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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion.

IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan
https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=bunkerchan

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Arguing for socialism thread Anonymous 08/15/2019 (Thu) 09:38:03 No. 28703 [Reply]
What are the best approaches towards arguing for socialism?
What are some good but uncommon arguments for socialism?
What are the best ways to respond to the usual shit like "muh human nature" and the gorillions
Who are the best demographic for redpilling?
>>28703
>What are the best approaches towards arguing for socialism?
Pamphlets and revolutionary newspapers!

>What are some good but uncommon arguments for socialism?
Stalin did everything right.

>What are the best ways to respond to the usual shit like "muh human nature"
It doesn't exist.

>and the gorillions
Should have killed more.

>Who are the best demographic for redpilling?
Those who don't wish to be gulag'd.

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Quillette publishes hoax about DSA Comrade 08/09/2019 (Fri) 19:29:25 No. 20388 [Reply]
https://jacobinmag.com/2019/08/archie-carter-quillette-dsa

Quillette ran a hit piece on the DSA by Queens construction worker and "Marxist-Leninist-Alinskyite” Archie Carter. Surprise, surprise, it was a hoax. We talked to the real Archie Carter about why he embarrassed the conservative publication.

In successfully publishing an entirely fabricated narrative of blue-collar frustration with the “hipster comics and neurotic office-workers” of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), he had proven what many on the Left have long recognized: the Australian “journalistic” endeavor prioritizes ideological bias over fact.
11 posts and 1 image omitted.
Also, the guy who did the hoax was a Chapo trap house fan. It's fun watching the right turn themselves into pretzels to dismiss this, so they can keep pretending Andy Ngo is a great journalist.
>>27644
>love me love me love me I'm a liberal
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/quillette-dsa-and-hoax-wasnt

"
LAST week the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) concluded a historic national convention: at 57,000 members they have reached a size not seen on the US left since the Communist Party USA in the 1930s. Unfortunately over the last week the left has been reeling from a set of viral videos that showed the convention utterly subsumed by rank identity politics.

It wasn’t the only story from the Atlanta summit, at all — in fact the convention was an overall success.

But in terms of winning newcomers to the left and other leftists to the DSA, it was not. The battle for the soul of the left — the struggle to decide whether it is the cause of liberation for all (socialism) or a forum for competing grievances against the world (liberalism), seemed to have been won by the latter — at least at this meeting.

The convention, which was run on Robert’s Rules, the same standard set of rules every union and most political parties follow, was repeatedly disrupted by the DSA’s embrace of liberal activist-subcultural practices such as clapping bans, language policing, mandatory pronoun disclosure (“my name is William, he/him, from Wisconsin),” “hug rooms,” and the constant weaponisation of claims of disability, often invisible and unverifiable, to score political points or filibuster proceedings.
>>28646
When the video clips of this behaviour went viral, many DSA members lamented that the organisation was now a laughing stock, and many members also warned that these radical-liberal subcultural customs being enforced pointed towards the DSA potentially becoming disconnected and inaccessible to most working-class US residents in measured and reasoned critiques.

An account by one “Archie Carter” put it all very eloquently, telling the story of how they had gone from being an enthusiastic working-class member to a disheartened and disenfranchised ex-member who had failed to recruit any of his construction industry colleagues due to the organisations exclusive campus culture and wacky weirdness. It ended with an earnest plea that we get back to what unites us, the struggle for equality rather than competing group-based claims to justice (identity politics).

And it rang true, as it was what so many DSA members had said in different ways, and it was well observed — it was written by an actual DSA member and leftist as it turned out. But it was fake.
>>28647
The major mistruth was that the author did not exist, there was no Archie Carter, a working-class Marxist-Leninist builder from Queens, New York. The minor mistruths are incredibly niche and subtle.

Like the fact he was a Marxist-Leninist (a supporter of the Soviet model of socialism) and also a supporter of Saul Alinksy (a famous community organiser who did not support the USSR). Did you spot that? I actually did — but I assumed he supported the Alinsky method of organising the poor as part of his Marxist –Leninist plan to unify the working class and turn it on its exploiters.

Apparently, according to leftist Twitter, this was very stupid — but then I barely know anything about Saul Alinsky, and I’ve been a leftist, party member, union activist, you name it — for decades. So if I don’t get it, my colleagues definitely won’t. Having it pointed out to me does not have me groaning “Oh! Of course! How stupid of me.”

None of the hoax does. It reads like a completely straight account of someone’s time in the DSA that has ended roughly at the time when the videos of the 2019 convention came out, so they have made the decision to support the criticism being made with their own story.
Not exactly the scandal of the century.
Not exactly the scandal of the century.

It was perfectly believable that a left winger would go to a right-wing publication, knowing that his critical account would not be published in a left-wing platform. The fact it is fake does embarrass Quillette for not checking on the identity of the writer: they asked for proof of ID and he didn’t provide it, and they published anyway. But that is about it, and Quillette’s professional calibre is already discredited anyway.

For Jacobin magazine, who spoke to the hoaxer, to argue that “it took a fabulist to finally unmask” this “right-wing mythology — that the United States’ largest socialist organisation was nothing more than a hipster sham…” is far too optimistic.
>>28648
It exposes Quillette as unprofessional and biased, revelations nobody needed — but it provides no political response to the criticisms of the conference, especially not those who have never really heard of Quillette but are looking for answers to the horror-show DSA convention clips they had just seen on Youtube.

This is bad satire, bad hoaxing. None of it really adds up. Surely the point of a hoax like this is to show the target will accept obvious fakes that are mad and outlandish like the Sokal affair? Instead this was a set of pre-existing criticisms of the DSA and the wider modern left that many leftists would accept are valid to some extent. Almost exactly the same criticisms have been made by Class Unity, a genuine activist grouping in the DSA, in their article “Let Them Clap.” This was real content — just a fake writer.

Sending up the white working class is a safe choice for the author, but a dangerous game for the left. “Ha ha, you thought a builder from Queens who likes beer and sports was in the DSA and hated it, you fools?” Forgive us for being optimistic that he had at least been in the DSA. You would never see this with sex or race. Suppose to undermine controversy over accessibility for black people someone wrote in as Darnell Andre from Harlem?

Imagine if you will, a kid in school in the US that gets bullied for wearing clothes his mother picks out to school. One day he comes in in a new set of ridiculous, unfashionable clothes. As usual the majority of the class mock him; someone even posts a photo online the clothes are so silly. By lunchtime most of the school have seen it.

“Ha!” he cries in the lunch hall, “You think my mom picked these out, but actually I picked them out and I bought them with my own money — the joke’s on YOU!” While the exact culprit of the issue has been slightly extended to include both the boy and their mother, nothing else has changed: he is still standing there, in clothes that provoke mockery, and his peers are laughing at him.

It would be such an easy step to making friends and becoming more popular, simply changing his clothes – but he doesn’t want to potentially upset his mother and is unsure whether being popular is as important as being an individual.

This is the situation for the hoaxer and elements in the DSA that think the hoax has eclipsed the problems it described. This is also a decision for all of the modern left. Until practices like clapping bans, mandatory pronoun announcement, the ability to interrupt any speaker at any time with a “point of personal privilege” are themselves banned, trying to cheaply deflect the scorn of the general public to right-wing popinjays like Quillette is pissing in the wind.

The hoaxer and their supporters should instead be brave, grasp the nettle, and start clearing out the campus liberalism that has embarrassed and derailed the otherwise exciting work of their organisation. They have nothing to lose but constant mutual recrimination and hug rooms — they have an effective working-class left to win.

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Party thread Anonymous 08/15/2019 (Thu) 05:04:53 No. 28534 [Reply]
we back edition.
6 posts and 3 images omitted.
>>28550
Based and redpilled
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Finally
>>28557
I even missed you nazi poster
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i panicked a little when i saw that the topology was destroyed
>>28621
I looked it up on stack overflow and it was saying that the server lost connection when it was attempting to write data.

But also we apparently lost space.

ITT. Error creation needs to be less nebulous.

Anonymous 08/14/2019 (Wed) 16:26:05 No. 28216 [Reply]
Orange man mad >:(
12 posts omitted.
>>28553
There can be no fascist reaction without communists in power
>>28559
After a thermonuclear WW3 there won't be any productive forces left, dumbass. It would be a good environment for revolutionary upheavals but don't kid yourself that post-nuclear socialism would allow you to live better than even pre-nuclear capitalism.
You are right all, basically everything will be destroyed but assuming worst case and only the rich survive it will enough to probably be on the same field within a generation or two. I think people could figure how to live atleast civil war era tech until things have developed enough to quickly come back I mean if one library survives then you have basically everything you need.
>>28574
This is just objectively not true, fascists in Italy and Germany seized control without communists in power.
>>28586
Communism was in power in the USSR and haunted Europe's ruling classes. Germany and Italy had strong communist movements that almost seized power in 1918-1920 but failed due to matters of organization and various betrayals.

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we're back! Anonymous 08/15/2019 (Thu) 04:44:43 No. 28521 [Reply]
we're back!

seriously guys, wtf was that. I Literally made a backup chan it was taking so long -> leftypol.org
I too wanna know what happened tbh
>>28528
according to space:
>>28525
we ran out of... space

OH HO HO no pun intended

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What's the game plan here? Comrade 08/07/2019 (Wed) 22:32:47 No. 16022 [Reply]
There's no doubt that the majority of the people on this board are 8chan refugees, arriving after the site's shutdown. 8chan is still down, it's been undergoing maintenance for the past few days. My question is, once 8chan comes back up, do we all move back there? Or do we stay here on Bunkerchan, calling it our new permanent home?
52 posts and 9 images omitted.
The problem with staying here is that 8chan offered us a proximity to /pol/, our very existence there was triggering them and we ended up recruiting lurkers from other boards. I guess now we have to do our own outreach.

>>16105
>proofs
Jim confirmed it here:
https://youtu.be/yKPdbEAmWGE
>>27853
that's not proof in any way.
>>27853

https://youtu.be/ObmCzalA_Ro

Speaking of triggering, have you seen this projection by blackpigeonspeaks?

I'm a recent refugee, why aren't there any dates? I don't think I'll miss 8chan, but leftypol did make the best leftist OC and memes despite the disdain from "breadtube" and the twitter left clique.
I've had far too much fun on this site to go back to 8chan

fuck that and all the baggage that comes with it. We've established at least some semblance of non sectarian solidarity here too and I'd like to keep that.
>>16106
Eddy?

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How can we convert him into /ourguy/? Anonymous 08/14/2019 (Wed) 15:04:46 No. 28085 [Reply]
This Destiny guy is a pro-capitalist liberal who does political debates on YouTube, he has a large following of 213k subscribers.

How do we convert him away from his capitalist libtard views and to our cause?
there already is a thread about him

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Recruitment General Comrade 08/08/2019 (Thu) 14:35:16 No. 17639 [Reply]
Let's take it from the top!
Despite what Old BO and the various whiners are saying, I think we ought to keep building our user base. Leftypol is not a party with a strict line, but a broad left board where we get our kicks from getting into fun arguments, and that's the way I'd like to keep it.
So, let's talk about spreading the word.
PLEASE USE THIS THREAD TO RECORD ANY AND ALL RECRUITMENT ALREADY DONE; LINK TO THE POST YOU'VE MADE.
136 posts and 39 images omitted.
>>25153
>Who is this guy?
He is what happens when you're a nobook fag
Read your books little anon
>>20638
I posted a link on stupidpol too and it got deleted
>>19901
Ausneets, they seemed pretty upset about starting up a new commune on endchan, worried that endchan will quickly follow 8chan? Come join the commune in the bunker
might need to check with space to see if we can get a /ausneets/ board
Have you all seen this /lit/ thread yet?
https://boards.4channel.org/lit/thread/13632478
/pol/ has done a right job fucking up the place, it'd be a good time to come in and sweep up the mess and get the thread back on topic.
>>27254
I got you fam

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Mental Health Under Capitalism Comrade 08/11/2019 (Sun) 09:06:37 No. 23634 [Reply]
I thought it might be appropriate to have a thread about mental health since I know the society we live in can be very alienating and depressing. I wanted to make this thread to ask a few questions:
-Considering how the job of therapists/psychiatrists is more or less to help people function within the system, how would mental health be taken care of in a socialist society?
-What do you do personally to cope with the current system, and are you suffering from anything like depression, anxiety etc?
-If you do suffer from any of these things, do you identify the current system as being the predominant cause of it?
-Is mental health even something we should be concerning ourselves with, or is it just something that will be resolved by the abolition of capitalism anyways?

I'll be the first to admit to suffering from chronic depression and anxiety, though it has steadily improved over the years.
13 posts and 3 images omitted.
>>26992
I suggest finding friends to curb your suicidal ideation
>>26995
I have neither the intrinsic drive toward nor reward for scialisation and not the normal brain to be able to not fail at it anyway.
>>27002
Oh, if your brain is legitimately fucked I don't blame you for not having friends, obviously.
>>26988
I channel my suicidal tendency into seeking political martyrdom
>>26988
i'm the one you're replying to, but I hate talking to anyone I actually know about it because of this kind of reaction of "oh no thats sooo terrible", when my whole point is its not.

When I was a kid, I used to get nosebleeds sometimes, and everyone would start to panic and freak out if it happened in class but to me it wasn't a big deal at all. That's how I feel about this, it's just something that happens. Everyone else seems to give it an importance beyond just an illness.

>>27012
same

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am I a leftist? Anonymous 08/13/2019 (Tue) 18:52:24 No. 26809 [Reply]
I believe the state...

...should have absolute control over providing/using (no private companies):
Natural resources
Transport networks (road, rail)
Land redistribution
Power generation
Physical safety

...has a responsibility to provide to everyone:
Shelter
Food (basic)
Clothing (basic)
Healthcare
Justice
Education

Message too long. Click here to view full text.

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>>26869
Markets imply the existence of commodity exchange, so capitalism cannot be transcended without abolishing markets
>>26910
The VAST majority of proles within the capitalist system don't fucking """""compete""""". This is a petty bourgeois mentality. Pick up a fucking book for once
>>27515
So, essentially, normalizing war communism?
>>27515
you can have markets without commodities, i realize originally this was talking about mutualism, which is still capitalism, but too often I see people think markets are capitalism only. Towards a New Socialism has a whole section on how markets work after capitalism
>>27518
They compete for jobs and sex partners.

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