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Communist survivor , AMA Anonymous 11/21/2020 (Sat) 17:27:12 No. 1157879
Born in 75, lived 15 years of communism through the end of 89. Spoiler: it was bad, very bad. INB4 : But real communism has never been tried. Maybe. But what and how would you change ?
post chin
>>1157879 >But what and how would you change ? Democracy, freedom of speech, more consumer goods, etc
Why should we care about your experience?
I am cuban it works very well for me, my uncle lived in estonia in the USSR, he said it was much better before they sold off all the industry to euros and anglos and legalised child porn, which they did when they re-installed capitalism. Also the amount of prostitutes skyrocketed. Communism was so much less degenerate
>>1157879 oh so I see you lived through capitalist revisionism, not socialism
Где вы?
>>1157895 >>1157907 Because it's 1st hand experience of how communism worked out You should not care , I don't need sympathy. I am here to tell you stories. >>1157899 >my uncle lived in estonia in the USSR Yeah, all the boomers here suffer from nostalgia as well. But they are old and people cant change after a certain age. Plus, the actual people that got right the new oligharcs made are ex commie officials that were in the position to rob the public property right after the Revolution
>>1157879 Which country my dude?
>>1157918 if you were a scholar 100 years from now, how much value would you assign to a 1st hand experience of today?
>>1157918 >Plus, the actual people that got right the new oligharcs made are ex commie officials that were in the position to rob the public property right after the Revolution I mean, after the Revolution, a new class of newly enriched came out, and it turns out they were all ex commie or police officials
>>1157879 >my dad works at nintendo
>>1157920 Romania> >1157921 >if you were a scholar 100 years from now, If I lived 100 years ago and someone from the future came to tell me what will actually happen ? What do you think ?
>>1157888 >Democracy <Not bad in itself, but define your terms. Representative multiparty democracy is bourgeois bullshit >freedom of speech <Within specific tolerances. People should have the right to say that the system isn’t working how they want or to not be sent to the gulag for complaining about shit >more consumer goods <GTfO.
>>1157879 Excellent thread! Your example proves that not 100% of the citizens of communist republics liked communist regimes. And that's about it. >>1157918 >Yeah, all the boomers here suffer from nostalgia as well. >But they are old >All the other eyewitnesses opinion is invalid cuz you're wrong >My opinion is a fact cuz I'm right. Classic.
>>1157932 >People should have the right to say that the system isn’t working how they want or to not be sent to the gulag for complaining about shit What if the system is actually not working ? Why the common people shouldn't have an opinion ? This surpression of thought is actually what led to the downfall of communism.
>>1157930 That makes sense. But how much of that is literal communism and just Ceausescu being a dipshit? You lived through one of the worst and dysfunctional communist regimes with a guy who literally took on too many debts and ushered a pro-natalist nightmare.
>>1157935 Did you read the stuff that you’ve quoted? I am literally saying that people shouldn’t be sent to the Gulag for complaining or being dissatisfied or proposing adjustment to the system.
Born in 1990, lived 30 years of capitalism till today. Spoiler: it is bad, very bad. INB4 : But real capitalism has never been tried. Maybe. But what and how would you change ?
>>1157918 >Yeah, all the boomers here suffer from nostalgia as well. >But they are old and people cant change after a certain age. You are claiming in the OP that we should believe and listen to you because you're an eyewitness. NOW you are suddenly (not really) saying that being an eyewitness and their opinion doesn't matter. Don't you think you should pick one?
>>1157938 >But how much of that is literal communism I never said it was by the book communism. That's why I'm asking how would you make it better / change >>1157933 > not 100% of the citizens I would say not 90% of the citizens like it. Otherwise it would have survived. >My opinion is a fact cuz I'm right. I never said that. But the fact is that these people are old, too old to adapt to a new life anymore, similarly to how someone born after 2000 would have a hard time living the life we did. >>1157942 >Did you read the stuff that you’ve quoted? I am literally saying that people shouldn’t be sent to the Gulag for complaining or being dissatisfied or proposing adjustment to the system. Oh, sorry, got it the other way
>>1157953 >90% HAHAHAHA
>>1157948 >You are claiming in the OP that we should believe and listen to you because you're an eyewitness. NOW you are suddenly (not really) saying that being an eyewitness and their opinion doesn't matter. I am not that old. People suffering of communism nostalgia are here are 60+
>>1157879 >wont even tell state he was in fuck off larper >it was bad, very bad so much that majority of ppl that lived under it regret it pretty bad b8, why polyp think those fake testimony have somehow any value in a discussion is beyond me
Even if it wasn't perfect, socialism was still better than capitalism
>>1157918 hes not a boomer and he is literally angry that they legalised child porn under capitalism in estonia. I don't see why you would be against that. Child porn is digusting
>People suffering of communism nostalgia are here are 60+ https://transylvanianow.com/ceausescu-still-most-beloved-president-of-romania/ >65% of romanians have a good opinion of Ceausescu WOWZIE! Never knew that 65% of Romanians are above the age of 60!
>>1157918 It's been 30 fucking years and your country is still a shit hole. It's about time to realize that muh free markets aren't giving you jack shit. But we all know you'll still be saying this same shit 100 years from now. Just like how the Democrats are totally just around the corner from being able to run an AOC type candidate to a landslide win every election
>>1157962 I did see >>1157930 No bait , why people don't actually ask questions about how it was instead of bitching ? >>1157943 >lived 30 years of capitalism till today. You have nothing to compare to. >>1157972 >they legalised child porn under capitalism in estonia I really don' think that is true. You misunderstood. >>1157974 >https://transylvanianow.com You might want to try a real source. > 65% of Romanians are above the age of 60 Work force is 40% here. Rest is kids or retired.
my grandpa (god rest his soul) fought in republican spain, he said life was never as good as during the revolution
>>1157959 >I am not that old. How do you know you aren't that old? You're 45, the natural lifespan of humanity is 30. I say we shouldn't listen to your dementia ramblings. You said it yourself that opinion of old people is worthless.
>>1157959 Kinda bad at math there since that would put them being born before 1960 as someone born in 1970 would be 50 and would have turned an adult with the collapse of the Berlin Wall. Also lets face it the 21st century is the worst century in human history and it also correlates with capitalism declaring itself undisputed champion.
>>1157985 I wish there was a revolution so I could just die in it.
>>1157953 There are many proposals, but I think that there should be more direct democracy within the government. That’s to say that you would have local councils that decide stuff at the local level, and delegates that would move to a national council. How things would be decided is either through majoritarian democracy (with minoritarian dissent, like the US supreme court), or through consensus democracy (the delegates deiberate until a unanimous decision can be reached.) In terms of the economy, one should never borrow debts that have to be paid back through austerity measures. Debt is a method by which creditors impose bondage upon debtors. Freedom of expression should be tolerated to a degree. People shouldn’t be frightened of the governments set up to serve them. But there’s a difference between complaining about waiting in line and saying we should stage a counterrevolution and install a fascist dictatorship or neoliberal “democracy”. Most people during the 80s and 90s in the Soviet Union, for example, just wanted the economy to liberalize a bit, not to go full capitalist. But the west pushed capitalists until they got into power and dismantled the workers’ state.
>>1157986 >the natural lifespan of humanity is 30. Not true. There are a lot of finding of Stone Age people over 30. >we shouldn't listen to your dementia ramblings Touche. But my memory is still good. >>1157987 >would have turned an adult with the collapse of the Berlin Wall. I was 15 at that time. Literally, still school. Do the math again >>1157992 Bad shit happened in Russia and ex commie countries in the first years of "democracy" . Because people were so damn poor ! That doesn't mean it was legal
>>1158001 No I meant your calculation that people nostalgic for communism would be 60+ years old is off by 10 years since those 50+ would still have adult memories of communism.
Please comrade, embrace jihad, do an attack on global jewish capitalism
>>1157983 >You might want to try a real source. >http://www.balkanalysis.com/romania/2011/12/27/in-romania-opinion-polls-show-nostalgia-for-communism/ Citing polls conducted by Romanian government, Soros Foundation, and others.
>>1158001 it is in the source bro, they made it legal as part of liberal free love, this is capitalism, which is liberalism. They were poor specifically because they weren't socialist any more. When they destroyed the soviet union, with CIA rigged elections, its GDP halved and has never recovered. The soviet union was the most prosperous ever time in the history of Russia and eastern europe
>>1157998 >But the west pushed capitalists until they got into power and dismantled the workers’ state. It's true, the western interest "helped" a lot. But objectively speaking, I now have the possibility to go anywhere in the world if I don't like it here anymore, even Cuba. >>1158017 >No I meant your calculation that people nostalgic for communism would be 60+ The 60s+ seem to be the nostalgic ones. Maybe because they are not working anymore and isolated from the actual world >>1158024 There is a category of people nostalgic , as I said. >Soros Foundation Yeah, no
>>1158038 >Yeah, no Without Soros, Romania would not have been liberated from Communism. He is your savior and messiah and you reject him like the Jews rejected Jesus Christ.
>>1158038 That is why Ostalgie includes children programs from the 1970's-1980's oh wait that kinda proves my point.
>>1157879 >born in 75 This is retarded then. By the time you really could’ve grasped society on any meaningful level (age 13+) it was already 1988 when the USSR was basically dying and socialism was transitioning to shock therapy capitalism. You even know what historical materialism is?
>>1157953 >I would say not 90% of the citizens like it. Otherwise it would have survived. >not because the USSR was isolated from the western world, where the rest of the world was way too underdeveloped to sustain the growth of the USSR. I love these chuds that come from "socialists countries" like Cuba, Venezuela, USSR, and say "ugh failed for this, failed for that" but never go into the real substance. Like totally not propagandized.
>Born in 75 >Meaning early adolesance was all in mid 80's >It wuz bad No shit genius.
>>1157879 > Maybe. But what and how would you change ? cybernetic planning in combination with direct democracy as seen in Switzerland. Biggest thing that led to collapse of the USSR was that they didn't attempt to peruse cybernetics and computerization.
>>1158068 Dude’s from Romania, and Ceausescu was inarguably awful. I’m not saying to be naive, but at least try to engage with people and give them the benefit of a doubt.
>>1158036 >it is in the source bro, they made it legal as part of liberal free love There's no country in Europe where child pornography is legal. Not even Russia. >CIA rigged elections true >The soviet union was the most prosperous ever time I don't know about Russia but certainly not true here. >>1158055 >without Soros, Romania would not have been liberated from Communism. Soros is a globalist. As such, his business interests span in many areas. I wouldn't be surprise if he really had involvement >>1158058 >what historical materialism is? No. I heard from my parents that the 70s where prosperous , but that is true for everywhere in the world. Again , I am not here to praise capitalism , because I dont even think we got the whole deal. I am here just to tell stories. Interested ?
>>1158055 Hahahahaha
>>1158038 >It's true, the western interest "helped" a lot. But objectively speaking, I now have the possibility to go anywhere in the world if I don't like it here anymore, even Cuba. Not if you’re poor, though.
>>1158080 Ceausescu received an FMI credit that eventually obliterated Romania's economy, why in the hell should we consider that ghoul a communist? He sold his soul and now we need to tolerate a guy talking about how bad communism is or was? Nah.
>>1158081 >>what historical materialism is? >No. Figures. You’re from Romania, right? Makes sense. The USSR, GDR, and socialist Czechoslovakia were all far better places to live. Free market capitalism has turned your nation into nothing but a consumerist and backwards shithole for NATO to profit off of.
>>1157924 >I mean, after the Revolution, a new class of newly enriched came out, and it turns out they were all ex commie or police officials So, how is it a problem. You have FREE, TRANSPARENT, WESTERN, DEMOCRATIC elections. They must be good and efficient rulers, otherwise the Romanians would not have elected them, no&
>>1158081 >There's no country in Europe where child pornography is legal. Not even Russia. not now, but they still tried and for a time in Estonia it was so. This is the influence of capitalism. Only the peopel made it not so. This is what capitalists want, to be able to traffick women and girls. This is why sex trafficking went up by 1000% (same source as above if you read) >true if you know the CIA rigged the elections against the communists then how can you support what those people the CIA put in power did? >I don't know about Russia but certainly not true here. it is true for the vast majority of the eastern bloc with a couple of exceptions, it is also true in Cuba, etc. Look at the healthcare system in Vietnam now compared to a similarly sized capitalist country. No comparison. Look at how they dealt with corona. Communism and socialism are far superior. capitalism is degenerate. In Cuba, where I am from, it was Che and Fidel who got rid of Meyer Lansky, owner of casinos and prostitutes, in bed with the mafia, turning cuba into a hub for sex tourism. only socialism got rid of them. Capitalism is degenerate
To be honest, when someone claiming to be (or their family be) from an ex-socialist country, I don’t even care about their opinions if they were born after 1965. By the time they could develop legitimate opinions and real thoughts on society, history, and philosophy (age ~15), it would already be 1980 when the USSR was beginning rapid marketization and was in decay. Bonus points when they’re some liberal stooge that doesn’t grasp Marxism, historical materialism, or Leninism that would just sell out for Nike shoes and Pizza Hut because they would rather sell out the earth and their country to have a slightly better job in West Berlin or London.
>>1158068 >Like totally not propagandized. I am the opposite of propaganda. I am here to share real life experience. >>1158094 >Not if you’re poor, though. Lots of poor people seem to end up as refugees. EU made it easy. Poor people go and work in some other wealthier country >>1158101 >otherwise the Romanians would not have elected them Romanians were even more confused then as they are now. And I am not talking about elected people. Many "enriched" were not part of the public life and received help from the corrupt politicians. By the time all came to light, it was too late ( 20 years later ) >>1158109 >how can you support what those people the CIA put in power did? Who says I do ? There weren't even elections here. The was a Revolution ( with dead people and all the accesories ) about which many people say it was a coupe d'etat . After that, there were "free" elections, but the choices were between krpyto and neo communists. It took a lot of time for the political class to have diversity again >>1158109 >it is true for the vast majority of the eastern bloc with a couple of exceptions The average person now lives a lot better than 30 years ago. How about that ? The difference is glaring. I will now tell you what the boomers are nostalgic about: 1) They say everyone had a job, which is true, people without a job would be arrested. What they forget is that most of jobs were not what people actually waned and that the 80% of the workforce was unqualified. 2) They say everyone had a place to live. Mostly true. What they forget is that the quality of those building was and is utter crap and that they still paid for them - in equal rates over 30 years , exactly as in capitalism 3) They say there was less pornography and degeneration . True, this should be limited somehow, but I don't think it's an inherent in the economic system, it's a systemic problem within today's society
Would you say the prevalence of belief in vampires has increased or decreased since the end of the Ceausescu government?
>>1158162 >Bonus points when they’re some liberal stooge that doesn’t grasp Marxism, historical materialism, or Leninism that would just sell out for Nike shoes and Pizza Hut because they would rather sell out the earth and their country to have a slightly better job in West Berlin or London. You are repeating the same old thing "real communism has not been tried". Well ok. Ask me how it was and tell me what you would change. As about the 50s here : very simple , all the peasants had their property confiscated. If they opposed , shot or jail. All the educated people ended up either in jail or a stooge for the Party. Jails were comparable or worse than Nazi camps. The Russian army was still in Romania and the government had to make desperate efforts for independent actions
>>1158169 >I am the opposite of propaganda. I am here to share real-life experiences. You are the result of propaganda. I live in Venezuela and I know the types of people who will criticize socialism or communism without substance, without historical analysis, etc.
>>1157907 lmfao
это даже не смешно, ведь все пошло по пизде сразу после смерти сталина но горбачев и ельцин это особый сорт пидорасов и отдельная тема для разговора
>>1158169 >Who says I do ? cos you're either on the side of the capitalists or not. >The average person now lives a lot better than 30 years ago. sure but so do people in most places, if you compare like for like and look at comparative living standards, socialism was far superior. You can see it now as I said in Vietnam etc. Cuba. Pornography and degeneration is inherent to capitalism. When power is vested in individuals and not collectives, the perversions of the individual gain power
>>1158169 > 1) They say everyone had a job, which is true, people without a job would be arrested. What they forget is that most of jobs were not what people actually waned and that the 80% of the workforce was unqualified. People under capitalism also don’t wanna shovel shit and dirt, work on septic tanks, having to flips burgers all day or do some degrading task for their boss. The difference was under socialism, at least your shitty job would guarantee you had a home to come back to and food and medicine. Under the capitalist system in the USA, I know people working three jobs that still barely scrape by on rent and can’t go to the doctor because insurance is too expensive. >2) They say everyone had a place to live. Mostly true. What they forget is that the quality of those building was and is utter crap and that they still paid for them - in equal rates over 30 years , exactly as in capitalism A shitty apartment with running water and electricity vs living under a run down high way overpass next to a homeless buddy shooting up Heroin with a dirty needle or getting blacked out drunk on cheap liquor. Gee, I sure wonder what fate is better. >3) They say there was less pornography and degeneration . True, this should be limited somehow, but I don't think it's an inherent in the economic system, it's a systemic problem within today's society A system was created in which women don’t have to shamefully sell their bodies for money, but sadly replaced by capitalism. This is what I fucking despise most about expatriates from ex-socialist countries. They give this huge propaganda and morale boost to capitalism by saying how shit everything was, when for the average Joe in day to day life, socialism was undoubtably better than capitalism. You will go on and on about how the police in socialism are mean, while under capitalism people are literally hoarding insulin and selling out their bodies to make ends meet. A shitty apartment is still leagues better than being homelessness (having my own little apartment here in the Midwest sounds like heaven to me). It’s fucking intellectually dishonest. What even gets me more is these socialist dissidents don’t know their own asshole from Marxist theory and historical materialism. You just know these scummy liberals, if they were bureaucrats in 1989 Russia, would be the first ones selling out the socialist system for their own gain at the expense of humanity. I genuinely hope one day, a wave of red terror sweeps over Romania and Poland, more harsh and brutal and blood thirsty than even the likes of Lenin and his Cheka could’ve conceived of. All reactionaries should be shot. Thread should be locked.
>it's not even funny, because everything went down the cunt right after Stalin's death but Gorbachev and Yeltsin are a special kind of fagots and a separate topic of conversation incredibly based
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>>1158169 >The average person now lives a lot better than 30 years ago. Then why does everyone in the world think the 21st century sucks thus stuck dreaming about the 20th century? Capitalism had won in 1990 and yet the world went to shit to the point no matter where you are in the world the motto "make *blank* great again" is applicable".
>>1158220 From the russian speaking anon
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>>1158171 >prevalence of belief in vampires has increased or decreased Nobody actually believes that >1158197 >will criticize socialism or communism >>1158208 >you're either on the side of the capitalists or not. That's the problem with you people. You see the world in black or white when it's actually grey. >>1158162 Forgot. I work in IT and make a decent buck. I didn't sell out nor left the country
>>1158219 this is based but, the thread should remain unlocked so you can continue to be based
>>1158235 Its not grey. Its clear as day if you've actually done the homework. There is worker power, and there is capitalist power. Capitalists will do anything they can to exploit the workers, the workers should do anything they can to stop this.
>>1158219 >A shitty apartment with running water and electricity Interestingly you say that. Most of the times we had no running water or heat ! Electricity was turned off 1 hour / day, every day >most about expatriates I am not an expat >I genuinely hope one day, a wave of red terror sweeps over Romania and Poland, more harsh and brutal and blood thirsty than even the likes of Lenin and his Cheka could’ve conceived of. All reactionaries should be shot. Thread should be locked. You are sick in the head
>>1158252 capitalists are sick in the head. They should not exist
How much did you have to pay for education? What about housing? How was unemployment dealt with? What about healthcare, was it cheap? Did you have alot of free time?
>>1158252 >Interestingly you say that. Most of the times we had no running water or heat ! Electricity was turned off 1 hour / day, every day Wait, wait, wait. Are you OP criticizing communism and not you say that in Romania is happening these things? How you cope this hard? Errn.. I really hope you don't start to say that it was communism fault your current situation.
>>1158262 He doesn't know that shit. He was like 6 by the time communism was overthrown in his country.
>>1158272 See >>1157975 They will blame communism for their countries continuing to be shitholes until the end of time
>>1158272 >Errn.. I really hope you don't start to say that it was communism fault your current situation. Too late >>1157924 >>1158169
>>1158252 >Electricity was turned off 1 hour / day, every day Holy shit, you’re telling me in basically poorest eastern bloc country (besides socialist Mongolia) you only had to turn off electricity for one hour out of each day? That sounds like fucking paradise compared to people herehaving to preform sexual favors or working 85 hours a week. My family gets our electricity turned off quite often because of bills. If for only one hour out of the day I can’t have electricity, then sign me the fuck up! You lucky. >You are sick in the head You’re sick in the head. Why would you wanna force me to sell out my body and life to some capitalist? Only having to deal with having power 23 hours a day is amazing compared to what I have you liberal stooge
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>>1158252 >Most of the times we had no running water or heat ! >Electricity was turned off 1 hour / day, every day Damn bro really rough
>>1158242 >Its not grey. It is. Every system has flaws and pluses. Nothing is perfect. >here is worker power, and there is capitalist power What about a modest farmer working on his property . Is he a worker or a capitalist ? >How much did you have to pay for education? Education was state only, so I guess everyone paid. Nowadays there are private universities and such, but most of the education system is still the public system. Some years ago I enrolled in a private college , computer science because having a diploma would get me 10% taxes. I paod 1000 euros / year for it for 3 years . so 3000 total. >What about housing? Hosing was stil paid and how much it costs would be totally irrelevant in today's money. Nothing was free. >How was unemployment dealt with? Not really entertained. I am not sure about the money, but after a while you would get jail if not willing to work. >What about healthcare, was it cheap? Healthcare was and still is mostly public. Its not cheap, I pay around 300 euros / month and its not optional. Not sure how much it was under communism but it was very very corrupt ( still mostly is ) >Did you have alot of free time? 6 days of work / week , 8-10 hours a day depending on the field. You do the math
>>1158272 >Are you OP criticizing communism and not you say that in Romania is happening these things? How you cope this hard? Those things happened under communism, they don't happen anymore. Yes, in Romania but I think in most other USSR countries. It's exactly what I came here to tell >>1158291 >you only had to turn off electricity for one hour out of each day? Not we had to. It was turned off by the power station Here where ? >You’re sick in the head. Why would you wanna force me to sell out my body and life to some capitalist? Why would you sell your body ? Haven't you learnt any other skill ?
>>1158298 >It is. Every system has flaws and pluses. Nothing is perfect. Didn't say it was, just that capitalists rule the world and they exploit people like you and me, if you are a worker. >What about a modest farmer working on his property . Is he a worker or a capitalist ? If he is feeding himself and perhaps selling on a little he is a peasant farmer, a worker of sorts, but this sort of person is rare outside the third world and even in the third world these days becoming rarer. If he employs waged labour he is petit bourgeoisie
>>1158306 >Here where ? The United States of America. If under poor socialist Romania you only had your power off for one hour a day, that’s still a lot better than many of the people I know in supposedly the richest capitalist state on the planet. And yet you still somehow detest socialism, you opportunist.
>>1157921 To be fair WWI was 100 years ago and we put a decent amount of stock in people’s experience of the war
>>1158321 >power off for one hour a day, that’s still a lot better than many of the people I know in supposedly the richest capitalist state on the planet. So in the US, the state turns off your power ? Do you really not see a difference between not paying for it and being forced to not use it ? Or do you think that under Romanian communism , electricity was free ? It was not, and if not paid it was equally cut by the provider.
>>1158317 >a worker of sorts, but this sort of person is rare outside the third world and even in the third world these days becoming rarer. If he employs waged labour he is petit bourgeoisie No, it's not rare. Many people here returned to small farming and might time employ other people to help them - but in a temps regime. They are far from burgeoisie since they make under 10k euros / year
>>1158306 >Those things happened under communism, they don't happen anymore. >Yes, in Romania but I think in most other USSR countries. It's exactly what I came here to tell Dude you still have outages in Romania: http://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/470131560793126612/pdf/Resilient-Infrastructure-for-Thriving-Firms-A-Review-of-The-Evidence.pdf You only don't see it probably because those are in the rural areas and you live comfy in an apartment in the urban city.
>>1158349 in comparison to 50 years ago, yes it is extremely rare today. Do not make me embarrass you with the figures. You knowing some people who farm does not make it not rare, it just means you know these rare people. Bourgeoisie isn't a measure of income earning, it describes class. If your farming grandpa or whatever lives off subsistence and occasionally get some help in, hes still mostly a worker. If hes got 5 seasonal labourers every year, hes petit bourg.
>>1158340 This is what I criticize liberals like you for. Absolutely WHAT MATERIAL DIFFERENCE does it make if it’s the state versus a private business turning off your power? At least under socialism, I wouldn’t have to keep giving a guy blow jobs for him to help pay off my electricity bill and rent (which I know multiple people do here in the state of Wisconsin). One of my friends, she does that and has been wanting an IUD to avoid pregnancy and some vaccines but sadly her rent takes up all the money she could use to get healthcare. What irks me perhaps beyond all else is the liberal’s insistence that life is better now because you can buy McDonald’s, gucci gang, and and star bucks consumer goods when now people are homeless and hungry. To the liberals mind, petty “free speech” (so long as it isn’t anti-capitalist, one of the earliest acts being the Sedition acts that censored protest against capitalism imperialism in WW1) and fucking cholesterol-filled McDonalds is better than making sure everyone has medicine and education. You should’ve been sent to a forced labor camp in eastern Poland to be re-educated or shot if your line of thinking is so fried and pro-liberalism.
>>1157879 >muh anecdotes >trust me, i am my own primary source If it was at least real and not entirely made up bullshit. There were no shortages for heating or water supply or anything basic, nobody had to ever fear for their life simply of economic reasons, which also goes for food supply. Famines, food shortages and malnutrition were ended by the soviets and all socialist states. My family went from a wooden shed with a stove for heating and an outhouse for shit into a modern appartment that they never had any issues with. My grand-grandmother received housing and health care by professionals while my grandmother was left on her own with her son with dementia living in a falling apart farmhouse thanks to capitalism. Go fuck yourself.
>>1158365 >giving a guy blow jobs for him to help pay off my electricity bill and rent that's called a relationship
>>1158081 why would we be interested in the stories of a fucking ignorant retard that somehow think he know a system he basically didnt live under ?
>>1158368 The woman in question already works multiple jobs and STILL needs to do that to make all ends meet. But don’t worry, capitalism is somehow better because we don’t have the oppressive KGB or Stasi, just the FBI and CIA and MI6 :^)
>>1158355 >Dude you still have outages in Romania: Yes, there are still outages. The power company which is still largely a monopoly, hasnt invested anything since the 70s. So, who is at fault here ? Not the fact that it's a monopoly ? Add outages to 1 hour / day state mandated power economy and you get the communist picture >>1158365 > At least under socialism, I wouldn’t have to keep giving a guy blow jobs for him to help pay off my electricity bill and rent False, as I explained, they weren't free. So BJs or not, you still had to do SOMETHING
>So, who is at fault here ? Not the fact that it's a monopoly ? <he believes it's better if his energy grid is privatized how fucking stupid are you ?
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>>1157879 nice redditposting faggot
>>1158081 I can confirm this actually, my grandmothers best friends daughter ended up being sex trafficked after the collapse of the soviet union. It is for this reason actually above all others she preferred communism to the shit we had now. t. russian anon
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>>1158376 >So, who is at fault here ? Not the fact that it's a monopoly ? Yep, ideologized by over 1200 prageru videos. Communism ceased to exist decades ago, and still blames communism. >>1158380 lel, op said he's not propagandized.
>>1157879 >Born in 75, lived 15 years of communism through the end of 89 So you were 14 by the time communism fell and you're here to offer a very thorough analysis of communism under a pre-pubescent view, huh?
>>1158380 >how fucking stupid are you ? explain to me how the fact that they are a monopoly and changed any equipment since the 1970s is good ?
>>1158376 >False, as I explained, they weren't free. So BJs or not, you still had to do SOMETHING Are you intentionally strawmanning me? My point is under socialism all you had to do was work a job and you got your house and medicine. Under capitalism, you have to work 2 jobs to pay off education, give blow jobs to help with rent, and then sell your stuff to buy drugs because life under the capitalist system is do draining and miserable you need something to cope with it. Is there a place where I can directly message a mod to request this thread be locked? The liberals need to be contained. Thread is pointless. OP thinks McDonald’s and wage labor is better than medicine and housing.
Nicaragua anon here. Socialism saved us from cocaine bandits funded by the CIA
>>1158394 *have't changed >>1158392 >So you were 14 by the time communism fell Yes, and the most vivid memories of my life I have are under 10
>>1158394 >explain to me how the fact that they are a monopoly and changed any equipment since the 1970s is good ? Rather ask yourself this question: Is that capitalist fault or communist fault. protip: you don't change the way capitalism evolve into monopolies with more capitalism, nor "free market"
its actually funny you write this cos my great grandmother actually got her feet bound in China pre Mao. That is where the feet of a women are broken to make them smaller. Mao abolished this and polygamy, so my family has mostly good things to say about Maos china. I don't live there personally I live in india but that is where my whole family is from we only moved here when I was 12
>>1158401 Do you really not recognize the problem of asking someone under the age of 10 to explain and recognize the fault of a certain sociopolitical system? Do you not think you may have partly been swept up in liberal propaganda and that there’s a reason people miss the old days before Gorbachev, Ceausescu, Dubcek, Kadar, and Yelstin? The days of truly planned socialism and the central economy? Or did the apple earbuds and shitty produced foreign care rot out your frontal lobe too much?
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>>1158398 > 2 jobs to pay off education, give blow jobs to help with rent, and then sell your stuff to buy drugs What education do you have ? Ask yourself, did you really need it ? >drugs I hope you're talking about medicine I am not sure about your situation, I think it's sad, but I can honestly tell you that not everyone has it that bad, and not everyone had it good under communism. Most of the people had a bad situation , in fact. >>1158405 > Is that capitalist fault or communist fault. It is a monopoly because the infracstructure was set up as a monopoly. Entering the market is very difficult for a new company, but there have been attempts. >>1158405 > Is that capitalist fault or communist fault.
>>1158417 Lemme guess, you in west bengal? I’m an american, but my parents grew up in eastern india and there was a smattering of chinese folk where she was at. Though I know sinophobia is rampant there.
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>>1158426 certified retard
>>1158429 i live further west than that but you are not far off
>>1158432 Kek caleb is literally just a living meme
>>1158400 what do you mean cocaine bandits funded by the CIA i don't believe you?
>>1158426 >It is a monopoly because the infrastructure was set up as a monopoly. Entering the market is very difficult for a new company, but there have been attempts. Then welcome to actual capitalism, bud.
>>1158439 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair its true, went on for years, not the only example. All just to fight the people wanting the best for themselves under socialism
>>1158426 >communist fault. It is a monopoly because the infrastructure was set up as a monopoly. Entering the market is very difficult for a new company, but there have been attempts. <Ok, bro communism has gone from Romania bro. Good bro, finally we have water and electricity >outages still happen in Romania <well bro, it's because of monopoly in the power production. totally not capitalist fault >monopolies can only exist under capitalism because the money flows always to fewer hands, while in socialism planned production and economy lead to a redistribution of wealth, means people can form cooperatives to produce electricity. <no bro IT'S COMMUNISM'S FAULT. Kindly proof that monopolies, oligopolies, aren't related to capitalism. Protip: You can't
I actually lived in Romania about the same time as you, our lives sound kinda similar. All my family liked communism though
>>1158433 >certified retard why ? any attempt at reason before name calling or that 's it ?
>>1158426 >What education do you have ? Ask yourself, did you really need it ? High school education. Under capitalism you need to purchase your own notebooks, utensils, and sometimes additions to a text book. Someone I knew in high school ran out of supplies and had to share notebook paper and take notes the palm of her hand. Many people I know go just for a general associates degree (which is basically the new high school diploma here in the US of A) which costs at least 5 thousand+ dollars. Education for a bachelors, graduate, or doctorate degree can cost anywhere from 20 to 100+ thousand dollars. >I hope you're talking about medicine I’m talking about anything from Cannabis to anti-depressant SSRIs to heroin and oxycodone. My own dad became an opioid addict after the back damage he endured overworking for a construction boss. I know too many people that dull the horrors of capitalist reality with LSD or amphetamine. >I am not sure about your situation, I think it's sad, but I can honestly tell you that not everyone has it that bad, and not everyone had it good under communism. Most of the people had a bad situation , in fact. You’re not sure because it contradicts what your parents told you. There’s a reason pro-capitalist liberals ought to be executed. Life was certainly better under the old socialist regimes than under the dogmatic chaos of the market.
Born in 90, lived 15 years of Jan Pawel's papacy Spoiler: it was bad, very bad. INB4 : But real catholicism has never been tried. Maybe. But what and how would you change ?
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>>1158445 >>monopolies can only exist under capitalism because the money flows always to fewer hands, while in socialism planned production and economy lead to a redistribution of wealth, means people can form cooperatives to produce electricity. I am not here to tell about what could be in a utopian future. I am here to tell what actually happened. What do you think it would've happened if anyone attempted to produce his own electricity under Ceausescu ? >>1158450 >High school education. High school ed got you in debts ? Mhm, yeah >I’m talking about anything from Cannabis to anti-depressant SSRIs to heroin and oxycodone. Well, I have some news for you. Under Ceausecu you would've been locked away in an asylum, indeed free housing and drugs :))))))))))
>>1158460 >What do you think it would've happened if anyone attempted to produce his own electricity under Ceausescu ? Read this t h o r o u g h l y >>1158097
>>1158460 in the us u get locked away in real prison and forced to perform slave labor
>>1158460 could you respond to my post i want to know if you are on the side of the capitalist cocaine bandits who killed so many in my country or not what do you think of the Contras in Nicaragua?
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>>1158451 I lived in Byzantine I papacy, it was the best. It was the real catholicism. AMA
>>1158464 you also get forced to be a firefighter, they don't pay you, then you;re not allowed to be afirefighter after jail. Working in jail actual slave labour in america right now to this day
>>1158464 >in the us u get locked away in real prison and forced to perform slave labor Prison was slave labor here as well. Many inmates have been sent to work at the "Channel" as we called it. Ceausescu waned to build a channel between the Danube and the Black Sea - hundreds of kms of forced labour. Asylums were only for junkies and insane. >>1158465 I am not on anyone's side. I really can't speak for your country, I am here only to tell my story in my own country >f you are on the side of the capitalist cocaine bandits who killed so many in my country or not
>>1158439 Just to add up to >>1158442, the US funded criminal syndicates across all of Latin America during the Cold War, in order to undermine labour movements and socialist orgs. That when they 'didn't' manage to overthrow the government and install a puppet dictatorship.
>>1158466 >I lived in Byzantine I papacy, it was the best. It was the real catholicism. >AMA yout opinion on Constantine V Copronymos?
>>1158471 i think you dont get it per law you are a slave sold to pirvate prisons the US needs a high prison population to make money
>>1158460 >High school ed got you in debts ? Mhm, yeah You’re starting to show your real colors. And YES!!!! When I first was starting middle school, my family and I had to literally stand in the line of some social program that age out free back packs, glue, notebooks, pencils, and scissors to kids. Of course, there was never enough. >Well, I have some news for you. Under Ceausecu you would've been locked away in an asylum, indeed free housing and drugs :)))))))))) Just like under capitalism now, except I would also have to preform slave labor too in capitalist prisons!!! Freedom!!!!!! You’re fucking delusional. This is why liberals need the bullet. After you’ve been called out on your BS, you still keep going.
>>1158463 Why do you think that Ceausescu needed to take that credit ?
Born in 22, lived 30 years of stalinism Spoiler: it was good, very good. INB4 : But real stalinism has never been tried. Maybe. But what and how would you change ?
>>1158482 >But what and how would you change ? Eliminate Corn Man.
>>1158477 >the US needs a high prison population to make money Yeah, I heard about that and its pretty shady. >>1158479 >When I first was starting middle school >social programs I don't get it, the social programs got you in debt ? >After you’ve been called out on your BS What bulshit my dear ? I am not trying to convince anyone. It's just stories. You can believe it or not. Either way..
How many haciendas and peones did your abuelito owned before the evil commies expropiated them?
Dad born in 69, lived 21 years of market socialism. Spoiler: it was based, very based. INB4:market socialism isn't real socialism. Maybe. But suck a phatone bros.
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>>1158490 >I don't get it, the social programs got you in debt ? No, not me specifically. But I know plenty of people who weren’t covered in the various welfare programs. Often times their families had to burrow, steal, or sell so they could get enough supplies to be able to learn without scribbling notes on their wrist. You were likely privileged enough to growing up during the dying days of socialist education, when education had few expenses. >What bulshit my dear ? I am not trying to convince anyone. It's just stories. You can believe it or not. This isn’t genuine. The point of this thread you made wasn’t for legitimate discussion and records, but just as an ideological forum to shit on a system you were both too young and now too ignorant to understand. It’s the same fundamental form as the likes of Ben Shapiro and Steven Crowder claiming they “just want an honest, open discussion”. You made this thread to say “socialism is super scary and bad!” And when people actually respond with real facts, rationality, and pointing out things are still worse under capitalism you just dismiss with them with essentially “no’s” and “these are just my personal stories”. You have nothing to peddle but liberal horsecock. You are not acting in good faith. I should’ve been saging this thread from the start. MODS WHERE ARE YOU? LOCK THREAD ALREADY
>>1158505 Based Tito Gang
Born in '76 here, do the math yourself. 1989 was the dumbest downgrade ever. Fucking liberals.
>>1158480 Because he split with the USSR, Romania benefactor before the USSR-Romania split.
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>it was bad, very bad Good.
>>1158505 Did Yugoslavia really have it that good ? How much did a car cost and how much time you waited on one ? Here it was like 1-5 years waiting time. >>1158516 >he point of this thread you made wasn’t for legitimate discussion and records, but just as an ideological forum to shit on a system you were both too young and now too ignorant to understand. Legitimate discussion is what I want, but nobody here wants to ask question and discuss what was wrong, instead they all keep repeating : "Yeaaah but muh cappitalism bad" It 's you that derail the discussion. I specifically opened the thread to talk about communism !!!
>>1158516 Guy is just trolling at this point, aware his bootleg anecdote got BTFO.
>>1158474 Not real catholicism, the catholicism was under Constantine I, the 13th Apostol.
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>>1158523 >Because he split with the USSR what are you talking about ? are you talking about that time that Ceausescu didnt kiss russian ass and didn't support an invasion of Poland in 1981 ? The FMI lease was taken way before that
>>1158533 >Here it was like 1-5 years waiting time. Based, fuck cars.
>>1158533 If you wanted an honest discussion on socialism you would’ve been one of the first to admit that under socialism you didn’t have to worry about homelessness, food, or medicine. Unlike the inferior capitalist system, you’d admit education was free under socialism, and that it was better off having an apartment in socialism than having to literally suck dick to make rent under capitalism. That’s because you are like every other expat traitor. Even though by very real metrics socialism was superior, you’ll argue the opposite because the police weren’t so mean to your dad under capitalism :( and under capitalism you can by Levi’s and Burger King :) You’re not acting in good faith. Mods lock this shirt down now pls
>>1158533 Yugoslavia always struggled with unemployment more than all other socialist countries. It was allowed to exist as an alternative to Warsaw pact. After the danger of the Soviet Union passed, US demolished it.
>>1158555 >glass stalls What's the point? Just put the toilets out in the open.
>>1158556 That’s because Yugoslavia was a capitalist state with markets and millionaires similar to China after 1976.
>>1158561 Even though the cursed image existed for years before COVID-19, even the glass stalls help prevent the spread of diseases such as Coronavirus. SARS, influenza, TB, and surely STIs?
>>1158555 >If you wanted an honest discussion on socialism you would’ve been one of the first to admit that under socialism you didn’t have to worry about homelessness, food, or medicine. Unlike the inferior capitalist system, you’d admit education was free under socialism, and that it was better off having an apartment in socialism than having to literally suck dick to make rent under capitalism. Again , you begin with the capitalism. No, objectively , I do not care about capitalism. My first 15 years of life sucked and I am here to tall you all about it ! >you are like every other expat traitor Again, I am not an expat. I stuck with my shitty country and managed to do something of myself. You have a short memory ! Let me tell you something that was horribile : No freedom of speech and threat of jail. As a 7 yo I was afraid I'd go to jail because I called Ceausescu - "Ceausica" in front of some of my play mates
>>1158567 Seems like that would only be helpful if people had explosive diarrhea so powerful it escaped the bowl.
>>1158569 >I was 15 when the USSR fell, I think this gives me an accurate view of life under socialism
>>1157879 >Born in 75, lived 15 years of communism through the end of 89. We all hate soviet "communism" from the 70s onward. Not sure how much communism you have experienced conciously if it ended when you were 15 tbh. You're hardly fully conscious and aware of reality at 15. I wonder how much of your negative experience with "communism" comes from your formative years being in the last few years of collapse and the hell that occurred from 89 until now.
>>1158555 Dude, I think the OP has some serious misconceptions and needs to apply some perspective to their experiences, but this is pretty dickish. There’s a difference between people who use their personal experience to make conclusions without taking context into account and gusanos who shill for capitalism. I agree that the OP took a lot of shit for granted that was provided even under the worst mockery of socialism in Eastern Europe and doesn’t recognize that what he enjoys under capitalism isn't guaranteed even under a high price. But the fellow is talking in good faith, and that allows for dialogue. And really? “Expat Traitors?” Like my fucking immigrant parents were traitors to their country? They didn’t come from a former communist country, but this has the same energy as “be grateful this country let people like you in.”
>>1158576 >>1158577 > You're hardly fully conscious and aware of reality at 15 I was conscious enough to have vivid memories and to analyze them later. I remember long lines at 5 in the morning where I would wait with my grandpa for aliments. I remember the stores being empty and only canned food or bottles of "zacuska" being available. I remember living in a shithole flat where my grandparents have been forcefully moved. I remember that everyone had to pretend they loved Ceausescu, sing about him and talk nicely, even though nobody did
>>1158592 >romanian oh my apologies, i was under the impression you were russian or soviet Almost everyone here hates Ceausescu, he was a fucktard >what would you do differently almost everything if that retard is the starting point
>>1158601 >>1158592 All i can wish upon you and your countrymen is realise that ceausescu being a grade A cunt and his entire government being tyranical and against the benefit of the population, living as a slave to germany and western european capital is not the best you can do. Your country is being plundered as we speak, farmers from my western european country are moving to romania, buying up vast swathes of land with subsidies and driving the remaining romanian farmers further into poverty, all while keeping the money themselves. Trust me, farmers in western europe are not altriustic. All the idiocy about kulaks in the easrlie USSR is actually true for western european farmers. They are multimillionaires who are highly organised into formal and informal unions. They have used that orginisation to attack government officials and paralize my country when we told them they had to halve the lifestock as per agreements made 10 years earlier, when 90% of their production is for export and they are killing off the wildlife of the entire area.
>>1158589 False. Read Marx >It is high time that Communists should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, their tendencies, and meet this nursery tale of the Spectre of Communism with a manifesto of the party itself. The communists have nothing to apologize to for; nothing to reform. The soviet socialist is undisputedly superior to the liberal capitalist system. Apologizing for the victories of socialism is liberal and defeatist. OP is not acting in good faith and this must be understood before participating in the thread. >And really? “Expat Traitors?” Like my fucking immigrant parents were traitors to their country? They didn’t come from a former communist country, but this has the same energy as “be grateful this country let people like you in.” Yes. All reaction must be crushed by liberating red terror. Just as how I expect my parents to be put before a worker’s firing squad for their support of the liberal, capitalist system, so too should you support your parents and family having the same fate. All adults that support the supremacy of capital are enemies of the human race. Enemies of Mother Earth. They should practically be un-personed. For the people!
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>>1158617 Okay, Pavel Morozov.
>>1158617 >Just as how I expect my parents to be put before a worker’s firing squad for their support of the liberal, capitalist system, so too should you support your parents and family having the same fate. All adults that support the supremacy of capital are enemies of the human race. Enemies of Mother Earth. They should practically be un-personed. For the people! How are you different from the Nazis persecuting Jews ? Many Jews were /are liberals as well and ended in camps >>1158612 >Trust me, farmers in western europe are not altriustic. Nobody thinks that. We all know the deal. >and paralize my country Where are you from ?
>>1158522 based
>>1158617 >communists have nothing to apologize to for well, i don't like the rightard whining about aPolOGiZe fOR YA cRimEs (despite the fact that many communist parties did that) but admitting mistakes or even crimes is good for optics >nothing to reform > soviet socialist is undisputedly superior to the liberal capitalist system there were many things to reform in the USSR >All reaction must be crushed by liberating red terror LARP >>1158627 >ok, Pavka Morozov ?
>>1158629 >Where are you from ? Netherlands. Fuck these farmers. Owning a multimillion dollar company, getting vast subsidies from the EU, destroying the environment both locally and globally for profitability, and then acting like terrorists when told they have to halve their lifestock numbers when even with that halving the numbers are still ludicrous.
>>1157975 the harsh truth
>>1158634 Responding to second half of >>1158617
>>1157879 your country is literally MORE of a shithole than before. It has not changed not because of capitalism or socialism but because your country sucks. Sorry bro but your countrymen just suck and can NEVER dig themselves out of the hole of not being corporative
>>1158376 >So, who is at fault here ? Not the fact that it's a monopoly ? Do tell me how you are going to create competition in a sector that is naturally monopolistic. You want them to set up two seperate grids next to each other?
>>1158617 Wow this is genius! Communism will happen after all non-communists have been executed. Why didn't Marx think of this?
"communist survivor" isn't much of an accomplishment considering populations skyrocketed under Soviet rule.
>>1158569 >managed to do something of myself Do you know of survivorship bias? Do you think this experience is similar to the experience of the average person or majority of people?
>>1158646 this guys country is only known for prostitutions and he is acting like capitalism saved it. His country is worse off
>>1158634 >Pavel Trofimovich Morozov (Russian: Па́вел Трофи́мович Моро́зов; 14 November 1918 – 3 September 1932), better known by the diminutive Pavlik, was a Soviet youth praised by the Soviet press as a martyr. His story, dated to 1932, is that of a 13-year-old boy who denounced his father to the authorities and was in turn killed by his family.
>>1158552 The FMI loan happened AFTER the breaking point between Rumania and the USSR. The FMI is a political tool and they didn't lend to USSR countries or countries that were friendly to the USSR, i.ex. Cuba.
>>1158569 you do realize after communism fell that your country and EVERY post soviet bloc turned into and STILL has not exited the shitty transition state? Your population, economy and culture are all stagnant and have been since that time.
>>1158637 >Netherlands. So , you are in the west. By western farmers do you mean German farmers ? >>1158643 >your country is literally MORE of a shithole than before. Not true. Many people have high income / high living standards nowadays. Myself, I make a good buck over the average working in IT. What would've been reserved for me under communism ? Who knows... >>1158646 >Do tell me how you are going to create competition in a sector that is naturally monopolistic. You want them to set up two seperate grids next to each other? It is slowly happening. And it works like in telecom. The laws forces the monopoly to rent out its wiring to other companies. >>1158655 see above
>>1158663 >So , you are in the west. By western farmers do you mean German farmers ? I mean all dutch and german farmers.
>>1158663 >It is slowly happening. And it works like in telecom. The laws forces the monopoly to rent out its wiring to other companies. >slowly >40 years after the USSR collapse >and still power outages BRUH TRUST ME, IN 40 YEARS MORE WE WILL HAVE SPACE STATION, RUMANIA GOOOO BRO >bruh.
My revolutionary response >>1158621 Thank you comrade for such a high honor. While I genuinely think Stalin did some things wrong, he wasn’t a monster like Adolf Hitler, Winston Churchill, Benito Mussolini, or Francisco Franco. He was a genuine and loyal revolutionary to the people as a whole! >>1158627 Ok...? I mean, to be honest, just with what I know, I would sell out my dad and grandparents (my mom isn’t really political) to the police if I lived under a socialist republic. At least I want to think so; you never know with crazy alternate histories what would actually happen. >>1158629 This is just silly. The Nazis wanted to genocide Jews and Slavs and whatnot for ideological race reasons that don’t really exist. Meanwhile capital (and by extension, it’s supporters) are an incredibly real and powerful (dominant, in our age) force with real damages to humankind. To compare socialists to fascists is inane horseshoe theory. >>1158634 Well no shit. The USSR, Stalin, Comintern, Warsaw Pact, all had flaws and changes that had to be undergone. When I was saying “reforms” I was using the term in a bit more of an obscene sense to refer to Market reforms, liberal capitalism, dengism, dubcek, fascism, Gorbachev, and titoism. Basically the retreat back to capital’s domination.
>>1158663 >the highest poverty rate of any European country. Most live off 5 us dollars a day
>>1158659 i know who he was but i didnt understand why the anon is mentioning him also <13-year-old boy who denounced his father to the authorities and was in turn killed by his family. it always fascinates me why it is never mentioned why Pavlik did that. his father was a fucking prick who abused his mom and his siblings.
>>1158660 >The FMI loan happened AFTER the breaking point between Rumania and the USSR. The FMI arrangement were finalized in 1972. What is the breaking point you are thinking about ? Also, Ceausescu needed the money because of his delusions, thinking it would make Romania the best industry in the whole commie zone. >>1158668 >RUMANIA GOOOO BRO not saying that, it is still mostly a shithole >>1158673 >e Nazis wanted to genocide Jews and Slavs and whatnot for ideological race reasons Yes, it was also about the race, but do you agree that they were against liberals ? >>1158677 >highest poverty rate of any European country You probably mean EU but I don't think that's true . Bulgaria and Hungary are worse
OP doesn't realize that Rumania, Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, Letonia, Estonia, Ukraine, and Poland and all those ex USSR countries are just exploited by the EU in a so shitty way... I invite OP to go visit the richest houses in his city and check if any of those rich people live there, instead of living in France, Germany, Italy or Spain and there are only maids and guards the only people living in those mansions. Also, I invite OP to review the poor communities within his own country in the suburban and rural areas.
>>1158689 Yea but at least now he can say "fuck the government" in public because the government has nothing to fear from him, ans he has a comfy IT job. So its all worth it right.
>>1158689 The poor communities dont exist in Romania since they all immigrate into the EU to shit on the streets like typical Romanian tourists.
>>1158685 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania%E2%80%93Russia_relations#Romania-Soviet_Union_relations_(1945/47%E2%80%931990) The USSR-Romania split happened way before. He only sold his soul for the FMI. Reconsider the accusations you have about communism as the cause of the shitty things Romania suffered.
>>1158490 >I am not trying to convince anyone. It's just stories. then why are you posting them on a tiny communist board instead of on a reddit, where you would have a larger and more agreeable audience this is why people dislike you, you are pretending
>>1158689 >isit the richest houses in his city and check if any of those rich people live there There are many rich people who are Romanians and born under communism. You wouldn't dream what houses are in some corners of Bucharest ( where I live ) On the other hand, there are a lot of poor people and have always been. >>1158696 Under commies the gypsies ( which is what you're talking about ) were forcefuly kept in the country and made to work. Now they are free to go , beg and shit in every corner in EU. Which way is better ? Opression or freedom >>1158702 then why are you posting them on a tiny communist board instead of on a reddit I dont use redit and I thought I'd have an actual audience here. Maybe I was wrong
>>1158685 >Yes, it was also about the race, but do you agree that they were against liberals ? Fascism was distinctly anti-liberal, yes. It rejected the liberal concept of the rights of man (rights to free speech, religion, perhaps privacy and firearms), largely opposed free market capitalism in favor of a regulated state-directed capitalism (funny enough not THAT different from the modern People’s Republic of China today), and opposed the liberal form of a republic in favor of essentially some dressed up party dictatorship with maybe some vestiges from a previous monarchist or republican age before the right-wing fascist take over. Fascists were against liberals. Remember, both in the Weimar days and today, it’s the communists and that are saying “bash the fash!” While the liberals argue it’s within the fascist’s right to speak openly. The liberals have always been stooges—to an extent—to the fascists. Read Adorno. A certain part of a seemingly liberal population will switch to far rightist thought and fascism when conditions suit it (think France, Spain, Italy, Hungary, Germany, Russia, the Japanese empire, etc.).
>>1158714 >There are many rich people who are Romanians and born under communism My point exactly, a bunch of careerists that took the opportunity to privatize every fucking shit from the socialist states and make billions in months, weeks, days, after the falling of the communist government.
>>1158714 >Under commies the gypsies ( which is what you're talking about ) were forcefuly kept in the country and made to work. >Now they are free to go , beg and shit in every corner in EU. >Which way is better ? Opression or freedom I cant tell if youre shitposting or making an argument for oppresive romanian communism now.
>>1158685 >do you agree that they were against liberals ? Who the fuck would agree to that?
>>1158727 >my people shitting on every street corner is cool since its freedom XD Romanian cope is this thread
>>1158701 >Reconsider the accusations you have about communism as the cause of the shitty things Romania suffered. Ceausescu was one of the most nationalist communist leaders and yes, he stepped on Russia's tail many times. But why do you equate Russia with communism and why do you think they've been any help to Romania ? They were literally an invading force here. >>1158727 >Making an argument for opression So oppression is good ? >>1158731 >>1158729 >Who the fuck would agree to that? >don't agree that nazis were against liberals Were they liberal themselves ?
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Why do libshits immediately jump to comparing mass murder based on ethnicity (which an individual had no control over) with mass murder based on politics (which an individual has absolute control over)?
>>1158737 Jews can just chose to stop being jewish
>Born in 75, lived 15 years of revisionism through the end of 89. >Spoiler: it was bad, very bad. Thank you based comrade for the daily reminder to praise Hoxha
>>1158737 >comparing mass murder based on ethnicity (which an individual had no control over) with mass murder based on politics I am sorry , but I don't think there's any good kind of murder. Just my stupid opinion
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>>1158733 Liberalism and fascism are joined at the hip, yes. Rather than the tail, like fascism and communism.
>>1158740 no they can't retard, it's both religion and ethnicity
>>1158744 yes, we should've defeated the nazis through a robust debate, not with guns and bullets
>>1158748 >through a robust debate Isn't that what a democratic, truly free elections regime is supposed to provide ?
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>>1158744 Well, at least you admit your opinion is stupid. >advocating for the unity and brotherhood of man is the same as advocating extermination of [*insert group you consider to be lesser here*] and slavery >I have to put up with stupid fucking liberals and /pol/nazis because of US elections again
>>1158729 This comment is slightly dangerous, as it misses something fundamental. Fascism isn’t simply the next stage in liberalism. Fascism, while growing out of the decay of liberalism like fungi will from a rotting animal corpse, is necessarily and inherently anti-liberal. It rejects free trade and free markets in favor of protectionism, welfare, and the state commanding the heights of the economy. The liberal advocates for a liberal bourgeoise republic with bourgeois parliamentary elections while the fascist advocates for the Leviathan; the uncontested and supreme fascist state that seeks (impossibly) to subjugate even capital to the state. In a very raw and basic sense, liberalism represents capital’s supremacy over state while fascism represents the state’s (attempted) supremacy over capital. They’re distinct ideologies.
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>>1158748 ah, wait, you were ironic.. you still think it's the 1930s and you are fighting against the "evil nazis". >>1158754 >>advocating for the unity and brotherhood of man I was just responding to >>1158737 that seemed to advocate mass murder, if done for a good purpose . Good and bad depend on which side you are
>>1158752 what does that have to do with what I said do you think I give a shit about "truly free elections"
>>1157879 Be happy that your country has a future left.
>>1158767 anon, dont be a doomer. Your country wherever it is can still improve. Go work or study your way up to a good job and even participate in small political/ social help campaigns to help your country little by little.
>>1158769 It's fucking over, the demographics, the corruption, the economy, the crime, the drugs. The russian people is dying before my very eyes.
>>1158699 >the EU to shit on the streets like typical Romanian tourists. Being of Indian descent, I’d normally say that it’s not cool to push such stereotypes, but I’m just glad that for once we’re not the ones being stereotyped for public defecation.
>>1158776 >but I’m just glad that for once we’re not the ones being stereotyped for public defecation. Oh yes you are anon. People that like you once came from India are shunned here because they beg in the streets and their opression under communism is freely advocated
>>1158775 Russia like every ex commie country is going through the same troubles albeit with differing circumstances. The point is that you can only really try to better yourself through not just work but education since the systems you are under are nothing more than just business barons. Sucks, but you can only really count on yourself and some other comrades to help the material conditions of your city improve by a .1% margin
>>1158782 ah yes because under capitalism all forms of oppression are eliminated
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>>1157879 > US BACKED CAPITALISM SURVIVOR, AMA Born in 50, lived 36 years of capitalism through the end of 86. Spoiler: it was bad, very bad. INB4 : But real capitalism has never been tried. Maybe. But what and how would you change ?
>>1157918 >capitalism shepherded in cp, prostitution and privatised everything <Yeah, all the boomers here suffer from nostalgia as well. lmfao
>>1157930 I know somebody who lived in communist Romania. Though they're able to recognize that a significant part of the shitty conditions was directly caused by Ceausescu's autism, not communism itself.
>>1158890 >a significant part of the shitty conditions was directly caused by Ceausescu's autism, not communism itself So, people were miserable only here and happy in al the other countries of ex Soviet block ? Is that what's you're saying ? I am the first to admit that it was not according to the book, though I am not big into ideology. All I know is that it was bad
>>1158861 based
>>1158899 >So, people were miserable only here and happy in al the other countries of ex Soviet block ? Is that what's you're saying ? Considering large parts of their populations want to go back to "failed communism", more than half in some places, yes.
>>1157930 My old boss was Romanian, he immigrated after the collapsed of communism. Said it was shit afterwards and this is coming from a small business pork. So why should we believe you?
>>1158761 >muh perspective Take your pomo shit back to Plebbit. <What they hear: <Fraternity <Liberty <Egality >What they think it means: >Make love, not war! >Nonviolent resistance! >Give peace a chance! >What it actually means: https://youtu.be/6lSA0Nodlh4?t=41
>>1158426 >monopoly is not REAL CAPITALISM Every fucking time. Kek.
>>1158929 No anon, dont you know real capitalism is when you have state intervention to reverse the natural trend of capitalism? Unless it isnt of course, then its evil socialism.
sure a 75 year old man is on bunkerchan. Prove it or shut up
>>1157879 >But what and how would you change? No state is a good start
>>1158915 >My old boss was Romanian, he immigrated after the collapsed of communism. Said it was shit afterwards and this is coming from a small business pork. It was indeed shit for around 10 years after the collapse. A lot of instability. What he failed to tell you is that it was shit even before. Believe me , your old boss was the kind of man that would've left way before if the communist let him
>>1158944 He’s saying that he was born in 75
>>1158957 Damn i wish i was delusional enough to explain anyone who disagrees with me away with some leap of logic, rather than seeing there is nuance to the situation and problems on both sides that need to be resolved. Lucky you i guess. You can just keep shouting the continuing problems after 30 years of capitalism, almost as long as romania has been communist, is all the fault of communism and that anyone who says there were good aspects to it and capitalism isnt so great is actually on your side.
>>1158921 what the hell is that ? >>1158929 >monopoly is not REAL CAPITALISM >Every fucking time. Kek. I did not mention capitalism, but that monopoly was created under communism. The way I see it is this: people think that communism is against corporations and avid capitalism, but in reality you get one giant monopoly : the State. We were not able to choose even between products made in other communist countries, they were very very hard to get. Everything had to be done in Romania and the few things we imported , we did because there was no equivalent here
>>1158681 >His father was a fucking prick who abused his mom and his siblings. In my thirdwold colony of Amerikkka people still have the courage to beat that kind of people to death or torch them alive, or the lumpensolidarity of knowing that they will be r*ped in prision and killed. A true comrade. Also WTF MODS ARE YOU FUCKING DEAD OR BRAINDEAD? THE LIBERAL MOD IS FUCKING WITH US? WHY THIS SHIT ISN'T LOCKED??
>>1158971 > nuance to the situation and problems on both sides that need to be resolved. I literally said that somewhere above in the thread. What I mean is that your old boss was one of those people pretending to be communist, but actually stealing form its work place and getting rich. As soon as he could, he left to find fortune somewhere else because there was nothing left to steal here
>>1158981 >WTF MODS ARE YOU FUCKING DEAD OR BRAINDEAD? THE LIBERAL MOD IS FUCKING WITH US? WHY THIS SHIT ISN'T LOCKED?? You are obviously not capable to take part in a civilized discussion. This shit gives birth to fascism
>Communist “survivor” Yea well will you survive this black dick nigga?
>>1157879 Why do so many Romanians disagree with you about communism being bad? https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/30/struggling-romanians-yearn-for-communism/
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>>1158998 black anon , not nice using racial slang >>1159002 People have short memory. Also note that the article is from 2012, when the 2008 crysis was still felt bad
>>1159006 >when the 2008 crysis was still felt bad the 2007 crisis never ended brother >muh meany word cringe, kill yourself. eternal leader kuzco should have killed your 15 year old ass so we may have been spared this comment
>>1159006 >People have short memory. yeah, the epic eastern euro rightard answer <hmm, maybe the people lived better under fucking communists than they live under neoliberalism <nah, that's because they all have dementia
>>1158996 The civilized discussion already took part, or the 200 posts including yours are only shitposts? >Gives birth to fascism. Fascism is simptomatic to the decaying state of capitalism, not some puny "discussion". Fuck off. This thread should be moved to /b/ where it belongs, since locking isn't policy anymore.
>>1159020 >hmm, maybe the people lived better under fucking communists than they live under neoliberalism <nah, that's because they all have dementia I am not a "righttard". I tend to believe in anarchism and freedom. >because they all have dementia So, when they lived under communism, everyone was cursing communism. When living in capitalism , everyone is cursing capitalism. Do explain ? People are never happy and throw guilt on something else other than their own choices >>1159016 >>muh meany word >cringe, kill yourself. I was joking, I don't really care
>>1158899 >I am not big into ideology. All I know is that it was bad So why make this fucking "Communist survivor" thread? Who fucking cares what you think if you aren't even going to apply critical thought to the matter? Fuck off retard
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>>1157930 >Romania Well, that explains it.
My grandmother was murdered in Pinochet coup by the CIA. Only socialism can save Latin America
>>1157935 >This surpression of thought is actually what led to the downfall of communism Liberalization and glasnost was what killed the east bloc.
>>1157879 >communist "survivor" >posts american vehicles >AMA like on reddit >Goes into zero details OP is a certified faggot
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>>1159030 I'm sorry for the hostility of the other anons, you see we have had an aneurism of retards coming in here with shit threads due to the amerilard elections and most of us here have been arguing both here and IRL constantly. Also what kind of anarchism are talking? Ancom, ancol, ansyn?
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>>1159030 >I tend to believe in anarchism and freedom. If you believe in "anarchism", but are against communism, then you're just a fascist who's guzzled down too much AmeriCum.
>>1159106 >If you believe in "anarchism", but are against communism, then you're just a fascist I am against the communist I've experimented. If someone makes a better version, it should be called different because the name is already tainted ! >you're just a fascist Isn't fascism like the opposite of anarchism ? >>1159077 >zero details What more detail ? Do you want my phone no ? >>1159090 >Also what kind of anarchism are talking? Ancom, ancol, ansyn? Again, not that big into political theory. I leave it for people that seem to know more about it here. I am for freedom and against heavy state control.
>>1159002 That's because it wasn't. It was better than what came before and after.
>>1159090 Reading up on that, I'd say amsyn >>1159138 >It was better than what came before and after. Don;t you actually see the PIB/ capita being the highest after 2010 ? Isn't that better ?
Still here OP? What was like really life for you under late chao? What was education like with the huge amount of orphans? What was society like? Did you ever have a job? What was that like? Did you see him die on TV like they say happened?
>>1159150 >What was like really life for you under late chao? Assuming you mean Ceausescu.. I explained along the thread. He was determined to pay external debt by any mean, so the country was a state of deep poverty. Everything was rationalized , shortages of everything. Everyone was corrupted , you had to bribe for meat, for milk, even for freaking light bulbs. >What was education like with the huge amount of orphans? Education was pretty good and strict. Not such a huge amount of orphans relative to pop size, only badly taken care of. >What was society like? Society was hungry and scared. Taints of stalinism . You wouldn't know if your next door neighbor is going to rat you out for having a bottle of "tzuica" ( liquor ) in your house. Everyone was cursing the regime in a muted voice but having to participate in the popular gatherings where they would praise it. All the elections were fake. >Did you ever have a job? I was 15 in 89, so no. I was in high school. Very strict. I remember that up to the 5th grade we were constantly getting physical abuse from the teachers. One time, my swimming teacher hit me with a belt. >id you see him die on TV like they say happened? Yes, I did. It also happened in the town I lived back then
The biggest gains were under communism, even retarded Romanian communism.
>>1157932 yeah all parties are fucking shit after the revolution
>>1159169 Thanks for the replies, what do you think Romania's future looks like? I heard that fascism is on the rise all over Eastern Europe, there was one Romanian guy on an obscure website I went to and he was always complaining about Romanian fascists, how is everyone dealing with that?
>>1159177 >The biggest gains were under communism gains ? what gains ? do you mean the slope of that graph ? still bigger , even starting with 2000 >>1159265 >what do you think Romania's future looks like? If everything keeps the current direction, a tighter integration with EU. Of course, lots of stuff going on right now so I'm not sure anymore >fascism, guy That guy doesn't know what he's talking about. We have larger gay pride parades than skin heads or anything like that. The only thing that really upsets people right now it the Covid thing, so that might degenerate very quickly
i think a fundamental point here that no one has bothered to mention is that all the bad shit you experienced in the 80s was a direct result of ceska's austerity approach, not something inherent to socialism. other comecon states took western loans, but besides poland they didn't do all the cooking oil rationing and electricity outages. bulgaria iirc had some similar but less severe shortage issues in the late 80s, and again poland was generally a mess not just in that decade but throughout the entire PRL existence. hungary took many loans but just ignored it, so no kind of austerity was ever done and people generally lived great even in 1989. czechoslovakia didn't even have a debt. anyway the trend here was that they all took loans, the difference being what they did with it and where they invested them. poland invested them in consumer goods alone like idiots and were trapped in a retarded cycle of crisis; romania invested them in actual industry, and ceska with all his flaws in mind at least REALISED (which no one else in the shitty RCP did) the debts needed to be payed off. austerity in fact payed off the debts by ~1988 but obviously it was too late. honestly, had there not been the political climate at the time there was a decent chance romania could have recovered and perhaps survive as a people's republic in an otherwise now capitalist europe... but obviously that future would have its own massive set of difficulties and it'd be unlikely they could exist alone the same way the DPRK does. >>1158421 >the old days before Ceausescu not exactly true, most nostalgia is for the 60s-70s. >Dubcek again most nostalgia is for the 60s-70s. some people miss the 80s, but no one really misses the post-war and novotny era. Kadar this one is just complete bogus as kadar's era is one of the most revered in the former eastern bloc, not rakosi which was characterised by post-war difficulties, rigid economy and AVH excesses. even anti-communists in the 60s said that goulash communism was sufferable, and hungary was considered the "happiest barrack" which many tourists from both east and west visited. they also had relatively free travel, and out of the tens of thousands of people that would only a handful didn't return. >>1158562 what millionares existed in yugoslavia??? >>1158577 >We all hate soviet "communism" from the 70s onward speak yourself american larper
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>>1159144 >Don;t you actually see the PIB/ capita being the highest after 2010 ? Isn't that better ? not the anon you're replying to, but not necessarily, gdp can be a shitty measure for general well being
>>1158649 Oh no, the non-(actually anti-)communists! Anyway.
>>1159428 >CIA puppet will rape CIA
>>1158996 What gives rise to fascism is libshits thinking they can defeat fascists with "civilized discussion". I'll send Hindenburg a strongly worded letter, that'll surely change his mind on who to nominate as chancellor
So you spent most of this "time under Gommulism in which 600 bajillion died" as a child and then later spent your life living under capitalism propaganda. The premise of this AMA is that this makes you an expert on "Gommulism in which 700 gorillion died". Question: Do you enjoy living in UK/Germany while your Eastern euro homeland is suffering from collapsed birthrates and high suicide rates?
dont care about your type of subhuman either faggot
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Where did you live? As far as I am aware there has never been an communist country. State capitalism has existed and there is a conversation to be had on whether it is better than free market capitalism, but communism has never been practised.
>>1159372 >i think a fundamental point here that no one has bothered to mention is that all the bad shit you experienced in the 80s was a direct result of ceska's austerity approach, not something inherent to socialism. It's been brought up multiple times by multiple people.
>>1158977 >but that monopoly was created under communism Fucking impossible. Monopoly is ALWAYS the byproduct of capitalism. >people think that communism is against corporations and avid capitalism Which is correct. Communism is basically the opposite of capitalism. >but in reality you get one giant monopoly : the State >state is monopoly >sate in stateless society https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e3-c_0WJgo Your country had the chance to redeem itself from "communism", but it didn't because of the nature of capitalism. If anything, you should be complaining capitalism for this.
I lived in socialist Yugoslavia. And it was good. Really good. And an economic crisis of the 70s and early 80s was global, not just in your socialist country.
I'm an Iraqi, currently living in capitalist "democracy", AMA Born in 2001, lived 17(and counting) years of capitalism Spoiler: it was bad, very bad. INB4 : But real capitalism has never been tried. Maybe. But what and how would you change ?
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>>1159290 The dip is capitalism. The rise is a combination of walking back some of the neoliberal shock therapy and cucking out hard to the Western powers.
>>1159539 >you an expert on "Gommulism in which 700 gorillion died". Expert ? Surely not. People still have a hard time understanding all the historical events that led to the falling of communism. Many of them forgot what they knew. I just have real life experience with a practical POV > Do you enjoy living in UK/Germany while your Eastern euro homeland is suffering from collapsed birthrates and high suicide rates? You must be thinking of Ukraine. I did not move to Germany, still hanging here in Romania. >>1159564 >Where did you live? As far as I am aware there has never been an communist country. See above. It's been repeated all over the thread also. Yes, we had state capitalism, and people here have a hard time accepting that everyone called it communism >>1159751 >>state in stateless society Stateless society, that's an utopia from a practical standpoint. What type of communism is that exactly ? >>1159815 >The dip is capitalism. The dip is the period of instability after the fall of communism. All east europe countries went through it. What did you expect ? >cucking out hard to the Western powers. Oh well, you gotta do what you gotta do
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>>1159890 It's not merely a period of instability 30 years later.
>>1159754 >I lived in socialist Yugoslavia. And it was good. Really good. Expand on that. How old are you ? How was the living ? When did it get bad and how, etc >>1159782 >17 yo Hell no. You were born in the worst time for Irak. Go to school, get a job, make a family, come back after. Kids should not make politics !
>>1157879 Did you stay in your country after the fall of communism? If yes how did capitalism improve it?
>>1159897 I call bs on that graph. The income grew and the availability of food is 1000x higher. I explained somewhere above that in the 80s, all the store shell were empty because everything good had to be exported. Meat was rationalized , you only got a small amount / month. Now food is everywhere and plentiful. Explain
>>1159924 The data is spread across the entire eastern europe. It is exact, according to UN FAO, but your claim of "1000x higher" is dubious at best and ubacked by data. It represents your tunnel vision as a child and a young adult through the 90's. Romania was pretty bad, it was a state that couldn't swear allegiance to either west or east, swinging like a pendulum to either, we acknowledge that it was ran incompetently but we don't acknowledge it as a fault of communism. In fact, many countries like Uzbekistan were pro-keeping USSR at the time and suffered greatly for it dissolvement.
>>1159924 The soldier in the trenches does not see how things are going in the war, he only sees what's around him. So your personal juvenile anecdotes cannot make a case for or against communism, I'm sorry to say.
>>1159924 The food is plentiful on the shelves but how many people can buy it and feed themselves? In USSR most public food was in the fridges or public restaurants, so the shelves don't necessarily show the caloric consumption in population.
>>1159942 >It represents your tunnel vision as a child and a young adult through the 90's. Do you think I'm lying to you ? Have a look here for real historical photos: https://thepickledspruit.org/2019/02/03/photo-reportage-communist-eateries-and-food-stores-across-romania/ Except the rare occasions when the "tovarash" ( Ceausescu ) was making his public apareances, shells were empty, period. Next I'll post current stores to see the difference >>1159957 >so the shelves don't necessarily show the caloric consumption in population. Were was the population getting their food from though ?
>>1159983 I think your memories are exaggerated due to them being some of your first. The planned nature of the economy meant that stores had as much food as was needed by the population for consumption, so when the people grabbed all they needed the stores could be empty until next supply. I have to stress that you've lived through the collapse of the system, not its flourishing. Photos also do not overturn data and information, it's sensationalist. You can photo people in tents in the us and kingly mansions in nigeria, this doesn't prove anything in grand scheme of things. You weren't dying of starvation yourself, did you?
>>1159987 >>1159999 Are you a falseflagging samefag? Calm down if you're not.
>>1159957 >how many people can buy it and feed themselves? Here are the current prices: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Romania cross that with the medium income. I am currently perfectly happy living with around 800 euros in Bucharest , food and tobacco ( 2 packs / day ). The rest I just save. Also, I can tell you that Romanian people are pigs when it comes to food : we like to drink and eat a lot. Holydays like Christmas see record sales in all the supermarket chains ( which we have most of any other EE country ) >>1159987 >experienced was actually capitalist propaganda >my experience is propaganda >nazi I don't even.. >>1159995 >I think your memories are exaggerated due to them being some of your first. If my memory is unreliable, see the photos here https://thepickledspruit.org/2019/02/03/photo-reportage-communist-eateries-and-food-stores-across-romania/
>>1160010 So are you going to ignore the rest of my arguments? I said that sensationalist photos with no background or context do not constitute an argument in favor or against anything. Medium income does not say anything, it's the medium between a billionaire petro magnate and a starving cripple on the street, a medium temperature in the hospital. You are blind to the suffering of other people due to having a warm place for yourself, far from a guarantee in a capitalist society, and don't give me that spiel about meritocracy.
>>1157879 What a coincidence I too was born in 75. Everything was swell, then Gorbachev came along and everything went to shit. I do believe he did this intentional. There is a reason why all his memorials are only found outside Russia
>>1159995 >You weren't dying of starvation yourself, did you? I've been an only child in my family ( aunts , grandparents, etc ). Everyone took care of me. My dad worked in the police so he occasionally used his influence to get contrabanda stuff But it doesn't mean I had it all that good. Main course was soup , all kinds of that. Chicken was rare , and pig meat ( which people had to grow themselves in the country side, if they had any relatives there ) was a few times a year
>>1160019 >I said that sensationalist photos with no background or context do not constitute an argument in favor or against anything. I can testify that these pictures are accurate and reflect what was going on. >Medium income does not say anything It's an economic indicator. People I know and meet here are not that "suffering"
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>>1158055 Yes You could say the same about John Maynard Keynes. Without Keynes capitalism would be dead. But yet capitalists absolutely fucking loathe Keynes. Matter of fact the entire career of shiteaters like Mises and Hayek consists of being butthurt by Keynes and they are successful with it.
>>1160027 This argument is going nowhere? What's your thesis you argue for? That some photos show shelves in late 80's Romania were empty therefore communism was bad? How many shelves? Why were they empty, how often, how people fed themselves despite this? What is the politico-historical context? How many people you know and what's their economic background? I'm can tell you don't know much anyone below your immediate economic circle.
>>1160027 In russia I don't have to look to see beggars on the street or construction workers barely making a living, I don't believe that romania is better in this respect.
>>1157879 It was communism. Read a book, retard >B-bbuh muh reddit emems!!! DYEL
>>1160038 >How many shelves? Why were they empty, how often, how people fed themselves despite this? What is the politico-historical context? The context is known by everyone. How many shelves ? All of them. When they brought in food, there were lines long for hundreds of meters . >How did the people survive They improvised and ate less. Corruption also helped a lot. >How many people you know I am talking about my friends, neighbors, people I see in the street. Income varies, yet nobody is starving because living is still pretty cheap ( even in Bucharest) Thesis I argue ? None. I just am weary about that graph. Here's how supermarkets look now. When the Covid thing was announced, lockdowns and everything, all the super markets got emptied because everyone was buying literally full trunks of food ! hundreds of Kgs You mean to tell me these people are starving ? BS
>>1159909 >Hell no I'm 19 yo, i lived 17 years of "democratic" capitalism after 2003 invasion >You were born in the worst time for Irak Duh >Go to school, get a job, make a family If people could do that they wouldn't make politics in the first place
>>1160048 >>1160038 Here's what happened when the lockdowns were announced. Non stop sales for weeks
>>1160048 >The context is known by everyone. You will not sway me with this cheap rhetorical trick. I need dates, locations, what was going on in the country and in the world at large, with sources. Your article doesn't state anything, therefore I must conclude that it's sensationalist and nothing more, hardly informational. Have you been to the lower rungs of society, the people you see in the stores aren't all of the people. Are you denying the existense of impoverished social layer in your country because you do not personally see them?
>>1160048 And if we have no thesis to argue, then there's no point really. I too have a romanian friend, who is not an anticommunist but also dislikes ceaucescu. Romania in late 80's and subsequently 90's sucked, we can agree with that. It doesn't say anything more than that, which is a waste of time and attention.
>>1160057 >I need dates, locations, what was going on in the country and in the world at large, with sources. I am the source, although I can't obviously testify for all the country. I lived in 2 relatively large cities as a child and everywhere was the same. >sources You can do your own research. I am here to recount my own ( biased ) experience. >Are you denying the existense of impoverished social layer in your country because you do not personally see them? There are poor people but the average person ( guy making 500 to 1000 euro a month ) has a better life now. What do we even argue here ? Here's another picture of the Covid hysteria >>1160062 > I too have a romanian friend, who is not an anticommunist but also dislikes ceaucescu. Romania in late 80's and subsequently 90's sucked, we can agree with that. Exactly. I don't argue it was real communism , I am just arguing that what happened was bad and asking for a real practical solution , not just some theoretical BS
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>>1160048 Here's how "supermarkets" looked in the DDR. I have never experienced shortages and i'm from a bumfuck village, not even close to Berlin. Also, it was clear that you're a liar when you whined about not having "free speech" as a seven year old. I don't get why people even respond to you after this. If i was a mod you'd get a seven-year-ban for Epoch Times style anti-communist bullshit. Fuck off.
>>1160078 I don't think he's a troll, he just doesn't know much more than he lived through. Romania really wasn't good, nothing compared to ddr or rsfsr, or baltic states.
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>>1160078 >Here's how "supermarkets" looked in the DDR. I have never experienced shortages and i'm from a bumfuck village, not even close to Berlin. Yes, I know east germans had it good. Whenever tourists from your country came here, they had chocolate and all kinds of stuff we never saw. Now compare with our stores >Also, it was clear that you're a liar when you whined about not having "free speech" as a seven year old. You are dumb mate. As a 7 yo ,I called Ceausescu "Ceausica" in from of my play mates, outside. When I later told my grandpa about it he was scared and told me to not ever do it again, because the whole family could get in trouble ( mind it, my grandpa held a high rank in the military ) So yes, I was terrorized as a 7 yo and afraid of going to prison, not because I was making political discourses, but because I was a dumb kid
>>1160085 Maybe it wasn't communism maybe it was Romania I hear Swedes are chucking a shitfit about Romanian economic refugees begging all over Sweden
>>1160085 He lived through the collapse years as a child. But, yes Romania was one of the shittier ones. Unsure what his purpose is. the OP said he want to know how communism could be made better, maybe he got his answer already in the hundreds of responses
>>1159132 >Isn't fascism like the opposite of anarchism ? Surprisingly, no. Most fascist ideologies have their anti liberal and abd anti marxist roots on anarchism, the main reason anarchists were anti State back then was due their distrust of jews and the ideology itself was an eurocentric one which based itself on the idealism of feudal life
>>1160096 > Romanian economic refugees They are not economic refugees. We call them gypsies , people that never worked one day in their life but stole and begged. You are not a economic refugee is you don't want to work
>>1160100 What if YOU were a gypsy?
>>1160069 Also , another thing that people don't know or don't understand. I think that Ceausescu did some good for this country and that he genuinely thought it's all great. But, the premises he built his world view on were false. People were lying to him and he was living in a bubble. You can see in that blog how every time he went somewhere, the whole landscape was changed : stores full, people happy, building repainted. We had it North Koreea style. That's about it
>>1160114 Are you already having nostalgia for Ceaucescu?
>>1160105 >What if YOU were a gypsy? I am not a racist but there are people out there that are just bad, because they always take advantage of others. That's what they've been raised to do. They don't deserve to be called "economic refugees" , they simply moved their business ( stealing and cheating ) from here to wealthier countries like Sweden. I never took anything for free from anyone and I've been on my own since 19 yo . >>1160119 >Are you already having nostalgia for Ceaucescu? Hell no. I just want to be objective
>>1160126 So your parents abandoned you. How does that make you feel?
>>1160130 >So your parents abandoned you. How does that make you feel? Very funny. No. It's not normal to live with your parents anymore after 20 yo. My parents are still around , but we live in different cities
Abandoned
>>1160149 Maybe they discovered you were a gypsy and abandoned you
>>1160085 Then he/she could've created a thread about what, how and why Ceaucescu failed to deliver in Romania. I imagine that could yield interesting content. However this thread is supposed to be a "communist survivor" AMA, including the dumb western right-wing meme "communism has never been tried". If he was really raised in the eastern bloc he must know that he officially lived under socialism, not communism. The OP sounds like something Victims of Communism Foundation shills would create.
>>1160114 >We had it North Koreea style. That's about it Funny you should mention that, because Ceausescu did indeed take inspiration from Juche and DPRK, and aspired to be like Kim Il-Sung. Except, of course, he was more interested in the cult of personality of Kim rather than the things he did that made people admire him. Also, if this is an AMA, just curious: what is your opinion on the Iron Guard and Corneliu Codreanu?
>>1160153 maybe you need to learn some trolling skills, what are you, 5 ? >>1160158 >dumb western right-wing meme "communism has never been tried" I never knew it was a ring -wing meme but that's all I've heard from Americans that don't want to really grasp my reality, which I is very hypocritical in my opinion >lived under socialism, not communism. Perhaps. Everyone called it communism though. >>1160170 >opinion on the Iron Guard and Corneliu Codreanu? Not going into this . There are people that used the old saying : the end justifies the means to commit all kinds of bad stuff. Including the Iron Guard, Hitler , Stalin and Ceausescu
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Here's another pic that I find representative. I was that kid waiting in line with the bags, while my grandpa went to do other stuff. The waiting could last several hours , maybe even half a day
>>1160181 >Not going into this . There are people that used the old saying : the end justifies the means to commit all kinds of bad stuff. Including the Iron Guard, Hitler , Stalin and Ceausescu I mean, fair enough, but I was hoping for a little more. The reason I asked is because I see a ton of Romanian people justify the Iron Guard as somehow a lesser evil, or just straight up veer so far into anti-communism that they become unironic fascists. I see a ton of them of /pol/, which is where I'm assuming you found this board. Would you say Romania was better off before communism than it was during Ceausescu?
>>1160181 >I never knew it was a ring -wing meme It still isn't. They are just being a dumbass, and are perpetuating a myth right wingers spread so they can say they "defeated" communism. >but that's all I've heard from Americans that don't want to really grasp my reality Your reality is that you lived in a shitty capitalist state ruled by oligarchs. Deal with it. >he must know that he officially lived under socialism Not even that >>1160158
>>1160214 >a ton of Romanian people justify the Iron Guard as somehow a lesser evil Where do you meet those people ? Are you from.. where ? These are the same kind of people that experience nostalgia to Ceausescu - delusional. Also, as far as I know, the right wing movement here never held real political power , so its just not comparable. You can't say something that never existed was a great time in the country's history. But yeah, maybe some people imagine them as the opposite of communism and go along with that theme. I don't since I don't like any dictatorial kind of politics.
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>>1157879 >>1157930 >Ceausescu I mean I'm not to well versed on Romanian history, but wasn't the period of austerity Romania suffered a result of Ceausescu opposing the Soviet bloc and trying to pay off the debts he owed to western porkies?
>>1160214 >Would you say Romania was better off before communism than it was during Ceausescu? The only period Romania was better off , besides modern era, was the the time between the two world wars, when economy was flourishing due to large quantities of oil and agricultural exports. The political regime was liberal monarchy . Of course, I know that from history book, so take what you will. >>1160232 >Your reality is that you lived in a shitty capitalist state ruled by oligarchs. Deal with it. Maybe. I still think that Americans are hypocritical when they don't want to listen to real life consequences of what they think they want. If you lived in America all your life, you are a product of capitalism and have no right to comment on this. >>1160249 >a result of Ceausescu opposing the Soviet bloc and trying to pay off the debts he owed to western porkies? The debt was a result of dictatorial delusions and poor economy. You can argue it was a result of the regime as well
>>1160214 >which is where I'm assuming you found this board I found it because a guy from US that I work with told me about it
>>1160261 > I still think that Americans are hypocritical when they don't want to listen to real life consequences of what they think they want >I still think that (insert country here) are hypocritical when they don't want to listen to real life consequences of what they think they want We aren't a country of hats. Do not generalize.
>>1157879 >I'm from communist country and it sucked!!! This is such obvious bullshit copy-pasta. Convenient how you don't name the country. 1) If you were born in 1975 then your first memories would be from the early 1980s and since you stated til 1989 I can infer that this was one of the Warsaw Pact countries and not the USSR itself. This of course ignores that Gorbachev's policies rapidly caused economic decline and social unrest from 1986 onward, during your formative years (supposedly). 2) Saying "it was bad" is meaningless opinion, that is contradicted by the opinions of others who definitely lived in socialist countries and either want them back or preferred their lives there. This is seen in polls and surveys across the Eastern Bloc. 3) Claiming that "hurr they like it cuz boomer" exposes you as an Westernoid, since boomer applies to AMERICA and the babies/kids of the BABY BOOM in the 1950s. Moreover that is a petty dismissal of majority opinion going against yours https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Mikhail-Gorbachev-seek-to-reform-the-Soviet-society/answer/Chuck-Garen
>>1160313 Suuuuuure
>>1160031 >1159999 What a waste of quads
>>1160261 >The debt was a result of dictatorial delusions and poor economy. You can argue it was a result of the regime as well Sure, but that's kind of what I mean though. I don't think Ceausescu's failure was because he was a communist as much as it was because he was ungodly retarded and a revisionist. I don't think anyone is interested in ever defending him, as you can see from this thread.
>>1160320 Americans are a country of fat idiots that think they can take their current materialist shithole and turn it from 'useless garbage you have to pay for' to 'useless garbage that's FREE' and that's what socialism is (and both rightwingers and leftwingers in America think this). Americans do not know what socialism is and are fat and stupid.
>>1159924 triggered by FACTS AND LOGIC, snowflake?
>>1160261 >I still think that Americans are hypocritical when they don't want to listen to real life consequences of what they think they want. You're not the one to talk about hypocrisy, really. After all, you present your opinion as an absolute truth owing to have lived in a socialist Romania, and then turn around and discard all other (more popular and widespread) eyewitness accounts and evidence of public opinion arbitrarily.
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>>1160048 >How many shelves ? All of them. Not before 1986 they weren't >Muh lines See pic related That's such debunked rubbish it isn't even funny. Links posted before. >They improvised and ate less <CIA report and FAO and multiple other sources cite average Soviet caloric consumption to be HIGHER than the USA in 1982 and about the same in 1975 (pic 3) Stop lying faggot. >muh corruption not even close to being as widespread as is memed by you. > Income varies, yet nobody is starving because living is still pretty cheap An apartment was either free or paid a token price of 1-2 rubles in the socialist bloc and the same goes for water and electricity >Muh covid!!! fuck off >Muh supermarkets were emptied DO you understand what capitalist over-production is? Do you understand where these products come from? Why they are so "abundant"? They don't show up outta thin air the moment capitalism comes to play and given that capitalism in the 90s caused literal cannibalism in the Eastern Bloc (also linked) I wouldn't be jumping for joy. >muh sales products are not magic, the capital to produce them does not come out of thin ar There are always iphones in the apple stores, because Apple quietly exploits child-slave labour and underpays workers and has the IMF padding their pockets. https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Mikhail-Gorbachev-seek-to-reform-the-Soviet-society/answer/Chuck-Garen https://www.quora.com/What-were-the-factors-that-forced-Gorbachev-to-initiate-the-reforms-of-the-USSR/answer/Chuck-Garen
>>1160181 >Everyone called it communism though. No, everyone called it socialism and everyone over 40 still calls it socialism, because that's what it was and this is what we learned in school. Romania was called Socialist Republic of Romania under Ceausescu. You supposedly went to school in that country at that period of time, so you must know it, you fucking liar. You're not even a libshit expat, you're probably not even Romanian.
>>1160322 >This is such obvious bullshit copy-pasta. Convenient how you don't name the country. This is not copied from anything. The country is named. Please read the thread before jumping to conclusions >>1160338 >Americans are a country of fat idiots that think they can take their current materialist shithole Some other guy said it >>1160351 >fter all, you present your opinion as an absolute truth owing to have lived in a socialist Romania, and then turn around and discard all other (more popular and widespread) eyewitness accounts and evidence of public opinion arbitrarily No , false, I do not discard anything. I agree that some other countries in the area were better off, but it seems I'm the only one willing to share . Lets make it a history thread for all the ex soviet countries ! >>1160352 Are you really comparing lines for Apple shit with lines for food ? >>muh corruption >not even close to being as widespread as is memed by you. Oh yes it was. The effect of it are still felt today, many people are still corrupt as fuck. Example : the medical system is in theory a state system, but if you did not give "something" to the medics, they wouldn't pay attention to you. >An apartment was either free or paid a token price of 1-2 rubles in the socialist bloc and the same goes for water and electricity That just pure stupidity. They weren't in any way free. My family had a house + terrain that the State took and built an apartment building over. The new living place we got was a flat in another building and not in any way free. We have for itpaid during 30 years. Prices were comparable to today's prices, relative to the income. So not only it was not free, you were blindly robbed.
>>1160367 >you fucking liar. You're not even a libshit expat, you're probably not even Romanian. Why the need for name calling ? Do you want to see my fucking Romanian ID card you liar ?
>>1160375 >Do you want to see my fucking Romanian ID card you liar ? Yes
>>1160371 >My family had a house + terrain that the State took and built an apartment building over based
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Să înțeleg că vorbești limba?
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>>1160463 Here. I left the release date so you see it not antique shit >>1160477 >based Not at all. >>1160484 Da, si sunt sictirit de atata prostie
>>1158388 wow that is really fucked up story anon. I can see why your grandmother loves communism
>>1160371 >No , false, I do not discard anything. What are you doing here >>1157918 >>1157953 and here then? >>1157983 >>1158038 You are being nothing but dishonest and arbitrary, as I (and pretty much everybody who reads these comments here) would judge that. You don't have to accept this opinion, but it's absurd that you continue to insist that your opinion is fundamental, and their opinion and public opinion of Romania being in favor of communism is "MUH BRAINWASHED BOOMERS" and "MUH SOROS FAKE NEWS" This leads me to assume you do not intend to argue in good faith.
>>1160546 >What are you doing here I can't speak for other countries. What I refered to in those answers is strictly people from my country that I know and I know their thought process. What good faith do you have when you come and tell me I've lived a nice life when I know I did not ? And yes, boomers, even though the term does not apply here, are not to be trusted on their opinions. Also see >>1159030 People are never content with their current status and that's a good thing. As for Soros, you should know yourself why that person can not be trusted. If you don't , find out !
>>1160586 Why should we trust your opinion over theirs? They were adults under socialism, unlike you, which likely gave them a far better understanding of that society than you got.
Romania is discount and more racist Yugoslavia
>>1160586 >What I refered to in those answers is strictly people from my country that I know and I know their thought process. But what about your own though process? >And yes, boomers, even though the term does not apply here, are not to be trusted on their opinions. But it's just that - opinion. Your opinion vs theirs. You are saying that their opinion should not be trusted - because of your opinion. Do you really lack self-awareness to spot the problem in this statement, or do you avoid it in bad faith? >As for Soros, you should know yourself why that person can not be trusted. These polls are trustworthy, though. All polls from all sources give the same results. Soros' agenda is anticommunist, so there is no insentive to fake them in a way that would make Communism/Ceausescu look good. Same as with the previous case but worth for you: objective data vs just your "just trust me dude" >What good faith do you have when you come and tell me I've lived a nice life when I know I did not ? Except noone does it. It has nothing to do with above mentioned arguments raised against your reasoning.
>>1160645 >Why should we trust your opinion over theirs? They were adults under socialism, unlike you Hahaha, I'd love to bring you a boomer from here to talk to, but they largely congregate on Facebook praising PSD. You can look for them there. >>1160648 >Romania is discount and more racist Yugoslavia Yugoslavia is not a country anymore
>>1160660 >Hahaha, I'd love to bring you a boomer from here to talk to, but they largely congregate on Facebook praising PSD. You can look for them there. Link them to this thread would you please there's a good lad?
>>1160660 And yet Yugoslavia is still better off than Romania
>>1160657 >But it's just that - opinion. Your opinion vs theirs. You are saying that their opinion should not be trusted - because of your opinion. Ok, so you don't trust my opinion. Fair enough. I can't make you have my experience as you can not make me have yours. Which is , btw ? What is your experience in this matter ?
>>1160664 >Link them to this thread I dislike facebook, plus boomers here don't speak english
>>1157930 Almost nobody here would defend Ceausescu, fyi
>>1160669 >Which is , btw ? What is your experience in this matter ? I'm Russian, so all my society, and all people IRL have witnessed the Soviet Union relative to Capitalism. >Ok, so you don't trust my opinion. It's not a matter of trust (obviously, I have zero trust of an anonymous person I'm not even acquainted with). I account for your opinion statistically and pragmatically. An account of one man, which has as much "value" as an account of all other people in similar conditions. Therefore, the only thing that one can conclude based on your opinion is precisely that >not 100% of the citizens of communist republics liked communist regimes.
>>1160682 >I'm Russian, so all my society, And your age ? If not being indiscreet. Also, as far as I know, many people in Russia have a high income now, are things really that bad ?
>>1157879 >But what and how would you change? decentralize, destatize, and democratize. basically employ the yugoslavian model but with independent financing for the coops, a public wealth fund, more progressive social policies, and multiple socialist political parties.
>>1159564 This guy is a retard OP, don't listen to him.
>>1157918 So I should value the opinion of a literal child (16 yrs old when the USSR fell) more than someone who actually worked under socialism? Lmao fucking hang yourself you middle-aged failure
>>1160697 They are extremely bad not 90ies bad but still
>>1157879 >Spoiler: it was bad, very bad. Post chin, incel.
you're not a communist survivor, you're a political turmoil survivor. Don't pretend that economics brought the soviet union down. it was much greater than that.
>>1159924 Well this is a lie
le "communist state" face
Why did Ceausescu sing The Internationale before his execution? Just trying to garner sympathy or was he a genuine communist?
no one cares you deserved worse faggot
>>1162062 >>1162089 You are still kids yourself. I've made my way through life and I'm content. >>1162190 > Don't pretend that economics brought the soviet union down I don't. The economic situation was very bad, but the lack of freedom also had a great effect on making people unhappy. Political events also had foreign actors. It was a complex of factors. >>1162254 >this is a lie Strictly speaking for my country , is not, I tried to prove it with pictures. >>1162673 >Why did Ceausescu sing The Internationale I wasn't aware. The exact moment of the execution is censored everywhere ? Do you have a source ? What can I tell you is that he was deluded up to the last moment. I think he refuses to believe what was happening. His execution was a mistake : 1) because he was an old person and 2) it hid any further truths we could've got from him, probably that was the scope. >>1162723 >you deserved worse So, the people of this country deserved worse for existing. Right. nice psychopathy you have there
>>1162812 >You are still kids yourself. Hahaha, dude, that's just pathetic at this point. So, you discard opinion of everyone older than you and younger than you based on age alone at the same time. I'm laughing right now.
>>1157879 you lived under revisionism, not communism also post chin
>>1157930 and how much of that was communism and how much of that was Ceausescu being a retard? (spoiler; it was Ceausescu being a retard) you lived under revisionism, hence opinion discarded
>>1158038 >>soros foundation >yeah, no as if a bougie cunt like Soros was biased in favour of communism, take your meds schizo
>>1158219 The prophet! The voice!
>>1162821 So let me get this straight : You say my opinion ( more like stories, not opinion ) because I was 15 yo at the time it ended and as such, I couldn't have been aware of all the aspects of the system ? Fair enough, I couldn't . But if I say, you are still a kid NOW and can not have a fully developed opinion , it is bad ? Hmmm >you discard opinion of everyone older than you and younger than you based on age alone at the same time. Yes. I think the only people that can have an objective view on the situation are between ages of 35 and 65. And I'll try to explain: 1) People under the age of 35, they would've been 5 the time the regime fell, hardly any memories. After that, they've been largely protected from the reality around them by their parents and reached working age in 2005 the earliest. They can not objectively compare their reality with what was before. I might add here that there is a difference between believing in a fictional system where everyone is living good, people are equally represented, there are no more wars, etc - an idealistic and admirable dream, but sadly, not ever having been practical - AND believing that what was before 1990 was a good thing. 2) People after 65 : They were 35 at the fall of communism . As such, they were largely formed under a certain system and way of thinking and had a hard time adapting. They also experienced the worst period of instability 1990 - 2000. Many lost their jobs and haven't been able to learn new skills. After 2000, there was a short time of economic boom, followed by 2007 financial crash, which again impacted everyone. By the time things started getting better ( 2010-2012 ) those people were already in their 50s and unable to start a business or look for a better paying workplace. Now they are retirees and their only concern is their pensions - reason which they always vote left, typical for boomers I might add. I get their nostalgia for their youth ( pay attention , they were also young and able bodied ) but I also think it's nocive. >>1162862 You have a strange fetish. Thanks but I don't do online dating. >>1162976 >a bougie cunt like Soros You said it . Soros is a shady character and I honestly can't trust anything from him. Such people hold no core values, their only value is money, and as such he can not be either for or against communism >>1163011 >The prophet! >The voice! She doesn't know that there were prostitutes in communism as well
>>1158038 >The 60s+ seem to be the nostalgic ones. Maybe because they are not working anymore and isolated from the actual world Or maybe because they lived through 30 years of socialism (ie they were actually adults when experiencing it) ``and`` 30 years of capitalism, and it's obvious to them how much better things used to be.
>>1162867 >you lived under revisionism, hence opinion discarded Ok, so we're back to the first question. Has there ever been real communism ? If yes, where and when ? If no, why not and what should've been different ?
>>1157930 Yeah no shit, Ceausescu was a Khmer Rouge-tier retard who diverted drastically from the orthodox line and ruined his country with insane revisionist nonsense like blood mixing and pro-West deviations. You can accuse me of saying "not real communism", but you literally lived in an outlier of the general communist experience, you saying communism is bad bc Romania was shit would be like me saying capitalism is shit because I lived under Franco. It's too much of an outlier to unilaterally condemn an entire political movement spanning over a century in a vast multitude of states.
>>1157953 >That's why I'm asking how would you make it better/change Well, for starters, get Ceausescu out of power asap and put an orthodox ML in charge. This would have solved 90% of Romania's unique problems, removing the insane debt traps and ridiculous corruption. Don't get me wrong, it would have still had the problems of other Warsaw Pact nations, but at least it wouldn't have had Ceausescu's bathshit terror. If you mean how I would have improved Warsaw Pact Marxist-Leninism in general, that's a much tougher question and varies greatly by particular tendency.
>>1163449 >Has there ever been real communism ? Has there ever been a classless, moneyless and stateless society? (i mean in modern times, not in the stone age) no, there wasn't. it's that simple. the nOt reAl coMmunIsM meme is absolutely retarded and was started by people who don't know anything about what communists actually say. nobody denies that there were countries under the rule of the communist parties. but there is a debate between various kinds of communists if those countries were actually building a socialist / communist society (because it is a process). the discussion is about methods and between different understandings of socialism.
>>1157975 This 100%, modern Romania may not be AS awful as it was under Ceausescu, but you should realize that neoliberalism still saw it an impoverished wreck. This isn't even talking about other nations like Hungary and the entire USSR, which are now objectively worse under neoliberalism.
>>1157918 >I am here to tell you stories. only honest thing you posted
>>1158340 Yes, we don't see a difference because we don't subscribe to the "voluntary not paying for" and "forced by da state" dichotomy you liberals believe in. "Not paying" for a basic human utility is not a choice, particularly when a significant portion of the population under capitalism simply cannot obtain a job as capitalism relies on a surplus of available labor. Additionally, it's not just "not paying for it" when, particularly in America, power oligopolies can provide terrible service, with frequent power lapses and high prices, solely because "muh freemarket" cannot resolve the nature of an active oligopoly. >t. American in the Rust Belt that has seen the "free market" destroy the infrastructure of entire states, and regardless of "muh voluntary choice", you can't do shit to stop it
I was born in 1997 in Europe, lived on same continent under communism Spoiler: It was bad, very bad Ask me anything.
>>1158376 Dude, you do understand that capitalism inherently rewards and incentivizes monopolies, right? Things like basic game theory, such as the Nash Equilibrium, give serious material incentives to firms that conspire with each other. That's why under capitalism you can have dozens of different firms "competing" against each other and still get crappy monopoly-tier services and prices.
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So, did you learn anything from this thread, OP? Pretty sure 99% of posters here will agree with you that Ceausescu objectively sucked shit and was one of the worst Communist leaders to ever exist.
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>>1160697 Yes, Russia is now really good under supreme leader Putin, who sells out his industries and infrastructure to transatlantic capitalists for the benefit of us, the people. Now Woman gets treated like equal, by beaten to red pulp and being murdered by drunken man who has no job and beat shit out of wife. Woman also became independent, by underfunding of childcare and healthcare and other social services. Also LGBT people have lot of freedom when chased by drunken mob who want to lynch them because leader Putin says gay not natural and must be illegal
>>1158426 >NOOOOOOOOO IT'S NOT REAL CAPITALISM IT'S A MONOPOLY AND MONOPOLIES AREN'T REAL CAPITALISM I'm not even going to tell you to read theory, just take an Intro to Econ course lmao, the incentives for monopolies under capitalism are literally just Game Theory 101.
>>1160697 >are things really that bad the average russian makes less per month than the average indian when adjusted for the exchange rate you fucking idiot, living in russia is shit
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>>1163751 >Pretty sure 99% of posters here will agree with you that Ceausescu objectively sucked shit and was one of the worst HOWEVER... Transition to Capitalism made things worse in all cases for most people, including Romania. And yes, it's real Capitalism. And no, Communist regime cannot be blamed for reforms resulting in disaster.
>>1158471 >Hehe, the US (one of capitalism's biggest "successes") may still have slave labor at a higher rate than anywhere else on Earth, but guess what, so did Ceausescu, checkmate. We've already told you that Ceausescu was shit, why do you think your one particular shitty life under a particularly shitty socialist state somehow destroys socialism as a whole? Pure ideology
>>1160697 capitalism after the collapse of the soviet union ruined Russia
>>1159909 And you were born in the worst time for communism, not to mention the worst nation besides Democratic Kampuchea and Myanmar. Remember that literally the vast majority of ex-Soviets miss it like crazy, all of your arguments are based on anecdotes and conveniently ignoring even worse misery under capitalism.
>>1160037 This as well, it's always ironic to see self-proclaimed capitalists hate Keynes when Keynesianism was the only reason why capitalism was able to survive this long.
>>1163389 >he can't be either for or against communism >george soros net worth is $8.6 billion oh yeah gee i bet he's just neutral about all of this
>>1163826 uhhh, sweaty dont you know that George Soros is literally a commie? very anti semitic of you to suggest he may be on my side, problematic
>>1160181 Assuming you're arguing in good faith here, the whole "not real socialism" thing is paraded by dumbass succdems who think that socialism = welfare and anarchists who don't understand dialectical materialism. We're almost entirely MLs (alongside MLMs and Hoxhaites) here, we admire the socialist experiments of the 20th century. I'm curious how you even got here if you don't even have the slightest conception of our board culture, what are you, a /pol/ migrant looking to debate us epic style?
>>1160242 >as far as I know, the right wing movement here never held real political power And here's where I know you're either an expat or someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. Romania was an Axis minor that actively had fascist rule, idk how you cannot be aware of this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Romania_under_Fascism#:~:text=The%20Kingdom%20of%20Romania%20was,September%201940%20and%20January%201941. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_in_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Antonescu Seriously, you must genuinely be one of the most historically-ignorant people in Romania if you don't know Romania's long and bloody history with fascism. Ffs, they were a member of the Axis
>>1163676 This is the only real answer. The rest: >>1163732 >>1163710 >>1163751 >>1163759 >>1163770 >>1163771 >>1163775 are just arguing that a hypothetical system is better, not what I've lived. See >>1163449 and >>1163389 Stop defending the tyrants. >>1163745 > capitalism inherently rewards and incentivizes monopolies There are laws against that. But , yes, it happens on and on >>1163759 >Now Woman gets treated like equal, by beaten to red pulp and being murdered by drunken man who has no job and beat shit out of wife. Woman also became independent, by underfunding of childcare and healthcare and other social services. Also LGBT people have lot of freedom when chased by drunken mob who want to lynch them because leader Putin says gay not natural and must be illegal You do realize that all those things were happening before the 90s and even in a grater number, right ? >>1163830 >George Soros is literally a commie? He is neither. As I said, he holds no values >>1163835 > I'm curious how you even got here I have already explained. Someone pointed me to it. I've been having this talk a few times before
>>1163855 >you're either an expat or someone who doesn't know what they're talking about Maybe the 2nd option. I've posted my ID card in the thread. Yes, Romania was an Axis ally for a short period, yet the Iron Guard we were discussing. >Romania's long and bloody history with fascism 4 years >>1163835 > we admire the socialist experiments of the 20th century You shouldn't.
>>1163879 Yes, Ceausescu's socialism was shit by socialist standards, we've said that countless times already, do you really want us to suddenly use that as evidence that socialism in general is bad? We're not, just like you wouldn't abandon capitalism just because of Pinochet's Chile or Franco's Spain. Also, I hope you realize that the anon you responded to saying that "this is the only real answer" was fundamentally agreeing with us, communism is a historic endgoal to socialism, that's just Marxism 101. The idea that Romania, or the Soviets, or any other ML state wasn't a stateless, classless utopia is not only indisputable, but it has absolutely no contradictions with Marxist theory whatsoever.
>>1163897 Nice dodging of the fact that you said that Romania's right-wing movement never held much power, which I demonstrated was blatantly false. >4 years Yes, four years of collaboration in the Holocaust and fighting alongside fascism. Also, four years is the vast majority of WW2, it's a stupid point for you to say "oh it was only fascist for four years" when fascism itself only held major sway in Europe for a grand total of twelve years. >You shouldn't. By the same metrics you use to say we shouldn't admire socialism, we can easily say that you shouldn't admire capitalism or small government. For every sob story you have about "muh food" or "muh free speech", there are hundreds more horrors perpetrated under capitalism that we can spend all day discussing.
>>1163913 >it has absolutely no contradictions with Marxist theory whatsoever. When did I ever mention Marxist theory ? Or any theory by that matter. I'm more interested in practical results
>>1163938 Yes, and the practical results were good, I don't care if you had a shitty childhood, socialism industrialized Eastern Europe, lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty and illiteracy, and the destruction of it in Eastern Europe has destroyed their economies, ESPECIALLY the former USSR. Again, Romania is a very unique case here, where it had an absolutely horrific communist leader, but that doesn't indict the communist experiment as a whole.
>>1163879 >>George Soros is literally a commie? >He is neither. As I said, he holds no values Man you're retarded. Soros is a capitalist. That's not a question of what he believes in, that's a question of his relation to capital.
>>1160371 >Are you really comparing lines for Apple shit with lines for food ? What's the difference? Hipsters camping in front of an Apple store to be the first to fulfill their desire for special consumer items and people queuing for rare items such as tropical fruits (which were indeed sometimes rare due to western sanctions, however i personally never experienced shortages on bananas, that's a western meme) in the eastern bloc? There's no difference. Except under capitalism people daily also queue for food because they are so poor that they can't afford nutrition. Under capitalism everyday people are dying of hunger or freeze to death during winter, because they are homeless, can't afford proper heating, don't have access to clean water and so on. We had none of this in the DDR, infact every citizen having a home was a right anchored in the DDR constitution. When i was the first time in the BRD in december 1989 (West Berlin and Göttingen) i saw queues of unemployed people in front of the job centers, dirty homeless people and junkies. And i looked into their eyes, which felt like looking directly into a dark abyss of doom and hopelessness. Made me feel very uncomfortable. >muh corruption >Oh yes it was. The effect of it are still felt today, >many people are still corrupt as fuck. Widespread corruption is a result of the neoliberal shock therapy of 1990s neoliberal shock therapy. >Example : the medical system is in theory a state system, but if you did not give "something" to the medics, they wouldn't pay attention to you. Sounds like 1990s eastern euro anarcho capitalism. In the DDR the medical system was infact completely free for everyone. It was much better than what we have now in the BRD. The BRDs medical system wasn't that bad either though, but only until 2000. That is, until the Neolibs deliberately ruined it. >An apartment was either free or paid a token price of 1-2 rubles in the socialist bloc and the same goes for water and electricity Workers could relatively afford to buy apartments and then they were "free". Regular state owned new apartments or flats in buildings came with a very low rent. Pic related is how rent was calculated in the DDR during the 1970s. ~50M was still the norm in 1989/90. Average salary was 1,000 M/month. >My family had a house + terrain that the State took and built an apartment building over. Well i'm not Romanian but since Romania was a socialist country aligned with the USSR i imagine that it wasn't that much different from the DDR in terms of collectivization politics. So yes, after a popular referendum which got over 70% percent approval, we "robbed" capitalist investors and large land owners of "noble descent" in 1946. A lot of their property was nationalized during the Bodenreform and the descendants of these people are propbably still mad butthurt about it, because after 1990 the Bodenreform wasn't reversed entirely. You see, in 1946, after hundreds of years capitalists, nobles and church fags robbing the fruits of every commoners work, the plebs tasted a bit of sweet justice while the former upper class got their butts widened. I'm sorry, i have absolutely no sympathy for rich families losing property and "terrain" in 1946 to the state. Today rich families again don't give a shit about commoner's living conditions. They only think about making profit, leading to e.g. gentrification, forcing workers out of their homes and neighbourhoods or forcing them to sell their cottages etc. Also i still don't believe you're genuine. Maybe you're an ethnic Romanian expat or something, but i called you a liar because i'm still not convinced that you've been raised in the eastern bloc. You did not differentiate between communism and socialism, which is typical for westerners. furthermore, all the points you made against communism ITT are typical western anti-communist slander, including "North Korea is hell on earth" when you've been been there etc.
>>1163879 laws don't do anything. there are always loopholes or eventually they get thrown out, see tax havens. corruptissima re publica plurimae leges, and not in a libertarian way. >soros holds no values also, you're wrong. while a "progressive" thinker and somebody who supports "democratic, progressive" values, soros is also an avowed capitalist and if you had done some research you would know this. his OSF organization is literally publicly pro-capitalist and he himself helped topple the soviet union. please stop with the weird schizo soros boomer bs, he's literally just a billionaire like any other. and read a fucking book https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1993/07/finance-the-unifying-theme/305148/
>>1163953 *including "North Korea is hell on earth" when you've never been been there etc.
>>1163933 >Yes, four years of collaboration in the Holocaust and fighting alongside fascism I'm not going to defend fascism, but in a historical perspective, Romania didn't have a lot of deciding power. We are a too small country to have a real choice >>1163948 > socialism industrialized Eastern Europe, lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty and illiteracy How do you see 2020 Europe is the USSR hadn't collapsed ?
>>1163953 >people queuing for rare items such as tropical fruits People were literally queuing for eggs and bread, not tropical fruits. Before the 90s, I've only seen oranges maybe 3 times in total. >Widespread corruption is a result of the neoliberal shock therapy of 1990s neoliberal shock therapy. Not here. Widespread corruption was always around me and it will only go away as old people die. >Sounds like 1990s eastern euro anarcho capitalism. Again, no. This "habit" has been built up during the "socialist" years. And it was true for many other things: wanted the mechanic to do something ? Bribe - The clerk ? Bribe - The police ? Bribe - The priest ? Triple bribe >rich families losing property My family wasn't rich. We had literally that, a house and terrain, 300 square meters, not a fucking mansion. The irony that I pointed is that the State took something from us but never gave anything in return, not for free anyway as people seem to delude themselves into thinking. > Maybe you're an ethnic Romanian expat or something I've posted ID card from 2016. What the fuck. Many people are pro-capitalism here, watch the elections. >>1163954 > soros is also an avowed capitalist >>1163950 >Soros is a capitalist. Nobody here seems to like Soros. Why do you trust his opinion ? >>1163989 You will have to translate it.
>>1163953 >Workers could relatively afford to buy apartments and then they were "free". Regular state owned new apartments or flats in buildings came with a very low rent. Pic related is how rent was calculated in the DDR during the 1970s. ~50M was still the norm in 1989/90. Average salary was 1,000 M/month. You realize you have to adjust these prices to today's inflation and convert to euro, for anyone to understand anything. Also, saying the rent was low, doesn't mean "free". You were paying for an apartment for how long .. 30-40 years ? same thing today
>>1164056 Buying the apertmant you lived in was pretty easy
>>1164056 No need to adjust for inflation, all you need to do is compare it to an average salary,, which he did. 50M/month on 1 000M/month salary is really cheap.
>>1164025 >watch the elections. Even better, come here, I don't think you have a job anyway. I am willing to host you just so you can talk to people around and find out what they think. Here's a study done by someone else about Romanian QoL index, along the years https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330480915_Quality_of_life_in_Romania_1918-2018_An_overview
>>1163963 >I'm not going to defend fascism, but in a historical perspective, Romania didn't have a lot of deciding power. We are a too small country to have a real choice Good, now apply this same historical allowance to socialism, and realize that the socialist nations were under incredible economic and military siege. I recommend Parenti, he points out that many of the excesses under socialism were entirely explainable by their need to take harsh measures to survive against capitalism. That is why I'm willing to defend the USSR, because I realize they made incredible progress for a besieged nation that faced the brunt of two world wars. Assuming socialism had taken over Europe, way better. No shock-wave neoliberalism, no neocon warmongering (so no refugee crisis) and since this implies an overall Soviet victory in the Cold War, socialism itself would have far more social freedoms, as it would no longer be under constant siege.
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What was the point of this thread? Op started by saying life under Ceausescu was horrible, something everyone here already knew. So wtf are we doing here still talking? We're literally agreeing
>>1164114 >Assuming socialism had taken over Europe, way better. No shock-wave neoliberalism, no neocon warmongering (so no refugee crisis) and since this implies an overall Soviet victory in the Cold War, socialism itself would have far more social freedoms, as it would no longer be under constant siege. Do you think there would have been the internet ?
>>1164126 bro im with you, i have no idea why everyone here is so mad, guy is just a cringey xennial, not the end of the world and not the worst thing we have to deal with, hes not even overtly hostile
>>1164203 Of course, the Internet was the effort of government development of information technology, after all, there's no reason this state invention wouldn't have also occurred under socialism. If anything, it would probably be better, directing its efforts towards substantial technological improvements rather than overpriced Apple piece of shit #127
>>1164376 I agree, his arguments have been child's play to btfo, and these boomer ex-communists are pretty harmless. This isn't like neo-fascism, where propagation of the ideology is an active threat that must be fought. I mean, it's nice to have some easy arguments to BTFO, but I agree that people here are taking it way too seriously, especially that guy calling for the thread to be deleted and for all boomers like this to be executed.
>>1157879 Post chin with time stamp
>>1164203 The internet dates back to way before the USSR failed, it's a natural conclusion to the idea of connecting two computers together.
>>1164401 Tbf, anon, I do think this guy is a genuine ex-commie boomer and not a /pol/ack, usually closet /pol/ posters have more of an understanding of socialism (albeit still flawed ofc) and will try to make race-based or anti-materialist arguments instead of the boomer "haha look at (insert AES country here) you stupid commie". Also, this guy believes in the state-freedom dichotomy, which most /pol/acks have already cast aside (in favor of other capitalist nonsense ideologies, keep in mind). This is just a harmless xoomer who's stumbled upon this board and was expecting some liberal succdem talking points, only to be greeted by genuine ML theory and an accurate understanding of socialism. He's harmless, and I just hope he learns a thing or two from this
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Born in 99 lived 21 years of communism through 2020. Spoiler: It was bad, very bad. INB4 : But real capitalism has never been tried. Maybe. But what and how would you change
stalin had a great big donkey dick
>>1164413 God I love that fucking picture LMAO
>>1164421 That image makes me genuinely angry
>>1164402 >The internet dates back to way before the USSR failed Networks date before. Not the internet the way we know it now. How would it would have been different ? Obviously , not commercial. >>1164376 >>1164400 >>1164412 >arguments I didn't come here to discuss political theory. I just came here in hope my experience would find open mindedness, maybe not. As you've seen, there are people wishing that everyone thinking differently to be executed or bombed or some other horrible thing. This kind of fanntism is bad from the right or left, everyone has lost their mind. Also, you did not btfo'd anything ,you only proved to me that the world hasn't learned anything in the last 100 years. There are some reasonable people in this place, but most of you believe in empty doctrines that facilitated horrible things to happen.
>>1164447 I live in Cuba its good
Maos penis has a thick shaft
>>1164447 >I didn't come here to discuss political theory. Try >>>/GET/
>>1164447 >I just came here in hope my experience would find open mindedness, maybe not It's clear you're not open to being proven wrong, why should we?
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>>1164412 I'm thinking the same, but I find it kinda sus that he found this imageboard in the first place. You'd think he'd go to reddit or some other normie shit to talk about this, not an obscure Albanian basket weaving forum, unless we somehow made it into the mainstream lmao
Che Guevaras hog was about a metre long
>>1164464 Funny you posted that pic. What does this place think about McKenna ?
>>1164447 >but most of you believe in empty doctrines that facilitated horrible things to happen. By that same notion, I could indict your belief in capitalism because capitalism oversaw Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, Pinochet, Idi Amin, the Shah, Somoza, King Leopold, and countless others as well as dozens upon dozens of genocides. It's a shitty argument, indicting a political theory based on its proximity to atrocities, and you should learn that it is a losing game for capitalism, the ideology aligned with most of the worst atrocities of human history.
>>1164464 >I find it kinda sus that he found this imageboard in the first place. You'd think he'd go to reddit I've had bad experience with mainstream shit like facebook. I don't like censorship and bans. Again, someone from US pointed me here after having many talks about how our lives have been
>>1164469 >ould learn that it is a losing game for capitalism, the ideology aligned with most of the worst atrocities of human history. Maybe its time for the world to give up on ideologies, if capitalism can even be called that
>>1157879 So because some fucktard calling himself le ebin gommunist was put into power by other """communists""" and fucked up your country from a position of absolute control any attempt ate overcoming capitalism, which is literally going to destroy the fucking planet, cause endless wars, and dominates every single person living under it, is invalid? Doesnt really make sense to me bruh. Like fuck the USSR and all that bullshit, they basically screwed themselves, but how in the earth is the fact they fucked up even an argument when we talk about communism as the negation of predatory capitalism? Only means we cant allow ourselves to fuck up again - and I know that's exactly what the tankies are trying to do - but generalising all anti-capitalist notions down to the experiences made in the east block just doesnt hold up! The field of anti-capitalist theory is just too varried and by using your 'muh lived experience' arguments you aint adressing that!
>>1157899 Estonia sacrificed thousands and thousands of pensioners, sick people, unemployed to be a neoliberal shithole. Only rich people enjoy it there. From one extreme to other instead of balance between socialism and capitalism that Nordic countries have. They are so fucking high on nationalism idpol but still my country is full of them complaining about socialism. Not because socialism was inefficient but because muh russian oppression. Of course you end up in Siberia if you are an anti-communist separatist traitor in Soviet Union. I hope some day we have cure for this brain disease of nationalism.
>>1164502 >balance between socialism and capitalism that Nordic countries have We only have that because the Soviets were literally on our border ready to aid any revolution and porky got scared into giving concessions, which are slowly being undone now.
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>>1164447 I mean I don't mean to undermine your lived experiences, but as countless posters have already pointed out, hearing that Ceausescu is a sociopath that destroyed his country is nothing new. I really don't see how you expected that to change anyone's mind on a hardline communist imageboard. Also, if you yourself aren't open to changing your views, then why continue this completely worthless thread? Also >horseshoe theory Please fuck off
>>1164516 The far left and the far right delude themselves into believing different utopias, but in practice they act much the same And what is worse, both groups give up their individual freedom for an imaginary higher purpose.
>>1164533 >but in practice they act much the same no they aint, thats bs like the evry point of fascist ideology is to neutralise unwanted minorities while leftists want to change economic relations - that doesnt even directly necessitate violence
>>1164546 >leftists want to change economic relations - that doesnt even directly necessitate violence Why is there so much violence then ?
>>1164480 >Maybe its time for the world to give up on ideologies, if capitalism can even be called that Mate, you're being fed ideology every single day through everything you consume. How can you tell me that you yourself haven't been indoctrinated into certain beliefs? Case in point >>1164533 >imaginary higher purpose. As we speak the world is in one of the worst crises in modern history, with a literal mass extinction event looming over the horizon, both caused in majority by capitalism. And that's not even counting the wars, famines, and suffering caused by imperialism and exploitation all around the world. If you can look at this and genuinely think "capitalism is as good as it gets" and denounce anyone striving toward something better as equivalent to fucking nazis, then I'm sorry, but you've been literally brainwashed
>>1164553 Porky gets mad when we tell him to share his stuff.
>>1164571 >you yourself haven't been indoctrinated into certain beliefs? No, I'm a very selfish individual and gave up on beliefs a long time ago. >a literal mass extinction event looming over the horizon Unfortunately , humans won't get extinct because we are locust >both caused in majority by capitalism. So you think the Covid crisis was caused by capitalism ? Interesting, I've heard so many theories about that... Yeah, I agree. Unchecked capitalism is bad. It gets to abuses by people with power ( money ) So is fascism. So is communism.
>>1164553 If porkies gave up their power voluntarily, socialism could literally be achieved overnight with no drop of blood spilled. The reality is, though, that capitalists will do absolutely anything to keep their wealth. How do you think fascism came to be in the first place?
>>1164603 >No, I'm a very selfish individual and gave up on beliefs a long time ago. The worst case of pure ideology I've seen in a while. You're so indoctrinated you don't even realize it.
I was only seven years old. I loved Ceausescu so much, I had all the pins and poststamps. I'd pray to Ceausescu every night before I go to bed, thanking for the life I've been given. 'Ceausica is love', I would say, 'Ceausica is life'. My dad hears me and calls me dyslexic. I knew he was just jealous for my devotion of Ceausescu. I called him a cunt. He slaps me and sends me to go to sleep. I'm crying now and my face hurts. I lay in bed and it's really cold. A warmth is moving towards me. I feel something touch me. It's Ceausescu. I'm so happy. He whispers in my ear, 'This is my means of production'. He grabs me with his powerful vanguard hands, and puts me on my hands and knees. I spread my ass-cheeks for Ceausescu. He penetrates my butthole. It hurts so much, but I do it for Ceausescu. I can feel my butt tearing as my eyes start to water. I push against his force. I want to please Ceausescu. He roars a mighty roar, as he fills my butt with his love. My dad walks in. Ceausescu looks him straight in the eye, and says, 'Time to say Ciao-Ceausica'. Ceausescu leaves through my window. Ceausica is love. Ceausica is life.
>>1164603 >Yeah, I agree. Unchecked capitalism is bad. It gets to abuses by people with power ( money ) How would you keep it in check? Why isn't it already kept in check? >So you think the Covid crisis was caused by capitalism ? Interesting, I've heard so many theories about that... I mean, it's no conspiracy theory. If we treated the pandemic seriously from the very beginning and shut down everything, Covid would have been over by April. But of course, that would have been too much for porky's profits, so the show had to go on. Now look where we are. Anyway, my point was that the status quo you've been taught to protect is already bringing about unimaginable destruction and suffering, in addition to being unsustainable (see webm posted above). Why, then, would you blame the people advocating for radical change?
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>>1164690 Forgot pic
>>1164697 They deserve it for owning v*hicles
>>1164716 the banks own them
>>1164724 Oh fuck, i didn't even think about car rentals, insurance companies and title ownership
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>>1164716 based
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>>1164716 Based
>>1164740 >>1164724 Based, fuck cars, we are public transport gang up in here. Funnily enough, cars are actually a perfect demonstration of the failures of market competition, and as such are used as an example in basic game theory. You see, for an individual person, they will have to choose between public transport and a car for their transportation. Now, generally speaking, while public transport is cheaper, more environmentally friendly, and requires far less time and energy dedicated to it, most people will choose the car for its individualism and speed, the idea that you can traverse the road freely. However, in practice, as more and more people choose cars and use them, the roads start clogging up with traffic, as rather than having many people inside a single vehicle, each traveler is now inside a big-ass vehicle. With the roads getting clogged up with traffic, all the perks of buying a car, the autonomy and speed, are entirely done a way with as people are constricted to cramped roads moving at a homogeneous pace. From this example, we can see how a purely voluntary effort, of people choosing the effort that suits their own personal desires best, actually destroys everyone's desires as a collective, and leaves them with a more expensive, less environmental result without any of the benefits they had hoped for. It's the same way with laborers vying against each other to increase their stake in capital: their collective competition simply creates a worse status quo for everyone. This is why collective labor-welfare policy and labor unions are essential to defending the working class, as though "freedom of choice" sounds appealing, it often leads to a worse outcome than collective action. Same thing with corporate competition as well, except porky realizes this and instead creates monopolies. So please, OP, before you keep talking about "muh freedom to choose", read basic economic theory, as well as the Nobel-prize winning work of John Nash.
>>1164672 Thats quite good imagination. Put it to better use ! >>1164690 >How would you keep it in check? The keyword is abuse. There is controlling body in capitalism, political class, but it doesn't seem to function properly . Why ? Because they are so corrupt. What if the economic system - open markets, free trade - is not the root of the problem but the controlling body that's supposed to prevent all social and economic abuses is ? What is the guarantee that with another type of economic system, the controlling body will function properly ? The more authoritarian the system , the power power it will concentrate in the hand of a few , the more corruption. What is to say that socialist leaders won't mismanage resources and go on to pursue some pharaonic dream ? After all, you've seen it happen and it's the cause of all this discussion . What I would change is the controlling body. Not sure how yet, probably complete descentralization. >If we treated the pandemic seriously from the very beginning and shut down everything, Covid would have been over by April Why did WHO downplayed the issue in January and February ? Is it because they suck up to China ? A complete block of international travel would've been required , and very early. >the status quo you've been taught to protect I really don't want it to seem like that. The only thing I hold dear is freedom. I don't know if this: >>1164662 >You're so indoctrinated you don't even realize it. is the same person, but please detail. I hold no beliefs , others than stated above. It seems a contradiction to me. Also, I came in good faith, even though I've been accused of otherwise. But what hidden motives do I have ? I stated everything in the first post. >>1164781 >read basic economic theory, as well as the Nobel-prize winning work of John Nash. Will try to. I try to learn each day something new, but my work takes priority, and that's in the technical field.
>>1157972 librights see it as a good thing, you see.
I have literally waited in bread lines under capitalism. Waiting hours in line in a musty church basement to get stale bread and expired food that the grocery store threw out because my job started cutting my hours. I love freedom.
>>1165068 >Why did WHO downplayed the issue in January and February ? Is it because they suck up to China ? A complete block of international travel would've been required , and very early. iirc the actual WHO recommendation thr was a travel ban is unnecessary quarantine arrivals Total shutdown of travel from China might not have helped anyway since There's emerging evidence the 'Rona was in Europe before China Total international travel ban like you suggested would have been wise however At this point given the state of the USA I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese flu actually originated in the USA like the Spanish flu did tbqh
how do you even say this fuckers name
>>1165148 say it after me: EUROPE LIED PEOPLE DIED
>>1163879 >are just arguing that a hypothetical system is better, not what I've lived. False. It is you who is arguing in favor of a hypothetical system. Some sort of "pure", "uncorrupted" capitalism that has never been tried, which you can't even define, as opposed to the real Capitalism that exists in the world and in post-Soviet states. WE are comparing the real life in above mentioned states, on the other hand. >He is neither. As I said, he holds no values False, again. Soros is a Scion of Karl Popper, London school of Economics and Neopositivism. The very philosophical foundation of Neoliberalism - the "operating system" of Capitalism.
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>>1160371 >My family had a house + terrain that the State took and built an apartment building over. Every time. How is it that even with retarded Romanian communism, the people complaining about it weren't actually workers?
>>1160352 >The Pholosopher That fucking three stick bitch. Why is the right-wing of literally every country in the modern day depraved, America-humping shitheads that want the US to bomb their countries?
>>1165540 The only person that complains when a slave is freed is the master.
>>1163389 >1) People under the age of 35, they would've been 5 the time the regime fell, hardly any memories. After that, they've been largely protected from the reality around them by their parents and reached working age in 2005 the earliest. They can not objectively compare their reality with what was before. I might add here that there is a difference between believing in a fictional system where everyone is living good, people are equally represented, there are no more wars, etc - an idealistic and admirable dream, but sadly, not ever having been practical - AND believing that what was before 1990 was a good thing. >2) People after 65 : They were 35 at the fall of communism . As such, they were largely formed under a certain system and way of thinking and had a hard time adapting. They also experienced the worst period of instability 1990 - 2000. Many lost their jobs and haven't been able to learn new skills. After 2000, there was a short time of economic boom, followed by 2007 financial crash, which again impacted everyone. By the time things started getting better ( 2010-2012 ) those people were already in their 50s and unable to start a business or look for a better paying workplace. Now they are retirees and their only concern is their pensions - reason which they always vote left, typical for boomers I might add. I get their nostalgia for their youth ( pay attention , they were also young and able bodied ) but I also think it's nocive. You are gasping at straws at this point. This reasoning is a laughable demagogy.
>>1165068 well you are quite persistent in this but what have you learned from this thread? aren't you just repeating the same lines you said at the beginning? You may be happy with your own personal situation in capitalism but for most others in Romania it is very bad and will get even worse i the future But the future for Romania in capitalism: Romania will soon join the Euro currency area. Some people may be happy due to being able to travel to France or Germany without changing money. But for most, there will be crippling austerity (decline in infrastructure and services) to meet the requirements of Euro currency. Some people may claim it is a "globalist" conspiracy, but joining the Euro is a result of becoming capitalist nation in Europe. It is the natural result for having a capitalist system - that is one in which the means of production are owned by a minority, which can use its wealth to then control the whole nation It is also likely that most of Romania's land is now owned by EU food conglomerates of Germany France and Netherlands Maybe you now have an iPhone and like using it, but mostly capitalism is pretty shitty and will continue to get worse
>>1165510 chow chess khu
>>1157899 Prostitution is literally legal in Cuba, lul.
>>1165681 Based.
I saw a few people from Cuba posting here and then I stumbled upon this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFPjJM6yYS8 Heh, this is similar to what happened in Romania in the 2000s, ad-hoc networks all over the country. Eventually , they all been by companies infrastructure, but this initial "wild-west" of the Internet created a miriad of providers and created a lot of competition. This made Romania a country in the top 10 of internet access speed. Nice Cubans people, this is true anarchism, but don't expect it to last. Either the govn will crack it down, or it will be bought by someone. Everyone else, here's how the internet would ( not ) exist in an authoritarian regime
>>1165148 >the actual WHO recommendation thr was a travel ban Yes, but it came too late and to quietly. WHO actually said in January that there's no evidence of this virus affecting humans. After than, a multitude of mixed messages , masks are not helping, but wait, they are and so on. >iven the state of the USA I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese flu actually originated in the USA like the Spanish flu did tbqh If that's the case, nothing would help us, except periodic shut downs. Travel ban would've been late even in January. I've been in Krakow on the New Years Eve and the streets were packed with tourists, many from Asia and all over Europe. Had a mysterious high-fever cold one month later, but I doubt any connection. >>1165538 >It is you who is arguing in favor of a hypothetical system. ??? Which one ? >>1165540 >the people complaining about it weren't actually workers? My family never owned a business. The property was small as I said, it was taken during the actual communism ( late expropiation because they needed the land ) . Meanwhile , all my family was working in the Army or Police . Don't talk if you don't know the situation >>1165580 > for most others in Romania it is very bad How do you know that ? Has anyone commenting here even been in a 500 km radius of Romania ? >Romania will soon join the Euro currency area. Not for another 4 or more years. We don't meet the criteria >It is also likely that most of Romania's land is now owned by EU food conglomerates of Germany France and Netherlands Since I can't find any statistics, I'll have to take your idea. One thing I know, all the store chains here are from France, Belgium, Germany , etc >you now have an iPhone and like using it fuck Apple, never in my life
>>1167389 >fuck Apple And also fuck Google by that matter, I'd still have my old Windows phone if it didnt turn to crap
>>1158480 >Why do you think that Ceausescu needed to take that credit ? why do you think Gierek took out loans? it was very fucking far from necessary
>>1158533 >muh car wait time youu don't need a car when you have affordable and effective public transport dipshit >>1158552 what fucking invasion of Poland are you talking about? There was no invasion, and there should have been one! The little bitch Jaruzelski instead of doing something rational just decided to declare martial law and sit back and smoke crack like he did most of the time, maybe if the Warsaw Pact stepped in Poland wouldn't be the hellscape it is now >>1158592 >muh lines everyone who was there in the 80s in the socialist countries remembers the fucking lines, funy thing there was no lines before liberalisation, liberalisation always kills socialist econimes and governments and causes shit like this so you can cry "eMpTy ShElVeS eMpTy ShElVeS" like a retard >>1158617 >firing squad all anti-comm oposition "people" from the Warsaw Pact should be declared war criminals and executed >>1158638 most ex-Warsaw Pact countries are genuine shitholes >>1158655 woah there, don't forget about Dracula and sex trafficking >>1158668 ^TRUST ME MY FELLOW POLES, GREATER POLAND WIOLL RETURN AND BECOME WORLD POWER AND TAKE MARS >>1158689 >Poland the rich live in their comfy mansions while the poor live in shitty huts that are falling with 7 other people >>1158699 in almost every polish parking lot there is a romanian selling kitchen knives >>1158949 go away anarchist
>>1163449 >real communism communism is a goal to a chieve, not something you just do, by revisionism i mean bastardised socialism like in all Warsaw Pact countries post 60/s70s
>>1163897 >You shouldn't we absolutely should, while you keep shitting yourself over Ceausescu, we realise that the Warsaw Pact countries would be infinitely worse off without socialism
>>1163963 >How do you see 2020 Europe is the USSR hadn't collapsed ? better off
>>1167389 <It is you who is arguing in favor of a hypothetical system. >??? Which one ? Literally the very next sentence <Some sort of "pure", "uncorrupted" capitalism that has never been tried, which you can't even define, as opposed to the real Capitalism that exists in the world and in post-Soviet states. >Has anyone commenting here even been in a 500 km radius of Romania ? Salut :)
>>1167389 >500km radius of Romania? yes

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