride, the best thing to do for intellectually disabled is to help them work around their disability if a person doesn't individually want to use "ableist" language, fine, but don't do witch hunts or struggle sessions around them, esp in public or god forbid TO the public
>>644126 >I mean, if you can't respond to someone's argument except by calling them a retard sorry sweaty but we can do both
>>644210 except usually these people aren't weak, they're utterly cynical and manipulative crybullies.
>>644402 Ngl, even tho the Bunkerchan jannies annoy me from time to time they’re infinitely better than the cynical power-tripping autists throughout the rest of the internet Left who clearly haven’t gotten over getting bullied in high school.
You sound triggered. The reason why such insults and slurs are discouraged and condemned is because it is a thoughtless substitute for an argument that instrumentalises the abjected and marginalised and reinforces bourgeois notions of hegemonic psychiatry for the purpose of being a contemptible asshole. It's that simple. Those who use such terms overwhelmingly do so to abuse and delegitimise their target so that they can police behaviour and silence dissent without ever actually having to participate in a discussion like a competent human being. If you want proof of this, just look literally anywhere on this board: all you find is triggered shitposters using edgy language to shut down anons they don't like and who do not give a single fuck about the groups who are thrown under the bus in the process. In short, it is sociopathic and it is fascist. Go back to /pol/.
>>644503 Welcome to Leftypol. You should probably leave.
>>644503 It must really bother you to see that leftypol will never bend to your radlib faggotry, huh?
>>644108 50% because they're genuinely nicer people than any of us and don't want to hurt people's feelings. they have an overabundance of empathy. 50% social signalling game conducted by intelligent sociopaths. they don't really care about the word, but they know that they can use the fact you said the word to lower your status and to increase their own in the process.
>>644503 maybe CHAZ should've censored more curse words, that must've been the problem.
>>644523 >50% because they're genuinely nicer people than any of us and don't want to hurt people's feelings. they have an overabundance of empathy. This is genuinely noble savage faggotry. And patronizing as fuck on top of that. If you want to go to bat for the intellectually disabled you have to do better than that.
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>>644511 I have been here, and on the chans, longer than you knew they existed. Just because I refrain from participating in the faeces fingerpainting that the mental toddlers here love to smear across the playpen, that does not mean that I am new to it. I simply grew up. >>644514 More so I am tired of this board failing to ever overcome its origins as lefty/pol/. I am tired of the anticommunist consensus therein. I am tired of this board never being anything more than /pol/ with lefty characteristics. And I am tired that its denizens still have the temerity to suggest they are better than /pol/yps when they are fundamentally the same, only wearing different garb, especially given that this entire board originated as the downstream sludge draining off of /b/ and /pol/. The fact that you infer from my discontent that I am one of (((them))) is a case in point. With few exceptions, there are no longer thinking human beings here. They all left or died long ago.
>>644503 unironically based
>>644532 Aren’t you the doomerist faggot that rants and raves against Marxists on a daily basis in favor of your worthless radlib postmodernist drivel and “more communist than thou” bullshit?
>>644531 you're retarded if you read that first 50% as referring to the retarded, rather than as to people of normal intelligence who get upset when you say retard. way to miss the point.
>>644532 I'm old enough to have been on the internet since the merry USENET days. Don't even try to start with the pissing contest about whom the biggest oldfag is. It is clear that you don't like the community here, you don't like the culture and you don't like your fellow comrades. All fair, but that also means that you should gtfo and go somewhere where you feel that your presence is appreciated. Which is not here and that is not likely to change.
>>644550 i appreciate their presence tho
>>644543 That's also patently false. Most of the sociopathic people I've met have been big on language policing. They have all used it as a weapon to emotionally abuse people and to wield power in general.
>>644552 Good for you. Maybe you two can go and start your own chan with blackjack and hookers and vegan cats.
>>644532 I like your posts bro, go on /edu/ if you want more respect, the shit flinging of leftypol is addictive.
>>644503 take your meds
>>644555 you may recall that i divided the people who do so into two categories of 50%, one of which was literally sociopaths.
>>644565 Heh, that's what's I get for not reading posts properly.
>>644532 bs, the board is pretty chill compared to literally anything on 4ch/8ch I don't like people writing N-words so much but it's probably a big deal for gringos to say the taboo thing anti-idpol idiots should be contained better too otherwise it's pretty comfy
>>644532 >there are no longer thinking human beings here. They all left or died long ago I am not sure if this board has become a lot worse or if it is just a perception issue. It does seem like it was better years ago but who can really tell. For the most part I am convinced it was never good except for the occasional quality discussion when the stars aligned just right. Imageboards will never be something different, they as a medium are unsuitable for anything more than throwing some half thought out garbage out for various reasons. /b/ and /pol/ are far worse than here.
>>644587 >I am not sure if this board has become a lot worse or if it is just a perception issue it hasn't gotten worse. 4 years ago /leftypol/ was nothing but a bunch of nazism/nazbol vs communism threads. it's probably gotten worse in the past few months but everything has its ups and downs.
>>644108 My cousin is disabled and I dislike people using it but I wouldn't ban it, hating the disabled is a good mark of fascism so it's useful to know who should be shot.
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>>644550 Overwhelmingly, I am appreciated nowhere I go. I am near-universally despised, hated by many and loved by few, a nomad who wends and wanders these digital lands with lantern in hand seeking an honest man -- a real human being. Everywhere I arrive, I bring with the ruthless criticism of all that exists; asses despise gadflies and fascists despise street preachers, however, and so I drink hemlock whenever I do not hang from a cross. In that social sense, I have died countless times. I know I shall die here too. In a world whose totality scorns my very existence, of what difference is here or there? I will die all the same, whether by hemlock or the cross.
>>644679 Bruh maybe if nobody likes you you’re just an asshole?
>>644679 >the ruthless criticism of all that exists Comrade, I am curious Could you demonstrate how your thought develops by posting it out say by applying this criticism to the existence of your notion that this board is anticommunist
>>644685 I mean show your workings as in post your thoughts as they come, etc
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>>644587 Once upon a time there were entire threads full of paragraph after paragraph of theory and history and thoughtful critique, where Lenin hats and nihilists and leftcoms all discussed with a modicum of decorum. That is gone now. The old meme that /board/ was never good misses the point: it may have never been good, but it used to be better. Chans have the potential to be far more than they usually are, as evinced by how they have been during brief moments throughout their histories. The chan model is superior to forums for open and lengthy discussion, yet it is used for the most petty and puerile of pursuits, worse than even Twitter and without even a short character limit for an excuse. It is where the miserable immiserate each other rather than cultivate lives worth living. It is as you said, but it never needed to be. Some days I see more intelligent leftist commentary on 4chan's /b/. At least /pol/ does not deny that it is anticommunist. All this board has going for it anymore is the fact that it is ostensibly defined for genuine leftist discussion, even though any attempt at it is often shouted down and bullied until nobody wants to even try anymore. In other words, all that remains of this board worth keeping is the mere concept of a chan board for leftist politics. The rest can be razed entirely with no loss at all.
>>644608 I don't hate disabled people, but I would mock specially delusional people that is not disable just to piss them off. >>644503 Hey, if you are mad, you are mad. You sounds like a highly mentally repressed guy. I hope never been near you when you explode. >>644108 They are eating some idpol shit in their narratives. I despise them.
>>644159 >idiotic ideas idiot is an ableist slur you are banned t. /r/socialism (my posts were deleted because i used the word stupid)
>>644727 It truly would be a joy to line up all the leftyreddit powermods up against a wall and pick them off one by one. Truly subhumans, I hate them.
>>644542 Yep, he is the very same one. The single worst poster on this board. Probably not a glowie, but basically doing their work for them. Thinks he's the only real communist here, everyone else is just a fascist or a capitalist in disguise. Abhors organizing, thinks that organizations and parties are incapable of bringing about communism, and are just capitalist in nature. Nothing but paragraphs and paragraphs of anarchist nihilist borderline doomerism and shitflinging at other leftists. TL:DR an absolute brainlet, bully on sight of his faggot meme flag.
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>>644683 So you say, servile to popularity, affirming that the problem is always with the hated and not those who hate them, for in your mind one is only ever hated if they deserve to be. >>644685 >>644686 How do you mean? If you are asking me to type my thoughts as they come, I actually already do. I think "paragraphically", as I was once told. If what you want is for me to critique my critique of this board as anticommunist, then I can, but I do not criticise for its own sake; I do so toward the end of changing this world, not merely interpreting it. How does doing so do so? With every argument and critique I present, I am already aware of its flaws and often already have critiques of it devised. I do not approach these matters haphazardly. So I already know how one might approach and attack my claims, and for that reason I am already prepared. Often, however, it does not even come to that because none approaches them at all. If all that is left is for me to critique myself, then that is something I do not need to perform in front of my detractors.
>>644108 >I'm a disciplined revolutionary committed to the liberation of the working class! >what!? you mean I can't say a few words that don't need to be said in the first place? That's not fair, fuck my comrades, I want to say word!
>>644679 I know you're trying to wax poetic about how poor and persecuted you are but really dude, you just come off as a pretentiuos faggot. You annoy everyone on the internet and nobody likes your shtick. That's all there is to it.
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OP is retarded Keep the edgy talk on imageboards and with the bros. Serious organizing talk should not have to include slurs and that is an inappropriate time. Learn social intelligence. Some people are going to act like faggots no matter what so ignore them they waste time and energy.
>>644744 wish I could make this post appear at the foot of everyone's bed like the 2001 monolith
>>644749 FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT CLICK THAT LIK THIS IS NOT A JOKE IF YOU DO IMMEDIATELY TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER AND CLEAN YOUR ENTIRE HARD DRIVE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND ALL THAT IS HOLY IN THIS WORLD
>>644744 >Mention specifically online leftist spaces <Randos say you’re retarded and act like you’re talking about a union rally
>>644741 >How dare you say meanie words online!? This is how you sound rn
>>644764 no its just a shit board
>>644749 >>644764 Probably Looks like we might need jannies in here ASAP
>>644756 what’s in it?
>>644740 >Nobody likes me no matter where I go <Clearly it is because I am right and they are wrong and not because I’m an annoying asshole
>>644769 Nothing.
>>644210 The left-wing response is not to side with the weak but to abolish weakness itself by strengthening people.
>>644740 I told you stop whining and get your ass on /edu/
>>644771 No, I am merely insinuating that others, indeed the whole world, can be wrong about someone, especially when nobody bothers to actually see what they have to say and only learns of the person through prevailing lies. Right now, you are calling me an asshole for simply acknowledging that I am despised wherever I go for being a ruthless critic of all that exists. My response is to point out how concluding as much simply because I am despised, especially without any context or evidence whatsoever, merely assumes and affirms prevailing ideology rather than critically examining the matter. Your response is to again malign me and call me an asshole. And yet I am the asshole for pointing out precisely this dynamic. This is off-topic and making this about me benefits no one. This is my final post for the night; I will return to receive your scorn tomorrow. It's all I ever seem to get in return.
>>644797 >Millenial discover insults as a cheap way to mock and express angry. inb4 ok boomer
>>644126 Actual question, how do you appropriately respond to people who made bad takes, double down on it, then ignore all of your counter arguments and continue to post the same terrible copy-and-pasted point other than calling them a retard? You just can’t get pissy and say you end the discussion.
>>644820 >being a ruthless critic of all that exists you are such a larper lmaooo you need to just shut up and step down from your tower you schizo fuck
>>644108 This shit, along with opposition to free speech in general, is a COINTELPRO strategy to stifle any sort of discourse on the left and make sure it stays within the bounds of what is acceptable to capital. That's not to say that EVERYONE who pulls this shit is a fed, of course, just that they actively encourage it, there are plenty of narcissists and radlib control freaks who are happy to go along with it in order to boost their social standing and potentially advance their careers. >>644126 There's no reason you can't do both at the same time, and it will be a cold day in hell before I let you cretins take away the obvious pun for bullying the tradcaths. >>644140 Don't just bully them, call them out for what they are: cops, or useful idiots to cops https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
>>644108 Mostly because they have a degree of self control and dont think its edgy to throw around slurs, or even really funny, but just kinda crass and showing of a lack of empathy. Generally I take excessive slurs as more of a mark of someone who spends too much time online in a bad word hugbox than someone who organizes and knows the appropriate social limits of language. Plus it's like, a seconds worth of effort to police your own language, so it's not like it's a communication barrier.
>>644253 Idea policing > tone policing
Banning shit because it upsets you is an awful idea, and is a slippery slope that will fuck the left in the long run. The fact that anyone on the has not learned this lesson yet is stunning.
Let's just make things clear: Using insults as arguments =/= Insulting to mock after refuting consequently the argument of a stubborn asshat. Libs makes equal that equation in a some sort of idpol shit, like banning the f from fun in online debates.
That's a part of a degeneration of the western left, i think. This goes hand-in-hand with promotion of rights of trans and fags in capitalist society. They are just trying to implement changes in the superstructure without understanding, that they actually need to change the mode of production to make anything meaningful.
>>644744 the overall content of this post is correct, but what OP is writing about is the point where words that aren't slurs to anyone but hardcore wokies earn call outs "I think that idea is pretty stupid" is lowbrow but normal speech, the sort of shit you can expect when you go talk to normal people. Launching a struggle session on some unsuspecting member of public over that phrase would be pretty stupid
>>644679 >anon has chuunibyou
>>644108 It's because they have some inner lib. They forget that to be marxist is to unite under labor, not some stupid fucking identity. The alt-right sadly has capitalized on this (pun intended, lel). Has painted the "left" as "LGBT" and "SJW". These types of idiotic communists should yeet the left and go back to reddit under their faggoty "liberalism" board where they're all inclusive and focus more on not hurting eachothers feelings than actually discussing dialogue. Me and you both know that context matters, but to a stupid faggot lib; the word alone is enough to "cancel" the discussion.
>>645404 So in other words They are emotionally and mentally weak
>>645435 Worse, they masquerade as the left and "libs" think that communism is some bullshit ideal about not hurting every little identities feelings. When in reality is, we dont care about the persons identity at all (yes we know there are womens rights issues, you we know there is racism issues). But, ultimately, these issues are created by the fucking state and the bougie class; so you fix them by smashing the state, not giving the state more fucking power and legitimizing it.
>>644858 chomsky's a faggot but I suppose a stuck clock is right twice a day
>>644726 >I don't hate disabled people cringe. Fuck wheelies
>>644108 I use retarded only to reactionaries, otherwise I avoid it but I don't adhere to hyper-sensivity to every other term because people are actually stupid and you have to call them that way, I am also stupid sometimes, it's ok imho.
>>645469 The bolsceviks had protections in their first program, retard
>>645480 >B-but Lenin liked wheelies!!11!! so? Also I was joking retard.
>>645483 then have a nice day comrade
>>645457 he’s dumb for being an anti-Marxist but his criticisms of the US government are all correct.
Has "anxiety" taken over (was aspergers before that yes, or have I missed something?) as the new fave self diagnosis thing among the online "emo" crowd?
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>>645483 Joke all you want, it's a board for serious political discussions. Just go ahead, have a gay old time joking. It's not like you could go joke on /GET/. Jeez, why don't you just spam red text and make a bunch of Qboomer-tier conspiracy threads while you're at it just for laughs. Yeah, i like to crack the wine out, sit down in my chair and read JOKES on a website specifically dedicated to political THEORY.
>>644532 Interesting, have you stopped beating your wife yet?
>>645509 if you don't have some kind of anxiety disorder under late capitalist precarity you are mentally ill.
>>645455 Ngl but I hope these faggots really experience the revolutionary war they think they want if they freak out over someone saying the meanie word so hard. These people are so fucking weak I’d be beyond indifferent if they died, I’d be celebratory.
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>>644126 >every internet argument has to be some well written well researched reddit tier cherry picked pseudo intellectual bullshit retard
>>644679 >>644708 when are you are you going to give up on life and die horribly in a fire you mega-contrarian faggot
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>>644935 Allowing LGBTQ+ people equal rights under the law and militating against their persecution is absolutely a meaningful superstructural change even if does nothing about the base. That is not an appeal to identity politics; that is an acknowledgement of the material consequences that legal protection and cultural change has on the lives of millions, and the recognition that we can do more than one thing at a time. The only reason why you can seriously say that is because you do not experience that hell on a regular basis. That is called "privilege", but of course even pointing that out will trigger you into a hysterical fit of rage because your approach to these issues is fundamentally identical to that of any alt-right or MAGA-hatted reactionary. If you have a problem with that, then you should go back to /pol/ and take your degeneracy theory with you because you clearly do not give a fuck about anyone or anything other than your race war "class war" boogaloo fantasies. >>645564 I can't beat what I don't have. It's surprising that you took a break from grooming and molesting children to shitpost on this board, though. >>646397 I am as much a contrarian as Marx was. If you have a problem with being criticised, then it seems the problem here is you. Keep your temper tantrum to yourself; it comes across as wanting to actively degrade the quality of this board.
>>646433 >believing in quality >On the internet >Especially on a Vietnamese rice farming tutorial message board How embarassing
>>646433 hoboposter right, yet again. btw, you didn't respond to my scathing critique
>>645514 Seethe harder opportunist.
>>645514 This is why people see leftists online as retarded teenage LARPERs and pseudo intellectuals
>>644848 Those people are just belligerent retards/idiots/whatever other ableist slur and there really is no answer to them other than to point out they're arguing disingenuously and against any reason. If you don't have the ability to say as much because it's "crass" then you kind of lose the ability to dismiss these people. And it's not even an "I disagree and we're just not going to get anywhere on this topic" thing because someone who's like this about one thing is usually like it about a lot of things, and sometimes you have good cause to point it out so people don't waste their time with someone like that.
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>>644848 "You have been repeatedly criticised for your shoddy analyses and incompetent grasp on these topics throughout your time here, yet all you continue to do is repeat them in the hope that those who were not around for those refutations will be duped into believing you have any credibility left now. You are, at best, being obstinate toward any open and honest discussion of these topics that assumes your fallibility; if you are not altogether being bigoted and disingenuous. And I will continue to call you out for this until you either make the effort to persuasively defend or modify your claims, or stop pushing them altogether." This response only works if you actually bothered to engage them, criticise them, and refute them, though if you have then you can then proceed to just copy and paste those replies and quote yourself in response to their copypasta. Explicitly referring back to this history and exposing their long pattern of abuse for all to see is how to competently address these situations. Yes, doing so takes effort, but substituting crass bullying and insults in its place will invariably result in deteriorating the quality of the space altogether. If you want to preserve the quality and integrity of the space without risking your own place in it while militating against those seeking to exploit their access to it, then you need to take the time and make the effort to actually do so in a way that demonstrates maturity, competence, and a dogged commitment even in the face of those who seek to malign you. That is how you discredit someone, rather than just malign them too. Otherwise, you will ultimately just contribute to the depreciation of that space and the degradation of the discourse. That is why such antisocial behaviour is considered antisocial, since it completely disregards the social consequences of that behaviour, whether it be the personal and social risks involved in behaving that way or the precedents it sets or what it sacrifices about the space for the sake of expedience. Quite frankly, the fact that this is not obvious seems to suggest a complete inexperience with mature discussion and unfamiliarity with more civil discursive environments. The way you handle those whose opinions you do not like is to explain why you do not to them. If they continue unchanged, then you continue to criticise them and begin to collate evidence of their disruptive patterns in the space to routinely expose them whenever they persist behaving that way. You do not simply call them a "retard" and think you really showed them, awaiting the applause to come rumbling in; and you should not be surprised when others do not take kindly to such behaviour even if they agree with you and want this person to shut up, since your doing so is an attack on the quality of the discourse as a whole and not just this particular nuisance. Chan culture is some of the most abjectly toxic and corrosive in all the Internet. It is something that channers should seek to resist, but most do not and so it continues to fester. When you import this chan mentality into spaces where such behaviour is rightly considered contemptuous, expect to be called out for this. Thinking you can get away with verbally abusing others like you do anonymously on the chans anywhere else online (and especially offline) is as socially oblivious and autistic as thinking that telling your sister to stop being a "nigger faggot" when she won't stop fidgeting in the pew during the church sermon is how to properly handle the situation.
>>646569 you don't talk to anyone either you fucking larping ass faggot, everybody insults one another by telling their brother or sister to STFU or GTFO
>>646582 t. socially incompetent manchild Excuse me: t. nigger faggot
>>646649 Sorry you're still retarded and possibly Jewish
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>>646714 Requiescat in poena, socially incompetent manchild. Such is the life -- and death -- of those who choose to sow nothing but contempt: you eventually reap a miserable harvest and taste its bitter seeds. It is precisely this that I am warning against; those who do not heed it will suffer its consequences, even if those consequences are the ruination of the very spaces you call home.
>>647035 This was a stray shitposting nazi, not a leftypoler. You think very little of us :`(
>>647045 And yet he posts here all day every day.
>>644503 I know who you are, and I am still waiting. Also based
>>647045 Were it not for the "Jewish" addition (that could have easily been ironic), could you have honestly told the difference? If so, then I am eager to learn how you have cultivated such a sixth sense. If not, then now you see what I mean. That is my point: when the garb is stripped away, it is impossible to tell them apart. If anything, what I display is disappointment in failing to live up to one's potential here. Rather than thinking so little of the denizens of this board, I think so much of them that I still mourn every day how impoverished the discursive quality here remains. I think better of the denizens here, yet I am overwhelmingly despised for doing so. Do you think the shitposters here calling you "retard" and "faggot" and telling you to drink bleach or commit rope or slit your wrists think much of you or anyone else here? Do you think they give a fuck about the quality of this board? When interrogated about precisely that, they will explicitly tell you they do not! And do so with pride! So no, you have me fundamentally mistaken: I say what I do precisely because I care and think better of this board, not because I do not. I do not lament those on /pol/ for their behaviour and entreat them to be better; I already concluded long ago that they are irredeemably lost and those who may some day escape those mental hellscapes will do so entirely without intent. I still return here, day after day, futilely attempting to singlehandedly lift this board up to my level even though I do not try the same on /pol/. Perhaps I should conclude the same about here as I have about there (as my critiques here already suggest), and have in the past (which is why my recent return comes after years away from here), but I am still apparently deluded enough to appeal once again to the potential of those here. Eventually, I will be proven wrong so thoroughly -- or banned so utterly -- that I will depart once again. Perhaps then you can tell me that I think so little of you all. But now is not then -- at least, not yet.
>>647097 Of course anon, how couldn’t I see it before? you’re just so special and great and perfect. What a savior you are! This is totally not an unhealthy complex or anything
>>647097 ;-;7 <3 <3
>>647105 They rejected Jesus too you know
>>647097 This type of savior complex isn't exactly healthy.
>>647097 Because he's the hero /leftypol/ deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight."
All of you seem to forget about a relevant fact: the typical SJW retard isn't a woman. It's usually a tranny faggot that spends 24/7 on r/socialism. Whenever someone starts bitching about "brocialists" or "class reductionism", you bet your ass it's a fucking tranny.
>>647121 There used to be women who'd talk that way, but then they all got kicked out of there for being TERFs now matter how supportive they were of trans issues
>>647097 I rarely post on this board and I just do lurking but holy shit, you are the most insufferable poster on the whole site by fucking far. Stop being here for hours if you have such a low esteem for this board's userbase. Absolute pretentious asshole.
>>647127 Even most of trans twitter doesn't talk that way anymore
>>647121 transvestites are 0.1% of the population, if you think they’re a real problem you’re a schizo
>>646433 >That is called "privilege" Yes, how did you know that i'm a priviliged third-worlder living from paycheck to paycheck. >If you have a problem with that, then you should go back to /pol/ and take your degeneracy theory I did not say that they are degenerates. I said that promoting their problems as equally important as the problems of 90% of population is infuriating for the said 90%. It just disperses the movement. >Allowing LGBTQ+ people equal rights under the law and militating against their persecution is absolutely a meaningful superstructural change In no way this is a "meaningul change". It doesn't change their lifes fundamentally. Transsexuals still have higher suicide rates and lower quality of life. I guess it may be meaningul for gay to be able lo marry legally, but they are still being fucked over by the capitalists.
>>647121 This might be personally fulfilling to believe in, but its generally the opposite of true. Most radlibs are usually unfortunately straight white people who have picked up lingo or twitter opinions from elsewhere and now use them as a way to feel like they are doing something progressive. Source: Having known people in real life who did so
>>647121 >hurr durr tranny bad hurr durr stop blaming "the radlib tranny" for the shift of discourse of the left, the idea of an army of online trannies that exist to divert the left's discourse is fucking ridiculous and any communist should know better.
>>647142 >straight white people It's extremely problematic of you to assume that when they probably identify as nonbinary lesbians
>>644108 I believe that in civilized conversation, using such terminology would be quite provocative and offensive for no reason. Casually it can still be used as well as when properly applicable I.E. Retarded Detonation Fuse or something. >>644126 >thread In the words of Bell, "If you can't hav a conversation without resorting to slurs, you have no personality"
>>647144 It's The Jew of the incel. They're everywhere and nowhere. Weak yet omnipotent. Stupid yet deviously clever.
>>647149 >It's extremely problematic of you to assume that when they probably identify as nonbinary lesbians You would think they would identify as something in public, but generally no. Its usually lib takes they heard from somewhere else with the statement "I know I'm white/straight, but.." inserted somewhere as some kind of clarification. They are usually also older. The two trans people I ever knew in real life was a person when I went to school who ideology hopped harder then even your average /pol/yp and who browsed halfchan religiously (went from a metal head with a slight meme soviet bias to a hard wehraboo to a trans wehraboo to a trad catholic trans wehraboo to a /biz/ poster) and a hard libertarian "communist libs btfo lol" Ben Shapiro watching type who bought the "we can't afford socialized healthcare, how are we going to pay for it!" meme
>>647097 thanks for putting flag and pictures so that I easily can spot which posts to ignore. your perfect society of only you will be the best there was cos then everyone in it is the perfect human being
>>647187 And yet you still stop and take the time to respond with a dumb shitpost. Please get a trip so I can hide your posts.
>>647193 the only thing you care about is making yourself feel superior than a bunch of shitposters on a albanian bike repair forum now piss off trying to masquerade your superiority complex as a noble deed.
>>647193 actually reading even a few sentences infuriates me >akschuly I saved lives >I simply care that is some tumblr tier brain damage and mental gymnastics. >I don't feel superior >you see I save life's >it's just that I can't stop caring >I'm simply the best person >everyone should be like me, perfect society kinda the leftypol equivalent of trump style narcissism jerk-off via internet
>>647193 >Putting aside the whole "you are uncritically using bourgeois hegemonic psychiatry to medicalise prosocial behaviour" critique, Savior complex is folk psychology lad
>>647121 nobody likes you or wants to hear your reactionary drivel
>>644679 Jesus you really are the most pretentious, self-absorbed autist on this god-forsaken website, aren't you? Please GTFO, your posts are retarded and devoid of any substance.
>>644503 >Anarkiddy is a retarded lib Every single time.
>>647263 You're curing me of a lot of spooks. Thanks anon. I still disagree with your points about organization, but all of your posts provide food for thought.
>>647263 >better than being a quadriplegic poor "third-worlder", or a trans immigrant "third-worlder" Okay, in this sense i am "priviliged". I did not imply that crippled people, both mentally and physically, should not be treated differently. I meant, that any change under capitalism would be superficial or temporal. Gay rights, transsexual's rights etc are just a pittance from the ruling class. Even if a real communist was elected these are the only socialistic changes that would be allowed. If he tries to implement more fundamental changes, he will face the fate of Allende. >a homosexual being thrown off a roof in Afghanistan is fundamentally less important than a proletarian member of the labour aristocracy in New York having their labour-time stolen by their boss Yes, human lives are indeed unequal. My death would not be as detrimental to the workers' struggle as the death of the revolutionary leader, for example.
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>>647204 >>647214 The mere fact that you find it impossible to fathom how someone can both care and save lives without considering themselves to be superior or a saviour just speaks to how pathologically narcissistic you are. You imagine that, if in my place and with my record and conducting yourself in the way I do, you would be so self-absorbed and blindingly arrogant that the only motivation for caring about others is to aggrandise your own fragile ego. That alone reveals the poverty of your compassion, your total lack of care. You have failed to see me; you only see yourself. That is why I described myself as a mirror, not a saviour: I reflect what you think of yourself and show you the only one who can be your saviour.
>>646433 Lgbtbbq inserting itself into leftist is a cointelpro operation. It inevitably causes heavy division and distraction because like it or not, the ridiculous demands of some few percent of the population are not accepted widely and forcing it on everyone else is just ensuring you can never get a coherent workers' movement. You don't have to hate them you just have to remind them that hey, it's fine if you do this, but you need to keep it out of leftist organizations because all it does is distract from class issues.
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>>647121 go to bed
>>647331 You say this because it makes you feel good and because it gels with what you've read on /pol/, not because it reflects the realities of organization.
>>647305 Not an "anarkiddy", not a "lib", and not an anticommunist like you. >>647310 At least I have not been totally useless here. >>647322 Yes, in that sense you are privileged because that is what being privileged means: it is an unmarked mark, the assumed default that the privileged do not notice but those who lack it do. At some level, everyone is privileged relative to someone else; this is what allows for appeals to relative privation, but this is also what reveals the multidimensionality of privation -- and its apparent bottomlessness. I agree that such changes can be "superficial" and "temporal", though I dispute that they necessarily are (given that such superstructural reforms are often implemented to protect productive relations, they tend to persist). Nonetheless, their potential transience do not invalidate their worthiness as pursuits, especially when basic transformations fundamentally cannot provide such changes. Just as fundamental superstructural transformations can only be secured with corresponding basic ones, so too is the contrariwise the case: without a corresponding superstructure to reinforce the base, those new basic relations will invariably deform and degenerate as the stratification in the superstructure is reified and reflected into the base. Expecting basic transformations to simply wash away the prior superstructure mistakes the nature of subsumption, both fundamentally and as merely a basic process. Basic and superstructural artifacts of prior modes are not merely erased under capitalism, but are in fact subsumed and sublated into the new system; their abolition are not guaranteed and only occur when deliberate social effort is made to accomplish it. That is why capitalism has both formally and really subsumed the conditions of prior feudal societies, both basic and superstructural, whether it be the peasantry and the rent they paid (rural proletariat and rent/taxes) or the vassal's oath of fealty and homage to their lord (marriage vows, federalism, modern multinational military alliances, and multiparty trade agreements). It moreover treats modal transformations and their subsumptive processes as being purely basic, which ignores the long history of feudal societies being constructed through ideological campaigns and legal mandates by the aristocracy to subsume freed slaves and free peasants into serfdom (and the superstructural origins of the feudal relations between lords and serfs); and the ideological subsumption of early capitalist relations in mercantilism back into feudal forms. In a simple Marxist historiographical model of modal transformations, these peculiarities cannot be explained, which is why such simple models are best abandoned, if only for more sophisticated versions and revisions of it. You are deploying a motte-and-bailey argument to back out of your prior claim that instances of oppression and exploitation vary in their fundamental importance (which is untenable and refuted) and substitute in its stead the claim that certain people vary in their relative importance to particular causes. Even that is untenable, however, because it ultimately devalues your life when compared to the life of another (especially a "leader"), which is ultimately fascistic and instrumentalises human existence. Just because the death of a "revolutionary leader" may be a greater loss to a given movement than you may be in some purely strategic/utilitarian calculus, such calculations instrumentalise all involved and divests them of all value except in the extent to which they serve a particular cause. Not only is that literally spooky and precisely what Stirner was talking about regarding spooks, but it misses the point entirely of what the cause is about and who it is for if your interests are at all vested in it. I think you should think better of all involved here, since your current orientation is a passively nihilist devaluation of all values: it devalues you as just an instrument of The Struggle™, it devalues your "leader" as just an instrument of The Struggle™, it devalues The Struggle™ by instrumentalising you (for whom The Struggle™ ostensibly is even being had), and it devalues the struggles of others by erasing them under the totalising importance of yours. >>647331 Paranoia is fascist and you are doing fascist work through it. You are attempting to characterise the inclusion of these manifold struggles and their manifold dimensions as divisive merely because they pluralise The Struggle™, only to use this canard to divide these solidarity-based and unification-seeking abolitionist efforts because you think including these marginalised forms of oppression and exploitation dilute efforts toward The Struggle™ that matters to you, as if you are more important than they are. For the overwhelming majority of society, both local and global, communism amounts to the absolute most "ridiculous" and profound "demand" possible -- and not only because communism necessarily subsumes all these struggles under the unified real movement which abolishes the present state of things. It is a position maintained by "some few percent of the population" which is "not accepted widely", so "forcing it on everyone else is just ensuring you can never get a coherent workers' movement." Do you not see how absurd that is? Either communism is a total abolitionist movement or it is not. If you believe it is not, then you are fundamentally and radically departing from any semblance of the communism Marx talked about and so you believe in a fundamentally anti-Marxist conception of communism. But of course, what you want is not communism because you are an anticommunist who opposes any attempt at universalising the real movement and taking seriously its character as the abolition of the present state of things. What you want are insular and self-similar Party meetings where you can eternally defer communism as a far-future utopia and cosplay as a working class hero with your fellow death cultists without any disruption or dissent or critique to frustrate your "democratic" centralism and expose you for the dead-end controlled opposition at the left wing of Capital that you really are. Such "wreckers" bring nothing but bad news for you and your crew, since they are there to abolish the present state of things and that means you and your Party, too.
>>644126 Retard
>>646433 >Allowing LGBTQ+ people equal rights under the law and militating against their persecution is absolutely a meaningful superstructural change Embarrassing.
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>>644740 Utterly Solopsistic
>>647680 >At some level, everyone is privileged relative to someone else good grief this is just embarrassing that privilege hierarchy you are trying to use does not really work for the real world.
>>647510 I say this because time and time again it's proven true. Find any leftist movement or organization and I'll find you a leftist movement or organization cooped and neutralized by idpol, most often tranny idpol. >>647680 You are making it out to be as if the ever changing lgbt demands have ANYTHING to do with communism. When you can't hold a simple meeting because someone freaked out and crashed it over muh pronouns or whatever, how can you expect to get anywhere? The instant the focus deviates from class, it becomes liberal. You see this all the time
>>648056 I don't understand what point you're trying to make with those pictures.
>>647280 Why do you respond with same fucking stock response every time? it's always the same fucking words: >muh troll >muh pol >muh reactionary >muh anticommunist Every. Fucking. Time. It's like I'm listening to a broken record, repeating the same thing over and over and over again. And I called your posts devoid of substance because they are. You vomit word salad and dress it in pretentious language, and yet your arguments are shallow and trite, serving no other purpose than to derail the discussion and inflate your own massive ego. And you wonder why everyone here is fucking tired of your autism.
I honestly don't think its even all that hard to get down to brass tacks in all this, so I wanted to make a few simple points. First, I've been on chans since I was an edgy kid and since then I've grown up. Meaning, it used to be funny as a thirteen year old calling people faggot but that shit gets old. So does mindlessly spamming the n word, its not funny in call of duty lobbies and its not funny here. Saying its "chan culture" is the biggest fucking cop out. I'm not going to say like I used to a couple years ago that "if this place wants to become a better place for leftist discussion" or whatever but this shit needs to go plain and simple. Can we shed the identity of a "chan board" and just be a leftist discussion board that happens to be an imageboard and not need to spaz out if you don't say the n word an allotted amount of times? Second, I fall into it too and I need to stop but there has to be a middle ground between reflexively calling someone a retard because you disagree and policing people for the smallest words like dumb (as r/socialism does). There are a myriad of reasons just like the long winded guy up there alluded to, but when you're talking to working class people the words dumb and stupid are going to come up and speaking in their lexicon is expected. I'm a working class person and I say that stuff now. But I am starting to come around to the idea that saying something is "retarded" or calling someone a retard needs to stop, and I'm alright admitting this after thirty years of life. I've met disabled people and I wouldn't use the word around them and I don't see why I should away from them. I think its just being a human being. Happy to discuss though why the words stupid or slow should be phased out, I think they have evolved a completely different identity than ascribing to actual mental disability. Third, idpol is a real divider and you guys up there are arguing about it so I'll just say talk about it. Saying trans people shouldn't be persecuted for being trans is a socialist argument. Saying trans people should have "rights" as laid out in the very material and real conditions we live (a liberal capitalist system) in also a true, socialist argument. Saying trans "rights" is ultimately a red herring, and that a trans identity is a false identity as Marx describes in "On The Jewish Question" is also a socialist argument. But you're stupid if you think saying this out loud in public because you want to be right is a good thing in today's world where socialism inherently attracts the most fringe, downtrodden people including trans people. In conclusion, I do think a lot of you simply want to keep doing what you do and that includes insulting other people reflexively and saying the n-word. There has to be a middle ground though between r/socialism and /pol/ with leftist characteristics.
>>644402 >they're utterly cynical and manipulative crybullies. So weak?
>>648854 >And you wonder why everyone here is fucking tired of your autism. I'm personally tired of your autism. I really wish people would either shut the fuck up or respond to the nihilist like they possess at least 50 IQ. Watching you faggots fill every thread with a hundred "i h8 u grrrrr i'm angery" posts is tiresome.
>>645507 Chomsky isn't an anti-Marxist retard, he's just not afraid to point out the mystical metaphysical bullshit dressed up in highly technical lingo that Marxists like to peddle that has no relevance. For example MUH DIALECTICS
>>650650 For example: not voting for Biden
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>>650664 Because he's anti-violence. His dream may be communism but above all he feels a moral obligation to lessen suffering. He's also a realpolitik guy. This means supporting the lesser evil while ruthlessly criticizing it, whatever it is at the moment. But it also means raising people's political consciousness through talks and seminars (notice that he mostly pays visit not to academic places but to average Joe places). This is literally what Marx was doing. The culmination of Chomsky's actions is average people being radicalized towards the left, leading to civil unrest and concessions in some form from the state. To Chomsky a succdem state is pragmatically speaking better than the other capitalist alternatives (neoliberalism, fascism, ancapistan) and is much more feasible in his lifetime than a socialist revolution.
>>650720 As someone with strong socdem sympathies my contempt for Chomsky's suggestion people should vote for Biden is only heightened. Biden doesn't lead easily to social democracy, the odds are primarily that he'll lead to a re-assertion of neoliberal "normality". The risks in the long term of neoliberalism being restabilized are infinitely worse than those of almost any other scenario. In electoralist terms, Biden winning demonstrates that liberals can still win, allowing them to remain strong in the Democratic party. There is a very real risk of trading the possibility of pushing the democrats left for a one-term presidency that isn't appreciably better than Trump in any area except the amount of seethe from alt-right teenagers.
>>650737 Recall the history of FDR. FDR did not campaign as a succdem. He only enacted succdem policies after pressure from civil unrest. Who is more likely to enact succdem policies from civil unrest, Biden or Trump (who refers to those succdem policies as "socialism" and compares them to Venezuela unironically)?
>>649121 >n-word >nigger synonyms Can't find the original video, so look at the top left corner https://invidio.us/watch?v=xC0Eth9hafE Basically the difference is that "n-word" is upper-class vocabulary or "posh-speak" while "nigger" is lower-class vocabulary, they are both equally racist. What's noteworthy here is the difference how words are used, you can't say "n-word" to somebodies face, because upper-class people tend to insult people in a indirect way, which is reflected in the use of "n-word" that you can use to talk, -about- people, but not, -to- people.
>>650800 Is this a trick question? Because they both do.
>>650800 Sauce on FDR not campaigning as a socdem? the impression i'm getting from a cursory re-read over it is that he already had a reputation as an anti-poverty interventionist from his period as governor and he shoved a reasonable amount through in his first 100 days. (I can and would normally quibble around the edges of this, but up against the unimpressiveness of Biden's non-campaign it doesn't seem necessary.)
>>650720 >Because he's anti-violence. Then he is a coward >To Chomsky a succdem state is pragmatically speaking better than the other capitalist alternatives (neoliberalism, fascism, ancapistan) and is much more feasible in his lifetime than a socialist revolution. Chomsky’s remaining lifetime is short, the World Revolution already occurred in his youth and he was sure to oppose it He will die before the Second World Revolution, but I will not So fuck socdemism And fuck lesser evilism Fuck all forms of liberalism The proletariat rose up to save the world from devastation once and will do so again
>>649121 >Saying trans "rights" is ultimately a red herring, and that a trans identity is a false identity as Marx describes in "On The Jewish Question" is also a socialist argument. can I get the quick run down on this
>>650851 "Roosevelt entered office without a specific set of plans for dealing with the Great Depression—so he improvised as Congress listened to a very wide variety of voices." From the New Deal Wikipedia page. So he didn't campaign for the New Deal.
>>650895 That sounds retarded. Black people aren't real because race is a social construct except social constructs have real material implications because they are treated as a real thing. Class reductionism is for smoothbrains who can't critically think.
>>650893 That's a whole load of words for "why yes, I am in fact a LARPer". Talk the talk but can't walk the walk, eh?
>>650956 >LARPing is when you don’t suck the shriveled cock of some “vote blue no matter who” socdem oldfag who’s really done nothing but write some academic texts that got college kids to question US imperialism while also advising them to basically do nothing <What’s that, the working class waged a world revolution for 70 straight years that nearly succeeded? >Nah fam, they lost in the end, now we know that Liberalism is superior, capitalism is forever, and if we just make a few progressive tweaks here and there eventually the World won’t be shit Get out radlib
>>650985 Chomsky has done more for the left than you or I will ever probably do. But keep LARPing buddy.
>>651005 If that's the case then the left is doomd
>>651006 Yeah, because of LARPers like you who think random acts of terrorism are the pinnacle of socialist cause. The online left was a mistake.
>>651005 >>651008 Vote Blue btw
>>650985 tbh i'd read that as more being that he lacked specific plans but that his heart was still in the right place. (i.e. he was open and receptive to the idea of public works, govt intervention, etc, rather than having to be forced to accept those even though they were against his own principles.)
>>644108 I'm not the language police OP but you sound like a teenager. If I heard a grown man throwing around words like "faggot" and "retard" I'd back away slowly and would assume that person is developmentally stunted.
>>651014 VBARP
>>651021 You could even go so far to say retarded.
>>650809 I disagree, just based on the fact that I interact with black people on a daily basis and obviously race issues come up. When we talk about it, I say n-word and he seems fine with that. Now, I get what you're saying and I actually understand it and agree. But the point is there as high minded theoretical speak which is your post, and then there is the problem of saying this in the real world. All of your fine defenses for you saying the word fall apart when you're getting shouted down by angry black people who now know you as the dude who said the word. So, in effect, why even say this on leftypol? I don't know how many times we'll have this discussion where a bunch of us say "can we not say the fucking n-word" and then the rest of them come out with "but here's x y and z reason why we should". Why does this keep happening? >>650895 I recommend you don't listen to someone like >>650952 because as exactly as his post reveals, they haven't read shit and imagine someone calling someone else smoothbrained because they don't comprehend an idea. Anyway, Marx's "On The Jewish Question" is really a critique on liberal rights. There was this guy, Max Bauer, who was talking about how to help Jews back in Marx's day by implementing a more secular state where Jews could participate and be free despite not being Christians (which apparently was required in this particular state or you were disenfranchised: Prussia). Marx's dad actually was forced to convert to practice law, so he experienced it first hand. Marx took this a bit further and asked if the Jews were really free just by receiving rights from the state. If the state is the one that gives you rights in the first place, are you free? Receiving religious "freedom" does not free you from religion and receiving it from the state doesn't free you either, it just gives more things power of you. The whole work is pretty tongue in cheek actually and Marx had to dress it up as a work against Jewish religion for it to pass censors, but his point goes on: what is true freedom? Marx is alluding to the fact that until Jews aren't Jews and are just people, freed from religion and other bonds (COUGH: CAPITALISM) no one is free. So anyway, to relate this to trans people just because the state says you won't be discriminated against if you're trans doesn't mean you're free. To be free is to not be trans. To be free is to be trans without actually having to say or identify as trans because you're just a fucking person and chiefly to be living economically free without capitalism. To be free as a black person isn't to be given civil rights, its to be free of the title of black person and simply be an individual (again, free from capitalism implied). So, again, trans/black/identity/religion are red herrings for civil rights. To be free is to be free from these identities because many of you don't say this enough: socialism is the most individually focused forms of thought that exist. The focus is on the individual to be free to be who they. But again, I wouldn't just come out and say like some of you knuckleheads in this thread: you're not trans, its a red herring, idpol is dumb! Of course you wouldn't say this in public, of course when around people who haven't been properly brought up to speed you'd say yes, in fact socialists are in arms with you in the fight for trans rights. But there's a bigger goal... etc, etc. We can't even get over the fight to stop saying the n-word here though, so what the fuck.
Do you have nothing better to complain about?
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>>644108 I tried posting at the socialism sub on Reddit and used the phrase "stupid ideology," when talking about neoliberalism, and the autobot blocked my post. Asked a moderator to allow the post and told him the autobot was childish, but he said "No, you shouldn't use ableist language." I haven't posted on their stupid sub since then.
>>651005 >Chomsky has done more for the left than you or I will ever probably do Chomsky worked for military intelligence to facilitate killing third worlders, based and leftistpilled
>>652117 good god i'm so glad i never went there, christ that's retarded
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>>644149 I think these Reddit moderators must be actual retards, and not just in the slang sense. They got called stupid and idiot at school, because they were, and never got over that bullying. They make the rest of us look so bad, it's more damaging than a CIA op. They definitely wouldn't ever be revolutionaries, and would probably run home crying if a union leader, their boss, or a police officer said "You don't even know what you're talking about," to them during a strike.
>>644112 I still reflexively cringe a little every time I heard the word "problematic" even in contexts that have nothing to do with race/gender/whatever
>>652293 I'm getting used to it. Not triggering black people, Latinos, etc, because you were sensitive enough to choose less offensive words is a small price to pay for getting them to talk with you long enough to be awakened to the universal class struggle.
>>653069 Oh yeah I maintain human decency and all but every time I hear the word problematic I flash back to my Shit Reddit Says days and grimace a little bit
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>>644108 >Mind you this is the same segment of commies that are usually deeply mentally ill with "muh anxiety" "can't leave the house" etc. This is soo true its painful. The issue is that they have much online clout and therefore can leverage it in groups, cross them and be cancelled.
>>649121 I vigorously agree with the first and second points. I still struggle, too, including verbally and in daily life, but I at least refrain from doing so around those who are not themselves intimately familiar with (and often veterans of) this toxic "chan culture". On the third point: Identity politics is not just a purely superstructural phenomenon; identities formed in the superstructure out of the base also exist and this board pushes that identity politics all the time, especially workerist bollocks and "working class" / proletariat worship. Beyond that, this board is just as idpol-ridden as any other. Notice how I don't focus much on identity politics or talk about it in purely identitarian terms even when I do; that is because I am concretely against identity (from a Stirnerian / Deleuzian / post-left perspective), despite curiously not sharing the rabid "anti-idpol" sentimentality. Perhaps that is because all this "anti-idpol" bollocks is itself just concentrated idpol in denial. But even I do not pretend to be pure from any politics of identity, for I know there is no escape from identity (for identity is ideology in the personal). So, if you are against identity politics for whatever reason, you must understand that it is universal and found here at home, too, where it is some of the most rabid -- more rabid than even on reddit. Yes, in a sense identity politics can be divisive, but also unifying. It depends on how it is used. In my experience, what ultimately generates the division in many idpol discourses is the identity policing that is often found among those who resist the idpol of the claimant or critic. Without that, the divisive capacity of idpol largely falls apart because there is no basis upon which to divide a group on identity grounds that does not amount to racist/sexist/whatever segregationist or separatist ideology. As for the latter, that should simply be called out as reactionary whenever it arises. (For those of you reading who dislike multiculturalism for whatever reason, understand that this is not an endorsement for multiculturalism per se, just an opposition to segregationist and separatist ideology and advocacy as reactionary.) Marx's critique of liberal rights, identity, and freedom in "On the Jewish Question" is commendable, though I personally prefer Stirner's critique as much more radical (and not so bound up in antisemitic misreadings). I have and had very close trans friends who are also Stirnerians. They understand that their trans identity is a spook; they are also postgenderists, and so understand their gender (and indeed their sex!) to be spooks as well. These realisations do not erase their trans experience as lived in this world, however, not least because the trans experience is as much a socially constructed hellscape as it is an internally inflected one, since none of us can wear whatever we want or act however we please or modify our bodies in any way we please without being policed and harassed and threatened with spooks such as gender, sex, and their associated norms. Moreover, these trans people would very much prefer to have rights given to them by the state, even though they want to abolish the state, because being given liberal "freedom" is better than not even having that, even though they want to be free (and take that freedom) in a radically more profound sense. What this means is that trans rights and trans issues, indeed all identity politics, do not amount to "red herrings". They amount to real struggles which are just as real as any basic class struggle because they are coconstitutive social realities that are lived every single day. The fact that they are superstructural phenomena -- the fact that they are spooks, fictions hallucinated by the mind -- do not grant them a level of unreality that can be safely disregarded as secondary to class because their social reality in the present material conditions has equally real present material consequences, such as those you implicitly acknowledged and I explicitly stated. Thus, any real movement which seeks to abolish the present state of things must wage a totally abolitionist war -- a war of all against all, culture war and not just class war -- if we are to totally abolish these things and transform society into something radically new. >>650809 "N-word" is just a way of euphemising a taboo term that fails to respect the use-mention distinction. If I am mentioning "nigger", then I am not using it, nigger. (And even my use may not be sincere.) (Counterargument: The use-mention distinction itself fails to reckon with the power of even mentioning words in shaping and normalising thoughts and values, and so it alone may not justify opposing the censorship of certain terms.) In practice, I generally do not even mention the word, especially offline and rarely on chans, because I understand doing so to be socially counterproductive in virtually every instance. But I frankly would rather live in a world that understands the use-mention distinction than one in which I need to police my language based on a failure to do so. I would rather live in a world in which everyone agrees that using "nigger" is bad and so is policed into "n-word" than one in which "nigger" is still used, though. >>650952 Basically this, though I'm not sure VeteranTankie meant it exactly that way. But yes: spooks are not real, but those possessed by them are, and they will make real these spooks through that possession. When living in a world haunted by countless spooks, you must possess spooks without being possessed by them, to wield them as tools to navigate this spooky world like a spectral mask for its faceless wearer. While I am sympathetic to the old adage that the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house (though I understand Land disagrees with this through, among other reasons, his reading of Marx's understanding of capitalism as a destructive force against all traditions and values), I find useful Judith Butler's framing of notions such as gender as tools whose infinite proliferation and differentiation can undermine the very foundations upon which they are naturalised, thereby opening the means whereby they can be abolished altogether: it is difficult to militate against gender in a world that has naturalised only two and bound it to sex, but much easier when there is a rich plethora of genders all of whom lack any naturalised component.
>>651934 I am immensely surprised and vindicated that you see "On the Jewish Question" as almost satirical and parodical, too, since that is something I have been insisting for the longest time and seemed to be the only one doing so. I think that the work must be read in much the same way one must read Machiavelli's The Prince and Stirner's The Unique and Its Property: seriously but not literally, with both levity and gravity, as both a parody and as reality. Do you also read Marx's favourable quoting of Münzer in "On the Jewish Question" that "the creatures, too, must become free" as indicative of Marx's concern for animals and reveals that he understood communism to be more than just about humans (i.e., it is meant to free all animals, too)? Although Marx never really wrote much about non-human animals, and what he did write about them instrumentalised them, I yearn for the day a new letter or unpublished essay surfaces in which Marx talks explicitly about animal welfare and the place of animal freedom in communism. Alas, all I have are Marxist readings of Marx which explore it, such as the following: https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/994/animal-liberation-and-marxism/ https://www.marxists.org/subject/marxmyths/lawrence-wilde/article.htm I know this is off-topic, but I would like at least a reply to satisfy my curiosity because I have never before encountered someone (outside of close and like-minded friends) who had such a similar reading of Marx's "On the Jewish Question' as I do, so please indulge me at least that. If I could send a private message, I would. More to the point, I nonetheless insist that these are not "red herrings" so much as they are "necessary but insufficient". I take after Luxemburg's approach to reform and revolution in this sense (though I personally reject revolution as bourgeois and advocate Stirnerian insurrection). So, trans rights and trans liberation are necessary but alone insufficient for freedom and liberation; it is not a "red herring" because it does not distract us from the real movement, but rather constitutes part of the tract thereof. Otherwise, I agree. And many of the trans people I associate(d) with do, too, though both they and I know how much of a minority we are. Why is it that it seems all the tankie-flags and tankie posters are the most sympathetic to my own critiques and perspectives as an anti-organisational leftcom/ancom/post-left insurrectionary communist? I keep getting praise from tankie posters (even if it's just "I disagree with you but you at least make interesting points") and find myself agreeing with a tankie poster! Has this board degraded so much that tankies are now the intellectual vanguard?! (I kid, but I also do not.) Then again, tankies were much worse years ago than they are now. Maybe the old Soviet guard finally dropped the flag and those who remain are the ones worth a damn? Very strange times. >>653220 Deeply problematic relation to the term.
>>644727 They should ban the word smart, because that's ableist too.
>>653906 Nigga who do you think will read all this shit?
>>659647 It's like one or two pages. Have you read a book before?
>>659729 black flag poster takes 1000 words to describe simple-ass concepts and is an insufferable anarcracker
>>659736 >waaah I disagree.
>>659729 The reason I’m not reading paragraphs of nothing from people like particularly black flag on chans is because it’s honestly less of a waste of my time to just read a book
Words for stupidity especially should not be considered slurs. >But those poor stupid people can't help it! Or they're smart in different ways! Stupidity is the reason that the dark ages up until recently were full of torture, death, blind belief and misery. It is the greatest evil we've ever faced. Its the reason we keep inventing useless products and convincing ourselves we need them to keep a disgusting social/economic order in place.
>>660572 Retarded is offensively stupid. Stupid is naively stupid. Idiot is assholean stupid. I usually don't call people slurs, much less IRL. I call their ideas stupid maybe, and not usually, but not people. That is just mean and nonconstructive. It makes the other person instantly stop listening and open to discussion. Insulting ideas is much nice when you don't use any slurs and you deconstruct them elegantly. If the party who dealt the retarded comment is not there, then there is no use in abstaining from slurring.
Attacking things as idiotic, stupid, etc is bad is because it maintains this cult of intellect or education-as-virtue. That isn't to say that education isn't a virtue - that people shouldn't strive to educate themselves - it is to say that we have a cult where education is used as a marker of status and merit in and of itself rather than for the purposes of the education given. A world where the "highly educated" economist feels himself superior to the stupid carpenter, despite the fact the economist couldn't empirically predict his way out of a paper bag. The carpenter has a lot of knowledge, but he isn't considered "educated" and is viewed as lower value as a result. Think about it: what do liberals get off on, more than anything else? Moral virtue? No. Being smarter than you. They value being smarter than others above all else. They would prefer being smarter than you to being correct. Indeed sometimes they'll just glibly put it that because they're smarter than you they're correct. Discussions about general intelligence aside, this tendency is errant: I would prefer to be operated on by the world's stupidest qualified doctor than the world's smartest polymath physicist/musician/stunt pilot. The latter man is smarter and more educated, but he has no domain specific knowledge. If he cuts me open, all of the "education" in the world isn't going to stop him butchering my organs for want of domain specific knowledge. "Intelligence" and "Education" as supposedly generalizable commodities is one of the worst parts of the managerial meritocracy (in the original, negative sense of that world) under which we now live.
>>660572 >Its the reason we keep inventing useless products and convincing ourselves we need them to keep a disgusting social/economic order in place. No, this is wrong. Smart people make those products. Huge swathes of the current economy exist for smart people to prey on stupid (and generally poor) people. Think payday loans, think the ridiculous complexity of government forms (creating a market for individual accountants or ensuring that people who need welfare can't get it because they'll tick the wrong boxes.), think gambling. It wasn't an idiot who realized that people will round a .49 probability of a win up to .50 and throw their money into your pockets 51% of the time. Hell, it wasn't idiots writing apologia for the bible or the repression of new ideas, again it was smart people. The only way you can plausibly blame stupid people is where you're making excuses for a smart person: "No, it's not my fault I run a casino, it's stupid people's fault for giving me their money." This is one of the most pathological modes of thinking that exists today. It isn't even accurate to describe most errant ideas as stupid: Most of them are intelligent, well thought out, overcomplicated and wrong. Just because the economists equations come out saying that 2+2 = -56 doesn't mean that the economist is an idiot: he's run it through a series of equations that would make the heads of any 115IQ engineering student hurt, it just so happens the formula he's using is total bollocks. What holds humanity back is not stupidity, it's intelligence in combination with our other undesirable traits: veniality, status-seeking, jealousy, greed, sociopathy. If stupid people were holding society back the solution would be easy: outsmart them. Alas, that isn't the case. Any just society would protect the stupid from predation or exploitation by the intelligent and the sociopathic. Instead, we have a society that scorns them, that practically views them as deserving targets. Just be more intelligent bro lmao.
>>646390 >being polite is the same as acting like a pseudointellectual

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