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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion.

IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan
https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=bunkerchan

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Strategies for breadpilling Anonymous 01/05/2020 (Sun) 19:43:24 No. 199248 [Reply] [Last]
What are some effective strategies to get ordinary liberals or even centrists further to the left? I'd like to discuss some strategies we can individually use to spread socialism.
Tying Socialist ideas to relevant problems in their lives without using jargon is probably your best bet.
normal people don't care about ideology, make sure to appeal as to how YOU can directly help THEM
Don't use Marxist terminology, speak directly.
>>199248 Simple, talk about the things behind socialism like how the problem isnt taxes "rich" people and its actually the problem of private ownership that allows people to accumulate wealth and buy politics. Don't say any retarded queer theory or ID-pol shit because only a few people in huge cities actually care. You could also bring up how capitalism has only actually survived because it needed a state to issue private property and make a currency for everyone to use. If you encounter a faggot conservative who is die hard trump just ask him for a definition of capitalism, socialism and then communism.
>>199409 it truly is amazing how effective it is to request simple definitions. obviously don't autistically demand a list of them, but you'll be surprised at how few people can provide even one.

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Should we make a rule against sectarian infighting/off-topic derailing? Anonymous 01/05/2020 (Sun) 14:22:44 No. 198764 [Reply] [Last]
I'm pretty sure you know the situation already. >Discussing something about a non-related issue. >Someone manages to transform the argument into "fucking tankies" or "fucking anarkiddies". >The subject is abandoned because of sectarian infighting, not reaching a concensus. >The thread becomes a shitstorm. This tactic is used by glowies or retards to stop actual discussion just to redirect the conversation into something not dangerous to the statu quo or directly harmful to the socialist organization. The only thing that sectarian infighting does it put people off the movement to avoid useless drama (and not only sectarian infighting, but also idpol discussion is guilty of this), look at what happened when the old BO went all out against what he considered imperialists and such, the only thing that it achieved is to kill the popularity of /leftypol/, and making it so we fell from the 3rd most populated place on 8ch into I don't know what position. Instead of looking outwards, against the problems of capitalism and criticizing reactionaries, we're looking inwards, into the organization itself, into useless drama, deslegitimizing our cause to the look of others. What should we do to prevent this, maybe make a "sectarian gulag" like with the idpol one and such, specialized thread? What do you think?
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>>199392 So you want a ban on shitposting outside that thread. Who amongst us doesn't shitpost?
>>199403 I picked bad examples in my post. I just don't want to avoid threads getting derailed by anarchists and MLs having the same tired debates.
>>199403 Me, actually. All of my posts are A+ quality, check em out.
>>199417 post the link to your account d00d
No, we shouldn't make a rule moderating your subjective measure of the quality of discourse.

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Anonymous 01/05/2020 (Sun) 22:19:36 No. 199439 [Reply] [Last]
Where do I get factual information about history and societies in regards to socialism / communism / anarchism? I need a perspective untainted & unwarped by capitalist propaganda.
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Marxistinternetarchive.org Anarchistlibrary.org Look up information about Anarchist catalonia, The Zapatistas in Mexico, The paris commune, Korean Anarchist association, ukraine. There's also many good books about the soviet union. Really go to our sticky.
>>199454 Oh, yeah. I forgot about the sticky. >There's also many good books about the soviet union. Any recommendations? China would be interesting as well.
Read Black Shirts and Reds by Michael Parenti Easy to find on libgen
>>199439 Not here
>>199439 Finnbols site is pretty good on marxism/communism/socialism Plenty of articles and pdfs, especially his real history of socialism section. https://mltheory.wordpress.com Less good on anarchism, but there's a lot of that on libcom.org

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"Marx was an Anarcho-Capatilist" Anonymous 01/05/2020 (Sun) 10:31:19 No. 198568 [Reply] [Last]
I'm seeing this argument increasingly used online. The argument goes Marx believed that Communism was the next step after capitalism had produced the most efficient version of itself. Also sights his belief in free trade etc. How do you respond to this Critique
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>>199148 If you were to implement labour vouchers and don't want to wait until you can have a world government that allows you to roll this out everywhere at once, then you will need to fix prices for the part of the economy that is planned while there is trade with economies still using markets and independently acting units
Marx would have been a Ron Paul head
>>198568 Marx was not for labour money. That is a mutualist idea which Marx explicitly criticized. Marx argued for non-circulating labour certificates. The word money implies circulation.
>>198568 I respond with "take your meds" or "are you retarded?"
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>>198573 Retards, like Nick Faggot, believe Marxists are infiltrating the government. There disconnected from reality there is no convincing them other than a bullet.

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Anonymous 12/31/2019 (Tue) 17:35:12 No. 192598 [Reply] [Last]
happy new years fagolas. make a wish for what you want to see on /leftypol/ in the new year
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>>193120 >https://leia.5ch.net/poverty/ >left-wing Japanese board This is great news!
>>193089 It does but they get drowned out by libs and alt-right cargo cultists. /ussr/ was created to facilitate leftist discussion without retarded children, but it's not been very active
>>192598 someone here to take down /pol/ entirely
>>193145 Its so fucking sad that we saw such a massive decline in culture on 4chan. Like god damn there is a huge difference between the two it is tragedy. There is nothing creative anymore its just fucking pepe and wojack edits.
>>193145 No shit. Go to /v/ right now and you will see how 99% of the threads are advertisements. It feels like no one actually post in there but shills.

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How to covert right wingers to Marxism Anonymous 01/05/2020 (Sun) 22:28:39 No. 199451 [Reply] [Last]
How to convert former fringe right wingers to Marxism 101: Profit gives people that are not part of the political state an insane amount of power to follow their own interests. --> Because they got money from non politics related ways, these interests are bad for the nation. Can these capitalists in theory also do good things with this money? Yes. But very likely they wont so why instead of gambling, just remove that option. If these "good" capitalists are, by chance, nationalists, they will voluntarily surrender their private property to the nation. If not, then they dont have the best interests for the nation in mind. In Marxist terms, personal property is stuff you use yourself for your own personal wants and needs. Private property is property that you own in order to extract value from other laborers so like a capitalist owning the means of production. Unfortunately this causes too much power in a small amount of people and you get the situation which is today
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>>199451 You don't. A sensible goal is to move everyone one step to the left while blocking, isolating our enemies. Make the passive opposition neutral, make neutrals passive supporters, activate passive supporters, and radicalize the actives. I'm afraid I do not have the pic with this idea drawn on it. I'd appreciate it greatly if someone could post it. As I see it, there is little point in attempting to convert the other extreme, their radicalism is entrenched and they surely will not listen to their perceived enemies. One might theoretically trick them to ask the right questions from themselves. After all, we all love to hear our own thoughts on matters. But, such efforts are relatively costly when compared to the masses of more willing audience one could convince. >>199465 The danger is in them potentially becoming """anti-capitalists""" like the nazis of old. I've started to see the appropriation of left-wing talking points by fascists recently, which has raised my concern. A shift from "we'll protect freedom and capitalism from those commies" to "we'll protect your community from (((capitalism))) and (((communism)))". Those snakes lie, twist, bend, and pervert anything and everything if it happens to be popular and convenient to them.
>>199456 Yeah don't call it private property. Call it corporate property or something.
>>199472 hey, nice to see my work being spread
>>199741 this. no matter how hard we try, those /pol/tards don't get that personal property isn't private property.
>>199741 >>199456 Maybe don't call it "property" at all. Maybe we should find a better term that encapsulates the idea of absentee ownership and preventing people from working to live unless they let you take what's basically rent out of their earnings.

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Anonymous 01/06/2020 (Mon) 02:20:33 No. 199761 [Reply] [Last]
So, is imperialism still the primary contradiction? Strikes me that one could argue that imperialist actions from Russia, the US and China are proving less antagonistic than the internal contradictions within smaller states. What say you?

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Anonymous 01/05/2020 (Sun) 20:40:46 No. 199317 [Reply] [Last]
Maybe not tomorrow, but in the next 10 years. It's gonna be scary.
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>>199317 Think about just how much the world changed between 2010 and 2019. Indeed, it will be terrifying.
>>>>199319 Thanks.
>>199317 It will. Not atomic explosions scary, but Great Depression, wars, collapse scary.
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>>199319 Lol'd
>>199317 Wow how did you get this future pic of me purging the roaches?

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leftist memes anon 01/05/2020 (Sun) 21:57:00 No. 199411 [Reply] [Last]
actual funny ones,absurdist and esoteric ones
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And some obligatory Sniffman
>>199550 Glad to see that spurdo comic updated for the times
>>199550 >First pic "USSA" Comic meme-song: https://youtu.be/d8MpCIebBVc
Or last one I mean, the updated one with spurdo
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Anonymous 01/05/2020 (Sun) 22:12:00 No. 199427 [Reply] [Last]
How should Marxists view fiat currency, or more specifically, whether or not fiat currency disproves the LTV? during Marx's era, 1 pound = x amount of gold = x amount of commodity A, but now, there's no gold to equate the pound to. What would be a Marxian economic analysis of modern money and how does it relate to the Value of commodities?
>>199427 I don't see how fiat currency would contradict or conflict with ltv, care to elaborate?
Debtor has to pay principal plus interest and lenders are free to liquefy such contract by selling it as bond or part of derivative with relatively low risk/discount as most modern states will provide barrage of legal weapons for debt collectors. To theorylet like me LTV is nothing more than nerdy way of claiming why being bourgeois is rent seeking. In that sense I am not sure what prevents one from reading parallel between debt based economy and wage labour based one.

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