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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion.

IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan
https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=bunkerchan

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Rules - Moderation Feedback - The New Manifesto Anonymous Board volunteer 02/12/2020 (Wed) 16:34:48 No. 274282 [Reply] [Last]
🚨🚨🚨 This month's >>>/roulette/ is /tech/! 🚨🚨🚨 REMINDER TO VISIT >>>/hobby/ Hello, this is the new iteration of the moderation topic. The manifesto has been updated and the new version is attached to this post, please feel free to read it. We welcome user feedback, but we will be keeping the discussion in this thread on topic as the last one was too chaotic to be useful for its intended purpose. Please enjoy /leftypol/ and the rest of /bunkerchan/. /leftypol/ rules: In general, the rules are enforced to provide an entertaining and edifying space for all posters to enjoy, and should serve to keep the board easily usable and free from spam and on topic, with discussion productive and open. In addition, content which is illegal in the United States will be removed. No spam is to be tolerated. Spam from a bot is subject to a permanent ban or more severe actions to preserve site security. Spam from a user may also be subject to a ban, the severity of which depends on the situation and is at the discretion of the volunteers. ABSOLUTELY NO CP SHALL BE POSTED ON THE SITE. Anyone posting child pornography will immediately face a permanent ban and their IP will be logged and recorded in the event of a police crackdown for the preservation of the site. Content which ‘doxxes’ another user or person will also be removed. Other content which promotes or endorses illegal activity may be removed as the discretion of the moderators. Pornography should not be posted on /leftypol/, /gulag/, or /roulette/. In addition, images which are excessively offensive to the eye or to civilised sensibilities may be removed without warning (for example, gore) and punished with moderator action. Posts should, overall, be conducive to an informed and productive discussion Bunkerchan is not an academic journal, but it is also not a cesspit of back and forth bickering and pointless insults. Users should attempt to argue for the point they are presenting in an honest and open way and should be receptive to information or arguments that do, in fact, challenge their views. Reaction and liberalism, or any other kind of non-leftist positions are not banned per se, as we will endeavour to allow and encourage people of other political philosophies to explore leftism through Bunkerchan so long as they follow the rules contained herein.

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>>292839 Wrong there was a specific post that said “fuck off with your black panther party bullshit” after they said “frankly, they are idpol” it was only later that the walk back happened with the “oh I was just saying they were captured by the liberal media” or whatever.
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Growing real tired of your bullshit, sage You just can't seem to stop posting here without constantly framing the whole conversation as you vs us and shitting up the board in general.
theres some anglo-nazbol tard shitting up the /eirepol/ thread hijacking every convo to sperg out about "progressive idpol pro EU shitlibs fixated on abortion,fag marriage,trans rights and triggering proddies" and using lefty-sounding language to excuse imperialism and racist idpol. >>292874 >>292882 >>292891 jannies do smth plox
what's with all the anarchist sperging about ML lately? I'm all for criticism but "stalin was evil!!!" and "death to tankies!!!" is some retarded shit
>>292780 there is literally no nuance to this endless fucking whining

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For New Anons and Lurkers: FAQ, rules, and reading list Comrade 08/05/2019 (Mon) 07:32:55 No. 8537 [Reply] [Last]
Guide for new Anons: https://bunkerchan.xyz/.media/72a78f39a9a53439bf2bdc6aeb272f7e-imagepng.png Groups: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/leftypol http://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=leftypol Leftybooru: http://lefty.booru.org/ FAQ: >How can you call yourselves leftist politically incorrect? /leftypol/ posters are allowed to voice opinions that offend liberals, SJWs, and so on. All sects on the left are allowed to post on /leftypol/, leading to plenty of fighting and shitflinging between leftists, which other forums might ban. However, this was only a minor consideration in the naming of /leftypol/. Since the concept is simply a leftist version of /pol/, the entire name of /pol/ was retained. >I'm not a leftist can I post here? Non-leftists can come here to ask questions. Board moderation here is more focused on maintaining a good board index, so non-leftists have to be on better behavior as OP than they do as participants in someone else's thread. If you aren't b8ing or shitposting, your thread is likely to stay up.

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Edited last time by comraderat on 01/27/2020 (Mon) 11:54:13.
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>>288914 He's got some pretty hot takes on the Soviet Union, but as a student of Roman history I really enjoyed this one.
Repost: Telling people to " read capital " is retarded, most of you who say it haven't even read capital yourself. Here is a collection of lectures of interviews that I have found to be the most helpful and the best resources for radicalizing and educating. <IMPERIALISM: >Michael Parenti: Globalization, the "New" Imperialism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnhYOvPvNEQ[Embed] >Michael Hudson: Resisting Empire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xluStDQp9yE[Embed] >The Face of Imperialism-Michael Parenti- part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKhRE61VE0E[Embed] >History is Marching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S-CwVJxxug[Embed]

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I found a book that's a companion to chapter 1 of Capital. It's called Reading Capital Politically by Harry Cleaver The introduction basically says everyone is a revisionist except me, which I believe to some degree. It also has an interesting critique about Critical Theory and theorists. Anyways, my question is, is it any good?
A State Adequate to the Task - Conversations with Lao Xie Interview with dedicated Maoists in China about the state of the Chinese (and global) left.
From Marx to Goldman Sachs The Fictions of Fictitious Capital - Article by Micheal Hudson

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United States Politics /usapol/ 02/20/2020 (Thu) 01:38:19 No. 286651 [Reply] [Last]
WATCH THE STREAM HERE https://www.msnbc.com/ https://www.twitch.tv/central_committee https://nbcnews-lh.akamaihd.net/i/nbc_[email protected]/master.m3u8 Debate theme: https://soundcloud.com/noah_plunderphonics/bloombergtypebeat Debate tonight: >6 - 8 pm PST >7 - 9 pm MST >8 - 10 pm CST >9 - 11 pm EST Upcoming Primaries >Feb 3 - Iowa - DONE

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>>293362 warren's reputation being dragged through the mud >>293365 yeah right
>>293355 >I don’t want to live in a communist country to bad, you will be sent to the Colorado Gulag to build nationwide high speed rail
Not gonna lie: Bernie almost makes me trust SocDems
>>293358 why are you falling for this lazy bait

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/QTDDTOT/ II Anonymous 12/08/2019 (Sun) 06:08:17 No. 151832 [Reply] [Last]
Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread.
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>>290295 100% yes. But you shouldn't be too worried about being a consoomer to be "a good communist" or some lifestylist shit. You're also a consoomer when you buy stuff you "need". You can't not be a consoomer, that's literally the point of capitalism. >It must be understood that the class struggle is over the way the capitalist class imposes the commodity-form on the bulk of the population by forcing people to sell part of their lives as the commodity labour-power in order to survive and gain some access to social wealth. t. Reading Capital Politically
Legalize cannabis and proprietarians will disappear as a political movement.
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Why are there still ML? It's not like it managed to achieve what it set out to do, and their self-critiques are silly: "muh cornman"
Why are liberals always so smug?
Hey, is Zizek's 'The Pervert's Guide to Ideology' series any good? If so, is it uploaded on YT or downloadable from somewhere?

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Anonymous 02/22/2020 (Sat) 03:07:12 No. 291876 [Reply] [Last]
ITT we say something nice about ML The government does in fact do a lot of stuff under ML
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Anarchist discord trannies are still going I guess
>>292237 Forgot the key one here that literally no other leftist tendency managed >They destroyed their bourgeois and defeated the counterrevolution
>>292476 Fucking mad lmao
>>293286 I would tell you to kys but there's already a 41% chance you'd do it without me telling you
>>293306 Commodity production

Putting infantile critiques of Marxism-Leninism to bed Anonymous 02/19/2020 (Wed) 20:57:58 No. 286051 [Reply] [Last]
Let's clean up some misconceptions ultraleftists have about Marxism-Leninism. >bureaucracy A bureaucrat is not the same as a capitalist as the relationship to the means of production is proprietary. A bureaucrat can not decide that a factory must produce fidget spinners instead of steel ingots because producing consumer products is more profitable. >exploitation Exploitation in the Marxist sense is the rate of surplus-value extraction, e.g. the difference between the reproduction cost of variable capital (labor-power commodified) and the exchange-value of the commodity or service produced. With labor not being subject to commodification in socialism, there can also be no surplus-value. >so what is surplus-value? The social (historical) form the surplus product takes on in capitalism. Modes of production are defined by the social form of surplus-extraction, in socialism, surplus still exists in material form, which was accounted for in socialist states through the Material Product System. Therefore, the proletarian condition of producing surplus-value is abolished. >value Marx says in Capital III that value as a metric for book-keeping will remain: <Secondly, after the abolition of the capitalist mode of production, but still retaining social production, the determination of value continues to prevail in the sense that the regulation of labour-time and the distribution of social labour among the various production groups, ultimately the book-keeping encompassing all this, become more essential than ever. This makes sense because as Marx says in the CotGP, labor-time as a metric will also regulate production in the lower phase of communism, the difference is that there is no social exchange (not the same as physical exchanges, like, exchanging tools in a factory) between producers, whereas the exchange-value emerges as the social form of labor-value (usually referred to when Marx says "value") which is not the same thing. Exchange-value is materialized of abstract labor, which is imbued in the commodity that takes on this form once it becomes social, e.g. enters the market. >dictatorship of the proletariat but isn't socialism classles?!

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>>293047 So surplus happens in every society and surplus-value happens under capitalism. That is what I believed the difference was but it does not seem like a huge difference. I mentioned that the state would be capable of appropriating surplus value of workers if it hired/fired workers to produce commodities. Of course the workers were not hired but assigned according to a plan as pointed out here >>292610. I don't see how a worker being assigned by a state official rather than hired by a capitalist to make a certain product is that big of a difference to then say the worker is not being exploited if he is assigned rather than hired. This is without mentioning the time Stalin let Ford build in the USSR. Would that be an instance of the soviet state being complicit in creating and allocating surplus value?
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>>293077 >There is a difference between being forced to work at gun point, being forced to work due to basic necessities making labor power a commodity Pic related. Nature is capitalist now because it forces you to hunt down game to eat. >Like, you're dumb as fuck because even in Catalonia, the Anarchists did not force people to work, people voluntarily joined the collectives, communes and did work because things needed to be produced. This is objectively not true, CNT-FAI had work quotas everybody needed to fulfil and had an armed police that made sure they did. Again, there is no such thing as "free lunch" - if you want to withdraw from the means of consumption, you need to contribute equivalencies, unless you are disabled, old, a child, sick or whatever. >Commodity Production existed in the USSR in the form of wage labor as a commodity Where were workers hired and fired? >private property was not abolished Where did a private entity own means of production? >Firms operated on a profit motive. Again, I'm tired of repeating myself, profit wasn't based on the extraction of surplus-value, and profits weren't invested into capital, it was just a cost-accounting method as the law of value, as Marx states, does persist in the sense that labor-values regulate production and distribution. >and production was not based on consumption, but increasing geo-metric growth. An industrial society is the precondition for increased consumption, this is again, a very basic point in Marxism, unless you are a primitivist. >>293087 Yup, relations between public enterprises in socialism do not constitute social exchange, as such, goods exchanged within the public sector do not appear to us as commodities in substance (like when a worker echanges a hammer for a gear within one enterprise, before their labor becomes social). I think Kim il-Sung wrote a good account on this in his collected works on page 388 - 394: http://www.bannedthought.net/Korea-DPRK/KimIlSung/KimIlSung-Works-23-OCR.pdf
>>293149 >That is what I believed the difference was but it does not seem like a huge difference. The social form of surplus extraction is literally one of the main characteristics within historical materialism of how you define a mode or production in an historical era. The formal and absolute subordination of labor under capital is based on it in the transition from post-feudalism to capitalism. >This is without mentioning the time Stalin let Ford build in the USSR. Would that be an instance of the soviet state being complicit in creating and allocating surplus value? Probably, albeit distorted. >I don't see how a worker being assigned by a state official rather than hired by a capitalist to make a certain product is that big of a difference to then say the worker is not being exploited if he is assigned rather than hired. Nobody was assigned on command, you went to a job training or education within a poly-technical education system, and then you got a list of option where your abilities are needed for which you then applied.
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>defending the bureaucrats
>>293215 I know that the form in which he surplus is extracted defines how the mode of production is in part. But if the workers are not appropriating their own surplus. I don't see how removing porky means no exploitation, but rather is just exploitation by someone else. That's one of the main issues I have I suppose. As for the job training and educational programs I'm skeptical that those were free and useful programs seeing as things like worker participation were heavily controlled.

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Anonymous 02/22/2020 (Sat) 08:30:29 No. 292130 [Reply] [Last]
Why should the left be pro-abortion? What makes killing the life of a fetus different than america bombing brown kids in yemen?
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>OMG HOW CAN YOU SUPPORT ABORTION??? YOU'RE LITERALLY MURDERING PRECIOUS LIFE GIVEN TO US BY GOD HIMSELF!!!
>>293314 I mean, eating the fetus after abortion would create extra utility...
>>292145 kill me in my sleep then
>>293327 (other anon) you still have the consciousness,you just cant use it at that moment,fetuses can get consciousness but dont have it
>>293343 i mean you could use a machine to turn rocks into people,doesn't mean its wrong to destroy rocks,same with fetuses

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/ruspol/ - Russian Politics Anonymous 02/17/2020 (Mon) 15:44:55 No. 282792 [Reply] [Last]
Hello from Russia, ask your questions
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>>291726 There's a huge cultural divide. It's just that rural Russia has no money, no power, no anything so you never hear about it. Cities dominate everything. Moscow is by far the richest and life there is very different from the rest of Russia. Under that you have St.Petersburg and a few other large cities with decent living standards like Kazan (my home city). All the youth is moving into Moscow or these large cities because there are no decent jobs or opportunity anywhere else. There are countless small dying cities with shrinking populations. Then there are even less populated places like poseloks, derevnyas, selos etc. most of them are shrinking too but it really depends on the particular place and culture. In small communities life is very traditional with basically no modern technology, many places don't even have electricity. Government doesn't give a shit about building infrastructure in remote parts of Russia unless it's to extract natural resources. If you think this sounds like burgerstan you are mistaken. The differences are much more extreme in Russia and the kind of tug-and-pull between rural, urban, and suburban doesn't exist. The best way to describe it is centralization and nodes, if you you're not in one of the big nodes you basically don't exist. And yet the top wealthiest cities are still nowhere close to US level of wealth. Even Moscow is more like Mexico City than NYC. Life in Russia is very shitty and the only dream is to leave and go somewhere else.
>>292676 A tragic fate for what should have been the cradle of a new world, sorry to hear that anon
>>292676 Why is the situation so bad in Russia? Do you think everything was better under the USSR?
>>293233 >Why is the situation so bad in Russia? Yeltsinist oligarchs figured out that just selling raw petrochemicals and importing Western consumer products is more profitable than actually trying to evenly develop the country. Hundreds of factories were privatized and sold for scrap because they were not profitable anymore, the porkies would then move into a handful of "financial centers" like Moscow or Petersburg, leaving behind nothing but desolation. The dispersed industry and supply chains that the USSR was trying to create for decades collapsed, entire towns built around specific industries disappeared. Now we have two, maybe 4-5 if we're being very generous, cities that have completely monopolized life in Russia while everyone else leads a pointless existence dreaming of moving to Moscow someday. >Do you think everything was better under the USSR? If you're an urbanite living in Moscow or St. Petersburg I guess modern Russia is "better" due to all those commodities and entertainments you can consoom, but in nearly every metric that actually matters like healthcare, education or social welfare the USSR was better or would at least have definitely outpaced RusFed by 2020
>>293283 >in nearly every metric that actually matters like healthcare, education or social welfare the USSR was better or would at least have definitely outpaced RusFed by 2020 Really sad that the USSR ended up collapsing. I'm sure it had its own internal problems, but overall it gave the population really good living standards. I hope Russia manages to get better at the end.

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Anonymous 02/12/2020 (Wed) 02:50:29 No. 272581 [Reply] [Last]
How can we expand on the wagecuck meme? it's one of the most powerful memes to wake people up about porky abuses
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Have you considered the nazcuck meme? very powerful
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Quantum Fuckery Anonymous 02/22/2020 (Sat) 20:30:36 No. 293061 [Reply] [Last]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM >How will materialists ever recover?
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>>293061 when i heard of quantum mechanics for the first time i thought the same thing,thats why i also simply dont believe in it,its a matter of time until it get disproved by the scientific community
This is why I'm a post-post evolian leftist naturalist idealist thought with neo-hegelian characteristics
You're all falling for the idealist/mysticist/religious interpretation of quantum phenomena that is a stable income on Anglo youtube due to homeschooling and the disproportionate christian demographic among the rural poor. >Pilot Wave Theory and Quantum Realism | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlXdsyctD50
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didn't know Michio Kaku was part of the quantum woo woo gang We kinda have to work on a materialist conception of consciousness, if actual scientists are starting make claims like "cosmic consciousness" Has anybody read the Book: Daniel Daniel Dennett Consciousness explained it's on Cockshott's materialism reading list.
>>293061 >materialism: all that exists was matter and energy and the rearrangements of it literally not materialism, relations of productions are not by any defition "matter and energy", all material things are not neccesarily directly physical >particles' states being dependant on observation means conciousness determines reality observation or measurement don't really rely on human conciousness. For instance, an electron would colapse its wave function when measured or 'observed' regardless of any human present, or if the measurement device is human made, and presumably they do so in nature all the time, when electrons self interact without the aid of man. Therefore, reality independent of the observer might not exist, but that doesn't mean that such observer needs to be a subject in the hegelian sense, nor is matter a part of the absolute spirit. On the contrary, 'observing' is just a property of the object in itself, when it self interacts, not a property of the interaction of conciousness with matter, through which subject determines object like this video argues. Thus, man has no participation in observation, he merely sets it up to happen between particles of his choosing sometimes, like the cattle farmer who sets a cow and a bull to mate to produce a calf, the act itself is not a product of man, it was already there for him to take advantage of i'm not even half way through the video i'll bet my copy of capital, he is going to say that Einstein didn't belive in quantum mechanics because he was a communist <he doesn't do that well i tried bumping this thread because it has the oportunity to be a good thread dedicated to disputing this shit

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