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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

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Any other blackanons get kinda discouraged when seeing how other image boards/sites see our race? Anonymous 10/15/2020 (Thu) 03:54:49 No. 999707
Do you just ignore it or does it get to you sometimes. Examples: pretty much any thread on 4chan even mentioning a black person.
>>1019905 >Irish Fighting actual colonial forces, not your "well akshually" definition >Catalonian Board kekked itself to death when the libtard pussied out and got arrested
>>1019913 British is actually more colonial than the United States? ok retard
>>1019931 Native Americans are black? ok gigaretard
>>1019934 what did I say that implies that? do you think imperialism is just when you take someone else’s land?
>>1019813 Please take that picture and circle with a red line the place where you see anything that indicates class and/or education
>>1019936 Who is talking about imperialism? Stop being a disingenuous faggot.
>>1019942 sounds like you’re projecting. I’ve been talking about imperialism ever since you replied to me.
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>>1019943 kys faggot
>>1019934 They are red
>>1000177 I have such mixed feelings about this position knowing a few black supremacists who use it.on one hand it absolutely btfos liberal we're all equal discourse and makes whitey uncomfortable on the other hand it assumes that exploitation can only happen from crackers and that a black slumlord is white on the inside or some shit. I think mainstream marxisms attempty to put a humanist bandaid on feminist and race issues is a huge failing of the left tho, there's something to say for everyone balkanizing and fucking off to their own self determined microstate. Mostly rambling trying to figure it out myself.
>>1020028 >there's something to say for everyone balkanizing and fucking off to their own self determined microstate There are plenty of things to say about it, none of them good.
>>1020090 Why? And please don't post some 1917 larp
>>1020028 All of that rhetoric would just vanish if people actually did the work to heal the past wounds and thoroughly understand other demographics (and I am certain there is some socially inept autist in here who will attack my position for phrasing it this way: "healing over the past"). All of the human species has this overall attitude of just "ignore it" or "forget about it" or "yah, that was bad.. I guess.." when it comes to atrocities committed and oppression done. Truly, this can be witnessed pretty much everywhere and there are only some exceptions. And the demographics who were targeted by said injustice are left to fight and implement that justice themselves most of the time. This again leaves a residue of resentment, because it leaves you thinking "Why weren't you fighting for me? Do you not care? You think what happened is okay?". Humanity needs to rise in its maturity in this regard. The problem is, while some people on both sides of an instance of this process actually are doing the work for healing, there is also pushback by ignorant people who therefore keep us from reaching the desired end goal. It's essentially something we all or at least the vast majority needs to be educated on and on board with, otherwise agitation by the ignorant will inadvertently lead to the re-opening of a sort of psychological wound that exists on a collective scale and causes counter-hostility. To say that we should just go with ethnostates or some shit is just lazy. It's a pathetic solution and essentially a capitulation. A surrendering to a flaw, that is fixable. Humanity would just continue to be stuck with its tribalistic shortcomings. You'd keep contact to a limit merely for this shortcoming not to express itself, but the problem is still there. I also don't see how Marxism, in its traditional sense, could have been argued to have helped in this regard anyway. As far as I understand Marxism on identity, it essentially tries to turn a blind eye to it. It pretends that human beings are just differently colored vessels waiting for material circumstances to shape them. Humans by and large are the product of their material circumstances, correct, and a worldview like that has been a humanist step up compared to the worldview of a colonialist/Nazi or whatever, but then again it ignores that identity does matter in our interactions. Human beings are a visual species and we draw associations and connections based on the identity of the person we are dealing with. That process can lead us to do bad or good and if we go about it the wrong way, we can stoke hostility based on said identity. This can't be ignored and you can't just tell people to shut up about it and you can't let socially inept incels push for Nazi-type ideologies as a solution to this problem, because these kinds of people are psychologically stunted and never have any solutions besides isolating themselves and hating everyone around them. What we must do is consider identity, but establish a proper way of dealing with it. This ideal is so easily reached if people just genuinely listen to each other and tried to genuinely understand what the other person is feeling. I have this theory that if we could relive our lives as people of different identities, hostility based on identity and past injustice would essentially vanish. My harm is your harm and vice versa. And as a side note. When I am talking about past injustice or past oppression (some of which is of course still present in some form) I am not talking about personal blame or personal guilt either. It's about recognizing damage done and taking on the responsibility to fix this issue, because ignoring it won't make it go away. It's like climate change. Do I own Exxon and am I responsible for gigantic amounts of carbon emissions that lead us closer to a climate catastrohpy? No. But I recognize it as a real problem and I, even if not personally responsible, need to take action in fixing this now existing problem. People - all of them - just want their pain to be understood and I am arguing that this is a type of problem that won't be solved by some calculated "facts over your feelings" pragmatism, but by raising the emotional and social intelligence of people and promoting empathy to elevate the species. This sounds very flower power-y, but when it comes to this problem I believe this to be true. Like as the most recent example, why would this person >>1000177 choose to write this, assuming they weren't just trolling? Obviously because of personal hurt based on their identity, now lashing out based on identity as well. Don't tell them to suck it up and to shut up. Engage with it. Heal it. And curb the hostility of other demographics who caused such hurt to arise to begin with.
>>1020273 Not reading because essay long but this is peak nu white kumbaya shit talking about healing when blacks are literally at war in the us is such peak lib fash shit
>>1020282 I'm not even white, but good to know you didn't read it.
(5.78 MB 640x360 Thomas Gon- Give It To Ya.mp4)
>>1020282 >long, elaborate considerations about historical oppression and race-relations and Marxism <lel whatever kill wh*tey gun-control no cracker control yes what a shame
>>1020313 Why did you post this ITT?
>>1020324 Just send racists to group therapy isn't a historical understanding of marxism you literal retard
>>1020342 Autism
>>1020273 Based beyond belief. If this was what intersectionality and idpol was about, I would be behind it. The problem is, the intersectionality lib shit is too essentialising and not based on class. The way it comes off to most white proles is just anti-white, and considering the class collaborationist nature of the project, understandibly so. I'm a Finn, and even I now have to listen to this shit from many lefties who think the conradiction between labour and capital is too "old school" and that "post-capitalism" will be brought about by nazi-esque mysticism and HR policies. Yes, I understand we did a very bad by joining the West (against of the wishes of the majority) and that refugees suffered a very bad by NATO wars that the Finnish bourgeois support (against the whishes of the majority). I understand that we need to build trust with the new comers who probably see us as Burger-lites and the native proles who are rightfully suspicious of this grand narrative of white colonizers of whose imperialisms we have benefited to such a degree we must now view even our own extremely based labour history as problematic. I do my best to understand other demographics and their situation, and when I explain it to the best of my ability to my fellow Fingolian proles they're mostly receptive. The problem comes when white prole - who might be receptive to at least the idea walking a mile in the other man's shoes - voices his concerns about why he is nonetheless suspicious of this political project and gets shut down. I believe that if we are to develop our own identity politics, it needs to be in direct opposition to critical theory and intersectionality. I think it must be subordinate to class, and it will in practice bear more resemblance to marrige counceling than struggle sessions. Yup, the white burger proles need to understand why black proles are a bit suspicious of them, but in order to take those steps there must be a mutual understanding that this shit won't come up eeevery fuckin' time there's a disagreement. I've lately been trying to learn some organizing skills by settling disputes in the warehouse I work at, and hilariously enough, the best ideas I've gotten has not come from old organizing manuals, but listening to relationship podcasts my ex used to push on me. Settling these kinds of scirmishes always comes down to some verison of "See you both want the same thing, but when you say this it makes her feel like this. And you didn't mean to do this, but when you did this, it made her feel like that" and so on. I've been toying around with a concept of setting up community councels between immigrants and native proles where I live, where people can voice their autistic fears and bond over mutually beneficial community projects, so that everyone isn't getting their idea of "the other" just by click bait news and fash propaganda. Unfortunately I'm too much of a recluse to set things in motion
>>1020273 >As far as I understand Marxism on identity, it essentially tries to turn a blind eye to it. It pretends that human beings are just differently colored vessels waiting for material circumstances to shape them. lol yes? are you some special black snowflake that material conditions have no power over you? are you some race essentialist or genetic determinist or something? seriously when you race fags start blabbering about your precious culture and shit, I just zone out. It's pure consumerism in the culture hypermarket. Fags that basically a product of modern american culture larping like le epic mongols and shit. Fucking idiocy.
>>1020751 >blah blah fags blah race essentialists blah blah blah I'm not listening blah blah Peace.
>>999707 We see your race for what it is and nothing more. Nobody is judging you on your skin color, but how your race collectively acts. Even the most hardcore racists know that there are exceptions to the stereotypes. We know we are generalizing. And generalizing is okay.
Nobody hates black people because of the color of their skin.
>>999787 I'm white with Chinese characteristics, in the sense that my grandmom is Asian
>>1037049 >>1037051 t. get's entire worldview from fake /pol/ infographics
>>1037049 >We know we are generalizing You're underestimating how retarded the average racist is, that's why it's dangerous to normalize racism.
>black anon posts >thread flooded with black fetishists This is why I'm starting to hate the left
I don't. I have been called a uighur multiple times irl and never given a shit. If a person holds racist views, that's their own problem. It just means that there's more black women for me.
>>1037381 (me) What makes me really disappointed however is when I see actual communists of any colour voice support for hoteps and black separatism. You shouldn't listen to a tiny racist minority who want an ethnostate, be they black or white.
>>1037381 >>1037400 I have an arabic friend. She told me that she doesn't so much mind the slurs. Like, to her people can call her a raghead all they want, whatever they're just dickheads and noone asked about their opinions. Where it gets unacceptable to her is when it's in the workplace, a place you can't leave, a place you must be in order to survive. Or when people in power over her use such words or show such sentiments. She says that while racism at the personal level sucks, it's not the kind of racism she's bothered about. It's when it gets systematic it's dangerous and she's really bothered that a lot of people conflate the two.
>>1037407 I just see open racists as having bad manners for the most part. Getting called a word 1 time doesn't really matter, people can treat you like shit in worse ways.
>>1037415 >>1037407 You two are ignoring the fact that if these people feel too comfortable with expressing those lesser forms of racism it can develop into something bigger. Plus what you are doing sounds like a pretended display of strength (I don‘t care). No one has the right to disrespect you in any context.
>>1037490 good post
>>1020491 literally me
>>1037490 I mean sure, racist attitudes can absolutely find their way into becoming systemic if they are allowed to grow organically - I wouldn't say that racist attitudes are not a problem - My take would be that when compared to racist attitudes back by actual power and violence, they are of little consequence to other people's lives. Like, as a white dude I am not worried about Hoteps because they are not a realistic threat to me in any way shape or form, even if they bully me or say nasty stuff to me over my skin-colour.
>>999787 >might be our only token we can use to show liberals how we're not nazbols imagine being this of a cuck
>>1037407 >stokelycarmichael.jpeg
>>1037490 >No one has the right to disrespect you in any context. Oh please. There are a lot of worse things that people could say to me other than just "u black". People are always going to assholes. >You two are ignoring the fact that if these people feel too comfortable with expressing those lesser forms of racism it can develop into something bigger. What are you going to do about it then? Arrest anybody who says something bad about someone else? Bullying in school/work for non-racist reasons can for example be worse than casual racism. Are you going to arrest every bully?
>>1020273 >>1020538 sorry but this shit is retarded. don't expect people to worship the very ground you walk on because you typed really long paragraphs. this isn't 4chan. anyway, I'm assuming both of you are white. neither of you are the first to think about "understanding" other cultures (as if you could ever understand someone who experienced a totally different lifestyle than you since birth) as this is literally what liberals are doing 24/7 by championing Black Panther shit and black culture with absolutely no personal connection. It's patronizing and just makes you look more suspicious and racist than you already are. you express doubts about Marxist "class first" politics but it seems that spending too much time on /leftypol/ around 14 year old white incels has you believing that being a "class-first materialist" means regurgitating right-wing "the past is in the past" rhetoric when that's not what it is at all. what being a materialist means is engaging in political ACTION that directly shows solidarity with the dispossessed in capitalism, and it's a FACT that black people have been the most dispossessed. this is how you're able to have black parties working with white gangsters and white supremacists (not that I condone this, I'm just saying why) in SPITE of their open racism, because this gives blacks an opening to just say "fuck it" and take advantage of the political resources that's been given to us. "understanding" is postmodern liberal bullshit. solidarity is what matters. I don't really care if you disagree with me now because you will learn the hard way whether you like it or not.
>>1037532 I wrote the first post. I‘m (half) black and I think you didn‘t understand me, because I didn‘t explicitly say it in my post. I believe class is the most important factor, which is why compared to all movements and revolutions communism takes precedence for me, because material realities are the most detrimental for our lives, circumstances and power that we possess. But I also believe that race, or other identity factors, are a separate problem next to class and that it couldn‘t be solved with communism. Capitalism had some influence to play on these issues based on race but in the end it’s another source of contention on its own. So I was laying down what I deem to be the solution for after a communist revolution.
>>1037548 my problem with liberal "understanding" praxis isn't that it isn't anti-capitalist, the whole thing is fundamentally flawed in its view of other cultures and races. I think championing a specific culture under the belief that you will "understand" is just as bad as just mocking the culture directly, because no matter what you do it's a shallow parody. it devalues it. my belief is that the only way you can truly relate to people on a level that resembles what you might call "understanding" (nobody can truly understand someone else) is by uncovering and recognizing each others struggles. I mean social and internal struggle in general, not just class struggle. which is why even under communism these sociological rules still apply. solidarity is how multicultural centers like trading posts and cities have been able to function cohesively for thousands of years. eventually suspicion and resentment just becomes superfluous when it becomes clear you and another person are working to each others benefit.
>>999944 fake ass and fake tits. disgusting
>>1037517 >stokelycarmichael I know nothing about Stokely Carmichael, though I've heard flattering things. Could you clue me in, anon?
>>1037523 >Oh please. There are a lot of worse things that people could say to me other than just "u black" People can do worse, so? Where‘s the logic in that post? If I call some woman a worthless whore at a social gathering would she be in the wrong for disliking that and wanting me to stop, because theoretically I could kill her instead? In school I had people call me a monkey and try to provoke me by saying the n word. I don‘t have to be okay with this just because „it could be worse“. >People are always going to assholes. Yeah and you can do something about it. What‘s with the submissive attitude? Just confront them and enforce your will. People treat you based on what you let them get away with. >What are you going to do about it then? Arrest anybody who says something bad about someone else? First of all you are being vague here on purpose. There is a difference between „saying something bad“ and attacking someone over their race. Second of all, in the country I live insulting people is against the law and you can go to court over this. There is nothing unreasonable about that. No one has the right to disrespect you. >Bullying in school/work for non-racist reasons can for example be worse than casual racism. Well yes, that‘s how you constructed your comparison, lol. What if it‘s bullying based on serious racism? Listen dude, there is a difference between pretending to not feel attacked when people try to get under your skin, which is fine, and actually believing it is fine for people to attack you. This passive fatalism certainly isn’t a good reason. You should be assertive and not let people mistreat you. That doesn‘t mean you make a fuss over miniscule things, but in the end you are the one teaching people what they can get away with. Honestly, live your life however you see fit, I‘m just saying I disagree with it.
>>1037598 I'm the guy with the arabic friend. I think maybe I worded the post poorly, excuse me, english is not my first language. My friend and I of course don't think you should just get to throw slurs at people in public or at social gatherings without any social consequence, what I was more saying is that while abuse will of course get her mad, racist sentiments as long as they exist "over there" is not something that she's concerned about. What scares her (and she is scared these days) is institutional and legal racism, and we believe that the twitter-crowd has a tendency to focus on each almost equally like they are equally a threat. I hear what you're saying, you can't demand from people that they just put up with being harrased and shit, but that was not quite what I was trying to say. I get why it may have come off like that.
>>1037588 >my problem with liberal "understanding" praxis isn't that it isn't anti-capitalist, the whole thing is fundamentally flawed in its view of other cultures and races. I think championing a specific culture under the belief that you will "understand" is just as bad as just mocking the culture directly, because no matter what you do it's a shallow parody. it devalues it. Okay. Maybe you said this as a side note, but in case you implied you believe that‘s what I‘m advocating for, then no not at all. > is by uncovering and recognizing each others struggles. I mean social and internal struggle in general, not just class struggle. which is why even under communism these sociological rules still apply. Yeah, I agree. That‘s what I was talking about. >eventually suspicion and resentment just becomes superfluous when it becomes clear you and another person are working to each others benefit. I think the problem here is that with pragmatically oriented solutions like that it becomes a criteria that people‘s interests must be aligned. On its own it‘s not a real solution. It hasn‘t fixed the core of the problem, it just redirects the focus on the benefit of cooperation.
>>1037608 Alright, I understand you more clearly now, it‘s cool.

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