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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

Cybersocialism General Anonymous 08/12/2020 (Wed) 01:08:22 No. 765636 [Reply] [Last]
New /cybersocialism/ general since the old one has hit bump limit MANDATORY READING http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/ For a complete reading list, see: https://web.archive.org/web/20190806121249/http://reality.gn.apc.org/Readinglist.htm cockshott's website reading list is down, the only place you can see it now is on archive.org Cockshott's Patreon https://www.patreon.com/williamCockshott/ Cockshott's youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVBfIU1_zO-P_R9keEGdDHQ Cockshott's Blogs https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/ http://paulcockshott.co.uk/ This thread is for the discussion of cybersocialism, the planning of the socialist economy by computerized means, including discussions of related topics and of course the great immortal scientist himself, WILLIAM PAUL COCKSHOTT

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>computer planning requires a new ideology guise >obviously, ml is incompatible with computer planning, stalin personally gulaged all computers in soviet union
>>887658 Cockshott is closer to ML than you might think bro.
>>887568 >Looks like it's the old socialist calculation debate (which personally I've always believed KO'ed socialists and they never recovered with all their math and equations). Motherfucker is still living in 1920s huh >This is why there is a market and prices in MONEY to determine the superior product, not hours! <What is socially necessary labor time Bro if you need help to argue against this weak shit then you need to do some reading and thinking. Not hating just trying to help. Start here: https://www.marxists.org/archive/mandel/1967/intromet/index.htm
>>887658 Cockshott is basically a ML/maoist anyway
>You know remember Allin Cottrell exists.

/Lat!/ Anonymous 09/05/2020 (Sat) 01:00:37 No. 840293 [Reply] [Last]
coño Hilo Anterior: >>483387
Edited last time by CL_anon on 09/08/2020 (Tue) 15:28:59.
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>>877627 Hay milicias populares en Bolivia? No estoy tratando de hacer ver mal a Evo o que es un cobarde, pero tal vez si es que si se hubiera mandado un Allende la reaccion de los trabajadores hubiera sido mucho intensa y rapida contra los golpistas, tal vez incluso pudieron haber participado en un contragolpe con la ayuda del MAS y la parte del ejercito aun leal a Evo. Pero es entendible lo que hizo Evo y lo mas probable lo que la mayoria hubiera hecho, ademas le da un incentivo a sus partidarios a que sigan luchando contra el nuevo gobierno para que pueda volver a Bolivia.
Vizcarra en la vacancia : aquí estoy no me corro 5 minutos después se corre y deja a su abogado Ebin
Esto iría en /ig/ porque es un youtuber de peliculas anarkista, pero ha hecho una revisión sobre películas animadas soviéticas https://youtu.be/JNrcyt6Rn3M
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Jajaja esos gringos, eligiendo entre el fascismo encubierto y el fascismo cibernetico, si es que ya no viven/vivimos en el. https://youtu.be/XYbkfmbxnWc
Me pueden recomendar buenos libros de historia sobre América Latina o países de la región de autores socialistas/marxistas/izquierdistas etc., etc.? Estudié español en la universidad y me gustaría ampliar mis conocimientos de la región (no soy de allá).

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what's the deal with leftcoms? Anonymous 09/19/2020 (Sat) 10:23:11 No. 882304 [Reply] [Last]
can someone tl;dr what's the deal with the bordiga people? what do they want? i don't understand them, is the armchair meme true, that they just want to sit around and wait for communism to happen naturally or something? >inb4 read bordiga you can't make me read bordiga. his name makes me think of mediocre pasta and so I will not read bordiga.
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Left communism is essentially recognizing Communism for what it is rather than the historical “examples” of the Stalin Era USSR. A good portion of Marxist-Leninist are over reliant on conspiratorial thinking, I’m regards to COINTELPRO and The Black Book, and they rely on absurd excuses they themselves don’t even believe. No one with a shred of sense can say there’s actual democracy (either the false democracy of liberalism or a real socialist democracy) in the DPRK. Everything about the DPRK points towards it being some bizarre kind of Monarcho-Fascist state, yet they’re compelled to defend it regardless because Stalin’s centralization of power had left most global communist parties subsidiaries of the USSR. The thing is that for as much as Marxism-Leninism tauts itself as actually working, it’s very nature makes it impotent in the west. You’ll never convince a worker that Chinese Billionaires are “socialist billionaires”, or that the DPRK is anything other than the personal fiefdom of the Kim family. What workers may lack in formal education they make up for in plain commonsense. Hence Stalinism relies almost entirely on constructing fanciful narratives of Bourgeois brainwashing and historical revisionism to explain away its total impotence. Once they bought into the idiotic belief that Trotsky, of all people, was Pro-Nazi and that Stalin didn’t totally fuck up in Poland, they could train themselves to believe anything. The thing is I believe most of these people actually recognize the lies for what they are. None of them legitimately think that the people have any power in the DPRK, but it’s a combination of ego and fear of social ostracism that keeps them from speaking up.
why do leftcoms live rent free in the minds of online MLs? there's only a handful of them on the internet, and even fewer in real life
>>889725 >What leftcoms of the "Bordiga" or more appropriate Ultra-Leninist variety would you recommend? Particularly in recent times Bordiga was active for quite some time in the realm of theory and the party (ICP) is still active in Italy / southern Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Communist_Party#History >Until his death in 1970, Bordiga devoted himself to contributing to the task of reconstructing the theoretical and political basis of the Party. The "Fundamental Theses of the Party" (1951), "Considerations on the Organic Activity of the Party in a Situation which is Generally and Historically Unfavorable" (1965), "Theses on the Historic Duty, the Action and Structure of the World Communist Party" (1965), and "Supplementary Theses" (1966) gave the party its theoretical, political, and organizational structure. English translation of their website: https://www.international-communist-party.org/ The Damen splinter-tendency (who decided to side with the Luxemburgist position on the national question over the Leninist one in the 50s) is also healthy today, their international party, the ICT, also have a UK org btw - the CWO. The following is the ICT's page going over recent activities/history and also their Twitter-accounts: http://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2020-02-05/the-internationalist-communist-party https://twitter.com/leftcomorg https://twitter.com/battagliacom https://twitter.com/CWOUK Also just learned about this odd thing: >There have been several tendencies and organizations over the years which have more or less claimed their heritage to International (Italian) Communist Left or directly to the original International Communist Party. One of these tendencies, which started in 1981, is a group (expressly not a party) called 'n + 1' which publishes the review under same name and collects their volumes and booklet including articles and more detailed treatments of various subjects in the series "Quaderni Internazionalisti".

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Anonymous 09/22/2020 (Tue) 19:14:50 No. 891735 [Reply] [Last]
Ok but what if he actually pressed the nuclear button?
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>>891735 then we'll meet again don't know when don't know WHEEEEEEEEN but I know we'll meet again some sunny day...
I would run at the explosion fully naked and get tossed into a wall by a shockwave because I'm fucking done and so is the Earth so might as well try to sex up the mushroom cloud Real talk tho, Posadas would've been right
If I'm being bombed by crazy burgers inside some half assed submarine I would just push that button, I'm dead anyway
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We'd be all in heaven right now (also known as Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism).
>>891743 And then well build communism with5% of the population Just the way posadim is intented

Who would you meet if you had the chance, /leftypol/? unityfag 09/22/2020 (Tue) 18:20:35 No. 891501 [Reply] [Last]
Meeting your idols is cool and all but have you ever come face to face with the black and white drawing of Max Stirner guarding the gates to higher consciousness who told you to stop idling or else the world's gonna be destroyed? I didn't stop my idling. Now countries are burning and there's coronavirus everywhere. Should I stop idling or let the world be destroyed? I'd prefer the former all things considered but I think the latter will just continue. Which leftist favorite person would you meet if you had the chance to meet one? What would you say or ask? What would you do? Would you wet your pants? Try to impress them with a backflip but instead break your neck and die? My choice would not be picrelated, but he gives good advice on devotion to persons. You should read it. I want to see Antonio Gramsci and ask his opinion of the evil tankies in the east, record his answer and blast it through university intercoms so faggots get the fucking hint.
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>>891929 Based libfag
>>891942 You're right, jews like Costanza saw the kulaks as cattle
>Meet stalin. >"Hello Stalin!" >"Лорем ипсум долор сит амет, пер цлита поссит ех, ат мунере фабулас петентиум сит. Иус цу цибо саперет сцрипсерит, нец виси муциус лабитур ид. Ет хис нонумес нолуиссе дигниссим." >"uh..."
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>>891872 I dunno my dude, strongmen doing madlad shit tend to be popular as heads of revolutionary states, see also picrelated. Who'd like to meet the based frog? I remember Stalin telling Yezhov after the big party expulsions that they were excessive and that its not the way to do it (dude was kneedeep in booze often so maybe he was having a bad hangover or being a spy for the Reich or anything in between) Point is it happened and people hopefully learned to aim the purges accordingly >>891990 Jews are based, kulaks not so based
>>891501 I want to meet Karl Marx so bad (yeah I know the most obvious choice). Why? Because I want to ask him whether his critique of capitalism and the foundation of historical materialism is based mainly upon an ecological argument instead of just the alienation from labor like most humanist marxists parrot. I've been reading the works of ecological marxists lately, and am becoming more and more convinced that Marx main argument is consciously and fundamentally ecological

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Lyndon LaRouche Anonymous 09/21/2020 (Mon) 15:14:19 No. 888252 [Reply] [Last]
Can anyone give me a quick rundown on him? Was he based?
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>>888826 >At the same time, LaRouche’s own literary output began to assume a particular style of classically informed (Plato, Liebniz, and Schiller being particular touchstones) long-winded psychosis. A good example is the twenty-six-thousand-word treatise “The Sexual Impotence of the Puerto Rican Socialist Party,” which covers everything from Hegel and “the agony of self-consciousness” to LaRouche’s racist ramblings on Latin American “macho” culture. From here on out, this kind of prose would remain LaRouche’s métier. >Operation Mop-Up proved to be LaRouche’s exit from the Left, and he soon pivoted to the far right. Antisemitic conspiracy theories began occupying a more prominent part of the group’s output, with a cabal of the Rothschilds and the British aristocracy coming to occupy pride of place in LaRouche’s rantings. In 1976, the group ditched Lenin and Trotsky for Benjamin Franklin and Alexander Hamilton (unfortunately, what LaRouche thought of Lin-Manuel Miranda’s musical remains unknown). The group also began producing “intelligence reports” monitoring the far left, offering its services to the FBI. Even more startlingly, LaRouche began working hand in hand with the far right, launching a defense campaign of KKK member Roy Frankhouser, who would soon rise rapidly in the organization. >When Reagan came to power in 1980, LaRouche saw an opportunity for his particular brand of now far-right crankery, and eagerly affiliated himself with the Republican right. He was a major backer of the “Star Wars” Strategic Defense Initiative, an advocate of the most draconian responses to the AIDS crisis, and a Cold Warrior of the most bellicose variety.
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>Norman Bailey recalls that soon after he joined the National Security Council, he received a call from NSC officials asking him to talk to a group of followers of right-wing presidential candidate Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr. who were offering intelligence information to the agency. Bailey, then NSC's senior director of international economic affairs, said he found the visitors' intelligence on economics and foreign affairs surprisingly on target. >He said he met with LaRouche's followers numerous times in 1982 and 1983 in his Executive Office Building office, and three times with LaRouche himself -- including once for dinner at LaRouche's rented Loudoun County estate. Bailey said he circulated within NSC a well-researched position paper that two LaRouche followers wrote about fusion energy. "Some of them are quite good," Bailey said of LaRouche's associates. He said that he found them to be "useful" because of their "excellent" international contacts. >"They can operate more freely and openly than official agencies" such as the CIA, Bailey said. "They do know a lot of people around the world. They do get to talk to prime ministers and presidents." Bailey also has described LaRouche's organization as "one of the best private intelligence services in the world." >It's a view shared by others in powerful places in Washington. Through dogged work, the LaRouche organization has assembled a worldwide network of contacts in governments and in military agencies who meet regularly and swap information with them, officials and former members said. In Washington, the LaRouche group has spent the last several years currying favor with officials of the NSC, CIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, Drug Enforcement Administration, the military and numerous other agencies, as well as with defense scientists doing classified research, according to federal officials and ex-members of the LaRouche group. "They've made a very concerted effort to influence the government," said Richard Morris, counselor to Interior Secretary William Clark and formerly Clark's assistant when he was NSC chief. "Their influence never went beyond the mid-level. There's no way they could influence the president." >"They obviously want to impress, with their knowledge, people who are in the know in Washington," said Ray S. Cline, a former top State Department and CIA intelligence official who said he was approached by LaRouche associates in 1980 and has spoken with them a number of times since. "They're terribly eager to find somebody" in government to talk to. >The LaRouche group stepped up its presence in Washington about 1981, when President Reagan took office, and it has publicly promoted many of his initiatives in its publications and on Capitol Hill. ... >In an interview, Inman recalled the visit at his CIA office by LaRouche and his wife, Helga Zepp-LaRouche, who had just returned from Europe. He said that she gave enticing information about the West German Green Party, an antinuclear group. "At the time, nobody in intelligence was covering them at all," Inman said of the Greens. >Inman, now head of a Texas-based computer research organization, said the meeting was not extraordinary, because, as a CIA official, he sometimes met with people returning from overseas trips. He said he did not give information, but listened. Inman and other intelligence officials said they doubt the stories, widely circulated inside the LaRouche group, that the organization has informants inside the CIA who provide it with intelligence. Former associates said the organization dealt with several "cutouts," or intermediaries, who claimed they received confidential reports from the CIA. The code name for one supposed CIA contact was "Mr. Ed," said ex-associates, who added they know of no confirmation that the contact existed.

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>>888576 anyone who is socially conservative while advancing basic welfare capitalist policies is nazbol now
>>888826 Literally all the problems that have plagued the left since 1917 can be traced back to tr*ts
>>888846 >(unfortunately, what LaRouche thought of Lin-Manuel Miranda’s musical remains unknown) yuck

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Egypt's new capital Anonymous 09/22/2020 (Tue) 00:52:24 No. 889872 [Reply] [Last]
I heard some people online say that is a city just for porky. However the Egypt government claims that it will reduce overcrowding in Cairo. Who is right?
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>>891401 >>891914 >when you're so woke you play yourself
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>>891914 >>891925 The bulk of Egyptians live along the flood plains of the Nile and in the delta; the new city is intended to be in the desert away from the river
>>891914 Does this look like a desert to you nigga?
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>>891984 >>891959 Also you're technically wrong.

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Why did Trotskyism have to ruin what could have been a good socialist news site? Anonymous 09/18/2020 (Fri) 08:51:31 No. 878314 [Reply] [Last]
WSWS is like the ultimate proof of how toxic and cancerous trotskyism truly is. What could have been an amazing news site were it Maoist, or ML, or hell, even Orthodox Marxist; instead these faggots keep pushing down their hypersectarian route, shitting on almost all other communists, promoting themselves (utterly irrelevant cunts outside of their newspaper) as the leaders of the working class, incessantly shitting on the USSR even though it's been gone for thirty fucking years now and trotskyism continued to be an abject failure regardless. What kind of faggot would even be a trot in the year 1991+29? Everyone knew the entire point of being a trot was to be a "communist" that rabidly opposed the Eastern Bloc and implicitly supported the Anglos and more or less just be a socdem; but what's the fucking point of this ideology without a Soviet Union to oppose? And of course, without the USSR trots have become SO MUCH MORE irrelevant that half of them said "fuck it" and just went back to being regular MLs (while a quarter became regular neocons). Like, shit, trotskyism was doomed the second Maoism became popular with radicals, Maoism at least let you hate the USSR without outright worshipping an abject failure like Leon Trotsky (the entire point of course is to specifically follow the guy that lost, they'd have been stalinists were it the other way around). Honestly just watching these WoosWoos gags shit on unions constantly, shill their crappy party, defend that faggot Joe Scalice who's getting shit from other communists for being a pseudo-lib that shits on Filipino commies battling Duterte, and of course anyone that still says "Stalinist" three decades after the Cold War is more of a LARPer than people that walk around in Ushankas. Almost every fucking article ruined by the brainrot called Trotskyism, why? Does anyone know a non-faggy socialist news site?
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>>891467 >There was also no "public campaign" against the SGP, lol. 99,9% of all Germans don't even know they exist. They're are completely and utterly irrelevant. I figured as much, imagine being as fucking brazen as a trot lmao
Yeah they have bad takes, and yeah trots are gay, but unless you know a better site with equally wide scope, it's the best the English speaking world can offer. I'm all ears for Any alternative. I read them once a week, and I got into an argument with their version of Bob avakian once, so I don't like them, but they do tour, and have a reach with a coherent global message. as shitty and sectarian as that all may or may not be, it seems to be they got the 21st century newspaper part of what is to be done right.
>>878314 >Joe Scalice Did you watch his lecture? He defends his argument pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYXCRIRKRyU&t=1s
>>888814 Not to mention the Somerset case was in 1772
>trotskyists are the ones creating a fantastic news site that can't be matched by any other leftist group and you guys can't even deny it >"waaaah trots suck anyway cause they have different opinions and call out other tendencies to be phony waaah" Get fucked bitches. Make your own MLM third worldist stalinist whatever news site to surpass WSWS if you don't like it. If you can't, maybe your group is just inferior.

Need sources/papers on impact of free public transport Anonymous 09/22/2020 (Tue) 20:28:15 No. 891941 [Reply] [Last]
I am going to write a proposal for my party to make all public transport free nation wide (netherlands), and I need to finish it before the deadline coming Saturday. I would appreciate any articles/papers/info on the impact, costs, benefits, cost saving, increased passenger numbers etc etc, for cases where public transport was made free in an area of any size. Thank you in advance.

Rosa Luxemburg on self-determination Anonymous 09/21/2020 (Mon) 15:54:23 No. 888359 [Reply] [Last]
>[Her] radical internationalism led her to take questionable positions on the national question. For instance, concerning her native country, Poland, she not only opposed the call for Polish national independence raised by the “social-patriots” of Piłsudski’s Polish Socialist Party (PPS), but even rejected Bolshevik support for Poland’s right to self-determination (including the right to separate from Russia). Until 1914 she would base her views on “economistic” arguments: Poland was already integrated into the Russian economy, and therefore Polish independence was a purely utopian demand shared only by reactionary aristocratic or petty-bourgeois layers. >some years later, in her 1918 notebook on the Russian Revolution—which contains highly valuable criticisms of the Bolsheviks’ curtailments of democracy and freedom—she once again rejects any reference to the nation’s right to self-determination as “hollow, petty-bourgeois phraseology”. Was Rosa right here? Is the self-determination idea just an obstacle for international communism?
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>>891649 >How do you tell regular people that their country basically no longer exists What does it matter? There is nothing to tell you that you are living in "a country" other than symbols like flags and the language spoken. >How do you manage your unitary multinational state without it getting balkanized and without nationalism and chauvinism ever appearing again? Balkanization happens for various reasons which do not have to necessarily do with the existence of "nations" within the polity. National consciousness is something that is manufactured through propaganda and coercion, but can also be reinforced because language barriers can in themselves reinforce a sense of separateness, especially if that linguistic division also coincides with state persecution due to some historic hatred of other language groups for the group in question, or if one group attempts to impose its language and culture on the others, as, for example, the Magyar political and economic tried to do in late Habsburg Austria. Moreover, perceived "national divisions" are usually exacerbated by economic issues which can be due to historic persecution, or the national group belonging to a region which, based on historical or possibly climactic and geographic conditions, is economically poorer than the rest of the country. That sense of economic difference heightens the sense of oppression and distinctness felt by a national group, which can lead to national "awakening" if exploited by middle class and bourgeois propagandists among these regions.
>>891776 >Habsburg Austria Hungarian Kingdom* (which was a realm within the larger Habsburg Austro-Hungarian Empire)
>>891776 >What does it matter? There is nothing to tell you that you are living in "a country" other than symbols like flags and the language spoken. <i don't believe in the national spook therefore neither does anyone else
>>891813 Why would 3 countries merge? The only time I can conceive that happening is through a very destructive war. In such a case the populace is not going to be in a place to negotiate what their state is going to look like or not. You think Germans had any say in whether Germany was to be divided after World War II? Or, for that matter, did Americans have any say when the 13 Colonies were merged into the United States? Did Europeans have a say when the European Union was introduced and a common currency was instituted in the 1990s?
She was right on Poland, just like Dzerzhinsky was right on the SSRs Delete P*land

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