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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion.

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HERE IT COMES Anonymous 01/13/2020 (Mon) 19:11:58 No. 211846
IT HAS BEGUN cnn.com/2020/01/13/politics/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-meeting/index.html DEBATE NOTICE Debate will be streamed on CNN only, but this chat has been set up to chat during the debates https://cytu.be/r/classwar and maybe stream if someone sets up a YT stream. The US thread has been cycled as well. Check out the US thread OP for more info. This thread will soon be saged because there is no need to have two US threads. Also, stop making threads each time Bernie breathes.
Edited last time by antious666 on 01/15/2020 (Wed) 00:54:00.
>>211909 Then you're a retard.
>>212726 >What happened with Corbyn was because labour took a shit stance on Brexit This is the Labour equivalent to USA libs' "RUSSIA DID IT" response to 2016. Counties' % Leave votes had very low correlation to Labour losing support. What actually happened to Corbyn was an indication of a much deeper problem: The Labour program was superficially popular, but there was no profound connection between working class people and the party. There was no sense of trust in Corbyn, Labour or national politics as a whole. This is the rotten legacy of Blair and Brown. So when the media came and redoubled their effort to discredit and smear Corbyn, there was no counter-narrative for politically disengaged people. When they attacked Corbyn, very few people actually felt it as an attack on themselves and on their class. It was just another part of the Spectacle.
>>212870 >>212726 >>212723 Oh and btw, this is exactly why I'm 95% sure Bernie will go down the same way. The Dems have the exact same problem, only a thousand times worse. Berniecrats like to talk a bunch of utopian bullshit about him building a "working class movement" to counteract the elite and the media, but that's not something that's gonna happen overnight. Our Revolution is, in effect, not much more than a fund-raising operation welded to a mailing list, and despite being around for almost 4-5 years now, has yet to convincingly decide a single election. Even the DSA has successfully done more. The USA is the Mecca of politics as spectator sport. There's no fucking way a single person or organization can magically transform it in time for a single election, especially when all historical materialist forces are aligned AGAINST class consciousness and a "working class movement". Bernie will be smeared to hell and back in the media, it will successfully sway politically disengaged voters, and Bernie will lose.
one last point >b-b-b-but what about all the working class people he's bringing into the process This is the mentality of the "ivory tower socialist" who has never actually gone out and talked to working class people. There's this myth among Sanderistas of a vast progressive non-voting majority, but it's plainly false. Most non-voters are (small-c) conservative, even deeply conservative. Nixon wasn't bullshitting when he spoke of the silent majority. Non-voters aren't all destitute poverty-stricken single mothers and homeless people. A lot of them — even the majority — are just "normies", people who don't give a shit either way, in a large part because their place in the world is fairly comfortable and secure. Solf libertarians, Chad socialites, self-employed tradesmen, or just general lumpens. These people are the reserve army for a fascist reaction, not the working class waiting to be organized.
>>212870 >corbyn is sanders How many more times do I have to read this shit idealist takes that I can find replicated almost identically in the New York Times or on CNN.
>>212889 Finally, someone here gets it.
>>213066 No he does not get it you fucking mongoloid. Easiest way to find an idiot is to listen out for "uhm actually brexit wasn't decisive" from some clueless tryhard. >>212870 >Counties' % Leave votes had very low correlation to Labour losing support. Glanced at paul mason on twitter: the post. People who say this have no understanding of british elections. The popular vote matters even less so than the electoral college in America. It's highly possible that by respecting the result we would have gained more seats with possibly fewer votes. Though we may have lost more remainers the majority of them were in safe seats. None of this even matters anyway, since respecting the result was the right thing to do regardless of liberal confusion that seems to have effected your way of thinking. You are correct that there is a deeper problem that is the fault of kinnock and blair but brexit epitomised this alienation and gave the tories an easy attack line. It COULD have been the basis of a campaign to regain some lost ground. >>212889 People should be very aware of the fact there are a million ways they can screw him, but I don't think the propaganda is as effective in america. You seem to underestimate the influence of the British media. >>212905 Even though you're trying to pass this off as "I'm more socialister and working class than you" it's obvious you have taken this liberal position to support your blackpilling, but it doesn't exactly jive with your previous assertion that the working class movement that would have won them the election was thrown away by labour. And before you say britain and the usa are different, you just used Corbyn's loss as evidence bernie will lose.
>>213352 My point is twofold: A. Corbyn lacked (and Bernie lacks) a real working class movement to back him up. B. No such working class movement exists because the material conditions are not conductive to working class organizing. The structure of workplaces and physical, social and cultural atomization of individuals makes class consciousness nearly impossible. There is no contradiction here.
>>213453 >gets utterly BTFO on every point >uhhhhh no what i really meant was *farts out defeatist shitpost* Glow elsewhere.
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>>212736 They're not going to agree with it, they're going to be taken kicking and screaming. They're probably going to do what they did in 2016 and give Trump 24/7 free advertising, because that's ultimately what AT&T want.
>>213513 The only way I can imagine them defeating Bernie is by propping up a third party candidate. I'm not sure who it would be, some people suggested bloomberg but he has recently claimed he would try to fund whomever the dem nominee is, even if it's bernie. The media probably wouldn't say it outright, because currently they seem to hate third party candidates, but they would pretend to be responding to good policies and a base for that candidate to keep propping the cunt up...
>>213352 People seem to think of Americans as being sheeplike whenever I would say that Europeans have much less potential for class consciousness than America does.
>>212701 You are laughably naive and ignorant.
>>213652 You are aware socdem presidents have been elected before, yes?
>>213663 The US isn't Europe. Unless you're talking about FDR or something, in which case lmao
>>213472 Where the flying fuck is there an organized working class in the 21st century?
>>213679 Greece, Portugal, Russia, Belgium, France. Never forget how influential CP owned syndicates can be.
People acting like Sanders won't be the nominee because he'll lose the primary, but that literally doesn't matter. The DNC can just nominate whomever they want. There is Z E R O obligation for them to honor the pirmary.
>>213693 They will if they can, but what story would they use to do such a thing?
The amount of pushing of this ridiculous "story" is so fucking blatant I wouldn't be surprised if even normie liberals catch on to what's happening.
>>213699 The story that there's nothing in the rules saying they can't. The DNC and RNC are private organizations without any obligation to follow a procedure for nominating a candidate.
>>213702 That would piss off a lot of people without some bullshit story for cover
real excited for the debate livethread tonight bois
>>213700 Guarantee that this is a Clinton move. It's classic Clinton strategy - muddy the waters and keep your soldiers in line through fear of the enemy. Every time Warren does a Clintonism though, she predictably tanks. Warren's base may be shitlibs, but many of them do not want another Clinton and the same shit they've seen for 30 fucking years.
>>213705 Are we doing cytube?
>>213708 Let's go: cytu.be/r/classwar
>>213708 usually its just a livethread but i wouldn't object. my setup has been to have one corner of the screen for the debate, one corner for the chapo commentary, one corner for the leftypol thread, and the last corner cycles between various chatrooms
>>213692 Wonderful. Nothing of note from any of these places.
Not going into Chad's harem chat.
>>213722 Is there a democratic debate today?
>>213733 yeah at nine (in about 2 hour and 15)
>>211846 This'll never work. Bernie has a great reputation, and he's basically smear-proof.
>>213736 Are we going to have an online watch party or something?
>>213787 yes, here https://cytu.be/r/classwar But the debate will only stream on CNN, so unless someone sets up a stream, it'll just be a chat.
I give you tomorrow's top news story
>>212472 >she was always a wolf in sheep's clothing it's that. she's been an establishment trojan horse the entire time, there either to split the progressive vote ensuring a centrist wins the nom, or just trick enough progressives into voting for her so that a centrist wins the nom (her). The latter already failed and it's been looking like the former could fail too, so now this. Straight up sith reveal and order 66.
>>214661 100% correct take, good summary.
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This is astonishing. Warren is surely finished now. I think the crucial part that makes this strategy so ridiculous is that the two charges quickly levied against Bernie are only bad for "muh unity" reasons and he didn't even do either thing
>>214900 Kek. Even msnbc isn’t buying her bullshit.
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>>214460 what am i looking at here?
>>214912 This whole thing about debate qualifications really is just blacking people out. I know Yang and Tulsi have to be beating one or two of them in searches. Nobody gives a fuck about Klob at least.
>>214919 Which candidate was most googled after(or during) the debate, by county.
>>214922 >after(or during my bad, it’s between 6-13th January.
>>214460 fucking steyer lmao
>>214919 >Sandman and Warren approach each other >Sandman goes to shake Warren's hand >Warren clasps her hands and blocks the shake >Sanders retracts his hand >Warren starts lecturing him >Steyer arrives and realizes he walked in on something uncomfortable >Sanders blows Warren off and Shakes Steyer's hand to make him feel less awkward.
>>214900 Damn, if even MSNBC is taking Bernie's side you know Warren completely fucked up.
>>215184 A Morning Joe take is not always the same as the MSNBC line. Remember Joe is just a Republican that doesn't like Trump. Mika's a liberal centrist but who i think has usually been kind of anti-idpol. They were often critical of Hillary and somewhat supportive of Bernie in 2016, but MSNBC on the whole was absolutely not. I bet if you watched MSNBC most of it would be more on Warren's side here.
>>215293 You're probably right. I just can't watch that shit. I watch more Fox News than I do MSNBC. At least Fox is entertaining with their lies.

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