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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion.

IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan
https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=bunkerchan

Esperanto thread /esp/ Anonymous 12/15/2019 (Sun) 08:40:10 No. 162273 [Reply] [Last]
What are your thoughts on esperanto? Should we promote it or not?

Discuss in english or esperanto
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>>221624 >>221628 this is linguistic idpol >>221641 >I have the feeling the problem esperanto solves has been superseded by advances in translation technology. At a certain point, will we need a lingua franca if each language is translated on the spot? The only hurdle is developing and spreading the technology. The rate at which online translation programs improve has slowed down to a crawl. There are real time translation gadgets, where 2 people wear earphones and talk into the device in their respective language, and hear the translated responses in the earphones, while these sort of appear like a universal translator, they only allow very crude discourse, and it'll take a long time to make them context sensitive. Currently machine-translation services have to use professional translators to check the machine translations, although it's hilarious when they don't
>>222534 > I don't like it so it's idpol nekc yourself retard
>>222543 there is a right wing deviation that wants to preserve the past as an end in it self but there also is a left wing deviation that wants to erase the past as an end in it self I'm guessing you would be closer to the latter position. I think that Esperanto is a worthwhile goal to pursue, but only if you divorce it from anti-colonialism, because that has morphed from national liberation movements to reactionary culture-war.
English is already the international language. As an English-speaker, if the decision was made to push Esperanto then I would abide by it because it's a cool language and that seems fair, but it seems like it would be a lot easier to just adopt english.
>>221839 >ecause all European languages have a lexical distinction, you even just said it (kill). If the vocab is European based then I expect it to follow European rules I'm really not sure what you're saying here. >The intransitive is "to die" and the transitive is a completely different root "to kill". They're both basically death-verbs, the root is the intransitive form while the derivative is transitive. I don't see how that's different than the rest of the verbs, other than some roots are intransitive and some are transitive. I don't see how you wouldn't expect mortigi. >>But the entire reason for Esperanto is that its UNIVERSAL. If local dialects start to diverge grammatically (and irregularly) then there's no point. Esperanto is likely not going to split into local dialects. What is more likely is there will be evolutions and some will catch on and others won't. If the evolution is too radically different then it won't caught on. >Then you can't just ignore mandatory aspects of grammar like you just told me to do. If you can easily be understood without that aspect of grammar then it's not really necessary. If I say "Li mortas la viron", then it's grammatically incorrect but perfectly understandable; there's no way I could actually be saying "He dies, the man(accusative)" because that makes no sense. >>222480 >What's going to happen after a while is that Esperanto words get pronounced differently after a while, and spelling will likely follow after That's exceedingly unlikely. English spelling hasn't followed sound changes for 500 years, and a language like Esperanto, which is widely written and has a core purpose of universality won't have spelling-changes just because some people sometimes say words differently.

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Stalin Note Anonymous 01/21/2020 (Tue) 04:21:58 No. 223304 [Reply] [Last]
>The Stalin Note, also known as the March Note, was a document delivered to the representatives of the Western allied powers (the United Kingdom, France, and the United States) from the Soviet Occupation in Germany on March 10, 1952. Soviet leader Joseph Stalin put forth a proposal for a reunification and neutralization of Germany, with no conditions on economic policies and with guarantees for "the rights of man and basic freedoms, including freedom of speech, press, religious persuasion, political conviction, and assembly" and free activity of democratic parties and organizations. What was his endgame, /leftypol/? Was it all a ruse, a bluff waiting to be called out?
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>>223307 Watch out behind you Iosif Vissarionovich!
no i am sage
>>223304 He wanted to create a buffer zone between NATO and the USSR's sphere of influence and use the immediate post-war influence of the Soviet victory and assistance to East Europe to get Germany to side with the USSR wholly.
He was measuring his possibilities. His end-goal, as some anons have already said, was to get as much space as he could from NATO borders, wether it meant neutral countries or more countries in the socialist bloc. In the case fo Germany and Austria, he knew as much as the Allies, that no party had enough power or occupation to demand an unifocation on their terms, like it happened i the west with France, Italy or the Netherlands; or in the East with everything east of Poland. Point being, they had to reach an agreement. The soviet proposed basically the same plan for both Germany and Austria. Unification, of the occupied zones, neutrality of daid states, and free elections and all the cannonical liberties of bourgoise republics. In the case of Austria the Allies agreed, and thats why Austria has never entered NATO, but in the case of Germany there was to much at stake. The Allies couldnt risk a socialist or even communist victory in all of Germany, so they decided to go their own way and form the German Federal Republic with the union of the territories the UK, USA and France had occupied. The reasoning was tjat they could always blame the Soviets for not wanting a unified Germany in their home countries, even with all the facts pointing otherwise. And so, the Soviets had to form the DDR. The DDR was basically a product of the Allies not wanting to risk loosing Germany, wether it was to neutrality or to socialism. In any case, the Socialist Bloc would win. If they got a unified, neutral Germany, it would mean way less border to defend, with all the implications it has. And in the case the allies say no -which is what happened- they gained a new state.
I'm guessing the west thought he would still have his fingers in the whole thing somehow.

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exploitation, working conditions and leisure Anonymous 01/22/2020 (Wed) 02:00:32 No. 224704 [Reply] [Last]
Marx specifically referred to exploitation as how much surplus value a capitalist can get away with extracting from workers. I'm assuming that capitalists tend to pay more for miserable work, all other things being equal. So it seems that suffering also determines value, in the LTV. Is this true? As far as I know socially necessary labor time doesn't seem to factor in subjective working conditions. As much as more worker power and access to the means of production helps, some work is just intrinsically more pleasant than other kinds. I also believe that extra leisure time is necessary for difficult working conditions, in order to rest. I'm pretty sure Marx didn't say this though. What do communists think about leisure?
>I'm assuming that capitalists tend to pay more for miserable work, all other things being equal. Not sure that's really true. I think in most cases shitty jobs will be done by immigrants at shittier wages.
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Read Gogjodd :DDDDDD But seriously. >In a market economy the answer is simple. Pay divers more than the average manual worker. Then you will find people willing to take risks for the extra money. Is this satisfactory? An alternative approach might be to accept that not many people want to risk their lives under the sea, and hold up offshore oil development until automatic machines can be built to do the job. >Divers are an extreme case. The fact remains that some jobs are less pleasant than others. Socialist society has to decide whether this problem is going to be dealt with by improving the conditions and quality of work, or by paying incentives to people who do the nasty jobs. If the whole economy is based upon labour money there are risks to paying incentives. There is a danger that the ‘hour’ would be devalued if people were paid two hours’ tokens for every hour worked. These incentive payments would be at the cost of others who would

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>>224730 yeah, in reality all other things are not equal and capitalists outsource or employ immigrants who they can exploit indefinitely both in conditions and wage. I'm interested in the technicality here, about how subjective difficulty relates to the labor theory of value >>224757 Fair enough. Cockshott's blog is pretty good. >The labour time socially necessary is that required to produce an article under the normal conditions of production, and with the average degree of skill and intensity prevalent at the time. This reminds me that in general workers would self-regulate, working less or with less intensity for more difficult jobs.

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PSYOPS Thread Anonymous 01/16/2020 (Thu) 23:46:06 No. 216987 [Reply] [Last]
A place to discuss and share resources on Psychological Warfare Operations ('PSYOPS'), both historical and current in an effort to use the Imperialist's tactics against them in our own agitprop and campaigning.
7 posts omitted.
>>218648 The Hong Kong protesters are helping to break this narrative.
>>218648 Yes, that's why Ifucking don't like the "glowies" shit on here. You get it.
>>218648 Phineas Fisher breaks this narrative all the time. I highly recommend reading his/her manifesto https://crimethinc.com/2019/11/17/hacking-back-how-to-rob-a-bank-expropriate-redistribute-and-leak-dispatches-from-the-digital-trenches
Kinda old, maybe not as relevant now, but to me at least around 2017 or so it felt like many "transexuals" were being extremely insane in their behavior/trans demeanor, almost to a ridiculous extent. All that agender male pronouns lesbian shit and whatnot, shit like that. Maybe it was done on purpose to make regular, actual dysphoria people look bad?
>>224750 dysphoria suffering people* my bad

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Anonymous 01/20/2020 (Mon) 17:50:29 No. 222479 [Reply] [Last]
If the USSR had "won" the cold war tensions between the US and Russia would probably resume, but instead of being about capitalism vs socialism it would be about who implemented socialism the "right" way, same as what between them and China in 1960s.
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What kinda nuclear take is this? If all superpowers were socialist 90% of wars would have ended and we would be transitioning to world communism right now. Sectarianism would be something from the distant past.
It wouldn’t be a socialist international without socialist endlessly bickering about theory and shit.
>>222762 was reagan l/acc?
>>222479 >Cold War continues with vanguard socialism vs unionized syndicalism vs Chauvinistic sucdem with Chink characteristics >Space race never ended with orbital rings and space stations built everywhere >all sides successfully implemented cybernetics into their respective economies >no global warming Sounds good to me

The Moscow Trials 01/21/2020 (Tue) 23:23:59 No. 224390 [Reply] [Last]
Can you guys explain the history of and give me your takes of the moscoe trials as well as provide me some links to future reading? Were they justified? Was there really evidence? Or was it just a ploy to kill all of the opposition off in the party? And as a side question, was it really necessary to shoot so many people during the purge?
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>>224616 It's not paranoia if they're actually out to get you. Stalin clearly wasn't insane, his fears proved to be justified.
>>224616 >World leaders aren't allowed to be paranoid The man's been dead for sixty years Anon, you can stop defending him.
>>224634 I'm defending you actually. I don't want you to get hurt.
>>224586 >infiltrated by foreign agents and possibly about to be invaded by the Western powers Reminder that this is actually true. The imperialist powers appeased constantly, gave up the Czechs etc in the hopes that the Nazis would attack the Soviets (The Soviets foiled their plan with the nonagression pact), the imperialists supported the Finns, Japan attacked the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was literally surrounded by hostile capitalist nations, who had all invaded during the civil war. The idea that it was "paranoia" to think that the capitalists were plotting to invade/destroy the USSR, or that there were foreign agents in the party is absurd. It was not paranoia, it was very much reality.
>>224658 I fail to see how that justifies the murder of a whole host of committed and capable lifelong revolutionaries. The fact that the USSR was facing genuine peril from external and internal enemies doesn't preclude the possibility that the Moscow Trials were politically motivated (in the sense of Stalin eliminated potential rivals).

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Anonymous 01/21/2020 (Tue) 01:49:42 No. 223144 [Reply] [Last]
Was Robespierre based?
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>>223425 He just keeps getting more and more based.
There is a direct line from the Jacobins to the Paris Commune to 1917 to every other socialist revolution. Robespierre was awesome.
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>>224088 Robespierre was a doofus. And the French Revolution was a mistake like every other
>>223310 Pretty much all of the Jacobins, with the exception of the Chad Saint-Just, were ugly

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Hungarian Thread for /voros/ refugees Anonymous 11/06/2019 (Wed) 08:21:01 No. 117378 [Reply] [Last]
Második felvonás!
312 posts and 83 images omitted.
>>212136 > Egyet mondjál attól az alkalomleső tintaköpködőtől. Dicsőséges nagyurak >>213110 > de a parasztfelszopó burzsoá fröccsöntött gecik eztet fejtsed már ki kérlek alásan
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>>219155 > Dicsőséges nagyurak pik rilétid > a parasztfelszopó burzsoá fröccsöntött gecik Értsd: Azon írók/költők, akik vagy "dzsentrik" vagy nagymúltú családok sarjai ÉS a parasztságot úgy állították be, mint végtelenül elnyomott és piedesztálra emelendő kvázimágikus lények (azaz a természet csodái és földtúró mivoltukban esszenciálisan felsőbbrendű népréteg). Azok az írók, akik semmilyen valós egyéniséggel nem rendelkeztek, csak az akkori normákat majmolva írtak tucatregényeket. Tudom, tudom, "jajj jajj, cenzúra, jajj jajj, az olvasók nem értenék, jajj jajj, valamibő meg kő éni ergó írgyunk olyat amit kajál a nép". De akkor ennyi erővel E.L.James-t is taníthatnánk nyolcadikosoknak a tanév utolsó 2 órájában.
Még oktatásra visszatérve omegalul hogy olyan szóbeli tétel van a 2020-as töriérettségin, hogy >A közjogi rendszer átalakítása Magyarországon (1989-[b]2011[/b]) Ember, az tegnap volt gyakorlatilag, még kvázi aktuálpolitika.
what was hungary like before socialism? semi-feudal? an industrialised capitalist nation? i've heard both
>>223457 It does not matter... it was corrupt to the core since the beginning. And it still is.

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Are we winning? Anonymous 01/22/2020 (Wed) 00:23:25 No. 224469 [Reply] [Last]
According to a new global survey, 56% of people say that capitalism does "does more harm than good". https://www.salon.com/2020/01/21/global-poll-a-majority-believes-that-capitalism-does-more-harm-than-good_partner/
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>>224472 Both spooks
>>224469 >56% Economic muttdom is the future it seems.
>>224472 Fucking lol. They do that 3 times in the article.
To the contrary this is just bourgie outrage-porn and if anything we're in for an even harder neolib hellworld.

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US murders head of Iranian Quds Force Anonymous 01/03/2020 (Fri) 01:19:09 No. 194551 [Reply] [Last]
US just bombed Baghdad airport 3 times and killed major military and governmental figures in Iraq and Iran Iraqi state TV is saying that not only was the head of Quds force killed, but 5 leading members, including the deputy director, of the PMF were killed as well. Rumors are floating that a major member of Lebanese Hezbollah was killed as well. https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1212902680957317120 https://twitter.com/IraqiSecurity/status/1212904529840234497 If Soleimani dying is true, a major game changer in US geopolitical moves in the middle east against Iran, and likely means war will happen soon.
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Hasn't North Korea given tanks to Iran? Like self propelled artillery and the like?
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>>223453 They have supplied weapons to Iran since the Iran-Iraq war. Some of those weapons are in turn supplied by Iran to Hamas, Hezbollah etc.
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>>223453 Yes and they're absolutely fucking massive. Most were destroyed though.
>>217870 ISIS baron harkonnen... beautiful

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