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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=bunkerchan

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/leftybritpol/ - Serious Discussion Edition Anonymous 03/19/2020 (Thu) 18:41:37 No. 378486
Hello again friends, I am once more looking forward to the serious discussion that we all enjoy.
Am I deranged for seeing the virus as a possible source of optimism? If we take necessary radical measures now (UBI type payments during the virus, home working, government legislating to stop people being evicted or fired, nationalization, govt control over credit creation, etc.) because when push comes to shove nobody has any other ideas, maybe, just maybe we'll be able to break the neoliberal consensus of the past 40 years and create something new. It won't be socialist, but it'll be something. To be clear I still think the most likely scenario is that a lot of people die and then we return to normal, but I hold out for the small chance that the virus pushes people do to things that in normal times were billed impossible - then when normal times return, it becomes unviable to not remove them - or at least, impossible to maintain that they are impossible. The virus, horrible as it is, opens up the frontiers of possibility. Odds are like in 2017 they have been opened merely so they can be slammed shut again in our faces - but the possibility itself is a beautiful thing.
>>378546 I think the virus will be very good for socialists politically, probably not personally. I think a lot of people losing loved ones, jobs, assets etc will change politics drastically. I don't think we'll be going back to "normal", this situation is much more drastic than 9/11 and 2008 combined.
>>378546 Reminder:>>362972 For all the tragedy, this is an real opportunity for us lefties to finally enact a form of direct action and mutual aid on a significant scale. Everything under heaven...
>>378546 To be honest, I used to dread situations like this but I guess I never really realized the day would come, or at least not so soon. However, now that we are actually here, shit has definitely hit the fan and will continue to hit it, I'm not really that worried anymore. For better or worse, this will change the political landscape forever, and will maybe present us with the best and last chance to achieve some kind of socialism and hopefully stop the coming climate catastrophe. If we don't succeed this time, we will still be fucked in a decade or two, and all these people will definitely have died for nothing
Think I'm gonna become a CPGB-ML supporter and hopefully member. Kinda nervous but I see no other way out.
>>378813 Glad you too think the peak vangaurd of the communist movement is complaining about trans people on the internets
>>378817 CPGB-ML is by far the best communist party in Britain
>>378837 Why? What good have they done lately?
>>378813 I really don't understand what the purpose of CPGB-ML is. What is it they do?
>>378845 They have the right line on almost everything.
>>378850 That counts for jack shit without a practical basis
>>378850 But do they do anything substantial? I mostly see a lot of idpol whining from them.
>>378855 Thats all they are, old jaded people crying about about new idpol and struggling to understand this new fancy thing the kids call "the internet"
CPGB-ML would be really good if they didn't sperg out so hard about trannies. They should never have taken a stance on it.
>>378859 I would be more interested in CPGL-ML if they focused on class struggle instead of stupid idpol wars.
>>378680 >Tfw I never truly "got" what Mao was trying to say before all this happened. Rest assured I sure as fuck know now.
>>378866 Sad thing is you could replace the name with any other known "left" group in UK from Labour down and it fits
Boris said today "we're getting it done" ..... ...About a Virus ..... Can anyone explain what he meant by this???
>>378878 True, even WPB do it a bit after initially selling themselves as anti-idpol, like why can they just not stick their fucking oar in the idpol pond? I used to let Labour off quite a bit for it because of how large it is but I get the feeling they're going to be as annoying as the Americans now Corbyn is gone.
>>378851 They do far more than any other communist party in Britain.
>>378964 But what do they do? Don't say print a newspaper or I will go full gorilla warfare on you.
>>378988 They organise events with socialist countries/parties across the world, they publish books defending the USSR, Mao, Stalin, China, DPR Korea etc, they support an actual revolution and not just following the Labour Party.
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>why yes, I am a member of the CPB, how could you tell?
>>378996 >They organise events with socialist countries/parties across the world <not even in IMCWP
>>379006 >LABOUR GOOD
>>379019 their stance is more like: >Labour has degenerated
>>378996 But what do they do for people in the UK?
>>378988 >gorilla
>>379038 lmao, from what? labour is an imperialist party
CPGB-ML members really do have more to say about Labour than their own party. Is there a point to any political party in the UK?
People are going so insane over coronavirus, I really can't stand it. Do people not see that capitalists are rubbing their hands with glee at getting to impose quarantine laws?
What does britpol think of Red Fightback? Having a conversation with one of their sponsors and I'm sure it will be interesting given the current situation. I have admired them from afar but I obbviously quite small but definitely don't seem as cringe as other UK ML parties. https://redfightback.org/what-we-stand-for/
>>379169 >Content note: some of the sections below assert our opposition to oppressive systems such as racism, sexism, and ableism, and as such contain explanations and examples of how these systems operate. While not particularly graphic, some of these examples may be upsetting. >White supremacy >Red Fightback is opposed to patriarchy, the socially constructed gender binary, and the consequent marginalisation of the LGBT+ community and women. Patriarchy is a social system in which men hold primary power and prevail in roles of political leadership, social privilege and control of property. In our society, patriarchy is also contoured by cisnormativity and heteronormativity—i.e. the placing of heterosexual and cisgender people as the norm, or default. >An often-overlooked aspect of ableism is fatphobia Alright own up, which one of you turned 2016 into a communist party?
>>379163 tbh Britain cries out for localizing supply chains. Keynesianism in one country, for every country. The Bennite dream delivered.
>>380453 SIEGE SOCIALISM
>>378850 That anon asked what have they done lately
>>380453 As only_socialist_in_village.jpeg this will happen soon enough. Things are gonna go back to the 1950s where you did you weekly shopping in the village shop and collected what the Grocer ordered in for you.
Rumours the tories want to form a national unity government when the labour leadership race is over.
>>380726 Why? To let Labour take the burnt of the cov-19 aftermath?
>>380730 No because nobody trusts the government and backbench tories are worried Boris is gonna get us (read them) all killed.
Anyone else's workplaces firing people? Fuck this shithole country I'm joining the communists
>>380803 You'll probably see more action in a tenants union with all the landlords being cunts and seeing this as an opportunity for free rent, so if you're going to do one, do both.
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Made this. Yes, that is the Sonic font, thought it would appeal to the zoomies
>>379006 Pathetic losers.
>>380730 >>380736 Why on earth would they do that? They have a massive majority
As long as Frankie Lampard is ok nothing else matters
>>380878 Probably so the party of personal responsibility can do what they always do and blame Labour.
>>380882 Sounds like a myth based on hysteria
>>380901 I don't believe it but if it's true that would be the reason, Starmer would be leader at that point and he's a wetbag.
>>380907 I would love for it to happen, it would put the plan to PASOK Labour on steroids.
So how bad is covid in the UK? I'm still undecided as to whether or not it's mostly hysteria
>>380956 Once you know it will be too late.
>>380956 It's not hysteria anymore. The UK might be one of the countries that will be hit the hardest because the delay in the government response. The countries that acted fast have the greatest chance to curb the infection rates.
Several German states are about to impose total curfews starting from midnight. Curfews for the UK when?
Based Lenin
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>>381113 The title of 'Based' is not necessary in Lenin's case. It is a given.
>>380964 B-But the Tories told me doing nothing and doing it quickly was a response!
>>380811 I don't rent and they are not communists
Sick to fucking death of people panicking over coronavirus. How are people so blind that they don't see it's being used to inflame anti China sentiment and as an excuse to sack workers? People are endlessly panic buying like kulaks
>>381273 It's because there is a free market instead of rationing.
>>381284 That's true but it's disappointing how people reveal themselves to be so selfish
>>379157 Enough with this doomerism. >It's all pointless, let's just bend over
>>381406 Doomerism isn't when you shit on our useless political parties. Nobody gives a shit about a publishing house masquerading as a political entity.
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>tory retards online still saying labour would have handled this worse what the fuck is wrong with these people?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-support-for-employees-benefit-claimants-and-businesses For people who need to make a new claim for financial support We understand people who are required to stay at home or are infected by coronavirus may need financial support, and quickly. We announce that: >Those affected by coronavirus will be able to apply for Universal Credit and can receive up to a month’s advance up front without physically attending a jobcentre >The 7 waiting days for ESA for new claimants will not apply if they are suffering from coronavirus or are required to stay at home – so it will be payable from day one Employees and self-employed people To make sure people in work can take the necessary time off to stay at home if they are suffering from coronavirus or to prevent its spread, changes have been made to Statutory Sick Pay and how Universal Credit supports self-employed claimants. This includes: >People who cannot work due to coronavirus and are eligible for Statutory Sick Pay will get it from day one, rather than from the fourth day of their illness – we intend to legislate so this measure applies retrospectively from 13 March 2020 >Statutory Sick Pay will be payable to people who are staying at home on government advice, not just those who are infected, from 13 March 2020 after regulations were laid on 12 March 2020 – employers are urged to use their discretion about what evidence, if any, they ask for >If employees need to provide evidence to their employer that they need to stay at home due to coronavirus, they will be able to get it from the NHS 111 Online instead of having to get a fit note from their doctor – this is currently under development and will be made available soon >Self-employed claimants on Universal Credit who are required to stay at home or are ill as a result of coronavirus will not have a Minimum Income Floor (an assumed level of income) applied for a period of time while affected
>>381450 What's your solution then?
Where's sperganon/anglo-nazbol/boomerposter? This board is dead today
>>381517 Don't tempt them.
>>381510 Worker/tenant unions.
>>381530 So 20th century bruh Co-ops and mutual banks/credit unions
>>381549 >my party is so good i don't have to tell you what they do epic politics moment
>>381549 That is also 20th century socdemism.
>>381557 I'm not that anon >>381564 But never fully implemented and realised. Add in MMT for credit/union funding for funky new 21st century version
>>381517 chatbot/sperg_anon is dead, I doxxed him then coofed on him.
>>381599 >I doxxed him ?
>>381599 Are you the anon who always argues with him?
>>380811 >MUH TENANTS ONIONS WILL SAVE US
>>381615 >MUH PARTY WILL SAVE US
>>381607 t. Sperg_Anon (Its normally a few anons telling him to stfu he just thinks its one person and its not him being the sperg.... such is autism)
SERIOUS DISCUSSION
>>381628 Yeah, I just like to say, uhm.... lets have some serious discussion now eh?
Alex Salmond trial has concluded. Don't know when we get the verdict though. (Don't think before Monday at the earliest.)
>>381618 As far as I can see, the CPGBML has a better chance of creating a socialist Britain than anyone else does.
>>381647 that seems rather like saying that of all pacific island nations, Fiji has the best chance of successfully conquering the United States by military means.
>>381621 I think you're all as bad as each other tbh
>>381647 What are their policies,positions etc?
Here lads how about these Boris bucks though? Lmao Corona done give me a three month holiday or some sheeeit. >>381647 lmao no. >>381615 unions trade and tenants yes and debtors too if we can work out how to organise it. You directly struggling against capital? >>381505 i know which clique you're from hang richard branson indeed.
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>>381754 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpal_Brar >Brar owns buildings in West London which he uses for CPGB-ML party activity, and he part-owns an internet shop called "Madeleine Trehearne and Harpal Brar" which sells shawls. http://www.trehearneandbrar.com/ http://fashion.telegraph.co.uk/news-features/TMG9795827/What-Im-Wearing-a-Pashmina.html >If you ever doubted the power of Vogue to influence millions in its chosen sphere of expertise, prepare to be chastened. At the end of the Nineties, out of the blue, it pronounced the beloved tool of all yummy mummies moribund. Sure enough, the pashmina pegged it faster than an inconvenient human impediment to marriage in a Jane Austen novel. >The pashy, you see, had become very fashionable, which is but a short step behind too fashionable, which is on kissing terms with ubiquitous. Who will rid us of these turbulent pashminas? who will rid us of these turbulent pashminas >A fashion week goer dons her pashmina and Madeleine Trehearne and Harpal Brar's embroidered pashminas PHOTO:
>>378847 Wave edgy flags and be old
>Make last thread >Immediately descends into autism >New thread >CPGB-ML autism Did I miss the bit where Marx said autism was a revolutionary neccesity? It destroys all of these threads
>>380871 Looks pretty good tbh If you're able, take the text out of the cartoon on the top right and put a hard hat or something similar on the puppet Any text in a political cartoon saps the punch out of it Put lord Farquard in beside Johnson
>>382053 >CPGB-ML autism At least it is regular autism not gaslighting autism.
>>381768 Brar stood down as leader last year.
Anyone here a member of a British party?
>>383311 No. If Labour actually showed signs of being left-wing I'd join. They've only ever disappointed though. Corbyn did a Kinnock - even changing his stance on the EU as soon as he got the leadership. Not something I want to support whatsoever, yet it's the best Labour has offered for 4 decades.
>>383324 you're not a communist?
>Rugby club shuts for the season <now they're giving away all their beer Based corona.
>>383311 I'm a Labour member.
>>383336 Stop giving them money you prick.
>>383332 Why would not being a labour member mean anyone isn't a communist?
>>383311 Labour member, if your not u r an armchair sorry faggoli
Does anyone here remember the name of that BBC show about the flu pandemic? >>383363 In what way would a starmer government be significantly different from this one
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>>383366 >Does anyone here remember the name of that BBC show about the flu pandemic? 'Utopia' directed by David Fincher (I think).
>>383369 No, that's channel 4. David Fincher was going to make a yank remake of utopia but didn't
>>383367 We already know your name stephen, no use trying to censor it now
>>383373 Please don't dox him, 'he know not what he does'.
>>383356 £3 a year, that's three greggs sausage rolls with change.
>>383366 Survivors, with the neoblack death.
>>383366 containment?
>>383366 Lesser death coz of Stramer doing anything BUT muh herd immunity?
Post your face when history vindicates you less than 6 fucking months after your "defeat".
From the 'Class War' FB page (yeah, I know)
>>383332 Vindicates him for what? He's still a sell-out who caved into the liberals in his party, going against his own previous beliefs and showing just how out of touch with people (and their interests at the time) he was - leading to Labour's biggest electoral defeat in decades. It would be fantastic to have a Labour government over the Tory government, but Labour should absolutely not be vindicated. Their colossal failure should be remembered until they've actually got the integrity to pave a path for socialism.
>>383512 That all shit about nationalization and welfare was right? 'Everyone is a Corybnite in a crisis.' His position on EU aside, everything else was great and worth remembering.
>>383524 How about throwing all his friends and Palestinians to the dogs
>>383526 (not him): britain is never going to rescue palestine and it's basically a moralistic crusade to try and change's labour's position. the best britain can offer is apathy. britain could totally blockade israel and america would immediately make up the difference
>>383335 Which rugby club? Mine did this also Or rough geographic area
>>379006 What's the difference between the CPB and CPGB-ML?
>>383512 >making it all about one person Corbyn was a not particularly strong or intelligent bloke who was being ganged up on relentlessly, just on a human level it's not really reasonable to expect much more than failure.
>>384619 >Corbyn was a not particularly strong or intelligent bloke Yea but one thing he did bring to the table was how personal and nice he was that he could shrug off all the smears and allegations. Uncle Jezza managed to sell socialism to Gen Y and Zoomers with a human face.
>>384673 Corbyn sold social democracy, not socialism.
>>383528 Are you trying to justify the smear campaign against him and everyone who doesn't support apartheid?
>>385003 no, i'm just saying it's annoying to watch the left stand up and take flak in the name of looking good to other lefties. i want to see the timeline where corbyn countered (perhaps pre-empted) the anti-semitism smear by adopting a stronger pro-israel position than the tories, or ideally than benjamin netanyahu. if he actually gained power obviously he wouldn't change the government's position in such a way, but talk is cheap so why not lie? essentially, my objection is that it's a problem far away from us where we have no influence and where campaigning on it has brings little political advantage but with medium-high political costs. (especially simply in the sheer amount of time dedicated to it.) the problem with much of the left is that they'd much rather talk about palestine than preston because it's a bigger moral crusade, despite the fact they can do sweet nothing on that crusade. (i'm sure a a CLP resolution condemning Israel will be great comfort to the people having their houses bulldozed to make way for new settlements.)
>>378486 Who is this again?
>>384112 North Herts. Best part is: they couldn't even shift it all.
>>384593 They're more different than alike tbh. Also people meme the CPGB-ML: but they are a fucking tiny org. Most trot groups have more members and/or influence than them.
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Its all to play for! Only on super Sunday football live on murdochnewscorp! On the same death rate trajectory as Italy and we have closed the pubs, make sure to tune in because there is going to be drama.
>>385060 >the problem with much of the left is that they'd much rather talk about palestine than preston because it's a bigger moral crusade, despite the fact they can do sweet nothing on that crusade. I'm not so sure about that. The Israeli government and its allies in imperialist countries spend a lot of time and resources trying to suppress people who talk about Palestine.
>>385415 Jeremy Hunt would well decorate a lamp post IMO.
>>385060 The pro-zionist lobby groups are very neo-liberal they would have attacked Corbin regardless of his stance on Israel. Because like you said talk is cheap. Consider that they look at all the candidates in an election and they will try to influence the outcome towards their preferred candidate, and given the choice between a pro-zionist-neo-lib and pro-zionist-soc-dem, they will still attack the soc-dem, and support the neo-lib. Besides the Jewish diaspora and the Zionists are separating. There is an increasing amount of anti-semitic minded people that support the Zionist cause in Israel and a decreasing amount of Jews that support it. The lesson is not to kowtow to pressure from a neo-liberal lobby group, the lesson is to accuse the zionist project of anti-Semitism, because the Palestinians are ethnically Semitic too. As to the question why bother with this fight, well the pro-zionist lobby is still neo-liberal economically, and they will probably interfere with soc-dem reforms because of that, and there in also lies the practical utility of supporting Palestine and highlighting the crimes Israel commits, because it reduces the soft-power of Israel and their neoliberal government that will likely oppose soc-dem reform in the UK on idealogical grounds, and support the neo-liberal factions.
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The Welsh are getting angry.
>>384705 Social democracy in policies but socialism in ideology.
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>>385494 All Corbyn offered was a reversion to pre-1979 style social democracy, that is still capitalism.
>>385570 He didn't tho, he offered Benninite Command Economics.
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Reminder that the Official Leftypol Line is to support Cornish Nationalism at every possible opportunity.
>>385324 Nice. West mids here. Some old boys filled up plastic milk bottles think we cleared all ours
>>385486 Literally the most pathetic revolutionary spirit in the world, even worse than england. Not a jock btw
>>385619 Good idea, isolate the racist tories to one area and bomb the shit out of them
>>385649 Mate same, we had 8 gallons of black sheep.
>>385657 Cornwall was more objectionable when it was lib-dem 2010-15 than tory 2015+ tbh
>>385691 Strong. Slight tangent but the Autocrat who's been twos captain the last season went full retard and posted this on reddit: "COVID-19 is forecast to kill tens of thousands of people over the age of 60 in the UK. Any chance we can have another Brexit referendum afterwards? I feel the demographic makeup of the country will have shifted significantly enough that it's worth asking the question again" This is your brain on the EU lol. Plenty old boys at the club voted leave too this might be the leverage needed to reclaim the twos for the people!
>>385653 Wales had a socialist uprising in the 1830s, England never has.
>>385720 Fucking kek. Honestly tho, seeing a lot of boomrrs saying "WENT TO PUB, ABOUT 50 PEOPLE, GONNA LIVE LYFE SIMPEL AS". Pretty sure they have a death wish.
>>385981 At least there'll be less Tory voters in 5 years
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HE'S GONNA COOM
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>tfw everyone is talking about the new games and stuff they bought to get through the quarantine and you have no money for it
>>386532 pirate it
>>386013 no benefit to that since Labour will be no different by that point
>>386534 can't pirate animal crossing
>>385600 >socialism is when the government does things
when are we getting boris bucks
I feel like I'm going crazy trying to push back against the horde of howls for martial law and invading China. It's insane.
>>385929 Chartist uprising happened across England & Wales
>>387422 Nobody in the UK is as obsessed with invading China as you are so I think it's not on the table at all.
>>385703 Same thing, region of posh tory cunts who voted yellow tory for a bit
lmao at the thought of anyone invading china https://youtu.be/JOWRembdPS8
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Privatised rail is dead!
>>385981 Hope they're gonna get kicked out of ICUs in favour of younger patients
idpol
>>388464 Does this mean we can afford to travel now
>>386728 It is when the market mechanism is removed: read Cockshott.
>>387422 Ironically Boris doesn't want to do it because he is a big brain libertarian.
>>387422 What hordes?
>>388543 the voices in his head
>>388550 Think they live in the hat actually
>>388543 Every shit for brains reactionary howling about evil chinks
>>388583 Post some then
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Not sure if i should be heartened by reading the telegraph and seeing even they concede that we can't go back to the way things were before the virus, perhaps even more pro-actively than the guardian. there's always a sting in the tail though - a line like "having shown we can pay for anything if we really want to, people will ask why we can't get rid of inequality or fix climate change next." or "the left will use this to ask for a universal basic income, which will either be unaffordable or worse than existing benefits.", but at the same time there seems like a recognition society will move in a more communal, collective direction - and frankly even if that's small-c conservative lead it might be a damn sight better than the individualist thatcherite hellzone we've experienced for the past 40 years.
>>388591 These memes should be gathered together and burned
>>388601 Oh the future in britain is Demsocs/Socdems vs Natsocs. A million blairites and cameronites cry our in fear: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/22/corbynism-without-corbyn-will-destroy-labour-wes-streeting
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>>388615 >only opposition to Nazis is succdems We know how well that goes don't we lads
>>388615 i howl every time i remember this guy released his paper at the height of a global pandemic like yeah that's the best time for labour factional documents, they'll definitely get big attention
>>388641 Imagine being BTFO'ed by a fucking virus lamo.
>>388601 The only thing we can expect is a genocidal war of aggression on China
>>388690 Chinah chinah chinah Why are you so obsessed with cheynah
>>388708 like 80% of plagues come from there
>>388957 >>388708 Back to /pol/ you go, scrotes.
>>389030 Take your MSG and your coughing fits and go home!
>>389030 Never said I don't like chinah
If Italy doesn't leave the EU after this we know they're megacucks.
>>388601 >recognition society will move in a more communal, collective direction HIV didn't accomplish that. Reactionaries just blamed the gays and neoliberals didn't care and no one learned anything. This time, Reactionaries will blame immigrants and China and neoliberals still won't care and both will carry right on being the same dip shits they always were and no one will learn anything again.
THEY FUCKING LET SALMOND OFF THE CUNTS
>>389113 good tbh
>>389113 Vindication at last. An innocent man wrongly harassed by vexatious litigants.
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>when you're a nationalist politician >when you're accused of reprehensible crimes of which you are innocent, at the very least involving involving some small-scale (office level) conspiracy against you, and you're innocent >when the scottish political class has turned against you and is desperate for you to be convicted so they can disregard your legacy as the most successful statesman scotland has produced in a long time >when your successor and you have fallen out over the key political question your party faces, and is totally unwilling to side with you in any controversy due to her own controversy battled administration >when it looks like you're totally screwed, a has-been with nothing but conspiratorial cultists who're frankly a liability left to back you. >but then you're found innocent, because the legal system of the country for which you are a nationalist has performed exceptionally, as expected.
I want to join the Communist Party lads
>>389347 >>389185 >>389207 Scots nats are rapists it makes sense. God Wings must be spunking himself rn.
>>389528 Typical feminist snowflake trying to lock up honest politicians over false accusations.
>>389537 get a grip
>>389528 as much as i hate WoS, you can't lock up an innocent man just to piss him off (and if you can, lock up the cunt himself.)
>>389529 I tried to get in touch with the CPGBML ages ago and they never responded
>>387643 Does the PLA have a foreign legion equivalent?
>>389596 This is CPGB.
Also the SNP are about to get into a Civil War: one of their MPs wants an inquiry about Salmond and to let him back in.
>>389711 SNP factionalism would be pretty fascinating were they not so insufferably tedious and managerial in government under Sturgeon. My understanding is that the consensus of the 2000s was that Salmond was more moderate (despite his more radical rhetoric and history with the '79 group) and that Sturgeon was to his left. Now Sturgeon is in power, the impression left is that Salmond was the comparative radical - in rhetoric and in deed - while Sturgeon is more of a Clintonite liberal. It's a particularly odd transition given that in 2015's election Sturgeon postured as being the most social democratic politician in the UK - but then in 2016, and in particular post-Brexit, pivoted towards projecting herself more as a liberal centrist. Possibly it's because of the Conservatives displacing Labour as the main opposition party in Scotland? (thereby moving the "centre ground" to the right, in that insufferable but inescapable obsession of politicians.) Salmond gives the impression of being more of a small-c social conservative type (not one who would support restrictions on LGBT rights, etc, but one who would certainly deftly side-step the issue were it contentious, while also realising that normal people don't really care anymore with something like gay marriage.), while Sturgeon seems more liberal. The moves towards gender self-ID in Scotland are genuinely quite interesting for breaking with the otherwise managerial tendencies of the modern SNP.* It seems much in step with those tendencies - as though the right group of people has gotten around the government and informed them that it's best practice - while also being radical. In that light, one gets the impression that Sturgeon - either in the long term or the short - is generally in an environment quite contemptuous of Salmond, while the SNP itself is somewhat internally divided on reforms like gender self ID. You see the weird fragmenting of the nationalist movement between SNP loyalists and "Wings Over Scotland types.", Which operates across multiple and unexpected axis. (to oversimplify, SNP loyalists are gradualists on independence and socially neutral or liberal, Wings Over Scotland types are in favor of more radical pushes for independence, and are more socially conservative or TERFy.). Unlike most of the post-1990s period, even the SNP itself shows these divides publicly - some MPs like Joanna Cherry are Wings Over Scotland types, not loyalists, whereas until about 2014 the internal party discipline of the SNP was truly remarkable. All of these changes since 2015 are fascinating, sociologically as much as politically. I'd say SNP loyalists are perhaps (on the ground at least) still sympathetic to Salmond himself, but less likely to support his post-2017 actions and more likely to continue with the (minor) cult of personality around Nicola Sturgeon, while WoS types throw themselves behind Salmond. I wouldn't identify Salmond much with either faction - he seems broadly closer to WoS types in his circle, but more because they're the kinds of people who'd actually watch the Alex Salmond Show than because he particularly cares that someone might lie on a form to use the wrong bathroom. It's a shame we'll probably never get particularly good analysis of the whole thing. Particularly as it becomes increasingly poisoned by the Twitter culture war between TERFs and Anti-TERFs. It's particularly interesting on the TERF/WoS side - while a lot of anti-TERF people support the Scottish Government despite themselves not even being SNP supporters (collaboration between Labour and SNP Youth people to undermine TERF-y SNP M(S)Ps is interesting given the previous dogmatic mutual hate for one another the two parties had, and in the case of Labour somewhat retain), the TERF/WoS types are usually the ones who made Independence the be-all-and-end-all just a few years ago. Now many say they wouldn't vote for the independence of Scotland if it came with Gender self ID. That's a fascinating shift in the primary issue for these voters, and it's particularly interesting to wonder whether it was aided by other fractures (like gradualism vs radicalism for independence, socdem vs managerial rhetoric in government, etc.) or whether it's come straight out of the blue. But since we're touching something as contentious as culture war politics (hell, this post might even turn out to be regrettable for touching on them so strongly.) there's almost no chance that we'll get a fair analysis. Nobody involves seems able to avoid undermining their opponents in the issue. Even I only maintain the illusion I can be balanced because I can hold equal contempt for everyone still involved on the grounds of their sheer incompetence. I consider Salmond retired and maintain a soft spot for him. His 2007 victory was genuinely exciting by Blair-era standards.
>>389839 Fascinating, I agree with all of this with a caveat. Half my family is Scottish, they vote SNP. Why? They're from Moray: you vote SNP. They didn't even vote for independence, but they still vote SNP. If the Nats tear themselves to shreds over Salmond, they will lose their support with these people.
I hope Corbyn gets the coof, Tony Benn will have been turning in his grave at the way he pissed up that opportunity and then allowed pro-capitalist EU shilling to run riot and lose the northern strongholds.
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>>390112 I would have sacked brexit off to have a old-left lead labour in my lifetime fucking libtards wouldn't give an inch for fucking wrecking and whinging like this pandemic is a fucking perfect event to build up a socialist UK from the ground up using emergency measures instead we've got Boris Johnson I shit you not Boris Johnson is the PM
unironically think i'll apply to join the CPGBML after hearing that >gatherings of 2 people banned haha, the booj are absolutely fucking loving this aren't they?
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LOL what is this sudo-lockdown just go all the way, fuck this decade of Tories.. their pandemic has been incompetence
>>390112 >pro-capitalist EU shilling this misidentifies the problem. Yes, there is a strong case that Labour should have taken an explicitly leave position, but the real damning thing about 2019 was the failure to take a position. "We'll have a second referendum" is usually a dogwhistle for cancelling Brexit, but Labour thought that when they said it they could say it in such a way as to indicate to both sides that they would implement their preferred outcome. They thought it opened up an excuse to get away from Brexit (boring, party has no position) and talk about health, education, nationalisation (fun, lots of interesting policies) - when in actuality everyone - publicly - saw that Labour was trying to refuse to take a position on a major issue that wasn't going to go away without being forced away. It's hard to say Labour would've done better with a pro-Remain position, but as a matter of the fundamental politics of the situation, it would've entailed taking a side, which is what they should've done. The Lib-Dems were overestimated and the Conservatives slightly underestimated. Despite that, even if Labour had taken a far more pro-Brexit stance than the Conservatives, I have my doubts they could win under the circumstances. Credibility matters as much as the actual position you take and Labour's has been thin on the ground for a decade and a half. Tony Benn would be more than understanding of the twists and contortions of electoral government. he is, after all, the man who stuck with Wilson (despite Britain's vote to join the EEC) and Callaghan (despite the IMF loan).
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LOCKDOWN
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As Prime Minister, I want to speak to you, simply and plainly, about the grave emergency now facing our country... Jobs will be in danger, and take home pay will be less. We shall have to postpone some of the hopes and aims we have set ourselves for expansion and for our standard of living. We shall have a harder Easter than we have known, since the war.
I bet you anything that stubborn boomers will do their level best to defy this
>>390180 LISTEN TO ME BORIS; I m going to skullfuck you, you stupid Eton cunt
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>>390139 >I shit you not >Boris Johnson is the PM
>>390200 gordon brown's let himself go
Wew lads Glad I've got a job to remotely go to, I don't think I could do three straight weeks at home with nothing to do Wonder when they're clarifying what the limits are though, like if I decide I want to take my daily excercise somewhere else for a change, am I allowed to drive to the countryside and do whatever on my own, but 20 miles from home? And what's "essential" services? Why has non essential work like construction and barbershops not been closed? Beginning to think this blonde guy might not be all that, you'd expect a pdf or something at least
>>390241 you are insufferable
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Gary Busey has been amazing in this statesman role. I hope there'll be a sequel. Anyway, don't get upset if I tell you it's just a remake of a spaghetti western with a post-apocalyptic twist. And Fiona Bruce is getting old.
>>390249 I haven't posted in here regularly since the middle of the last election Who do you think I am?
>>390183 Seeing boomer gammons get donked on the head by the police will cathartic.
>>390260 Double space guy. Seems you're just Reddit spacing guy.
>>390266 Some people just type like this, it only started to be known as "reddit spacing" a few years ago when octeganarian cunts flocked to 4/pol/ during the US election If you write a lot of emails the habit of actually nice spacing is hard to shake
>>390274 learn2blend
>>390274 Don't let him oppress you man, I appreciate your reddit spacing, makes it easier to read when drunk.
>>390291 Never, learn to touch type and format things, you'll have plenty of time from next weekend when they tighten the lockdown again after every boomer in the country tries to ignore this announcement
>>390183 When will the left stop droning on about fucking 'boomers'. Such a useless term that does nothing but needlessly divide. Yet you act like it's a manifesto. Chapo-tier
They published the pdf, there's not much else in it though https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874714/Full_guidance_on_staying_at_home_and_away_from_others.pdf I wonder why they aren't explicitly closing gyms and pools? Got to be a hotspot for transmission surely
>>390422 when society moves beyond the cult of youth that has taken particular precedence since approximately the 1960s, where the affluence afforded by fordism created and then enabled the production of the teenager, the age everyone desires to be forever. boomer is an amazing term, simultaneously degrading the boomer for being old, while chiding them for their irresponsibility. their refusal to take on the responsibilities of adulthood, despite selling out for all of the best of the rights that late-fordism could afford. the term does have some use due to the existence of a generational divide, and while that remains it will always be boomer behaviour to complain about attacking boomers, but ultimately it's rooted in the politics of comparatively recently created generational identity, combined resentment for the inequalities created for a specific generation in the transition from fordism to neoliberalism. destroy the latter and you will probably expunge the term, destroy the former and you certainly will. destroy both and you're half way to communism.
>>390292 >makes it easier to read when drunk. Welcome to leftybritpol enjoy your stay.
>>390438 Tbh generational politics in britain isn't just identity, they are economic and class to a degree. A "working class" boomer owns land, anyone middle class under the age of 35 most likely does not.
>>390422 Generations were made up by marketing companies to distract from class struggle.
>>390438 Not all 'boomers' are the embodiment of neo-liberalism. It was surely that generation who were part of the miner's strike
What is leftybritpol's ideological tendency? https://www.strawpoll.me/19602827
>>390452 Not including Stalinist is based
>>390444 I'm an ML but this conspiratorial thought is getting to be a bit much. No need to explain what porky does with yet another plot to divide workers when the simpler explanation is that the creation of generations coincides with the creation of the teenager as a consumer demographic that can be advertised to.
>generations are a recent concept bruh what
>>390444 Aristotle was complaining about fucking zoomers 2300 years ago Generations are not a new concept, and they arguably have started to make some amount of sense with the massive generational changes in technology, politics and life styles in the past 130 ish years
>>390479 generations as presently codified (i.e. boomers, generation x, generation y, generation z.) really are a marketing invention, though. (though the thing is, they're as much a tool of marketing analysis as they were of marketing-advertising. there's at least a case to be made that marketers invented the groups - at least initially - to explain differences in consumption choices between generations.)
>>390455 ML is "Stalinism"
>>390452 >the succdems say sike guys please...
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Guys, I've been jobless for like 2 years and I still can't bring myself to seriously look for one. I feel like nobody will give me a chance and that even if they did I would mess it up. And even if I did manage to do okay at a job, I would still hate working for some corporation's gain and having to deal with managers and their bullshit. I feel like if I just had a job where I had a task that I could do with no interruptions I could do okay at it but I can't deal with being bossed around and given shit by middle manager assholes. What should I do with myself? It's probably pointless even looking for a job right now anyways but yeah. Also I will never work in a supermarket again, so please don't suggest that if you were going to. I can't deal with the irregular hours and target based bullshit, they treat you worse than an animal.
>>390652 You can get a job driving vans delivering door to door for the supermarkets, they are desperate. Can apply through an agency, just tell them you've simply not worked they don't give a fuck at all.
>>390652 Admin/cleaning work for ARE NHS Worked out pretty good for me
>>390659 BTW this is temporary while the corona is going on, but you'll be doing something positive
>>390659 I can't drive sadly, I have thought about learning but it pisses me off how much it would cost when I have nowhere to go anyway >>390660 That would be ok, I wouldn't mind working for the NHS, I have started two applications to them for admin stuff but got too sad and anxious and didn't finish either once they started asking me about previous jobs and references and wanted me to write out everything that is in my CV again
>>390668 Sorry, I know I'm really just whining at this point and won't do anything to help myself but I feel like in that song by the Smiths where it goes "You shut your mouth How can you say I go about things the wrong way I am Human and I need to be loved Just like everybody else does There's a club, if you'd like to go You could meet someone who really loves you So you go, and you stand on your own And you leave on your own And you go home And you cry And you want to die When you say it's gonna happen now, When exactly do you mean? See I've already waited too long And all my hope is gone" damn I feel like I should be 13 again posting this on myspace
>>390668 >wanted me to write out everything that is in my CV again This pisses me off so much lol, fucking hate that shit.
>>390668 Protip just copy and paste it
>>390704 I looked it up, it's so that they can have bots crawl over your form entries and automatically reject you so they don't have to pay someone to actually read the applications >>390705 Yeah of course but it's still busywork, and then you have to like state how your relevant experience helped you to do blah blah and relate it to this job you're trying to get, why can't they just have people come in to do the job for a day and if they're shit then just don't hire them, that would be infinitely less frustrating to me than having to jump through these hoops
>>390720 Just sign up with some temp agencies, will save you most of the hassle and at least you'll end up working at a few places you can claim as experience.
>>390730 I guess I can try that, it also kind of bugs me that they'll be getting paid out my wages if they did find me something (yes I just have a negative attitude about everything), but, you're right it's a good idea.
>>390734 Just consider it a temporary fee to avoid all the stupid snowflake application forms every shitty company has. The only one I've ever liked was one that autofilled from my CV.
>>390740 Yeah, I guess... Suppose I should try that. I probably still wont, but, I'll try to try. It just feels so hard to do anything. I just want society to help me and find a place for me but they don't care if I live or die.
>>390112 >coof This meme is just going to replace all other memes and slang?
>>390139 In the mirror universe where Corbyn won everyone in the liberal media is decrying his emergency policies as Chinese "authoritarianism" and advocating for the herd immunity meme
>>390488 How can that be when Lenin believed Stalin to be the worst person to take over after he died?
>>390457 That's literally what he said, wtf. You just repeated his post in a rounadabout way.
>>390668 The forms for NHS jobs are a hassle but its worth it, a trust job is the best working environment you'll find at this level and working for an organisation you actually respect is nice Lots of cute nurses too, although I was too spaghetti to ask out the one that liked me Wish I still worked for them, instead I let myself get conned into this shitty private sector job
>>381647 LMAO HOLY SHIT
>>378486 Mike Ashley getting tonked on by the public Lads, class consciousness and critique of capital is rising amongst the populace
>>381647 Even the SDP has a better chance
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'ATE TORIES 'ATE BOJO 'ATE CAPITALISM
>>390886 tbh i find David Owen's analysis of the SDP's failure (made in reference to TIG) very interesting. >He explains that when it was a gang of three – Williams, Rodgers and him – “There was never any question that [the SDP] was going to be a left-of-centre party.” The project, bluntly, was to replace the Labour party: to be a centre-left party shorn once and for all of the hard left. What changed was “the advent of Roy”. >When Jenkins fought two byelections for the SDP, coming close in one and winning the other, his success pushed the new party on to Jenkins’s preferred path, towards the middle ground and an eventual alliance with the Liberals. For Owen, that changed everything. “Up until the moment we became a centre party, I thought we could [win power],” Owen says.
>>391245 What a fucking cretin, deluding himself into thinking a less interesting version of one of the parties can replace them
>>391298 tbh i'd say the strategy was sound in theory, though maintaining organizational unity and trying to build a base would be one hell of a challenge. The SNP basically adopted a similar strategy (though less "shorn of the hard left" and more "with an additional policy of independence") of outflanking Labour as the main centre-left party, albeit aided greatly by the Blairite decision to take Labour right. i wonder how far the SDP was from ~80-100 seats in 1983. that's the real sign of whether they had a chance - if it was just a few percentage points difference, they were in with a chance. if not, they were always doomed. with a good number of MPs, they might've been able to peel off some of the right wing trade unions and hack up a ground game from there. (plus, ideally, they could've ditched the liberals and cannibalized their membership.)
Anyone who supports the lock down is an enemy of the proletariat
>>391354 there are quite a few of those around. what do you intend to do with them?
>>391310 Exactly, the SNP have the benefit of pretending to be left wing with added demagoguery, the SDP were only going to convince a small sector of people to vote for them by just promising to be more boring and less radical
>>391354 It's another libertarian who thinks he is the most leftwingest
>>391357 Tell them off. That's what lefties do, isn't it?
Anyone have any experience with the UK Young Communist League? Are they any good?
>>391384 LARPers who spend all day posting dank commie poster designs and talking about aesthetics. Just join whatever communist group that most agrees with you that meets near you, don't expect more than just meeting people from these communist parties and you will have fun
>>390652 Farmers are fucking dying for crop pickers this season.
>>391412 How get crop picker jobs
very interesting to see the distribution of viewpoints on the Salmond trial outcome Galloway and Andrew Neil together on seeing Salmond as a victim (despite being big unionists), alongside people who want a solid push for independence, and some random moderate unionists. (Who think Sturgeon set him up, or at the very least that there's now a Salmond/Sturgeon split.) On the other side believing he did it there are the Sturgeon wing of the SNP, much of Scottish civil society (including the press*), and ultra-unionist types (who think Sturgeon pulled the strings to see him let off.) there's definitely some kind of cultural fracture this cuts through, but i can't put my finger on what it is. It would be a pretty straight small-c conservative/yankish liberalism split but for the presence of ultra-unionists in the latter category. (who tend to be if anything more conservative than the average small-c conservative type.) *it awaits to be seen if they'll change their tone in the face of a legal outcome - or if they'll just move to keeping one-inch-short of libel about him while implying he's a guilty man who got lucky.
But like what were the actual charges and evidence?
>>391471 Galloway is a Chad, he defends his in-group.
>>391479 in 99% of cases the intercourse did happen, rape is not demarcated but on a spectrum and to be sexually successful as a man means you need to get close to that point without crossing it and different people have different ideas of where it is. The feminist Dworkin has the best take: All hetero sex is rape.
>>391473 14 charges across 9 women. 2 attempted rapes, 9 sexual assaults, 2 indecent assaults, and 1 breach of the peace. 1 charge was dropped prior to trial (i gather implicitly because the prosecution thought it wouldn't hold water.) I'm not fully equipped with the evidence, nor can I claim to be an unbiased observer. (the opinions that have interested me have mainly been those of very biased people.) But ultimately, the main evidence seems to have been their word against his. The circumstances around it all do seem suspicious though. It was put in evidence that some of the complainers were co-ordinating in WhatsApp group, which another complainer refused to be involved with. Witness H (making the rape claim) didn't mention the rape claim in her initial police report and there was mixed testimony over whether she was even present on the dates claimed. (A celebrity gave a Skype interview to the extent that she was, a friend didn't.) >In a text to another complainer two days after the Record story, H wrote: “I’m mulling too. But I have a plan. And means we can be anonymous but see strong repercussions.” The co-ordination strikes me as suspicious, but I'm out of touch with modern communication, paranoid, and reading into the language used in that light. The Scottish government is already on record as having totally balsed up their internal inquiry into Salmond's behaviour, and my recollection is that some of the incidents submitted as sexual assault (such as tugging of hair) undermine the credibility of the whole thing when placed together in the same trial as such serious charges as rape. I hate the nuclear disaster zone that defining that term is. There is no winning move surrounding it. Atop that, there's a persistent rumor (I'll do further investigation, it may be in respectable newspapers.) that they interviewed 400 women trying to dig up anything they could on Salmond. But of course, I've more or less repeated the case for the defense here. I'm not aware of any suspicious behavior that would hint that the prosecution had much more to go by than their word - there's no evidence the Scottish Government tried to help Salmond, which is about the only thing you could throw in to show a conspiracy against them. The damnable thing about a trial like this is that you can't escape ambiguity either way. What I find interesting, almost independent of whether Salmond actually did it, is the politics of the matter - the internal co-operation of the Scottish Government against their former leader. Sturgeon's failure to express satisfaction that her former mentor and boss is, in the eyes of the law, not guilty of heinous crimes. I don't know whether that's because she believes he did it, or because she hates him for other reasons, or just because she thinks it would be politically injudicious, but that's fascinating. Salmond supposedly has more evidence which he couldn't submit in court, but wishes to make public in due time. That should be interesting to see.
>>391489 Also, to be clear here (because this is interesting) the two rape charges were for different women. He was found not guilty for trying to rape Woman H, but not proven for trying to rape Woman F. Salmond's Lawyer stated that F's case provided “most obvious example where his behaviour was not good”, admitted he behaved inappropriately, but never made an attempt to rape her. (I'm not clear on what he actually did, but that should be noted.)
>>390748 The hardest part is starting doing something, not doing it.
>>391489 > in the eyes of the law, not guilty of heinous crimes. To be fair the law can't or didn't prove that Salmond is innocent, only fail to prove that he is guilty. So Sturgeon can't necessarily express relief even if she wanted Salmond to be innocent. >>391496 Oh so it is a mix of 'Nuh uh!' and 'Is it really rape though?' defense. I thought it would one or the other.
>>391373 Nope, I'm a Marxist Leninist who sees this power grab for what it is. Enjoy martial law.
>>391499 Other elected SNP representatives have expressed jubilation at the outcome and demanded he be let back into the party. Sturgeon's Theresa May-esque public statement is remarkable in light of that. (Also I'd broadly say that since we operate on a system where people are innocent until proven innocent, being found not guilty is equivalent to being found innocent - in that you're found ) >Oh so it is a mix of 'Nuh uh!' and 'Is it really rape though?' defense. I thought it would one or the other. In principle basically, though he was never on charge for rape. The charge was attempted rape. In the case of Woman F. His version of events is that the two of them had been drinking while doing work late at night, and because the room they were working in was cold they went to the bedroom. After finishing the work they started to talk, then the two "lapsed" into a "sleeping cuddle" on the bed for a few seconds, before he tried to give her a kiss goodnight, aiming for her cheek but missing and hitting her mouth. She said "this is a bad idea" which "snapped him out of it", he replied "this is a very bad idea", and then she left. (What I find rather interesting there is that he was found not guilty of a sexual assault on F. So presumably the sexual assault raised was a separate incident.) Frustratingly there don't seem to be written judgements online yet. (Do they even put the trial transcripts for something like this online?)
My work is still open even when it shouldn't be
>>391695 call the cops
>>391412 >>391417 I just watched that promo video, it seems like they're rushing and stressed even in the promos. I wouldn't strictly be against hard work but lifting and carrying is definitely not my forte. Despite that I might consider giving it a go but I doubt it's realistic to get to the job site without a car or some other kind of transport.
So how long is this lockdown likely to last? China managed to suppress the virus with an 8 week lockdown but considering how light our lockdown rules are in comparison, and how underfunded so many public services are here I'm suspecting it'll be much longer.
>>391711 Praxis.
>>391813 My money is 4-6 weeks: then things will go back to normal for 2-4 weeks, then there will be another lockdown.
>>391813 What was China like at the time though? I imagine since it started there and they were initially unaware of it the virus would've caused more havoc, justifying the longer lockdown. Whilst we have taken a long time to get to lockdown, there was still encouragement for self-isolation and the coronavirus was known before the first cases appeared.
>>391471 It is cultural war shit: conservative culture warriors are on the side of Salmond (bar one exception) and the liberals are against him (the exception being the ultra-unionists, who hate Salmond more than they hate women who get raped). This will split the SNP: if the SNP push against letting him back in there will be a grassroots revolt, if they let him back in a lot of their younger and liberal supporters will leave. Both will either found a new party or seep into small ones that already exist. Remember this isn't the first time a sex has destroyed a post-Holyrood Scottish political movement; look at the SSP.
>>391861 Tbh I don't know anything about the trial but supported Salmond because I thought there was a good chance of it causing a big chimp out. My plan backfired as everyone else seems to have had the exact same idea.
Tbh one thing we should be doing is agitating for Cuban doctors to come to the UK.
>>392023 Total waste of time unless it comes from within the NHS and they make a huge stink about it.
>>391695 grass them up
>>392032 Tbh it is a good thing to bash the government for. Any anons speak Spanish here? may be write an email to the Cuban gov?
>>391245 You just know Owens was jealous of Benn and Williams was hurt Benn rejected her advances POST BASED Bryan Gould
>>391471 Why would STurgeon setup Slamond?
>>391489 >tfw no Salmond OCTAPUS memes
I like the internet as much as the next guy but the ability for a lot more people to work from home is a right pain. I could have had my feet up all day today if it wasn't far that.
>>392061 Tbh nobody cares what we bash the government over. The best way is to get the NHS workers to shit and fart over Cuban sanctions so we can get their drugs here.
>>392086 P sure the UK doesn't sanction Cuba.
>>392083 you still can anon
Are the NHS or other essential services accepting general purpose volunteers?
>>392076 they've drifted apart politically, he wants a second referendum now while sturgeon wants to wait. (while she's still asking for one, it's mostly because the party is forcing her.) and his political interventions undermine her. (it's notable that she leaves no obvious successor, while she was always salmond's obvious successor. some suspect she's trying to prevent any challenge to her position.) alternatively it's possible that she likes her inner circle more and has simply drifted from salmond while they dislike him. this could be in combination with her believing the claims against him.
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>>391417 d o w n t o the f a r m
>>392091 Wasn't sure if it did or not, I know the EU doesn't but I know the UK has a habit of enforcing US sanctions.
>>392071 welcome, gouldposter.
>>392111 I know the Red Cross is setting up an auxiliary unit.
>Tories want a national unity government if (and implicitly only if) Starmer is elected. the fucking despicable snakes. absolutely shameful behavior, and i'm not saying that as a leftist - i'm saying it on the principle that if you're going to have such a government, almost any opposition leader should be welcome. "a government of national unity, to represent all viewpoints in the nation, so long as they're moderate and sensible like us", the fucking cheek of it.
>>392375 Tbf I think it could work in our favour. State socialism is the result of this crisis, if we can guide it from the inside it puts us at a better position.
>>392388 The Tories and the Trilateral Commission are the REAL vanguard.
>>392426 Not what I said you idiot. Attlee was hardly a marxist-leninist but he engineered a position where britain was nearly a de facto planned economy because he used wartime conditions to justify state socialism. Only an idiot would not take the opportunity to do so in similar context completely without advocating imperialist conquest.
>>392431 >Only an idiot would not take the opportunity to do so Good job we've got the architect of the 2019 defeat to guide us then.
>>392458 Stop being a fucking moron, Attlee lost 1935 too. Not being able to see opportunity in a crisis makes you a bad Leninist.
>>392471 I don't think I'm the one being a moron for pointing out Starmer has done nothing of note besides be a wrecking careerist faggot.
>>392476 >Wrecker <Careerist that's a fucking big brain take care to explain that to me?
>>392480 not him (and don't even really dislike him, he's never been sufficiently non-anonymous for me to care.), but I don't see what's wrong with calling him a wrecker careerist. >wrecker even setting aside his pro-EU stance, he voted for Owen Smith to be leader of the Labour party. that's the mark of the fucking devil. >Careerist centrist Labourite sufficiently concerned about being "too left wing" to vote for Owen Smith.
>>392488 Because being a careerist that sticks with the leadership and a wrecker makes him suicidal.
>Boris' approval rating is up to +20 We're fucked lads.
>>392493 Can you rephrase this I can't parse it. >>392494 Wait for the pyres.
>>392493 Most careerists opposed Corbyn's leadership because they thought they weren't going to wind up in government under him. (Ironically, making that outcome much more likely.)
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>>392508 And what if Starmer simply didn't come to this patently stupid conclusion? What if unlike his retarded colleagues he's calculating and ambitious? He did everything he could to shit up the leadership, and now his wrecking has tanked the old party he's running for leadership with widespread support from the PLP.
>>392494 Jesus christ, people are like goldfish, do they not remember 'herd immunity' when he tried to kill us all?
>>392625 They're just retards.
>>392541 will this be happening in Scotland?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvT_iVfa8Js 1) Use less trains 2) Put more people on the trains 3) ????? 4) Infection reduced Am I simply too stupid to understand The Science™ behind this?
>scores of schizos on leftypol insisting the lockdown will never end and we'll be forced to never leave the house under martial law for some reason >turns out they can't wait for us to go out again to make the line go up
>>392965 They're legitimately trying to kill the proletariat straight up
>>392808 There's a chronic shortage of drivers atm, so instead of having services delayed TfL decided to massively reduce them.
>>392967 if only by wilful neglect and reckless behavior. I am doubtful (not dismissive, but doubtful) that they will just jail and shoot us because "lmao virus".
>>392965 >scores of schizos on leftypol insisting the lockdown will never end Nobody said this retard they said they won't lockdown for the economy, at the risk of the average person. >>392972 Strawman destroyed epic style.
The Communist Party of Britain (CPB) published a statement on 15 February in which it said: “The labour movement is failing to voice the interests of workers and their families in the Brexit debate.” Luckily for the British labour movement, the Communist Party of Britain is here. As proof of the law that a thing may become its opposite (or in line with the current fashionable trend for self-identification), the CPB, in spite of its name, finds new ways to promote anything but communism. For the CPB: “In order to prosper, the workers and peoples of Britain need public investment, public ownership, economic planning, collective bargaining and a fair immigration policy.” In other words, they need Keynesianism. According to Robert Griffiths, general secretary of the CPB: “Echoing the fears and aspirations of the CBI, the Institute of the Directors and the City of London casino is not the same as speaking up for working-class interests”. The statement continued: “Securing access to the European single market need not mean capitulating to the treaties, directives and institutions of the EU, which serve the interests of the capitalist monopolies … numerous countries around the world trade with the EU without giving up their right to decide their own trade, financial, industrial or immigration policies.” The CPB can hardly contain its excitement at the prospect of a Labour government and a bit of ‘left’ window dressing for British imperialism. Following at the tail of the Labour party like an excited puppy, eternally hopeful of the prospect of ‘influencing’ Labour’s leadership, it drops all talk of socialism and looks for justifications to support the new Labour party policy of wanting a Brexit that retains access to the European single market. It does this in the full knowledge that access to the single market means exactly such a policy of “capitulating to the treaties, directives and institutions of the EU, which serve the interests of the capitalist monopolies”. The CPB’s leaders believe they can back the Labour party to the hilt so long as they give a never-ending commentary on all the reactionary and anti-working class activities of the Labour party. Rather than expose these for what they are, these self-identifying ‘communists’ choose to raise all manner of pipe dreams for the Labour party to ignore, and so cover over the Labour party betrayals, one at a time. The CPB has no influence over social democracy; rather social democracy has total sway over the CPB.
>>392972 They won't shoot people, this is just more efficient and killing all useless eaters.
>>392974 >Britain need public investment, public ownership, economic planning, collective bargaining and a fair immigration policy.” In other words, they need Keynesianism. Economic planning doesn't sound Keynesian.
>>392974 >ctrl c + ctrl v-ing some bullshit with unsubstantiated claims ReEeEEeeeEE keynesianism at the barrel of the people's gun can't work, it's not like we live in a country that still has feudal lords!
>>393001 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indicative_planning#France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirigisme France and Japan were pretty Keynesian. (Not trying to be patronizing by linking the wiki thing, i'm just too busy to textwall a proper explanation. I regard this as a moderately obscure topic since indicative planning has fallen out of favour.) Even Wilson's whole gimmick was essentially scientific planning for the new Britain.
>Coronavirus hits, airlines particularly at risk because of the travel restrictions etc. >Government announces it's willing to bail out the airlines >easyJet (and some others) pay out dividends to their shareholders as planned before the crisis, even though the airline will almost certainly be short of cash soon >Government takes it as a sign that the airlines and their shareholders are profligate arseholes expecting a handout while doing nothing to help themselves, does a u-turn and starts saying there'll be no industry-wide bailout and that airlines should ask for private investment if they want to stay afloat. Words cannot describe how amused I am by this situation. Imagine screwing over your entire industry like that, for something as utterly pointless as shareholder dividends. That's a comical level of misguided incompetence.
>>393153 They hang themselves with the rope they sell.
>>393002 >keynesianism at the barrel of the people's gun What an absurd phrase, you would revolt for Keynesianism?
>>392973 There were plenty of people saying that
>>392541 >being part of the Tories' shifting of responsibility onto how many people are able to volunteer is "organising" Jesus fucking christ
>>393195 from a governmental perspective, the measures i would've resorted to to try and keep keynesianism going would've made stalin look like a fucking ancap. if coronavirus doesn't lead to reform, i will return to my position that ww3 would've been preferable to the future we got.
>>393196 No there weren't faggot.
>>393242 You haven't been using this website then
>When the criminal charges were first brought against Salmond, his anger had a ferocity that Sturgeon reportedly was unprepared for. what baffling behaviour. even if he did it and she knew that fact without ambiguity, how could anybody possibly set any limit to their expectations in a situation like this? did she just expect him to roll over and die like a depressed blobfish?
>>394073 Not used to disagreement?
>>393200 Yeah seriously I hate this shit, if the government wants our help they should pay us. The fact that volunteer organisations have to paper over so many cracks in government provision is shameful.
even though i can see through the government's volunteering plans as a cynic, it's eating me up inside that i'm outside the UK and can't volunteer for something, or at least try to do something useful in my area. i feel a sense of public duty, combined with a sense of obligation to live up to the principles of public duty that i believe in. odds are that the best thing i could do would be to stay home anyway since i can't drive and have no particular talents, but i haven't felt like this in a long time
>>393200 >>394312 These are valid points, but considering this crisis we can't just afford to say "nah". You can't practise class politics during a pandemic, fuck you can't do most form of politics. Someone once said that a society moves in lockstep during war, and to find the moral equivalent of war would be the best mechanism to direct that for positive change. We have that now. The guilty will be punished, but once this is over. Until then, we must do all we can to save and help our fellow man. If that means unpaid labour, fuck it I am in.
>>394371 If Charles has it, does that mean Her Maj might too?
>>394371 I hope he dies, this will be the best thing to happen this year so far if he does
>>394312 How are you left-wing but disagree the community should pull together to get through a crisis?
>>394417 >we won't pay if you've been made redundant and you're #60,000 in the queue for universal credit pittance but we want you to work for free or else you share the government's responsibility for death Are you a fed infiltrator?
>>394399 Hopefully
>>394420 >The CPGB was bad for doing volunteering during the war because JSA didn't exist Sorry the fuck?
>>394420 >fed infiltrator shut the fuck up burger
>>394371 Comrade Cov-19 really knows how to pick his targets.
>>394424 You're acting like the volunteer initiative is from an outside left wing source when it's on the fucking NHS website and promoted by Matt Hancock. >>394426 Sorry you've never heard people use the word "fed" tarquin
>>394432 Doesn't fucking matter. Not everyone is an edgy misanthrope like you.
>>391489 >14 charges across 9 women. 2 attempted rapes, 9 sexual assaults, 2 indecent assaults, and 1 breach of the peace sexual maniac
>>394445 What a little bitch
Which language should brit comrades learn to best help with organisation/agitation?
>>391417 Slightly spooked to give them so much info, seems a bit sus
>>394474 Depends, where are you doing it?
https://twitter.com/xr_east/status/1242624469178494979 XR is going ecofash. Fucking great.
>>394483 In the UK but could be to talk to overseas people I guess >>394485 I fucking knew it
>>394485 'going'? XR has always been a green capitalist front to promote 'renewable energy' sources (see Cory Morningstar's reporting on Greta for more on that) I say all this a member of a local XR group. Their worth isn't in the central management, but the local groups and the genuine (although generally middle class) people they attract who are getting their first taste of the essentially anarchist tactics that they operate on. Join your local one if you can, but make sure to act like a fifth column and steer them towards effective direct actions and away from getting arrested in London and all that stupid shit.
>>394503 Based, keep redpilling those dumb libs comrade
>>394371 >monarchs all croak <people will start asking questions about whether or not we should have a new monarch >monarchs survive because of lizard people pituitary gland medicine <people are redpilled that nan had to die but rich old people get to live Win win situation
>>394493 No I mean where in the UK anon. Urdu/Hindi would be better in some places, Polish/other slavic in others etc.
>>394503 Youth strike for climate is much better, had a few clashes with XR when I was helping a march with the youth strike people
>>394485 >>394493 >doesn't even read the tweets before posting quality content >I fucking knew it lol retard
>>394331 No the fuck they won't. The Tories will use this crisis to shore up their popularity and say 'look how people pulled together, Britain is working, the third sector can replace government services after all'. >>394417 No money, no job, where's my support in a crisis? Nobody gave a shit when it was my life on the line due to mental health. >>394420 Exactly, I don't think that I have responsibility to work for free when the government has access to all the possible trillions of pounds of the economy but they wanted to let everyone die to save the economy. I'm already volunteering at some place that should be a government provision, I don't see why I should put me and my family at risk too. >>394485 'ecofash' doesn't exist, fuck off.
>>394953 Are you going to contribute anything to the thread but screaming "retard" with no argument?
Inspirational stuff from Corbyn's final PMQ's, thought I would clip it in case anyone missed it.
>>394485 It always has been >>394474 Welsh
>>396108 Any clips of the actual PMQ?
>>396170 That's the clip he just distorted the audio for some reason
>>395568 >'ecofash' doesn't exist, fuck off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecofascism Lol
>>396277 According to environmentalist David Orton, the term is pejorative in nature and it has "social ecology roots, against the deep ecology movement and its supporters plus, more generally, the environmental movement. Thus, 'ecofascist' and 'ecofascism', are used not to enlighten but to smear".[22] Accusations of ecofascism have often been made but are usually strenuously denied.[22][23] Such accusations have come from both sides of the political spectrum. Those on the political left see it as an assault on human rights, as in social ecologist Murray Bookchin's use of the term. Detractors on the political right include Rush Limbaugh and other conservative and wise use movement commentators. In the latter case, it is often a hyperbolic use of the term that is applied to all environmental activists, including more mainstream groups such as Greenpeace and the Sierra Club.[23] yeah
>>396307 You know what else has pejorative roots? Tory. Ergo Tories do not exist.
Why do cpgb and cpgml suck so much? I want to organise with a party but don't feel any aren't just larping class reductionists. Is a new party that represents this generation, away from the soviet aesthetic what we need?
>>396108 Someday the people will regret not having him as PM.
>>396955 >class reductionism >muh aesthetics Why would you do this
>>396132 >welsh No
>>396307 Who gives a flying fuck about any about that, a fascist is a fascist and we are going to see a lot of ecofascists
I bet you anything they will infect assange with coronavirus intentionally
>>396955 Join your local momentum affiliated group, who knows, your party might even get within sniffing distance of actual political power some day
>>395568 >No money, no job, where's my support in a crisis? Nobody gave a shit when it was my life on the line due to mental health. Sorry to hear that, it must be really frustrating to experience it. I'm sure no one here has any interest in defending our government. It seems that in blaming the current system you have decided to lump volunteering in with the system, and how it normally operates. This is obviously not part of the system, with the scale being unprecedented. Ideally you would have the support of the government to be economically and socially protected. However, even if you had that through living in a socialist system, if a situtation like this cropped up you would absolutely be asked to volunteer to stop its collapse - just like now. So again, how can you even consider yourself a socialist? It actually sounds as if the only interests you care about are your own. You're quite right to be annoyed by the lack of support you've received but it sounds like you're taking it out on everyone else rather than those who are responsible.
>>396955 Try the SEP; their next 'step' is to begin mass organization. Definitely not larpers either.
>>397319 >trots >definitely not LARPers O I am laffin
>>397313 You think all volunteering is automatically the same. You are a halfwit
>>397324 Try doing something productive for a change lad
>>397333 Like shouting at people in the street and waving newsletters in their face?
>>397352 https://socialequality.org.uk/principles/ Not that sort of org mate, and that sounds more like CP/XX than anything else I've encountered.
>>397354 I've encountered SEP newspaper sellers many times. The content of the newsletters is completely banal and consists of noting but accusing as many people as possible of being right wing reactionaries, especially socialist parties, to pat themselves on the back as perfect trot socialists.
>>397357 Nothing*
>>397357 >SEP newspaper sellers If you're going to make shit up at least look up the party you're discrediting; their 'newspaper' is the wsws. Fucking idiot.
>>397360 >h-how dare you accuse trots of being inefficient cultish newspaper sellers >it's the WSWS which as we all know means it's not ideologically banal and self congratulatory nonsense (??) You would think useless trots like you would have a response to this by now or, you know, think of a better way to spread your absurd dead ideology than just accusing others of lying.
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https://archive.org/details/QuiteRightMrTrotsky not a stalinist but this book is fucking hilarious.
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>>397371 a few more
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>>397326 The volunteering the government is asking for with regards to the NHS is to deliver medications, or to drive vulnerable patients to appointments. If you can't drive, you can speak to patients over the phone. You're acting like they're asking you to volunteer to go into trenches for a year. Quite simply, you're an embarassment to any socialist cause. There are people who voted Tory that are living up more to socialist ideals than you by this standard. >being a """socialist""" but wanting nothing to do with helping your community Utterly pathetic
>>397371 >>397375 It's a classic book.
>>397382 Joke's on you, I work for the NHS already.
>>396955 I mean, yes, I think either a new party with a fresh membership is needed or an existing party (hopefully the CPB since they have some clout) needs to be overturned. I'd say look for who is doing the most organizing and direct action where you are, regardless of ideology, then you and a small handful of cadre can perhaps start a new, strong party that focuses on fighting for the working class over shouting at them to do something in their place.
>>396955 What's so bad about the CBGB-PCC?
>>397382 I'm the original anon not the ruder anon, but, I just feel like volunteering is letting the government off the hook still. I might not be an accelerationist but do I really have to do the work to save capitalism from itself, for free, because the government is too stupid and greedy to do it? I mean fuck, man. I just have so much anger. If I was given a job and a wage I'd be happy to go do whatever but am I gonna stick my neck out for the society that doesn't care if I live or die? We've had a suicide crisis in this country for years, it already took two of my family members, maybe one day it will take me, but where's our crisis intervention?
>>397397 They scare succeems ITT because they are too weak willed to get into arguments over the USSR/China
>>397397 Good quality memers tbh
>>397403 With 2 recessions so close to each other, and people seeing how state intervention can sometimes be crucial (such as in this crisis) there is a chance the people will not let the government off the hook. If we want a society that can actually hold the government accountable, we need to ensure we still have a society. People volunteering may be necessary to achieve that. The aim isn't to save capitalism, it's to save its victims. I appreciate what you're saying but I would be concerned that sitting back and saying 'told you so' won't have the desired effect, even if it is true. Stay strong mate. There are people that care about what happens to you, and unfortunately the many others alike. With the uncertainty that will follow this disaster there may even be a chance we make some headway.
>>397365 Guess what the ws at the end of wsws stands for. It's not a newspaper you absolute cretin.
Has anyone here noticed way more people outside today than in the last few days?
>>397889 So you're just a pedantic autistic with nothing substantive to say, gotcha
>>397914 It's a particularly sunny day. Lockdown rules should probably be changed to 'no outdoor exercise unless you have a pre-existing health condition'.
>>397915 Maybe you're just a moron arguing with multiple people falling back on "pedantic" when your screeching rants are shown to be irrelevant. How the fuck are they selling a website on the streets you stupid cunt?
>>397922 You are allowed to exercise outside ONCE (1) per day. Remember, NO SECOND JOGS. but srsly as long as you remain 2m away from people you are allowed to go for a walk
>>397926 You SEP lot really are charmers aren't you?
>CPGB members larping as Trots to discredit them wew
>>397914 It's a lot nicer too; nobody is too stressed or focused on their own lives to forget about others.
>>397945 >i hate the SEP god these faggots are always trying to sell me their fucking newspapers god it's so retarded typical trots and their NEWSPAPERS <but it's a website >you're so autistic such a pedant bet you think you're so clever pointing that out huh <faggot >wow SEP confirmed everybody that thinks i am a faggot is SEP!
>>397952 Yeah I agree. Maybe this whole thing will shock people into not being cunts for a while.
>>397957 Really not doing much to win the battle of hearts and minds here mate.
>>397184 Pam lai?
>>397975 Buy my newspaper nigger
>>397914 Noticed an uptake in people exercising definitely Suppose people feel more motivated to do it now its their only allowed reason to go out other than going to the tesco plague pits
>>397914 Yes. Glad to see the British working class displaying a healthy disregard of capitalist repression.
>>397941 You are. I just presumed that post was referring to all the people going out and BBQing or sunbathing.
>>397957 The point is that they dish out the wsws in the form of a newsletter. They also make newsletters just about the SEP. I have seen them a shitload of times doing this. It's pretty funny you don't know that but you're still shilling them on here
>>397974 Unfortunately whatever happens we can expect a massive uptick in anti-china rhetoric and racism to eastern asians
>>397926 Careful not to pop a vein mate. You're not exactly showing that you're not diagnosed with extreme autism here
>>398177 May reinforce pre-existing sentiment, encouraging people to think along the lines of 'dirty' or 'unclean' ethnic stereotypes.
>>398184 Nobody is selling a website as a newspaper you fucking mongoloid. Sorry I hurt your delicate feelings.
https://www.strawpoll.me/19624772 Where did SARS-COV-2 COME FROM?
>>398226 Yes they are. They're also selling newsletters specifically produced by the SEP. Sorry you can't handle reality autist
>>398241 >Yes they are. No they aren't you fucking retard.
>>398239 What the fuck is this conspiracy shit?
If you told someone in 2010 Boris Johnson would be our PM in 2020 nobody would fucking believe you
>>398269 Unfortunately it seems like everyone has their own pet conspiracy nowadays >>398274 Do you think? It's been obvious he's been second in line for the top job for a long time, hence all the stupid shit he's done to raise his profile
>>398276 come on mate mayor of london? yeah without a doubt but PM? nobody would believe you cause of his sheer boisterousness
>>398281 I dunno man, I've been thinking for years it's been obvious he was gonna either lead the Tories or crash and burn spectacularly and get kicked out of the party. He's a transparent opportunist and social climber and for a long time the mouthbreathing public have been indoctrinated to think of him as a kind of lovable rogue Jeremy Clarkson figure
https://boards.4channel.org/int/thread/120309234 Feel free to spread the socialist message
Just had a zoom with some local marxists lads, was comfy
did we all clap? is the nhs funded by applause?
>>398393 No it's fuelled by science, and Boris freaking loves science.
>>398393 >communitarian myth-making is bad Read Sorel.
>>398393 Some twat on my street was banging pots and it sounded like a bring out your dead bell
>>398419 Based and Hispanopilled.
>>398274 Actually it as assumed Boris would be the next PM after Cameron for a while, and then Brexit happened and everythign went to shit so it all fell apart. Then May turned out to be worse shit so he got back in.
>>398250 Yes they are you aspie
>>398436 Show me it. Protip: You can't
>>398439 >REE WHY DON'T YOU TAKE CLIPPINGS OF EVERY TROT NEWSPAPER AND TAKE SELFIES WITH THEM FOR PROOF IN FUTURE ARGUMENTS take your meds
>>398430 This. I remember seeing a documentary on channel 4 or bbc about it in about 2015/16. "Britain's next PM?" or something
>>398444 Kek, absolutely butthurt
The Clarion (momentum-aligned paper) was an AWL front, right? It was mentioned a while ago, but maybe people would be more willing to confirm in the current (labour defeat, not covid) circumstances.
>>398452 Yes you are, because you can't handle the reality that trots like you are useless and unlikeable.
>>398522 I can't handle the reality of the WSWS published edition because it isn't real, you've made it up.
>>378486 THIS LEVEL OF COPE from Philip Collins in the times https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/even-now-corbyns-fans-think-hes-winning-q3w5sxtl7 Even now, Corbyn’s fans think he’s winning The Labour leader’s supporters are so out of touch they believe Covid-19 measures represent a victory for their ideas Philip Collins Thursday March 26 2020, 5.00pm, The Times It is a metaphorical gift, as Jeremy Corbyn winds down his leadership of the Labour Party and claims in his final prime minister’s questions that his voice will not be stilled, that Russian frigates should be conducting unusual exercises in the North Sea. Invasion by Russia would just about seal the victory of ideas that Mr Corbyn’s supporters like to claim: the private sector locked down by the state, vast public expenditure, guaranteed incomes tied to need rather than labour, and companies the length and breadth of the land forswearing the motivation of profit. Truly, at the moment of his departure Mr Corbyn has won the argument. The Labour leadership contest has been going on so long that, within it, Britain has managed to leave the European Union, the fabric of everyday life has been torn apart by coronavirus, and the Russians are testing our defences. Yet the Labour Party rolls on in its parallel universe and a timeframe of its own devising. Nominations opened on January 7 and the winner will be announced on April 4 by which time, if the tempest of change continues at the same pace, life will have been discovered on Mars and the political reputation of Tony Blair will have been rehabilitated. Mr Corbyn leaves his post a two-time election loser who led Labour in 2019 to its worst electoral performance since 1935. He achieved the opposite of all his objectives, at least on the surface. There is, though, a deeper question and it is worth taking seriously the claim that he won the battle of ideas — not so much because of the negligible influence of Mr Corbyn himself but because the extraordinary measures made necessary by Covid-19 raise a historic tendency on the British left to regard itself as the winner, even from the vantage of obvious defeat. A matter of months after Labour promised that the state would seize control of large tracts of the economy, the Conservatives have done so. There is evidently an emergency which justifies an extraordinary response. The state needs to replace incomes. It needs to reassure people that, once the virus has peaked, there will be a path back to normality. Though there is a lot of excitable talk about how everything will be different after the virus, most things will in fact be the same, for the good reason that most things are always the same, even after a revolution. In due course, the markets for pet food, shoes, key cutting, confectionery, coffee and cake, pharmaceutical goods, flowers, vinyl, books, pizzas and haircuts will look much as they did, just as most of them were left essentially unchanged by the financial crash of 2008. The temptation on the left to ignore this and concentrate on some vast abstract change is always great. Indeed, you could say the Labour Party is the child of such moments. Brought to life by the Great War, which killed off the Liberal Party as a serious force, the Labour Party then came to power and to maturity in the aftermath of the Second World War. Labour’s formative moments were all in the shadow of great events and, ever since, the party has made a memorial of 1945. There is no reason, of course, why a party should not celebrate its greatest achievements but the Attlee government from 1945 to 1951 has cast a shadow over Labour — a sentimental party at the best of times — from which successive leaders have struggled to escape. The party made two errors of interpretation which are germane now. The first was to forget that command and control was an emergency procedure, not the norm. Harold Wilson, the Labour president of the board of trade from 1947, was charged with reducing price controls, food rationing, the centralised purchase of foodstuffs and raw materials, and the system of licences and permits for industrial goods. Wilson himself, who understood that people wanted to get back to normal as quickly as they could, was pictured tearing up a clothes ration book, an action which annoyed his colleagues in the Labour Party. “Wilson’s bonfire of controls speech annoyed a lot of party opinion,” wrote Denis Healey later. Wilson confided to his diary during the ill-starred 1951 general election campaign that the failure to relinquish control quicker and with more relish had hurt Labour badly. The public had the sense that Labour liked the egalitarian and fair-shares nature of rationing rather too much. The emergency made socialism necessary and Labour was slow to let it pass. What is more, there was and is a puritanical streak in the party, mocked to telling effect by Tony Crosland in The Future of Socialism, which disdains consumption and activity without obvious moral purpose. A social lockdown is, among other things, a crackdown on frivolity but there comes a time, after the sacrifice has worked, when people look forward to the release. So it was with rationing in 1951 and so it will be, in time, with the necessary limitations to life we are observing to prevent the spread of the virus. The second way in which the Labour Party has memorialised 1945 to its detriment has been to forget that its extensive social spending was itself justified by the experience of war. A nation that has just gone through the terrible sacrifice of the loss of many of its people, in a fight for freedom against a foreign enemy, is in the mood to rebuild. There was a strong sense of moral justice after the war; sacrifice had to be answered by a new dispensation. One of the many reasons that Boris Johnson is struggling to emulate his hero Winston Churchill is that, when the foe is invisible, the “battle” we are waging is a metaphor rather than a war. It does require social spending that would have been inconceivable a month ago but, again, Labour politicians need to be cautious before concluding that this will last for ever just because they want it to. The historian John Campbell has written that the dispute between Hugh Gaitskell and Aneurin Bevan was never really about the trifling sums at issue over dental charges. It was an argument about the nature of the new National Health Service but, bigger even than that, teeth were a metaphor for a split in the Labour party between those who wanted to spend heavily and those who felt that sometimes the discipline of the fiscal conservative was a vital corrective. There are no fiscal conservatives anywhere in politics now but this argument has not gone away. Labour has lost two elections in which it was considered profligate and, in the midst of a Tory blizzard of spending and extensive state activity, it could fall into the trap of thinking voters have embraced it for good. That error could dog the party for a long time, even longer than the duration of its interminable leadership election.
>>399198 Incredible that people get paid to write this shit.
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>>399362 >2% American What did they mean by this?
>>399362 >2% american The eternal burger strikes again.
>>399373 He got FREEDOM genes.
>>399362 >Flag of Israel >Jewish I'm contacting the EHRC.
Press S to pray that the rumors that Boris Johnson has Cov-19 is true.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791
>>399914 Your prayers were answered my dude
>>399917 YES PRESS S FOR BORIS
>>399915 Lmao, unbelievable
bojo: dude herd immunity lmao 2 weeks later: Coronavirus: Prime Minister Boris Johnson tests positive
Why are leftists on twitter being so loony? Do they actually think they'll convince anyone it isn't important for the prime minister to get the test, let alone not discredit themselves to the public? Anyway - chances the rest of cabinet will be affected?
>>399955 tbf it's good for highlighting the inequity of the situation. (so long as corbyn doesn't get it.) although prince charles already fills that role.
>>399955 Tbh I expect them to have it but they are all pretty young.
>>399955 >Johnson gets infected due to his actions alone >whines about leftists on twitter making a decent point about leadership not being allocated special treatment Bruh, can you stop being a bitch, for five fucking minutes?
>>398393 I didn't realise this was going on until I heard the clapping and looked it up, what a fuckin disgrace as a nation, might as well start praying to comets next
>>399963 Is it really a 'decent point' if it will completely discredit you? Obviously it highlights that we're not all being treated equally... but it's the elected prime minister for fuck sake. If it was some corporate mogul, or a member of the House of Lords, then fair enough. People should be emphasising how important it is for NHS workers to now be tested, which Boris should now know full well.
>>399955 'First among equals' lol
Does corbyn become pm now What will it take
>>399970 If he is the fucking prime minister, he should not even be in a position that he needed to be tested in the first place. His reckless behavior politically and personally meant a testing kit is wasted on him and doctors and nurses need it the most. I am so sick of tried of people in this board whining about what other leftists are saying every fucking time, even now you still find the time and energy to cry about them.
>>399990 Funnily enough, idiots making a leftist cause look like a mockery is something to be annoyed about. Believe it or not, how points are phrased are important. Appearances are important. But sure, let's celebrate the undermining of what we fight for.
>>399999 But it doesn’t make leftists look bad since their grievances are justified. You conveniently side stepped my argument to whine about optics some more.
>>399999 Bojo got the covo lmao
>>399999 What a fucking waste
>>400009 How have I avoided your argument? Instead of looking like a an utter fool by smugly asking why the fucking prime minister was tested, you can say >The PM's carelessness and slow response to a pandemic has put us all in danger, himself included. Testing of essential workers is clearly of great importance. Let's get the NHS staff tested before it's too late. >>400015 Based
>>400022 Dude I literally have my argument here>>399990 Free feel to start arguing anytime instead of resetting everything.
>>400031 Are you taking the piss? Tell me which bit I have not addressed.
>>400034 Are you playing dumb or really just like that? The part about the fact that his reckless behavior and failure to isolate himself. He didn't need a testing kit and he had one coz of his retarded choices.
>>398817 The SEP hands out newsletters made from content on WSWS.
>>400037 How have I not addressed this? >>400022 >>The PM's carelessness and slow response to a pandemic has put us all in danger, himself included.
>>400040 Because you never or didn't want to make the connection that why he should have special treatment when he is the one making the decisions. How ironic that the man who among the entire country is mostly responsible for directly led to the current situation is saved from its worst effects. Just because you can think up a better thing to say doesn't undermine what those other leftists said
>>400042 The funny thing is that nothing will actually change now that he's self isolating because he doesn't actually make decisions or run anything.
>>400044 >The funny thing is that nothing will actually change now That isn't the point... it is a spectacular demonstration of his failure to contain the virus. Oh please, enough with the gaslighting. He has probably infected other VIPs already and will make Number 10 paranoid and panicking in containment.
>>400047 >it is a spectacular demonstration of his failure to contain the virus. Won't look good in the history books anyway
>>400047 NTA and I agree with you about him, just that it's funny to see people say he should resign as though he was making decisions before, he's usually on holiday or mistreating doggos instead of doing anything
>>400055 > it's funny to see people say he should resign as though he was making decisions before At this point why not? UK/Boris has gone full retard, only choice to follow suit. Never go half retard.
>>400055 >mistreating doggos What's this?
>>400060 RNA-led Junta installing Jez for eternal prez when??
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Does anyone remember the story of the kid having to sleep on the floor in a Leeds hospital because there were no beds? And that was before the pandemic
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How to we reconcile with the fact that these people are some of the only ones who are critical of MSM reporting of foreign policy
>>400176 Do we*
>>400176 I doubt these people are interested in foreign policy, they're more concerned with squirting vinegar in their gardens to break up the chemtrails in the sky, they are not our allies
>>400206 Patrick Henningsen and Anna Brees both made good content against the chemical weapons false flag in Syria.
>>400213 All I can suggest is to try to forcefeed them the materialismpill then
>>400223 Good point, their distrust of the media comes from the idea that all world events are down to some master plan and not the result of a materialist understanding.
I feel like the people on twitter crying about others having fun at Johnson are rehearsing a bit or something coz I barely see a lot of them other than snide remarks
Anyone got an FT sub/the ability to go and get the text of this article? https://www.ft.com/.../f9051f66-cfbe-4b36-848e-3980225ae542 obvs EU ain't great but want to radicalise people with tories choosing a pure brexit over their nan
Lads this thread has been at bump limit for a while so I made a new one NEW THREAD >>400609

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