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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

๐Ÿฆ… /USApol/ ๐Ÿ—ฝ United States Politics ๐Ÿˆ Anonymous 11/03/2020 (Tue) 05:12:01 No. 1065795
Edited last time by krates on 11/04/2020 (Wed) 00:37:28.
>>1168562 Honestly, if the socialist movement in the U.S. goes down this road of acting in an arrogant way towards people like the internet libertarians from a decade ago, it will be a tragic mistake, and that'd make me sad. It'll alienate more and more people until it whittles itself down to a small core of geeks who are convinced of their own intelligence and enlightenment even though they're not any smarter than anybody else, just full self-regard. I'll given Lenin and the Bolsheviks and the North Koreans credit for coming up with their own powerful myths to inspire people rather than just condescending down to them. https://youtu.be/34qrRwYwgb4
>>1168580 lurk moar
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>>1168570 Why couldn't have I been born in the post-scarcity future and this dreadful timeline just be a boring chapter I read in history class?
>>1168584 It definitely matters. It matters a lot. What tone the liberals take online matters after all, same with the conservatives. Socialists are not immune to any of this stuff. Or maybe you're right, and it's self-evident and obvious that you're right and you know what's best for everybody, and everyone else agrees. The libertarians thought that too.
>>1168570 Is he going to pick one off the street
>>1168591 >hot steaming cup of idealism
>>1168585 Someone has to build it.
>>1168580 Oh lordy, being called stupid is much less venom than I get most days of my life. The left's typical composition has a lot of problems with snideness and a willingness to accept scientism (and the stupidest forms of it, with all the usual screaming that people who argue with the dogmatic position DON'T FOLLOW THE SCIENCE OMFG). If you want to analyze the problem and solutions to it, you have to look at more than how you feel when someone calls you stupid. If you want a movement that's going to make you feel good, it's not going to feel good to learn just how horrible we have it. Speaking of Lenin, how did he inspire people? He didn't give them myths at all. Communists spoke openly of progress in a tangible way, and spoke of demands of the masses like the old peace/land/bread deal. After coming to power, the Communists placed their legitimacy on being competent rulers who brought you technology. Before communism, you had illiteracy and famine and asshole aristocrats. After communism, you have food and electricity and health care. It didn't work as well as the Communists hoped, but a few years of capitalism under Yeltsin was enough for Russians to realize they really should have loved communism after all. Of course, it was important to the USSR, like any state, to have legends and stories of great men, and so Lenin could enter the pantheon of Soviet greats and was made into the great visionary. I should also add that the "cult of personality" was not what Stalin created, if you actually look at the USSR at that time. Stalin was definitely promoted as a great leader, savior of Russia and all humanity, and there is no doubt Stalin made it clear he was the boss, but Stalin wasn't made into a living god or the son of heaven. Stalin wasn't even necessarily made into the ideological fountainhead of the state, the way Lenin was. Stalin had fiercely loyal partisans, that's how he was able to rise to power, and you're really going to praise Stalin if he's purging all political opponents and putting the country on notice. But, he wasn't really more psychopolitical than most dictators that ruled a country. It was made into a "cult of personality" by American propagandists, who had to declare anything that wasn't the Americans' own propaganda narrative to be the work of fanatics opposed to freedom. Hitler had a cult of personality, because shit like that is essential to Fascism. Mao had a cult of personality because he was freaking Mao, because Chinese rulers were traditionally heavenly despots and Mao promoting such fit with the traditional mindset, because Mao was cultivating the left wing in China as a power base and went against "the establishment" of his own party.
>>1168532 Elections simply will not be cancelled, and you can quote me on that. I keep saying the illusion of democracy is the most crucial factor on which the continued existence of America depends, and elections are easily the centerpiece of that illusion. Cancelling elections would make America as we know it to cease to exist and all bets would be off, and that's possibly Porky's worst doomsday scenario. Secession, collapse of the dollar, civil war, the whole nine years, because if a single one of those things, among others, happens, all the rest will follow. In fact, if events force him to choose between one of those things and ending elections, he will pick the former because the latter would cause the former and much, much more. Let me make a simple analogy. A pharaoh decides one day to make it known to the entire world that the whole thing about him descending from gods is bullshit and the return of the sun after each night is not his doing after all, it just happens, how crazy is that, right? Anyway, he's doing away with all the religious accoutrements and giving a rest with the incessant temple-building and putting a stop to all the offerings and sacrifices to the gods and a bunch of other helpful cost-saving measures. But that doesn't mean everyday life should have to change, so if the peasants would kindly keep giving him all their crops, paying their temple taxes as usual, providing livestock which now will no longer be slaughtered pointlessly and generally obeying his every whim and fancy like they always have done, that would be super, thanks and have a nice day. What do you think would happen?
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>>1168532 >Biden surrounding himself with deficit hawks and war hawks, and repudiating even the appearance of the Democrats' traditional populism, probably broke the back of a lot of Democrat support lol, no it won't, it's going to go back to the Obama years, with non-stop positive press coverage of Biden bludgeoning recalcitrant Democrats into apathy (if not compliance).
>>1168727 >Epstein
>>1168736 Uh um uh thank you Jennifer mossadberg...... where am I?????
>>1168714 The problem with the analogy is obvious - half of Americans already believe the election was rigged and flagrantly so. While people believing elections are rigged is nothing new - it was almost a running joke to talk about how Truman or Kennedy rigged elections, and Gore Vidal would even say outright that Truman stole 1948 blatantly - a whole lot of people, and not just Trump supporters - already have doubts about the legitimacy of any of this. CNN pretty much stating "this is not a coup" the moment Trump said it was rigged, and the reality that all of this seems like a tawdry drama, only heightens a lack of trust in the election and indeed the entire system. You already have a lot of paranoia about the "deep state" - which is not unfounded, because there are networks of foundations and influence behind the scene, and most of those networks aren't hidden. You also have a great deal of skepticism the more Biden announces his cabinet and his plans. You can already hear the groaning that Biden has vowed to lock down, months ahead of entering office, and there is no plan to offer Americans a stimulus or any compensation during the lockdown. You also have the Trump hardcores on the edge of civil war when their man is out of office, who have openly pined for Trump just doing a straight up coup. So already, the sanctity of elections and democracy is teetering on the edge of collapse, and those people who think the election was rigged - and I do believe it was not just rigged but very openly rigged - aren't going to be placated by another election. Is Biden going to be legitimately, Constitutionally the next president? Of course he is. The institutions and most of the government has already concluded that, rigged election or not. That he did pretty brazenly rig and still has legitimacy says enough. The liberals also believe (correctly) that Trump is treasonous and wholly illegitimate from the start, and that a coup would have been justified in removing him since 2017. Imagine how willing they would be for a coup if Trump actually decided to declare martial law and dissolve Congress (which won't happen). All the theatrics have led to more than half of the country perfectly happy for a coup, one way or the other, and that is pretty much in the open now. If large parts of the country would be ready to support a coup, and another large part doesn't give a shit what the politicians do, who exactly is still concerned with the sanctity of elections? Maybe you have a few principled people left, and you have people who just want normalcy out of fear of what would happen otherwise, but you're overestimating how much Americans - particularly Americans under the age of 40 - are interested in republican virtue. They've already gone over to believing that power is legitimizing, rather than the institutions themselves. And with all the power grabs that have been done through the institutions over the years, the overreach of the Supreme Court - for screamingly reactionary and anti-worker objectives - the institutions had already been losing much of their gravitas. Now you may say - well, maybe these institutions are gone, but most Americans still believe in democracy, right? They would have to have some other government with elections, surely? The rub, of course, is that what people believe is not so relevant once you say the Constitution is bunk. It would be possible to pass some sham elections, that are so managed that the outcomes are virtually guaranteed. But even with this, you have to remember the mass of the population under 40, and the ideas that are prevalent there. Of that group, only a minority even bothered to vote, and most non-voters are mildly offended at the notion that voting is at all legitimate. It's not just a matter of non-voting out of ignorance, or because they don't think they know enough to make a decision. The idea of democracy itself, of the idea that people should have a say in what rulers do, has been sullied so much. In a way, it was always like this, as American politics has always been an aristocratic shitshow. But the meme of meritocracy and technocrats has been so aggressively pushed that you have a lot of people, especially the politically active, who would prefer to limit the electorate and candidate pool along academic or intellectual lines. Just watch how many people will demand an IQ test for voting rights in the next year, and how stuff like that will be aggressively promoted. The propaganda machine is very, very capable of engineering movements into existence that give the apperance of popular support, or at least enough support to make the change pass through.
>>1168623 it is inevitable
>>1168748 Even after global nuclear genocide?
>>1168751 That will never happen lol
>>1168753 It is inevitable
>>1167109 Keep eternally agreeing about your delusions of "Muh Communist Revolution". Lol Tankies prefer to be raped by neoliberalism, then accept social democracy. But if you die from medical debt, you deserve it.
>>1167107 > "Direct Action" A pathetic rationalization by image board armchair "intellectuals" desperately trying to defend smashing windows, attacking people they don't like.
>>1168770 there's nothing wrong with either of those, cry harder faggot
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TRUMP RETWEETING SCHIZO CONSPIRACY WORDPRESS BLOGS THIS IS NOT A DRILL TRUMP RETWEETING SCHIZO CONSPIRACY WORDPRESS BLOGS https://themarshallreport.wordpress.com/2020/11/22/sidney-powells-kraken-is-dod-cyber-warfare-program-we-are-at-war/ https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump PIC RELATED SOME THINGS FROM THE ARTICLE
>>1168770 <NOOO YOU CANT START SHOOTING BACK AT THEM REEEEEE
>>1168570 He'll cause mass cope from the Dem base anyways. He could even appoint Trump as Defence Secretary, and the Democrat voters will lick Trump's shoe if Biden tells them too.
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>>1168770 every single rightoid and cop that has been beaten, stabbed, ran over, and shot deserved a thousand times worse.
>>1168775 nah a lot of libs i know irl didnt vote for biden bc they don't like him. bernie's loss was honestly great for the left because it completely disillusioned many people from electoralism
>>1168570 This is totally Joe Biden's brain worms talking. Poor war criminal. He really doesn't get what he just walked into, does he?
>>1168779 I can see the staff meeting now. All of Biden's war criminal hawks and slimy Obama advisors are telling Joe how dire the situation is, and Joe gets the sappy feel good idea that this is the 1990s and he can make everyone like him with some pandering. It's totally a Biden idea that he had himself, which I hope his staffed have talked him out of.
>>1168773 Ay lmao Posadism retweets when?
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>>1168747 >In a way, it was always like this Well you just self-deleted your argument. This is nothing new. I don't see any real organized challenge to the legitimacy of the system. There's no new, rival mode of production. No appreciable sign of weakening of the state's repressive functions. The local cops in my area don't seem to be any worse for wear. And Trump, who is supposed to be the guy to lead this coup, sent the order to begin the transition within 24 hours of his Wall Street backers ordering him to. That's obvious to us, or at least most of us, because we know that capital runs America and that's who the president works for, and maybe it's obvious to more people, but watch the Republican voting base immediately switch (and they already have) into sounding like liberals four years ago talking about respecting "norms" and "institutions" which the other party defiled through their illegitimate meddling in league with foreign powers. And the answer is to "restore legitimacy" or whatever formulation you like. But so what if large numbers of people would support a coup against the other side? Who's going to carry it out? The military? Please. Wall Street? Yeah, but they have already have. They did that a long time ago.
>>1168780 >which I hope his staffed have talked him out of. Why?
>>1168747 The fact that they think the election was rigged says absolutely nothing about them accepting their cancellation. If anything, it would make them even more prone to unrest because the sequence of events would look more concerted instead of coincidental. They're more disillusioned with the implementation of democracy they are now seeing than with it as a concept, in no small part because There Is No Alternative. You can't just do away with the only thing they have ever known without offering something acceptable, or that vacuum will create the collapse of America. Sure, the number of people who want to do away with any democracy completely is increasing, but very slowly and there's a long, loooooooong way to go before porkies can cancell elections without starting the domino effect I mentioned. I know that people are really apathetic and accepting entirely too much bullshit, but that apathy stems from perceived complete lack of alternatives, and that means fascism itself is not seen as an alternative. That's one of the peculiarities of this weird time, mass movements have trouble gaining ground. And I think acceptance of socialism is growing faster than that for fascism and similar reactionary dictatorships, tho that's not saying much.
>>1168821 Is it really though? Most people that I hang out with (mostly just nerds really) seem to be more accepting of fascism in all honesty. They think that the USSR was both evil AND incompetent while the Nazi Regime "made the trains run on time" and that's just the libs. Let alone the vast majority of people who consume media like Vtubers, pop culture shit and stuff. We will have celebrity worship at a level unseen before. Kanye West 2024, and then after that internet celebrities.
>>1168815 Programs of massive degrowth and economic contraction are not the way you do capitalism. If that is the objective of the ruling elites at this time, and there is a mountain of evidence to suggest that this is their goal, you would likely need a new form of government, and a dictatorial one, to enforce such a plan. Right now, Biden is the coup. Look at the sorts of people he is elevating, and the policies so far that are coming out. They're not interested in salvaging the republic, or capitalism, in a meaningful way. All a transition to dictatorship would have to do is to pass an Enabling Act to make it so, and appoint officers for the new dictatorship. They can say, see guys, it was approved by Congress (or some makeshift Constitutional Convention, and they can gather the votes for doing an Article V Convention if they want to give some Constitutional veneer to the transition). When Biden's first year policies make the economy scream again, and you start seeing store shelves empty again, you're going to see renewed calls for a government of action that is very much not for working families. Of course this doesn't preclude some faux-civil war faggotry as theater. If TPTB really engineer that horseshit though, and try to pass off Trumpism as some revolutionary movement, then they really REALLY hate us. I wouldn't put it past them to just throw away American lives over this horseshit, but the outcome of that would be an immediate dictatorship.
>>1168821 You don't get "democracy, but good" at this point though. You either get this rigged system, or you get dictatorship. There is no way, after all the work put into setting up the dictatorship, that you're going to have the ruling class say "okay, plebs, government's broken, let's have a Constitutional Convention and discuss this nicely and democratically". They have already gamed out a Constitutional Convention scenario and how to stack it with lobbyists. If the use the first constitutional convention as a model - and remember, the Constitution we love and cherish was literally written as a conspiracy against the public and pushed through against the will of any popular vote, because they had to figure out something to hold the country together - then this sort of outcome is virtually guaranteed, and you don't have any precedent or legitimacy to say the convention should be structured in some democratic way. If they even were to throw a sop to democracy in electing delegates, they'd set up a bunch of fake populist candidates who will rubberstamp whatever BigLaw and the goons write for them. Then you get to approve whatever legalese they give you, yes or no, and you're not going to actually get to say no; if they even bring it to the states' population for ratification, which they don't even have to do, all they need is the state houses to ratify. So, I'm not seeing how you think you're going to get "good democracy" unless you believe the ruling class are just that nice. They didn't spend all this energy stoking crisis after crisis deliberately, just to turn around and have democracy again. Of course, realistically, Bush already made us a police state with the Patriot Act, but the last vestiges of the democratic forms were left in place as the management of elections became increasingly draconian, the outcomes of races largely predetermined by political science and gerrymandering plus highly riggable voting machines and a lack of any auditing. But, that's not enough. As long as there are the forms of democracy, you can't do things like massive degrowth or eliminating the underclass in death camps, at the scale that the ruling class desires at present. That's the reason why you're getting a dictatorship, and why the political crisis is being escalated and the Trumpfaggots are being encouraged. Any country looking to save the republic would have deposed Trump immediately and cracked the skulls of anyone fool enough to join a Trumpista rebellion.
>>1168849 >They didn't spend all this energy stoking crisis after crisis deliberately, just to turn around and have democracy again. buddy I hate to tell you but they didn't need to stoke anything, this is just how weak and unstable capitalism is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KFKeOMDxC0 <George Floyd exhibition in Floridaโ€™s Holocaust museum sparks outrage >A Holocaust museum presents a new exhibition of the aftermath of George Floyd's assassination.
>>1168776 >Total dead: Two (?) Don't think there's been a gayer revolution/civil war
>>1168874 Well, the media actually stopped to report the # of deaths for the George Floyd protests, but the counter was around 20 people. Probably way more, and you can include these two.
>>1168835 Burger education, folks
>>1168853 Obama's solution to the last crisis was to draw it out and make it 10x worse, instead of doing the obvious thing and letting the banks fail. This solution, of course, was coordinated globally, but it was so monstrously unpopular that people vowed to never, ever again let a bailout happen. Needless to say, 2020 happens and they do exactly that, calling it "stimulus" instead of a blatant gift to the rich and scraps to the poor. What you really would have done to resolve the crisis would have been to not have a stupid crusade to conquer the world for Jesus, call for a full reorganization of corporate property in America, and guillotines for the bankers and CEOs who spent the prior 30 years running their operations into the ground. You know, you had to do socialism then, if it was at all possible. It wasn't, for a lot of reasons. Capitalism hasn't been "weak and unstable" ever since central banks became a thing. Modern exploitation has brought the monied classes wealth hand over fist, has the whole world in its grasp, and all losses are socialized and placed on the commoner. But that was not enough for them; they saw all that property the commoners held on to, and it was just TOO MUCH for the ruling class that the ungrateful plebs had shit and didn't worship their masters like good serfs. Even the worship that the serfs give their masters, and it is very profuse, was not enough. So enough fraud and incompetence was allowed to build up, and Bush launched a stupid Hitlerian war in the Middle East, and poor people were given loans for homes they had no business receiving, and eventually that has to lead to a run on the banks. This shit had been trialed in the old Savings and Loan scandal, and they got away with plundering private pension plans right in the open. Why not rob people of their homes and jack up property values, and throw hundreds of millions of people around the world out of work because they're all useless eaters and superfluous after all? The literally everything of 2008 was preventable, or at least could have been mitigated if the American state or global institutions were interested in preserving capitalism long-term. It probably would have required them to accept something like socialism and an end to the profit motive, but given the deference for the ruling class at that point in history, they probably could have shown some humanity and kept their positions of power without mass genocide and expropriation. The whole point of the crisis, like the current crisis, is mass expropriation of the useless eaters. In the current crisis, the useless eaters include those capitalist firms that are no longer useful and are not oligarchic, after Obama and Friends engineered the crash to be favorable to the oligarchs. Like 2008, 2020 was at least somewhat preventable, although Obama made damn sure we were going to have another crash when he did his thing. That something would happen was likely inevitable, especially when Trump did his part to run America and the world into the ground. That we have political leaders openly espousing mass starvation, eugenics, degrowth, and every other piece of Malthusian rot, who seem positively thrilled at the millions of people who are already dying from this crisis, is the crisis being engineered to inflict maximum damage.
>>1168853 Additionally, the very deliberate promotion of Trump, and the way his faggotry is tolerated and enabled, is the definition of "stoking crisis". The rulers of America WANT a political crisis, so that energy is sucked into the useless Trumptard movement and a base of fascist fags like Proud Soys can be mobilized. It is no accident of the market that the ruling class went for this strategy, and the country has degenerated so much that the easiest layup in the world - Trump is a fascist and his Nazi allies should be ruthlessly exterminated - becomes unmentionable.
>>1168153 Holy shit, people actually gave their SSN to parler. Whoever broke into the site probably has them now
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someone probably already did it but fuck it
>>1168887 >the country has degenerated so much that the easiest layup in the world - Trump is a fascist and his Nazi allies should be ruthlessly exterminated - becomes unmentionable. It's unmentionable because of the awkward reality that the same could be said of Obama and many other prior presidents
>>1168773 That second pic is amazing, looks like the king of RTS vidya.
>>1168153 Why are there no threads on /pol/?
>>1168770 what's wrong with attacking people i dont like
>>1168153 imagine being a boomer giving away your SSN to own those LIBTARD, only to end up getting your profile hacked and possibly doxxed.
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>>1168939 Are we thinking the same thing?
>>1168997 10/10 RTS Still play it from time to time, wish I had more people for multiplayer.

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