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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion.

IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan
https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=bunkerchan

OWNING THE LIBS Anonymous 01/10/2020 (Fri) 13:58:36 No. 207338 [Reply] [Last]
I'm working with a local XR group and almost all of the members are hardcore libs who are convinced that banning plastic straws and car sharing will solve ecocide (Apart from one guy who I keep in contact with and is absolutely our guy). Does anyone have some good agitprop to convince them that Capitalism is our true enemy and eventually to breadpill them?
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>>208134 I imagine they are useful if you can't move your head. Other than that I can't think of anything.
>>208134 They were initially invented so that you could drink from a cup without touching it with your hand - in a pre-ice cube world, straws were rather nifty for that.
>>207861 >GAF is a name, a banner, a call to action. It’s not an organisation or a network and has no central authority. We want GAF to act as a way of bringing people together, to take action, to spread a radical, anti-capitalist position on climate change and other environmental issues. If you agree with our manifesto, we encourage you to organise, to take action yourself, you can be part of the Front! >There is no specific model to follow, different situations call for different forms and actions, but there are a few important principles that we ask those organising as GAF to stick to ive been to XR Scotland meetings and they were basically the same as this. Only difference is this group calls itself anti capitalist explicitly
>>212460 I must say I do envy you. It's reformists as far as the eye can see down south.
I have a reusable plastic straw. It's nice, but a mild annoyance to clean. I quit using disposable straws because of my sister and brother-in-law pushing the issue a little, but I actually like the reusable one a lot more.

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Anonymous 01/01/2020 (Wed) 01:51:58 No. 192998 [Reply] [Last]
I'd appreciate some help in getting some information. Does anyone have information/links to evidence that Julian Assange is being tortured, and how he is being treated in the UK? For example, this article mentions that some doctors have signed an open letter discussing how he appears to be a victim of torture, but there is no copy of the letter provided. If someone knows where I can get it I'd be grateful. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/25/julian-assanges-health-is-so-bad-he-could-die-in-prison-say-60-doctors
bumb
Have you consulted chairman Dore?
if i were the US govt I would MKultra him
So much for “liberal democracy”.

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Late Capitalism Thread Anonymous 09/06/2019 (Fri) 11:14:04 No. 55734 [Reply] [Last]
I haven't seen it in the catalog, I thought we bring this thread back.
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>>206831 POC (Persons Of Currency) are so oppressed!
>>207871 Theres homeless everywhere. I get around and theres very few places where I don't see a homeless person or encampments. I thinking they are lying about the half a million number and it's closer to 2 or 3 million nationally.
>>206831 Goddamn this is like that Zizek shitposting turned to reality
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Babies First Anonymous 01/10/2020 (Fri) 21:05:17 No. 207904 [Reply] [Last]
What are the best beginner friendly resources for converting liberals or conservatives to socialism? Short videos, memes, even pamphlets are preferred. Most people don't read books and won't pick up Capital or even Conquest of Bread (at least when they start) no matter how important they are.
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>>208149 >I think most people who have an issue with him would say that he puts too much emphasis on workers coops specifically. And I think most of those people are strawmanning retards. Wolff literally just blasted markets in his latest Global Capitalism update.
State and Revolution is a good read, it states the goal and the problems of other 'solutions', and does a good deal of resuming down a lot of stuff
>>207937 Redpilled
>>208130 >"Hello zero books readers, in this video we are going to analyze the popularity of Hatsune Miku through the lens of Mark Fisher's work" Ah yes, based Doug touching the subjects that REALLY matter. 10/10 would watch again.
>>207904 As opposed to looking like an autist and handing them a copy of State and Revolution or boring them to sleep with Noam Chomsky's directionless rambling-- hit them with some Parenti. He talks like a regular human being. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a2lisF4XGg

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Anonymous 01/12/2020 (Sun) 21:47:15 No. 210551 [Reply] [Last]
Bill Gates is worth approximately $100 billion dollars give or take. It doesn't matter exactly how much, let's just say it's $100 billion. This is not in liquid cash but in assets and stocks and securities and whatever else which if he were to decide to turn into cash and liquidate would cause said stocks and assets to depreciate, meaning his liquid cash worth is much lower. But let's pretend it is it not. Let's say Bill Gates has $100 billion in liquid cash ready to go sitting in his bank account. If he were to decide to give this wealth away equally to the 8 billion people of the world it would be meaningless because of inflation. If everybody has an extra $12.5 dollars ($100 billion/8 billion people == $12.5 dollars per person) in their pocket, nobody does. But let's make pretend inflation is not a thing. Let's make pretend inflation would not occur and every single person on the globe would increase their wealth by $12.5 in real terms. Every single person having an extra $12.5 dollars in their pocket on a one off shot won't make much of a real material difference. Even in super poor countries where people live on $1 a day. So just to get me straight I'm not even opposed to redistributing all of Bill Gates' money. And I understand that this isn't what communism is actually about. But please bear with me. I'm simply trying to understand how Bill Gates hoarding $100 billion in cash even necessarily means everybody else is that much worse off. And if they are it's only by a one time amount of $12.5 dollars, globally. So my question is how will communism and the labor theory of value and labor vouchers even necessarily remedy this? What difference does it actually make? It would seem communism less results in the average person becoming more materially better off and it's more about preventing people any one person from becoming a billionaire. Which is fine I guess, it's not something that I necessarily oppose. Up to this point Bill Gates has extracted $100 billion dollars worth of surplus value via capitalist exploitation, and has accumulated it. Divying up $100 billion across 8 billion people is just peanuts. Am I wrong?
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>>211818 No, Space is not the original BO of 8/leftypol/.
It's a paradox. Some degree of poverty is required to get people to supply the labor that then provides the goods and services we need to give our wages actual purchasing power. If everyone was a millionaire and stopped working that would mean nothing gets produced, and the scarcity would make a miilion worthless. So we only have wealth because people are working to produce.
>>211791 Have you ever considered you've been fed a steady stream of racial propaganda instead? I feel much safer in my mixed race neighborhood in the city than I ever did in my rural 98% white hometown. I've had guns pulled on me, my stuff jacked and money loan never returned and some of that was from my own family doing it. All 100% Anglo Americans. Your "tribe" isn't based on arbitrary superficial features. It's based on who treats you well and is good for your survival. I don't blame white people or hate white people for the crimes committed against me. By and large rural America is psychological broken from deindustrialization and the drug war coming to their front door. These are economical and class based issues not because Jews or cosmopolitan urbanites like me got together and plotted against the whyit man. If/when shit hits the fan you'll be very disappointed in your tribe of junkie racist you picked to associate with because their 23 and me had high percentage of german.
>>211818 > I understand that the owner of bunkerchan is the same person as the original BO Nope. Different person. Old BO did resign just a few weeks before 8chan got metaphorically shot out of the sky because of a non-methaphoric mass shooting though.
>>212009 >Old BO did resign just a few weeks before 8chan Feels like it was more than just a few weeks. I seem to remember old BO resigning some time in early march of 2019.

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Anonymous 01/13/2020 (Mon) 20:38:26 No. 211965 [Reply] [Last]
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>>211979 >I'm the trot on here who likes the USSR. Then why are you still a trot?
>>212194 You can still like things trotsky had to say and ignore retarded ass drama from 90 years ago. Just one example, since everyone thinks anything right wing is fascist.
>>212233 The last time he did an AMA he quit after answering like 12 posts.
>>212241 I wanted people to say edgy shit to him and him like having perfect answers like getting him to defend Khmer Rouge.

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A discussion of the prospect of the creation of an /idpol/ board Anonymous Board volunteer 01/13/2020 (Mon) 04:14:51 No. 210909 [Reply] [Last]
Hello friends, we have been hearing lots of complaints about the idpol thread lately, but as a huge cyclical with no real organisation it is difficult for us or for anyone to realistically moderate it. Therefore, one proposal that has come to light is the idea of creating an /idpol/ board to serve as a containment instead, which would allow idpol posters to spread out a bit and have more topic-enforcement. Now, of course, the idea of an anti-idpol board having an idpol board seems a bit incongruous, but we do have to accept that many people have idpol related spooks that need to be dispelled in order to bring them to the left, which may not be possible if we simply refuse to talk about idpol at all. However, I do have my own hesitations about this idea as well, which is why I/we would like to ask for your opinions on the subject. If you have any salient points for or against this proposal we would be interested in hearing them, because I personally haven't made up my mind.
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>>212115 >Evolutionary psychology explains far more than you give it credit for It is idealistic nonsense as much as any non-materialist analysis is. >Neither is society a result from man elevating his own nature, but rather a result of said nature Society is an explicit act of man to separate humanity from nature so as to better ensure group survival. Ergo, all the people who clamor for the return of survival of the fittest or whatever are not only wrong in the theory of evolution, but contradict the prime directive of civilization itself. >And what is to say "social conditioning" is not in and of itself a product of natue? Material analysis and how social relations form as per Hegelian thought. >The common mistake you make is that you try to think about this "logically" where "logic" refers to fancy little lines of reasoning with 0 (zero) evidence to back it up, but it sounds cool so it must be true. The common mistake you make is believing in things because they are comfortable and reinforce your preconceived notions of society as imbued to you by capitalism and liberalism. >>212118 Survival is the sole purpose of all life, which is why we created a society to begin with. Sex is the reproduction of life and a socially necessary form of labor across all societies, as it reproduces the conditions that allows for society. People exist so wholly within the context of society that they can indeed abstain from both should they not feel welcomed in society - hence suicide, volcels, ect. A notorious example being the Aboriginals in Australia, who were in British concentration camps, elected to no longer reproduce just so their people would stop suffering under the British heel.
>>210909 I have considered an idpol board to be created in the past before. If an idpol board is inevitable It most likely is, it should most likely be a board to shed off the spooks of idpol, like you have just said. Kind of like /leftypol/ but with training wheels.
>>212151 >Society is an explicit act of man to separate humanity No it's an emergent phenomenon grown out of packs/tribes. > return of survival of the fittest This is already the case, evolution has not suddenly stopped. There still those selected who pass on their genes and those who do not, that the environment under which natural and sexual selection happens changed does not eliminate it. >Sex is labor lmao sign me up. This is why you are not taken seriously, your fun is not something others want to slave for. >suicide, volcels Outliers and just specific form of failures, evolutionary dead ends. That does not change the condition of the species in general whose members struggle which each other for resources and mates. Some necessarily fail as they do in all animals. >Aboriginals in Australia, who were in British concentration camps, elected to no longer reproduce just so their people would stop suffering under the British heel Source? If it happened it was probably not too large a group and required significant peer pressure as it is like the prisoner dilemma, defecting just has too high an incentive and the higher the number the higher the chances some will do it. Reminder that the slaves in burgerland did reproduce.
>>212151 >It is idealistic nonsense as much as any non-materialist analysis is. You are right evolution and it's consequences are idealistic nonsense. Take the creationism pill. >Society is an explicit act of man to separate humanity from nature so as to better ensure group survival Again, no. Society is the result of nature. You can not overcome the need to eat, sleep and reproduce as a species without going extinct. Having a bunch of fancy agriculture does not suddenly make your society magical and above nature. >Material analysis and how social relations form as per Hegelian thought. Cool...so what? Are you really going to tell me the entirety social interactions can be categorized under those two themes? >The common mistake you make is believing in things because they are comfortable and reinforce your preconceived notions of society as imbued to you by capitalism and liberalism. How about you proof that statement big guy?
Locking this thread since you cunts can only whine about incel bullshit and its triggering my negative obsessive thoughts. (go back to your gulag)
Edited last time by comraderat on 01/13/2020 (Mon) 23:34:14.

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Movies, franchises, and series; how they reproduce the ideologies of capitalism Anonymous 01/11/2020 (Sat) 10:26:56 No. 208457 [Reply] [Last]
Figured it'd be interesting to start a thread discussing various films and franchises and the ways in which they reproduce the ideology of capitalism. I'll say mine; the Marvel franchise. One simple way Marvel films reproduce ideology is the way in which they reproduce the ideological justification America, and by extension, liberal states, use for there role in world politics. America, as it tells its own citizens, is much like Captain America, or Thor, or the Avengers as a whole; it goes around the world, entering other nations, and saving people regardless of who they are or where they're from, the Avengers will save citizens from either some outside foreign threat or even their own government, both at home and abroad. This is the way in which Americans see their country, as a superhero, invasions of other countries were once positioned as defeating communism, with the world historical defeat of the USSR the current goal is stated to be some humanitarian mission that seeks to save the savage peoples of the world from the terrorist actors and plots threatening their lives (accordingly almost every supervillain is effectively some form of terrorist). Another way these films reproduce ideology is in their acknowledgment of the dark past much of the societies of the Marvel-verse, and in real world context the dark past of liberal society. A decent example of this might be Thor Ragnarok, whose driving force is the reveal of Asgard's past as a colonial empire and Odin's past as a universal conqueror. It was from this past that Asgard's wealth and power originated, and the resolution is a destruction of Asgard as it currently existed. However, a further investigation might find that, in the end, not much had changed for Asgard politically, to begin with Odin himself continues to be revered in spite of his crimes, and furthermore the same class that ruled the old Asgardian civilization continues to rule the current one; for all intents and purposes in spite of the destruction of old Asgard a new round of conquest could hypothetically begin (similar to how the liberal states of the 19th Century were mostly destroyed in the world wars, allowing for a new round of imperialism to commence after them). A better example of meeting the past in such ways might be Black Panther; in it the main character, T'Challa is made to confront the past of his father as well as the reality of the colonized masses throughout the world. This film, despite diversity and an intriguing villain, has even less radical teeth than Thor Ragnarok, whereas Thor has the resolution of destroying Asgard for what it represents and Hela for being an imperialist, Black Panther rather resolves itself with first a refutation of Killmonger's radicalism (Killmonger is not a true revolutionary, instead he is a former CIA agent who intends to use a global revolution of the colonized and oppressed to instead conquer the world). Once Killmonger's critiques of liberal, settler-colonialist society are revealed, and once it is further turned to the rulers of Wakanda as having done nothing to protect the colonized or even help the rest of mankind are settled on as fundamentally correct, Killmonger is undercut as a revolutionary and eventually killed by the ruling class he sought to overthrow. Killmonger himself does indeed believe in a sort of global proletarian revolution, but he is framed in much the way liberals frame Vladimir Lenin, rather than seeking the liberation of the proletariat for its own sake, Killmonger seeks it for power. The ultimate resolution, rather than revolution against an oppressive system, is instead governmental outreach from Wakanda, that being, Wakanda's integration into neoliberal society and effectively the extension of the influence of the Wakandan ruling class; in the end revolution is a step too far, even a Keynesian restructuring of the system is a bit much, the system is fully reinforced and the ruling class affirms its rule all the more. Another franchise I feel reflects our current cultural moment is the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy. It should be noted that the Original Trilogy already reflected the culture of postmodernism, the OT being a pastiche of WWII serials, Flash Gordon adventure stories, and samurai films. In fact, the Star Wars OT can be thought of as reflecting postmodern culture during its heights in the late 1970s and the 1980s, whilst it was a pastiche of what came before it the format was utilized such that something that appeared to be new was crafted. A similar theory can be applied to the Prequels, having come out during postmodernism's decline they have a notable drop in quality, however they still manage to add something new to the pastiche by utilizing contemporary politics to craft the story of liberal democracies transitioning to fascist dictatorships, with the War in Iraq being the framing device of then current society. Not so with the Sequels; the ST perfectly represents, if anything, the full cultural decline of postmodernism, whereas the OT was a pastiche of many cultural artifacts made in a new form and the PT blended contemporary politics to add to this, the ST is rather a pastiche of the OT, an echo of an echo, a parody without a punchline. The ST has nothing new to say or add, the characters within simply emulate what came before them, whether intentionally in the case of Kylo Ren, or unintentionally, as in the case of Rey. In the PT, postmodernism is reflected in that it goes back in time rather than continuing the story, in the ST the story is continued and yet nothing has actually changed, the Empire still exists, the Jedi are still dead, and, as it turns out, Palpatine still exists as well. While the PT showed a new world, albeit one in the past, the ST revealed that a new world simply wasn't possible after the OT, or rather, a new world isn't possible in postmodern society. This tendency for postmodern culture to present itself as a mere pastiche of what came before grows more intense as the trilogy wears on, the first film is a clear remake of A New Hope, the second in the trilogy effectively functions as a mashup of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, the third and final film once again remakes Return of the Jedi while also drawing elements from the old Expanded Universe and the Prequel Trilogy. And what is the resolution of the ST, you might ask? Effectively none, there is no real resolution, rather than ending the story simply stops, while the OT ends with a definitive defeat of the Empire and the PT ends with the definitive fall of the Republic, the ST ends seemingly by returning things to the status quo immediately preceding it and then never actually expanding on what that status quo even was. In the end the film seemingly references its reliance and inability to evolve past the OT with its final line, as Rey bears the moniker of the Skywalkers, now dead and buried, continued not through their own children but rather a character who must take on the name to reflect the series own inability to move past what came before it. To me what is so interesting about the Sequel Trilogy is the way in which it reflects the current spate of 80s reboots and remakes, it should be noted that the ST was not the first down the pipeline of nostalgia pap; it is, however, a decent example of these films. In our moment of cultural transformation and declining postmodern culture, postmodernism looks back to works made during the heights of its power in the 1980s (and now seemingly the start of the decline in the 90s) with a sort of eerie longing, the true essence that nothing really can be new, while the films of the 80s were almost all a pastiche in some form of what came before them, the films that defined the 2010s (beyond the superhero genre, itself made up of adaptations of existing stories) were pastiches of the pastiches, reflections of a past when mankind had already given up on imagining a new future.
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>>210478 Not so hot a take actually. I think Solaris is a bit overrated by history but it really was radically new for its time. Stalker is by far my favorite Tarkovsky and Andrei Rublev also left me with more of a lasting impression that Solaris. >>210327 I saw The Lighthouse based on /leftypol/ recommendation (someone made a thread when it came out a couple of months ago). Even dragged my bluepilled friends to the theater and got to explain the master/slave dialectic after since that was pretty much the theme of the movie. Nothing terrifying about it though. Beautifully shot, if anything. Favorite part was definitely DaFoe's Shakespearean curse that takes him 2 mins to recite.
>>210478 >>211326 I haven't seen it, but I agree with you guys in that being a pioneer shouldn't equate to accomplishing much more than simple novelty. >>211326 Fuck I loved that scene, he's a hell of a performer. I missed the thread, but I sensed that Egger was speaking to something along those lines. My friend dismissed it as another movie about shame or self-repression, but I felt like those discussions about labor, hierarchy, and identity were too significant to be simple world-building!
>>210897 Ghibli movies are very comfy desu. Love watching em whenever its raining outside.
>>211545 I definitely understand that, check out this video about their sound design https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=jM6PPxN1xas&feature=emb_title

News 1/11/20 News Anon 3.0 01/11/2020 (Sat) 22:10:49 No. 208977 [Reply] [Last]
Tear gas vs rocks: Anti-pension reform & Yellow Vests protests get heated in France (VIDEOS) Rallies against France’s pension reform and protests by anti-government Yellow Vests escalated into clashes with police in Paris and elsewhere on Saturday. Police used tear gas and force as some some threw stones and set fires. https://on.rt.com/a8ug ‘I wish I was dead’: Senior IRGC commander accepts responsibility for downing Ukrainian jet, says it was mistaken for missile A top Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) officer has revealed that the Ukrainian jet was mistaken for an incoming cruise missile and that the commander of the anti-aircraft unit had only 10 seconds to make the decision. https://on.rt.com/a8u3 After 3 years of acrimony, N Ireland has a government again Legislators picked DUP leader Arlene Foster as first minister — a post she held before the previous assembly was dissolved — with Sinn Fein’s Michelle O’Neil as deputy leader. https://apnews.com/333a3b3b37d2e50a67eb6735f35f4b8c Taiwan election: Tsai Ing-Wen wins landslide in rebuke to China Winning more than 8m votes, the most any presidential candidate has garnered since Taiwan began holding direct elections for the position in 1996, Tsai easily defeated her opponent Han Kuo-yu, whose Kuomintang party promotes closer ties with China. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/11/taiwan-re-elects-tsai-ing-wen-as-president-in-clear-message-to-china Royal Canadian Mounted Police advocated use of live fire against indigenous pipeline protesters

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>>211101 So, since democratisation in the 1990s Taiwan's political system has been split between two parties (technically blocs of parties, but they are dominated by two parties). The DPP promotes Taiwanese nationalism and sovereignty (although has never tried to go full-hog for independence, yet). The KMT however, takes a rather different approach. Since any integration of the PRC under the ROC is impossible, and people in the ROC don't want to become a part of China proper: they have previously tried to push economic integration to perhaps a level that would maybe allow for a Hong Kong style of deal. They famously tried to sign a PRC-ROC trade deal in 2014 (which was neoliberal to shit), which sparked the Taiwanese version of Occupy and basically lead to the creation of the ROC's only leftwing anti-neoliberal party of note, which was founded on opposing PRC economic integration. But yeah, the KMT supports integrating economically with the PRC as a path towards reunification as One China, Many Systems. Obviously the HK protests have killed such an idea, it's why the DPP won so hard. >>211125 This has nothing to do with the Left KMT.
>>208982 >>208997 DPP is technically more left wing economically and socially that wants to sever ties with China unlike KMT. They are honestly less cringe than the KMT.
>>211160 So nationalist mutt worshipping DPP nigs vs neoliberal KMT which just remained the same? Are there any left movement worthwhile over there in Taiwan?
NPP is okay I guess as a socdem party.
>>211422 meant to reply >>211412 Also nationalism in Taiwan is more like independence than any real love for 'Taiwan', although DPP is also supported by the indigenous people IIRC.

Regarding the current strawpoll. Anonymous 01/13/2020 (Mon) 02:43:40 No. 210822 [Reply] [Last]
Regarding the current vote: https://www.strawpoll.me/19209820/r I don't understand why people want to keep everything confined to one board. It doesn't make any sense to me. We have the capability of becoming so much more than what we were forced to be on 8ch.net. If the site as a whole was treated like leftypol this would allow post quality on the actual board to go up dramatically as everything "on topic" would be relegated to mostly political posts and posts revolving around economics. /hobby/ is still part of /leftypol/ it's just were things like the anime discussion go; those threads are lower quality and don't deserve to really be on the front page imo. We have a whole site now. Why is everyone still so set on treating this like it is 8ch?
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had this ready to go before the site went down >Why don't people want to use /hobby/ Every board has an identity. A core constituency of die-hard users that are ready to use it and check up on it even if its slow. /hobby/ has no identity. Its not a board anyone asked for, rather the staff of this site thought that rather than listen to what the users wanted, they'd head off the demand of the users for more boards(like /a/, /tv/, /his/, all those boards in the strawpoll months ago) by making just one board. This was supposed to prevent the site from "looking ugly" by not having slow moving boards. But months out and we can all see that /tech/ was a much better board than /hobby/ will ever be. /tech/ had a core of users that identified with it. That wanted it there. Even /dead/ as dead as it was, had personality, an identity. /hobby/ is just a bureaucratic trashbin with no connection to anyone. its alienating. rather than give users what they requested, the staff here has sought to bend users to use what they think "looks better" for the site overall. Its a mistake. You should simply give people what they want if enough people request it, this can be even a small handful of people. Things grow over time because outsiders see this core group taking an interest in a niche hobby and decide they want to see what the fuss is about.
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>>210914 other users echo'd the sentiments
>>210914 I agree, /hobby/ was a confusing moshpit of "do whatever" that never really had a structure or a chance to evolve it's own identity. /GET/ would have been the better alternative, imho.
>>210914 This. Listen to this guy, mods. We need different boards. Who cares if they're slow to start?
>>210867 Based janitor. Please kill comatoast. We voted. Fun allowed. End of

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