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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion.

IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan
https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=bunkerchan

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"Marx was an Anarcho-Capatilist" Anonymous 01/05/2020 (Sun) 10:31:19 No. 198568 [Reply] [Last]
I'm seeing this argument increasingly used online. The argument goes Marx believed that Communism was the next step after capitalism had produced the most efficient version of itself. Also sights his belief in free trade etc. How do you respond to this Critique
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>>199148 If you were to implement labour vouchers and don't want to wait until you can have a world government that allows you to roll this out everywhere at once, then you will need to fix prices for the part of the economy that is planned while there is trade with economies still using markets and independently acting units
Marx would have been a Ron Paul head
>>198568 Marx was not for labour money. That is a mutualist idea which Marx explicitly criticized. Marx argued for non-circulating labour certificates. The word money implies circulation.
>>198568 I respond with "take your meds" or "are you retarded?"
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>>198573 Retards, like Nick Faggot, believe Marxists are infiltrating the government. There disconnected from reality there is no convincing them other than a bullet.

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Anonymous 12/31/2019 (Tue) 17:35:12 No. 192598 [Reply] [Last]
happy new years fagolas. make a wish for what you want to see on /leftypol/ in the new year
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>>193120 >https://leia.5ch.net/poverty/ >left-wing Japanese board This is great news!
>>193089 It does but they get drowned out by libs and alt-right cargo cultists. /ussr/ was created to facilitate leftist discussion without retarded children, but it's not been very active
>>192598 someone here to take down /pol/ entirely
>>193145 Its so fucking sad that we saw such a massive decline in culture on 4chan. Like god damn there is a huge difference between the two it is tragedy. There is nothing creative anymore its just fucking pepe and wojack edits.
>>193145 No shit. Go to /v/ right now and you will see how 99% of the threads are advertisements. It feels like no one actually post in there but shills.

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How to covert right wingers to Marxism Anonymous 01/05/2020 (Sun) 22:28:39 No. 199451 [Reply] [Last]
How to convert former fringe right wingers to Marxism 101: Profit gives people that are not part of the political state an insane amount of power to follow their own interests. --> Because they got money from non politics related ways, these interests are bad for the nation. Can these capitalists in theory also do good things with this money? Yes. But very likely they wont so why instead of gambling, just remove that option. If these "good" capitalists are, by chance, nationalists, they will voluntarily surrender their private property to the nation. If not, then they dont have the best interests for the nation in mind. In Marxist terms, personal property is stuff you use yourself for your own personal wants and needs. Private property is property that you own in order to extract value from other laborers so like a capitalist owning the means of production. Unfortunately this causes too much power in a small amount of people and you get the situation which is today
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>>199451 You don't. A sensible goal is to move everyone one step to the left while blocking, isolating our enemies. Make the passive opposition neutral, make neutrals passive supporters, activate passive supporters, and radicalize the actives. I'm afraid I do not have the pic with this idea drawn on it. I'd appreciate it greatly if someone could post it. As I see it, there is little point in attempting to convert the other extreme, their radicalism is entrenched and they surely will not listen to their perceived enemies. One might theoretically trick them to ask the right questions from themselves. After all, we all love to hear our own thoughts on matters. But, such efforts are relatively costly when compared to the masses of more willing audience one could convince. >>199465 The danger is in them potentially becoming """anti-capitalists""" like the nazis of old. I've started to see the appropriation of left-wing talking points by fascists recently, which has raised my concern. A shift from "we'll protect freedom and capitalism from those commies" to "we'll protect your community from (((capitalism))) and (((communism)))". Those snakes lie, twist, bend, and pervert anything and everything if it happens to be popular and convenient to them.
>>199456 Yeah don't call it private property. Call it corporate property or something.
>>199472 hey, nice to see my work being spread
>>199741 this. no matter how hard we try, those /pol/tards don't get that personal property isn't private property.
>>199741 >>199456 Maybe don't call it "property" at all. Maybe we should find a better term that encapsulates the idea of absentee ownership and preventing people from working to live unless they let you take what's basically rent out of their earnings.

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Anonymous 01/06/2020 (Mon) 02:20:33 No. 199761 [Reply] [Last]
So, is imperialism still the primary contradiction? Strikes me that one could argue that imperialist actions from Russia, the US and China are proving less antagonistic than the internal contradictions within smaller states. What say you?

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Anonymous 01/05/2020 (Sun) 20:40:46 No. 199317 [Reply] [Last]
Maybe not tomorrow, but in the next 10 years. It's gonna be scary.
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>>199317 Think about just how much the world changed between 2010 and 2019. Indeed, it will be terrifying.
>>>>199319 Thanks.
>>199317 It will. Not atomic explosions scary, but Great Depression, wars, collapse scary.
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>>199319 Lol'd
>>199317 Wow how did you get this future pic of me purging the roaches?

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leftist memes anon 01/05/2020 (Sun) 21:57:00 No. 199411 [Reply] [Last]
actual funny ones,absurdist and esoteric ones
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And some obligatory Sniffman
>>199550 Glad to see that spurdo comic updated for the times
>>199550 >First pic "USSA" Comic meme-song: https://youtu.be/d8MpCIebBVc
Or last one I mean, the updated one with spurdo
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Anonymous 01/05/2020 (Sun) 22:12:00 No. 199427 [Reply] [Last]
How should Marxists view fiat currency, or more specifically, whether or not fiat currency disproves the LTV? during Marx's era, 1 pound = x amount of gold = x amount of commodity A, but now, there's no gold to equate the pound to. What would be a Marxian economic analysis of modern money and how does it relate to the Value of commodities?
>>199427 I don't see how fiat currency would contradict or conflict with ltv, care to elaborate?
Debtor has to pay principal plus interest and lenders are free to liquefy such contract by selling it as bond or part of derivative with relatively low risk/discount as most modern states will provide barrage of legal weapons for debt collectors. To theorylet like me LTV is nothing more than nerdy way of claiming why being bourgeois is rent seeking. In that sense I am not sure what prevents one from reading parallel between debt based economy and wage labour based one.

Anonymous 01/05/2020 (Sun) 14:02:52 No. 198736 [Reply] [Last]
What are your thoughts on national anarchism?
6 posts omitted.
Inferior to Anarcho-Stalinism.
Sage goes in the email field to reply without bumping.
>>198736 Anarchist without adejectives would've been a better name but they're still that even with the loaded title of national anarchy
Shitty meme ideology
Dead meme from like 15 years ago.

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Higher education for scientific socialism Anonymous 01/04/2020 (Sat) 11:27:41 No. 197223 [Reply] [Last]
What subjects would be best for garnering an academic base for dialectical and historical materialism, scientific socialism? Since I can hardly find any courses in "Marxian economics", and I strongly doubt that the usual economics departments carry such courses, I started to open up more to the value of the following three: · History · Anthropology · Sociology Considering hismat (History) Polanyi (Anthropology) and social conflict (sociology) I've kind of gotten stuck here. Could some of you voice your views on this? I'm sure I'm not the first who've been at this stage. Right now I'm edging towards excluding history, since it's not a proper science and would classify closer to the humanities in contemporary curriculum (unlike the historical social science Anthropology), but then I'm thinking about the fact that Marx analyzed his immediate society, and that would go more with Sociology (a lot of the courses actually seem to cover Marx and class to my surprise). Anyway, confused commie student here asking for some help/guidance for the near-future.
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>>197223 No university is interested in teaching you Marxist thought. Speaking as a recent graduate in a history program, I met exactly one professor who even claimed to understand or care about historical materialism. The vast majority are idealist dipshits, great man worshippers or in some cases literally paid by the government to tell lies about countries considered to be enamies. I'd advise getting a degree in something lucrative instead. Study political matters on your own time.
>>199185 >I'd advise getting a degree in something lucrative instead. Study political matters on your own time. This is the best advice you will ever get. I don't know about today, but 10-15 years ago the only successful young people I knew were those who studied finance. All of the rest of us were stuck in low-paying jobs with zero chance for advancement. I did meet one youngish person who studied chemistry and apparently found a decent job and bought his own home, but I don't know if that's because he made a good salary or he came from a wealthy family. Once you have money you can study whatever you want in your free time and don't have to deal with academic bullshit like essay writing and sitting through stupid exams. The most productive periods for me in terms of learning were when I had the time to hunt down books in the university library and skim through them for interesting information, collecting notes and references to follow up on.
>>198868 Not him, mathematician here. Logic as a philosophical discipline is invaluable in my opinion. You learn it by default in mathematics, but it helps me every day in how I think about things and create arguments and view the world in regards to socialism directly, min gutter. It’s a skill non-math/pays people suck at too
>>197254 >>198868 >>199311 Also to refute the previous post about maths, it’s not dead end and teaches a lot of skills that are applicable to basically everything. They’re one of the top degrees for finance jobs, since they’ll have much better problem solving and numerical skills than any finance/business student. Not to mention within maths you'll likely do courses that involve statistics, computer science, physics, etc. If you’re not already into maths you shouldn’t do it (it’s quite difficult and requires passion or a great work ethic) but it’s definitely a good choice. I’d probably recommend computer science or something though if you’re into that
>>197230 >(History) is one of the least mentally stimulating sciences, as it is literally just remembering facts Absolutely brainlet tier. Any history after highschool will focus on critical analysis. For example, instead of "What historical event happened in 1517?" you'll have "Martin Luther was far from the first person to raise complaints with Catholic religious dogma. Why was it Luther and not his predecessors to first spark a mass movement for religious reformation?" No social science department will "teach you Marxism", even sociology AFAIK. From my experience, the history department is the most based but still limited to "radical" race and gender focused scholars. Sociology and Econ in my more limited experience were "globalization" neolib ideologues. That said, any social science will give you a much better political education than a STEM field simply because you'll be forced to contemplate social questions. >I personally don't want the capital/monetary motive to influence my decision-making on this A noble motive. As a recent History grad looking for jobs I'm wondering where I'd be if I cucked out and took Accounting or something similar, but at the same time there's no way in hell I'd be a Marxist today if I wasn't forced to contemplate social questions and theory. I can personally vouch for a history degree in terms of personal enrichment (just make sure you openly espouse your views in class and essay). The highest waged social science major is economics I believe if you're looking for a middle ground.

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/ukrg/ - Ukraine general Anonymous 01/05/2020 (Sun) 17:53:36 No. 199059 [Reply] [Last]
A thread for discussing anything related to Ukraine, everyone is welcome.
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>>199096 Most evidence talked about a famine, which happened. The written testimonies are a whole other can of worms filled with Goebbels’ best propaganda that talked about a genocide aimed at Ukrainians which never happened.
>>199096 Yes, the United Communists of Leftypol do not negotiate with Nazis, end of story.
>>199087 <White-naped crane >The white-naped crane (Antigone vipio) is a bird of the crane family. It is a large bird, 112–125 cm (44–49 in) long, approximately 130 cm (4.3 ft) tall and weighing about 5.6 kg (12 lb) with pinkish legs, grey and white striped neck, and a red face patch. Nice bird
>>199096 You know your shit is fucked when even the god-king of crazy, over-the-top propaganda Solzhenitsyn (he got a Nobel price for that after all) calls you loony.
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Don't forget, remember the 5 million!

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