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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join our matrix! https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org

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Anonymous 07/08/2020 (Wed) 18:12:23 No. 675344 [Reply] [Last]
Alright. What's the most successful example of socialism in history?
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>>675966 Not an inaccurate one.
>>676104 Any strawman can be accurate, but that doesn't make it an actual argument.
>>676114 What's the point in arguing with clearly retarded people?
>>675344 Currently Cuba and the DPRK, maybe Vietnam. Historically USSR and DDR.

languages Anonymous 07/09/2020 (Thu) 12:19:28 No. 677013 [Reply] [Last]
burgeranon who only knows english here. Last time i tried to ask about learning a non english language a bunch of euroanons here came to shit on me and say theres no point is there a point to me or other burger anons learning another language and if so which one?
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>>677013 There is only one correct answer and that is esperanto
>>678054 I still don't get some of Conlang Critic's points. Yeah the phonology is strange for most, but I learnt to speak it in minutes despite not being Polish (as he described it to have the same sounds). Plus, despite its phonology and supposed euro-centric vocabulary China has the most Esperanto speakers in comparison to every other country and region, even Europe.
>>679180 kill yourself
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I'm learning finnish. It's fun.

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I just want to hear people's theories Anonymous 07/08/2020 (Wed) 15:22:23 No. 674906 [Reply] [Last]
Ok, so I consider myself a Libertarian Socialist at the moment and I really want to hear more diverse leftist talk. It's hard to hear a lot of different takes in the bubble I'm in a lot of the time. What are the main goals for "leftists"? How do I best argue against right wing talking points? What are your generally leftist ideologies and theories?
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>>677560 This doesn't follow. A textbook for internal use that agree with the external propaganda in one context, does not disprove the existence of internal material that disagress with external propaganda in another regard. It would be like saying that because some internal material matches the external material, Scientology doesn't secretly believe in Xenu ufo-shit. >>677596 These sources have been mentioned. https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/media/documents/publication/CWIHP_Bulletin14_15.pdf One of the sources is this. The sources to some of these claims are document 33, footnotes 164-166 and the GDR report on the assault of a black cuban. There's more to get in the actual book. I would really encourage you guys to read it.
>>677392 >This is in spite of the DPRKs huge reliance on foreign aid, something it may deliberately have been, with Kim Jong Il telling a German diplomat that a well-fed population is harder to rule. Source? The vast majority of conversations with the diplomat is requesting that they assist them in improving their agriculture and industry with things like fertilizer and equipment. This doesn't make sense if Kim was trying to intentionally starve the people. >Next thing, Document no. 33 is not the source listed for that claim. It helps with painting a picture of how people in mixed marriages were harrased, but it isn't the source. The source is footnote 165. I looked through the archive, which has a list of the Hungarian Embassy reports, and could not find the actual document stating this (Hungarian Embassy to the DPRK, Report, 22 June 1963). You are free to assist in finding it though. >Elbridge Cleaver, who visited the DPRK noted the "unsubtle racism" of his hosts Ok, your going to have to have a way better source then Cleaver, because the BPP had a completely different view. >Myers has an inventory of sources meant for korean eyes only and he extrapolates from that This is about as helpful as Conquest stating that he had official documents before the archive was opened. >Evidently not; so which sources would we be looking for? The actual documents would be preferred. >Bookchin isn't a Zionist He literally was https://bennorton.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Murray-Bookchin-Israel-Zionist.jpg >>677769 >does not disprove the existence of internal material that disagress with external propaganda in another regard. So you are literally saying that anything we post, even if it's what North Koreans themselves read, cannot in anyway disprove your assertions? Isn't that convenient.

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This is more of an observation than a theory as such, but it is a part of my political theory. Most people think the poor should be helped , but they don't want to be the person doing the helping.
>>678238 Giving some shitty charity money doesn't help the poor it helps the NGOs.
>>678150 You can do what I do sometimes when I do research and have trouble finding a source: shoot the author an email. His mail is right here: [email protected] You know what the sources are. You know what you're looking for. Just ask, and he's likely to hand it over. >they allegedly attacked the car unknowing of who was inside it The source does not say this. First of all, you made the part about them being unknowing of who was inside it. They knew it to be a foreigner and a black man. The German author specifies that the victim was black, which would have had no relevance to the report, if it had no relevance to the attack. Indeed it says directly that the crowd "hurled insults against him as a black man" which AT BEST means that they hurled insults at him because he was black, and at worst means that they hurled racial epithets at him. Both are really bad, and I doubt that the german author would have been able to tell that they were hurling insults against him as a black man, unless they were using racial epithets. Also, I don't know what their police being really brutal against their own population is somehow a defence of the DPRK. Yes, they're brutal too. And delusional. Some of the hungarian reports are hilarious, like the one where the diplomat is left speechless after a conversationwith a commisar that litterally believes that the DPRK can survive in a network of under-ground tunnels if nuclear bombs hit, just because Kim said so. Honestly, just go through some of the reports at random, most of them a sorta hillarious. >This doesn't make sense if Kim was trying to intentionally starve the people. So reading the book all over again (hoo do I have to do a lot of work for you guys) the quote is a about "living standards" that are not supposed to be too high, so I suppose it doesn't technically have anything to do with starvation, just with general affluence. It's still a sociopath-tier take to have on the matter on the well-being of the population, and one that no other ML-state, whatever their flaws, had.

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when will burgers learn what "left wing" means? Anonymous 07/09/2020 (Thu) 18:11:27 No. 677708 [Reply] [Last]
how did american politics get so far auth right compared to more civilised countries like europe or africa? are burgers genuinely still culturally brainwashed from the cold war?
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>>678443 Based
>>678443 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, how many times do I have to tell you folks that social democracy is not fascism.
>>679001 fascism is when the government does stuff man, what do you mean bro... "fascism" is so watered down at this point I consider it utterly useless. A lot of succdems would like fascism if they had the choice between fascism and socialism however (see the SDP cucking itself to hitler, though Otto Wels was a chad and didn't)
>>678227 Kill yourself black king. I watch anime and I couldn't care less about the political implications of it. Heck when I watch anime, I forget politics even exist. Stop with your projections
>>677708 The only kind of "left wing" burgers know about are the ones they get at KFC.

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OPERATION PINKER STINKER 06/26/2020 (Fri) 01:03:44 No. 642335 [Reply] [Last]
ITT: We organize an event to try to get Steven Pinker banned from twitter by mass reports. There are two fronts in this battle, one is the leftists, who should hate Pinker on principle. The other side is the right wingers, who should hate him for being a pedo apologist and a friend of Bill Gates. The attachment is the prototype of the right wing side propaganda. The event is scheduled July 2, 2020. That is a week from now. Steven Pinker is one of Bill Gates best friends. With this vaccine shit, Bill Gates is on the right wing's radar. Recently, "Filthy Rich" came out on Netflix, meaning that normies are now well aware of Eptstein's crimes. Recently the Milwaukee police were caught red-handed in a pedophile ring. So that too is on everyone's mind. Now hear me out. With our collective autism and our influence outside bunkerchan, we can make this into a real thing. Remember that we do have influence, and that "epstein didn't kill himself" was a super huge meme on both sides of the political spectrum. OPERATION: PINKER STINKER Formerly, Operation Porky Sweat We make a huge coordinated effort to cancel Steven Pinker on twitter. Here's the plan: 1. Set a date. 2. Contact every single leftist org, tell them to help out in cancelling Steven Pinker. If they are a good leftist org, they will know him and hate his guts. Otherwise, explain that he's an important neoliberal apologist and defended Epstein in court.

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So, progress?
Sorry to necrobump. There has recently been an open letter to remove Pinker from some linguistic fellowship. CIAChomsky didn't sign it because muh free speech. https://youtu.be/FZHEcfcxni0 Apparently they want to cancel him for casting doubt on black bias from police (which is grotesque), not from using linguistics to bail out his obviously pedo buddy Epstein. There is energy here that can be used to discredit him on stronger grounds than being a racist idiot. https://www.reddit.com/r/VeryBadWizards/comments/hlm1qy/comment/fx018in Imagine getting the linguistic community on board of this, of a guy who uses linguistics to help perpetuate child sex slavery. I'd be furious.
>>676625 >CIAChomsky didn't sign it because muh free speech. All the more evidence that he's a faggot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHMsWdRlGwo >Steven Pinker: They're trying to cancel me Notice how they didn't try and cancel him over the topic of this thread even though it's far more damning
>>642335 Go back, radlib

Anonymous 07/09/2020 (Thu) 05:28:40 No. 676530 [Reply] [Last]
I'm not a fan of Orwell but this quote from him (from .epub related) resonates with me: >The first thing that must strike any outside observer is that Socialism in its developed form is a theory confined entirely to the middle class. The typical Socialist is not, as tremulous old ladies imagine, a ferocious-looking working man with greasy overalls and a raucous voice. He is either a youthful snob-Bolshevik who in five years’ time will quite probably have made a wealthy marriage and been converted to Roman Catholicism; or, still more typically, a prim little man with a white-collar job, usually a secret teetotaller and often with vegetarian leanings, with a history of Nonconformity behind him, and, above all, with a social position which he has no intention of forfeiting. This last type is surprisingly common in Socialist parties of every shade; it has perhaps been taken over en bloc from the old Liberal Party. In addition to this there is the horrible – the really disquieting – prevalence of cranks wherever Socialists are gathered together. One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist and feminist in England. One day this summer I was riding through Letchworth when the bus stopped and two dreadful-looking old men got onto it. They were both about sixty, both very short, pink and chubby, and both hatless. One of them was obscenely bald, the other had long grey hair bobbed in the Lloyd George style. They were dressed in pistachio-coloured shirts and khaki shorts into which their huge bottoms were crammed so tightly that you could study every dimple. Their appearance created a mild stir of horror on top of the bus. The man next to me, a commercial traveller I should say, glanced at me, at them, and back again at me, and murmured, ‘Socialists’, as who should say, ‘Red Indians’. He was probably right – the ILP were holding their summer school at Letchworth. But the point is that to him, as an ordinary man, a crank meant a Socialist and a Socialist meant a crank. Any Socialist, he probably felt, could be counted on to have something eccentric about him. And some such notion seems to exist even among Socialists themselves. For instance, I have here a prospectus from another summer school which states its terms per week and then asks me to say ‘whether my diet is ordinary or vegetarian’. They take it for granted, you see, that it is necessary to ask this question. This kind of thing is by itself sufficient to alienate plenty of decent people. And their instinct is perfectly sound, for the food-crank is by definition a person willing to cut himself off from human society in hopes of adding five years onto the life of his carcase; that is, a person out of touch with common humanity. I mean... come on, man.
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>>678970 If you watch the movie Reds, about John Reed (one of the few Americans buried in the Kremlin), there's a part early on in the film where he's living in New York in this bohemian village, hanging out with Emma Goldman, and it's mentioned that the reputation of socialists is that they're into weird sex stuff. And this was like 1915-1916. None of this is new. And the people bitching about it were bitching about it then. https://youtu.be/P0ayZe_GsQA
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>>677626 E.H. Carr knew Orwell at the time but nobody remembers E.H. Carr because he was pro-Soviet. And Orwell informed on Carr for British intelligence. We should talk more about Carr.
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Also here's another fun Orwell spy story with contemporary relevance. Last year Xi Jinping awarded Isabel Crook was awarded the Chinese Friendship Medal (along with Raul Castro). Crook is an anthropologist who grew up in China (daughter of Christian missionaries) and met her husband, David Crook, in the 1940s. https://youtu.be/vS3_4gAAWtk Who was David Crook? An NKVD agent who spied on Orwell in Spain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Crook
>>676860 >Yes and that only strengthens his argument. Why lol? He was clearly projecting like a motherfucker.
>>677910 Twitter anarchists are trash, Twitter tankies are trash, Twitter anything is trash, because Twitter is trash.

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CHAZ/CHOP and its relevance Anonymous 07/08/2020 (Wed) 01:27:53 No. 673881 [Reply] [Last]
Ok, so I wanted to get peoples opinions, did the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone/Capitol Hill Organized Protest get anywhere near actual anarchism? Were they set up like a correct anarchist society? They seemed to be built in the image of an Anarchist society, but personally it really didn't seem like one.
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>>677075 >>677075 No, because it was penned in by (and probably infiltrated by, given their capabilities) the NYPD. Its just a different strategy; instead of the NYPD's slow choke of Occupy, The cops were exactly hoping for some kind of crime to occur so they could justify sweeping the whole thing away.
>>677118 you're reddit
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>>677141 >racial struggle BLM is black supremacist at this point
>>673881 It was anarchy alright. Hopefully, it might help thick-headed anarchists understand that their vision for the future is trash and that they ought to grow up and become real Marxists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uiGcsUlnjI >Putin: West Opened Pandora Box By Supporting Kosovo Albanians' Illegal Breakaway From Serbia

Based Quotes Liberals Will Never Understand Anonymous 07/10/2020 (Fri) 04:33:40 No. 679036 [Reply] [Last]
>Communists do not fight for personal military power (they must in no circumstances do that, and let no one ever again follow the example of Chang Kuo-tao), but they must fight for military power for the Party, for military power for the people. As a national war of resistance is going on, we must also fight for military power for the nation. Where there is naivete on the question of military power, nothing whatsoever can be achieved. It is very difficult for the labouring people, who have been deceived and intimidated by the reactionary ruling classes for thousands of years, to awaken to the importance of having guns in their own hands. Now that Japanese imperialist oppression and the nation-wide resistance to it have pushed our labouring people into the arena of war, Communists should prove themselves the most politically conscious leaders in this war. Every Communist must grasp the truth, "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party. Yet, having guns, we can create Party organizations, as witness the powerful Party organizations which the Eighth Route Army has created in northern China. We can also create cadres, create schools, create culture, create mass movements. Everything in Yenan has been created by having guns. All things grow out of the barrel of a gun. According to the Marxist theory of the state, the army is the chief component of state power. Whoever wants to seize and retain state power must have a strong army. Some people ridicule us as advocates of the "omnipotence of war". Yes, we are advocates of the omnipotence of revolutionary war; that is good, not bad, it is Marxist. The guns of the Russian Communist Party created socialism. We shall create a democratic republic. Experience in the class struggle in the era of imperialism teaches us that it is only by the power of the gun that the working class and the labouring masses can defeat the armed bourgeoisie and landlords; in this sense we may say that only with guns can the whole world be transformed. We are advocates of the abolition of war, we do not want war; but war can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun. — Selected Works of Mao Tse-tung, Vol. II, pp. 224-225
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>>679060 NOOOO THE PARTY IS SUPPOSED TO GET SLAUGHTERED EVERY 5 YEARRRZZ!
if mao is so smart why did he wage a war on sparrows?
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/QTDDTOT/ PART VI Anonymous 07/05/2020 (Sun) 16:28:35 No. 668321 [Reply] [Last]
Since the last one hit 500 posts, here's Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread: Part Six My question: The phrase "dictatorship of the proletariat" sounds off-putting to some people trying to get into leftism, how can I explain what it actually means? Previous archived /QTDDTOT/ threads: >>548092
Edited last time by krates on 07/06/2020 (Mon) 15:37:52.
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>>679110 the lady is more funded
>>679097 Doesn't really matter but if your mother insists vote for Royce West because of the unions and Sema endorsement.
Also MJ Hegar annoys the piss out of me. Just the worst kind of pandering with the "military mom" stuff.
Why do mods delete posts by communists, but only anchor posts by reactionaries and /pol/acks?
>>679097 Also I voted for Tzintzun Ramirez but she didn't make the runoff. She's... ehh... okay. Kinda in the AOC mold and she also endorsed West. But Hegar sucks. Don't vote for Hegar.

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Anonymous 07/08/2020 (Wed) 14:02:56 No. 674769 [Reply] [Last]
>Technology is the problem! >We should become anarcho primitivists >Corporatism is the problem >We should have a libertarian government >The jews are the problem >we should expel the jews (or worse) Its all so tiresome lads...
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>>675092 i'm sure you feel the same way about white protestants
>>676187 Destruction of productive forces = slowing the tendency of the rate of profit to fall = bad for communism. I'm right, fuckin fight me you bitch
I've never met an actual an-prim, just guys making memes about Teddy.
>the real problem is the patriarchy! >the real problem is those white proles! the new playbook
>>675144 You just made this up.

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