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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join our matrix! https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org

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For New Anons and Lurkers: FAQ, rules, and reading list Comrade 08/05/2019 (Mon) 07:32:55 No. 8537
Guide for new Anons: https://bunkerchan.xyz/.media/72a78f39a9a53439bf2bdc6aeb272f7e-imagepng.png Groups: https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org http://steamcommunity.com/groups/leftypol http://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=leftypol Leftybooru: https://leftypics.booru.org/ FAQ: >How can you call yourselves leftist politically incorrect? /leftypol/ posters are allowed to voice opinions that offend liberals, SJWs, and so on. All sects on the left are allowed to post on /leftypol/, leading to plenty of fighting and shitflinging between leftists, which other forums might ban. However, this was only a minor consideration in the naming of /leftypol/. Since the concept is simply a leftist version of /pol/, the entire name of /pol/ was retained. >I'm not a leftist can I post here? Non-leftists can come here to ask questions. Board moderation here is more focused on maintaining a good board index, so non-leftists have to be on better behavior as OP than they do as participants in someone else's thread. If you aren't b8ing or shitposting, your thread is likely to stay up. >Are you liberals? Are you SJWs? Do you like Clinton? Are you all Zionists??? No liberals here. We hate the Democrat party. As for Israel, leftism is anti-Zionist. It is not anti-Jew. Unlike /pol/, /leftypol/ fully supports Palestinians, and doesn't think they're "mudslimes". Pretending to be an SJW or Zionist will very likely get you banned. >Why did you leave /pol/ and why does this board exist? /leftypol/ existed to help the 8chan community focus on leftist topics without being slid or flooded to death, and now has moved to Bunkerchan as constant alt-right chud murderers and Qanon boomers killed 8chan. >Do you support gun control? While posters on /leftypol/ have varying stances on gun control (training requirements, mental health checks, etc.), they are overwhelmingly in favor of arming the proletariat. >Do you support "national" socialism? No.
Edited last time by pask on 04/17/2020 (Fri) 09:58:39.
Is Max Stirner hard to read? Does The Ego and Its Own require any prior reading? I've read some Marx anyways
>>631749 It was hard for me to read. It helped to ask what other people's interpretations of Stirner were.
>>631749 I read a really shit old translation but there's what looks like a much better new translation on anarchist library by a wolfi something that I'm thinking of reading at some point.
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Is this a good book?
>>634431 Skip the intro of Zizek and then yes
Does an unbiased account of Stalin exist?
>>634561 no, being unbiased is idealist wishful thinking. The most objective account I have no fucking clue since all the left does is either deify stalin or make him out to be literally worse than hitler depending on the strain of leftism they adhere to.
>>634431 The edition I have doesn't have the Zizek into, so I can't speak to how it is, but on practice and on contradiction are extremely good, probably some of the most important things for a Marxist to read imo.
>>634561 there is no such thing as an unbiased account of anything, but especially Stalin.
I'm reading currently this. It pretty interesting so far, I'm surprised about the similarities to socialism.
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>>631749 Refer to >>>/dead/534. >>631893 How was it hard? >>633910 Yes there is, check the cross-link above. >>634561 "Unbiased" is a myth.
how do i put a flag next to my name
>>635432 u just do it
>>635432 click on "extras" in the post box.
>>635334 Lol check out Gaddafi's work next
>>634561 Ok but what would be the most objective account of Stalin one could read? I don't want to read one that goes on about the 8 gorillian Kulaks he killed. On the other hand I don't want a 'Stalin did nothing wrong' text either. "Another View of Stalin' by Ludo Martens seems to be very pro-stalin
>>634561 >Does an unbiased account of Stalin exist? No try reading Domenico Losurdo
>>634561 >>634561 there's no such thing as unbiased accounts. every historian has an ideology, even if they say they don't.
>>639488 This basically, in any account of historical events the person doing the accounting has to choose to omit or emphasize certain information and the selection of this information is guided by latent preferences or ideology, even if they aren't directly trying to propagandize. The only truly "unbiased" accounting is by drawing from many sources and generating your own conclusions.
since in communism you dont get paid according to deed, when your labour helps people according to need, isn't that kind of surplus extraction from the commune/syndicate you are in?
>>641886 Gonna need you to explain that beyond vague generalities fam
>>642019 doesn't the commune extract surplus value from you when you work for this commune while they might profit more from it then you?
>>642133 created value is held in common, your complaint is like saying "when I plant a tree it's unfair that someone else might enjoy its shade"
>>643682 >complaint it is not meant as a complained, i am just asking, the point of not getting your surplus value taken is that you can keep the fruits of your labour, but when you "share" your labour with others according to need you dont get the whole of what you worked for right? so isn't that a kind of surplus extraction?
>>643803 No because you would be "repaid" by the labour of others if the rules you follow are followed by everyone else.
>>643871 but some people have more ability and less needs, so what if you dont get repaid? isn't it then surplus extraction?
>>644806 >but some people have more ability and less needs, so what if you dont get repaid? okay, explain exactly how you're thinking this would pay out.
>>645273 you have a guy, he is called chad, he lives in a commune of 10 people, he does half the work of his commune alone, yet he only gets 1/10th of the fruits of the labour of the commune, he did not get the whole fruits of his labour right? so did not some surplus value get extracted?
>>645350 well, surplus labor yes, surplus value no, because in communism the law of value will no longer be operational. So yes, some people might contribute more then they get out, that is what "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" means. Won't people be mad about this? No, communism can only occur when the forces of production are developed to an incredible degree. Nobody will care about that sort of thing when we can trivially provide for all wants and needs without great exertion.
>>645374 >surplus labor yes, surplus value no oh yes of course, makes sense >Won't people be mad about this? to be clear, i am a communist, i just think i sounded weird that there is often talk about how value is extracted by the bourgeoisie and how this system must be abolished yet in communism surplus labour gets extracted, i think the "bourgeoisie are thieves" argument get a little less punch because of it, although it does not invalidate it, obviously both cases are fundamentally different, i just wanted to know what people's response is to this issue
https://archive.org/details/the-bureaucratic-revolution-the-rise-of-the-stalinist-state-max-shachtman-compressed-compressed/mode/2up >The Bureaucratic Revolution: The Rise of the Stalinist State (articles of the 1930s and 1940s, published in 1962). Shachtman argues that the Soviet Union had become a new kind of class society, ruled by the Communist bureaucracy, exploiting and oppressing the working class, and also imperialist.
>>634561 Kotkin's Stalin books.
>>646009 kotkin is a liberal
>>646005 >Max Shachtman yeah, nobody should take that seriously
Is Fundamentals of Marxism–Leninism by Otto Wille Kuusinen worth reading?
>>646431 Yes, I think so. It lays out clearly, in textbook fashion pretty much all of the important parts of ML, in an easy to understand fashion, without having to read a million different books on many different topics. I think after reading Fundamentals of ML, you should read all of the different books to deepen you understanding, but you will understand them better having a deep understanding of Marxism already. You should note it was published during the Khrushchev era of the USSR, and thus doesn't contain many references to or quotes of Stalin, and does contain a few of Khrushchev. This is unfortunate, but the basics it teaches are in the large uncorrupted by Khrushchevite revisionism, or I wouldn't recommend it. Its based on Marx, Engels and Lenin, and its good stuff.
>>605487 Wayback Archive may be going down, so this is all the more important. Save the communist works first! And the leftypol archived threads, comrades!
>>647651 liberal bias. We had a thread last month pointing out some of the rubbish in his books and debunking them.
What's the difference between value, exchange-value and price?
gib the quick rundown on the cop hate that is so at an all time high I don't really get the point of it anymore. How are cops not workers. The cop that "killed" that dude was basically protecting a minority/brown or very poor persons business lmao.
Leftoids have successfully asserted themselves as a second force in politics in opposition to the other liberal force. Me as an "conservative" know-nothing fence-sitter is really powerless and defeated. My life and future is now being determined by these two opposing forces that I really want nothing to do with honestly. But I don't really have anything to lose. Liberalism wins and nothing really changes in my life. My wage slave lives continues as always. leftoids win and I get this flat society without exploitation and alienation that is the ultimate good and nice for everyone and everything. I don't really know my obligations under this regime of paralleled forces but I'm having fun taking shots at both, it's almost liberating to be honest. It's like living outside of society but trapped in it. It reminds me of a few years ago when people were talking about the level of irony and "meme" that Russians possess that was supposedly forged in the amalgam of opposing socio-political forces of their present and history.
>>651127 >gib the quick rundown on the cop hate that is so at an all time high I don't really get the point of it anymore. Society gives the cops the authority to create a monopoly on violence, and in return society expects a very large reduction of violence based conflict resolution. If cops become a source of violence on the other-hand...
>>651168 >Liberalism wins and nothing really changes in my life. My wage slave lives continues as always. I'm sorry my friend it won't. Maybe the worst of climate change will not be felt by you, however you will get some of the shitstorm to come because saving the Earth isn't profitable. What may happen in the near future is a complete collapse of the economy worse than the great depression. Capitalism will contradict itself to death. We have never been more consumerist, while also having wages being incredibly surpressed. Profits are "high" but everyone is in deep debt and can't buy anything without credit. A huge aging poplulation and not enough younger people to care for them. Oil may run out and we are burning more fossil fuels and producing more plastic than ever before. What needs to be done must be on such a massive scale cannot be done by capital. It is too much investment with a negative return. We have the technology, we have the labor, we do not have the economic system and political will to fix these problems. That is where a system that produces for use and not profit or exchange comes in.
>>651127 your interpretation of cops killing a man for using a fake 20 dollar bill( which are very common in the USA) as "protecting the business" is extremely bad faith. especially since the owners expressed they would have rather not. The capitalist police are the armed body that protects the extraction of surplus labor by capitalists. It is only in direct opposition to them that the proletariat will ever be able to seize the means of production. Throughout history, capitalist cops have only stood in the way of the advancement of labor
>>651168 Well, maybe the fact that your own ideology completely failed to solve the problems it created should tell you something.
>>651290 I don't know my own ideology
>>651293 >I don't know my own ideology >>651168 >Me as an "conservative" know-nothing fence-sitter is really powerless and defeated. <Me as an "conservative"
>>651297 >fence-sitter Whatever dumbass I have an admittedly "feelings" based attachment to social conservatism. I try to challenge this by reading some lefty communist stuff and sociology. I don't have link now but I read this old feminist thing about the division of labor and I can see how these conservative values are ideology created by material conditions blah blah blah whatever. I go back and forth believing this and then not.
>>651297 This new anon is here trying to learn more and be open minded, give him a break you chapofag

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