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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=bunkerchan

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What did Hitchens really think about Occupy WallstreetM Anonymous 03/30/2020 (Mon) 04:09:16 No. 405739 [Reply] [Last]
Christopher Hitchens was purposefully a bit of an enigma. A former trot who rose through three classes and then turned indistinguishable from a neocon when he supported invading Iraq, he then later seemed to be on the verge of turning back to the true left on his deathbed. After the financial crisis he wrote this analysis in 2009, sort of hedging his bets on whether socialism could make a comeback in the future: theatlantic.com/amp/article/307317/ And when he died in December 2011, (just a month after Occupy was famously evicted from NYC,) his last dying words were "downfall Capitalism," and then he even had the USSR"s anthem play at his funeral whrn it concluded as people left. He was determined to die in a way that kep people puzzled as if to troll us on his final thoughts. So what do you think Hitchens thought of Occupy? It's difficult to find reliable sources, and since he was dying he didn't seem to have written about it really. His time in public was more often spent on debating theists and telling them there was no God even while he was undergoing chemo, to cement his Anti-theist positions as his legacy rather than to clarify his Marxist legacy much. In fact, a little before he died he confided in an interview that "I'm no longer a socialist, but I am still a Marxist." (And he gave his reasons, which mostly relied on the premise that he thought the neoliberals had won, and the worldwide labor movements were dead. He also had become suspicious of the premise of solidarity if it meant getting along with Muslim immigrants after 9/11.) What is not clear is if Occupy was causing him to doubt his conclusion, because he was hearing about a new grassroots anti-capitalist movement in America via the news.

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Audio thread Anonymous 08/28/2019 (Wed) 14:29:26 No. 46642 [Reply] [Last]
Post audio sources
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Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZTIs268HXA
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Gwynne Dyer - The Geopolitics of Climate Change https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRLg8No0RVQ
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>What is consciousness? Dan Dennett https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm8M_xQrgCk
Here are some more audiobooks: https://mega.nz/#F!kQoj3aAB!pzO-m_eoVvBv1bSMj60NdQ It includes Capital volumes 1-3
>>385853 thanks

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nice socialist future 08/27/2019 (Tue) 13:42:58 No. 45251 [Reply] [Last]
post artwork for a nice socialist future

avoid, dread-mongering, collapse-porn and techno-phobia.
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>>217393 based. just started watching next gen. currently on season 2. it's basically space communism and it's awesome. never got into star trek before. got plenty of time now with the quarantine
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>>268834 Skyscrapers are also a very capitalist building. They go vertical because of the need to cram the population as densely as possible to make the more distributed economy work better. In socialism we'd keep production more local, since most things can be produced pretty locally, and we wouldn't need massive dense cities to function as distribution hubs like we do now. The veritcal nature of the buildings is also a natural restriction on access. Ideologically and practically speaking there are major benefits to having the big shots live all the way at the top. They can bypass traffic with helicopters, literally look down on everyone else, and it's much harder for the peasants to reach them with torches and pitchforks. Although if they do, there's no need for a guillotine, since a fall from that height will kill anybody, and porkies falling from buildings is loaded with meaning - pride goeth before the fall, the bigger you are the harder you fall, porkies doing mass suicide during market crashes, the mirror-like glass windows being shattered when the body is thrown through them just as the illusions of capitalism are being shattered...

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Soviet Afghanistan War Anonymous 03/22/2020 (Sun) 01:36:28 No. 384770 [Reply] [Last]
Why did it had to end like that, bros?
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>>405040 Well Anon I don't suppose we'll ever resolve our disagreement. Maybe the Afghan state would have survived after the Soviet withdrawal if the flow of arms and support hadn't been cut off. But this indicates to me that the best course of action from the beginning would have been to focus on training and arming the Afghans, and providing air support etc when necessary. Good talk though comrade.
>>402965 because he was more worried about preserving his position as a powerful leader of a big country, than of actually advancing the world communist movement. his opportunism led to the disintegration of Soviet socialism between 1956 and 1985 (at which point socialism could no longer be said to exist even in a residual form). the end of socialism led of course to the end of the Union itself in 1991. thanks Nikita
>>405168 This over-psychologizes the issue The fundamental problem with Kruschev was theoretical https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/1964/phnycom.htm Here I'll let mao lay it out for you
>>405186 no, I agree with Mao on that as well. I'm just speculating as to what may have driven him to do it. (are you a based mautist too?)
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>>405168 absolutely retarded. khrushchev and the USSR continued to support revolutions across the world, and they didn't turn off the socialism button in 1956. the USSR was socialist until the late 80s regardless of its many flaws (none of which are a product of evil cornman revisionising). khrushchev has been the scapegoat for brainlet ML/Ms who can't be bothered to study the USSR beyond entry level internet videos and espressostalinist blogposts, instead looking for an easy explanation as to why the USSR fell.

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Anonymous 03/30/2020 (Mon) 00:59:43 No. 405552 [Reply] [Last]
so i hear instacart workers are going on strike tommorow. if a general strike happens soon what will stop the bourgeoisie from conscripting the entire male population and forcing them to work in logistical roles? the average person will cheer for it and happily give up their sons to make sure food and medicine keeps coming to the stores, even western countries that have downplayed patriotism and nationalism for decades will switch on a dime and people will support it does marx have a proper answer to the conscription question? i think not. males will volunteer in droves even to keep the show going they only wish to fulfill their biological role of being replaceable and expendable. jannies plz don't delete my thread just because i attached thinking gorrila.jpg to it why do you hate this fucking gorilla so fucking much
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>>405552 not a jannie, but maybe crop out the cancerous twitter handle a the bottom m8?
>>405552 >from conscripting the entire male population and forcing them to work in logistical roles? except the people who have been laid off aren't all people with low end jobs. A lot of these people would consider these roles beneath them and refuse
>does marx have a proper answer to the conscription question? i think not. males will volunteer in droves even to keep the show going they only wish to fulfill their biological role of being replaceable and expendable. So how come strikes and shit has happened before. OP says this is true, so it must be, but history seems to be at odds with this assertion. I'm really having trouble reconciling OP's definitely true statement with the historical record. What contravening factors might change things enough to superficially make it appear as though OP is pulling this right out of his ass?
>>405597 >zoomer still doesn't understand conscription >zoomer still doesn't understand people with cushier jobs in the civilian world become officers to function as managers of the conscripts you are clueless
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>>405568 >Most people don't work for free for extended periods of time. Conscripts generally get paid. On the one hand, I can sort of see something like conscription coming into play to keep the economy moving if nothing else happens by Summer. Sort of a New Deal employment program, except people are forced to go do it. But, I'm also pretty sure that's the same part of me that believes in reptilians so probably not accurate.

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Alunya and the Political Ideology Catgirls Anonymous 03/05/2020 (Thu) 00:59:29 No. 326378 [Reply] [Last]
Last thread ( >>71758 ) hit the post limit and got bumplocked. Post your catgirls here instead.
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>>400150 lol I remember gorilla posting
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>>399268 Focus less on eyes. If you're going to draw eyes, then do so with variety and from guides. I have this habit as well. The most it amounts to is doodling.

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Anonymous 03/29/2020 (Sun) 17:09:38 No. 404617 [Reply] [Last]
I saw Max Stirner at a grocery store in Friedrichstadt yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen milk cartons in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the cartons and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each as individuals, unique in their own “to prevent any electrical spookering,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
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that's something he would do actually
> to prevent any electrical spookering smh should have been spooky action at a distance
>>404617 based
>>404636 kek't

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Anonymous 03/29/2020 (Sun) 03:27:34 No. 403632 [Reply] [Last]
what was his fucking problem?
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How can you take anyone seriously, when this is unironically your flag? You can't.
>>405598 >only Chinease people can be retarted okay rascist
>>405598 Off topic and not that guy, but was Beria a rapist or was that fiction?
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>>405601 nah, you posted the wrong flag, pic related is the real nazbol flag
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>>405521 some dude name Emmanuel Carrère wrote something on him that looks cool >>405600 As opposed to what? The anarchist state of petite-bourgalonia? >>405607 pic related is real nazbol flag

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Freedom of Speech Sage#+GbZOp 03/28/2020 (Sat) 18:20:20 No. 402849 [Reply] [Last]
I want to have a real in depth discussion about the lefts relationship to freedom of speech. I want to start it off by talking about the French revolution. Robespierre and his Jacobins achieved power as part of a sort of coalition, between themselves, the Girondins and the Sans Culottes, representing (roughly) two wings of the middle class, apirational artisans, lawyers, doctors, small property owners, (jacobins and girondin, the Jacobins being the more radical of the two) and the urban poor- Sans Cullottes. The Jacobins eventually lost power, the Girondin eventually siding with counter revolution and couping them out of power. The Girondin were only able to do this as the Jacobins had severed their ties with the sans culottes, who made the bulk of the street movement base which supported the revolution. While the Girondins thought the Jacobins went too far, the Sans Cullotte thought the Jacobins didn't go far enough. The Jacobins suppressed them both, destroyed print shops, imprisons leaders, etc etc. Had the Jacobins not done this, they could have probably maintained power with the support of the Sans Culotte. I want you to think about this. Yes, it is sometimes correct for a communist party in power to censor certain ideas, suppressing fascism is fine. But what of when the dissenters are on our side? What if the dissenters are actually our base? Suppressing that dissent could spell the end of the revolution. I think this idea ties into the idea of a broad united front. On top of that, in his book Towards a New Socialism talks about how free speech is necessary as a feedback process to achieve accurate production quotas and so on.
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>>402961 You have to forget the notion that you can defeat fascism by reason or because your ideas are right and good. The argument for fascism is not a rational one, but a value judgement that is irreconcilable with any value we would hold dear. You can debunk their facile arguments all day, but they will just invent new ones. As it turns out, their core arguments are largely supported by a lot of institutional ideology, though again a faulty understanding of "fascism" obscures just how common their ideology is. Too many people assumed fascism was goose-stepping and faggy uniforms, but that was merely the window dressing appropriate to that historical epoch. The sympathizers of Hitlerism did smart to find ways to worm into the culture, and it started immediately after WW2 as Nazi intellectuals were rolled in to the anticommunist crusade. Slowly, they were able, with the assistance of liberals weary of the public's demands, to normalize the assumptions and premises on which Hitlerism operated, while officially proclaiming that they reviled Hitler. One of the earliest PR coups indeed was to paint the Nazis as a historically unique aberration, and to pin all of the Nazis' excesses on Hitler's character, while any deeper understanding of the thorough degeneracy of the fascist movement was suppressed. The rise of fascism was turned into a moral fable about Hitler's meanness towards the Jews, conveniently stripping away American and British complicity in letting the Nazi takeover happen and the sympathy of many prominent American industrialists and financiers. Such a course of action was necessary, because too much honesty would expose the crimes of American eugenicists, and if left unchecked it probably would have led to prominent eugenists being publicly lynched by a mob. It took a great deal of FUD and misdirection to divert an angry public away from these people who were quite visibly worming their way into the culture. By 1970, the project to rehabilitate eugenism and the Nazis was in full swing, finding a ready ally in social imperialists who would claim these policies only applied to the Third World. By 1980, it has ascended into the popular consciousness through one of the most complex cultural infiltrations in history, and by the 1990s it was going utterly apeshit and prepared the ground for a full-on assault against the poor. Every crisis since then has come ready with plans to destroy what liberty the lowest classes had. In the long run, the only way to sustain this push is to move more and more towards overt Hitlerism, because the norms of liberal government - like, for instance, something resembling fair trials, due process, or the ability to appeal to representatives - would stymie the progress of the most egregious measures, those that go beyond the pale even after all of the indoctrination and normalization of the utter depravity we see today.
>>403683 So, you're saying national-socialism wasn't extant before the interwar period, but is somehow embedded in our culture somewhere now? That's interesting. Give me an example of a fascist idea peddled by the mainstream media under the guise of Liberalism.
>>403714 The precursors to fascism were evident in the aims of movements that had a lot of currency in 19th and early 20th century American and Britain, and to an extent throughout Europe. In short, it appeared the moment it was (a) technologically possible, and (b) in nations that faced severe unrest and were ruled by unstable governments, whereas these plans would have run into pushback if they were unleashed in full in America or Britain. There is an argument to made that Hitlerism itself was just a very deformed form of liberalism, and liberals of that time were openly sympathetic to things like eugenics and imposing social order. In short, the old concept of liberty, at least slightly believed by liberals, became more and more an open farce, even in the liberal countries. That is why liberalism during and after WW2 degenerated into increasingly infantile states, performing the roles and routines of liberal "freedom" while caving incessantly to pressure from the right. This is where you start to hear things like "durr Nazis deserve free speech too" and other infantile takes, as if liberals had any objection to beating down socialists, trade unionists, or just beating down the rabble in general. Probably the most obvious example of fascism being sold en masse is the popularization of population control theory among liberals, which has led gradually towards an increasing embrace of warmongering and the worst excesses of the Bush regime. I'm old enough to remember a time when, generally, principled liberals were opposed to the Bush war machine, or at least believed that it was overextending the Empire and squandering resources that were better spent elsewhere. So, in my lifetime, I've seen the liberals degenerate into a barely recognizable frothing mess, where before there was something resembling an actual ideology and belief system, and how readily the liberals of today support every police state measure should be alarming. I suppose 40 straight years of getting their shit kicked in, to the point where liberal is a worse slur than socialist, does something to people.
>>403602 Good post, I think this ties in with the idea of “totalitarianism” people think that somewhere like North Korea or the USSR the government controlled literally every aspect of your life, but it’s actually just not possible feasible or even desirable for a real system bound by material concerns. Although I still do think looking at fictional portrayals can be valuable obviously we have to understand where fiction and reality are separate but this post is correct.
>>402849 Censorship should never be an option of a socialist society. Not only is there the ever present threat that it will be used to target left dissidents who speak out against compromises or revisionism, but it is also not a good weapon against rightism or untruth. If the establishment ignores some idea or theory while keeping it underground as much as possible, then no one becomes inoculated against it, and the very fact that is targeted becomes some evidence for its truth. First the material conditions that would allow fascist or counterrevolutionary ideas to grow should be dealt with, then the population should be inoculated against them. Give people an extremely in-depth knowledge of the idea then show them exactly why it's incorrect/will not contribute towards their self-interest. Censorship will always be an uphill and incomplete battle whereas universal inoculation can ultimately succeed without also having the danger of being a weapon against truth or freedom of ideas and dissent, since if there are serious left dissidents, then there would have to be truth to their complaints and it would not be possible to brush them away the same way you could with a manipulative ideology like fascism that is built on lies.

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Foucault Anonymous 03/29/2020 (Sun) 11:30:26 No. 404069 [Reply] [Last]
redpill me on prison guy. what do people here think of him? what are some of his ideas that are valid? what are some that is dead wrong? on scale of 1-10 how based is he.
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I see a lot of people writing about Foucault's idea of governmentality. What is the best thing of his to read about this direct from the source, so to speak?
>>405438 please go on about the social contract being bull lmao >>405442 >don't shoot the messenger The difference here is that post-modernism is not a real thing
>>405463 Please kill yourself
>>405482 nod an argumint :DDDD
>>405456 This is the source of the concept and the best explanation of it. It's also the point where he moves beyond his disciplinary theory of power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security,_Territory,_Population

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