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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion.

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The Class Question Anonymous 01/11/2020 (Sat) 20:12:38 No. 208865 [Reply] [Last]
ITT: Argue about the class distinction, how to make it, and whether it's worth doing. Where is the line between proletarian and bourgeoisie? This thread is for discussing the distinction between the two, since I've seen posters in multiple threads express confusion on this point.
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>>209055 He sucked their itty bitty nuts
I would opt to divide the classes in relation to their labor time and marry the concept of control societies with it. Proletariats would have little functional control of their labor time being mainly exploited and subject to the exploitation of it from the other classes through asymmetric contracts and structural poverty. Petite bourgeoisie gain some control through being the unctuous adjudicatory arm of the bourgeoisie picking up their scraps as reward. Bourgeoisie maintain complete control of their labor time largely avoiding the exploitation and utilizing the imperialist war machine to secure the resources and raw materials sufficient to exploit other class/prole labor time to the maximum. The function of labor time management under these classes being hierarchical with bourgeoisie directing where other classes spend the bulk of their labor time and to what ends.
>>209023 By commiespeak I mean any words that burgers associate with muh cultural marxism, which include most of those used to discuss class. Obviously there's untapped potential in uniting people under the working class banner, I just don't know how to explain it without triggering them. As you've observed, most Americans identify with some tier of the middle class and, worse still, hold the working class in contempt. We're so thoroughly segmented that I'm afraid the situation is hopeless until most of us are cast into abject poverty. Really good point about the amnesia regarding European social history. I don't even know what to do with that idea, it's as though we've been severed from the "organic" development of class. And thanks for the reading recommendation. >>209353 Isn't this the traditional definition of class?
The most important class which needs to be better understood is the PMC/Labour aristocracy, which makes up the largest part of the population in most rich countries. Also the development of bullshit jobs. Why do bullshit jobs exist from a Marxist perspective?
>>210331 >makes up the largest part of the population Where did you read this?

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Books about middle eastern history Anonymous 01/11/2020 (Sat) 11:19:28 No. 208474 [Reply] [Last]
Anyone know of any decent books to read on the modern history of the middle east (or the last 150 years or so) that touches on Ba'athism, arab socialism, arab nationalism, pan-arabism as well as wahhabism, salafism, etc?
bump
>>208474 I don't know of any single book covering the topics but Tareq Ismael has a lot of books on the left in the Arab world. https://www.amazon.com/Tareq-Y.-Ismael/e/B001HPUBK6%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share Amal Saad has a book one Hezbollah and another on the "Axis of Resistance", considered definitive on the subject. (Disclaimer I have read neither.) https://www.amazon.com/Amal-Saad-Ghorayeb/e/B001IXO1MG%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share

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Anonymous 01/09/2020 (Thu) 21:14:47 No. 206422 [Reply] [Last]
The right is obsessed with birthrates. That psychotic degenerate who shot up Christchurch last year made sure to mention it three times for emphasis in his manifesto. As economic and environmental conditions worsen in the coming decades, the question of who gets to survive and reproduce will only be further politicized. Not long after this tragedy, the insufferable technocratic liberal cuck Hank Green touched on the issue as well saying essentially "Its good that western birth rates are down! It means our poor people are breeding less." Needless to say, this was no comfort to anyone but his audience of anti-natalist college students and PMCs. I imagine most here can admit the right is correct when pointing out that western (post-industrial) nations are not reproducing themselves and have become dependent on migrant labor. Whether it is Latin Americans in the United States or Africans and Middle Easterners in Western Europe-- these laborers are across the board subjected to shit working conditions, forced to live in alienating often violent ethnic enclaves and are left by imperialism with no homeland to return to. The established working class populations by little contrast are being poisoned by opioids, bled dry by the landlords and rightly experience a huge degree of anxiety as what little culture and tradition remains to them is sacrificed on the alter of global capital. My question to leftypol is: what revolutionary changes must take place so that both populations may go on living without a reactionary race war breaking out? What specific state, individual or mass actions can unite disparate sections of the working class who are being led astray by identitarianism? I miss the days when communists proudly said "no war but the class war" I still firmly believe all future policy on all matters should reflect this fundamental principle.
3 posts omitted.
no war but the class war
>>206422 There is literally nothing wrong with antinatalism, google SPD birth strike, Kautsky was unironically right.
>>209593 Based succdem never thought I’d say those 2 words together.
>>206422 >have become "dependent" on migrant labor ahahahah,I hope you don't actually believe this is true,or you need to get back to those books you left on your table. If they were no more migration in those places,the only thing that would happen is a shrinking of the reserve army of labor,and more demands for higher wages etc until capitalists outsource their factories in place where it doesn't cost as much,until they are a low enough amount of job to make those demands null and void again. Also the demography would never die out just like that,if we were slowly getting our population reduced in one country,without migration,it would just stabilize by having small boom of babies from time to time probably. "reproducing yourself" is a fucking spook,it's just a matter of demography that is artificially inflated because of short term gain from the ruling class,the west will not randomly die out because we don't bring more PoC,(but it could because of others factors,like exploding suicide rates and civil war) >What specific state, individual or mass actions can unite disparate sections of the working class who are being led astray by identitarianism? Abolishing private property and capitalism is obvious,but if you mean something practical as a reform,I guess giving "power" to them via a Popular initiated Referendum could result in actual political implication from the identitarian instead of letting them in their echo chamber fester in their shit. Or you could also stop being dumb,realize that they are an extreme minority (like us) and that they will probably never accomplish anything of importance at long term (the masses will) Also the whole Culture and Tradition schtic is fun,but it's reactionary by nature,culture were never something purely static,and the USA is the biggest offender on that side,not even 1 billion brown people can compete culturally with the American spam and agressive cultural colonialism.
>>209691 >lso the demography would never die out just like that,if we were slowly getting our population reduced in one country,without migration,it would just stabilize by having small boom of babies from time to time probably. This, the birthrates are decreasing due to resource hoarding and availability that will re correct itself once it reaches a point where lesser people meant more resources to share. Idk whether why OP thinks this is exceptionally anti-natalist where it is the population correcting itself to a more sustainable number.

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Reduction of work hours Anonymous 01/12/2020 (Sun) 11:35:01 No. 209479 [Reply] [Last]
Would the work week be reduced under socialism? How much could it realistically be reduced given the current productivity levels? Wouldn't focusing on the reduction of the standard 40 hour work week (I know it's not really 40 for most people) vastly increase the socialist base? Surely most proles would love more free time to relax and spend with their families and friends.
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>>209597 In the US, I don't doubt it. Urban planning is absolutely fucked up in the US. Sprawling car-oriented cities like L.A. shouldn't exist.
>>209614 Not really. And it's not hard to figure out a causal relationship. Houses take up space. People who own houses for their own family's use are reluctant to move out, sell, rent out. Subsidizing home ownership means subsidizing urban sprawl and spreads a rightwing NIMBY mindset.
I always imagine that in order for society to go forward we need full employment, and it is quite likely that it would result in a massive increase in labour force, and with automation replacing a lot of human labour, the places which wold sill need it could easily opperate at the same productivity (and in real terms higher, as shorter working day leads workers to be more productive) by hiring 2 shifts of 4 hour workers. It all really depends on how many working-age people you have and how wide spread is automation. If it manages to replace most work, with both reducing the necessary labour per-person needed to keep up the same productivity, which we want to keep up in order to maintain society and to progress forward.
> For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic. I just want to live in such world bros.
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>>209662 productivity increases have stagnated, so automation currently isn't replacing labour. >>209682 If everybody goes to hunt in the morning, all large animals will go extinct in about week. ---- >>209479 I think that we should let people vote on the amount of work-time and also let them vote on the amount of lifestyle production they want and then calculate the closest possible configuration

SHOUTING OUT MARX AND ENGELS IN GAME AWARDS VICTORY SPEECH Anonymous 12/14/2019 (Sat) 16:35:04 No. 161062 [Reply] [Last]
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>>209122 >>209122 >when video games are mainstream? You know that is only a recent trend right? Actually the dynamic of 'nerd culture''s old school 'nerds' and the interaction/clash with newer influx of ignorant, hip and popular always feel understated and underrated.
>>205971 >Gamers as a group are predisposed toward reactionary politics >>206055 >the sort of people who'd actually spend hours posting about games online. To be a gamer means to be immersed in video games, and to be immersed in video games requires a lot of free time, a lot of disposable income, and the willingness to play with electronic toys for hours at a time. That's baloney in terms of hard statistical fact, as I pointed out upthread: >>162523 >>162553 (fixed links) >>206187 >implying modding doesn't exist >implying open source doesn't exist >implying a rich history of bedroom coders, shareware, doujinsoft, etc., doesn't exist >implying the pioneering role of gaming in online culture and the tech industry doesn't exist >implying any other artistic medium, with the possible exception of literature, is anywhere near as democratic and participatory in terms of barriers to entry and distribution Gayman is actually existing cumminism >>209157 >that is only a recent trend Maybe not as much as now, but numbers even in the '90s were nothing to sneeze at. PC gaming is a bit harder to measure, but a decent proxy is console sales, with 5th gen hardware totaling 147M home consoles worldwide:

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>>206204 I'd say buying video games is like second to playing basketball when it comes to having cheap hobbies. Maybe drawing is a bit cheaper.
>>209415 The sales weren't something I was referring to, but the identity of a 'gaymer' developing and recently being mainstream.
Would have went harder if they said their names in full

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OPEN UP IT'S STASI Anonymous 01/11/2020 (Sat) 17:01:42 No. 208689 [Reply] [Last]
I was talking with my friend who's family is from the USSR and we started talking about the East German secret police, or 'Stasi' as they are commonly known. He's a left-lib so he was making the argument that he'd rather in a libertarian capitalist society than an authoritarian communist one. I did try explaining to him that modern surveillance under capitalism is obviously more advanced than the Stasi ever could be and that will stamp you even faster any totalitarian regime if you challenge their power substantially. Are there any first-hand sources regarding them and their actions? Were they as bad as they are thought to be?
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>>208980 Well, yeah. They're not a race, though.
>>208980 Let's make a Poland hate thread if one doesn't already exist.
>>208755 Anything better? I found it lacking in sources for many claims last I read it. Did not give the most authoritative impression.
>>208711 >Litterally the only reason that the DDR fell was because the Stasi was... let's not dive into the idealistic view of "it was x and y that caused z" please. the DDR was suffering from many economic problems, and dissatisfaction towards the stasi - they were excessive, egon krenz even admits so - and their failure in protecting the party only accelerated the process. >and government endorsement on victimless amateur porn and 2d porn silly becuase you're viewing a state from conservative times (which was actually quite socially liberal - they had state-run nightclubs and legal homosex) and assuming that's the default. DDR II, if it ever happens, is going to be a lot different - not just "recreate the exact state and mindsets from the 70s but with legal hentai and camshows"
>>209308 > the DDR was suffering from many economic problems, The DDR did not have "many" economic problems. It had a few but nothing threatening. Financially the DDR was in 1989 actually more sound than the BRD, it had 3 times less public and private debt than the NATO sector. >and dissatisfaction towards the stasi Only green shitlib students, the church and so on cared about the MfS. Generally, there was no dissatisfaction with the Stasi in 1989, this is made up NATO/CIA/BND propaganda. There was dissatifaction with the old guys in the SED though who were kinda seen as extremely conservative old tards disconnected from the average worker/citizen, dictating everything from above, often times ignoring the opinion of engineers, workers, scientists etc. - which was all true to a certain extend. The personality cult around Honecker and others and excessive political propaganda was also perceived as rather annoying. The main thing that caused dissatisfaction with the SED was that damn wall though, it prevented average citizens from travelling to relatives in the NATO sector and from travelling around the world freely. Yes, the wall prevented World War 3 from igniting within Europe when it was built, however in the long run it killed the DDR. In 1989 even the SED big heads were fed up with it, but then they opened it far too quickly. What's more, Mielke actually proved to be a softie against shitlibs and NATO invaders. He didn't want to "shoot at our people" (quote), but western bourgeois media still paints him as extremely hawkish who went against his own people. It's not true. I think this is mainly due to BND/CIA officers still being butthurt about him and Markus Wolff planting spies inside the NATO headquarters and highest level of BRD govt, while western secret services never managed to put moles inside the DDR's critical administration and military.

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Anonymous 01/12/2020 (Sun) 08:27:49 No. 209395 [Reply] [Last]
Why did George McGovern lose so badly to Nixon? It's often claimed that he went "too far left" but I wonder if it was that simple.
I’m pretty sure he was to the right of FDR.

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Redpill me on George Soros Anonymous 01/02/2020 (Thu) 18:55:13 No. 194262 [Reply] [Last]
In liberal circles it has become pretty much illegal to drop this guy's name. He represents the portion of the bourgeoisie which happens to be Jewish afterall. The libs are all neurotic and deeply afraid of perpetuating muh harmful stereotypes. It doesn't help that Alex Jones' crazy ass has a fixation-- believing him to be some kinda inter-dimensional vampire or whatever further muddying the waters. But who is Geroge Soros, really? All racist spooks aside. I know he played a huge role in funding anti-communist groups across the Eastern bloc. He was Yeltsin's #1 foreign backer in the Russian election of 1996 and his name is basically synonymous with the European Union. This alone should make him irredeemable, right? He also has a shit load of money tied up in the LGBT movement--peddling the insane alienating tumblr idpol that has made all attempts at building a true socialist movement in the west pretty much impossible. What is his end game? Where does he stand in relation to the other big players in global bourgeois politics? Are the horrible deeds of George Soros obscured by the conspiracy theories surrounding him or his he just a dying capitalist from yesteryear?
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>>197709 Learn to take a joke nigga
>>198618 >The only thing it does is validate Nazi propaganda >letting your enemies dictate what you can say or think Good job retard
>>198618 >It doesn't have any impact on our actions. >our 0y
>tfw he didn’t give Christmas bonus this year I hate him lads
Don't forget he funded Orban's education.

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Worldbuilding Anonymous 08/22/2019 (Thu) 15:29:14 No. 38726 [Reply] [Last]
Alright Comrades, I had this Sci fi story idea that i don't think that I'll finish alone, so basically our main protagonist is the Planetary Union Of Socialist Republics, existing over 700 years since 2081, since then multiple revolutions across the galaxy has happened and all are allegedly started by the PUSR, Anyways, an alliance between the Socialist Stellar nations were formed, called the Interstellar Union Pact (Feel free to change that.) It kinda mirrors the Warsaw Pact in this world.

So in the present times, the IUP is currently engaged in a cold war with two other alliances, one was capitalist and one was Fascists whic I haven't named yet.

Our story revolves around the Commissars who assist in the revolutions across the Universe, preferably there are 9 commissars.

And that's what I built in the story so far, and now I pass it onto you comrades, contribute to this worldbuilding and hey this could become Leftypol's project but who knows.
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>utopianism
>>200407 >Never read the Noon universe >Never read Red Star >Never read Culture Cringe and post-capitalist pilled. It’s more of a continuation of Soviet scifi which delve more into discovery, wonderment and completely alien society. And surprisingly enough most Soviet sci-fi books talked about the victory of communism is just a small footnote of history unlike most modern sci-fi that only have capitalism as the true end of history.
is their any anarchist free territory in the story?maybe their own confederation of planets?
>>208002 There are some and they are opposed to all sides of the cold war
>>38726 if their are aliens in the story theirs a lot you can do with that,like having multiculturalism with alien society's in the free territory confederacies and soviet territory that influence their worldviews/culture,you can also have a fascist who meets some alien fascists,he gets to know them(get friends,fall in love?)but his fascist leaders are racist towards all aliens and so a war begins,the fascists whole worldview is questioned as he is ordered to kill his friends,in the battle he losses his arm and needs to replace it with a robot arm,made from the same technology from the society he lived in for years,forever a reminder of what happened,but he refused to kill his friends,instead he fled and landed on red territory,you could make him a ally of the main guys in the story,gives some conflict in the dialogue,you would imagen a lot of interesting situations with this,the reds wanting to give him less pay,which contradict their own worldview and challenges their believes,the fascist struggling with his own beliefs and on the brink of betrayal constantly,you name it

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Xi's Grand Plan Anonymous 01/04/2020 (Sat) 16:58:34 No. 197485 [Reply] [Last]
>China to transition fully to socialism by 2050 >Rate of Profit supposedly hits zero by 2050 presumably ending the economic conditions necessary for capitalism's existence Coincidence?
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>>200376 What's Xis book called?
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>>201809 The governance of China
>>200977 NSDAP defined socialism to mean "when you redistribute property of rich Jews to rich Aryans"
>>197485 If zero profits is socialism, then they already have achieved it. Their "economic miracle" is nothing but cooking the books. Period. And there is no decade long plans. Can't exist. They are just winging it like everyone else.
>>206668 Everyone has plans. Difference is that China's plans don't have to take elections with whatever flip flopping they come with into account. Case in point, changing Xi's term to avoid mishaps in China's most pivotal decade (BRI&Navy). Running a country =/= managing mommy's allowance

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