/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

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Anonymous 10/14/2020 (Wed) 12:58:27 No. 997004 [Reply] [Last]
>ML bait threads and posts which enforce the myth that MLs are red totalitarian communazis >anarchist bait threads and posts which enforce the myth that anarchists are sectarian anticommunist liberals >/pol/ using this same tired tactic for years thinking /leftypol/ hasn't caught on years ago >newfags fall for it anyway despite countless examples of ML-anarchist unity in various modern conflicts Please lurk just a little more, amigos.
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>>997004 >what's catalonia
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>>1000860 An area of Spain which was a hotbed for revolutionary activity and whose anarchists, in their magnificent bouts of autism, started fighting against the rest of Spanish republicans. As a result Spain got 40 years of fascism and is a kingdom to this day.
>>997004 The issue is there are a few hyper sectarian spammers posting multiple threads a day and shitting up good discussions.
>>1000780 IM GONNA SAY IT, IM GONNA SAY THE N-WOR-
>everyone I don't like is /pol/ Complete reddit mindset. Maybe some people just have retarded views?

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Anonymous 10/15/2020 (Thu) 01:00:56 No. 999102 [Reply] [Last]
In an ideal advanced Socialist society, how would the purchase of luxury goods work?
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>>999447 Then these are simply not labor vouchers. Read more.
>>1000129 Poland had as system like this. You paid money to the PKO, then the state held lotteries for a car. With every car producers you had one in a thousands chance od getting it. Sadly the production was way behind. The supply was far behind the demand.
>>1000129 >Lottery. Randomly you are granted the chance to spend your labour vouchers on the specific luxury good. If you pass it up, the chance goes to someone else. I like this idea, but what happens with these luxury goods after they got randomly dispersed into the population. Specifically schemes with questionable methods for contracting luxury goods.
>>999191 can you consooom my ass?
>>1000470 Yeah, unless you somehow achieve a 100% enlightened population.

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RDW is a reactionary Anonymous 10/01/2020 (Thu) 22:08:24 No. 929265 [Reply] [Last]
Yeah, so, I watched his latest vid, and it became perfectly clear to me that RDW was a Proudhonist at best, non-Marxist market-fetishist at worst. Hatch for yourself, and have the audacity to tell me that this person is a Marxist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiMvcpRPUNE One of his (ideological) moves is to equate the Soviet factory, wherein a factory manager (called by Lenin: factory dictator, from DotP) is the same as the CEO or the "board of directors" (i.e. shareholders) in a capitalist company. This is provably false, lol. Then, another of his "magical steps" takes us to the conclusion that: >USSR economy = 21st century capitalist economy = B.A.D. Seriously, dude, why does ANYBODY take this faggot seriously?! His whole Proudhonist shill just amounts to shitting on Actually Existing Socialism (AES) and propagating for "le pseudo-alternative"... I would like to bring your attention to the following fact: IT WAS THE FUCKING 20TH CENTURY COMMUNISTS WHO CREATED THE LARGEST COOP-SECTORS IN EXISTENCE, MUCH BROADER AND MUCH MORE "EGALITARIAN" THAN RDW'S SHILLING FOR A »COOP UNDER CAPITALISM«. FUCKING FACT: 20TH CENTURY SOCIALIST PROJECTS CREATED THE MOST DIVERSE AND MOST SUBSTANTIAL COOPS KNOWN TO HUMAN HISTORY!!! >inb4 RDW/Vaush-tier responses burn in hell, honestly

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>>999335 The thing about central vs decentral is that it's a false dichotomy. Some things are better managed centrally like heavy industry. Some things are better managed locally like maintenance and repair work. As the economy develops, the organization level at which planning is optimal will shift (e.g. manufacturing processes make centralized production better or allow for the wide distribution of MoP), and the system should be able to adapt appropriately. Cybernetics can help with this. You can set up the system to direct planning decisions wherever the decision making is more relevant or efficient.
>>999335 the ussr had coops though
>>999335 kek, OP is so embarrassed rn
>>929265 IMO he doesn't actually believe what he's saying and is saying retarded shit on purpose to try to appeal to Burgers. It's the more intellectual cousin of "Not real socialism/Stalin was a fascist!" - rather then repeating it because he's an emotional undereducated weenie I'd wager he's instead taking the position that Yankees are fucking retarded ultra-individualists easily exploitable by dumb emotional propaganda and to get them to do anything at all requires watering down the message and making it palatable to their pety-bourgeois anglo mush brains. I personally don't agree with him for reasons that I stated in the "Marxism doesn't need stalin" thread. Playing defensive is a losing strategy in politics, nobody respects it and frankly the entire point behind "Stalin killed x billion" argument is less to associate Socialism with atrocities and more to bog us down into arguing from a position of weakness in order to make us look like weenies. In 21st century post truth world image and aesthetics are everything, actual facts/truth are meaningless, and no amount of wishing can change this. The only way to win people over in a decaying apocalyptic clownworld is to argue from a position of total strength, appear sickeningly confident, constantly push the political offensive (never play defensive) and always, ALWAYS project the image that you are winning, even if you're not. Whether you lose a "debate" factually is inconsequential so long as you followers & a good portion of people on the sidelines think that you won. The far right grasped these truths over a decade ago and have been playing the long game. RDW is playing a losing game.
>>1001068 I think RDW rarely presents his ideas in a totally Marxist framework, he kind of just appeals to people’s crude self interest (for lack of a better way to put it), as well as a kind of liberal emphasis on how democracy is inherently just. But RDW has definitely read Marx, and he calls himself a Marxist, which is why a lot of people think he is trying to craft rhetoric for a certain intended audience. It’s also kind of obvious in the way he seems to avoid veering into anything too technical or academic, he always tries to be as common sense and colloquial as he can be. But as for Proudhon and Lassalle, I really don’t think it is so simple to say that RDW is just being a Lassallean. First of all, Marx and Engels were not against co-ops as such. Engels wrote in a letter in 1886 to August Bebel: > Marx and I never doubted that in the transition to the full communist economy we will have to use the cooperative system as an intermediate stage on a large scale. Lassalle specifically wanted the state to support the creation of co-ops, but through a kind of state aid program. Marx and Engels always emphasized that cooperatives had to arise from the worker’s movement, because the Marxist revolutionary strategy involved always building the class consciousness of the workers. They always considered communism to be a mass movement and a historical one. The masses themselves had to be engaged, because they would not be turned to communism by simple debate or argument. They had to experience the struggle against capital to understand their shared interest against it. So in order to not dilute that, Marx and Engels saw a programme that emphasized state aid as confusing the workers on the role of the state, making them believe that it actually did serve them. However, they also said they would not reject state aid, as that would also confuse the workers on what the position of the communists was (why would our allies tell the government not to give us money?) Furthermore, Marx told the first international that the cooperative movement in England was a greater victory for the working class than the success of achieving the ten hour workday: > But there was in store a still greater victory of the political economy of labor over the political economy of property. We speak of the co-operative movement, especially the co-operative factories raised by the unassisted efforts of a few bold “hands”. The value of these great social experiments cannot be overrated. By deed instead of by argument, they have shown that production on a large scale, and in accord with the behests of modern science, may be carried on without the existence of a class of masters employing a class of hands; that to bear fruit, the means of labor need not be monopolized as a means of dominion over, and of extortion against, the laboring man himself; and that, like slave labor, like serf labor, hired labor is but a transitory and inferior form, destined to disappear before associated labor plying its toil with a willing hand, a ready mind, and a joyous heart. In England, the seeds of the co-operative system were sown by Robert Owen; the workingmen’s experiments tried on the Continent were, in fact, the practical upshot of the theories, not invented, but loudly proclaimed, in 1848. So Marx and Engels were definitely in favor of cooperatives, but what they disagreed with Proudhon and Lasalle on was the details of how they were implemented, because they understood Proudhon and Lasalle to not have the same understanding of revolutionary strategy.

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ladies and gentelmens,we did it Anonymous 10/15/2020 (Thu) 13:37:37 No. 1000833 [Reply] [Last]
We have reached one million replies on the bunker! This is a glourious day,a good day For bunker chan And without more presentation,WELCOME THE 1.000.000 POSTER! >>1000000
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>>1001044 Whats with north korea and potato?
>>1001044 The party is pleased with your taste in music
>>1001270 Guy in bottom left is about to shoot himself
>>1000833 Mainly due to /polyp/ infestation but gulags weren't built in a day.
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Onwards to new triumphs!

Anonymous 10/15/2020 (Thu) 15:12:02 No. 1001188 [Reply] [Last]
Is it moral to kill communists? Locked for low effort bait
Edited last time by Zer0 on 10/15/2020 (Thu) 15:32:23.
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Reminder that leftypol does not respond to beta males. /pol/ fags post CHIN & prove you're not a beta male faggot or GTFO.
>>1001221 Good post agent Callaghan
>>1001265 >being this obsessed with chins got something to hide?
>>1001263 She isn't talking about the holocaust, she is talking about the invasion of the USSR where nazis simply killed and raped everything in sight.
>>1001188 If communists are inhuman and not really people, then their actions cannot be given any morality either, like a hurrican or earthquake, their "victims" are merely natural occurrences. If you want to hold them accountable for this then you have to admit they are human as well, and that you are consciously willing to end the life of another human

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So what is the rebuttal of the Economic Calculation Problem? Anonymous 10/10/2020 (Sat) 19:43:18 No. 979317 [Reply] [Last]
Is there any comprehensive debunking of Mises/Hayek's ECP? There are too many Austrian lolberts in my polecon class and the ECP is something these chuds always bring up.
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>>982603 >The best way to test if the economy can be calculated is to just set up a computer cluster and see how it compares to the economy, or something? The hard part of planned economy is making everyone actually follow the plan, you can't test that on a computer
Assertions made without evidence can be disregarded without evidence.
>>997558 >We only have now experts evaluations method apart from basic extrapolation of course
>>997558 i'm more familiar with developments in my own field using machine learning (physics). there's actually some very cool work from a group that used word2vec on abstracts for papers that measured a particular material property for various materials and then predicted what materials would be likely to be published in the future wrt to that specific measured property. by the time they presented the results at a conference, 2/3 (iirc) of their top candidates were already on arxiv as preprints. there's definitely a lot of potential i think for predicting trends in publication. but, i am not sure that is useful outside of novelty. predicting trends in publication is not the same as predicting scientific progress, especially if we're talking about breakthroughs. i have seen some similar approaches being applied to predicting a room temperature superconductor, though, which is cool. hopes for a artificial general intelligence is just a meme, though. we are just playing around with very complex statistical models that at best may mimic a very small subset of what we may interpret as intelligence even if it's just pattern recognition reinforced by known properties when it comes down to it. the valuable use cases are better seen as a collection of models designed for specific independent tasks rather than a unified general model for all tasks. some people refer to it as "weak" ai, but i haven't met many researchers that that actually use the term (i have been to icml a few times).
>>997558 >technological progress forecasting This is a non-trivial problem. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-armed_bandit

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Anonymous 10/15/2020 (Thu) 13:56:17 No. 1000896 [Reply] [Last]
I've always wondered why /pol/ seems to be unaware of things like Gladio or how so many of the guys supposedly fighting the global capitalist/jewish system integrated into it so well. Wondering if this is like an aftereffect of general John Birch Society sentiments or something.
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>>1000896 They don't care about the truth, just spreading their ideology. That's why there's no point arguing with them.
>>1000934 >alt right = Zionist = Neomarxist Throwing a bunch of shit on the wall and seeing what sticks?
>>1000896 >>1000899 >>1000907 You guys should consider leaving your echo chamber once in a while http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/text/Gladio/
>>1001028 MOckingbird has +8000 results and COINTEL or Cointelpro has collectively +12000 results, All together those are 20,000, which is 5-6x the number of results on gladio.

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What do you guys think of red hot catholic communism? Anonymous 10/08/2020 (Thu) 22:46:42 No. 971850 [Reply] [Last]
Are you a practicing Catholic and communist? If so how and why?
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>>985529 Die spook
distributism is based
>>999835 No, it is not, and I say this as a Catholic. It's and almost meaningless word that essentially translates to soft capitalism. We have to more critical and always look to the horizon anon.
>>999664 >The Catholic church helped nazis escape. Antisemitism in Europe arose because of the crusades Antisemitism is in firm contradiction with the teachings of the catholic church. I never claimed catholics weren't infected by pr*d heresy, merely that you are said infections source. >muh Franco fascism is an inherently protestant ideology, whether Franco admitetd it or not Christ sent the Apostles and sends his disciples to minister to all corners of the earth.
i wasn't anti-catholic until i started browsing leftypol

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/Lat!/ Edicion "Hijos del Peronismo" Kyuseishun 10/15/2020 (Thu) 13:43:35 No. 1000853 [Reply] [Last]
Saludos desde Argentina Camaradas, se que estamos viviendo tiempos dificiles en muchas regiones de nuestra patria grande, ¿como se procede en estos tiempos interesantes? Aca en argentina esta todo preparado para una mega devaluacion y estallido social similar al 2001, honestamente no estoy ni economicamente , ni mentalmente preparado ya tenemos un hilo /lat/ aca, revisa el catalogo antes de postear un hilo repetido >>840293
Edited last time by CL_anon on 10/15/2020 (Thu) 13:54:23.

Consultation on the possible creation of a /leftyb/ Anonymous Board volunteer 10/13/2020 (Tue) 02:02:18 No. 991021 [Reply] [Last]
Hello everyone, there's been some disputes lately over how 'super serious' leftypol should be, to what extent should we allow shitposting, and so on. So we're musing over the possibility of creating a leftyb board (or there might be better names for it, I thought 'glasnost' could be funny) to contain more shitposty topics. That said, we are not really sure, so what do you think of this idea? To answer some FAQ >Why not /GET/ /GET/ isn't ours, the reason we did not make a /b/ upon arrival here was close cooperation between the runners of /GET/ and /leftypol/. Since then things have gotten more contentious, at least some on the /GET/ team are hostile towards /leftypol/ and have made gestures towards leaving bunkerchan altogether. Thus we cannot rely on them, and we are trying to respect their boundaries by distancing ourselves from them in order to remain friendly. >But leftypol seems ok There has been an increase in the number of low quality posts and talk of fixing the as of now broken minimum character limit. This was already voted on a year ago, so you will have no say in the matter. Many threads people are taking for granted now would not be allowed under stricter rules. The runners are generally more in favor of keeping /leftypol/ strictly quality controlled than letting it become a cesspool or '/b/ with politics'. Thus the need to establish a '/b/ with politics'. >what about: [other board] we're open to hearing suggestions but the main antagonism is the one described above
Edited last time by zulveta on 10/13/2020 (Tue) 15:46:47.
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>>999203 dilàte uighur
>>996560 >>996593 >>996602 >>996625 Signal-boosting support for a serious textboard.
>>997100 Okay, it's an accident, and accidents happen. But it was one of the best threads around (full with good ass economics, politics, debate, etc.)... I demand an official apology from the mods, stickied for 2 days.
>>997363 name 1 thing wrong with that pic PROTIP: you can't
>>1000669 We deeply regret the error. Steps have been taken to ensure it will not happen again.

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