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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion.

IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan
https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=bunkerchan

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Anonymous 01/16/2020 (Thu) 07:47:46 No. 215900 [Reply] [Last]
Who killed Stalin? Why was Stalin killed?
49 posts and 5 images omitted.
>>216461 (((Conquest))) No, thanks
>>217470 he sat in an armchair
>>217470 He found the Communist Party of Italy and was its first leader.
>>217345 this. stalin was 74 when he died, which is about the average for most soviet leaders all of which smoked, drank, and worked their asses off pre/post-revolution, during WWII, and cold war stress.

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/dead/ - Post-Leftism General Anonymous 12/27/2019 (Fri) 15:34:53 No. 189248 [Reply] [Last]
Welcome to /dead/, the endless magical nihilist gulag. This is not 8/grim/, but it is the continuation 8/grim/. Think of it as partly an /r9k/ for anti-capitalists, partly /GET/ with skeltals, and otherwise whatever you make of it. Now in thread form!
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>>217615 But I don’t believe in science either.
>>217628 Then you replace it with the ego, or some other abstract concept. God is inevitable.
>>217618 >>217618 >>217634 The thing is my ego is tangible and real.
>>217642 its a psychological abstraction, much like the id and the superego
>>217028 >I think Bob was trying to prove a point that you don't fuck with him. Because he's a fed, yes.

Soviet dissident scientists Anonymous 01/15/2020 (Wed) 09:47:21 No. 214673 [Reply] [Last]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Bolonkin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Sakharov Ive heard many anticommunists and antisoviets talk about how the USSR falsely imprisoned and tortured their owned scientists, usually giving these two examples, trying to prove that soviet socialism was such a failure that even its brightest minds wanted nothing to with it. Do you think these scientists had legitimate criticisms of the USSR or were they traitors? Also why were there so many Soviet KGB and military dissidents? DO you think the soviet industry and military suffered significantly from defections?
20 posts omitted.
>>215134 But but Le ebilz sobietz forced them to do science and shitz!!! Women belong in the kitchen!!!
>>215549 >pressed >coercion Fucking totalitarians, I swear!
>>214693 Not letting them flee.
>>215577 al szymanski? wasn't expecting his name—this looks like an image for a lenin quote.

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Official /leftypol/ embassy thread Anonymous Board volunteer 09/25/2019 (Wed) 00:24:56 No. 71591 [Reply] [Last]
ACTIVE THREADS https://xchan.wtf/db8/res/33.html Hello everyone, I have set up this embassy topic in order to introduce new people on imageboards and elsewhere to leftist concepts (and /leftypol/) in an open and honest way. Why should we be open? Well, because many internet users are terrified rightly or wrongly of shills, spooks, et cetera. Simply announcing who were are and where we're from sidesteps that whole debacle. We won't pretend to be 'fellow kids' (unless you are a regular poster on that board of course), simply give in a polite and considered way the reasons why that particular board/site's ideology is flawed and what leftism can offer. Why should we be polite? Because this is not a raid, and we are not raiders. I'm sure you've seen plenty of raid threads on our board from /pol/, shit like LUL LEFTIST TRANNIES BTFO, do you even look twice at those pathetic cries for attention once you realise what they are? Of course not. And it doesn't take much thought for us to delete them either. On the other hand, if we approach our enemies, or, I would prefer, potential allies, with an honest discussion, only the truly dishonest can dismiss us as spammers or nuisance posters. What exactly should we argue for? Well, I and one of the other vols worked up the template below which is catered for /pol/, but of course you may feel a different message works better in your chosen avenue of debate. However, I would like to stress a few key points; 1. Be honest. Don't hide that you're from /leftypol/ or your true beliefs. 2. Be open. Respond to honest questions or misunderstandings honestly. 3. Be polite. It's okay to participate in the usual banter of the site you are posting on, but angry rants at other users is unlikely to make anyone change their mind. On open hand is more likely to convince than a closed fist. 4. Be non-sectarian. Try not to shit on other leftist ideologies than your own, it's okay to say which one you favour and why, but ultimately I think we can all agree that outside of relatively minor doctrinal differences (when compared to capitalism), we all want the same thing. Thank you anons, and remember, your participation is needed! I will post the currently active threads below.

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Edited last time by antious666 on 01/14/2020 (Tue) 20:44:47.
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>>216849 Do you really define "political and social liberty" (what does that even mean) by the amount of parties that are running in elections? Wow, India must be the most free country now. >They are/were both shit and neither are worth defending. Communists who want to have nothing do with history usually end up with history not wanting anything to do with them
>>216857 >Do you really define "political and social liberty" (what does that even mean) by the amount of parties that are running in elections? Wow, India must be the most free country now. That's one example, but people associating into political parties is instrumental to political liberty. There's also the fact that freedom of speech didn't exist, neither did an independent media, or a system of checks and balances. Universal suffrage didn't exist either since the Communist Party had complete control over the government and not everyone was a member or could be a member. Even the democracy within the Communist Party was a sham, since elections weren't secret ballots and factions were banned; if you wanted to get anywhere you had to toe the line and vote how you should vote. >Communists who want to have nothing do with history usually end up with history not wanting anything to do with them I'll gladly have something to do with the Russian Revolution and its Soviets, and if I'm genuine in doing so that means opposition to the Bolsheviks and the counter-revolutionary state they created.
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>check the thread on xchan: 48 replies >thread on leftypol specifically about the above thread: 500+ replies
>>217555 Lmao, it's a slow process.
>>217555 That's not the timeline at all. This thread isn't about xchan. Check the date on OP.

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Black markets Anonymous 01/09/2020 (Thu) 22:18:51 No. 206577 [Reply] [Last]
How do we prevent black markets from emerging in a planned economy?
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>>214295 >Sex is simply the service they perform with their labor-power. When you rent out your labor-power you are renting out your body, since they are inherently inseparable. So public brothels under the ministry of snuggles. Sorry but I can't imagine how this would work, like the technical side of stuff like recruitment are you going to send out recruitment personal like in the military, and make advertisement that say help fulfil the plan sign as a hooker get a free boob-job. Consider that this isn't productive labour and surplus has to be allocated and then people are going to vote on it. I don't know why you want to make sex a job, it seems like such crass interference into what should just be informal human activity. >And that's idealist. Everything results from material conditions. Even if there was a case where addiction happened simply from bad genes coming into contact with an addictive substance, which as far as I know is never that simple, then the appropriate action would be to modify those genes, not outlaw a substance. lol what you want to genetically modify people to make then compatible with drugs, that's like the most un-proportional reaction imaginable. Your version of freedom is oldly selective, you can have all the substances but not certain genes ? This also seem to be really impractical considering the restrictions of extremely deadly toxic substances. >Yes, if you fuck up someone's brain they stop being a healthy person. No kidding Have you considered that brains can get fucked up with chemicals ? Your argument seems to be that drugs can't harm healthy people because as soon as they got harmed they no longer count as healthy.
>>206944 >1) abolish money and institute labor vouchers. This haults circulation as each voucher is assigned to each worker (and expires over time). People can just use other objects as money. >2)incorporate the black market goods into the plan so there is no incentive for a black market in the first place. This is the actual solution to the problem. People don't form black markets for fun, they do it because they want access to something legitimized economic activity isn't providing them. >3)establish heavy punishments for those engaging in black market trade. Yes, though only egregious things like human and unlicensed arms trafficking should be illegal in the first place.
>>214495 >Sorry but I can't imagine how this would work, like the technical side of stuff like recruitment are you going to send out recruitment personal like in the military, and make advertisement that say help fulfil the plan sign as a hooker get a free boob-job. It'd be just like any other job and whatever system exists in order to fulfill the labor demands would apply also to prostitution. >I don't know why you want to make sex a job, it seems like such crass interference into what should just be informal human activity. I don't. I'd prefer if everyone was sexually satisfied by informal relationships, but realistically there will be people who for whatever reason want prostitution, and under a democratic economy they will get their wish. >Your version of freedom is oldly selective, you can have all the substances but not certain genes ? That's not what I'm saying. I'm not advocating forced eugenics; I'm saying that if the consumption of a substance that is generally benign to most people inevitably leads to addiction for people with certain genes, then that seems like a defect with their genes and not the substance, and if any action is needed it should fix the underlying problem, not hide whatever triggers it. >Your argument seems to be that drugs can't harm healthy people because as soon as they got harmed they no longer count as healthy. I'm saying a healthy person will not consume such significant amounts of recreational drugs to where it does lasting damage to their brain.
>>206944 I think combining labor vouchers/credits with UBI would be a good way of doing things. Eliminate currency and have UBI for basic needs such as food , shelter , basic utilities and clothing which all workers receive by virtue of being contributing members of society who are either employed, in training, these goods will be distributed in a fair way based on needs alone. And have a currency of labor credits that workers can use to buy luxuries, the quantity of labor credits is determined by their productivity in their profession, a productive worker will get bonuses to incentivize a strong work ethic while a work shy slacker will get very few labor credits.
>>217630 >genocide neets

The Idpol Thread Has Been Deleted. Anonymous 01/17/2020 (Fri) 01:41:21 No. 217113 [Reply] [Last]
This is clearly a bad idea for a number of reasons 1) It was done without any real input from the board. 2) It was done on the whim of one mod who stirred shit up in the idpol thread causing it to leak, which was then used as an excuse to get rid of it. 3) Idpol posters will now try to infect everywhere else. Even if the ban hammer has been dropped. New ones will come and we will have nowhere to direct them to. Alongside this, earnest idpol posters will get swept up with the incel maniacs. 4) I don't know why we hold ourselves in such high regard, pretty conceited unfortunately cranks are our bedfellows, better have them a crazy leftist than an average rightard. This place serves a nice middle ground for these people, without that we hand ground to the right. 5) The intention is now to delete/ban everyone who posts idpol, instead of putting them in a gulag. Think summary execution rather than a gulag system. We now have nowhere we can talk about idpol, which is a huuuuge and important subject, even if our stance is "anti idpol" we still need to be able to get to grips with it. 6) The mods have provided no definition of idpol at all, and given their trigger happy ways, will no doubt use this as a way to delete threads they personally don't like. Here is a poll https://www.strawpoll.me/19250889/r
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>>217741 (only bit I'm not sure is whether it was 5 or 6 in favour)
Idpol sucks but banning any discussion of it amounts to chasing left curious liberal away, and that is counterrevolutionary. I dont want this to be a shitty ultra-niche ML only LARP board
>>217120 Do you want me to make a google captcha backed polling website?
>>218220 Or why not use google forms?
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wtf just dont click the thread if it bothers you like lmao one of the most prominent banes of the left and now we have to pretend it doesn't exist cos it got some tankies moustache in a twist mods never change lmao

Anonymous 01/12/2020 (Sun) 21:11:32 No. 210490 [Reply] [Last]
I have accepted that, even though humanity will succumb to fascism and barbarity before ever thinking about socialism, I'll still be here to document all this terror for the future generations so that they don't repeat our mistake.
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>>210776 >good of all mankind spook'd
>>210531 There's no reason plain text would become obsolete. The contents of which can be read with >50 year old processors.
Research indicates that in times of crisis people become more humane and pro-social. If anything, collapse brings out the best in people. The important thing is that we do as much as we can to spread an economic understanding to that people's good intent will be matched with an ability to accomplish what they will already want - taking care of their neighbors in the face of crisis.
>>210748 Except you're not doing anything more than he is.
>>210776 So what's stopping you from doing any of that?

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Debunk thread Anonymous 01/09/2020 (Thu) 22:06:09 No. 206527 [Reply] [Last]
It would be nice if we could properly debunk some /pol/ memes/other untruths, especially the more common ones. Starting off with this old screenshot:
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>>215383 Someone should make a fake(r) version of this chart to spread among neo-Nazis, that would be embarrassing when exposed. E.g. adding Lenin and random Jewish historical figures to the left part.
>>215383 >muh stab in the back Reminder that Hitlers officer in WW1 was a Jew
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Relevant to the thread: I made an image responding to a /pol/ picture claiming that basically the Rothschilds are the real ruling-class and they secretly control everything. First pic is /pol/'s version, second is mine
anyone else remember democrat general threads on pol c. 2012/2013?
>>217488 4plebs has archives going back to around 2013/2014 if you wanna dig there

How can I understand supply and demand from a Marxist perspective? Anonymous 01/15/2020 (Wed) 20:33:02 No. 215171 [Reply] [Last]
When I read a lot of Marx's works I find that he uses the model of supply and demand a lot to illustrate certain points. This, however, makes his works harder to understand since I'm used to the understanding of supply and demand as it is sold to us by capitalist propaganda with no frame of reference for Marxism in this understanding. What should I read to understand this?
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>>215201 Always remember that temporary price change from supply and demand fluctuation of a commodity doesn't mean that the labour value of that commodity has changed, it only mean that somebody accept to lose money than usual when buying/selling that commodity. However, a change in labour value of a commodity could imply a supply change. For example, if most factories implement new production systems which improve productivity. The labour value and price will become lower, while the supply will become higher. However, it is not the fact that increasing supply makes value decreasing, but only that two events just happen together
>>215171 Think of it as 'labour theory of supply' or 'labour theory of scarcity'. Supply and demand objectively determines prices, but this doesn't get us anywhere until we plug in the LTV as the thing which determines the availability of supply of commodities. Labour determines how much effort it costs to produce a certain amount of commodities (assuming average rate of intensity, productivity, etc.) I only got this idea properly when I read Capital Vol 3, where it is mostly clearly stated. I guess if you read Value, Price and Profit as an introduction you'll be on your way.
>>217205 It's better to use the term scarcity to describe this phenomenon and forget about supply and demand all together because it's bogus. Neoclassical economics say that the price goes up when there is more supply and the price goes down when there is more demand.
>>217480 This. See Cockshot's vid about epicycles.
>>217480 explaining supply and demand with prices which are then explained by supply and demand. things can be so easy when you neglect reality. gotta luv this kind of science

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Value Price and Profit + The Repr. of Daily Life | Reading Group #2 Anonymous 01/10/2020 (Fri) 19:36:09 No. 207846 [Reply] [Last]
HERE WE GO AGAIN Last week's thread >>193881 You guys know the drill. 1. Read This week we're doing two texts. The first is Value Price and Profit by Karl Marx. (html version: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ ) The second is The Reproduction of Daily Life by Fredy Perlman (html: https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/perlman-fredy/1969/misc/reproduction-daily-life.htm ). If you prefer there are pdf versions as well. >Do I have to read both? I'm not your mom, so I can't force you, but you should read both because they were chosen as a pair to get both a marxist and anarchist perspective on the subject. 2. Respond Make a post replying to the texts. Things you could do include: >ask questions of other anons

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>>209953 >>209957 So to sum this up: could we say that increasing wages is simply a matter of changing the distribution of newly produced value, and that if Weston's proposition was true, then new value has to be created to accommodate this rise in prices that supposedly happens as wages increase?
Read this over the last 2 days. A lot of it I already knew or instinctively grasped I think. But I have some questions. How does the concept of socially necessary labour time and average time correspond to differences in speed of working among workers? If one works fast but the rest work slow, does this affect the time needed and therefore its value? How does the labour theory of value things like art and books which do not have socially necessary labour contained in them for survival? Did/do socialist states use the labour theory of value mechanism to plan the economy? I presume the USSR had a surplus produced by people working 8 hours a day. How was this surplus used?
>>215030 We can't really reason about consequences starting from if Weston's proposition was true… because it leads to total incoherence. That any wage increase will be eaten by exactly corresponding rise in prices or that some other workers will be poorer by exactly the same amount or something like that is what the ruling class is constantly alluding to. Though they can't make it too explicit, otherwise people start to wonder: Should I tell my boss to stop wasting his time trying to lower wages, since after all, what workers get in hte end is naturally fixed⸮ It amounts to stating that your ingoing and outgoing money flows have no effect on how rich you are. The point of Marx in Value Price and Profit is that wages aren't technically determined by the system. What share labor gets depends on how much we organize. Also how big the total wealth pie is and the proportion of the things within it are variable issues that we struggle over. (One can reason in abstractions that assume workers as fully atomized individuals and society as a machine, and Marx does some of that too in other places – this gives you just one extreme position within a bigger coordinate system for thinking about society. Those who see this machine model as the real thing and see fault Marx for not being totally committing to that are just trying to cope with their own isolation.)
>>215030 Marx seems to argue in the hypothetical that there is not change in production, since the argument Weston puts forward would demand it. Just that the ratio of what gets paid as wages vs profits changes, and how that effects different industries, leading to a decrease in the rate of profit generalized over all industry after capital reinvestment takes place.
>>216616 Value in the labor theory of value is taken in a generalized form, essentially an aggregate of all the differing labor times would be averaged into the value of something. The differences in the rate of labor can effect prices, but because of the market, all capitalists try to discipline and make more efficient their labor, so as not to be the loser in the market place. In another thread, an anon described the value as a "center of gravity" for prices, and I thought that was a really good metaphor. They all try and get that sweet spot of value. As for art and books, socially necessary, and necessary for survival are different things, and if there is a demand for art and books, there's going to be a supply, but these aren't really things that are made by capital, but made by artisans, unless they are mass produced, in which case they follow the laws of commodities, where the value comes from how much labor is needed to make enough of them to meet the demand. I would imagine they'd fill a role like the luxuries in V.P.P. All societies that have a division of labor must make a surplus of things, since all things are not accounted for by yourself. I don't know how the USSR used this surplus though, sorry. There is a good YouTube series, called The Law of Value. It is, I think, pretty good at explaining things like this. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3F695D99C91FC6F7

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