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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion.

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Any PMC fags here? Anonymous 10/23/2019 (Wed) 04:17:05 No. 103011
very gay blog post incoming:

Just read Death of a Yuppie Dream by the Ehrenreichs a few days ago

http://www.rosalux-nyc.org/wp-content/files_mf/ehrenreich_death_of_a_yuppie_dream90.pdf

Nothing new here, but it was still pretty rough reading this description of the complete despair I feel sometimes.

> At its wealthier end, skilled professionals continue to jump ship for more lucrative posts in direct service to capital: Scientists give up their research to become “quants” on Wall Street; physicians can double their incomes by finding work as investment analysts for the finance industry or by setting up “concierge” practices serving the wealthy. At the less fortunate end of the spectrum, journalists and PhDs in sociology or literature spiral down into the retail workforce. In between, health workers and lawyers and professors find their work lives more and more hemmed in and regulated by corporation-like enterprises. The center has not held. Conceived as “the middle class” and as the supposed repository of civic virtue and occupational dedication, the PMC lies in ruins.

> More profoundly, the PMC’s original dream—of a society ruled by reason and led by public-spirited professionals—has been discredited. (...) the PMC has also managed to discredit itself as an advocate for the common good.

Right out of graduation I watched a lot of my friends who studied physics and (non computer) engineering jump ship to work at big tech companies. A lot of the ones who stuck it through with their majors are eating shit in PhD programs doing research on things they don't care about, trying their hardest not to think about the job market their broke asses will be entering once they finish their PhDs. I studied math and cs in college and not wanting to work for a tech company, opted to join a fucking consulting firm instead.

My boys and I... I guess we're the lucky ones. little to no student debt, pulling in 6 figures 2 years out of undergrad. the alienation is crushing. it's so fucking exhausting waking up in the morning knowing that a decade and a half of hard work and studying just allows me to whore myself out to capital for a better price than your average joe could get (yeah yeah, boo fucking hoo). It's not too bad now because I can look forward to leaving my job at the end of the year. But I wanted to bitch and moan a bit about being promised from a young age that my brains would be of some use to society.

Anyway thanks for coming to my TED talk.
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I would consider myself part of the "dumpies," which is a term I heard once to refer to people who were trained / brought up with the expectation of filling this managerial layer of society -- that includes academia, media, NGOs etc. along with many other industries -- but because of neoliberalism the economy has not been able to absorb these people; as a result the ex-PMC is "dumped" onto the retail economy. So it's made up with the detritus of that, mentally-ill headcases, et al.

PMC is not the right term. The PMC exists. But there is a difference between PMCs and dumpies.

If I'm going to go out on a limb, I think the dumpies might be developing into an intellectual "vanguard" so to speak for new socialist movements. These people have skills in writing, communication, "human resource" organization and graphic design. "Antifa" is not just anarchist street rats anymore but includes un- and under-employed professional gumshoes who are good at digging up information and doxxing people, which is why the fascists suck at it when they try to do it. Anyways, the question is whether "socialism" will just end up being diverted into restoring this old class position for the dumpies through more funding for education and the arts under a Bernie Sanders administration or whether it'll turn into something more radical. I'm not sure. I think it could go in different directions.

The Rosa Luxemburg Foundation, which published that, puts out a lot of good stuff and is closely linked with the DSA in the U.S. from what I understand. Like I've seen their stuff available at DSA tables, and DSA is full of dumpies. Dumpies of the world unite!
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Also, now that I think about it, Alexandria-Ocasio Cortez in the U.S. is a pretty clear example of a dumpie. Or she was one of these first-wave dumpies. She studied economics and then wound up being dumped into bartending because of the recession. So I have more thoughts about this.

This whole thing could be co-opted and yada yada. But the base of "left-populism" seems to be in the urban low-wage service sector; the workers here keeping the PMCs fed, massaged and caffienated so they can be more productive at their stressed-out office jobs that bring in the fat paychecks. Those well-paid PMCs tend to favor Warren and other Democratic candidates to her right. The goal of left-populism is different, and it's to unite the dumpies with workers in more traditional, productive industries like manufacturing who are more easily swayed by right-wing populism.

I think if we try to look at it somewhat objectively, people are not organized by "hopes and dreams" (or "thoughts and prayers!") but through interactions between themselves and various institutions -- think of it like active conversations -- that creates a general subjective and collective experience for all involved and relates in some way to their material interest. This is what the wife-strangling Marxist philosopher Louis Althusser called "interpellation."

So why are liberal professionals who work in cities... socially liberal? It's not irrational. If you work in integrated global services, finance, a major university, media and publishing and the arts, corporate branding and advertising, whatever; your material interest will probably relate in some way to getting along with a lot of different people from all over the world. Capital here is increasingly virtual and fungible. Social liberalism is productive and more in your interest, and these people are organized by institutions that share this general outlook. These institutions could be as simple as a Facebook group, a media outlet or a progressive-minded non-profit organization.

Same goes in the opposite direction for people who work in rural and exurban industries -- these industries are often rooted in particular places. Think of resource extraction like oil drillers and coal miners. These industries cannot be easily moved or not at all. A family farm might be passed down over multiple generations and is the source of the family wealth, like from father to son (land can only be divided so many times before it's worthless). Traditional, patriarchal norms are highly valued as are conventional gender norms along the lines of more physical work, like labor-oriented small business and blue-collar management. The center of these people's social lives is more likely to be church. They are more likely to be members of the NRA, among other organizing institutions.

Remember that capitalism is all about specialization of labor, and this goes from automobile assembly lines to "intellectual production" in universities. But Marx also saw this kind of specialization as one of the evils of modern life and one reason why people are alienated from the products of their labor, and each other.
Okay last post from me on this.

Sure, there are Frackers for Hillary and Hippies for Trump, but they're not the general rule. And in neither case of the American political parties are workers (like real proles here) as such represented, from either sector. A majority of people who make less than $30,000 per year will NEVER vote. Instead, the respective bases are more often to be found in the professional and management stratas -- the PMCs -- and politics becomes a matter of flattering the self-regard of these people and their prejudices towards the other. And a small-town Chamber of Commerce in Middle America that is solidly Republican is also comprised of PMCs.

The social conservatives are blamed for America's problems by being uninnovative, backwards deplorables. The liberals are blamed by threatening our traditional values, blah blah blah. Both are in service to the same basic interest -- capital -- and so neither actually talks about power. They each revert to the prejudices of their material basis to explain the world without reference to real distributions of resources. Our politics today is the result of a bourgeois contradiction, a rivalry within the ruling class, rather than between the ruling class and the working class as such.

So it's not enough for the dumpies to unite, either. They need to unite with the workers in the rural and exurban productive sectors. Right now, if these workers vote at all, they are likely to vote not in their material interests but with the interests of their rulers who talk and act like them, owing to their different material bases, even though the workers in these disparate industries have more in common with each other in terms of their economic class interest. Anyways, a left project that succeeds here does pose a threat to capital (it could at least reverse some of its gains, although capitalism's overthrow is very much in doubt) which is why the left is hotly opposed by the ruling class in a way that Trump is not with his focus on irrelevant cultural grievances.
>>103011
>it's so fucking exhausting waking up in the morning knowing that a decade and a half of hard work and studying just allows me to whore myself out to capital for a better price than your average joe could get (yeah yeah, boo fucking hoo).
Yeah, but its actually no big fucking hoo. The fact that people work so hard to study the thinks they like only to end up either being a dumpie or a complete wagecuck to cappies is fucking horrible. However, this doesn't mean we should sit around and wallow on our defeat when there's work to be done if were going to actually attain a better world. Were all exhausted, frustrated, depressed, and defeated but that's no reason to not fight tooth and nail to finally beat this fucking god forsaken hellscape of a system. You seem to have some capital, you can use it to spread awareness secretly or some shit. All we need to do is agitate, organize, and give words to the alienation so many people are feeling so maybe we can finally have a real movement. Thanks for sharing comrade.

>>103016
The dumpies of the US have some real revolutionary POTENTIAL but as it stands right now they cant seem to get over their disagreements on social issues which can literally be much more easily alleviated under a socialist society than a capitalist one. The thing that worries me is if people are appeased through capitalism generally getting more woke that these people will fall back on the whole idea that "yeah, capitalism may be bad but at least its not bad to ethnic or gender minorities" kind of shit. Also if a group like the DSA has any chance of actually rallying the working class they should really not only priorities their goals but also not alienate people who aren't as "pure" as them.
>>103021
Ty for ur posts fam
sorry for the ignorant question but what does PMC stand for? i only know it as Private Military Contractor but I don't think that fits here
>>103053
Professional-managerial class
>>103054
lol ofc
>>103011
Good post.
I'm a CSfag. I was making very good money, but I had to drop out of my job. It was all so soul crushing, artificial, superficial, and meaningless to work for a company that doesn't give a shit about anything except profit (although it pretends to give a shit, which made it worse).
Other workers seemingly didn't give a shit and talked about the company as a caring entity. I even tried radicalizing them, and the response was basically apathy or rejection because we were being paid well. Some older workers even admitted that in the early company days, most employees had expensive sports cars, and now most employees use the bus or have modest sedans.
I heard once "our benefits are aawwweesoomee" right after they were cut, but it wasn't obvious because they were shifted around. I stopped trying.
That wasn't even the worst part. All my co-workers were either parents which led their lives like a military schedule to take care of children and work, or were badly adapted liberal "geeks", who had no interest in anything except CS stuff and video games.
It was such an alienating experience. I once cried from a hug a non-work friend gave me. It was the only real social interaction I had felt in weeks, and it just broke me.
I used the "mental health days" as much as I could, but it wasn't enough. I quit and I'm now making 1/10 of what I was making, pinching pennies, but I'm happier and more satisfied. I'm very reluctant to enter the "normal" well paid workforce again, but living with so little income sucks balls as well. Fuck capitalism tbh.
>>103040
Good response.
>>103040
>The thing that worries me is if people are appeased through capitalism generally getting more woke that these people will fall back on the whole idea that "yeah, capitalism may be bad but at least its not bad to ethnic or gender minorities" kind of shit.
I think the idea of a revolution is probably not in the cards and I don't see a make-or-break political crisis for capitalism right now. I'm kind of resigned to the horizon being a left project of "militant reform" -- this in a way is almost like left-nationalism. What "left-populist" movements are proposing is to divvy up a bigger portion of national surplus and redistribute it in the national interest and not for the purposes of speculation and profit. But I think this is overall a progressive thing.

And I think they're getting better at it. In the U.S., I think the Bernie messaging from the weekend is very good, like "fight for someone you don't know." Seems to be moving away from the idpol framework which is very individualized by race and gender, and very personalized where the candidate is name-dropping all the different pet interest groups so everyone feels "included," which of course ends up alienating people from each other even more. Where by contrast left-populism creates this notion of "the people" and "the working class" which is complex and includes a lot of people who look very different, with the "leader" as such being more of a secondary leader who is more abstract. "Not me, us." I think that's within the socialist tradition, broadly speaking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mu-K6da4Os

I'm kinda reminded of something Michael Caine -- who is this turbo-reactionary rich actor -- said about Britain in the 1970s, when they still had nationalized industries in that country. He went, "it's a communist country without the dictatorship!" Of course he hated it lol

As far as the DSA goes, I don't think they're going to form some kind of Leninist government. I see them more as like the Wide Awakes of the late 1850s or something like that. I was using vanguard in very loose terms, and not in the Leninist version specifically. Probably a better term would be "intelligentsia."
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>>103062
>I once cried from a hug a non-work friend gave me. It was the only real social interaction I had felt in weeks, and it just broke me.
In the second half of the 20th century, tertiary education and social mobility increased. At the same time, we had neoliberalism. This is no coincidence. Of course, "social mobility" is just codeword for "fucking-people-over mobility". The people doing the fucking over change more frequently now, that's the main difference between the times.

Before near-universal tertiary education, if you were OP and you were born into a poor family, tough shit. You're working in the coal mines bro. However, you might be attracted to the union and you would make a good union organiser. These days, people like OP get accepted into the PMC and we never hear from them again. They are too "busy" to help the working class. People like OP (but not OP specifically) slowly become neoliberal fuckwits due to positive reinforcement from their situation in society.

Where are the Bill Heywoods of today? Why are union organisers shit these days? At a young age, those who would be good organisers are swept away and groomed for the PMC. They are never exposed to "dangerous" ideas or "filthy" working class people.

However, the system is slowly kicking an own goal. That relationship between education, social mobility and neoliberalism has fallen apart. There are fewer and fewer opportunities for young people and we're more educated and connected than before. Let's face it, if you were born twenty years earlier, would you be reading a website like this twenty years ago? No, because you'd have a job and a family.

Our situation under capitalism will not improve. The system has no means of automatic recovery. The only way out is to forge one ourselves. Don't underestimate imageboards like this one, it won't change society on its own, but it is where the dumpies can connect.
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What a depressing thread. Even worst is knowing that dumpies and PMC's are going to try and save their own asses with sucdem nonsense.
>>103020

I definitely read this comment on stupidpol a few days ago... Recycling material aren't we! Tyvm for being one of the consistent quality posters over there.

>>103040

You're right m8. Looking forward to get more active in local organizing, reading theory, and figuring out how to be useful outside of donating to succdem campaigns.

>>103062

These days I catch myself daydreaming about getting fired and working night shifts as a janitor or at the Shell across the street from my old place. Always thinking about how I can feed myself for cheap like my mom used to do. Fucking retarded I know, fetishising a low income life like that. But I guess that's how Corp life microwaves your head.
>>103040
>You seem to have some capital, you can use it to spread awareness secretly or some shit. All we need to do is agitate, organize, and give words to the alienation so many people are feeling so maybe we can finally have a real movement. Thanks for sharing comrade.
Theoretically if a township got a socialist major and they created food/shelter/water communalization programs where these things are provided by the city, do you think dumpies/woke pmcs would be a good demographic to advertise too to get STEM lords to work on community industry? because they are forced into poor jobs that dont utilize their skills because its inefficient, they would be tempted to do a job for 'less' but get to utilize their skills.
>>103307 (me)
mayor* instead of major lol
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As I understand it, PMC can be understood as somewhat similar in class position to the petit-bourgeosie. Marx argued that that group could go either way during a revolutionary crisis, either joining the workers or siding reaction. Similarly, in a crisis déclassé professionals could join the disgruntled working class in opposing capital, or existing PMC could support reactionary movements to defend their meager privileges under the existing order.
>>103307
>do you think dumpies/woke pmcs would be a good demographic to advertise too to get STEM lords to work on community industry?
Oh my god definitely, if a city provided income for work that you trained for but wasn't able to do because muh profits then im sure they would take the opportunity. I don't think though that they should be paid grossly less then they would if they were in private, probably just a little to save capital for other projects.
>>103550
>I don't think though that they should be paid grossly less then they would if they were in private, probably just a little to save capital for other projects.
Not to slip into utopianism but here was the deal i was suggesting:

Cities already have very tight budgets that cant really single handedly industrialize and socialist parties are made up of primaraly working class people with little capital, they do however (mostly in the case of the socialist party) have the ability to use labor power to create/grow essentials like food and shelter (within reason i suppose, it takes some capital to start a farm and build houses) but they cannot really get much farther than that without a modern engles to fund them. The idea is that dumpies (and some woke pmcs) are really not living too much above that "essentials" level (except the woke pmcs i guess), and might be willing to accept that probably much lower level of material living for the chance to work on actually solving problems that they were trained to do for the communities they live in, and as that ball gets rolling they can do more and more and raise material living standards to the point they can outright pay for new capital.

However its pretty idealistic and im not apart of the pmc class so i do not know the conditions they live in and asking to give up this for my vision could be too much
>>103562
>and might be willing to accept that probably much lower level of material living for the chance to work on actually solving problems that they were trained to do for the communities they live in, and as that ball gets rolling they can do more and more and raise material living standards to the point they can outright pay for new capital.
Its not utopian to build up productive forces and shelters this way, of course it would take some convincing to do but it seems reasonable.
>>103020
>Remember that capitalism is all about specialization of labor, and this goes from automobile assembly lines to "intellectual production" in universities. But Marx also saw this kind of specialization as one of the evils of modern life and one reason why people are alienated from the products of their labor, and each other.

Whats the solution to this? How would a low stage socialist society de-specialize labor but keep it efficient enough to compete with rival capitalist countries or insurrections? Would people have multiple jobs? but wasting 'smart' and 'talented' peoples labor in the field sounds like a great way slow technological progress.

>>103598
>Its not utopian
I really need stem and pmc types people opinion on this because if it were true more people would have been flying to cuba china dprk and the ussr and as far as im aware it is/has not the case
This is interesting, and I've always kind of wondered if I should even bother supporting socialism. I guess in this I'd be in the PMC, and from just browsing this board I always got the impression I'd be an outsider or champagne socialist or something because my wage is better than average. I've felt more like a "temporarily privileged dumpie" to use this thread's terminology rather than a future millionaire, which made me more favorable to anti capitalist ideas. But until now I pretty much just come here to shit post about American politics with people who aren't rightists or insufferable centrist liberals. So should I look more?

>>103937
I think it's possible, but you won't be able to convince someone to give up a really lucrative option for basically minimum wage level lifestyle just to help their communities. I know I wouldn't, and I'm already in a significantly less lucrative job than my university peers in exchange for better working working conditions and for my work to be something that's given freely to the public. If the problems such a position would be tasked at solving weren't interesting either, like the equivalent of, I don't know, data entry, it'd be much much harder to find people willing to do it.
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>>103992
>This is interesting, and I've always kind of wondered if I should even bother supporting socialism. I guess in this I'd be in the PMC, and from just browsing this board I always got the impression I'd be an outsider or champagne socialist or something because my wage is better than average.
Socialism really isn't (or should not be anyways) about moralizing about one's class position or individualizing it in this way. It's more an understanding that socialism -- as a general rule -- is more like an active process embedded in the real movement of history, and its laboratory is the real-life class struggle which we see emerge on large / mass scales. Karl Marx also didn't come up with dialectical materialism because he was "more worker" than everyone else, for instance, or because he was the smartest guy ever -- although he was pretty smart. No, it's because capitalism had just developed to the point that it could be studied and deconstructed in such a way. If he hadn't come up with it, someone else would've.

Now whether there's a direct relationship between one's subjective class consciousness and one's objective / structural class position is a more complex question. But I don't think it's as straightforward as the old-school orthodox Marxist stuff made it sound, which is why we're in the situation we're in, and it's not necessarily the case that "the workers" (oh yeah!) will buy into a socialist program.

The French Marxist philosopher and wife-strangler Louis Althusser tried to figure out why this is, and he came up with this concept called "interpellation." It basically means that people are not organized by hopes and dreams (or thoughts and prayers!) but by various institutions that engage in a conversation between themselves and various participants, which creates a certain shared subjective experience (i.e. ideology) for all involved -- and clustered around specific class interests. So people who belong to the managerial / professional class in conservative parts of Middle America will belong to Evangelical churches, the NRA, suburban PTAs, homeowners associations, maybe a small Chamber of Commerce. Other institutions may be less formal -- parent groups online or social media networks. Some are basically one-sided: watching Fox News.

Some institutions are merely repressive. Police for instance. When a police officer shouts "hey, you!" to a black man in America, that creates a certain and distinct subjective experience. Even if you are not normally thinking of yourself as "a black man," this repressive institution just reminded you that you are. So individual subjects are mainly produced by larger social forces, rather than acting as powerful independent agents with self-produced identities.

However, people can -- and often do -- belong to institutions that have dissonant messages and that speak to them with conflicting assumptions about their identities (and this is where you come in), but over time folks will tend to gravitate towards those that avoid provoking such discomfort. These institutions also allow debate and dissent, but within boundaries that actually reinforce the basic identity.

Again, this happens because institutions that conflict with people’s role in producing and reproducing our social order will either make those people feel bad or make them act against their immediate material interests. Either the social order will be undermined by these institutions or the social order will force these institutions into falling into line with specific class interests. As you can imagine, the larger social order is far more powerful than any single institution within it, so individual institutions tend to flow towards specific class fractions, overlapping with other institutions popular among those same populations to create those constituencies as organized elements of society.
>>103937
>I really need stem and pmc types people opinion on this because if it were true more people would have been flying to cuba china dprk and the ussr and as far as im aware it is/has not the case
>expecting american stemfags to move to the dprk or cuba
you're aware of the constant propaganda against these states right?
>>104021
excellent post
>>103992
Anyways, none of this is to say that you're a "bad person" or a "champagne socialist" because you have a better wage, or like "you can't be a socialist" or something. That's nonsense. But I think, as a general (and not iron-clad) rule, that the PMC *as a class* will tend to gravitate toward institutions that provoke less discomfort -- and those will overlap with other institutions popular among the same constituencies. So, the Warren campaign in the United States for example, which is overlapping with Vox.com or something which is this very D.C. Beltway liberal magazine that is popular with the PMC fraction. And yeah, they might be open to the idea of a universal healthcare system, but the struggle required to achieve that will probably provoke more discomfort (for them) than doing nothing: and any single institution within that constellation will be too weak to achieve it.

Now this is point the Chapo boys make all the time. The PMCs -- as a class -- may be partial to some goals shared by the left but going beyond repealing the Trump tax cuts is going to require mass pressure waged by a mass, popular working-class movement that can do things like shut down airports and highways and really threaten the underlying productive base of the economy, because you're going up against a very powerful enemy that controls 1/6 of the U.S. economy. The PMCs as a class can't bring that pressure to bear. They're not organized to do so. So it's really more of a matter of what class is leading the struggle and how the larger movement is organized. It's not like "no PMCs allowed," and in fact it would probably fail if they weren't allowed to take part. So "PMCs for socialism" isn't unusual anymore than to see Hippies for Trump or Cops for Hillary. People are complicated and like I said they can belong to various "interpellating" institutions.
>>103992
>I think it's possible, but you won't be able to convince someone to give up a really lucrative option for basically minimum wage level lifestyle
It really does feel like a chicken and an egg, to attract traditionally higher paid workers to build/think higher living standards, it needs to have higher living standards. Which is why this movement would need to religh so heavily on dumpies. However, in my opinion, capitalism will grind out either more dumpies or more people like op who would be willing to be one of the initial seeds.
>data entry
To make up the deficiencies of other things the former(current?) PMCs would probably get their pick of the pen on what to work on, and (not to be elitist) the uneducated would do most of the low labor, which is what a socialist party could provide as they are(should be?) mostly working class.

>>104021
>It basically means that people are not organized by hopes and dreams (or thoughts and prayers!) but by various institutions that engage in a conversation between themselves and various participants, which creates a certain shared subjective experience (i.e. ideology) for all involved
idea: communist lifestylism
Good post though

>>104028
>you're aware of the constant propaganda against these states right?
True however that same propaganda would be levied against that movement as well so its something to consider i guess
>>103307
The problem with "Socialism in One City" is that city governments have limited budgets. You can't employ everyone, like a national government can.

However, you can increase revenue by insourcing some of the services the city government pays for. This will give you far more bang for the buck because most of those outsources rip off city governments. You can employ more people than the outsources do.

Also, you can use other legal means to stall big businesses in your city. For example, don't approve construction permits to build a McDonalds.

>>103550
>I don't think though that they should be paid grossly less then they would if they were in private, probably just a little to save capital for other projects.
They can be paid as much as they get in a dumpie job. They don't need any more incentive to jump ship to the community sector. Since the city government has a small budget, we need to pay dumpies the minimum, so we can employ more of them.
>>104173
this is what i talked about Here >>103562 basically instead of paying for it with money, pay for it with direct materials that can be built with general workers


i think your right though that its just reinventing basically the ussr on a smaller, electoralist scale
bump
>>104021
Not OP but thank you for a coherent, insightful post. Maybe it's time to read some Althusser.
Althusser poster is bang on with interpellation and I get the feeling it's why we (the left) have the layer of the pmc that we do. Social workers, teachers, university staff and a fair amount of Tech workers who missed the bus on being in the managerial layer etc. In the tendency marx describes where society is divided into two great camps I tend to find that in the cities especially, pmc people are dealing with either workers, patients, students and poor clients or their bosses and multi property owners with no in-between, where independent professionals may have dealth between SME owners on their own terms and negotiated contracts alot of them are doing so under the boot on pre-figured guidelines by some fuckign communications major.

It's kind of just as well that I was born when i was, I'm the first person in my family to go to university, my mum worked in a supermarket for like 20 fucking years and my dad just bounced around whatever was the hot ticket work in the region trying to claw social mobility from porkie before fucking off. I'd hate to watch myself turn into a liberal fuckstick. It's rea;;y important that we're building up prole institutions because if a green new deal/ revitalisation of the PMC is on the table you bet your ass they are going to do eveerything they can to cut off the revolution there and run. Don't let that happen comrades.
>>103020
>try to make a case for the professional managerial class
>post a shitty social fascist
lol
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>>120612
Fucking this. Also pretending as if working class = uneducated does a gigantic disservice to the working class whether educated or uneducated, especially since some of the biggest issues in the entirety of the west keep concerning the rollback of the post-war consensus part of which was general accessibility to education for people who only before WW2 would be laughed at for even attempting to go to a higher education institution. It is a complete failure of analysis to not be able to connect the following together:
1. post 1990s the neoliberal consensus moves away from principles of full employment towards the use of unemployment as a wage control
2. the way this is implemented is, aside from widespread privatisation, through a consistent increase in education demands for non-manual service work, which is actually becoming a majority sector at the expense of manufacturing in most developed economies
3. the working class are now accessing post-war consensus education en masse to keep up with employer demands
4. as this is incompatible with the principle of rolling back the state, higher and further education is under attack (in the UK alone the concerted attack on colleges and privatisation of universities since 2007 has been unprecedented in scale, in the US this is seen as the exponential increase in student fees). this translates to a university culture change from "get an education" to "prepare for your new job", aka universities are largely serving their original purpose in name only, serving instead as general pre-employment training as opposed to research and critical analysis development. public private partnerships in particular are the most retarded here, with companies using government as well as workers' personal cash to have their r&d done for them and have their employees trained for them
5. fast forward to now: the working class has accessed higher education to keep up with employer demands, but this does NOT translate to higher wages at all because the value of the university degree has actually suffered an inflation due to the manufactured need for a university education for jobs that really don't need one
666. workerist morons show up to defend this by denying any of this ever happened and pretending as if society is now the same as in the 1900s
I direct you all to read this report where the IFS basically recognises that capitalists are using higher education levels to shift more work to workers (aka "decentralised management") while also paying them less because of oversupply: https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/bns/bn185.pdf
>As the relative supply of graduates increases, the relative wage will fall and, once it reaches a critical threshold, firms will begin to adopt the newer decentralised form of organisation. The relative wage will stay at that critical level until all the firms have switched to the new form. After that, the relative wage should fall if the supply of graduates continues to rise. Thus, there exists a transitional period when the relative wage of graduates is invariant to supply changes.
>We argue that this is how the UK avoided any obvious decline in the wage differential between graduates and school-leavers during the 1990s and the 2000s, when the proportion of graduates increased substantially.
>So, what does this theory imply for the future? It suggests that, after all firms have adopted the new organisational form–that is, after the transitional phase–any further increase in the graduate proportion should have a negative impact on graduates’ relative wage.
>Hence, we believe future increases in the proportion of graduates in the UK will tend to reduce graduates’ relative wages, unless some other skill-biased technology becomes available.
>>103016
>"Antifa" is not just anarchist street rats anymore but includes un- and under-employed professional gumshoes who are good at digging up information and doxxing people, which is why the fascists suck at it when they try to do it.
Sorry but this is just cope. The doxxing and investigative work Antifa has done isn't all that sophisticated.
This is coming from one of the few on this board that enthusiasticly support Antfi.
That degrees have become more widespread and inflated only means that not having one is even worse. If only the upper 10% have one it's not a big deal to be without, but if the upper 40% do you are pretty much in the bottom half already without it. Formal education is a pretty clear caste distiction, all important jobs require one, moving to another country effectively requires one and even though 60% percent of graduates are female they all demand someone with a degree too. The differences in life outcomes in terms of inxome, health and so on are massive between the educated strata and those below them. It's also almost only the latter that are negatively impacted by migration. Make tertiary education mandatory like secondary is or piss off you elitists.
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>>120907
>broo mangaers are totally revolutunary
>>103066
So you see them as essentially a "Vanguard" in the same way that Gramsci would ask for a Working Class Intelligentsia?
>>103011
What's PMC stand for. Anyway I'm in this boat, but I hate workers. I've tried a millions times to help workers with my extra money and the only thing they ever do is use it to sell even more of their labor to porky and guilt trip you into giving more.
The only time I felt good about helping people was in Mexico. Those people loved the help and actually used it constructively instead demanding I navigate a minefield of insecurities like white burger workers do.
Seriously fuck first world burgers, they're going to have to be murdered in mass by porky before they even begin to question capitalism.
Sorry the "rising red zoomed tide" is a meme.
>>103537
This is exactly what is happening right now, and currently the 2nd option is winning in the US, but we're long overdue another recession, which I'd anticipate anyone on the edge of this phenomena with an Education system like the US means that another generation of these "dumpies" are going to be proletarianized even harder
>>120930
Fuck Gramsci
all my niggas hate Gramsci
>>120933
*rising red zoomer tide
>>120907
Have you somehow gotten access to Freddie DeBoers new book ahead of time or something lmao?
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*ahem*
Fuck the students
Fuck the academics
Fuck the professionals
Fuck the managers
Fuck the intelligentsia
>>120940
brainlet gang assemble
>>120940
very nuanced take
10/10
I would highly advise reading sections "The Citizen Factory" and the following parts "The Biopolitical Tradition" and "War on Work!" from Tiqqun's "This is Not a Program" concerning this phenomenon. Basically, and others have said it, these people are just 100% integrated into capitalism and capitalism is itself in the spectacle remolding subjectivities for compatibility in production (>badly adapted liberal "geeks", who had no interest in anything except CS stuff and video games.) The rest will be thrown on the social refuse pile. What we are talking about was being said 20 years ago.

>>103053
before I saw OP's image that's what I thought too but then I thought it was professional middle class. Now I get it, especially given that language which I also hear in the public grade schools
>>120943
Tell me again how students, academics, professionals, managers, and intelligenstia are coerced into being exploited. Tell me again how they may come to the side of overthrow of the bourgeoisie and the state.
>>120941
at least we have Bakunin's ghost on our side
>>120963
What's wrong with Bakunin?
>>120963
>Read Tiqqun
OK. Here's Tiqqun:
>I keep my distance, I don’t enter into the space of the flows, I don’t plug in, I stick around. I wield my passivity as a force against the devices. Neither 0 nor 1, I am absolute nothingness. Firstly: I cum perversely.
Now what do you do with that "knowledge"?
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>>120963
students from K-12 are suffering from underfunded schools and liberal teachers
college kids not so much
>>120991
Merging theory and praxis. Based.
>>120964
Nothing whatsoever.
>>120965
I remember you from old /leftypol/. Great to see you again, cumrade.
>>120968
agreed. Those schools are simply holding pens for proletarian children. Generally when we say "students" we refer to students who have chosen to be students at this or that college or university.
>>120907
>pretending as if working class = uneducated
That's a straw man and you know it, in the PMC discussion.
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Someone linked me to this thread in another thread, but yeah this thread is pretty relevant to me.

I graduated in May with a degree in Computer Science and I have yet to find a degree for my field. I have been pretty fucking depressed in my past few months of unemployment.

There definitely seems to be an ever narrowing opening for entry level programmers, data analysts, etc. for comp sci as for fresh graduates in general. Statistics have been showing this and there's an ever growing number of "dumpies" it seems.

CS is definitely not my main passion, I chose it because it seemed like the sweet spot of an interest and what can earn me money so I don't end up hating myself. However it seems like I keep seeing more and more proof that I'd probably end up hating working at these sorts of positions if I go into the field. My experience going into tech professional meetups, going on reddit, talking to my ex I'm on friendly terms with that's a current data analyst, and this anon's post >>103062 seem to line up with the fact that if I get a job in the field the work environment would be dealing with liberals and libertarians who hold these countries to standards as esteemed contributions to society and suck corporate cock or whatever while I'd probably be struggling to keep up with deadlines since I'm a slow coder and I'd probably end up hating my life.

I don't know what the fuck to do now, might just go full academia and pursuit a doctorate in history. I'd definitely pursuit working for the betterment of a city run by leftists as a marxist with nothing to lose and everything to gain from it, so long as I have enough cash to pursuit my music.

I agree what people here are saying though, it seems like it might be the most logical path to socialism in the current environment, some form of local level providing a better alternative to the main capitalist society path.
>>125056
recently, i have been getting more optimistic about my plan. I have been reading about mmt and coming to the realization that my utopian garden city could transition to lower lower stage communism using its own currency as a pseudo-labor voucher. basically, the govenrnment has complete control over the money supply, the utopian garden city can simmulate this at the local level, completely legally. the govenment will then act as a city wide co-op buisness that has the ability to print its own currncey, like those mining towns. This will allow people to get their full value of labor without the buisness having to worry about shaving surplus value off the workers. I havent quite figured out how value judgement will be applied to IP and non commodities, but for commodity production it can be based off supply and demand like normal. This will be good for people like you because you will now get nearly the full benifits from your labor for whatever you do, and the basically gurenteed full employment means you dont have to fight for a job. Anyways, that was a rant pls no bully
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>>125068
>my utopian garden city could transition to lower lower stage communism using its own currency as a pseudo-labor voucher
>>125079
yeah what wonderful success marxists have had huh? maybe i should turn america into another failed socialist experiment too like every other time a retard with a gun thought that a revolution will magically fix everything. OR MAYBE, leftists should be focusing on creating a more efficient economic model that out competes capitalism like it did to feudalism. https://cosmopolitanmongrel.home.blog/2019/09/30/the-innumerate-left/
>>125101
to be fair, revolution has had better shots with people with guns in the past because there wasn't this giant overarching military-industrial complex we have now
>>103011
I'm not part of the "PMC" because I'm a major fuck-up, but I applied to Amazon recently and I think I now understand one of the reasons why they have expanded so rapidly.

They don't ask for resumes or do formal interviews. Outside of jumping through a few hoops (drug test, orientation, etc) they just let you through. Because they have such a large demand for work, they let basically anyone in. Now, the big downsides to this system are that you have zero job security (they state up front that they can let you go at any time and you can leave at any time), and that the job itself is very demanding. But it's still incredibly appealing compared to dealing with the absolute nightmare that is the modern job market. They are taking advantage of how terrible the system is and giving people an alternative, which many of them will take because they're desperate.

There's this narrative that the job market was so much better in the mid-20th century. I'm not sure how true it is since I wasn't alive then, but I think there's no question that the modern job market is fucking stressful and is purposefully designed to discourage people. I don't know how much of the blame is on CEOs/corporate boards, and how much is on human resource departments who have moved towards algorithms/filters/online applications to make their own jobs easier.
>>125101
If by failed state you mean M-L I really hope America becomes a “failed state.” Think of all the Abram Tanks with red stars painted on them and how cool it’ll look.

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