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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

Unpopular Opinions Anonymous 10/16/2020 (Fri) 23:47:21 No. 1006777
Unpopular opinion thread because I don't see any I'll start: people can be Marxist without reading theory, not everyone has time to obsessively read over every book with the word communism (and I read theory)
>>1038880 (me) i do think the womanhating bits have gotten old tho
>>1038873 LGBT is anticapitalist cause the world is not just the (((first-world))). Let us not forget that while the social consequences of capitalism in the developed nations have ameliorated and in some cases lifted the burden of injustice from the shoulders of lgbt peeps in half if not more of the world being lgbt is a death sentence (not to mention the countries where if it's not a death sentence per se but it's realistic to expect a level of stigma that's definitely damaging to ppl's lives, Slavic countries, some southern European countries, parts of burgerland, japan and south Korea). These discriminations are a reimagining or a paint of coat put onto to class struggle. If people didnt live alienated from their labor, from the society they live in, from themselves and their sense of humanity they wouldn't do these things, it wouldn't occur to them to do it. Capitalism makes us live in a world of envy, frustration, injustice, discontent, and dehumanization. Maybe the day will come when even under capitalism porky will find a way to alter this state of affairs and make discrimination due to sexual orientation or race non-existent, but until that day it is an anticapitalist struggle.
>>1006777 actual revolutionary activity will never be truelly class concius and thats why it can succed Some times it will hide behind anti imperialism, other behind proggress , some times even behind new and weird religious sects
my opinions: >max blumenthal and co are grifters >russia and china might not be as bad as america, but they're sure as hell fucking trying to be >racism and sexism are intertwined with capitalism >proles are "woker" than you think >the alphabet agencies are everywhere but they're nowhere near as competent or powerful as people make them out to be >9/11 trutherism is retarded and probably funded by the saudis >there was probably russian interference in the 2016 election but it literally doesn't fucking matter because everyone interferes and spies on everyone else anyway >going back to my last point the lib obsession with "national security" and "american interests" is retarded. the american government has never been meant to protect or work for the people >there's no need to do "outreach" to different groups in society, if we organize irl and do direct action people will join in and bring their own ideas into the mix (i.e. that christian socialism faggotry)
>>1038909 Based. Adding to this, the world is made for heteros. Even in the first world in the most progressive of places, you are still othered by society.
>>1038950 hey basic logic is that you?
>>1038909 >If people didnt live alienated from their labor, from the society they live in, from themselves and their sense of humanity they wouldn't do these things, it wouldn't occur to them to do it. Because people were oh so tolerant of lgbt in feudalism.
>>1038965 People were alienated also during feudalism just through very different means
>>1006902 How are you suggesting people live then?
>>1009347 >2) We need communism so badly
Socialism is very close to being fucked all the time. There is nothing stopping a Marxist-Leninist State from degenerating into revisionism, and once it has, state powers will then fight to preserve the revisionist policy. Also, existing in a world dominated by capital and neoliberalism stacks the deck against leftist movements from the start, and I won’t be surprised if China doesn’t become “socialist” until well after 2050, if it doesn’t abandon it. If and when capital collapses completely and irreversibly, the anarchists probably could make their stateless societies, but Porky will destroy us with nuclear hellfire by then.
>>1039125 Our fates are in the hads of the Gods The future has already happened, we are just waiting for the experiance to hit us like the rawrs of thunder being heard after you see the lighting
>>1039137 hands*
>>1012374 >We would need a state dating and coop hookers program in socialism to cope with the sexual power disbalance and gender disbalance in general
>>1012374 Tinder... but socialist. Shut the fuck up uighur.
Unpopular opinion: We should allow idpol threads. Classism is obfuscated in modern society, and many people only realize "something's fucked" due to misogyny, racism, homophobia, or some other oppression not obviously linked to capitalism. If you honestly want to radicalize folks, start with where they're at! Allow idpol discussions and how these various oppressions exist to uphold class society and the domination of the investor(bourgeois) class.
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"Pinochet" is a slur
Obsession over purity (especially in the form of "anti-revisionism") is the single worst thing to happen to socialism. Ever since the Soviet Union rose up, the left has been plagued by thinly-veiled idealists hopped up on "ideological purity" constantly undermining the socialist cause. >"Got cucked out of the party leadership? Whelp, better go run off to Mexico and split the entire global communist movement in half, wasting an absurd amount of resources." >"Soviets being a bit too controlling over me? Whelp, I'll just team up with Egypt and India instead, certainly they'll stand by me instead of letting me fall to liberal drone-strikes!" >"Khrushchev is too liberal? Whelp, better go split the communist movement in half, and build a policy of supporting America, Pol Pot, and the Mujahideen!" >"The Soviets invaded wholesome Czechoslovakia? Waaaaah, I'm gonna break off all ties to them and become little more than Labor Party confidence-suppliers." >"The nation I joined with in breaking against the USSR has just turned revisionist as well? Whelp, even if it will essentially leave me helpless, fuck it, I'm gonna diplomatically isolate myself and put the future of my people in jeopardy just so my ideology remains untainted." >"The peasants and trade unions don't follow my exact form of Marxism? Guess I'd better go slaughter them so I have no allies in the face of the American-backed government." And so on. Every time the left decides that theoretical purity matters more than actual pragmatic success, the global proletariat suffers immensely. Just look at Mao: even if he happened to have the better theory, and even if Khrushchev sucked, you still shouldn't throw an autistic bitch-fit and split the entire global communist movement in half. That's obviously terrible realpolitik, and as we saw in China's pro-US policy, led to communists killing each other to the joy of capitalism worldwide. Idc if Mao's grievances were valid, you just don't fuck over your nominal ally cuz "muh revisionism". Keep in mind, too, that these ideological splits have a real, human cost, with millions (probably billions at this point) dying because you fucks cared more about fitting Marx's ideal vision than actually implementing a successful socialist government. Just imagine what the world would be like now, if we didn't have these autistic splitters wasting resources and dividing global socialism. The Soviet system could have stretched from Dalmatia to Hong Kong, from Lima to Tirana, but no, fuck having a far greater supply of resources and manpower, let's all fight each other because Moscow doesn't "have the correct line". And now look, you guys got your wish, you got to have your special little internationales and splits, and in return, we saw communism weak and divided in the face of capitalism and imperialism, and now we live in a neoliberal hellscape. I hope your theory-obsession was worth it. The worst part is that you fucks still haven't learned, even as we already saw socialism get massacred. Even now, when we see an anti-imperial struggle in Bolivia or Syria, you still see tons of leftists be like "Stop defending reactionaries, they're not socialist." Well guess what, we had socialist states to defend at one point, but your ideologically-pure predecessors let those states fail, so now you've gotta live in a world where reactionary anti-imperialism is the best we've got. And even still, you see tons of people, even on here, entirely abandon AES. "They still have commodity production!" "China has corporate investments!" "Vietnam uses markets!" Ok, and? Do you retards still not realize that letting imperfect socialism (or even just capitalist anti-imperialism) fall is just going to continue to bolster capitalism? Are you really going to let billions of people suffer just because it's not your "based Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Hoxhaist-Gonzaloist paradise"? Do you ideological purists really never learn from history? Don't you think it's telling that even China, the chief champion of anti-revisionism at one point in time, has since changed its mind and mended its differences with states like Laos and Cuba? I'm not saying we can't have standards, nobody's asking you to defend ISIS or anything, but if we are to survive, we need to set aside our theoretical slapfights and realize that a desperate pragmatism is the only way to survive against the most bleakly reactionary era since 1917. tldr; Support AES as well as anti-imperialist reaction (yes, that includes China and Russia respectively). Of course a more pure socialism would be preferable, but you abstaining support from these nations is only going to help global capitalism. Just be glad that we still have socialist nations to defend, because if you guys let these nations fall too because they don't fit your litmus test of socialism, we won't have anymore socialist states (even "social-imperialist" states) for a LONG time.
>>1039281 Pinochets of color
>>1012374 just have sex lmao
>>1009347 >even the most pessimistic scientist say it will take 1000 years for all the icecaps to melt here, . , you dropped your decimal point https://www.mdpi.com/2225-1154/8/1/15/htm it takes more assumptions to suggest that porky is orchestrating a crisis than it does to say porky is taking advantage of it
>>1039279 >due to misogyny, racism, homophobia unpopular opinion, these things do not exist in 2020
>>1039384 taking a wild guess: you're a straight white neckbeard?
>>1039412 >straight no >white yes >neckbeard i shave 1/3 correct, that's a F
>>1039384 Somebody's clearly never been to Burgerland, or at least never been outside the big cosmopolitan states
>>1039384 Are you mentally ill?
>>1039425 >i shave a cosmetics industry cuck I see
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>>1039384 Because they never did?
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>>1006777 This is true. One must only read 'dialectical and historical materialism' and let the light of Great Stalin into your heart, for he is the dialectic made flesh.
>>1039436 I've lived here all my life, women, minorities, and gays are trated perfectly fine, if you think the US or any first world country has a racism/sexism/homophobia problem your chasing after ghosts
>>1039505 Based
>>1039510 are you any of those things?
Unpopular Opinion: I've never read any theory. Care to suggest a Comrade some to start with?
>>1008535 Imagine having aspirations!
>>1039778 Critique of the Gotha Program, the Manifesto, and Socialism: Utopian and Scientific should give you a good basis from which you can start Kapital
>>1039773 the ruling class clearly does not care about your identity, the capitalist system does not care about your identity, and if resistance to them does care about identity then that resistance is shooting it's self in the foot by doing so
>>1006777 There is no reason to not vote, unless you live in a complete shithole where you have to stand in line for 9 hours (which granted describes a significant portion of the US). It's not even remotely the end-all be-all but it's still a form of power you have, especially in local elections. Not voting is just surrendering that power for no reason, and is not a form of "protest" by any means (nobody cares if you don't vote). (this is an unpopular opinion on /leftypol/)
>>1040257 it takes time that i could be spending sleeping
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>>1006777 Someone who is ignorant of Marxist theory beyond what some demagogue claims is Marxism, and they can end up following an ideology that has nothing in common with Marxism, and can not properly be called Marxism. Being ignorant of theory is the mark of the lumpenproletariat, and they can be easily lead to support dictators who occasionally parrot off some socialist sounding buzzwords as a smoke screen to cover up their fascism, which the ignorant lumpen is too ignorant to recognize even if they saw it due to their lack of understanding of theory, these are the idiots who will unironically defend Nazism as a socialist ideology because it has the word socialist in its name. I would say that at the barest of bare minimum a person should read Capital before they can be a real Marxist rather than a Lumpen follower who just so happens to be following Marxism for now by sheer blind luck rather than good judgement. Knowing the minimum set of theory will inoculate a person against being lead astray and into an ideology that is not Marxism.
What happens happens, I'm very fatalistic. I find it hard to believe we will change anything that wasn't always going to end up like that.
>>1008590 >There is very little intersection between the idpol causes and class struggle. The paraphrase Martin Luther King, the greatest impediment to black liberation isn't liberals, but anti-idpol leftists who paternalistically lay out the timetable for oppressed minorities liberation. All of your revolutions have failed except two. And those two places are some of the most miserable and poorest places to live on earth. There's no good reason to ignore idpol struggles like racial equality, except to preserve the comparative advantage that colonist whites have over their neo colonial subjects. Sorry /leftypol/ you sound like rabid racists to anyone outside your hug box. Myself have my family have suffered mightily due to racial discrimination. My illegal immigrant grandfather worked the fields for 30 straight years with only Christmas off doing hard labor that would break the body and mind of every single anon here in less than an an hour. And no, it wasn't because he was a worker. Of the millions of people that have suffered that, telling them they have to wait for revolution is just going to sound to them like all the liberals that tell them to wait for the next election before they can expect any change. So to all you anti-idpolers on this board, I deliver a hearty FUCK YOU from everyone that's materially suffered racial oppression.
>>1008617 >Why don't you think this board will hit old /leftypol/ numbers? The mods, as dumb as the old BO was, at least he only allowed his single political perspective to be imposed on the board. Now every single mod is enforcing a grab bag of pet issues and reactionary views. This makes /leftypol/ scatterbrained editorially and more like a social club than a political board. Can't tell you how many times I've been told to shut up about something because I didn't know this or that board personality. This drives away people. Also the mods and their bootlickers are humorless gits and ruin any fun that they don't 100% agree with. For the board to grow the mods would have to moderate in a way that allowed for far more topics and bantz.
>>1009377 based
>>1039279 Lol, the only thing an idpol thread will do is make /leftypol/ seem more like /pol/ when all the latent racists get triggered by the idea that hmmmm maybe white workers do have a hand in the oppression of black workers.
Patriarchy does not, and never did exist when you consider the majority of slaves throughout history all the way into today have been men.
>>1006777 True unpopular opinion: China is beacon of hope and will achieve communism before everybody else.
>>1007377 Wow, thanks for this analysis anon. It's the best explanation on why liberals have been so obsessed with LGBT issues lately. I always assumed it was to take all the oxygen from black liberation which poses a genuine threat to up ending the capitalist order. I still think that may be secondary, but you put forth is probably predominate. I also had no idea that the AIDS epidemic took the lives of 1/3 of gays at the time. But wouldn't this imply that 1/3 of gays are lumpen? That doesn't seem right since everything I've read suggests that gays are actually among the most productive and highly educated workers.
>>1006844 Patriotism can morph into fascism just as easily
>>1039339 BASED post

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