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Do we care about preserving culture? Anonymous 05/22/2020 (Fri) 20:26:52 No. 520233
Seen a lot of people talking about Capitalism is destroying Africa or Indigenous or whoever else's culture. Should we care? Is it bad if languages die and get replaced by English?
we should reform cultures to be more secular, other than that I think if cultures are blocking progress they will reform them self to fit the situation.
Nah
cultural artforms and legends? yes all that other shit? no
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>>520233 >Is it bad if languages die and get replaced by English? yes t. OSV gang
Not legitimate: >complaining about people speaking a different language than their ancestors Legitimate: >complaining about people being forced to change their culture >complaining about dead languages disappearing It's a subtle distinction but "preserving culture" in the sense of keeping it alive is reactionary, while preserving in the anthropological sense is good. People should be free to maintain or abandon whatever elements of their culture they want, but we should try to maintain records at the very least so that our knowledge of human society is as complete as possible.
You can't preserve cultures without maintaining the material base that sustains them. What this means is that people advocating this are reactionaries, whose primary aim is perpetuating slavery/feudalism/capitalism. Whether it was the slave-holding south, Japan, China, Russia or any other places - calls for protecting traditions have always been euphemisms for preserving certain types of class rule and modes of production. Abolishing capitalism will inevitably erase a lot of cultures that are dependent on, and were born from capitalism. And that's a good thing.
>>520267 Are Native Americans advocating a return to hunter gatherer society too?
It's pretty hard to revive a dead or dying language, especially when their is a generation gap between an older generation that speaks it and a younger generation that has no practical use for it outside of communicating with a select few individuals that are actually fluent in said language. t. quelqu'un qui parle francais Louisianais
>>520278 >Mfw burgers have no culture so support destroying one of the few things that separates man from animals
>>520269 Most Native Americans practice(d) agriculture. The plains Indians are the exception that formed the stereotype, and they were they way they were because the prior civilizations like the Mississippians got turned into Mad Max when Hernando de Soto brought the plague.
>>520269 It depends, some may be reactionary, but generally I don't see these struggles as born from the reactionary impulse to "preserve" cultures, as much as an economic struggle against exploitation. You could even argue that many of these struggles are socialist in nature. (Zapatistas, Bolivia, recent struggles in America, etc.) When looking at these struggles you can distinguish them both by their class nature, and the origin of their grievances. Native Americans struggling against poverty, or having their homelands destroyed, are not the same as slave-holders and aristocrats wanting to save their estates.
If you care about some (not harmful) custom or whatever you should find other people who care and preserve it by practicing it, that's the only way culture is genuinely preserved. Yes, capitalism destroys traditional cultures, often in very nasty ways, but there's no guarantee socialism won't, and I don't see a reason we should all care. Given time history will uproot everything.
I genuinely WONDER why a lot of """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""leftists"""""""""""""""""""""""""""", particularly western """"""""""""""""""""""""""""leftists"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" are doing devil advocate for genocidal imperialism lately. Hmmmm, a MYSTERY. But surely the track record of western """"leftism"""" should eschew this paranoia!!! Let's see the feats of western """leftism""": Ummmm, women leading the CIA? Ok that's it.
>>520233 >Should we care? Yes >Is it bad if languages die and get replaced by English? Yes
>>520309 Thanks oldBO, but OP didn't say anything close to that
>>520320 >Seen a lot of people talking about Capitalism is destroying Africa or Indigenous or whoever else's culture. Should we care? Sorry, did I miss some awesome wicked sick CONTEXT? Huh bro?
>>520309 Who is being devil's advocate for genocidal imperialism? Industrialization and globalization would lead to cultural homogeneity without colonialism or capitalism having to be involved. If we never invented class society at all, the eventual process of globalizing would unify society in such a way that cultural groups would meld together. >>520323 Imperialism is bad because it kills people not because muh culture.
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Look at what has happened to culture in the land where capitalism is at its most developed. Forget about indigenous people, "cultural victims" of capitalism can be found as easily among people in the imperial core itself. Obviously it has not been a good thing, and the less other people have to suffer it the better.
No its not a bad thing. My native language is fading away but I dont feel bad for it. I mean, do we feel bad because nobody speaks Etruscan? Do we feel bad because nobody speaks Babylonian? I think remembering those languages is enough. Dont cry because its over, smile because it happend.
>>520326 The intentional erasure of an ethnic groups culture is literal genocide. If a certain ethnic group resists that process, yet "capitalism" (which is still helmed by CONSCIOUS HUMAN ACTORS) still persists to erase their culture, that is genocide. To think harm can only be done through death is moronic beyond belief.
>>520281 >tfw French literally had to be beaten out of the old generation to prevent them from speaking it
Language, culture and cuisine must be preserved. The eradication of one culture for another is all in the name of capitalist interest.
smiling thinking back to a discussion on here where some simpleton claimed that as long as cultural artifacts and languages can be consulted on the internet, they have been saved, and in fact we are all enriched because we can pick and choose all those tidbits that we like
I only care about italian culture being preserved
>>520264 VSO is obviously the superior word order though. Move aside, Anglofags
>>520418 Like the history museum in london! Culture is saved!
>>520309 Western leftism is liberalism and capitalism Liberalism and capitalism does progress which leftists will always support so if liberalism and capitalism eradicates all other culture on the planet leftists will support that because that's progress.
>>520428 t. CELTIC GANG
>>520357 Communism will genocide all humans on earth by advancing to a proletarian culture.
>>520439 One of the big criticisms of the USSR was their attempt to russify most of their territory by forcing everyone to speak russian. There's few arguments against this. Communism shouldn't be in the active process of destroying cultures UNLESS there are harmful practices that are tied to that culture, even then, they can be reformed, not destroyed.
>>520442 >One of the big criticisms of the USSR was their attempt to russify most of their territory by forcing everyone to speak russian. [CITATION NEEDED]
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>>520422 >Pizza Yes! Pizza!!
You can't do social engineering on the scale of "destroying cultures" without risking the deep rooted, serious alienation of a set of people against you for doing that. I personally don't give a shit about preserving cultures, but I give a shit about defeating capitalism and advancing socialism. That requires solidarity, and it will require stages of development. You can't have a paternalistic mindset in this regard to subsets of people in some nation. Like, if you're talking about indigenous people or black people or something in America, if you treat them as a group to lord over and bargain with from on high they are going to resent you, especially when you sacrifice policies they largely identify with or prefer for something or other. But ways of life are going to be destroyed and replaced in movement to a new political economy. We don't even know what that looks like, so there is no sense in which socialists or white socialists particularly can decide whether they want to "preserve cultures". Socialists prioritize the abolition of class society, and those conditions will create a new way of life that we haven't experienced and can't fully know ahead of time. But what we can do is fight class society and attempt to overthrow it in coalitions with other people who share our class interests, although they may also have other interests specific to them.
>>520439 >Communism is when we're the borg You're proud to be a strawman.
>>520463 No, under Communism we will eradicate all culture, learn esparanto and express art solely through mathematical formulas.
>>520233 Look into museum reparations and deaccession discourse.
>>520463 >You're proud to be a strawman. That's funny considering how hard you just straw manned my position.
>>520535 The shit you said is the literal strawman in all anti-communist media.
>>520610 Except that its correct.
>>520233 We should preserve a database of culture, yes. However, culture is not stagnant. It changes quite rapidly, Meaning preserving some facet of culture becomes hard to maintain. We could perhaps maintain the aesthetic of certain cultures, relive them in retrospect, however that can be quite negative. We need to go forward as much as some would like to hold on.
Cultures are only useful for dividing the working class. They are of no value on their own.
>>520444 "What Stalin had in mind was a Russocentric federal union , with the RSFSR absorbing the other republics . 40 When Lenin understood the implications o f Stalin's plan he was strongly opposed, and produced his own plan for a federation in which all th e republics would be on an equal basis . This dispute over federalism was one of the issues which le d Lenin, when he was critically ill, to dictate the political testament which recommended that the part y remove Stalin as general secretary ." https://www.ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/1997-806-07-Hammer.pdf
>>520621 genuine low iq take
>>520439 If communism does happen, nutcases like you will be killed at least.
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I don't know about preserving culture, but the deliberate destruction of cultures and languages is one of the fundamental tools of imperialism. Most likely you'll see a revival of native cultures under socialism but they'll be different, take for example Kwame Nkhruma, he wore the traditional skirt of the northern tribes but decorated it with the patterns more commonly worn in the south of Ghana as a sign of national unity.
>>520233 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M-m_7G31yh4 Why preserve when you can A D V A N C E ?
Everything should be replaced by superior, liberal western culture.
>>520390 They should not only be preserve but also developed further under the framework of socialism. Anything that’s intrinsic to the capitalist or feudal material basis must be either discarded or modernize to fit the new proletariat. That’s what most socialist country always striving for, successful or not. Proletkult being a good example and Mautistic Cultural Revolution being a bad one (although the latter arguably was never about culture but just another attempt of power play in the upper echelon of the Gang of Four and Deng).
>>520233 Fuck "culture" as a concept. 1. either culture is coercive, i.e. it forces people to do shit (i.e. women being forced to wear burkas is muslim culture), in which case it needs to be abolished posthaste, 2. or it is not coercive, and culture is merely the result of millions of people freely choosing their interests, in which case, caring about "preserving culture" is irrelevant, because culture will be preserved merely by protecting the individual liberties of the members of the populace.
>>521039 >women being forced to wear burkas is muslim culture ...no? There is no muslim culture. Most muslim women don't even wear burkas, they were scarfs or dubatas at best.
>>520453 I'm italian and I'm fucking sorry about the pizza thing but if I can say something about it, Pizza Hut isn't even italian, it was unironically cultural appropriation by yankies, we don't even have Pizza Hut here.
>>520233 Culture is a spook. Yalking about culture in general, it is not something to be "preserved", culture evolves all the time, especially when material conditions of the people changes.
>>521050 >Yalking Talking*
>>520326 >Imperialism is bad because it kills people not because muh culture. Killing culture is really efficient way of killing people and dispossesing them. There is a reason for why every genocidal empire does it. Go for a different strategy than the huns
>>520341 >I mean, do we feel bad because nobody speaks Etruscan? Do we feel bad because nobody speaks Babylonian? Yes.
>>521039 This, culture isn't meant to be preserved but to change with the people.
>>520309 based
>>520433 Thank God for the British Empire, valiantly going to save culture from all over the world :D
>>520442 >UNLESS there are harmful practices that are tied to that culture There is no way to determine this objectively, as "harmful" itself is culturally defined. It in fact changes definition inside culture through time - Victorian English would find much of our current culture harmful. Tending more towards mutual non-interference between culture with universal right to leave a culture if you feel victimized by it, with every cultural group being bound to respect minimal norms of public order (i.e. respect primacy of the Party), not sure how that would practically work ofc.
Holy shit the amount of idealism in this thread. Im sorry but you cant "save" all cultures. There are some cultural aspects that wont fly under socialism. For example like in arranged marriages for land inherentance were part of our culture but under socialism they became useless because of a nature of property under socialism. So in other words, socialism erased part of our culture. This will probably happen with caste system in India for another example. And when it comes to languages, its inevitable for humanity to start to speak only dozen of languages in coming globalized world. You cant really cooperate with someone when fucker comes and speaks Ainu to you. You can try to save languages like in Ireland with Galeic but people will choose english anyway because its more convenient. So only thing to do is to preserve cultures by documenting them but dont shame people to practicing them just for a sake of preservation.
>>521177 people still talk dialect here in their families opposed to the national language so idk
>>521182 Yeah, about dialects. Culture will not get completely homogeneous. People will still create new dialects. So theres no worry that there will be lack of cultural diversity any time soon. And remember, languages are just dialects with an army.
> Is it bad if languages die No. > and get replaced by English? Yes.
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>>521209 This, English is ass language.
>>521209 >>521216 What is the better alternative? It should be easy to learn with uniform grammar rules, few discrepancies between spelling and pronunciation imo.
>>521224 esperanto
Depends what you mean by culture and preserve. Culture as an organic reaction to the environment that a community exists within is fine. If there is a problem with that culture, hatred and bigotry, you have to question what the underlying cause is. Ultimately a reaction against a "problem" with the culture is in itself a cultural phenomenon. In my view, communism changes the environment and gives life to new culture. We shouldn't demolish history - we accept it for what it was and what we can learn from it. Its undialectical to think we can't learn from the past. So I wouldn't say we should preserve culture, rather we should leave it be - if it continues organically thats great, if it fades away that's also great.
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>>521216 >ass language. there's 2 interpretations for this
>>520621 what a burger thing to say. i'm not surprised though, american culture is tv dinners and obesity. possibly the only culture we should be in a rush to lose as fast as possible
>>521798 hehe yeah no. Tons of American are very staunch on keeping their culture. That's why they have shit like Confederate LARPers, DezNat and New Afrika.
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>>521224 tbh esperanto should've been made the global lingua franca decades ago.
>>520269 A lot of their left is anarchist if it means anything.
>>521177 >You cant really cooperate with someone when fucker comes and speaks Ainu to you. Never mention that it's probably best for immigrants to learn the language of the receiving country tho, that makes u a nazi.
>>521224 Something with a phonetic spelling system. Unironically think spelling is the reason the english speaking countries early years education is so shit. Also the reason why places like Finland's is so good.
Culture is what makes life worth living and our human experience more colorful. Americans will never understand this.

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