/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://app.element.io/#/room/!RQxdjfGouwsFHwUzwL:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

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United States to possibly reintroduce the Firing Squad and Gas Chamber Anonymous 11/28/2020 (Sat) 05:17:02 No. 1177683 [Reply] [Last]
https://www.pressherald.com/2020/11/27/trump-administrations-rule-change-could-allow-gas-firing-squads-for-u-s-executions/ >The rule – which goes into effect on Dec. 24 – comes as the Justice Department has scheduled 5 executions during the lame-duck period, including 3 just days before President-elect Joe Biden takes office. First the Iran stuff, now this. They really are pushing everything out the door all at once.
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>>1179876 yeah the US doesn't have any kind of extreme racial prejudices in the judicial system that might bring this into question
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>>1179446 go back
>>1177869 violence only as a means to seize power or as a deterrent for further violence.
No no this is actually half good. Firing squad is by far the most humane way to be executed. Every other option is unimaginably painful. However the death sentence shouldnt even exist in the first place, except in the case of war crimes/crimes against humanity.

/CHALLENGE/ Random Tendency Selection: Steelmaning edition. Anonymous 11/28/2020 (Sat) 23:08:20 No. 1179614 [Reply] [Last]
Let's play a game, /leftypol/ Roll to get your number, and then for the rest of the thread you must argue why the tendency you have been assigned is correct. This exercise allows us to understand and critique other leftists by steel manning their position. I hope this can contribute to some interesting discussions.
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>>1181057 This ideology was the foundation on which bunkerchan was built. Job done, revisionists eternally BTFO.
>>1181060 I'm counting that as a reroll Now explain how fishing syndicates federate into a union and so on. Preferably in excruciating detail.
>>1180782 MLM, or at the very least a revolutionary methodology that highly relies on the workings of MLM, is the single and only path for a revolution in the modern first world and the imperial core. With deindustrialization, labour / proletariat politics are dead. The working class is dead. There is no longer the traditional revolutionary subject of the 20th century. Instead, slowly, and now ever increasingly, we return to the political dynamics of the 18th and early 19th century - the politics of the impoverished, sans culote riots. A peoples army, unifying all the segments of the underclasses - the hobos, the gig workers, the McWagies, the immigrants - is the only real path for a true socially progressive force in the first world. Starting from communal outreach, from populism, forging bonds from the common impoverished misery and following the Maoist principle of from the people to the people (addressing the real day to day concerns of the masses first and foremost), a real fighting force can be created. Also, China is nothing more than the new imperialist hagemon. If the old imperial core doesn't fall to a revolution, then it will be reindustrialized, and shall, slowly, once again become the seat of empires, as well as see a return to classical Marxist political practice of working class organisation. However, in case of such a scenario, the MLM path for revolution shall become the only choice in the east, as it too will be forced to deindustrialize as the USA did.
Bump

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Why is democracy good? Anonymous 11/29/2020 (Sun) 10:42:44 No. 1180866 [Reply] [Last]
-2 dumb people have more influence than 1 smart person. -Policy gravitates towards the lowest common denominator. -There is no actual benefit or reason for an individual to be knowledgeable about detailed policy outcomes since his vote is ultimately meaningless. -Assumes policies are desirable because they are popular. -A practical way to achieve power within a democracy is to form a voter coalition. Direct democracy is thus unsustainable. The logical conclusion of democracy is a 2 party system. -Representatives necessarily have to appeal to a mass of uninformed retards with a message that makes them feel good. -Divides the population into voter coalitions creating conflict between neighbors. -A handful of elites always exists in a society which disproportionately affects the policy outcomes of the system. Within a democratic system these elites will bribe multiple different (and opposing) representatives of voter coalitions. This (ironically) results in a lack of accountability as compared to more traditional systems such a monarchy.
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>>1184201 No. We should accept that even people with underdeveloped brain functions and poor impulse control should be able to make decisions about the world they're living in.
>>1184176 >rein in >using rein vs. reign correctly Have a (You) >>1184163 >the ability to discern the motives and outcomes of those suggestions None of which does anything to solve the principal-agent contradiction. Why even have a government that gives your work and your stuff to an elite so that you can't overthrow them? There is no point to such a system besides an unhealthy predatory kink that should be medically treated. You seem to think policy is a talking shop where a bunch of liberals get together and find the best ideas, and that somehow working against the interests of masses is a good thing, which is the same larpy taboo chosen people shit that escaped containment in the Near East and infected the anglos quite thoroughly. Your tradition needs to die.
>>1184190 It's both really. American state is paternalistic in their view of the masses (kinda like aristocracy was) and tries to reduce amount of people that have direct say on the matter as much ass possible. This easily leads to exploitation by "opulent minority", as you said.
>>1184211 Right. It is critically important that the lumpen's INTERESTS be represented, and that some (possibly super) majority have actual recourse against those they choose to transact business on their behalf. >>1184219 Paternalism is a clever name to try to humanize mass human husbandry by an elite. I don't believe their motives were benevolent, or they would have expressed human concerns in the Constitution, rather than the fetishization of private property. It is a category error to believe that elites are benevolent. They're all just there for the ongoing supply of loot, and marketing helps them stay there. It is not possible to prove otherwise, but neither is it necessary.
>>1184244 >Paternalism is a clever name to try to humanize mass human husbandry by an elite. Yes, I was using it in pejorative sense here. >expressed human concerns in the Constitution I was basing my understating on Tocqueville, but truth to be told the final effect is the same in both cases.

How will we rise above “woke“ Twitter? Anonymous 11/27/2020 (Fri) 09:41:04 No. 1175412 [Reply] [Last]
Woke Twitter is honestly a bad look for the left....
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>>1183415 You're the one that bumped the thread that had been dead for 3 days m8
>>1175442 Well he's Trump and you/we are nobody.
>>1183445 b/c socdems side with capital every time
How about not rising above them? How about just shitting them into oblivion? Don't you know how to fight?
>>1183445 They don't want you interrupting their endgame, simple.

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Burgerkrieg Anonymous 11/24/2020 (Tue) 05:11:57 No. 1165343 [Reply] [Last]
Can we expect the American proletariat to rise up, or are they permanently trapped in false consciousness and labor aristocratic fruits of imperialism? What will be the aftermath of the next four years of Democrat presidency, will they get disillusioned or placated? Is our only hope revolution in the hyperexploited global south, or would this be going against Marx's prediction that the first revolutions would arrive in the most industrialized and prosperous nations?
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>>1165343 well according to this guy it might be sooner than later https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPk9HSLagVg the last civil war was overcome because it was a matter of integrating peoples (slaves) into capitalist society but this time you see a lot of disintegration going on
America is just a really long Worldstar Hip-hop video with a black guy offering funny commentary
>>1165633 >Nobody in America is wretched enough for revolt When the revolution comes, it will be led by lumpen blacks and incels
>>1184179 That would require incels to leave their house which is not going to happen.
america is a prank that has gone on for far too long.

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Anonymous 11/29/2020 (Sun) 04:42:10 No. 1180192 [Reply] [Last]
You will NEVER EVER have a relationship like that of Marx and Engels.
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>>1184104 you can help with tech, logistics, and even things like medical during events. this is just cruel, dude.
>>1184106 fucking lemonparty, is it 2010 again?
>>1184115 Faggot
>>1184149 You mean the 2000s?
>>1184115 oh my god that's literally me

"Socialist States" Are Enemies of the Proleteriat Anonymous 11/24/2020 (Tue) 18:09:23 No. 1166835 [Reply] [Last]
The USSR could have never been socialist because it was a revolution in a feudal state. The forces of history cannot skip a mode of production; capitalism must engulf the planet entirely before socialism becomes a viable alternative, just as feudalism engulfed the world entirely before the liberal revolutions were possible. Each mode of production is shorter than the last. Antiquity's slavery lasted for thousands of years, feudalism lasted for hundreds, and capitalism has lasted for a countable amount of decades. It is thus not a surprise that the beginnings of socialist ideology developed in the womb of capitalism before capitalism had eclipsed the world. The USSR, Cuba, North Korea, and China were all feudal long after Marx died, and even longer after the utopian socialists, but this is an idiosyncrasy of the shorter lifespan of capitalism compared to earlier modes of production. We are finally beginning to see a world socialist revolution brewing, in the 2020s. The key developments allowing its fruition have been the outsourcing of manufacturing to the semi-periphery, and then outsourcing raw material production to the periphery. Once the US has outsourced all of its industrial work to China, and China has outsourced all of its raw resource allocation to Africa, real socialist revolutions will begin. This will be recognized when capitalism reaches a point where semi-periphery countries start pushing for becoming service economies like the west, and when periphery countries start being outsourced manufacturing jobs. There will be no countries left to specialize in raw resource production, and the contradictions will make themselves clear, exploding the system like a bloated corpse rotting in the sun. But let us return to the assertion of the title. If a revolution is performed in a feudal economy, it by necessity must be capitalist, regardless of the ideology of the revolutionaries. This is why all socialist revolutions of the 20th century devolved into state capitalism. They were unable to leave the transitory period, not realizing they had just ended the transitory period from feudalism to capitalism. Capitalism had only truly begun with the establishment of these "socialist states", industrializing former feudal societies to allow for the three-part world system we have today. Thus, like western states, so-called "socialist states" are capitalist states and are enemies of the proleteriat. Deng will never press the "establish socialism" button; a violent revolution will be necessary in China just like elsewhere, regardless of the ruling class' lip service to Marx. Mark my words, comrades: socialist revolutions will begin once the periphery begins industrializing on a mass scale as we saw happen in China. Africa will be the main theater for this development. Once the global south begins industrializing, living standards in the core countries will lower and revolutions will begin. It will follow the same pattern as the liberal revolutions did: first the core countries (the most modern and industrialized nations, just like Marx predicted), then the semi-periphery, then the periphery. Periphery nations will have nowhere to outsource their raw material extraction to, allowing class consciousness to grow there. Semi-periphery nations will pursue a service economy and industrialization will rest entirely upon the periphery that will be growing in class consciousness. The resulting lack of imperialism will flow upwards, and those workers who have the least to lose due to their downward mobility - those in the western service economies - will lead the revolution first, contra the standard "labor aristocracy" narrative. We will be living in socialism by the end of the century.
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>>1166835 >enemies of the proletariat >provide housing, healthcare, food, and transport for citizens >allow soviets (in the USSR) and people's communes (In Mao's china) and use them as backbones of government >become world superpowers after being backwards third world nations >destroy illiteracy >destroy poverty >collectivize industry and move towards full communism >enemies of the proletariat shut the fuck up liberal
>>1166835 WOAH EPIC TELEOLOGY
>>1166835 >The USSR could have never been socialist because it was a revolution in a feudal state. The forces of history cannot skip a mode of production. The forces of history didn't skip a mode of production capitalism did develop, who says all countries have to follow the order ? >We are finally beginning to see a world socialist revolution brewing, in the 2020s. The key developments allowing its fruition have been the outsourcing Marx thought that socialism was made possible by the productive forces capitalism had developed, why would Socialism become more likely when they get outsourced ? >Deng will never press the "establish socialism" button Because he died in 1997.
>>1167127 >the soviets >backbone of the USSR government lol
>>1167127 >move towards full communism What the fuck are you talking about?

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can anarchism be dialectical? Anonymous 11/30/2020 (Mon) 02:49:38 No. 1183004 [Reply] [Last]
i'm not an anarchist but i do believe that the state can be against the people. a debate on which is more totalitarian, government or private corporations, if feel is kinda moot as they both can go against the people and (no matter how much democracy) both can become tyrannical. I agree with Bakunin when he said "the people's stick", but i also agree that there has to be a transition. If global communism is achieved would the concept of state not just eventually sliver away? tl;dr: can there be anarchism after communism?
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>>1183004 >i also agree that there has to be a transition. good. >If global communism is achieved would the concept of state not just eventually sliver away? yes. it might take uprisings but yes. >can there be anarchism after communism? you got your terms a little bit confused there but i get what you mean and yes.
>>1184125 He kinda has a point tbh, although I interpret this ramblings more along Deboard talk of transition from circular to linear time and establishment of class struggle.
>>1183088 speak american u terrorist
>>1184133 I was talking about the pic he added to his texts. But you are right, his ramblings are interesting.
>>1184146 Yeah, I still can't figure out what the fuck I am looking at. I am kinda interested what does it mean.

/ltg/ - Liberation Theology General Anonymous 11/24/2020 (Tue) 19:08:12 No. 1166996 [Reply] [Last]
Considering the success of previous ChristCom generals, I thought I'd start a general for discussion of religious socialism in general, from Christianity to Islam to Buddhism to anything else in between. This is a place to discuss the long and complex relationship between religion and socialism, and how we expect religion to further evolve in relation to progressive struggles. Notable Liberation Theologians, religious revolutionaries, and general religious anti-capitalists by faith: Christian: John Brown Harriet Tubman Francis Bellamy Leo Tolstoy Dorothy Day Martin Luther King Jr. Gustavo Gutierrez Leonardo Boff Jon Sobrino Juan Luis Segundo Oscar Romero Camilo Torres Desmond Tutu

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>>1169592 It's ok, despite both of our faiths having prejudiced retards, those of us with a deep understanding of theology can overcome that rivalry and reach a point of understanding. We are brothers of the book, after all, and we need to set aside the Bushes and Bin Ladens alike and actually move towards a sense of solidarity, not only between our two faiths, but with the progressive struggle as a whole. >>1169311 Quickly learning to do the same here, with half the posters thinking that Marxism inherently means we can't discuss or consider liberation theology from a materialist standpoint.
>>1168304 >Stalin gulag meme Go back
>>1168558 Siad Barre was also a pawn of US imperialism by the end of his rule, yet we still consider him important to the discussion of Islamic socialism. Personally, I despise Tenzin as well, he's a despotic puppet who just wants his theocracy back, but for the purposes of this thread, we can't just ignore that one of the major religious heads of our time has openly declared himself a Marxist.
I thought of a topic that even anti-religious posters probably won't reject outright, what do you think about the various Soviet Orientalist theories about the origins of Islam? I think Marx and Engels, due to a lack of information which I don't think they could really be blamed for, didn't think of the way the Islamic movement dealt with the redistribution of land, so I think a mix of the typical theory of the pre-Stalin era of Islam being a movement of productive capital and Tomara Mikhail's peasant theory are the most accurate way to view the rise of Islam. I imagine there have been similar theories written about the class character of early Christianity, but I haven't read about them.
>>1176993 >this is a fetish board, post fetish

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Are 3D printed firearms the path to communism? Anonymous 11/29/2020 (Sun) 09:39:45 No. 1180789 [Reply] [Last]
3D printing has become relatively very cheap now and there are thousands of blueprints for all kinds of weapons online that you can download and build at home easily if you know what you're doing, this can pretty much solve the issue of arming the revolution since these are untraceable by any authority and can be manufactured and distributed in a relatively short time. Moreover these can ensure the stability of any future communist society since every family can now own a 3D printer and produce their own goods at home including weapons, thus a socialist government can't choose to go against the will of its people due to its immense state power.
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>>1183083 ya boy lenin himself spoke out against what we now refer to as "stochastic terrorism"—that doesn't mean "terrorism" itself isn't politically viable for commies. it's what differentiates anarchist notions of "propaganda of the deed" with coordinated actions carried out by members of a vanguard party. violence not for its own sake, but to what end.
Parts like barrels, bolts and springs still need to be made out of steel, which in theory you could make with the proper machine tools but tbh if you're gonna spend 2k on a lathe why not just buy the gun instead?
>>1181594 >Then why don't we have left and union militia like back in the day? Because the left in Burgerland is fucking nonexistent lol, it's all a bunch of fucking radlibs who hate guns.
>>1183162 This. Muh 3d printed guns are a fucking meme, especially when it's extremely easy to get your hands on decent, affordable rifles/handguns in burgerland.
>>1183162 >>1184066 BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE IS AMERICAN YOU DUMB YANKEE TWAT

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