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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion.

IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan
https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=bunkerchan

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/deplatform/ Anonymous 08/18/2019 (Sun) 01:25:11 No. 32838 [Reply]
is deplatforming radlib bullshit, or does it work? is it dangerous to allow deplatforming (esp of a platform like 8ch) because its used on the fash today but will be used on lefties tomorrow? what is /leftypol/'s thoughts on deplatforming and free speech?
54 posts and 14 images omitted.
>>35106
>>35076
>>35081
And another thing, you fucking libtards:

People are not blank slates to be writ upon by whoever has the best rhetoric. We come into a conversation with existing biases, the most important of which are our material conditions. About as big a factor in an argument being convincing as exposure is how well the argument addresses people's material conditions and real lives. The notion that somehow the fascists and reactionaries just can argue better than us (imagine this level of internalized cuckoldry) is based on how well their arguments have fared against their liberal opponents, not their socialist ones. Right-wingers beat libs in arguments because they have criticisms for liberalism that liberals simply do not have answers for. Socialists do. In fact we agree with a lot of the criticisms (pointing out how the system fails people), and go further to recognize more of the failures, which is to say that socialist arguments are effective for similar reasons that fascist arguments are, except moreso because the possible problems to point out are broader. The right wing talks about how poverty impacts white people (or other groups - ethnic nationalist idpol is right-wing either way), while socialists can speak to all of those problems. What's more, instead of some vague appeals to spooks like nationality or honor, socialists can explain directly how these problems stem from capitalism, how a different system would be better, and how we can get from point A to point B. There is simply a much stronger case to be made from a socialist perspective. This is trivially obvious to anybody passingly familiar with the history of socialism and winning people over, or with the arguments themselves.

If you want to stop right wingers from getting dunked on as publicly as possible, you're de facto a liberal because you're working in service of the status quo. And beyond that, the failure of liberalism to refute fascism, having to resort to censorhips or deplatforming etc demonstrates that they have no answer for the real problems the right wing sees (but misdiagnoses). The right succeeds when the left doesn't step up to combat them and provide an alternative. Shooing the right wing away doesn't help that cause, and in the long run it legitimizes the establishment's power to lump us in the same boat as also a threat to their hegemony. If you show people socialists destroying the right wing where liberals couldn't, you put the liberals in the position of having to confront your ideas even just as a defense against the far right.
>>35106
>Dude exposure lmao!
Get-a-load of this idealist CAM

How about those 4 German general elections prior to Novemeber 1933, eh?
>>35125
If you avoid confronting people and playing out the conflict until the point of elections then you are fucked.

That's really kind of the point here. Dialectically, these ideological and material conflicts are already here. They exist and they have to play out. (publicly) Silencing the far right doesn't move toward a resolution, it merely causes the conflict to stagnate. If you let the conflict fester and it seeps into the political machine, the conflict playing out is going to happen with one side or the other wielding the power of the state. If you play out the conflict in the social sphere before then you can avoid much greater violence.

>Dude exposure lmao!
>Germany
I'm talking about how we need exposure, not the fascists. I'm talking about how we need to expose the fascists to our ideas. You're literally just seeing one word and making sweeping assumptions about what I'm saying. Try having an argument above the level of a manchurian candidate.
>>35121
>accuse opponents of being liberals
>utter the phrase "material conditions"
>proceed to spew idealism
See >>33140
>>35144
>I'm talking about how we need to expose the fascists to our ideas.
Do you even know how fascists think?

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Anonymous 08/12/2019 (Mon) 19:44:03 No. 25506 [Reply]
Is angola in anyway socialistic today?
16 posts and 3 images omitted.
Not only did the former president's family, most notably his daughter, pocket money while people starved on the streets, they then used the money to go invest in foreign corporations

I know I see you guys sometimes take, to me, bizarre positions of insisting the PRC is socialist and whatever but I kinda get it- but if I see anyone go "Angola's socialist" I'll pop a blood vessel
>>26270
You know, some of us are shitposting.
Even so, I would still support it over UNITA, America, or South Africa taking over the country.
Support the Chad protests against wahabbi imperialism.
>>25913
Or War Communism
>>25506
Begs the question, what's with all these MLs abandoning Marxist-Leninism, and going back to collecting IMF money?
>>33079
First, ambition. You can see that in the careerist of the former Warsaw Pact or the guys in Central Asia.
Second, new global order, without the SU you have lost the best ally you could have. And the protection and trade.
That's why the Cubans had the «special period» or the NK the famines lf the 90's.

Fucking Gorvachov

Also, see how is Venezuela because of overdependence in oil and sanctions...imagine that with Kazajistan or Angola or Mozambique :(

Why do communists want to outlaw porn? Anonymous 08/18/2019 (Sun) 16:33:57 No. 33520 [Reply]
Did none of you have a widowed grandfather? Can you not feel any empathy for old and ugly widowed 80-90 year olds who need to masturbate to late night TV shows?
434 posts and 67 images omitted.
>>35027
Isn't that what incels argue? That the have some kind of moral right to pussy?
>>35031
Other sexual dynamics as well. Body type is just one example.
>>33729
>>33731
>>33743
>>33751
Moralism aside, while most workers are exploited economically, porn actors and actresses are exploited both economically and sexually, because not only do they not receive the full amount of compensation that they should be entitled to for their labour, they also need to perform sexual acts not consensually but out of the need to survive in capitalism. Only amateur porn created for the explicit purpose of entertainment/art without a need for a financial return is free of exploitation and oppression.
>>35029
Where did I say that? I want an egalitarian society.
>>35032
No, that is what liberals strawman with their "entitlement". The point is that people want to have their basic needs met and those who think it's more important for those who already have it good to have it even better instead of helping those who have nothing are enemies.
Take it to the idpol thread, incel ideology shit.
Closing because thread revolved into idpol bullshit.

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anarchism to marxism Anonymous 08/14/2019 (Wed) 10:46:36 No. 27800 [Reply]
EFFORT POST / STORY
anarchism to marxism
TLDR: anarchists ask why I don’t like anarchism – long story short I was an anarkiddie and became marxist.

I have a lot of anarchists ask why I hate anarchism. The short answer is I don’t. No, it’s just that I am tired of it because I’ve seen it before, lived it, and moved on. the reason the anarkiddie meme is so popular is that a LOT of people have had an anarchist 'phase' as teens and young adults (17->23ish), but later moved on to Marxism. It's typically the case that 80%+ of people move on from anarchism after college/university as they either get good jobs and become milquetoast middle class liberals, or become full Marxists as they advance in theory. For intellectually curious people, anarchism doesn’t really offer that much because there is far less anarchist theory than Marxist theory, especially when it comes to economics. Even people who claim to be anarchist usually say they believe in Marx’s labor theory of value (ex: Anarchopac, the anarchist youtuber, says she is a ‘marxist AND an anarchist’ i.e. they like malatesta and hate AES but can’t deny Marx’s analysis so she shits on the parts of Marx/Engels writing where they dunk on anarchism). The only distinctive anarchist economic theory is either long dead and debunked (proudhon) or crypto ANCAP like Carson.

For me, the conversion came slowly after reading the anarchist FAQ, which was a faq a bunch of anarcho-commies made while debating ancaps online. Reading through the economics sections, they quotes a bunch of left and socdem economists like Kropotkin, Keen, Robinson, and even Keynes, but overall 50%+ of the quotes were from Marx, Marx, Marx (Its still online you can read it and confirm this yourself). I thought to myself if the only answers anarchism can give on economic questions are by quoting Marx, why not skip the middle man and go directly to the source?

Over years I gradually called myself a libertarian marxist, then just a Marxist, then eventually a Marxist-Leninist, then a heterodox marxist (cybernetic). Like many young people who grew up in the west, I was taught that communism was evil, that it killed the gorillions, and that it completely failed. I was given no counter narrative to this and hadn’t read enough sources to give a more nuanced appraisal of the USSR and china. Not to say that ‘Stalin did nothing wrong’, which is the overcorrection phase. But to realize both the positive and negative aspects of the USSR, and how to build on those lessons and failures to create a better form of political economy in the future.

I realized the only reason I was an anarchist is because I believed in socialism and the ideals of workers control of the means of production, but I was still spooked by the lies I had been told about socialism in the USSR, etc. and I wanted a way to advocate socialism without being hit with the gorillions argument which I didn’t know how to counter (I gave the ‘not real socialism’ argument which is so widely mocked). This is still the phase where 90%+ of anarcho-lolis on twitter are at
94 posts and 33 images omitted.
>>33380
>The fuck is that?
twitter anarcho-liberals who have anime avatars
I have a lot of tankies ask why I hate tankies. The short answer is I don’t. No, it’s just that I am tired of it because I’ve seen it before, lived it, and moved on. the reason the tankie meme is so popular is that a LOT of people have had an tankie 'phase' as teens and young adults (17->23ish), but later moved on to Anarchism. It's typically the case that 80%+ of people move on from tankie after college/university as they either get good jobs and become milquetoast middle class liberals, or become full Anarchists as they advance in theory. For intellectually curious people, marxism doesn’t really offer that much because there is far less marxist theory than Anarchist theory, especially when it comes to economics. Even people who claim to be marxist usually say they believe in Kropotkin's bread theory of value (ex:blah blah i care about youtubers). The only distinctive marxist economic theory is either long dead and debunked (stirner) or crypto AUTHORITARIAN like Kissinger.

For me, the conversion came slowly after reading the communist manifesto, which was a faq a bunch of anarcho-commies made while debating ancaps online. Reading through the economics sections, they quotes a bunch of left and socdem economists like Kropotkin, Keen, Robinson, and even Keynes, but overall 50%+ of the quotes were from Marx, Marx, Marx (Its still online you can read it and confirm this yourself). I thought to myself if the only answers marxists can give on economic questions are by quoting Marx, why not skip the middle man and go directly to the source?

Over years I gradually called myself a libertarian snake, then just a Anarchist, then eventually a Gigantic-Faggot, then a heterodox idiot (cybernetic). Like many young people who grew up in the west, I was taught that anarchism was evil, that it killed the gorillions, and that it completely failed. I was given no counter narrative to this and hadn’t read enough sources to give a more nuanced appraisal of the EGO and it's property. Not to say that ‘Stirner did nothing wrong’, which is the overcorrection phase. But to realize both the positive and negative aspects of the EGO, and how to build on those lessons and failures to create a better form of political economy in the future.

I realized the only reason I was an tankie is because I believed in socialism and the ideals of workers control of the means of production, but I was still spooked by the lies I had been told about literal spooks in the EGO, etc. and I wanted a way to advocate idiocy without being hit with the gorillions argument which I didn’t know how to counter (I gave the ‘not real socialism’ argument which is so widely mocked). This is still the phase where i still use twitter and am being spied on constantly for free
>>33369
"Cloud" is a stupid term, just because the anon you berated mischaracterized the cloud somewhat doesn't make you right. You dumbass webdevs make all these distinctions between physical servers and "the cloud" when there really isn't any materially. You ARE renting servers ultimately, but yes as someone that understands microservice architecture it's a little daft to necessarily describe it in the same way as simply renting physical hardware.
> or organizations that are large enough and have enough money to run their own private cloud (ex: Target using Openstack) or private datacenter (ex: government organizations, etc. with legacy apps and million$+ budgets)
Here is an basically an omission that AWS et al ARE just renting hardware if government's and large corporations can setup their own cloud.
Also plenty of smaller and medium size organizations have their own cloud, it not that hard to do. What Amazon, Microsoft and other cloud providers provide is time to market.
Dumb webdevs like you can make huge piles of spaghetti code that will collapse under it's own weight in under 3 years and require an entirely new revision, so you can push your shitty slow app a few day before the competition.
You know that the Apollo space lander was programed with code that could fit on less than 1MB, yet 20 years after the dot com bust websites are slower and have zero added utility that their fore-bearers had, just prettier graphics.
>to think all this autism started because you literally didn't want to use the word cloud,
He's not the only one dipshit. And if you're not some shitty web dev pushing out bloated software every quarter 90% of people can do what the cloud providers do with colocation.
If sure as fuck got on anon's case for being dumb, but your web dev job is outsourced to Indian's that have 3rd grade levels of education.
>>33617
lol you tried to invert it
>>33369
>uh, renting physical servers is certainly not what "90%" of the cloud is used for,

I put cloud in quotes.
Yes, the term is used without real discrimination between IAAS and bare metal. They literally just use it to describe hosting.

>It's funny because you think oracle cloud is even remotely relevant in a world where AWS, GCP, azure exist.

I'm not arguing that the term "bare metal cloud" is "legit." I'm arguing that the professional usage of "bare metal cloud" emphasizes how meaningless the actual IRL usage of "cloud" is.

>Anyway if you want to continue this conversation start a thread in /tech/ but almost all of your statements supremely cringeworthy to anyone who actually works in tech.

I actually know they aren't. Also lol @ you saying you worked for Oracle and insisting they're irrelevant and shitty, when the guy I knew who worked for Amazon agreed that the term "cloud" was a goofy buzzword. I guess he outranks you according to the hierarchy of relevant "clouds," doesn't he? ;>)

>even though thats what everyone else fucking does,

They actually don't, though.

Message too long. Click here to view full text.


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San-Francisco murals controversy Anonymous 08/19/2019 (Mon) 11:35:06 No. 34650 [Reply]
Ive been reading alot about the recent controversy about the murals that depict George Washington's life and honestly idk why would people want it to be removed, to remove the murals is to quite literaly deny the fact that the most prominent founding father was both a slaver and a genocider. Ive seen people say that it gives s bad representation of history and rather it glorifies those 2 awfull traits of washington and that its a love letter to the perspective of the colonizers; but woudent it be even more alienating to natives americans and african americans to deny in their face that those who founded the nation they live in where both slavers and killers? Do you guys think that this whole "deny colonialism" sorta stuff has gone too faar and its just alienating people from their own real history? ( even more of a controversy is the fact that the murals where painted by a communist)
2 posts omitted.
idolizing washington is alienating people from their own "real" history
I'll post a link since OP has not done so:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/07/23/whitewashing-american-history-the-wpa-mural-controversy-in-san-francisco/

And yeah, it's bullshit. The pricetag to cover the murals reeks the most - it really looks to me like a way for the superintendent to give out lucrative projects to his crooked ring of cronies.
>>34656
When it's a rich kid with an iPhone who is virtue signaling? Yes.
>>34650
it's retarded idpol shit, you have to be a total ignorant braindead faggot to think a commie artist celebrate slavery
radlibs all deserve the wall, they can't even respect people that agree with them the fucking retards
LOL the floor wall is lava

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Socialist art Comrade 08/10/2019 (Sat) 14:43:23 No. 21938 [Reply]
Post cool socialist paintings, statues, music, and other art.
Also, I'd appreciate if anyone could vectorize pic related; I want to hang it on my wall.
81 posts and 171 images omitted.
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>>21938
>I'd appreciate if anyone could vectorize pic related; I want to hang it on my wall.
.SVG files are not allowed as an upload comrade
Do it yourself with inkscape
https://inkscape.org/
https://youtu.be/CQvoKXdVUuo
Does anyone have a lithuanian version of this?

(290.49 KB 720x443 1515028256140.png)
LE SIEGE MEME Anonymous 08/18/2019 (Sun) 03:27:51 No. 32934 [Reply]
what is your opinion on SIEGE?
Does it have any value or is just righties baby steps into revolutinary action?
How does it compare to the works of left revolutionaries of the past?
Or is just one huge fed honeypot?
30 posts and 9 images omitted.
>>33349
Lol, gay
>>33425
>Muh soggy knees, muh gays

Even if you don't believe in God you're still going to hell
>>34257
>>34260
alright fascist
>>34260
Why do nutsacs and fundies obsess over penises and gay sex?
(148.98 KB 850x400 gorky.png)
>>34432
cause they are two sides of the same coin

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Why do you follow the ideology that you follow? Anonymous 08/14/2019 (Wed) 11:08:31 No. 27818 [Reply]
Why do you follow the ideology/tendency that you follow? What led you to realising said ideology/tendency was the correct one and what led you to dismiss other ideologies?
52 posts and 8 images omitted.
>>33825
I wish you and your 3000 ideologically pure friends good luck in the upcoming revolution.
>>33842
Why compromise on your principles when you can send those with incompatible principles to the frontline?
>>33843
Huh? I never said compromise. I said since we can't solve our differences, on the left, peacefully we may well just kill each other now, and then worry about concentrating power when there's no opposition left - each to its own. And, we shouldn't moralize over this, yeah? We should have no qualms with taking hostages, shooting hostages...Romanov style and all that jazz. I'm not really worried about the right at the moment because I know they want me dead, and fake friends make the worst enemies, you know. I rather just deal with it that way.
>>27818
Marxism, because it departs from a scientific method of analysing the world and provides the correct conceptual tools to start improving it.
"Identifying" as something more specific than that (Maoist, Trot, Left-Com) is generally LARP and counterproductive.
>>34583
>Identifying as something more specific than that (Maoist, Trot, Left-Com) is generally LARP and counterproductive
plain old "Marxism" leaves a lot to be desired in actually applying revolution to the real world. the very reason ideoloigies come about is because of the conditions we face, and to see what is the most effective way to create and safeguard socialism. they don't just magically appear and conflict with each other over nothing, and implying that all these different sects of leftism are "LARP and counterproductive" is not only ignoring the very reason we develop theories and challenge them, but just makes you look like some "holier than thou" type who is more enlightened than those petty ideology fags.
you may not call yourself by any particular ideology, but i can almost garauntee you follow one more than the other. by proxy, you most likely believe in a specific form of socialism purely from the way you think we can achieve communism.
it's why people call themselves Maoists or Trots in the first place - to identify themselves as following (most of, if not all) the tenents of a specific application of Marx's ideas which they believe work the best.
you can call yourself just a "Marxist" but then what? that's vague, and when you start getting into stuff like vanguards, co-ops, how we secure the revolution and whatnot, then you'll find that you are creeping into the territory of ideological association.

Make Money Fast Anonymous 08/16/2019 (Fri) 02:13:02 No. 29459 [Reply]
Since we have a better understanding of capitalism than capitalists themselves, how can we use this knowledge to beat the financial markets? I promise if I make a lot of money, most will be donated to left wing causes.
19 posts and 4 images omitted.
>>29459
tl;dr you can't unless you start a company with highly skilled and middle-upper class leftists. then it's just a matter of just looking for an outdated industry and making it cheaper and better but selling it at the same price, plus a shit ton of marketing.
that or a shit ton of luck + work your dick of for porky for a lot of years + extreme saving and >>30737
How about this thread is now for thinking of ways to stay afloat in the coming megacrisis. Even things like gold and home ownership might not mean much in a crash. So what can someone invest in now to not be left helpless. Of course people, but whats the modern equivalent of buying an oil well?

property that would remain productive if not profitable in the future.
>>29459
>go to 4/biz/
>do everything opposite of their suggestions
Profit
>>34473
we run a solar power plant
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>>34488
>go to 4/biz
excuse me, there is a far better forum to learn about investing.
t.

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This guy Anonymous 08/14/2019 (Wed) 17:04:37 No. 28282 [Reply]
What are we calling this guy?
What does he represent exactly?
He's a /leftypol/ oc, right?
Post pics of him below cuz he looks cool
66 posts and 39 images omitted.
holy shit this is just like old /leftypol/

mashallah mashallah brothers
I've been thinking of him as Darkjak. Rolls of the tongue easier in my brain than Dark Wojak.
>>34464
Won't people just shorten his name to Jak?
>>34478
>jak
SAMURAI FOOL
>>33793
>>33796
https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/98ndzm/the_art_of_4chan_pretty_princesses/
https://lolcow.farm/ot/res/77993.html#112407
It would be difficult to make our own but editing an existing one would be easier. All that's needed is that everything gets screwed up and infected by the glowing slime that DW's flesh has become.

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