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Permaculture Anonymous 12/15/2019 (Sun) 01:53:45 No. 161914
The practice and principles of Permaculture are one of the most important tools for not only creating a sustainable socialism, but also for repairing the damage done to the global ecosystem by capitalism, and lessening your individual reliance on the current capitalist system.
Permacultural practice and socialism are two very powerful allies, and learning about permaculture should be necessity for modern socialists and communists.
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>>498944 motherfucker it's libgen links. My upload speed is absolute dogshit
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>>498941 >>498945 >shrooms will save the world Since you recommend reading this book can you give me a summary specifically does it say that chemically modifying people's brains will fix capitalism ?
>>498952 Lol. He talks about a lot of things. How certain mushrooms can be symbiotic with bees and protect them from pests, how mushroom mycelium is symbiotic with the roots of most plants and helps protect them from disease and harmful fungi. Basically mushrooms are very, very cool and useful for a whole lot of purposes, but we don't really think about them or incorporate them into our systems because we see them as this harmful, alien thing.
Ok so how do you stop permaculture becoming illegalized and stamped out by the capitalist state?
>>499132 >how do you stop x thing becoming illegal and stamped out by the state >why don't porkies just ban revolution This isn't constructive discussion
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>>498952 Mushrooms are just the fruiting bodies of fungus (like flowers on plants). Fungus is mostly mycelium, a network of root-like structures in the soil. The mycelium is largely responsible for the health of the soil and the things growing in it, and is a highly sophisticated system that can respond "intelligently" to changes in the environment. This can be used to our advantage by getting it to do things like produce antibodies and filter things.
>>499132 Same way you do anything. You work your arse off and organise to build a mass movement that can scare porky when they manifest in the streets. It doesn't always work*, but if you don't fight you've already lost, and often it has worked. *(The biggest example of this is the Iraq war protests, but here's a dark counter-thought for you: imagine what the US and UK approach to that war would have been WITHOUT the mass demonstrations. Iraq was a huge human catastrophe, but without could easily have turned into a super-Vietnam, "bomb them back to the stone age", mass napalm drops on schools Baghdad, etc.)
>>500125 lol, Paul Stamets is bae but he can't give a Ted Talk to save his life. This talk was in the recommended column, and it's even more relevant to permaculture. About 4 minutes in he starts talking about working on a permaculture farm, even. The talk touches on Cartesian idealism vs Darwinian materialism too, and puts into perspective how divorced from reality traditional agriculture is. https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_pollan_a_plant_s_eye_view
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Does anyone have luck growing vegetables in straight compost no dig style like charles dowding or any number of people on youtube? I tried this on my raised beds and it seems ok for transplanting (although I think there was a potassium deficiency I fixed with wood ash) but my germination rates for direct sowing are absolutely abysmal. This is my first time gardening so I was expecting to make mistakes, in the future I'm going to mix compost with my native clay soil and also some 10 10 10 all purpose fertilizer (I know this isn't really permaculture but frankly fertilizer, unlike pesticides, is only harmful because of the industry behind its production, also using chemical fertilizers generally increases earthworm populations). Probably will throw some perlite in there too. I just wonder why this works so well for some people but not for others.
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>>508066 Does that mean we should return to wild mustard in a Permaculture setup & harvest the entire plant?
What do you think about this Water Vortex system? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY3p2e1-kN4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitation_water_vortex_power_plant I can see some advantages over other power sources like Solar or Nuclear 1. Doesn't need any exotic materials like Graphite or Lithium that need to be mined or synthesized 2. Doesn't need external batteries 3. Extremely simplistic as it has very few moving parts meaning it's easily maintainable, I mean like compare this to the complexity of an nuclear power plant holy fuck 4. Can be active all day & night unlike solar 5. Unlike a Hydroelectric dam theres no need to divert huge channels of water & fucking up the flow of the water A big problem with any centralised power power grid such as a solar plant in a desert or a nuclear plant is that you actually have to transport the electricity over power lines for it be used which sucks as a part of the electricity transported will be lost as heat. To fix this problem you would have to bring in power lines made out of superconductive materials which would add onto the existing infrastructure maintenance. Also speaking of Mushrooms & Chernobyl... https://www.nature.com/news/2007/070521/full/news070521-5.html >Since the 1986 meltdown, at the Chernobyl Atomic Energy Station, the numbers of 'black fungi', rich in melanin, have risen steeply. Casadevall speculated that the fungi could be feeding on the radiation that contaminates the ruin of the nuclear reactor. Dadachova, Casadevall and their colleagues tested how three different species of fungus respond to gamma radiation from rhenium-188 and tungsten-188. They found that all three, Cladosporium sphaerospermum, Cryptococcus neoformans and Wangiella dermatitidis, grow faster in the radiation's presence.
>>436540 What about Date Palms? Those take years to bear fruit though..
>>515255 wild varieties of plants tend to be much hardier so they require much less care. However their yield will be less and less palatable. Stick with selectively bred varieties in your veggie patches and stuff like wild mustard in your orchards, perennial beds, etc.
>>515283 Seems like a good idea if you have nearby flowing water. Can't say for sure as I know little about engineering
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>>515283 small water power stations are nice but they are a niche solution for places that have rivers, not really a substitute for solar or nuclear. can we use the nuclear powered mushrooms for something ?
>>515255 No. Permaculture isn't about "natural" farming. It's about designing agriculture as an ecosystem to make it more efficient. A GMO plant would be fine by permaculture unless there's something wrong with it. There are some wild plants that are worth growing, but those usually co-evolved heavily with humans or are "feral" i.e. domesticated species that re-entered the wild. >>515283 >What do you think about this Water Vortex system? Like another anon said, niche solution but cool. >Casadevall speculated that the fungi could be feeding on the radiation that contaminates the ruin of the nuclear reactor. Now we just need to teach them to eat plastic. >>515421 >can we use the nuclear powered mushrooms for something ? Getting rid of waste maybe. >>515284 The best time to plant a tree is 7 years ago. The second best time is today.
>>515283 >Could the melanin in human skin cells likewise turn radiation into food? Casadevall speculates that it might, Don't tell twitter or they'll think black people are radiation proof.
Can anything be done with myakka soil? I've tried planting stuff in it and nothing grows but weeds unless you surround it all with ready-dirt and that kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it
>>516878 Rule of thumb with poor soil is you want to build better soil. >I've tried planting stuff in it and nothing grows but weeds A weed is just a plant that you don't want. The plants you're seeing are what's called "pioneer" plants - they can grow in harsh, shitty conditions. In growing and dying they will help create new soil. That is the natural process. Over time more complex and massive plants grow as the soil accumulates. See pic. You can speed up the process (called succession) in various ways. >unless you surround it all with ready-dirt and that kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it No, this is one of the ways to speed up succession. You can bring in some soil, some compost, some mulch, i.e. the stuff to make soil. The point isn't to pull yourself up by your bootstraps but to use the resources available to you to build a sustainable system - one that eventually can keep going without you having to intervene much if at all. There's no ban on using technology or advanced resources. You just need to be aware of any technical drawbacks a particular method might have, like some fertilizers being low quality or something like that.
>>516892 >>516894 fucking webp
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What's wrong with my tomatoes? Is it bacterial canker? It's on the zucchinis too
>>518267 Try tapping the leaves with a piece of paper under it to see if any bugs fall off. Have you been adding a lot of fertilizer?
>>518267 It could be nitrogen burn if there's an excess of nitrogen, typically due to unripened manure or excess fertilizer. Fortunately, nitrogen can be easily washed out with water. If you suspect it is nitrogen burn, just run some water through the soil for a bit and they'll likely be okay
>>518273 I'm growing in 100% compost (which was a mistake, next time I'll mix with dirt) that I bought a truckload of, i dont know anything about it really it could have manure and be not quite finished. But these are transplants I bought from a walmart, plants I started from seed and planted out dont have this, although they are a lot smaller and younger so maybe it doesnt show up until later
>>518285 hmm... did you plant them in the like, pot/soil they came in? It was probably like miracle gro soil or something I bet. Try just running some water through them if that's the case.
>>518285 What part of world are you in anon? Here in Ottawa Ontario, I have to buy tomato plants from greenhouse, the season isn't long/warm enough to start from seed outside...
>>518306 Southeast US. Nice long season, but lots of things cant handle the heat of the summer
>>518298 I'm on day 4 of pretty much constant rain, if a good rinse is what it needs I should see improvement soon. The discoloration around the edges is only on the older lower leaves, which I read is typical of bacterial canker
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>>516892 >You just need to be aware of any technical drawbacks a particular method might have The main drawback is that it's expensive. I know all bout buying 1 bag and stealing 10 when they're outside and no one is looking but still. I should be more specific, the weeds that grow are actively harmful so i'd want to get rid of them. Spurs i think they're called. Stick to everything. The worst hurt but there's less annoying varieties. I don't want to just spread agent orange or whatever everywhere either cause I don't know if it'll give the dog cancer or something. Really getting rid of the bad stuff is more important than growing something there.
>>518708 You could probably get a truckload of woodchips dumped on your property for free, spread that nice and thick and all the plants should die and you'll be building really nice soil underneath, itll be pretty ugly though and kind of a lot of work
>>518743 Unless you're doing a massive plot it's all very little work actually, depending on what your soil is and what your plans are. Some things I recommend >1. Don't step on your soil, keep designated footpaths or steps and use them. >2. don't use pine, pine is antimicrobial and will fuck with your soil microbiome >3. Wood chips, manure, and used coffee grounds are all great for encouraging mushroom growth, which will suppress disease >4. If you have access to lots of non-pine wood and have either black soil or clay, look into doing Hugelkultures >5. Combat weeds and grass by introducing heavy ground cover crops(Cowpeas, clover, sweet potato) and planting aggressively reseeding plants with actual use value. Give the weeds competition in the form of aggressive plants that you can actually use.
I overcompensated for some failed initial plantings and now I seem to have started way too many eggplants and peppers Anybody have any ideas for what to do with spares
>>518988 Spare produce: donate/trade Spare plant matter: mulch/compost
>>518988 If you cant find people who want your peppers you could always dry/smoke them and grind them up into a nice seasoning
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>>518743 In addition to wood chips you can put down a layer of paper or cardboard (not chemically treated) to kill grass and weeds prior to everything else. You can put holes for the roots of things you plant, but the paper will biodegrade on its own. This allows you to kill off the existing plants without damaging the soil. Rule of thumb, if you have weeds growing that means you could be growing something there instead. Groundcover plants like strawberries or squash can be good to crowd out weeds and keep them from getting sun. You want to maximize your use of the space you have, both for production and for the health of the ecosystem. More biomass and biodiversity is better.
Joe Rogan Experience #1478 - Joel Salatin Over a million views, and they're talking about alternative agriculture including permaculture. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-7O3fOXXKo Seems like the corona crisis is inspiring people to consider different ways of doing things. Anecdotally I have friends and neighbors who are taking up gardening as well.
How would distribution work? Would proles be expected to harvest their food for themselves? Would there be some time of free farmer's market or home delivery of produce? What about the distribution of labor? Is this sustainable on a purely volunteer basis or would communities have to form organizations to manage maintenance and harvesting? Maybe the government takes this role? I'm a proponent of permaculture myself, but I never see a conversation that revolves around how exactly we are supposed to shape our communities to support it in the first place. As long as people are accustomed to the big box grocery store way of life, we have problems to overcome.
>>524226 This is largely up to the people implementing permaculture and the specific answer would depend on a lot of factors, like how densely people live. If you designed permaculture cities/towns from the ground up you could have it so every housing unit has a yard/garden producing for the inhabitants' needs and they don't have to do much more than go pick the food immediately before preparing it. More pragmatically we have to use some kind of transitional phase where we build the organizations. First step is to get started small with just you or you and a few others. Figure out what your capacity is with your resources, and build out from there. Connect to any existing permaculture organization in your area. Some people are going to be hesistant so try to get them in incrementally by suggesting easy-to-grow and easy-to-harvest food plants like radishes or sunflowers or already-popular garden plants like tomatoes.
>>523889 >He is a self-described "Christian libertarian environmentalist capitalist lunatic farmer" ...I mean, fuck it, even reactionaries can be good at things I guess. ...But still kinda ick
>>524557 I agree, and it raises the issue of how this topic develops at a macro level. That podcast episode has over a million views just on youtube.
>>515255 Not really, its more of an example of a plant that allows for a large variety of evolutionary paths
Just got some free tomato plants from my neighbor. Gonna give the extras to my friends who are gardening too. This is what sustainability looks like - getting more out than you put in.
Thank you to the anons in this thread. I have since set up my own garden. The books and charts will be a great help to me.
>>518743 getting free woodchips is dead easy. There's two websites I use, chip drop and mulchnet, got a truck of wood chips dropped off for free within a couple weeks.

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