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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

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/ita/ - Spaghetti Communism Anonymous 08/05/2020 (Wed) 11:45:39 No. 747462 [Reply] [Last]
Thread dedicato al paese con il popolo più analfabeta e la borghesia più ignorante d'Europa, dove ci sono più partiti comunisti che comunisti stessi. In un modo o nell'altro, cerchiamo di riprenderci il paese e il futuro che Confindustria ci ha rubato insieme ai suoi servi. Foreign comrades are welcome. Previous thread: >>19862
Edited last time by krates on 08/06/2020 (Thu) 18:10:22.
374 posts and 104 images omitted.
>>1163617 Who knows? He wanted to avoid a bloodshed after he got shot, he was fully aware that a communist insurrection would have been crushed by the american troops on Italian soil. His worst error was probably the amnisty that started a series of other amnisties that saved the ass of many fascists while some partizans had to escape to czechoslovakia.
Redpill on the foibe
>>1171970 Foibe were used by all sides of the conflict to quickly dispose of corpses and nazis used them first in '43 IIRC. After the war many Italians who settled in Croatia had to go back to Italy and this started the myth of the genocide of Italians at the hands of Tito. No more than a few hundred of Italian corpses were found in the foibe (mostly occupying soldiers and fascists) but right-wingers like to inflate numbers so according ot the official propaganda THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of Italian were killed and thrown into the foibe by BLOODTHIRSTY communist partizans, usually followed by pictures of Italian war crimes in the Balkans passed as Titoist crimes. There's a whole lot of fascist propaganda on this with books made by quack historians, grade Z movies and so on, that keep the lie going. There's a day of remembrance for the "victims" of foibe, which was instituted by Berlusconi's government after the previous centre-left government instituted a day of remembrance for the shoah. I hope this answer your question, unfortunately most of the materials on foibe are either in Italian, in Croatian or Slovene.
>>1172140 Potresti consigliarni in libro o del materiale sulle foibe? Ovviamente non le cazzate liberali o fascisti

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Why do rightoids hate vaccines? Anonymous 11/19/2020 (Thu) 22:59:49 No. 1153268 [Reply] [Last]
Vaccines work. Prove me wrong. It has eradicated almost every disease it has been issued for. Poliomyelitis was eradicated by the 1980s thanks to vaccines. It started off as tens of thousands of cases in the US yearly in the 50s, then dropped to several hundred in the 60s and just a dozen or so in the 70s before disappearing altogether. Another thing is tetanus. Tetanus is found everywhere, but it comes from the soil. It is a naturally occurring neurotoxin that vaccination has been proven to work against. In the 1940s, we had 500+ cases annually. But now we only have about 30 cases annually, and even then it's usually because the person wasn't vaccinated for a variety of reasons (such as being allergic to the vaccine) or they weren't up-to-date with their booster shots. With rabies, in the 1950s we had on average 10.2 human cases yearly. But unlike polio, animal-borne diseases are generally harder to eliminate, hence why it still exists. Although the North American canine variant of the virus has been declared extinct by the CDC as of 2007 and the last human case from a dog bite occurring within the United States happened in 1994 in Texas (Rolando Bazan, 14, pictured). Smallpox was wiped out permanently through vaccines, as was diphtheria. Even if we were to assume that vaccines were causing autism, are you honestly saying that that's actually worse than being placed on an iron lung for the rest of your life? Anti-vaxxers are such pieces of shit that their children are actually dying because of preventable diseases all because of some shit they saw on FaceBook. "Natural remedies" are bullshit, when it comes to diseases, nature is never your friend.
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The anti-vax is one part truth (vaccination programs are used as cover for depopulation) and one part fiction (vaccines themselves are unscientific and the concept of vaccination is eugenic in purpose). The former is the hook, but large quantities of anti-vax literature emphasize the latter and obsessively focus on an alternate science, rather than the truth. The usual pattern is that Bill Gates said something about reducing population through vaccine programs - which is something he did say, loudly and proudly - and thus the problem is you must reject vaccines altogether, and that the vaccines are "bad genes". In doing so, they have turned resistance against abuses committed by the organizations, into an idealist argument that leads nowhere. This then is used to sell an "alterna-eugenics" which fills the incredulous, outraged dissident with the same principles as a eugenist, and wastes their effort looking at the vaccine and the biological rather than acknowledging what is really happening. It doesn't always go like this, and qualified scientists have cast doubt on whether vaccination itself works, or exposed how Bill Gates is further depopulation goals in Africa. (The latter is more or less an openly admitted, common knowledge goal, going back to the 1960s and the new way imperialism was going to work. LBJ would say outright that poor countries better get with population control programs or else, and that it was an open agenda for US foreign policy.) But if the eugenists can put shit like NaturalNews at the top of the search index, and can create an echo chamber where outraged citizens read of atrocities and are supplied with a false answer, it becomes self-perpetuating. The silly thing about rightoids is that they're so confused that they don't even get their own leaders hold them in open contempt. Almost all of these churches that speak of anti-vax are taking money and look the other way when it happens to some poor heathen brown person. The alterna-eugenics helps the rightoid accept that such programs are actually good if they're used against the "bad people" (i.e., poor brown people), and also gets the rightoid to accept the inevitability of poor people being sterilized. That said, more of the rightoids aren't even opposed to sterilization, because now overt Hitlerism has been legitimized. They just laugh and say the poor people deserve it, then they avoid the vaccinations because they feel they don't need it.
>>1153624 None of this coronavirus shit, the reporting the government gives us, the directives they issue, has been about a virus. There may very well be a virus, but everything about this is so ominous and over-the-top that you might as well assume the ruling class is satanically evil. Either way, the US scam is done. The ruling class isn't even pretending at this point. >>1153668 Probability has nothing to do with why people are distrustful. It does matter for public health policy, because there will be deaths and damages from vaccines given universally. If you have every reason to distrust the regime, are you going to take any chance with their directives? I wouldn't be surprised if, through collection of data, different populations will be given different injections, with different results intended. Then you just keep enough FUD so that people don't compare notes, and when people on SSI suddenly report that they're sterile, you dismiss them as crazy.
>>1153753 And they dare say that eugenics doesn't exist.
>>1172175 my my, eugenics-kun, hasnt this schtick tired you yet
>>1172251 never gonna stop shouting.

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Anonymous 10/19/2020 (Mon) 07:16:31 No. 1013081 [Reply] [Last]
Alunya appreciation thread, post your favourite Alunyas~
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>>1153545 Erika / Polina
Would you smell Alunya's feet?
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>>1171355 >shaven ugh, what the fuck anon

Anonymous 11/17/2020 (Tue) 08:11:32 No. 1143802 [Reply] [Last]
>Nicaragua is the safest country in Central America and one of the safest in Latin America, according to the United Nations Development Program, with a homicide rate of 8.7 per 100,000 inhabitants >The Nicaraguan government guarantees universal free health care for its citizens. >Nicaragua still has a Sandinista president and Sandinista dominated government Fucking nice. Post figures that give this kind of feel.
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>>1147241 >things are getting better in this country <yeah but the improvements still aren't perfect therefore it is worthless
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Reminder that these are the people who hate the FSLN https://youtu.be/_AcrHwmtOjA https://youtu.be/pbCxMOSulqI Disconnected academics with some overt imperialism mixed in.
>>1147474 Asking for people to not be disingenuous toadies for capitalism with a human face is not asking for perfection, you brainless gopher.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLhtV7iA4Yc&feature=emb_logo >Wealthiest country in the world, along with its lackeys, tries to do an imperialism on you >gets BTFO'd >gets BTFO'd so hard that the soldiers that tried to break your country are now spooked and radicalised against their home country >They fight against the imperialist government and its civilians >mfw

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/ecology/ Anonymous 11/21/2020 (Sat) 10:51:45 No. 1157139 [Reply] [Last]
Howdy, Comrades. I thought this would be an interesting thread to have discussion and debate regarding Eco-socialism. Be free to post pdfs of recommended readings, place forward manuals relating to gardening/ permaculture etc. as well as be free to funpost about wildlife and solarpunk. Let's try and keep this thread comfy and somewhat respectful.
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>>1171181 ...so? >>1171170 No but this is
>>1163244 What's that Korean man-made city Zizek wrote about? Porky luxury with transgender bathrooms and artificial greenery to replace the habitats reclaimed from the sea.
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>>1157139 Whats the reccomended Bookchin reading order, plus any other essential green anarchists??
>>1171166 >Have u seen Soviet cities Yes uighur. I live in a Gorbachev era district, and its green as fuck. My nan lives in a Khruschevite era district, and its green as fuck. I once went to a school in a Stalinist district, and it was also somewhat green. Obviously, big city centres, by their very nature, won't ever be that green, but that is a tiny part of the whole city.
>>1171829 Yes, that's my point. Did you read my greentext? И Я тоже в этом рос

Sup ML’s, can you redpill me? Anonymous 11/18/2020 (Wed) 02:39:36 No. 1146994 [Reply] [Last]
I’m a libertarian socialist and I’m really interested in learning more about these authoritarian states, such as common misconceptions and cool facts about them that could help me defend these states in a debate. >What are the core beliefs of ML? >Is china capitalist? Why do they have corporations and billionaires? >Was life under the USSR as bad as people say it is? (working conditions, egalitarianism, etc.) >Are the “kill counts” for socialist “dictators” all blown out of proportion and fake? >Was the USSR imperialist? I’d also really appreciate some books and shit I could read, I’m already reading some Lenin stuff
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>>1147045 I'm not a simp but I always thought she was a qt
>>1159302 What kind of argument can be made when the OP never made one He called China fascist based off of class collaboration with the national bourgeoisie Was fucking Mao a fascist retard
>>1163601 Mao presided over a Socialist mode of production, which is a Planned Socialist economic system with State-ownership of the means of production and exchange (State-ownership of large and medium sized companies with no Stock exchanges) along with a massive Safety-net (Free Housing, Free Healthcare, Free Education, Job Guarantee, etc.) with a Dictatorship of the proletariat (One-Party Marxist-Leninist state). Dengist China has a Capitalist mode of production, which is a Market Capitalist economic system with Private-ownership of the means of production and exchange (Private Multinational corporations combined with SOEs that have shares traded on Stock exchanges) and a nonexistent Safety-net (The Maoist-era “Iron rice bowl” was completely privatized in the 1990s), with a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoise (a One-party state in which the ruling “Communist” party serves the interest of the Bourgeoise). By definition, a One-party state with a Planned Socialist economic system is a Socialist Dictatorship of the proletariat, a One-party state with a Market Capitalist Economic system is a Fascist Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie, and a Multi-party state with a Market Capitalist economic system is a Liberal Dictatorship of the Bourgeoise.
>>1165403 Any response to my Analysis?

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Anonymous 11/20/2020 (Fri) 18:58:32 No. 1155648 [Reply] [Last]
so leftypol is officially anti-zionist and yet people defend Stalin who was pro Zionism? how do stalinoids cope?
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Israel was created by the British The UK was in the allies The Soviet Union was in the allies Churchill almost left the allies because he hated Stalin for calling him (Churchill) out on his bullshit Thus Stalin had to support Israel to keep the allies together Of course that’s speculation so he might have been an unironic Zionist I don’t know Also labor Zionism was one of the most popular brands of Zionism at the time so there was that
If it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure Israel's communist party has reformed its previous position on Zionism, nowadays they run in the Joint List in coalition with parties for Arab and Palestinian Civil Rights
>>1171338 I don't see a problem with usury or hoarding money. I'm not emphatic to arguments against it; you must be willing to do whatever it takes to make money to survive in this world
>>1171347 the liquidation of judaic culture is essential for emancipation of the workers thats why I am empathetic to those who fight against them wether it is with selective repression or genocide after all we must be willing to do wahtever it takes to survive
>>1155700 Go read settlers you fag

Debate fascism Anonymous 11/20/2020 (Fri) 04:54:05 No. 1153880 [Reply] [Last]
I am a fascist, I am more well versed in fascism than the average person who calls themselves a fascist, or the average person who antagonizes fascism. If you are ignorant of fascism's Marxist or syndicalist roots, I suggest you read up on theory. Otherwise, you can ask me anything and pick my brain.
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>>1171389 >>1171408 There's already a lolbert hate thread, go cry there.
>>1171579 *20 IQ
>>1171573 That thing needs at least a little more work put into it. Maybe make convert all punctuation to exclamation points?
>>1171389 Fascism came out of the arguments about the state and future society coming out of continental Europe, particularly Germany, in the 19th century. So there are some commonalities with the people who became Marxists, who looked to the collective rather than the individual. But the reality is that there are no collectives that exist as a feeling, as some omnipresent fog. There are people, and organizations of people, and the machines they build. The nation itself is an imagined community, as is the concept of "race-consciousness" that was a major part of forming nationalism. You can trace the origins of fascism to the socialist program itself (and remember, in its early history, socialism was not "left-wing", and the concept of national socialism and reactionary socialism, or shit like the Fabians, was a thing). The surviving socialism (or at least the socialisms that didn't rebrand into some form of capitalism or progressivism) was leftists because the Marxists won out, and all the centrist or right-wing socialisms eventually folded into support for global capitalism and the capitalist oligarchs outright. Fascism became a thing because it was funded by oligarchs around the world, because they needed something better than liberalism, something that gave the right a revolutionary character. Before fascism, the right was the domain of the aristocrats that were left, and rich capitalists who wanted to act as a new aristocracy in all but name. Its popular appeal was abysmally low, only barely able to hold the attention of the small-c conservative commoners because the liberal program was so fucking godawful. >>1171408 Neoliberalism is a thing, but it's not what most people saying the word think it is. Neoliberalism is referring to a very specific program that rose alongside fascists, that supported fascists, and that proclaimed that Social Darwinism is and should be the organizing principle of all humanity. It's not quite "fascism" - you can have neoliberalism and still have nominal democratic institutions - but it inevitably trends towards fascism. The truth of course is that the foundation for much of the 20th century's organization is a belief in biology, in the eugenics project, that has gripped the entire world. And you can have eugenic type thinking in any sort of government, but it inevitably tends towards dictatorial governments and conceptions of fascism, the all-powerful and amorphous State that is everywhere. And this tendency goes back to all the philosophy that was coming out of continental Europe, even the Marxists themselves. There isn't a lot of individualism, or a conception of balancing individual agents with the whole community. There is just the collective, "the people" as some abstraction rather than actual people. They may espouse different takes on the role of the state, and what kind of economic relations should prevail. What confuses me about all of this is how people believed that the direction any of this was going was towards greater freedom and liberty, and that somehow the workers were going to seize the factories (with what army?) By the mid-late 19th century, all the trends were pointing towards consolidation of power in larger capitals and organizations, and that is what would be suggested if capitalism does its thing.
>>1170260 Okay, step back. Ask yourself, what are you really trying to do when you talk about risk and innovation? You're attempting to find a monetary value to very intangible things, which is very difficult to gauge. If you are working solely with exchange-value, money is a really bad heuristic for what is going to be beneficial in the long term, for a lot of reasons. This is something that a lot of liberals and conservatives alike are well aware of. They didn't ask to live in a world of money at the start of capitalism, but they found themselves in a situation where money and commodities are unavoidable. If they could find a way other than money to enforce their property, they would be very happy to use it. The reality under capitalism is that risk is assumed by the middle and lower classes, and innovation only exists to be exploited by those who can steal your ideas. The boss doesn't care how creative you are, only that your creativity can be used to make money. You, the inventor, often get fucked, either having your idea stolen or getting a pittance of the value (and in today's society, you have to surrender intellectual property rights to the corporation). How does a fascist society resolve this? Obviously, it doesn't. Fascism is about the state and corporatism, about the corporation and state fusing. The fascist solution isn't to make "good institutions" - it's the victory that the capitalists seek, where a cartel of corporations become the state and abandon pretenses of democracy, nation in their government. A fascist solution would seek to make the less valuable members of the state, the subordinated members, assume all the risk, because the commanding heights of the economy are too big to fail.

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Liberalism Anonymous 11/25/2020 (Wed) 18:48:10 No. 1170036 [Reply] [Last]
Why is it that liberalism largely has trouble spreading itself outside of the imperial core? Is there something about its ideology that makes it incompatible with periphery nations, and if so what is the typical capitalist ideology that periphery nations' states adopt instead? Also, with the rise of reacitonary populism, are we going to see liberals start advocating for anti-democratic states e.g. technocracy?
>>1170036 >Why is it that liberalism largely has trouble spreading itself outside of the imperial core? because there are different cultures and liberalism is largely social/cultural. those sorts of things take generations even in the imperial core. how much longer one could expect it to take in a society that, for instance, didn't worship individualism. >what is the typical capitalist ideology that periphery nations' states adopt instead? doing well for one's family and making a new family. >are we going to see liberals start advocating for anti-democratic states we already are. liberals only like democracy so long as they're in the majority. if they're not in the majority they call it fascism. this extreme perspective of zero sum is 100% the authoritarian aspiration. behind it is the fantasy if not the outright desire of "no more republican presidents." a democracy isn't measured by "are there elections" but rather "is there movement in the political system." most liberals would prefer that nobody rocked the boat
Liberalism is still pretty hegemonic even if it's in decline. It's the ethos of the international bourgeoisie who still have their claws on pretty much every government in the world. The only reason it doesn't penetrate to the lower classes in the global south is because they're too poor to buy into it
it has to do with colonialism and the fact that many european states were largely involved with contradicting cultures around the globe. there's a reason that Britain, the largest empire in the world before the United States, was the hotbed for the european enlightenment, which is a cultural movement that basically prototyped liberalism. having liberal values amounts to what could be called "culturally centrist" beliefs, which is perfect for managing trade and exploitation about an intercontinental empire.
>>1170397 Technically France was the hotbed of liberalism for the vast majority of Europe (via the French Revolution and Napoleon’s conquests). The United Kingdom was among the conservative powers that demonized the revolution and sought to restore the Ancien Régime, not to mention working in tandem with Austria to preserve a pre-revolution order via the Congress of Vienna. Of course, that’s not to say that the Enlightenment in Britain didn’t contribute to the development of liberalism across the world, but that France simply takes the cake for spreading liberalism across Europe. You’re also correct in your analysis, in that France was the greatest imperial rival to Britain at the time and so has much of the same roots in developing liberalism, culturally speaking.
>>1170036 i hope that tweet is a parody

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🇰🇵/dprk/ -- DPR Korea General🇰🇵 Comrade 08/05/2019 (Mon) 14:04:23 No. 9051 [Reply] [Last]
Thread for news and discussions of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, its material conditions, the status and health of its socialist tradition, disproving common myths about it, etc. Archive of first ~500 posts on original thread: https://archive.fo/pRkxK Subsequent archives: https://archive.fo/https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2265496.html Related archives: https://archive.fo/HbuXi https://archive.fo/https://8ch.net/leftpol/res/36983.html
Edited last time by krates on 11/26/2020 (Thu) 02:57:43.
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>>1170111 Voting is compulsory in North Korea. The votes decide which WPK candidate represents their region.
>young gymnast defector jumped over a 3 meter wall to defect to the south latest bit of hot news (assuming the details are not faked)
>>1170111 The candidates for each district are selected by consensus before the election in mass meetings
Soviet and American proclamations to the people of Korea following the surrender of Japan
>>1171349 Soviet declaration: Rejoice, Koreans! you are finally free from the yoke of Japanese imperialism, let us work together for a bright future for the Korean people Burger speech: Alright gooks, new boss is in town. Here are the do's and dont's

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