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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

Unpopular Opinions Anonymous 10/16/2020 (Fri) 23:47:21 No. 1006777
Unpopular opinion thread because I don't see any I'll start: people can be Marxist without reading theory, not everyone has time to obsessively read over every book with the word communism (and I read theory)
>>1006777 >people can be Marxist without reading theory I mean sure, marxism has a lot of depth to it. I don't think it's appropriate to call yourself a marxists if you don't understand the basics of marxism, which I think the bare minimum is to understand the LTV, like not reducing it to the Ricardian ltv (labor time "creates" value, instead of socially necessary labor time). Also, in my opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with delegating opinions to better read marxists. If michael hudson or michael roberts say x or y, it's fine to just take their word for it. Just be honest about it, of course. And I think it's fine to call yourself a marxist if you only delegate your opinions to what other people say, as long as your up front and transparent about it. Here's my unpopular opinion: Hegel is fucking awesome, and critical to advancing marxist thought. Doesn't matter if you don't get it, any hegelianism and any marxism is good. Learning isn't binary, you aren't a non marxist, then a marxist the next day. You learn and learn and each step of the way you gain more perspective. Before you know it, you have gained a newfound perspective that will be useful forever.
>>1006816 You don’t need to read Capital to get a hare minimum understanding of Marx’s theory or even the law of value >>1006828 Will you stop trying to kill threads, you fucking faggot?
1) Not sure how unpopular this is here (it isn't unpopular at all in irl leftist beliefs/orgs) but not only is there nothing wrong with patriotism but it's actually a very good tool at unifying the working class, especially if most of that country's industry is owned by foreign capitalists. Again, maybe most of /leftypol/ agrees but I know there are those couple of posters who absolutely detest any type of patriotism, most likely from 5 Eyes imperialist or puppet countries, I feel sorry for them. 2) Caleb Maupin is cringe, but he's not cringe for being a dengist (as a matter of fact that's one of his least shitty atributes) but he's cringe for being a brainlet who either hasn't read any Marxist theory or he read some but didn't understand jackshit. This is extremely noticeable when you see his livestreams, you'll notice that almost naturally no one asks him any questions on theory or socialist shit itself. This is because his audience are also complete brainlets on Marxism, and if someone were to actually ask him a theory question he would be unable to respond properly. He (and his audience) only care about geopolitics, which while they're definitely important, it's the only thing he talks about and knows about. It most definitely has to do with him being an RT journalist. Also it's very noticeable due to his vague ass definitions of socialism and very random and false statements on Marxsim (like his "Marxism is about growth" video. Tf does that even mean?) 3) Left unity is impossible, the only thing which is attainable is a united front type situation between communists and anarchists, and not only is it attainable but it might even be necessary in the future, and even if not it would still help us out against the rightoids, I mean ffs guys communists and nationalists already did it in China, I'm sure we can manage to do it as well; however unity itself, permanent unity will never be achievable due to the inherent contradictions between stances of Marxists and anarchists on certain topics.
Unpopular opinion threads always turn into "I actually don't know what I'm talking about but let me say some stupid shit"
I agree, but I still think theory has plenty of value and we're gonna want people with the deeper knowledge of it to implement the changes we want. I'm willing to admit that the deeper aspects of theory still elude me and many always will. Hell, I was radicalized more by history than theory, so you're not wrong.
Not so unpopular opinion: This thread is going to be shit.
>>1006846 It's why I always think thoroughly what I may think is correct but many people here would disagree instead of downright spamming thermonuclear takes for (you)s
Krontstadt didn't have to end the way it did.
>>1006835 >Will you stop trying to kill threads, you fucking faggot?
>>1006866 Agreed. Should have summarily massacred the entire city
Every AES was revisionist Idealism is warranted and sometimes necessary; it cannot be avoided A degree of utopianism is needed to at least have some vision, without it the ideology becomes too mechanic, too weak and vulnerable to compromise
>>1006878 t. Faggot
I don't know how unpopular this is, but I doubt the notion that the working class by itself without the guidance of a revolutionary vanguard party is itself inherently revolutionary, meaning that the workers as class by themselves will autonomously try to transform their own conditions into something that resembles socialism. We see time and time again that in times of turmoil without the presence of influential Marxist parties the majority of workers accept social reform and benefits over revolution, and ever since the USSR has been defeated and blackest reaction has globally set in even these reforms were lost and the workers just folded over and accepted this situation. I also certainly don't see many unions, coops and such appearing lately as Marx predicted, even though the situation has gotten a lot worse and capitalism is nearing its end.
China is socialist.
>>1006777 “Be Marxist” is kind of meaningless.
>people can be Marxist without reading theory Yes workers can but the only people who flaunt the fact that they 'don't read theory' are unemployed teenagers who have nothing else to do anyway.
>>1006895 "Socialism" is a meaningless buzzword.
Weed ,non communal housing ,non communal transportation and many other things are bourgeois eccentricities
>>1006777 I think you can truly want a better world and be a revolutionary not ever having read a fucking book in your life -- that's certainly true of a great many people. But to call yourself Marxist requires some knowledge of Marxism, that requires reading imo and there's no real substitute to books yet for proper understanding and study. Most revolutionaries and people ought to never call themselves Marxist and that's fine.
>>1006902 Weed usage predates the bourgeois class by a wide margin.
>>1006909 The bourgeois ruling class has thus far been the first and only ruling class to prohibit cannabis usage
>>1006916 Yeah, is that an agreement or a disagreement?
Not unpopular with the left, but maybe here, but Marxists who view Pride parades and the incorporation of LGBT culture into the bourgeois superstructure as a conspiracy or plot against socialists have a quasi-mystical, ahistorical, un-dialectical, un-Marxist and frequently reactionary viewpoint. In fact, this was an attempt by bourgeois-democratic society to resolve an increasingly crisis-prone contradiction within itself. That was the contradiction between an oppressed and partially-lumpenized gay underclass that had unsafe sex practices and the rest of the society, a contradiction which had been unresolved and allowed to fester, resulting in a health crisis (HIV/AIDS) emerging from within that underclass in the 1980s, which was allowed to spread unchecked throughout that population, which did not have access to health resources in a for-profit mode of production that excludes much of the poor people from those resources anyways. In fact, the ruling ideology thought the plague was funny and popular comedians and politicians frequently made jokes about it (1/3 of the gay population at the time died). But the "joke" was also on them as the virus spread to the straight population as well. Once that happened, it was necessary to partially resolve the contradiction by investing in health resources, not a cure for AIDS necessarily but medicines and treatments -- material resources -- to prevent people from catching it and reducing its spread, while also modifying the superstructural side of the house, absorbing gay people into bourgeois society and inculcating bourgeois values into them (marriage, discouraging promiscuous sex, etc.). The fact that history happened this way and within a bourgeois-democratic framework, and not some other way such as a socialist transformation of society, has more to do with the failures of socialists if anything although it probably was just how it was going to happen, and there's no reason to be mad about it -- although it is a vivid example of the violence and cruelty of capitalism which would leave a vulnerable social group on the margins to die in droves like that and laugh about it until it was too late and the broader society was also at risk. Full communism now.
>>1007377 >but maybe here great post, but I have never seen this.
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>>1006902 what a shame
>>1006777 Drug dealers are worse than Nazis
>>1007381 I think it used to be more common to see posts whining about Pride parades as being a divide-and-conquer capitalist plot so gay people can't be communists now but I think that's now just a tendency among stupidpol types who wander in from time to time and then get bludgeoned to death by authentic Marxists.
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"Labor vouchers" are money with a unique standard backing it. You're just trying to seem extra cool and smart by being pedantic and esoteric. Everyone's still going to call it money. It more or less serves the same purpose as money (being a representation of value and means of exchange), and you only put people off by insisting on using a unique vocabulary that only other autists understand. Stop it.
>>1007479 Labor vouchers cannot be accumulated and traded. They are literally not money. Once they are spent they dissipate. Completely different thing.
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>>1007479 SHUT THE FUCK YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT
>>1007377 This, the fact of the matyter is that leftypol is so scared of anything it deems "idpol" that most people here fail to recognize the extreme intersection between the fight against capitalism and the fight for gay rights, racial equality, etc. For fucks sake, the Black Panthers carried around copies of the Little Red Book, what more do you people want?
>>1007499 Was Company Chit not money?
>>1007544 >Claims it's some kind of super objective analysis of reality Religion does not do that. Science does, though. What do you think religion is?
>>1006844 >who absolutely detest any type of patriotism, most likely from 5 Eyes imperialist or puppet countries, I feel sorry for them While I agree with you that patriotism can be a roll for our goals, because workers are still stick in their old ways and its easier for them to fight "for the country". Its still just a tool, a dangerous one. It can be turned against them movement and can lead to pretty infighting between orgs from different states which gov was against the other state (for example, I dont see ukrainian and polish workers helping each other because of certain stuff in the past). You can always say that there is "good patriotism" and "bad" one, but arent all of them based on possesive gov who wants to call certain piece of land "their"?
>>1006777 99% of the left is basically useless politically speaking. it's a formless mass of people with a few cultural touchstones in common, but without anything by way of real political or organizational power. as an "institution" (it's not really one thing, but run with me here) the left suffers hard from the iron law of institutions: the people on the left tend to care more about their status within the left than they do about the success of the left. being the top khmer rouge theorist on Twitter is a task someone is doubtless dedicating their time to, very few people are willing to subsume themselves to tedious organizational work without much obvious gain, which is ultimately the sort of thing that the left would require to be effective. (not to mention a combination of a strong willingness to compromise paired with the skill to recognize a compromise too far. absent this, you've got a recipe for constant splits from tedious purists and constant betrayals from insufferable opportunists.) secondly, there is a most detestable trait on the left, which is to assume ideal circumstances - now i'm not interested in the specifics here, but take the example of UBI: There's a tendency to shotgun in what they think would bring socialism faster, rather than what actual economic analysis would suggest. so you have the grotesque spectacle of leftists quoting the heritage foundation on how UBI would be ruinously expensive even at a pathetic level, then immediately cause hyperinflation. there's no attempt to run a serious economic analysis on it (no, throwing in the word "bourgeoisie" doesn't make your post "class analysis"), just the assumption that UBI would delay socialism, and therefore UBI has to fail. Even if UBI is bad this is still an abysmal approach to analysis. (The specifics of UBI don't matter, this tendency is applied to everything. Play Kaiserreich too much and want your Socialist Union of Britain? Then Scottish independence has to fail. Seriously analyze the situation and come to an independent conclusion? Nah, just post DailyMail articles from 2014 about how the EU says they can't join...) again, to emphasize, the problem there is not about the positions taken: it's about the assumptions made. In right wing terms, it's Hitler's assumption that all he had to do was kick the door of the USSR in and it would all come crumbling down. A serious analysis of situations is required. Making history is not the same thing as writing alternate history, so stop using handwaves that would be contrived even in an alternatehistory.com noob's post.
You need to at least get the basics, which is a lot more than most people study as it is. Sure you can't hold people to impossible standards but people do have to study something.
>>1006777 The Nazis weren't the pinnacle of human evilness like mainstream western society makes them out to be. Everyone always applies the whole "history is written by the victors" trope to every single historical conflict with the exception of World War II and the Cold War and most people just blindly accept this narrative. To question it automatically gets you labelled an apologist/denialist. Now I'm not saying that the Nazis weren't evil, they definitely were and I believe the Holocaust happened and the defeat of the Axis was undeniably a good thing for humanity but I do genuinely believe that the whole narrative of the "uniquely evil Nazis" is total bullshit. England, France, and America, among other nations, were just as evil (if not more evil in many instances) than the Nazis were: a cursory look at any of those countries' histories of imperial conquest & colonization shows this clear as day. Nothing the Nazis did was original, either. Rabid antisemitism was not uncommon in any of the allied nations, Social Darwinism & eugenics were the creation of Anglos not German fascists, Generalplan Ost and Lebensraum were directly inspired by the success of America's genocidal "Manifest Destiny" project, and Jim Crow was the inspiration for the Nuremberg Laws. I think the post-war west made and continues the make the Nazis out to be this ultimate historical evil because it: 1). makes them and their histories of brutal conquest and wholesale extermination less significant in comparison 2). the Nazis' victims were predominately white Europeans rather than nonwhite third worlders that conservative westerners can't sympathize with 3). it allows the "we defeated the nazis" card to be played to make the west out to be this paragon of morality, human dignity, and progressiveness 4). it serves the west's pro-Zionist agenda by making European Jews out to be eternal victims to guilt stupid people into supporting Israel as some kind of moral obligation 5). the Nazi caricature (and its dichotomy to the "free & inclusive" west) is weaponized against any leader/government who resists the west's hegemony (think Nasser, Saddam, the Soviets, Putin, Xi, or the Kims who were/are frequently compared to Hitler is mainstream media). Hitler may have been a murderous tyrant to the European peoples he conquered but to an Indian in the the British Raj, an Irishman in Ulster, a Berber in French Algiers, an Arab in Palestine, or a black man in America, he wasn't any worse than their own imperial masters. tl;dr I think Hitler and the Third Reich should be chalked down as just another entry in the laundry list of genocidal European Empires right alongside Great Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, or America rather than this unique supervillain-tier rogue state.
>>1008100 as an added note, liberals do the same "humans vs orcs" shit in regards to WW2 that /pol/yps do, just in reverse. No, the allies didn't declare war on Hitler because they wanted to bash the fash and restore democracy in Germany, they declared war because Germany stopped being a lapdog buffer between them and the Soviets and began to become an ambitious imperial power that challenged the post-WWI status quo represented by Britain, France, and America. For the west, it wasn't a war of survival against the blackest reaction, it was just another war against rival imperial powers just like the first World War.
Jannies are based, mods=gods.
>>1007954 >You need to at least get the basics, which is a lot more than most people study as it is. Sure you can't hold people to impossible standards but people do have to study something. https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1939/x01/index.htm
antifa is liberal and has quasi fascist tendancies (macho beating up poor people)
>>1006777 People can be communist without reading theory, but they can't be marxist. Marxism is a method, not an ideology or a movement.
>>1006844 >Left unity is impossible Not sure how it is unpopular. Lenin said the same thing.
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>>1006816 As someone who has been doing organization work for over 2 years now, you are on the money how to do actually good praxis. Now that is not to say you should not read Marx at ALL, but it is to say that reading is not enough in of itself. You need to be understand the theory itself, and that doesnt just mean read it several times. It means going outside and doing shit. There are too many new people who I like too call "theory nerds" who just go on and on about theory. Trying to make the conversation as little accessible as possible. Theory is useless if you can not relay and make it engaging for the lay man, and yes that is possible without making it revisionist and if I am honest about myself I was someone who also was a theory nerd myself and too some degree I still am. For example I now much more understand Lenin's theory of Democratic Centralism and why it is the best way too go, and how in my position and situation I can improve it and tweak it. An organization is not JUST theory or JUST practice. It is not seperated either, they are within an org symbiotic and fused to eachother.
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>>1006777 Socialist state doesn't have a definition similar to how a fascist state doesn't have a definition. There's only a family of resemblance between states we call "socialist". Therefore arguing whether x or y were socialist is a meaningless.
China is only communist by name. In reality its authoritarian capitalism. Its market almost has no restrictions what so ever and there is no concept of worker's rights
>>1008488 >Its market almost has no restrictions what so ever and there is no concept of worker's rights Blatantly false.
>>1008495 You said "Its market almost has no restrictions what so ever" which is wrong, as there exists restrictions on the market as do worker's rights. Yes, they are not even remotely enough but they exist.
1) It is possible to transition to lower-phase communism with modern technology without a transitional period (or at least without one that would last longer than the creation of infrastructure to accommodate lower-phase communism). Any state that claims otherwise is either incompetent or reactionary. An excuse can be made for countries like DPRK or Cuba, who suffer from great economic warfare, but not for China. 2) Higher-phase communism is a stupid utopian idea that people need to dump from their mind. "From each according to his ability, to each according to their need" is an unworkable idea, as it is physically impossible to have a post-scarcity society due to various natural and physical limitations. And Marx's idea about "muh fisherman - poet - philosopher" is also retarded. Division of labour is and will be a permanent staple of human civilization.
>>1008535 >as it is physically impossible to have a post-scarcity society due to various natural and physical limitations Such as?
>>1008542 Pollution limiting certain types of production as well as soft-cap on how much people the Earth can carry, meaning that there is also a soft-cap on how much labour a society can have. Productivity is still growing somewhat, but the tendency is clear - unless we discover some super groundbreaking new thing, it won't increase for that much longer.
>>1008552 But we already live in a post scarcity world, it's just a matter of distribution which is inherently limited in capitalist society.
Chapo Trap House is an unironically good podcast.
>>1008564 And TrueAnon is an unironically bad podcast with shit takes. Brace should do standup though, could be the next Bill Hicks.
>>1008564 It is actually good in terms of podcast quality all around, even compared to podcasts in other genres of discussion it's still pretty good. It's popular for a reason. That said, they never delve deep into theory or anything like that, so it's limited in its scope (as the podcast hosts readily admit -- they basically say it's a politically flavored """comedy""" podcast). However I think lots of people hate it because the fanbase and/or because they disagree with the politics.
Capitalism will remain for centuries, socialism wont happen in our lifetime or the next but we should still put resistance and pressure to prevent the damages it causes. (Climate change, increasing precariousness of workers)
>>1007540 >This, the fact of the matyter is that leftypol is so scared of anything it deems "idpol" that most people here fail to recognize the extreme intersection between the fight against capitalism and the fight for gay rights, racial equality, etc. For fucks sake, the Black Panthers carried around copies of the Little Red Book, what more do you people want? There is very little intersection between the idpol causes and class struggle. Historically they have been and still are interlinked because of simple statistics, oppressed people because of identity end up being proletarians, however there is nothing inherently "cisgendered" or "patriarchal" or "white supremacist" about capitalism. Just look at the newest iteration of neolibs like Destiny. They are extremely woke on identitarian issues but they also think workers movements should be mowed down. Capitalism has expanded its identitarian inclusivity constantly, there's nothing stopping it from becoming 100% equal. You are like those 60s rebels who thought the best way to defeat Capitalism was to be promiscuous and spiritual, well guess what Capitalism integrated those things easily, and turned them into weapons.
1)The kim dynasty ,especially the first Kim was clearly an opportunist peice of shit who almost destroy korea even more than the war , i do like the current Kim 2)Non organized religions are fine 3)Its ok to consider right wing proles and luben bad and dumb 4)MLs talk to much about asceticism despite Stalin saying socialism is a regime of plenty
>>1008584 Actually, came to post the opposite because there's a lot of people new to the left like you that believe this sort of thing. We're in a significantly better position than we were even 10 years ago. Our numbers and ideological discipline have grown, and the people who are saying that we're dead in the dirt because we didn't win blatantly rigged bougie elections are so short sighted, they legally shouldn't be allowed to operate machinery. The failure of the social democrats in the 2010s still managed to push the desires of most people much further than what capitalism can deliver (especially as the rate of profit continues to drop like a rock). Also, anarchists, while I don't subscribe to their ideology, are beneficial to the overall left and if an actual marxist movement in the west starts to get momentum, almost all would fall in line. Also this board will probably never hit old leftypol numbers and it's incredibly frustrating because this is a great platform for radicalizing Bernie babies and other newer leftists. Worked for me in 2016.
>>1008613 Why don't you think this board will hit old /leftypol/ numbers?
>>1008617 Just not being a part of a larger more popular website. Even Chapo chat is not even at 10k when they had 150k+ on reddit.
>>1006844 patriotism and by extension nationalism are dangerous tools to play with since you are not necessarily uniting the working class behind working class interests. as a result, they can be easily cast aside in favor of serving nationalist interests.
>>1008617 It sucks to use, there's a thousand little problems with the board and every other weekend /pol/uighurs shit up the place. I don't even like using imageboards and only still come here because despite all of our issues, it's still the best leftist website on the internet. But honestly I just expect the owner to get bored and shut the place down before we hit that old number. Whatever replaces this dump will, though . At least it won't be chapo.chat. Fucking hell, you can migrate to whatever you want and you choose a reddit knockoff? >>1008620 It doesn't help that they seem to have pants on head retarded leadership. None of our shtiflinging has done anywhere close to the self inflicted damage their struggle sessions manage to pull off. Like the pronoun shit, absolutely birdbrained, and I say this as someone who's nonbinary.
>>1007540 >the extreme intersection between the fight against capitalism and the fight for gay rights, racial equality, etc.
>>1008640 the equivalent of posting the fact you can buy the collected works of marx and engels on amazon (for just £14.50 no less!) as proof that communism is actually being pushed by the people running the world.
>>1008488 >This <Unpopular Don't forget to stay logged to accrue Karma
>>1008595 Hm interesting. I like the current Kim also, but I don't see you problem with Kim Il Sung. He came from a revolutionary Family and was a Revolutionary most of his life till he came to power. Why do you say, he was opportunistic?
>>1008646 yeah bro its totally the same, amazon sends a delegation to the Labour Day parades every year nowadays, with hammer and sickle banners and everything!
>>1008640 >/pol/ack tier ebin maymays oh no, capitalism undermines everything under capitalism, what a shocker, i guess gay people don't deserve any attention by socialists because the capitalists are misleading that group, better roll over and let them have these people, because the group itself apparently is inherently capitalist now for whatever fucking reason or you should just go fucking end yourself with a chainsaw to run into you /pol/ack fucking retard
>>1008640 The center chart reflects dogmatic idealism, that the ideal is the social mores of the Stalin-era USSR and that's what socialism is, frozen in time forever. People who make charts like that, whether they're part of an obscure left-wing cult or far-right cult, make them because they're divorced from the masses. There's actually a fun term that has fallen out of fashion for this, "dogmato-revisionism," in which one is so dogmatic they become revisionist through sheer dogmatism. Mao warned against this kind of dogmatism as a paralyzing force that freezes revolutionary activity in place and prevents motion.
>>1008667 >nooooooo my particular hobby horse identarian struggle has to be integral to socialism it can't just be incidental to our cultural-historical moment ok
1) Revisionism is just a cop out for not addressing the faults within Marxist Leninism especially during the Stalin and later Khrushchev administration that created the material conditions for such a return to capitalism to return within the degenerated worker’s state. 2) All e-celebs are shit and deserves to be ignored if they refuse to read theory. End of story. You can’t form any Marxist analyses without understanding dialectical materialism. This somewhat even includes Cockshott with his autistic rejection of dialectics. 3) Most of the western left need to use patriotism more as a rallying cry. The far right only use it for aesthetics to sell their own people to porkies and they know it. We need to further expose this. 4) Maoism is a far right deviation of Marxist Leninism. Appealing to the feudalistic peasants doesn’t make you more far left and the narodniks is proof of that. Further more, most of his strategy failed even in China like struggle sessions which is primed for opportunism or mass line which is just masking clearly reactionaries in left buzzwords.
the left needs to drop the liberal environmental hysteria
There is literally nothing wrong with supporting stuff like Gay rights, trans rights and other stuff like that, that some would consider "IdPol", and that to oppose them because "Muh idpol" is fucking retarded
>>1008754 This is true but in reality it ends up becoming the only thing that the left does because it's easier and fits into status quo norms more so than class struggle.
>>1008679 now apply this to your race-spooks
>>1008754 There is nothing wrong with not supporting those either. Actually, it is better as a working class to not give a fuck about idpol stuff, you won't get anything out of it.
>>1008692 >wettest part of US east of Mississippi getting 50-80% less fucking precipitation than usual, causing severe drought and ruining the entire agricultural harvest, is totally fine oink oink
>>1007944 >t. succdem
>>1008754 This is the default take on idpol here. Support these fights but understand that they are connected to a broader class struggle.
>>1007377 how does any of this history have any relivency to the modern day
>>1006777 Their is ZERO VALUE in talking about historical oppression or contradictions id you can't explain how those oppression or contradictions are present in the modern day or how they resulted in phenomena that exist today. For Christ sakes recognize the world as it exists today, not as it used to exist.
>>1008664 They primarily rely on production in and trade with China, a supposedly socialist state. This is more egregious than any bougie pride parade could ever hope to be.
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>>1006777 Illiteracy Gang
>>1006777 MLs have a dogshit understanding of Marxism. Many of them treat of people like Stalin, the Kim family or Mao as prophets and use the limpdicked 'critical support' excuse to make it seem like they don't. Religion and communism are not compatible.
>>1008658 https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/114133 Good document to undertand the political sitution in post war dprk
>>1008160 >poor people
Hitler has some good ideas, like killing Hitler.
>>1008692 lmao come the fuck on dude, it is overwhelmingly obvious that the environment is going to shit. left should be more open to shit like nuclear but its not hysteria.
Oh, I forgot one. I always say it in these threads: Iran US war is good and should be encouraged to happen. It will end up being the Japanese-Russian war, floating 9/11's edition.
>>1008789 imagine letting a 20x16 picture of a flower occupy your head without it even paying rent
>>1009212 Okay, pay rent now.
Electoralism is a worthwhile goal to aspire to
>>1009227 don't make me call in the tenants union
Their is no place more socially isolating of more depressing then a college campus.
Here’s a few opinions that are probably “unpopular” with most users here. 1) The “New Cold War” between the U$ and China/Russia is fake wrestling meant to fool their proles into embracing jingoistic nationalism against imaginary foreign enemies while their domestic bourgeoise continue to exploit them. In reality the U$, Russia, and China are all Imperialist (yes the U$ is the dominant Imperialist hegemon, but according to Lenin’s definition China and Russia are Imperialist as well due to their activities in other countries that include, FDI investment, exploitation of natural resources, and, in the case of Russia, military interventions to further their financial interests) Capitalist, and borderline Fascist countries that are ruled by Globalized elites that the same common material interest yet must hide this from their proles through fake conflict and aesthetics (this explains why China larps as “Muh Socialism with Chinese characteristics”, the U$ larps as a “Muh Freedumb and Democracy”, and Russia larps as “Muh Orthodox Russian Empire”). 2) The “Covid-19” pandemic is not as deadly as portrayed by the MSM, and will definitely not lead to the Fall of Capitalism as many Naive Leftists seem to believe. In reality it has a relatively low IFR of .2-.6% (roughly equivalent to the 1957 and 1968 Asian Flu pandemics, not the infamous 1918-1920 Spanish Flu pandemic which had an IFR of 3-5%) and should have been responded to by a Swedish style strategy of no lockdowns, masks, and rushed vaccines for those who aren’t in danger (the young and healthy), with targeted protection for those who are more vulnerable (the very old and/or very sick). The reason for the overreaction and exaggeration of this pandemic has been so the Global Capitalist elite can accelerate the 4th industrial revolution of AI, Automation, and E-commerce to eliminate the Working Class (once they all lose their jobs they will fall into extreme degeneracy and eventually die out due to low birth rates, Drug overdoses, poor health, mass incarceration, and potentially sterilization) and pave the way for a Dystopian society where the Global Capitalist elites have the world for themselves and seek to achieve immortality through Transhumanism. 3) Climate change will not destroy Capitalism. Like “Covid-19”, Climate change is real but is exaggerated by the Global Capitalist elite for an ulterior motive. Evidence for Climate change being exaggerated is that contrary to grifters like Greta Thornberg, even the most pessimistic scientist say it will take 1000 years for all the icecaps to melt, which ignores the coming population crash this century due to the 4th industrial revolution leading to significantly reduced emissions. I suspect the reason for the Climate hysteria is to promote “Renewable” energy companies, Electric vehicles, along with accelerating the 4th industrial Revolution (“Smart” cities are an example of this overlap) and the added benefit of distracting gullible leftists with a phony cause. 4) Their is way to much Technophilia among Communists, as seen by the Neoliberal bourgeoisie idea of “Luxury Gay Space Communism” being so popular among so-called Marxist-Leninists. I’m not a full-blown Luddite, but vehemently disagree with the idea that Full Communism must be some dystopian, Sci-fy, Startrek-style, fully-automated, society, when in reality Full Communism can be achieved with the technology of 30 years ago once all Capitalist threats and Bourgeoise cultural tendencies would be eliminated, and it would be safe enough to dissolve the State and eliminate money. According to Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc. Communism is the same as Socialism but Stateless and Moneyless, due to the elimination of all Bourgeoisie threats/tendencies and thus Classless. They said nothing of a fully automated society where nobody works and everyone becomes Lazy Fat-asses and/or Drug and/or Video game addicts. 5) History is dead. Since 1991, Capitalism has become universal and unchallenged throughout the entire world besides Cuba and the DPRK (and eventuality even these two countries will probably succumb to It through regime change or revisionism), with all so-called “geopolitical” conflicts fake as explained in 1), and the two biggest “events” Leftists believe will weaken/collapse Capitalism are really strengthening it as I explained in 2) and 3). With this in consideration, it’s obvious that If their is no real global cataclysmic event (ie. a accidental Nuclear War) in the next few decades, their Will never be a “Revolution” and the proles will just roll over to be eliminated by the 4th industrial revolution and the international bourgeoisie will enjoy their final victory in the Class war by trying to seek immortality by embracing Transhumanism and eliminating humanity itself.
>>1007944 I'm not so sure if this opinion is so much as unpopular as merely unstated, but generally accepted as true. Good post nevertheless.
>>1009347 if the fourth industrial revolution suceeds why would their be mass killings of the prolitariet?
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You zoroastrist uyghers think of Marxism as a geopolitical game instead of a critique of labor in capitalism, and I hate you for that. You are bound to fail over and over again by joining irrelevant pseudo-vanguardist sectarian parties and LARPing as a member of the Politburo instead of reading Postone, getting rid of your spooks regarding labor and thinking about how could a society where the surplus isn't mainly produced by proles and direct human labor could emerge from the current material conditions. Replacing private property with state property and markets with a central planning system won't do jack shit in the long run if labor takes the same form as in capitalism in your pseudo-socialist state. Even Stalin recognized this, but you nu-tankoids don't even read Economic Problems of the USSR, so you think socialism is all about edgy aesthetics and bootlicking with red aesthetics. https://theleftwind.wordpress.com/2018/12/08/the-tyranny-of-time-moishe-postones-immanent-critique/ >>1009347 >They said nothing of a fully automated society where nobody works and everyone becomes Lazy Fat-asses and/or Drug and/or Video game addicts. Typically what I'm talking about. You are unable to dissociate work from wage-slavery, and you think socialism is when everyone is good wagecuck. Pathetic. Marx characterized communism as a society where "surplus labour of the mass has ceased to be the condition for the development of general wealth, just as the non-labour of the few, for the development of the general powers of the human head". Read the Fragment on Machines and get rid of your silly workerist ideology.
>>1009347 >everyone becomes Lazy Fat-asses and/or Drug and/or Video game addicts I'm tired of working, unironicaly I just want to just do drugs with friends for the rest of my life
>>1007944 Ungodly based, and from a bong SucDem no less. >>1008100 >>1008131 Good posts, but I somewhat disagree. While I would agree that the mainn reason Nazis are seen so uniquely evil is that they did their evil shit against white yuropoors rather than Indians or Africans, I do think there are some charasteristics that make them uniqely dangerous. I think their application of racial mysticism coupled with understanding of geopolitics (ie. why have some tribes/nations conquered and ruled in history, what has been the driving forces etc.) is so stupid and ass-backwards that once in power, these people will produce results more violent and detructive than literally any alternative. Not only do they have this "humans vs. orcs" level of thinking about ethnic and ideological politics, their geopolitical understanding of the world is that of a 15 year old who has played too much Total War. "Choose a color on the map, then paint everything that color". The whole history of the first German unification, for example, is so messy and complex that to this day most nazis you try to talk about it are completely at a loss in trying to explain any of it. If they actually have studied the history in any serious sense (extremely rare) their explanations for Bismarck's actions regress to esoteric mysticism, and they turn red with rage if you try to get them to explain why the Jews were such staunch proponents of German nationalism. But I agree that liberal anti-Nazism is largely hypocritical. If you look at how the Unions functioned in the Reich, this is actually very close to how some neutered business unions in liberal countries now function.
>>1009347 >4) Their is way to much Technophilia among Communists, as seen by the Neoliberal bourgeoisie idea of “Luxury Gay Space Communism” being so popular among so-called Marxist-Leninists. I’m not a full-blown Luddite, but vehemently disagree with the idea that Full Communism must be some dystopian, Sci-fy, Startrek-style, fully-automated, society, when in reality Full Communism can be achieved with the technology of 30 years ago once all Capitalist threats and Bourgeoise cultural tendencies would be eliminated, and it would be safe enough to dissolve the State and eliminate money. According to Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc. Communism is the same as Socialism but Stateless and Moneyless, due to the elimination of all Bourgeoisie threats/tendencies and thus Classless. They said nothing of a fully automated society where nobody works and everyone becomes Lazy Fat-asses and/or Drug and/or Video game addicts. I don't quite understand this critique, as it seems to be insisting that a future society somehow magically compel everyone in it to behave to a certain standard. I mean in the FALGSC bullshit utopia or whatever there will probably be plenty of idleness and nonsense just as there is in late stage capitalism, but I don't see how it could be any other way? Is society somehow meaningfully improved by compelling people to dig ditches when a machine could do it better and faster? There is going to be a mixture of those who work to better themselves and challenge themselves in meaningful ways and those who are primarily lazy layabouts, and more likely than not, most people will engage in both throughout the course of their lives. The hope is that in this society people will be forced to reckon with the banality of endless hedonism -- new cultural forms will arise that we can't begin to comprehend yet, that encourage a new type of person. But what those forms will be is not really up to us to determine -- it's up to our children or our children's children.
>>1009373 For the same reason that there was a mass killing of proles during the original industrial revolution. See: the Poor Laws
>>1009404 >Is society somehow meaningfully improved by compelling people to dig ditches when a machine could do it better and faster? yeah, when you busssywork you do the better you become, the more bussywork you do the better you are
>>1009347 Even if socialist movements fail, there is no happy ending for the capitalists either, it would just end in the common ruin of all the classes. >>1009377 >The Nazis weren't the pinnacle of human evilness, Third Reich should be chalked down as just another entry in the laundry list of genocidal Empires Technically your comparative analysis ignores material conditions. Plucking historic events or societies out of time and space, to compare them like factions in a Fantasy role playing game, It is bad theory. What is maybe worse is that you are kinda rehabilitating the Nazis. If you wanted to equivocate the atrocities of these other empires in the name of vilifying them more, maybe you could be forgiven for butchering historic contextualization. What the Nazis did in WW2 was truly horrendous, normalizing this is bordering proto fascist behavior.
I wish the West would at least make war--I mean regime change--look cool again, if it won't contain its bloodlust. Not claiming any type of superiority for this, I just want kino back on the menu.
One thing that society needs is a "resocialization program" where lonly people and shut-ins will have to spend time and socialize with other people. The strength of human connections today is much weaker then what they used to be and this is a serious problem.
>>1011084 Politics is inherently hypocritical. For example, if a pro-western regime is toppled, the west will call it a "coup", but if a socialist regime is toppled, the west will call it regime change - and vice-versa for the socialists, who will call the collapse of western regimes "regime change" and the collapse of socialist governments a "coup". This doesn't mean we shouldn't be hypocritical, on the contrary - hypocrisy is the only way to win. However, politics on its own is cancerous and must be destroyed. That's why we analyze things from the lens of sharing power and wealth, class warfare. That's why idealists fail to understand what's fundamentally wrong with politics, because they only understand things through the lens of inherent competition, rather than through the lens of power-seeking and power-solidifying behavior.
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terrorism good jannies bahd
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judaism bahd andtisemitism only slightly worse anarchists are idealists but they are still right on their idealism as a philosophy cops are not necessary in socialism inteligence apparatus is tho every communist state has benn wrong about gun rights saying cuckime is actually p funne
>>1011341 wtf i hate jannies now
>>1011385 >Well over half of young men are now incels and the left shits on them more than anybody else Source for that? >Adherence to feminist age of consent laws Ain't nothing "feminist" about that retard, just don't fuck kids and horny gullible teens.
This board is poisonous to real socialism.
>>1011385 Libertarian, I presume?
>>1011461 obviously, this board is completely irrelevant in the real world.
Our impact in greater chan culture is underestimated and for a lot of anons it's a breath of fresh air and leftism is slowly growing more popular on 4chan. Megacorps are based and good for Socialism because they cause friction between the small and large businessmen eliminating the small business problem (far too many people invested in Capital). They can also be quickly decapitated and integrated in to the Socialist economy. AntiFa needs to be reclaimed, the le AntiFa are revisionist soys or liberals or whatever is basically a bunch of Ben Shapiro compilations cherrypicking the most retarded possible members, and denouncing them is basically rent-free Rightism in your head. WW3 won't start until anti-nuke missiles reach 99% protection
>>1011504 >WW3 won't start until anti-nuke missiles reach 99% protection So never, anti-missiles-missiles are a meme. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-faulty-and-dangerous-logic-of-missile-defense/ >The problems are well documented. Only about half of the 18 intercept tests since 1999 successfully destroyed their targets, and the test record has not improved with time: only two of the last five tests were successful—and GMD has still has not been tested under operationally realistic conditions. Thus, there is no evidence that the $40 billion GMD system provides a reliable defense, even against a country like North Korea.More fundamentally, even if the reliability is improved, GMD’s prospects for providing an effective defense in the future are poor because it will face countermeasures that any country that has developed a long-range missile and a nuclear warhead could readily use to confuse or overwhelm the system. ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣤⣤⡤⡀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⣶⣶⣶⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢧ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣀⠀⣽⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢞⣺⣿⣦⣶⣶⣦⡀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣯⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⠁ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣦⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣶⣦⡀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⣶⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣛⠻⠊⣻⣿⣿⣿⣯⢿⣿⣿⣿⢻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡎ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⣻⣿⣿⢿⣿⢣⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⡘⣛⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠿⣿⣟⡥⡀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣿⢯⣿⣯⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⡿⣿⡇⡸⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⣿⣷⢋⣸⣿⣷⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⢻⢿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠁⢡⣿⣿⡅⡿⠁ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢛⣿⡏⣾⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣼⣾⡿⣟⣥⣄⣤⣬⣽⣿⡏⢸⣶⡄ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣧⣿⢽⣿⣟⣿⡿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⡸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡝⠁⢸⣿⡇ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣼⣿⣿⡻⠇⠉⠁⠀⠉⠙⠿⠿⠗⠀⠈⠉⠉⠙⠛⠁⠿⣟⠟⠻⣟⠏⣼⣛⠋⠀⠀⢻⢾⠗ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠨⣿⣿⣿⣧⣤⡀⠀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣄⠀⠟⠃⠀⢠⣼⡻ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⢗⢅⣉⡉⣭⣾⠿⠀⢠⢀⣠⣿⣿⣷⡀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣀⢸⣿⣿⣵⣶⡴⠟ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠉⠁⠈⠻⠿⠿⠛⢿⡇⣿⣶⣾⡇⣶⠿⣶⣿⣷⠏⠛⠓⠁ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢟⣿⢿⣅ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣀⣘⣋⣥⣭⣤⣀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣤⡾⠟⠿⠿⠟⢛⡛⡓⠩⠉⣽⡽⣿⢿⣶⣶⣤⡀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣋⡄⠉⠉⠁⠀⢠⢀⢀⣀⣤⣰⣄⠀⠀⢀⣍⣬⡷ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠻⠿⠿⠵⠀⠀⢀⣿⣿⣷⡀⠻⠿⠀⠀⠈⠉⠋ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡿⣿⣿⣿⢱⣶⣾⣿⡃ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣴⣶⣦⣿⣿⡇⣾⣿⣿⣿⡍ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⣤⣤⣀⠀⠙⠝⣛⣭⣝⠛⠚⠻⢟⣿⠃⢠⣴⣶⡄ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⣿⣶⣄⡴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣷⣤⣸⣿⣟⠋⣴⣿⣗⣠⠁⠀⣻⣿⣯⣄⣛⠃⣠⣴⣶⣤⡄ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣻⢹⣿⣿⣿⠙⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠉⣿⣿⡿⢿⣲⣾⣿⣿⣿⣾⣿⣾⡿⣯⣿⣿⠘⢿⣿⣿⣿⣷
>>1011514 >Teenagers are adults in every way Science says brain maturation takes until age 25. Objectively speaking that is when adulthood begins.
>>1011514 >Nobody actually believes this bullshit. You think some fat balding incel midget is going to walk up to a teen girl and waggle his hand at her like he's Obi-Wan Kenobi and convince her to fuck? No, more like an attractive predator will work on some horny kid as it usually happens. >Teenagers are adults in every way and I'm tired of pretending they're not. No they are not fucking creep, even their bodies are not fully matured. Most teenagers are naive and retarded, got 0 idea on how the world works.
>>1011587 >I'm out of here now. And don't come back.
>>1011577 >Fucking creep I dunno, you're the one talking about horny kids you fucking weirdo
>>1011596 You know kids have libido, right?
>>1011599 Wow gross, quit talking about how much you wanna touch kids faggot
>>1011601 >Wow gross, quit talking about how much you wanna touch kids faggot Nice projection lolbert.
>>1011582 >science denial https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/people of college/articles/people of college2892678/ <Longitudinal neuroimaging studies demonstrate that the adolescent brain continues to mature well into the 20s. This has prompted intense interest in linking neuromaturation to maturity of judgment. <Neural connections that survive the pruning process become more adept at transmitting information through myelination. Myelin, a sheath of fatty cell material wrapped around neuronal axons, acts as “insulation” for neural connections. This allows nerve impulses to travel throughout the brain more quickly and efficiently and facilitates increased integration of brain activity [17]. Although myelin cannot be measured directly, it is inferred from volumes of cerebral white matter [18]. Evidence suggests that, in the prefrontal cortex, this does not occur until the early 20s or later [15,16]. <The prefrontal cortex coordinates higher-order cognitive processes and executive functioning. Executive functions are a set of supervisory cognitive skills needed for goal-directed behavior, including planning, response inhibition, working memory, and attention [19]. These skills allow an individual to pause long enough to take stock of a situation, assess his or her options, plan a course of action, and execute it. Poor executive functioning leads to difficulty with planning, attention, using feedback, and mental inflexibility [19], all of which could undermine judgment and decision making. <Synaptic overproduction, pruning and myelination—the basic steps of neuromaturation—improve the brain’s ability to transfer information between different regions efficiently. This information integration undergirds the development of skills such as impulse control [20]. Although young children can demonstrate impulse control skills, with age and neuro-maturation (e.g., pruning and myelination), comes the ability to consistently use these skills [21].
>>1011635 word filter fucked up the link
>>1006777 More unpopular right here than in general. But I think west European countries should try to fight way more the rise of Islamic fascism within their borders.
>>1011635 Does that mean retards should not have sex?
>>1011654 >Does that mean retards should not have sex? I means that biological adulthood begins somewhere around 25 years of age.
>>1011671 You seem to define that by executive function. But some people have worse EF at 25 than others do at 15, namely retards like the autistic.
>>1011684 >You seem to define that by executive function. No adulthood is considered to begin when neurological changes, for brain development and maturation, are completed. >But some people have worse EF at 25 than others do at 15, namely retards like the autistic. No we are comparing the brain with it self during different stages of development, cause that is the relevant criteria for maturation. We are not comparing different brains. This is a comparison made on a time axis, not between different people.
>>1011696 >I literally cited a fucking academic study. No you did not, you just named some scientist, link to the study or upload a pdf. >myelination is a shitty metric of maturity So you are just ignoring inconvenient evidence ? >Even if the bullshit 25 claim was true, sex is extremely simple to understand and doesn't require full mental development. Completely irrelevant to the question about when to consider a person to be an adult. You can teach a 14 year old how to use an assault rifle and make child soldiers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzsggsf6-iE but it does not mean you should. >Ernst et al. is a study measuring all the planning skills you just described and it turned up no statistically significant differences between 14-year-olds and any older adult. That sounds like correlative evidence only.
State capitalism isn't socialism.
>>1011786 Distinction without a difference imo
>>1011786 >State capitalism isn't socialism. it can be the boot-loader for socialism
>>1008754 there is nothing wrong with supporting it but it has little or nothing to do with socialism and class struggle as such and I wish people would stop insisting that it does
>>1008954 >a supposedly socialist state you make arguments that you obviously don't even believe in why do you even bother uighur. just take the L
I don't agree with the "right of nations to self-determination". If a nation opposes socialism, it should be crushed.
>>1009404 >Is society somehow meaningfully improved by compelling people to dig ditches when a machine could do it better and faster? If we assume that the need and will to work and produce is part of our species-being, you can make that argument. It's a human nature argument, but iirc it's one that Marx made to justify why alienated labour r bad. We need meaningful work to be fulfilled, not just hobby work. If all that I can really contribute to society is simple things like dig ditches, because I am not a great artist or thinker etc., then the automation of all work will make me feel useless. Player Piano was all about that, people eventually smash the machines just so they can feel useful putting them back together again.
>>1011875 If work is species being, then we will divert technical advances towards ability amplification of individual humans.
I don't give a fuck about "species being", I don't want to work.
>>1012017 There is not one thing you want to do? Not a single thing which you desire to accomplish?
sociological problems won't always go away just by throwing more money at them
>>1012129 You'd have a point of ecological management had a meaningful amount of funding.
Chairman Gonzalo would have phone-banked for Biden.
>>1011461 best take here
>>1011461 Explain
>>1012100 Is playing vidya work?
>>1006816 >Here's my unpopular opinion: Hegel is fucking awesome, and critical to advancing marxist thought this Dialectical materialism is often misconstrued based on faulty readings of Hegel. This is especially bad with revisionists like Kautsky, but even generally good dialecticians sometimes don't formulate the method as well as they could. This bit from the Encyclopaedia of Philosophical Sciences is excellent for doing away with the Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis formula which is shit and implies some kind of psuedo-darwinian model for the development of beings which is a backdoor for the worst kinds of liberal idealism.
>>1012154 >would <he thinks he doesn't as we speak
>>1008554 >But we already live in a post scarcity world, it's just a matter of distribution which is inherently limited in capitalist society. Ok, but where are the actual arguments? All I hear from you fags is that WEW SCIENCE will magically solve every resource constraint, it will solve peak oil, climate change, pollution, limited arable land, limited non-renewables that our fucking civilization always depended on etc etc. Wishful thinking is I ever saw one.
>>1006777 >Unpopular Opinions Left Unity is possible and we are united through the ideology of Doomerism/Socialist Nihilism.
>>1012295 >All I hear from you fags is that WEW SCIENCE will magically solve every resource constraint, it will solve peak oil, climate change, pollution, limited arable land, limited non-renewables that our fucking civilization always depended on etc etc. All of these problems are solvable, but if you want to solved them while capitalists also have to make a profit, you are trying to solve this with your hands tied to your back while making a headstand and balancing a table tennis ball on a spoon you hold with your teeth. >>1012298 I don't see the reason for doomerism. It is just psychological self sabotage.
>>1008825 >This is the default take on idpol here. Support these fights but understand that they are connected to a broader class struggle. More like go bother someone else with your gay idpol shit, marxism is about class.
Voting in bourgeois elections is completely futile, yes that includes 'democratic socialists' (soc dems in disguise). There is no such thing as AES. Left unity is fucking retarded.
We would need a state dating and coop hookers program in socialism to cope with the sexual power disbalance and gender disbalance in general
Well, more of a divise opinion, but here it is: Accusing every major happening that is followed by libs of being "le malthusian plot", and thinking that they're bougie plots is getting out of hand, and reaches Jordan Peterson "THE CULTURAL MARXIST ARE EVERYWHERE" levels of schizophrenia. Lets take climate change for example. The accusation made here does in any way or form match the actual actions perpertuated by governments, on one hand you have rightwingers denounce it like they always do, and on the other neolibs swearing up and down that they are doing something... only to do either jack OR packing out the hammer they've using for years, austerity Austerity AUSTERITY. Yes, bougies ARE saddling the cost of said change to the public, but a) they always done this with everything and b) they don't even follow the theories that would allow them to justify the amount of """eugenics""" these schizophrenic accuse them. Accusation and action simply don't match. And they often forget that, yes, they have a form of class conciousness that causes the international bourg to act on some level of cooperation, but accusing US, EU, Russia and China of intentionally staging their conflicts is on the same level as claiming that WW2 was just an illusion and the holocaust was just for show put up by the Axis, Allies and USSR. Jesus H. fucking Christ, some of you sound like /pol/acks, just worshiping different sugar daddies.
>>1006777 I read only the manifesto, and a lot of wikipedia. I'm a ML and defend the USSR. I also watched a bunch of youtube.
>>1008754 Only crypto conservatives use anti-idpol to say these things are bad. The problem with idpol is not about whether we should be tolerant and egalitarian. The problem is that these topics get used to derail discussion, activities, etc by redirecting people's attention to something contentious.
Criticism of countries opposed to/targeted by imperialism does not in and of itself further imperialist goals.
A fair class system whould be better than a classless society But since there is no way yet to develop a fair socialist class system communism is the second best choice 2)the death penalty is good especially on crimes were the evidence are clear Weird and poetic ways of executions should return 3) it's OK to have large multicultural states, national self determination isn't important if their is no oppression 4)voting is a useless act but really has no negatives 5)left unity can happen but most leftist luck political skill to guide such effort
>>1012727 Is this post satire?
>>1012727 You are not welcome here succdem
>>1012100 You can only figured that shit when you actually don’t work. Boredom is the mother of all creativity.
>>1012780(me) And self-actualization.
>>1012727 there is no such thing as a fair class system tbh
>>1012727 >A fair class system Like a really tall dwarf drinking dry water on sunny night.
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The Latin American "progressive" left, with Cuba being the sole exception, has extremely backwards views on abortion due to an alien religion called Catholicism that was forcibly brought by colonialists (whose countries now have fully legal abortion). https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-24499248 >Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa has said he will resign if the National Assembly decriminalises abortion as part of a reform of the Penal Code. >"They can do whatever they want. I will never approve the decriminalisation of abortion," he said. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/sep/18/clashes-erupt-after-ecuador-fails-to-decriminalize-abortion-for-victims >Clashes erupt after Ecuador fails to decriminalize abortion for rape victims >Pro-choice activists say that the decision to reject the bill amounts to a death sentence for those who will continue to be forced to seek backstreet abortions, which resulted in 15.6% of maternal deaths in 2014, according to a 2017 report from the country’s health ministry. >Relaxing Ecuador’s strict abortion laws has long been faced down by political opposition. A similar reform was rejected in 2013, after the then president, Rafael Correa, threatened to resign should it pass. >Abortion is illegal in much of Latin America, though many countries – including Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico and Panama – make exceptions in cases of rape. It is completely banned in Honduras, Nicaragua and El Salvador.
>>1006777 the revolution will not occur within our lifetimes, not even for zoomers
>>1038645 >to an alien religion it's been their for over 500 years
No work, no eat.
>>1008640 Fact that capitalism is an all-consuming force that tries to encompass even the anticapitalist struggle doesn't make that struggle less necessary or just. And the fact that you can cherrypick some celebs alienated from the reality and the struggle of most people that openly embrace capital's encroachment on struggles that are irrevokably anticapitalist (including lgbt rights and racial equality) really proves nothing beyond how much of neoliberalism really is just porky just dabbing on us after having completely won the war these last few decades. We should repudiate McDiversity and fight for real socialistic acceptance of the other while we still can extricate the former from the latter. This is not accomplished by some autistic fixation on cringe posted by cynical lib politicians and puerile celebs like ms. watson
>>1038867 how is lgbt anticapitalist?
>>1038796 Maybe this is unpopular but it shouldn't be. We should be better than only thinks are worth it if we can see the fruits of our labour come to fruition. Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in
>>1008579 trueanon has to be taken with a grain of salt, as does all conspiracy media
>>1038880 (me) i do think the womanhating bits have gotten old tho
>>1038873 LGBT is anticapitalist cause the world is not just the (((first-world))). Let us not forget that while the social consequences of capitalism in the developed nations have ameliorated and in some cases lifted the burden of injustice from the shoulders of lgbt peeps in half if not more of the world being lgbt is a death sentence (not to mention the countries where if it's not a death sentence per se but it's realistic to expect a level of stigma that's definitely damaging to ppl's lives, Slavic countries, some southern European countries, parts of burgerland, japan and south Korea). These discriminations are a reimagining or a paint of coat put onto to class struggle. If people didnt live alienated from their labor, from the society they live in, from themselves and their sense of humanity they wouldn't do these things, it wouldn't occur to them to do it. Capitalism makes us live in a world of envy, frustration, injustice, discontent, and dehumanization. Maybe the day will come when even under capitalism porky will find a way to alter this state of affairs and make discrimination due to sexual orientation or race non-existent, but until that day it is an anticapitalist struggle.
>>1006777 actual revolutionary activity will never be truelly class concius and thats why it can succed Some times it will hide behind anti imperialism, other behind proggress , some times even behind new and weird religious sects
my opinions: >max blumenthal and co are grifters >russia and china might not be as bad as america, but they're sure as hell fucking trying to be >racism and sexism are intertwined with capitalism >proles are "woker" than you think >the alphabet agencies are everywhere but they're nowhere near as competent or powerful as people make them out to be >9/11 trutherism is retarded and probably funded by the saudis >there was probably russian interference in the 2016 election but it literally doesn't fucking matter because everyone interferes and spies on everyone else anyway >going back to my last point the lib obsession with "national security" and "american interests" is retarded. the american government has never been meant to protect or work for the people >there's no need to do "outreach" to different groups in society, if we organize irl and do direct action people will join in and bring their own ideas into the mix (i.e. that christian socialism faggotry)
>>1038909 Based. Adding to this, the world is made for heteros. Even in the first world in the most progressive of places, you are still othered by society.
>>1038950 hey basic logic is that you?
>>1038909 >If people didnt live alienated from their labor, from the society they live in, from themselves and their sense of humanity they wouldn't do these things, it wouldn't occur to them to do it. Because people were oh so tolerant of lgbt in feudalism.
>>1038965 People were alienated also during feudalism just through very different means
>>1006902 How are you suggesting people live then?
>>1009347 >2) We need communism so badly
Socialism is very close to being fucked all the time. There is nothing stopping a Marxist-Leninist State from degenerating into revisionism, and once it has, state powers will then fight to preserve the revisionist policy. Also, existing in a world dominated by capital and neoliberalism stacks the deck against leftist movements from the start, and I won’t be surprised if China doesn’t become “socialist” until well after 2050, if it doesn’t abandon it. If and when capital collapses completely and irreversibly, the anarchists probably could make their stateless societies, but Porky will destroy us with nuclear hellfire by then.
>>1039125 Our fates are in the hads of the Gods The future has already happened, we are just waiting for the experiance to hit us like the rawrs of thunder being heard after you see the lighting
>>1039137 hands*
>>1012374 >We would need a state dating and coop hookers program in socialism to cope with the sexual power disbalance and gender disbalance in general
>>1012374 Tinder... but socialist. Shut the fuck up uighur.
Unpopular opinion: We should allow idpol threads. Classism is obfuscated in modern society, and many people only realize "something's fucked" due to misogyny, racism, homophobia, or some other oppression not obviously linked to capitalism. If you honestly want to radicalize folks, start with where they're at! Allow idpol discussions and how these various oppressions exist to uphold class society and the domination of the investor(bourgeois) class.
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"Pinochet" is a slur
Obsession over purity (especially in the form of "anti-revisionism") is the single worst thing to happen to socialism. Ever since the Soviet Union rose up, the left has been plagued by thinly-veiled idealists hopped up on "ideological purity" constantly undermining the socialist cause. >"Got cucked out of the party leadership? Whelp, better go run off to Mexico and split the entire global communist movement in half, wasting an absurd amount of resources." >"Soviets being a bit too controlling over me? Whelp, I'll just team up with Egypt and India instead, certainly they'll stand by me instead of letting me fall to liberal drone-strikes!" >"Khrushchev is too liberal? Whelp, better go split the communist movement in half, and build a policy of supporting America, Pol Pot, and the Mujahideen!" >"The Soviets invaded wholesome Czechoslovakia? Waaaaah, I'm gonna break off all ties to them and become little more than Labor Party confidence-suppliers." >"The nation I joined with in breaking against the USSR has just turned revisionist as well? Whelp, even if it will essentially leave me helpless, fuck it, I'm gonna diplomatically isolate myself and put the future of my people in jeopardy just so my ideology remains untainted." >"The peasants and trade unions don't follow my exact form of Marxism? Guess I'd better go slaughter them so I have no allies in the face of the American-backed government." And so on. Every time the left decides that theoretical purity matters more than actual pragmatic success, the global proletariat suffers immensely. Just look at Mao: even if he happened to have the better theory, and even if Khrushchev sucked, you still shouldn't throw an autistic bitch-fit and split the entire global communist movement in half. That's obviously terrible realpolitik, and as we saw in China's pro-US policy, led to communists killing each other to the joy of capitalism worldwide. Idc if Mao's grievances were valid, you just don't fuck over your nominal ally cuz "muh revisionism". Keep in mind, too, that these ideological splits have a real, human cost, with millions (probably billions at this point) dying because you fucks cared more about fitting Marx's ideal vision than actually implementing a successful socialist government. Just imagine what the world would be like now, if we didn't have these autistic splitters wasting resources and dividing global socialism. The Soviet system could have stretched from Dalmatia to Hong Kong, from Lima to Tirana, but no, fuck having a far greater supply of resources and manpower, let's all fight each other because Moscow doesn't "have the correct line". And now look, you guys got your wish, you got to have your special little internationales and splits, and in return, we saw communism weak and divided in the face of capitalism and imperialism, and now we live in a neoliberal hellscape. I hope your theory-obsession was worth it. The worst part is that you fucks still haven't learned, even as we already saw socialism get massacred. Even now, when we see an anti-imperial struggle in Bolivia or Syria, you still see tons of leftists be like "Stop defending reactionaries, they're not socialist." Well guess what, we had socialist states to defend at one point, but your ideologically-pure predecessors let those states fail, so now you've gotta live in a world where reactionary anti-imperialism is the best we've got. And even still, you see tons of people, even on here, entirely abandon AES. "They still have commodity production!" "China has corporate investments!" "Vietnam uses markets!" Ok, and? Do you retards still not realize that letting imperfect socialism (or even just capitalist anti-imperialism) fall is just going to continue to bolster capitalism? Are you really going to let billions of people suffer just because it's not your "based Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Hoxhaist-Gonzaloist paradise"? Do you ideological purists really never learn from history? Don't you think it's telling that even China, the chief champion of anti-revisionism at one point in time, has since changed its mind and mended its differences with states like Laos and Cuba? I'm not saying we can't have standards, nobody's asking you to defend ISIS or anything, but if we are to survive, we need to set aside our theoretical slapfights and realize that a desperate pragmatism is the only way to survive against the most bleakly reactionary era since 1917. tldr; Support AES as well as anti-imperialist reaction (yes, that includes China and Russia respectively). Of course a more pure socialism would be preferable, but you abstaining support from these nations is only going to help global capitalism. Just be glad that we still have socialist nations to defend, because if you guys let these nations fall too because they don't fit your litmus test of socialism, we won't have anymore socialist states (even "social-imperialist" states) for a LONG time.
>>1039281 Pinochets of color
>>1012374 just have sex lmao
>>1009347 >even the most pessimistic scientist say it will take 1000 years for all the icecaps to melt here, . , you dropped your decimal point https://www.mdpi.com/2225-1154/8/1/15/htm it takes more assumptions to suggest that porky is orchestrating a crisis than it does to say porky is taking advantage of it
>>1039279 >due to misogyny, racism, homophobia unpopular opinion, these things do not exist in 2020
>>1039384 taking a wild guess: you're a straight white neckbeard?
>>1039412 >straight no >white yes >neckbeard i shave 1/3 correct, that's a F
>>1039384 Somebody's clearly never been to Burgerland, or at least never been outside the big cosmopolitan states
>>1039384 Are you mentally ill?
>>1039425 >i shave a cosmetics industry cuck I see
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>>1039384 Because they never did?
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>>1006777 This is true. One must only read 'dialectical and historical materialism' and let the light of Great Stalin into your heart, for he is the dialectic made flesh.
>>1039436 I've lived here all my life, women, minorities, and gays are trated perfectly fine, if you think the US or any first world country has a racism/sexism/homophobia problem your chasing after ghosts
>>1039505 Based
>>1039510 are you any of those things?
Unpopular Opinion: I've never read any theory. Care to suggest a Comrade some to start with?
>>1008535 Imagine having aspirations!
>>1039778 Critique of the Gotha Program, the Manifesto, and Socialism: Utopian and Scientific should give you a good basis from which you can start Kapital
>>1039773 the ruling class clearly does not care about your identity, the capitalist system does not care about your identity, and if resistance to them does care about identity then that resistance is shooting it's self in the foot by doing so
>>1006777 There is no reason to not vote, unless you live in a complete shithole where you have to stand in line for 9 hours (which granted describes a significant portion of the US). It's not even remotely the end-all be-all but it's still a form of power you have, especially in local elections. Not voting is just surrendering that power for no reason, and is not a form of "protest" by any means (nobody cares if you don't vote). (this is an unpopular opinion on /leftypol/)
>>1040257 it takes time that i could be spending sleeping
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>>1006777 Someone who is ignorant of Marxist theory beyond what some demagogue claims is Marxism, and they can end up following an ideology that has nothing in common with Marxism, and can not properly be called Marxism. Being ignorant of theory is the mark of the lumpenproletariat, and they can be easily lead to support dictators who occasionally parrot off some socialist sounding buzzwords as a smoke screen to cover up their fascism, which the ignorant lumpen is too ignorant to recognize even if they saw it due to their lack of understanding of theory, these are the idiots who will unironically defend Nazism as a socialist ideology because it has the word socialist in its name. I would say that at the barest of bare minimum a person should read Capital before they can be a real Marxist rather than a Lumpen follower who just so happens to be following Marxism for now by sheer blind luck rather than good judgement. Knowing the minimum set of theory will inoculate a person against being lead astray and into an ideology that is not Marxism.
What happens happens, I'm very fatalistic. I find it hard to believe we will change anything that wasn't always going to end up like that.
>>1008590 >There is very little intersection between the idpol causes and class struggle. The paraphrase Martin Luther King, the greatest impediment to black liberation isn't liberals, but anti-idpol leftists who paternalistically lay out the timetable for oppressed minorities liberation. All of your revolutions have failed except two. And those two places are some of the most miserable and poorest places to live on earth. There's no good reason to ignore idpol struggles like racial equality, except to preserve the comparative advantage that colonist whites have over their neo colonial subjects. Sorry /leftypol/ you sound like rabid racists to anyone outside your hug box. Myself have my family have suffered mightily due to racial discrimination. My illegal immigrant grandfather worked the fields for 30 straight years with only Christmas off doing hard labor that would break the body and mind of every single anon here in less than an an hour. And no, it wasn't because he was a worker. Of the millions of people that have suffered that, telling them they have to wait for revolution is just going to sound to them like all the liberals that tell them to wait for the next election before they can expect any change. So to all you anti-idpolers on this board, I deliver a hearty FUCK YOU from everyone that's materially suffered racial oppression.
>>1008617 >Why don't you think this board will hit old /leftypol/ numbers? The mods, as dumb as the old BO was, at least he only allowed his single political perspective to be imposed on the board. Now every single mod is enforcing a grab bag of pet issues and reactionary views. This makes /leftypol/ scatterbrained editorially and more like a social club than a political board. Can't tell you how many times I've been told to shut up about something because I didn't know this or that board personality. This drives away people. Also the mods and their bootlickers are humorless gits and ruin any fun that they don't 100% agree with. For the board to grow the mods would have to moderate in a way that allowed for far more topics and bantz.
>>1009377 based
>>1039279 Lol, the only thing an idpol thread will do is make /leftypol/ seem more like /pol/ when all the latent racists get triggered by the idea that hmmmm maybe white workers do have a hand in the oppression of black workers.
Patriarchy does not, and never did exist when you consider the majority of slaves throughout history all the way into today have been men.
>>1006777 True unpopular opinion: China is beacon of hope and will achieve communism before everybody else.
>>1007377 Wow, thanks for this analysis anon. It's the best explanation on why liberals have been so obsessed with LGBT issues lately. I always assumed it was to take all the oxygen from black liberation which poses a genuine threat to up ending the capitalist order. I still think that may be secondary, but you put forth is probably predominate. I also had no idea that the AIDS epidemic took the lives of 1/3 of gays at the time. But wouldn't this imply that 1/3 of gays are lumpen? That doesn't seem right since everything I've read suggests that gays are actually among the most productive and highly educated workers.
>>1006844 Patriotism can morph into fascism just as easily
>>1039339 BASED post
>>1009061 What's up with Jaiden?
>>1006777 White people need to stop talking about how colored people live, what they need, etc and let those colored people talk about their own needs and experience. Not all of us are uneducated and can speak for our people without resorting to violence or to needing the hand of a white person. No offense at all to my fellows comrades, on this board I’ve had multiple back and forth a with people only for them to say > “well I’m white so I don’t really know I was just commenting” Then don’t fucking comment. I’m sorry but having a colored friend doesn’t mean you can accurately describe what they are going through. Again no offense to anyone I do enjoy all the help you give but sometimes we can handle it ourselves.
>>1006777 You can support Rojava as an ML
>>1040530 LOL you are fucked you know that
>>1038645 >NOOOO NOT THE HECKIN ABORTERINOS cope harder radlib
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>>1038824 Monke no work is monke no eat
>>1040879 Quit mystifying minority lives. We live exactly like everybody else around us lives: we wake up early to the sound of an alarm, we SSS, we put on an employer-mandated costume, we throw breakfast together in time to run out the door, we commute to some big building in town, we spend eight hours smiling at assholes plus some hurried breaks wherein we shove stuff that barely qualifies as food down out gullets, we commute again, we make dinner, we eat with whoever else is there with us, we do housework because nobody has a stay-at-home wife to do that shit anymore, we squeeze in some shitposting or sports news or call somebody, we go to bed exhausted and dreading the next day where we will do the same shit all over again. That is the minority experience.
>>1040530 Actual patriarchy did exist during the agrarian era that existed between hunter/gatherer tribalism and capitalism. Then it got slowly dismantled by capitalism. What never existed is the omnipresent schizo fantasy that modern feminists call "patriarchy."
>>1040952 If you’re a minority and not trolling the you live a sad and pathetic life. I am a black Hispanic who has been in Latin America and USA, yes not all of us have “interesting “ life stories but have experiences. Whether all of us live in poverty or not doesn’t mean we don’t have experiences other have not. Even poor white people have unique experiences that I could not speak on even though I know some
>>1040952 >>1040983 It’s also not mystifying , no one is asking for a story to make a lib cry and say BLM. Just don’t start talking like you know everything about a colored person only to then say “wel I white so idk hehe xD “ and then not take into serious consideration what that person is trying to explain to you and why they experience it as a person who happens to not be white
>>1040933 Shit tier opinion
>>1040983 at the end of the day your "unique experiences" mean jack shit, this is true for everyone
>>1040983 What the fuck does any of that have to do with 'white people speaking for you' though. Like yeah white people might not like the same music/food as you do but ultimately you need healthcare, jobs, etc etc like everyone of every race does.
>>1041105 like your mom
>>1041153 Or do they?
>>1039339 Damn, almost like for all the bluster and name-dropping of materialism, these niggas were a bunch of idealists.
>>1039339 >Are you really going to let billions of people suffer just because it's not your "based Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Hoxhaist-Gonzaloist paradise"? Do you ideological purists really never learn from history? Don't you think it's telling that even China, the chief champion of anti-revisionism at one point in time, has since changed its mind and mended its differences with states like Laos and Cuba? They 100% would, because for them socialism is a niche subculture and not something to work towards
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>>1041370 >>1041376 Yep, for all their rhetoric, they care more about socialism as a mental exercise than as something to actually exist. It's no coincidence that most of these third-camp followers are wealthy Westerners who are already materially content with the status quo. Well, that and people like Hoxha and Gonzalo, who were so secluded in their libraries of theory that they lost sight of actually achieving a successful socialist government. People need to start viewing the socialist struggle as what it really is: a war. Not just any war either, but the most important war in human history, one which spans the entire globe and will decide the fate of humanity. And in war, you will often have to put aside your principles and make great sacrifices just for the sake of survival. Just as a general may have to implement horrific means to secure victory in a battle, a socialist may very well have to ally with despots like Assad and Hussein to further the destruction of neoliberal capitalism. Furthermore, just as no soldier would turn down potential allies because of personal agreements, we can't turn away from cooperating with states like the PRC and the DPRK, no matter how much we may disagree with their implementation of socialism. We are at war, and it's time we start acting like it. Capitalism understands the current state of warfare, and is perfectly willing to do horrific shit and ally with the most brutal thugs for the sake of victory. Unfortunately, until the banner of socialism flies over the entire globe, we must do the same just for the sake of survival.
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>>1039339 >capitalist anti-imperialism
>>1041401 Yeah the most absurd part of this is that the burgers and soviets did understand this principle with respect to teaming up to defeat the nazis in spite of their differences.
>>1039339 So what should we do then, anon? Unfurl our carpets for every tin-pot dictator who cements rule over their country with vague platitudes of aspiring to socialism while doing absolutely nothing to get there? Where's the dividing line? Is there one? Should we support Hitler too? After all, the Nazis described themselves as socialists. This is hardly exclusive to power-hungry opportunists of the capitalist era too. Hundreds of monarchs throughout human history have justified their rules with the same sort of propaganda of trying to make life better for the common people without actually doing so. Does that justify supporting them? Words and rhetoric are cheap. When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.
>>1041401 I don't know about you but my war isn't against the United States. It is against the entire global capitalist system. Rulers who claim to be "anti-imperialist" while grounding their economies in the same global capitalist system and wage labor pose the same obstacles to the emancipation of the proletariat as any other.
>>1041401 I think you are mostly right, but don't forget that constant revisionism inside the Party in the USSR led to their demise. So it's important to keep ones Identity, which in this case got lost on the way
>>1041431 Even assuming that's true (it's not), it's more effective to fight capitalist countries through divide and conquer. If you pit a bunch of weaker ones against the strongest ones, you can get them to fight each other, thereby weakening each other with less cost to your side. Then once one side wins (hopefully the weaker countries) it's easier for you to swoop in and defeat them in their weakened state after the wars.
Hey! Guess what? No one outside of the USA gives a flying fuck about the USA!
>>1041436 Speak for yourself. I love watching the empire crash and burn in real time. I've been a communist for a long time, this is like porn for me.
>>1041435 >it's more effective to fight capitalist countries through divide and conquer Has that really been established? Time and against the capitalists themselves have shown they are willing to work together as a class to defend their class interests. Even wars over what the future of global capitalism would be like such as World War I did not end well for proles, the national capitalists successfully atomized them, pitted them against one against one another, and repressed them.
>>1041431 This. People seem to forget, that fascists can also be "anti-imperialists".
>>1041431 Agreed, our war is against the entire capitalist system, a system which is currently based in exploiting the third-world. Therefore, unless we want to sit on our asses waiting for a communist movement to magically emerge out of theocracies, it is to our immediate pragmatic advantage to support anti-imperialist struggles, even if these struggles are being waged by state capitalist nations. Again, if the situation was better, we could have left these movements to die, but as the ascendance of neoliberalism has essentially put socialism on the verge of obliteration, we must ally with whatever will weaken the basis of Western capitalism. (And yes, as Western capitalism is objectively the most wide-reaching and extreme capitalism, the third-world state capitalism that occasionally flirts with socialism is infinitely preferable to ally with). There's a reason why communist parties in Syria and Bolivia ally with their anti-imperial governments rather than pulling this "both sides" bullshit. Also this: >>1041435. Just as socialist infighting helps capitalism, capitalist infighting helps socialism. >>1041425 What we should do is support anti-imperial struggles instead of sitting on our asses and waiting for an ideal socialist movement to emerge. Again, this is an incredibly desperate time for socialism, and we need to weaken the unified capitalist hegemony by any means necessary. The idea that Hitler, a privatizing industrialist who came to power to destroy communism, is at all comparable to anti-imperial movements across the world is utterly delusional. Nations like Ba'athist Iraq and Assad's Syria, for all their reactionary behavior, were still fighting to uproot global capitalist exploitation of the third-world, and just taking a "both sides" approach is just going to let global capitalism grow stronger as you twiddle your thumbs, waiting for a socialist movement to emerge that will have no allies since you already let the other anti-neoliberal nations get obliterated. I swear, you would've been the same fucks saying "Both the ANC and apartheid are capitalist!" or "Against America, against the Philippines, for class struggle!" Just because it's a struggle between two non-socialists doesn't mean that there isn't an objectively better side, namely the forces fighting global imperialism.
The pee-em-cee do exists. You have to be a braindead retard to not realize that there's a huge ideological and material rift between manual and intellectual workers, dispite both not owning the means of production.
>>1041459 I asked you where the dividing line was. It was a serious question. What is the difference between an opponent of the United States that deserves our "support" and an opponent of the United States that doesn't? Furthermore, what the fuck does that vague phrase "support" really entail? There are too many goddamn organizations that have split from others over the issue of supporting this or that country on the other side of the world that they never interact with. Most of the time "support" simply amounts to LARPing and words rather than anything material.
>>1038950 >max blumenthal and co are grifters the way he pivoted to being pro-assad so fast never sat right with me. especially considering who his father is
>>1041487 He's never been "pro-Assad", what a bullshit smear. Did you know it's possible to oppose regime-change intervention without supporting the current regime?
>>1008100 checked. based.
>>1006777 >people can be Marxist without reading theory WTF BASED
The memory of the USSR falling will prove to be a permanent roadblock against moving away from capitalism. Even starving and homeless, nobody will want to support socialism.
>>1052173 not an unpopular opinion.
>>1039384 Unironically kinda true. I mean, this things exist but they have next to non inherent meaning to the market. It's not like if any of them ended something would change besides "Yassss queen, female CEOS".
There is a silent approval and admiration of Nazism among the vast majority of citizens in western countries.
Vaush is overall a net benefit for the left. He is like a gateway drug for further left radicalization and right de-radicalization.
>>1052396 He's more of a gatekeeper towards further submission to the ruling class than a gateway drug to left radicalization.
>>1052369 That's a belief, not an opinion.
>>1052396 Bullshit. He says retarded nonsense and then when people call him on it he claims they're not real leftists.
>>1052417 The people Vaush reaches will eventually move on from him to more radical figures, just as people have moved on from Bernie Sanders. >>1052430 Who cares? The point is exposing people to leftist ideas.
>>1052524 People have moved on from Bernie Sanders back to Biden again. I doubt the Vaush to intelligent leftist pipeline is very wide.
>>1052531 Voting for Biden is not the same as ideologically moving from Bernard to Biden. No young Bernard supporter is enthusiastic about voting for Biden except for blue checkmarks on Twitter.
Suffering is actually an inherent good, so natalism and selfishness are actually good qualities.
>>1052547 They are not moving left at all, is what I'm saying.
>>1052628 What do you mean? Are you claiming Bernard didn't influence many young communists online?
>>1052635 Most Bernie supporters haven't moved left at all. The non-succdem American left is really, really small. Most American leftists are stuck in a very electorial mindset after all.
>>1052646 I'm getting doomerpilled

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