/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"I ain’t driving twenty minutes to riot"

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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join our matrix! https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org

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Anonymous 07/10/2020 (Fri) 17:39:49 No. 679971 [Reply] [Last]
I wish this stupid fucking book was never written It's made "ML" and especially "Maoist" radlibs 1000x more obnoxious and retarded 1619 but for the left bumplocked because shit attracts flies.
Edited last time by antious666 on 07/10/2020 (Fri) 18:29:09.
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>>681378 Sakai seems to be saying in that South Africa quote that there is literally no white proletariat that produces surplus value. I don't see how that could possibily be true, since at least some portion of whites worked the very same jobs as the black people Sakai would say are proletarian.
>>681390 >South Africa He's comparing the more diverse labor aristos in the US to whites in apartheid africa. so black labor aristos are like south african whites in the analogy.
>>681448 Ok then, wouldn't some of the American whites fall into the "black" proletariat then?
>>681465 yeah but it's marginal phenomenon. in the 1980s, the population of white proles was smaller than ever and all the pressures to partake in opportunism still existed. downward mobility among some whites has happened since then but that has to be balanced with increased extraction from the third world. all of this exists in dialectical relations, the definitions arn't fixed because it's a marxist analysis.

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Race and Class on the Delmarva Penisula Anonymous 07/09/2020 (Thu) 20:29:20 No. 677997 [Reply] [Last]
I have a few observations about the status of the working classes in the southern Delmarva penisula. Specifically I want to talk about the conditions of the white working class and I wonder what /leftypol/ thinks about these observations. In principal I noticed that there are essentially three classes of white people that exist, the white bourgoise, the white middle class and the white lumpen proletariat. The white bourgoise are land owners and speculators and typically very wealthy, living in gated communities, large farm houses or in the cities. Below them is the white middle class. They exist in suburban communities that look almost planned, smacked down along highways or on watersides, many of these suburbs look as if they could have existed just outside large cities and they all share the exact architecture. The interesting them about these suburbs is that they contain a wide variety of occupations and wealth levels, everything from traditionally industrial workers and miners all the way up to petty-bourgeois and civil servant / intelligentsia workers. Then below them is the white lumpenproletariat. A vast and growing segment, jobless, in horrible poverty, living in either lumpenized, falling apart versions of the suburbs I mentioned above or trailer park type situations that seem more like a squatter camp than an actual living space. But there is the thing, there seems to be only a very small amount of "working class" whites in, aka whites that are employed but do not fall into the essentially middle class social sphere and neighborhoods. The lumpenprole is almost never employed, and if he is, it is in a hustling type of work that is more inclined towards attaining short term money for drugs or such. Meanwhile virtually every employed white falls into a fairly middle class lifestyle. The coal miner has decent benefits and pay and can afford to live in a decent sized house with a car. His neighbor may be petty bourgoise or inteligentsia, and all classes of whites live together, from small bourgoise to farmers to proletariat, only the shameful lumpen excluded from the suburban dream because of his simply inability to find work. The proletariat condition, that of service work or agricultural labor, seems at best temporary for whites. White service workers are typically young, while black and latino service workers are sometimes elderly and often adults. In contrast to whites, black workers tend to live in low income, falling apart, government subsidized housing, of the type that can be seen dotting up and down the Eastern Shore of Maryland and Virginia. They work in Food-lions and Dollar Generals, or work the fields, jobs that would normally be temporary, teenage work, for the white workers last forever for the black workers. Immigrants also play a massive role. Even as far North and rural Maryland, immigrants are brought in on buses to work the fields and typically live right next to where they work, in an arrangement almost resembling a company store situation. Doubtlessly they are exploited and cheated in these arrangements. That is my observation. The white proletariat is hard to find in the massive gulf between the middle class social sphere and the dirt poverty of the white lumpen proletariat. This is not to say that they don't exist, but that they are observed into a very middle class worldview and lifestyle which seems very difficult to fall out of without being jettisoned out of the class structure all together and become a heroin addicted trailer park dweller.

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>>678948 I think some of this is applicable to the entire united states though
>>677997 You're welcome to come on down to southeastern Virginia where there's a large population of middle-class blacks living in modest suburbs next to white neighbors, holding down decent public or service-sector jobs, attending school or church and reliably turning out for local Democrats and delivering the highest proportional votes for Joe Biden in the state during the recent primary. The black middle class is alive and well in America, you just need to go into the cities to find them, they aren't rural. Not sure how this squares with your "analysis," the poor certainly trend black and the rich trend white, but racializing those in the middle just doesn't make sense.
>>679224 >What if they're not lifestyle choices What are you even talking about now? What specific behavior are you referring to?
>>679561 Actual retard.
>>680064 There are people like that in Maryland too.

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/effort/ v.2 Anonymous 06/04/2020 (Thu) 12:11:35 No. 573884 [Reply] [Last]
Link, copy, and screencap effort posts made by the community. Default post guideline ITT: 1) screencap + >>1 OR: >>1 + >text copied; 2) write short summary or why you think the /effort/ post is relevant for us. Please don't: 1) debate these posts here, but follow the links and argue in the respective threads; 2) if the link is already dead start a separate thread, explaining what you are arguing against and laying down your arguments. We tried these and the previous thread got buried for lack of bumps, while the content was pretty high quality. Feel free to debate them, but please, for the love of God, don't derail. Thank you. Example post: Pic2 is from >>564484 While the US riots are going on it is super important for the community to understand what makes good propaganda and what mistakes we should avoid, what tools we should use, so .pdf related is of a flier made by the community following these guidelines.
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>>665879 >"now" is a temporal-historical concept wOw YoU dOn'T sAy
>>573884 stop jerking each other off sage
>>679006 >Yes. Whilst during a revolution arming the proletariat is necessary, once victory is achieved, most firearms should be confiscated in order to make sure no further rebellions occur. People who believe the capitalists and fascists will just accept communism are idealists. The revolution is only the first step, next one must destroy all opposition, with force if necessary. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Tito, Hoxha, Castro... all knew this because they weren't blinded by idealism You are associating one thing with another which does not need associating at all, which is exactly the kind of thinking I took issue with here >>678931. I do not believe capitalists and fascists will just accept communism, and believe they should be crushed with impunity and authority. I also do not believe firearms should be taken from communists because of this, and in fact doing so makes actions against opportunists and internal reactionaries difficult to near impossible to resist. In Chile for example, the people largely supported Allende, but were unable to resist the military coup that occurred because firearm usage was restricted to near illegality. Mao himself didn't actually order the confiscation of weapons en mass, rather the peasantry was organized into cadre and officer led militias who engaged in mass suppression against counter revolutionary activity (https://www.rupe-india.org/59/han.html ). Hoxha permitted cashes of weapons to be kept in local townships as they had before the revolution to be used by the individuals to train in habitually to prepare for external aggression. Our goal should not only be to eliminate all traces of reactionary activity, but cultivate the proletariat to be a continual force that actively seeks out to do so on its own accord, even when the government itself collapses into revisionism. The proletariat masses should be treated as an army in its own right, an aggressive and violent will that enacts its authority upon those that would are its enemies, both foreign and domestic. Taking them out of this capacity takes them out of the revolution, and can only lead to complacency. Copypastad from From >>679047 Space added after https://www.rupe-india.org/59/han.html to fix linking issue
>>678821 >We need to ban religion because it's evil! nationalism bad! People need to stop adding one argument or view into another so as to invalidate it. Being critical of religion and nationalism does not in anyway necessitate the person in question being some kind of "PRO LGBTQIAAPP2S+" liberal, and its retarded to conflate the two to make an argument in support of such things. You are constructing a false dichotomy where none exists. This would be like if an anarchist decried chauvinistic activity, but then conjoined it to the idea of having a state, so that if you took issue with the former you must in turn take issue with the latter. But this conjoining did not need to exist in the first place, and you can very well take issue with chauvinism while being in support of a state, just like you can reject liberal label making while being critical of religion and nationalist tendencies. Copypastad from >>678931
>>582689 >>582695 You say "don't trust liberals" and then the next point is "don't separate people into good and bad protesters". Could you explain this a bit more

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CHAZ/CHOP and its relevance Anonymous 07/08/2020 (Wed) 01:27:53 No. 673881 [Reply] [Last]
Ok, so I wanted to get peoples opinions, did the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone/Capitol Hill Organized Protest get anywhere near actual anarchism? Were they set up like a correct anarchist society? They seemed to be built in the image of an Anarchist society, but personally it really didn't seem like one.
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>>677141 >racial struggle BLM is black supremacist at this point
>>673881 It was anarchy alright. Hopefully, it might help thick-headed anarchists understand that their vision for the future is trash and that they ought to grow up and become real Marxists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uiGcsUlnjI >Putin: West Opened Pandora Box By Supporting Kosovo Albanians' Illegal Breakaway From Serbia
How many people were killed by the CHAZ "not cops" ?
>>675908 >fear of escalation made them move Same difference. It spooked them.

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when will burgers learn what "left wing" means? Anonymous 07/09/2020 (Thu) 18:11:27 No. 677708 [Reply] [Last]
how did american politics get so far auth right compared to more civilised countries like europe or africa? are burgers genuinely still culturally brainwashed from the cold war?
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>>679431 >Lenin even though they have no radical convictions at all. sectarianism from the left-deviation
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>>678319 this is one of the most retarded shit I've ever heard. Like holy shit I think I lost some neurons.
>>677770 what’s the qualitative difference then? you can’t just say that there’s a “clear qualitative difference” and use this vague statement as “proof” there is a legitimate authoritarian-libertarian axis
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>>677820 Who is "we"? Are you speaking for some kind of organization? If you want to speak for the anarchists, their point of contention is indeed muh authoritarianism. >The romantic revolutionary arguments as to why the Communists must 'lead the revolution from feudalism into socialism' is no longer even relevant. Name one who says that. >The question is how we rupture global capital with a DotP in the establishment of communist measures. And Marxist-Leninists do not want that?

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Why feminists defending harmful industry nowadays? Anonymous 07/10/2020 (Fri) 15:44:55 No. 679765 [Reply] [Last]
>if you don't support the porn industry you're a SWERF
anti tranny idpol, idpol in general
>if you don't support the porn industry you're a SWERF does anyone actually say that though? sounds like strawman

Anonymous 07/09/2020 (Thu) 05:28:40 No. 676530 [Reply] [Last]
I'm not a fan of Orwell but this quote from him (from .epub related) resonates with me: >The first thing that must strike any outside observer is that Socialism in its developed form is a theory confined entirely to the middle class. The typical Socialist is not, as tremulous old ladies imagine, a ferocious-looking working man with greasy overalls and a raucous voice. He is either a youthful snob-Bolshevik who in five years’ time will quite probably have made a wealthy marriage and been converted to Roman Catholicism; or, still more typically, a prim little man with a white-collar job, usually a secret teetotaller and often with vegetarian leanings, with a history of Nonconformity behind him, and, above all, with a social position which he has no intention of forfeiting. This last type is surprisingly common in Socialist parties of every shade; it has perhaps been taken over en bloc from the old Liberal Party. In addition to this there is the horrible – the really disquieting – prevalence of cranks wherever Socialists are gathered together. One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist and feminist in England. One day this summer I was riding through Letchworth when the bus stopped and two dreadful-looking old men got onto it. They were both about sixty, both very short, pink and chubby, and both hatless. One of them was obscenely bald, the other had long grey hair bobbed in the Lloyd George style. They were dressed in pistachio-coloured shirts and khaki shorts into which their huge bottoms were crammed so tightly that you could study every dimple. Their appearance created a mild stir of horror on top of the bus. The man next to me, a commercial traveller I should say, glanced at me, at them, and back again at me, and murmured, ‘Socialists’, as who should say, ‘Red Indians’. He was probably right – the ILP were holding their summer school at Letchworth. But the point is that to him, as an ordinary man, a crank meant a Socialist and a Socialist meant a crank. Any Socialist, he probably felt, could be counted on to have something eccentric about him. And some such notion seems to exist even among Socialists themselves. For instance, I have here a prospectus from another summer school which states its terms per week and then asks me to say ‘whether my diet is ordinary or vegetarian’. They take it for granted, you see, that it is necessary to ask this question. This kind of thing is by itself sufficient to alienate plenty of decent people. And their instinct is perfectly sound, for the food-crank is by definition a person willing to cut himself off from human society in hopes of adding five years onto the life of his carcase; that is, a person out of touch with common humanity. I mean... come on, man.
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>>676554 I've also seen several unironic Marxists calling for killing all Fenno-Swedes because they're all bourgs or something. Does that mean that Marxism is bad? No.
>>676791 Twitter is full of Shitlibs self-identifying as anarchists.
>>679708 >Shitlibs Has anyone noticed how the woke crowd has appropriated "lib" as an insult? For example, whenever the Chapo Trap House podcast expresses some mild criticism of something idpol-related, reddit and twitter wokies go "ugh why are they such libs!?". It's weird to see.
>>679715 Wait. Doesn't shitlib mean one of those """woke""" libs who border on race-reductionist and calls for reparations? Can't even keep up with the lingo nowadays.
>muh working daddy wearing overalls Retarded

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Zionism and Israel Anonymous 07/03/2020 (Fri) 03:58:40 No. 662779 [Reply] [Last]
In 1975, Zionism was officially defined under international law as a racist ideology, in part thanks to soviet efforts. Since the demise of the Eastern bloc the resolution has been repealed and anti-zionism has basically disappeared from the political map. The right wing is overwhelmingly zionist and has made sure all attempts to criticize Zionism or Israel are equated to anti-semitism and discredited. So is anti-zionist activism even politically viable today? What should be the strategy of socialists this decade? And where does everyone here stand on the Israel question?
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>>679236 >we can kill natives cuz uhhhhhhhhhhh god brace belden was right when he said that israel is just america for jews
>>679530 >Serbia: How many levels of "we wuz" are you? <Poland: Uh, I don't know, maybe one or two Sarmatians? >Serbia: You are like baby, watch this
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>>662779 Zionists have formed a pact with anti-semites, where basically the anti-semites want daJoos out of their countries and Zionists want to have all daJoos in Israel. The right wing hence supports Zionism as "the different solution" Their logic is, to get rid of people, give them a destination. Both the right-wing and the Zionists want to destroy the Jewish-diaspora, and concentrate daJoos in one place, but they moved on from Gas-chambers. Technically this is an improvement compared to historic events, but somehow they still managed to make a plan where they need to destroy a group of people, this time around it's Palestinians, which are ethnic Semites too, so emphasis on "technically".
>>679691 this, the irony is that the majority of early pre-israel zionist thinkers were christians, for the same reasons that evangelicals are zionists today

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Socialism Would Have Been Easy to Discredit, Had There Been Growth Anonymous 07/10/2020 (Fri) 13:05:28 No. 679509 [Reply] [Last]
>>679509 Hmmm today I will post a randlom weblink with literally no otger information and say nothing Fuck off back to reddit chapotard
>>679509 i have no idea what that article said, it seemed like somebody copy pasted various anti-communist text-bocks into a sort of incoherent rant. The workers created the wealth, it's theirs do with as they please.

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Anonymous 07/10/2020 (Fri) 00:54:39 No. 678576 [Reply] [Last]
How true is this? My ancap friend is tearing it apart. "First off, nothing is "free". Everything costs resources and energy. Labour costs energy both from the worker and whatever facility they are using. Acquiring labour and resources in general has a cost, as well. Next, if you're not making capital, you can't pay workers anyway. It's not like you can just continually pay people (even if it's small) without earning back capital. All incoming profits DO go back to the workers, just disproportionately to the work they put in. Business owners definitely deserve to make more than their workers, but not by a margin of 1000% or some shit."
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>>679284 adam smith wanted an inheritance tax amazing that something like this could be published on 'his' website though https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/tax-spending/the-case-for-abolishing-inheritance-tax
>>679343 It's pretty well known that the ASI is more influenced by Hayek than Smith. Hayek, who said children need to be conditioned to remove their natural inclination towards fairness.
>>678576 >All incoming profits DO go back to the workers Nah, a sizeable and evergrowing chunk of profits get stuck in the finance system and just churns there instead of being turned around back into wages unless gubmint steps in to do something about it (they never do)
>>679380 Profit is what is extracted from workers. It's what is left once you have paid your workers their wages.
attaching yourself to vague abstract concepts like freedom, free, and liberty is how you develop retarded anarchist ideology. it doesn’t help if you’re comfy middle class either

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