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(185.98 KB 659x892 Mao_Zedong_in_1959_(cropped).jpg)
Redpill me on Mao Zedong and the Great leap forward Hussien Shaban 01/10/2020 (Fri) 01:11:43 No. 206843
I'm always being tolled about how many people Mao killed. Articles are all right, but I'm more of a visual learner, so documentaries are most preferred. Book recommendations are nice as well.
Mao tried to revise MLism to fit China's conditions and he went too far. He also had some real harebrained ideas that got lots of people killed. He's a good example of how no matter how shitty your communism is, it's still going to give you some of the great results. So quit fussing over muh troo communism and letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Do communism ASAP. Get capitalism out the way as much as possible but then also work on making your system better because it will be sloppy.
The best counter-argument I use against the chinese "genocide" goes a little something like this: >muh 100 gazillion dead chinks remember the holodogulag leap forward they never even attempt to reply libtards owned
>>206848 >millions of people die >"sloppy" hope you die of starvation because muh communism The good that came from Mao was giving China capitalism's fruits. They were still poor until going full capitalism in the 2000s.
>>206857 Mao industrialized a country that was an agrarian back water in less than a century.
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>>206857 This post irradiates strong fluorescent light
>>206857 Let’s be honest commies even do capitalism better than capitalists. Just juxtapose China and India - they had similar conditions in 1950s- China has soared while India stayed relatively stagnant.
>>206866 SUPERPOWER BY 2020
>Be Lmao Zedong. >Be the most powerful man in the country. >want to turn China into industrial superpower. >have the chinese population consolidated into communes, where money is abolished and replaced with work points, and people eat for free in communal kitchens. >the great leap forward commences. The whole country is on board and enthousiastic. >communes compete with ones another to see who can be the most productive. >it gets to the point to where some of them are lying about their production targets so show up the other communes and appear the most productive, leading to shortages later. >Mao decides to kill all of the sparrows to boost grain production. >totally backfires and throws ecosystem out of whack. >terrible weather during the years leads to piss poor crop yields. >doesnt help that workers are being pulled from agricultural work to smelt substandard steel in backyard furnaces and work on faulty damns, irrigation system, and other blunderous construction projects. >Turns out its kinda hard to smelt iron and build structures without anyone having knowledge of metallurgy or engineering. >mass starvation commences, famines sweeps the country side. >martial law declared, people are forced to remain in the communes at gunpoint. >amidst the famine, to make China appear like a rich prosperous country to the world, Mao starts having grain exported out of the country. >at the same time, Mao sympathizes with his people, goes vegetarian, and starts his own rice garden. >4 years and several million dead of starvation later, the great leap forward comes to an end prematurely, and Mao loses favor in the communist party. He remains chairman, but takes more of a figurehead role in party politics.
>>206871 The lessons here are: <competition is bad <respect the ecosystem <respect material conditions <recognize when you fucked up
>>206843 retarded chink chauvinist all was going well in the first five-year plan but he just had to throw a fit about not getting nukes on a silver platter and gone full anarchist backyard furnaces on head retarded, after which capitalist restoration was just a matter of time
This redpill shit is retarded. Mao Zedong could’ve exterminated 99.99% of the planets whole population and that still has fuckall to do with the legitimacy of communism.
>>206871 >Not mentioning the Korean War which created a huge drain on both manpower and resources >Every setback is because of China alone Undialectical and idealistic. The great leap ended starvation and created a huge potential for China to export the revolution. The bad thing was that it cemented some right wing ideas of nationalism into the development of Chinese socialism that later devolved into Dengism and opportunists infiltration of the party structure. The industrial development used the peasant class as the central push of course is another idiotic failure that even the Vietminh realized early on as they finish their version of land reforms.
>>206882 >>206879 Chinese nationalism/chauvinism is a significant problem. It's a major tradition going way back. The name of the country means "middle kingdom" designating that China is literally physically the center of the world if not the universe. Arguably it played an important role in the Sino-Soviet split. Mao's revision was motivated in part to have a "Chinese version" of communism, as illustrated by the name "socialism with Chinese characteristics." Americans have a similar sort of problem, but it's nowhere near as deep rooted, and ours has more to do with valorizing idiocy.
>>206866 >Let’s be honest commies even do capitalism better than capitalists. Just juxtapose China and India - they had similar conditions in 1950s- China has soared while India stayed relatively stagnant. They have the advantage that they don't believe in it.
>>206891 >China's name is racist because they think they're at the center of the universe why do retards keep saying this? it's just a name some fag emperor came up with thousands of years ago
>>206891 You think Mao was a revisionist?
>>206891 It’s racist but in a different reason. In Xi’s book on the governance of China, he noted the people living under the PRC but isn’t ethnic or culturally Han are considered “minor people” and not part of “Chinese people”. It’s not really China chauvinism but more of Han chauvinism. You really couldn’t blame Mao for this because unlike other noted revolutionaries like the old Bolsherviks, Ho, Kim, Castro and Che,… he never got a chance to interact with the international proletariat to shake off that nationalism which made his development of socialism extremely Sino-centric.
Mao is the perfect example of why great wartime leaders always suck as peacetime leaders and vice versa.
>>206921 Not that guy, and I don't think Mao was a revisionist, but even though Mao is upheld as a radical proletarian internationalist (despite making some questionable foreign policy decisions after the Sino-Soviet Split) he couldn't escape Chinese nationalism (which isn't Han ethno-nationalism by the way inb4 the glowniggas and libs show up). The whole "with Chinese Characteristics" goes back to the time when Stalin was alive, who criticised Mao for it. The Chinese flag does not show hammer and sickle as representatives of the working class and the peasantry, but multiple stars representing "the classes of the Chinese nation" including the national bourgeoisie. The CPC's constitution says that they're the vanguard of the Chinese nation before they say that they're the vanguard of the working class. A redeeming aspect though: The Chinese constitution does say that they're a DotP, a worker and peasant state.
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>>206882 >>206891 >>207025 >>207176 MAO IS NAZBOL GANG
>>206919 I was literally taught this by a chinese language instructor from china.
How many he kill? I think the numbers are inflated whats going on?
>>231412 Conservative estimates start at 500 million, he probably killed the whole population of China many times over
>>231412 The numbers are inflated. They were calculated by projecting birth rates of previous years so millions of people who were not even born or even conceived are counted as "famine deaths".
>>206857 *glows*
>>231412 15 mill at best, 40mill at worst So, basically Hitler in terms of killcount but he managed to do it in most populated place on earth
>>231450 Sources need muh sources. Remember its not to prove it to me. Its so I can prove it to others.
>>231422 Genghis who? Mao in town! Seriously though guys kinda want socialism to win and want info to defend its legacy, not make a joke out of it.
>>231450 Basically hitler is 3-4 times worse population accounted?
>>231462 Prove what? >he didn't kill 60 gorillion, merely 40 million! Its not a good argument, if you want to discuss Mao just admit mistakes were made and point out the positive things he achieved
>>231469 Well I know they did good things of improving production, defeating illiteracy... sources on that then? Also yes I believe showing the inflated statistics, for what they are, helps improve socialism's image. So I agree the argument should be fixed history, plus its achievements.
>>206843 He was based and REDpiled
What the fuck happened to this board. This thread is like going into r/socialism
FUCK SPARROWS BOTTOM TEXT
>>231412 bout two fiddy
>>207739 that's not a qualification. confucius institute teachers are basically randos not fucking academics on chinese historiography. unless you mean 中国 literally means "middle kingdom" in which case yes, obviously
>>275317 It just means central state, as in, political centralism against the mostly automomous regions, during the warring period, each warlord pretented to unify China "中国" under the mandate of Heaven.
Before Mao, there was always a famine somewhere in China. There hasn't been a famine since the Great Leap Forward. The sparrow thing needs to be regarded in the context of 1950/60's "ecology" which was all about scorched earth policies. The WHO had announced that were going to rid the world of small pox and polio, new pesticides and fungicides were being dumped all over the place to guarantee reliable crop yields, various disease vectors like Anopheles gambiae were being targeted for destruction freeing whole swaths of the human population from living under the burden of malaria and other diseases, at the start of the twentieth century the average human had 3 internal parasites but in the first world that number would decline to nearly zero, etc, etc. It wouldn't be until the 1960s that a more nuanced approach to ecology would start taking hold.
NUKE THE SPARROWS

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