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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://app.element.io/#/room/!RQxdjfGouwsFHwUzwL:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

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/ecology/ Anonymous 11/21/2020 (Sat) 10:51:45 No. 1157139 [Reply] [Last]
Howdy, Comrades. I thought this would be an interesting thread to have discussion and debate regarding Eco-socialism. Be free to post pdfs of recommended readings, place forward manuals relating to gardening/ permaculture etc. as well as be free to funpost about wildlife and solarpunk. Let's try and keep this thread comfy and somewhat respectful.
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>>1195538 Because thorium reactors are untested and not easy to copy paste or run. You would need to do a lot of research beforehand Also nukes are good, every country should have them.
>>1195538 yup, i honestly doubt the green movement actually had anything to do with why nuclear was abandoned. they may have been helpful pr, but capital had decided it was time to privatize and marketize state assets, and it didn't want nuclear because of the huge investments and liabilities combined with slow payoff. i believe nuclear is the long term solution, if we emerge on the other side of the collapse with a civilization or at least stable enough environmental conditions and enough population to rebuild. right now we don't have the time for a nuclear transition anyway, and whatever we could gain by going all in at this point doesn't seem like it's likely to be worth having more nuclear power plants around while we enter the most economically, societally, geopolitically, meteorologically and possibly even seismically unstable time humanity has yet endured. >>1195636 >every country should have them i wish people who unironically enjoy contrarian economists, silicon valley gurus and other "unintuitive truth bomber" type liberal propagandists knew to leave that shit behind when they move left. it's nice that we get gamers and channers too these days, but sometimes i miss the times when you could trust a comrade to go with their own common sense over that bullshit.
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>>1195636 >Because thorium reactors are untested Excuse me?
>>1157139 thier is no future for eco-socialism, climate accelerationism has already started
>>1196085 well, then there's just no future, period.

Yugoslav Wars Anonymous 12/01/2020 (Tue) 04:54:35 No. 1185969 [Reply] [Last]
Just finished reading to Kill a Nation by Parenti. Yet I feel it wasn't fully satisfactory run down. What exactly go down? Why there is videos of Serbian snipers gunning Bosnian civilians? Were the Serbs really animals as depicted by western media? Did pic related fucked up?
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>>1186997 No, its south now
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>>1187003 >Spain, Portugal South >ALL OF SOUTH AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN Those are south americans and caribbean >France I guess, but not really
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>1186920 I mean if you follow this map, but it's kind of retarded. Unless you mean west and the people who were part of nato during the cold war. But in that case is unfair for greece, part of germany, italy and spain and maybe even france.
Why serbian get shitted on but croatians come out clean when they were even worse?
>>1196184 It's burger brain poison m8 The Obama administration went out of their way to rehabilitate Ukrainian Nazis for example

Anonymous 11/28/2020 (Sat) 07:10:25 No. 1177815 [Reply] [Last]
Thoughts on the EFF? It’s hilarious to read about the dumb shit they’ve done. How the fuck did they get a million people to vote for them? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_Fighters
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>>1193926 I support them and if they want to dispose of me and other whites after the revolution, then I'm fine with that. Just gotta do my part, like John Cena. https://youtu.be/H9bGITkIHmM https://youtu.be/IApvU6SMq-8
>>1195686 cuck one thing to kill white booj but its another to kill white proles
>>1195675 Yes. And?
>>1177973 I'm going to screencap this and come back to it every time I am mad.
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🦠 /COVID-19/ GENERAL-2: The Dark Winter Anonymous 11/18/2020 (Wed) 17:44:06 No. 1148724 [Reply] [Last]
NOTE: Only debate Germ Theory and related science within this thread, not outside it. Thanks -Management Live Updates: https://www.worldometers.info/ Global Tracker: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
Edited last time by zulveta on 11/23/2020 (Mon) 08:32:58.
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>>1148864 Why are there so many self hating spics wehraboohs in your country?
>>1195747 >>1195739 >>1195728 I've been working at a grocery store ever since the pandemic started, interacting with literally hundreds of people per day, and yet the vast majority of those working at my store have yet to catch it, including myself. And even if they did, 97.7% survive the virus. And of the 2.3% that don't survive, 94% had other health conditions. Masks are irrelevant because the fact of the matter is, they do very little to stop anything, you might as well wear a bucket on your head for all the good this crap will do. Hell the mask regime bullshit correlates with a RISE in infections, mostly because masks are not meant to be kept on all the time. Doctors use them in surgery so that they don't breathe out into another person's open body and to prevent anything entering their own mouths. Against a pandemic this is useless, you'd have to wear a HAZMAT suit to prevent it and even then, taking it off would be a risk. FFS if it was as infectious and dangerous as claimed, then the masks are useless, as they have gaps and only prevent moisture being breathed in or out, not filtering air at all. In fact, after an hour or two they become perfect little breeding grounds for disease. >social distancing <social alienation also useless
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>>1195728 >This is such blatant gas-lighting No, it fucking isn't faggot. I posted a literal massive post a month or two ago, and it was deleted after a constant spray of "hurr conspiritard" >hurr this evidence is legit If you're going to not read the links posted or delete posts why should we do the same for your garbage? Except, unlike you I have read this rubbish and as a person who actually did microbiology it's a diatribe of bullshit. The numbers don't add up with the narrative, literally making an elephant out of a mouse. Moreover ALL of those links use unconformable data and samples and are literally owned by corporate Big Pharma. I'll repeat; Scientists have lied to uphold a status quo (usually due to political or monetary reasons) repeatedly throughout history and the proletarian has no way of confirming this. Historians are the same shit, why do you think 20 million killed in Gulag is still a wide-spread belief? Because the status-quo of historiography deems that as the number and ignores works from the archives of J.Arch Getty, Rittersporn and Zemskov. The SAME applies to any science that is in the public view. Half-truths and exaggerations are their bread and butter. Example >damage [respiratory organs] but it improves with time SO LIKE ANY FUCKING DISEASE THAT'S A LITTLE WORSE THAN THE FLU???? FFS have any of you had pneumonia? or Meningitis? Or fucking any disease that fucks with your breathing? This shit is pathetic and meaningless. >Anons have more than proven that the virus is an issue, not just "the flu" The virus affects fewer people than the flu by a long shot and if it was not fearmongered and bullshitted, it would be reacted to, and have the same effect on population as the flu. social isolation and masks will do nothing for the people who are getting infected and dying, because their immune systems are so fucked that they have just as much risk dying from the flu. Hell I KNOW for a fact that hospitals have put down Flu patients as COVID patients (because it brings in more insurance money and quotas), even though they tested as negative. The tests themselves are fucking unreliable, when fucking Papaya flesh sample was sent as a test, and came out "positive". >masks and lockdowns are more effective measures of handling it than doing nothing They're effective measures, at normalizing the idea of bending knee to a bourg state. This "pandemic" has proven how easy it is to control the population through fear, all conveniently while another recession is occurring, a recession that was predicted last year in September, long before the virus even began and somehow, just as people were beginning massive riots against mass-firings the virus began and quickly all meetings of more than 15 people were broken up an arrested. How convenient.

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Evolafags Anonymous 12/04/2020 (Fri) 00:26:17 No. 1193953 [Reply] [Last]
Can someone explain to me why people take spook magician's like evola seriously and literally worship him, I know fascoids are subhumans but not completely autistic to the point they take a fucking vedic nazi seriously
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http://www.whomakesthenazis.com/2011/12/julius-evola-dangerous-beast.html look at the comments for donut head fash claiming that Ebola wasn't fascist/racist/didn't support the Nazis or Mussolini. Kek
>>1193969 You mean Lauren Southern?
>>1195551 Its a terrible review though. It doesnt make any actual points about his work, but rather is designed to only evoke emotions in the reader. I knew its gonna be worthless after reading those first 5 words. You dont learn anything from it.
Yeah, and I get that it's just that the people calling him not a racist or fascist are really top quality humor. The review doesn't actually engage with Evola, it just says Evola is bad without explaining the rather interesting intricacies of why Evola sucks ass.
>>1195562 I meant Leni Riefenstahl. Literally went to Sudan to shoot a BBC documentary. And I'm not talking about British Broadcasting Corp

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News 12/3/20 News Anon 3.0 12/03/2020 (Thu) 19:05:57 No. 1193155 [Reply] [Last]
Over 70 Shining Path and Movadef members captured in Peru More than 70 alleged members of the terrorist organization Shining Path were captured on Wednesday in a mega-operation carried out by the National Police of Peru, with the support of Public Ministry representatives, General Commander of the National Police of Peru (PNP) Cesar Cervantes reported. https://andina.pe/ingles/noticia-over-70-shining-path-and-movadef-members-captured-in-peru-823667.aspx https://archive.is/HwA07 CPI Maoist Cadres Exchange Gunfire With Security Forces In Jharkhand State A brief exchange of gunfire took place between a group of CPI (Maoist) cadres and security forces in the Palamu forested area of Jharkhand state on Thursday that lead to the seizure of arms and ammunition from the Maoists. https://www.redspark.nu/en/peoples-war/cpi-maoist-cadres-exchange-gunfire-with-security-forces-in-jharkhand-state/ Coup-Born Regime Liable for Bolivian Airline's Debts Bolivia's Public Works Minister Edgar Montaño Thursday claimed the coup-born regime responsibility for the state-owned Bolivian Aviation Company (BoA) multi-million dollar debt. https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Coup-Born-Regime-Liable-for-Bolivian-Airlines-Debts-20201203-0007.html Caribbean countries call on former European slave nations to pay back their debts The call came during celebrations for the United Nations International Day for the Abolition of Slavery, which commemorates December 2 1949, when the Convention for the Suppression of the Traffic in Persons and the Exploitation of the Prosecution of Others was approved. https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/caribbean-countries-call-former-european-slave-nations-pay-back-its-debts

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>>1193702 either he is CIA or a complete retard because the peruvian left is non existant thanks to shinning path
>>1195827 Prove it
>>1195832 ok mentionf a peruvian leftist party
>>1195841 The shining path
>>1193566 >Brazil had them but they stopped Brazil is a nation of cucks. That's why they stopped. It wasn't because they were made to be stopped.

Anonymous 12/04/2020 (Fri) 03:27:28 No. 1194413 [Reply] [Last]
I wanted to discuss something I didn’t fully realize when I first listened to Cockshott suggest that the UK should have a referendum that, among other things, banned wage labor. I think banning wage labor should actually be a demand, not in an abstract or long term sense but a very serious demand. The reason is because it is actually not that radical and also achievable without expropriation, which I think makes it a surprisingly ballsy kind of policy to be serious about. That means it is actually legal, as in Congress could do it without any changes to the constitution. I also think it is a non-reformist reform, should it be achieved even in isolation. But I would preface by saying I have no illusions such a law would be passed through a conventional electoral campaign, rather it serves a broader messaging and ideological purpose to be serious about it even as you know that it is an intolerable demand. On the not that radical front, the reason I say that is because you can actually make wage labor illegal without expropriating any property, and without abandoning markets. You also don’t need to do it overnight, you can make it effective after some period of years or something. However, if you make wage labor illegal then all of the big capitalists would lose the vast majority of their wealth as soon as the law was passed. Jeff Bezos would still own his shares of Amazon, but all Amazon would own is its property, the warehouses and trucks and servers etc. Clearly this is not worthless, and Amazon would still be allowed legally to lease or sell this capital. But legally the only entity that could deploy labor on it for the kinds of services Amazon provided would be a co-operative, and it seems likely at least initially that someone like Jeff Bezos would be forced to lease his capital to Amazon Coop, but have no more claim to their profits. Amazon Coop would grow, as companies that employ labor do, and would slowly be able to buy up new capital and cease their leases with Bezos, and so all the remaining capitalists would find their capital stocks dwindling. Furthermore, as illustrated by the simple fact Amazon Coop can buy or rent any warehouse that meets their criteria, other developers can move in and build warehouses, which are not particularly difficult buildings to create. Jeff Bezos is now no longer the big owner of the commerce and tech monopoly of Amazon, he now owns a portfolio of equipment and buildings that are mere commodities, capable of being replaced. His competition has heightened significantly, so that now all the big capitalists of today will see their remaining wealth chipped away by market forces. This would not result in communism, but that is why it actually is not that radical. It would preserve everything as it is, but the only difference is new companies of associated laborers would have to form to take up the productive activity of their old companies and banks would be forced to lend to them due to the fact they can’t lend to businesses that employ people, so assuming that the legislative authority of this was secure then the money will simply flow in from the financial markets by necessity for the transition to occur. The market would literally be forced to adjust, which it is entirely capable of doing because the market doesn’t require wage labor. All it requires is commodity production and monetary exchange, wage labor is unnecessary. As I said though, I have no illusions this is actually achievable by just championing it like M4A or a $15 min wage, but it is far more radical than those policies while still being “realistic”. And the opposition to it by the bourgeoisie and establishment will reframe debates nationally on what the hell capitalism actually is, because they’d be forced to publicly confront the argument that you aren’t even depriving them of their property, you are merely asserting that people had the right to the fruits of their labor. Even if they confront you with something about “I built this company” etc. FINE! Keep it. Keep all the Walmarts in American, you own them. But you don’t own the people who work there and you don’t have an entitlement to the labor proceeds of their labor. Furthermore, this isn’t a handout on any level. The workers would have to pay the costs of doing business as the owners of the new cooperatives. They’d have to buy equipment, pay rent, and pay the upfront costs of labor. But as a consequence of these responsibilities of covering the costs, they get the surplus product that they produce. If they need to use your Walmart, they have to pay you rent for it, but you don’t get the profit of their work. It recontextualizes property and labor, it makes it very easy to begin to frame capital owners as the ones who expect to receive something for not doing any work, because the reality is their capital is not what gives them their power. It’s the fact they employ people and have a legal right to claim what those people produce, which is what is highlighted by that very argument. When you take that right away, there is no subsequent removal of their property rights. They can even still make money off of it, but they can’t make nearly the level of profits they used to make because the source of all of their profits was appropriating the product of labor, which is immediately exposed!
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>>1194413 For those comrades around here & Scotland, whatever you did, please protect our Great Scott with our lives.
>>1195518 Tbf the Juche necromancer should kidnap him. Or CPC offer him a position in the party.
>>1195519 based
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>>1195493 >>1195407 >What actually exists is a wage contract with an implicit clause that the laborer abandons any right to claim what they produce. That clause goes unstated because it is ideologically inconvenient to explicitly state that the wage laborer produces the thing in the first place, and then in an ideal sense he grants ownership of it to the capitalist willingly. I don't want to keep ranting but I feel like this idea still should be explained a little more because of how useful it really is, even as it is so simple. I don't think it is even inconvenient to the argument that this is a voluntary contract. Aside from the fact that many forms of voluntary contracts are still considered illegal, so that to argue on the basis of voluntarism alone wage labor should be legal would also be to argue that voluntary slavery should be legal, but to force average people into the ideological position of asking themselves why wage labor should be legal is forcing themselves to argue for why they should be subjugated rightfully. As in, there is nothing they directly stand to lose by making wage labor illegal, in fact it effectively produces their empowerment. You will still work exactly as you do right now, but now you have a claim to the profits and you have some modicum of control of the company as an equal shareholder. Arguing against in favor of the wage labor contract as a wage laborer is like arguing in favor of the voluntary slavery contract as somebody already enslaved. Should it be made illegal, you have much to gain and (again, theoretically) nothing to lose. But I also forsee people asking about entrepreneurship, which is once again very illustrative of how arbitrary and unequal the wage relation is. Entrepreneurship can still exist, an entrepreneur can lend the money they save (which of course is a part of the capitalist mythos anyways, that these people were all responsible and saved their money) to the coop when it starts. That is separate from their actual work in the coop as an equal owner. Their loan, probably in some other business entity, gets paid back in an equal exchange. They risked their capital, it gets paid. All is still fair, nobody is deprived of opportunity or property or anything. Furthermore, if they are the business genius visionary actually leading the coop, the cooperative is free to pay them a higher salary for their value to the coop. So there is in no sense a debasement of people's drive to be innovative, or successful, or fulfill a vision or any of that. I think the Mondragon CEO gets paid like, half a million a year or something. That isn't crazy tech wealth money, but I'm sure the guy is a multi-millionaire with multiple houses. He is still rich, but the obscene levels of wealth become impossible.
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>>1195541 Another amusing note on the voluntarist argument, it can be inverted back onto them if they complain that it is a backdoor to expropriation because capital owners will be in effect forced to sell or lease their capital to the cooperatives. Of course they aren't forced, they are fully at liberty to dispose of their property as they wish within the confines of the law, which is the basis of establishing any contract as consensual. It again exposes the lie of consent for me but not for thee. The wage contract IS a voluntary contract as far as liberalism is concerned, it is voluntary within the law. But the test of legitimacy for a contract is not simply voluntarism, you can not voluntarily buy shares in a private business if that private business doesn't follow the proper legal procedures that regulate closing such a contract. Nobody sees this as forcing private businesses to seek loans in lieu of issuing shares, thus making business loans "forced" and illegitimate. They understand that voluntary contracts are entered into within the scope of the law. So if a capitalist does complain that they are being forced to do this or that by such a law, then they can be counter-attacked by simply saying they are not being forced to do anything, they can voluntarily lease or sell their capital for a return or they can burn it all down if they'd like, turning the true meaning of liberal voluntarism around on them.

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🇰🇵/dprk/ -- DPR Korea General🇰🇵 Comrade 08/05/2019 (Mon) 14:04:23 No. 9051 [Reply] [Last]
Thread for news and discussions of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, its material conditions, the status and health of its socialist tradition, disproving common myths about it, etc. Archive of first ~500 posts on original thread: https://archive.fo/pRkxK Subsequent archives: https://archive.fo/https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2265496.html Related archives: https://archive.fo/HbuXi https://archive.fo/https://8ch.net/leftpol/res/36983.html
Edited last time by krates on 11/26/2020 (Thu) 02:57:43.
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>>1195228 I'm starting to believe the 10 principles do exist. In dprk-tech.info there's a dump of PDFs that were hidden encrypted in a Red Star OS installation disk. It includes many topics like physics, geography, and so on, but the PDF on revolutionary history that starts in 1974 mentions the 10 principles in page 19: https://www.dprktech.info/dprk-34c3/DPRK-34C3-PDFs/Education/Secondary/6/revolutionary_history2.pdf What confuses me is, why hide it so much? The speech where KJI supposedly codified these principles is in volume 4 of his collected works, which is the only one not translated to English and I cannot find in Korean either on the Internet. I found two reviews of his collected works in korean, and the authors mention that they could not get volume 4. There's a South Korean website with the full text of KJI collected works, and the table of contents for volume 4 is censored and there's a note 'if you really need the full text, call this number'. Why does this happen, it's weird.
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>>9051 If the Juche necromancer present here, I hereby beg for you to protect our Great Comrade Paul Cockshott from the hands of the international bourgeoisie to serve & save us the proles. Hear my words, don't let them do anything harm to Cockshott. The vanguard must defend him at all cost!
>>1195589 What happened to Cockshott?
>>1195589 >>1195620 He's fine. They won't harm him. He's to useful to be harm. But I do agree if DPRK kidnap him it'll be incredible.

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bottom text Anonymous 12/03/2020 (Thu) 22:31:26 No. 1193746 [Reply] [Last]
people really stress that you shouldn’t obsess over relationships or babies for happiness. what’s the alternative? obsessing over material possessions ? some vague sense of self contentment?
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>>1193746 I wonder who
Describe /pol/ in one picture
>>1193746 Happiness is a bourgeois emotion, abolish it from your conscience.
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>>1193746 >he has a problem with vibing

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I hate the reactionary men from my country Anonymous 12/03/2020 (Thu) 14:06:00 No. 1192519 [Reply] [Last]
the reactionary men in Pakistan are the absolute worst group of Muslim men in the world, they embody everything wrong with Muslim culture and Western culture at the same time, they watch porn, they use anti-feminist rhetoric but they talk about being Ghazis(Islamic warriors and conquers) and meme about ghanznawe-hind while sucking up to Arabs and Turks, I mean Baloch, Pashtun and Sindhi men are also sexist and regressive but the vast majority of them are absolutely illiterate and live in absolute poverty and have no idea about the goings of the world, and cause of their massive rates of illiteracy they get manipulated easily in the name of Islam, meanwhile Muhajirs and Urdu speakers often make up the only educated population in Pakistan and they are the ones push for the regressiveness, while keeping the parts of western culture that personality benefits them, such as western style hyper-capitalism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RtaGbmZ834
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Based Pakicom poster can keep posting and find an outlet amongst comrades against her reactionary community!
>>1194766 You bring shame upon our great nation son Stay there while I go get the boot
>cults which kill you for deciding to leave lmao
>>1194766 Called it.

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