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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion.

IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan
https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=bunkerchan

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Anonymous 01/21/2020 (Tue) 01:17:04 No. 223103 [Reply] [Last]
Is violent revolution possible any more given the fact that we've taken lead out of the gasoline? It seems people are far too docile to do it these days.
3 posts omitted.
The real question is if revolution is possible in the first place.
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>>223110 >>223112 do you mean we should vote in someone promising to bring back leaded gasoline?
>>223121 >electoralism Lame. No, we just go around adding lead to people’s fuel by pouring it down their petrol cap. Direct action gets the good
>>223130 >Direct action Anarkiddie please The only realistic strategy is the formation of a vanguard party of professional Communists huffing leaded gas
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>>223130 >>223135 Thanks for the good ideas guys

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What did he mean by this? Anonymous 01/18/2020 (Sat) 21:21:16 No. 219371 [Reply] [Last]
>Against Marxism and socialism, let us affirm that the economy and economic interests in all their forms have always exercised — and always will exercise — a subordinate function in normal humanity; that history and every healthy sociopolitical structure are determined by forces of a different sort; and that the fundamental fallacy is to believe that material, environmental factors and conditions of affluence, wealth, or poverty play a decisive role for real human progress.
17 posts and 2 images omitted.
< I don't like equality
>>222598 >As long as we talk about nothing else but economic classes, work, wages, and production; and as long as we delude ourselves that real human progress and the genuine elevation of the individual is conditioned by a particular system of distribution of wealth and goods, and therefore has to do with poverty and ease, with the state of prosperity a la the United States or with that of utopian socialism, we yet remain on the same level as that which we need to combat. We need to assert the following: that everything that relates to economy and the view of economic interest as a mere satisfaction of physical needs has had, has now, and always will have a subordinate role in a normal humanity. Beyond this sphere we need to separate an order of superior values which are political, spiritual, and heroic; an order that — as we already said — does not recognise, or even admit, ‘proletarians’ or ‘capitalists’. It is only in terms of this order that it is proper to define the things for which it is worth living and dying, which establish a true hierarchy, which differentiate new ranks of dignity, and, at the top, place on the throne a superior function of command, an Imperium .
>>222709 Leftists hate equality. They want maximum individual freedom which is just an excuse for hierarchy and inequality.
>>219384 >implying the economy is "real" read baudrillard
>>222785 Redpill me on Baudrillard

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Would you ever ally with Fascists to defeat a common enemy? Anonymous 01/09/2020 (Thu) 22:12:41 No. 206550 [Reply] [Last]
If so in what plausible scenarios could this ever play out?
152 posts and 21 images omitted.
>>216905 Of course it's the succdem saying ths
>>206550 We must combat imperialism and fascism as we do capitalism. Reactionaries come in many different forms, but we have to fight them as common enemies of the people.
This is a bit silly. You don't "overthrow capitalism" by making popular fronts with fascists. That's reformism. You form the class party, organically, from the Communist Programme.
>>221340 N A Z B O L
>>206662 Is that a chopper suit?

Virginia Protest General: Extra 'Murican Edition Anonymous 12/17/2019 (Tue) 20:11:11 No. 165948 [Reply] [Last]
What it is: Habbening in VA on January 2Oth

What type of happening: Right-wing rally and possible revolution/civil war.

4pol thread:
http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/236502924
504 posts and 82 images omitted.
>/pol/: today we begin le boog!! lefties beware! time to kill jews and nigs lmao bottom text <nothing happens, like literally the biggest nothingburger since UTR 2.0 >/pol/: h-haha actually the jewish media wanted us to do something so we did nothing, that is an epic win for us If you still take /pol/ even slightly seriously, you should self-crit
>>222759 >Why are right-wingers so fucking impotent and delusional? They have a march which has so little energy it makes an Ohio retirement home seem lively. It's also not clear the gun bill they're protesting against is in any danger of failing. They may have made it more likely to pass by looking like a bunch of whackjobs. The key to understanding American gun culture is that it's a way for grown men with enough money and free time to play G.I. Joe without any of the risk.
>>222162 oh noes a reactionary I as a retard ultra left am unable to grasp the concept of using this man as a useful idiot for everybody else.
>>221786 >I know people who actively think he wants to allow abortions up to live birth If these people were the spartan types they think they are, they would be throwing babies off cliffs >wants the national guard to openly kill people That's because that is what they do to strikers.
Where were all these larping hicks when Trump said and still does, support red flag laws, and the bump stock ban?

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Debunk thread Anonymous 01/09/2020 (Thu) 22:06:09 No. 206527 [Reply] [Last]
It would be nice if we could properly debunk some /pol/ memes/other untruths, especially the more common ones. Starting off with this old screenshot:
166 posts and 24 images omitted.
Bunkerchan are literal cucks, why the fuck don't they focus on their fucking chan?
>>222386 Why don’t you go focus on your own Chan? >>>/pol/
>>211595 Honestly if the dems are "too far left" for the average american then fuck America and let it rot. Isolate it and eventually nuke it, such a hive of scum are only a negative for the world.
>>206527 do arguments like these, and the other dross the spit out like phlegm, really need debunking? >it's fake <best entertain their purely made up ideas just point out their lies to anyone who isn't too far gone (i.e. no one on 4chan) and then move on. you're not going to win over these people with any sincere debate since intellectual pursuit has never been their aim. oh wait, there aim is white supremacy and a desire to pursue a bastardised christian spiritual question. best leave them to it

Anonymous 01/19/2020 (Sun) 23:27:02 No. 221207 [Reply] [Last]
>Be a communist worker You don't know anything about economics! You've never run a company plus your own stuff what a hypocrite! >Be a communist capitalist/petty bourgeois What a hypocrite! You own a company and exploit workers! Move to North Korea! >Be a communist NEET You've never even had a job so how can you speak for the proletariat! Plus you've never run a company so you don't know anything about economics! Is there any way to win the lifestylist game?
12 posts omitted.
>>221207 It's very simple. You ask them why they're still poor under capitalism.
>>221207 >You own a company and exploit workers! Call them a poorfag, nothing hurts more than truth. >You've never even had a job so how can you speak for the proletariat! This is the truth, if you're a parasite your opinions don't matter, also you go into the gulag. >You've never run a company plus your own stuff what a hypocrite! Just call them porky, they can't argue against it kek.
>>221207 The people who make those tu quoque arguments are not honest actors.
>>221615 <but why are you still poor then ? >I'm not poor ! I still have a roof over my head and I can eat everyday,me being poor is just your opinion.
>>221848 Just keep calling them poor.

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The Left in Spain Anonymous 01/14/2020 (Tue) 09:03:42 No. 212618 [Reply] [Last]
>As Spain’s new government was sworn into office on Monday, January 12, national media spoke of a major political realignment. The country’s most-read daily, El País, called the coalition between the center-left Socialist Party (PSOE) and Pablo Iglesias’s Unidas Podemos as “the first progressive coalition” in “the current democratic period.” More than that, it is the first such government of the Left since the Popular Front was overthrown by Francisco Franco in the Civil War of 1936–39. >The new cabinet includes several figures who seek to reclaim that government’s anti-fascist legacy, from Iglesias to sociologist Manuel Castells. But perhaps most striking is the case of Alberto Garzón, today sworn in by King Felipe VI as Spain’s first communist minister in eighty years. Leader of the United Left — an umbrella group which includes the Spanish Communist Party (PCE), of which he is a member — Garzón has been a key player in Unidas Podemos’ drive to enter government over the last three years. He is joined in government by Yolanda Diaz, a labor-rights lawyer and veteran activist of the Galician Communist Party who is now Labor Minister. https://jacobinmag.com/2020/1/spain-communist-party-minister-alberto-garzon Any Spanish anons who can tell us what this means for leftism and the socialist project in Spain?
58 posts and 4 images omitted.
>>212618 so, how do we start a youtube channel to combat all the ancaps poisoning the minds of the spanish youth?
>>219041 >they ought to destroy. You can see that with Momentum in the labour party Oh please Momentum wasn’t hardcore to begin but was instrumental in radicalizing Labour and. All but one candidate seems to fundamentally oppose Corbynism
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>>220897 Muy interesante camarada, pero tengo curiosidad, ¿que tal esta el PCTE ahora mismo? ¿Cuál crees tu que debería ser la estrategia en cuanto a conseguir mas miembros y relevancia en el clima político actual? >>221050 have some more cursed pics
>>222277 >¿que tal esta el PCTE ahora mismo? En muy buenas condiciones, la verdad. Desde la purga de hace dos años en la que se expulsó al ex-secretario general y al resto de miembros liquidacionistas, el partido se reforzó ideológica y organizativamente. Conseguimos una estructura mucho mas cohesionada, aunqeu ligeramente mas pequeña y una claridad de objetivos y de estrategia mucho mayor, sacando de la organización a elementos que pretendiar dinamitar la unidad del partido y reabrir debates ya cerrados, cuestionando decisiones tomadas de manera colectiva y central. Después de todo aquello, y ya hablando en presente, estamos creciendo en muchos puntos de España, aumentando militancia, presencia en luchas obreras y conflictos sociales; llevando nuestra propuesta política. >¿Cuál crees tu que debería ser la estrategia en cuanto a conseguir mas miembros y relevancia en el clima político actual? El aumento de miembros y la estrategia para conseguir mayor relevancia, en cierta manera van de la mano. El aumento cuantitativo de militantes se consigue con intervención decidida y seria en aquellos frentes de lucha mas susceptibles a nuestras propuestas organizativas, como pueden ser conflictos laborales en marcha o el movimiento estudiantil. En estos dos campos hemos tenido bastante exito, llevando nuestro mensaje a aquellas luchas ya en marcha, mostrando apoyo y estando al lado de los trabajadores en sus luchas. Hemos conseguido la entrada de nuevos militantes que vienen de esas luchas, como en Amazon o en el metro de Madrid, por decirte dos ejemplos relevantes. Han sido gente que ha visto de primera mano lo que significa el compromiso comunista con el movimiento obrero y qeu se han dado cuenta de que somos los únicos que hemos estado codo con codo en piquetes, que se han preocupado de su situación. Para conseguir mayor relevancia la clave, en mi opinión, está en dos elementos. EL primero seria hacernos tan grandes y estar en tantas luchas importantes que los medios tengan que hacernos caso si o si, por que seremos los interlocutores mas válidos. La segunda via, que funcionaria paralela y de manera "simbiótica", seria la de crear un medio de comunicación ligado a la estructura del partido, que transmitiera su posición y que para ello utilizara las mejores técnicas de comunicación. Es, basicamente, adaptar al siglo XXI lo que dijo Lenin de "el periódico como organizador central". Obviamente no seria solo periódico, sino también radio, televisión...

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>>222486 Creo que las sugerencias que hace se hacen aquí >>126583 son muy buenas. El partido comunista tendría que encargarse de organizar sindicatos y cooperativas para conseguir beneficios materiales para muchas comunidades, consiguiendo así apoyo local y vecinal, y solo entrarían en el electoralismo cuando tuvieran una base lo suficientemente grande. Y esto solo se realizaría con el objetivo de extender aun más su mensaje y, en ultima instancia, tomar el poder político total a través de una lucha armada. Aunque reconozco que muchas propuestas del post no se ajustan a las condiciones de España. Por ejemplo, no hay acceso a armas de fuego.

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Freud Anonymous 11/18/2019 (Mon) 00:38:21 No. 130647 [Reply] [Last]
>After much weaseling in “Dreams and Telepathy,” Freud blurted out his conviction that “sleep creates favourable conditions for telepathy”—a point that he repeated in “Dreams and Occultism.”[58] For Freud, not even the inaccuracy of a dream prophecy disqualified it from being deemed telepathic. His inclination was to believe that a given dream, bearing only an approximate resemblance to an event elsewhere, must have been obliquely prophetic. “We must admit,” he wrote in one instance, “that it is only the interpretation of the dream that has shown us that it was a telepathic one: psycho-analysis has revealed a telepathic event which we should not otherwise have discovered.”[59] A scientist wielding Occam’s razor would have proceeded in the opposite spirit, judging, à la Hume, that a rough correspondence between dream and reality is far too weak to warrant belief in the miracle of telepathic transmission.
>The miraculous, however, had become everyday reality for Freud, and not always to the benefit of his equanimity. He felt himself to be almost literally pursued by bad fortune, and he engaged in propitiatory acts to ward it off. Seized by existential fear, he was convinced that the fates had determined just when he was going to die. When the appointed year, at age fifty-one, left him still breathing, he didn’t decide that he could now think about himself more objectively; he rejuggled the magic formula and arrived at a new terminus: sixty-one. Meanwhile, telephone numbers and the numbers of hotel rooms held frightening messages for him.[60]
58  The Standard Edition of the Complete Psychological Works of Sigmund Freud, 18:219; 22:37.
59  Standard Edition, 22:38; emphasis as found.
60  4/16/09; The Freud/Jung Letters 1974, pp. 218–220.
🤤Who else is a Freudo-Marxist here🤤
128 posts and 17 images omitted.
>>219860 >A counter-argument could be that since we are bad at multitasking consciously means that trough evolution a part of the brain that is doing extra tasks for us is doing it on an unconscious level. No. This does not work as a counter-argument. The original statement you reply to wasn't that we are bad at multitasking consciously. We are bad at multitasking full stop. And the original statement you reply to also wasn't that the brain does some things without one being conscious of that, but specifically that there is nothing in our actual behavior that would suggest unconscious processes as semi-character(s). Recall how Freud described the "Dora" case, upthread: >>130726 and his sessions with Csonka >>134113 In both cases, he assumed unconscious parts of his patients reacting to his investigations, moving around and trying to hide from him and to fake him out – and doing all of that of course in addition to also being on the run from and throwing fake news at the patient's own attempts at self-reflection.
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>>220060 I just think that many human phenomena can only be explained using this psychological abstraction. The way that we humans seem to automatically perceive information (symbols) and then having some kind of meaning to us suggests that our reality is built on this symbols. Unless this is our first time interacting with this image (before symbolisation) we seem to have an almost gut feeling reaction to this symbol, we don't always choose what to consciously feel unless we try to change what those symbols mean to us. I think it is impossible for us humans to view reality without a distorted view, this distortion is product of how our symbolic order is built. For example, how often it happened to you that somebody with a thick accent said something and you interpreted it in a very different way. Basically you are presented with information (vibrations of air) that you then attach symbolic meaning to, since this information is not clear to you the meaning that you attach is a projection of your symbolic order (this is what I mean by distortion). In my personal experience in this cases where I am not sure what the person is saying I seem to almost always attach a meaning using words that I like to use (words that seem to define my symbolic reality the most). All of this is also related to Freudian slips, basically two words that sound kinda the same but also have a symbolic link in some cases. For example, my bougie friend once used the word steal instead of sue. Now the difference in this words is quiet big for it to be product of faulty slurring, which is why I believe that it may reveal the inner symbolic processes of the brain. The line of thought that I used here is borrowed from Lacan, a psychoanalyst that I admire much more than Freud. In his writing the unconscious is something that accompanies the conscious, whereas Freud seemed to believe that the unconscious was a whole new world that lived separately with little connection to the conscious. While Lacans ideas are as much speculation as Freuds, I still think that they are much more fun to play around. I mean we would not get Zizek if it was not for Lacan. Either way what exactly do you mean when you say "semi-character(s)?
>>220462 >I think it is impossible for us humans to view reality without a distorted view Nobody is claiming otherwise, the disagreements are about the strength of these effects and how to reduce them. >this distortion is product of how our symbolic order is built Well, languages differ in their requirements for precision regarding this or that; in some languages you have to be more explicit about the sex of people, in others the age etc. This nudges your focus a bit. But I reject the belief in an extreme power of language that some people (with careers in producing texts) seem to have. Multilingual people don't fundamentally change personality and whom they feel in love with and so on when they switch language. >Freudian slips Is what you are thinking of really a Freudian slip? That people can slip into saying things that they were consciously thinking but didn't intent to say out loud is a common belief preceding Freud by centuries. As such you can't use an example of that to score a point for Team Freud. Freud's claim was about slips of the tongue revealing unconscious processes. >Either way what exactly do you mean when you say "semi-character(s)? Talking about unconscious processes with a complexity to them like they were highly elaborated characters in a huge novel.
Taking Freud seriously doesn't mean agreeing with him. He was a thoroughly bourgeois thinker and any Marxist should approach him critically, as with anything. This doesn't mean he is "debunked"; Hegel was a thoroughly bourgeois thinker as well, yet his work is still relevant when passed through the standpoint of communism. There's no need to accept his weird mysticism, or his encroaching justifications for psychoanalysis tout-court which went beyond the bounds of his actual findings. That's why most Marxists who consider psychoanalysis important look rather at Lacan, who systematized what in Freud was scattershot and passed it through a critical lens (again though, it doesn't mean Lacan was writing from the standpoint of communism). Not approaching the psyche critically and scientifically can lead you to garbage like sociobiology (biologicism, another of Freud's random thoughts to give a bourgeois veneer of legitimacy to his work), behaviorism, evo-psych (the worst one by far), or on the other side of the spectrum, stupid bullshit like Lenin's talk about "the common sense elementary rules of human interaction that will come to dominate when we achieve communism".
>>221837 >his actual findings Tell me what those are, oh wise one. Tell me what is in Freud that is both new and true. >garbage like (…) behaviorism Good luck getting rid of compulsive hand-washing with psychoanalysis.

DA HOLOBUNGA Anonymous 01/18/2020 (Sat) 22:18:19 No. 219411 [Reply] [Last]
How can I educate myself on the holocaust as a communist? I find that more often than not the conversation surrounding it is dominated mostly by screeching /pol/tards and less than honest liberals, and it makes the truth harder to find. No fascist lies or liberal exaggerations, please. THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED, AND IT WAS JUST AS BAD AS PEOPLE SAY IT WAS, THIS BOARD IS NOT A FREE-FOR-ALL. FURTHER DENIALISM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. regards, the mod team
Edited last time by caballo on 01/20/2020 (Mon) 17:32:24.
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>>220839 Dude, last year alone there have been several Nazis and /pol/yps trying to shot up synagogues. I guess you really don't divide the working class by telling Jews that the Nazis trying to kill them aren't real and their concerns are IdPol.
>>221614 The point is the 6 million Jews weren't the only people killed in the camps. In fact more non-Jews were killed than Jews.
There is a literal mountain of Soviet archives on the subject of German war crimes in WW2. The trial transcripts of the Soviet Judges at the Nuremberg trials would be of particular interest to you.
>>219440 Her dad withheld parts and added page numbers and an addendum in ballpoint pen, but I think a complete version was released
>>219512 I want to read Anne Frank about her masturbating

Bernie Sanders Anonymous 01/12/2020 (Sun) 20:02:26 No. 210321 [Reply] [Last]
Does he stand a chance at: 1. Securing the DNC nomination? 2. Defeating Trump in the general? 3. Enacting M4A? GND? 4. Transforming the country?
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>>213888 >Why is it you think the Greens are so bad exactly? >hippie >anti-science >anti-anything synthetic >want to halt R&D >anti-nuclear >idealist
>>213913 >hippie Media smear, the hippies are a small minority these days. >anti-science Media smear. >anti-anything synthetic Point taken, GMO hysteria is a thing in the Democratic Party as well though. >want to halt R&D u wot? >anti-nuclear Fairest of all your points, molten salt thorium technology should be embraced. But again, more of a widespread phenomenon on the left in America than exclusive to the Greens. >idealist

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>>210321 He could probably do all of those besides 4, because a Bernie presidency would just be "soc"dem capitalism that dissolves class consciousness by feigning progress. Here's hoping a second Trump term can start a revolution, otherwise we'll be stuck with more neoliberalism.
>>210719 You fall into the trap of seeing in poverty nothing but poverty. There is a conflation between "the organized working class" and the working class as such, which is bogus, because it presupposes that the significance of the working class to communism has to do with any sort of positive characteristics (some passages from Marx can be taken in this vein, those about the discipline imposed by bourgeois labor enforcers, etc.), rather than, as Marx correctly recognized, with their negative and universal significance as the universal negation of private property itself. The former leads to the conclusion that the organization of the working classes in the periods in which the labor movement was strongest owed itself to external, purely material processes that were ready-made and organized the workers on their own behalf (i.e. the fetish of industrialism and the factory floor). The working class in itself is bigger than ever, even in the so-called "service economies", even when most of the actual proletariat live as a sort of precariat and barely identify themselves as workers rather than any other identities; it is simply the form that has changed, but not the essentially constitutive negative element of being propertyless, of having nothing to lose: thus what has to change is the forms of organization, in accord with this. Attempting to locate the old forms of struggle in the current world will inevitable yield "blackpills", and this is nothing more than a form of ruling ideology disguised with leftist rhetoric, it is precisely what produces in consciousness the apathy that stands in the way of ACTUAL organizing and the ACTUAL transformation of the world as it exists. Sanders has nothing to do with socialism as we understand it, and the significance of Sanders (or rather what he generates in the American populace in 2016 and now) is not in the promise of passing any of his policies per-se, nor in any sort of pretense that his maximum program is of relevance. It is precisely in fighting these forms of apathy, these notions of "it's all over anyway", "we can't do anything", "we can't organize"; the lack of a definite class character to the populist fervor that Sanders brings is not a deathblow to progress on communist lines, but owes itself to the concrete conditions that exist currently in society. Communists should see this situation, this newly emerging "thing" across the world as a calling, because as it stands it can go either way. And we already know what way it will go if we just stand around saying "not socialism, no social base, no organizing, stop trying", as if history was its own subject over and above all of us, and our practical activity didn't completely constitute it in every way.
>>221599 I don't see the "lack of a social base" argument as a defeatist do-nothing statement, but rather an important critique of the present moment. Every mainstream 'left' tendency seems hell-bent on reconstituting the old forms of unions, social-democratic parties, etc. without appreciating why those forms are strategic dead-ends, and not acknowledging the widening gap (which Marx and many others recognized) between the working class and the existing institutions and structures of the political state. There needs to be a deeper movement to independently organize the working class, but that's an immensely difficult proposition and most 'leftists' aren't thinking about such a thing because electoralism and issue-based political activism are sucking all the air out of the metaphorical discussion room.

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