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/trek/ Anonymous Comrade 01/24/2020 (Fri) 01:40:32 No. 5635
<Star Trek Picard S01E01 is out (check torrents) >general Favourite episodes, best characters, memorable moments, etc.
what the fuck is this series about, picard coming back as like an 80 year old guy to captain a starship again? this is as embaressing as making Sylvester stallone do another rocky at 65.
>>5636 Better than STD.
Dude I have been wanting to get into startreck forever, but, I don't know were to start. Can anyone help me out? I wanted to start with the first actual rendition of the show but I don't even know what it is called to look it up. Can anyone help me?
>>5639 the original show is called "TOS" or "The original series" on torrent sites just type star trek tos its a bit cheesy but a good background. I liked the next generation better personally. if you cant into TOS then watch star trek: the next generation. it was made in the 80s/early 90s and is probably the best series IMO. and it will prepare you for picard. see: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls022123905/
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>>5639 I don't suggest you start with the original Star Trek, it's really low budget and the captain is a womanizing caricature TBH. Watch Next Generation and Voyager. Link (backtrack to the index of seasons and episodes): https://watch-series.cx/episode/star-trek-the-next-generation-season-6-episode-12/ >>5635 Like >>5636 said it sounds pretty stupid. Picard is a great captain but it isn't worth bringing back a decrepit old man to struggle into a nostalgia series like this. I personally found Seth McFarlane's The Orville to be a much better modern "Star-Trek" It's easy to watch on watch-series has relatively good humor and interesting takes as well as good special effects. It was a breath of fresh air after STD. >>5637 >STD Even JewJew Abrams' movies were better than STD (what an appropriate abbreviation).
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>STD For those who don't know what that stands for (other than Sexually Transmitted Disease) its the Abbreviation for Star Trek Discovery, which aired from 2017-now. Why is it trash? Because unlike the other Star Treks which focused on a main cast of crew-members to whom we could grow to love or hate and who interacted normally, STD instead has 1 main character that encapsulates liberal idpol; african-american girl who-don't-need-no-man. Her behavior in the pilot alone is nauseatingly irresponsible and idiotic, which in the context of her backstory is illogical. They only talk about emotions (yet do't really adequately show them or have it affect things other than idiotic behaviour). The dialogues are badly written. There’s no fun and no sense of adventure or exploration in the show. Gays, lesbians, muh stoopid white men, muh stoopid protocols, muh lesbian OCs. Its like a bad Mary Sue fanfiction. In the prior series lesbians, gays, people of different races were integrated without question, because it was the future and such things were irrelevant to people as a whole, when self-betterment and space DISCOVERY was more important. Oh and they praise Elon Musk and capitalism (when prior shows intentionally went against this). I'd go on but frankly I'm tired and this is more of a rant than a proper review. I might do a arc-by arc review of the show as future reference for newfags.
>>5643 >Oh and they praise Elon Musk and capitalism to be fair, that was in the dark mirror universe
>>5639 >Dude I have been wanting to get into startreck forever, but, I don't know were to start. Can anyone help me out? Yes. First off, the abbreviations. Star Trek: The Original Series >TOS Captain Kirk, original show Star Trek: The Animated Series >TAS Captain Kirk, cartoon rendition of TOS <not actually canon (decanonised) Movies: I, II, III, IV, V and VI (cast of TOS, Kirk, Spock, etc.) Star Trek: The Next Generation >TNG Captain Picard, first live action show after TOS Movies: VII, VIII, IX, X (cast of TNG, Picard, Riker, etc.) Star Trek: Deep Space 9 >DS9 Captain Sisko, starts during penultimate season of TNG Star Trek: Voyager >VOY Captain Janeway, starts during last season of DS9 Star Trek: Enterprise >ENT Captain Archer, prequel filmed long after VOY was done Movies: 3 JJ Abrams Trek movies (not canon) The third one feels the most "trek". They're not bad sci-fi adventure/action movies, they're terrible Star Trek movies. Star Trek: Discovery >STD Captain uhh... Georgia? And then the guy. But captains don't matter, it's all about Michael. Suggested order of watching: TNG - DS9 - VOY - ENT - TOS >alternative: watch TOS after VOY, before ENT The TNG movies you can watch after you've seen DS9, and the TOS movies you can watch after you see TOS. You can also watch TAS for fun. STD is not mandatory because it is not canon, or part of the prime universe. Prime universe is the main storyline of the universe. Events of TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT (as well as the ten TNG+TOS movies) all take place in the same universe and events are often referenced in the shows. First season of TNG is gonna be a bit cringe, but they were just figuring it out. It gets better from half-way into the season then just continues improving. Watch an episode or two of TOS before TNG so that you can appreciate how different it is. Movies are very different from the show. The TNG movies are dumbed down action films for a mass audience, but it's cool seeing Picard kicking ass while espousing communist ideals (First Contact). Just don't expect too much from the movies. TOS movies range from decent to actually pretty good, except one. I'll let you find out which one, it's funny because it's spectacularly bad. To recap: <prime universe >canon ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, movies I - X >non-canon TAS <non-prime universe 3 JJ Abrams movies, STD
>>5637 That’s like saying herpes is better than aids. It’s true, but does it matter in anyway?
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>>5652 >cartoon rendition of TOS <not actually canon (decanonised) fucking sucks TBH., no we'll never see M'ress get into interspecies relations
>>5639 Okay so I'm not a Star Trek expert but a slightly-more-than-casual fan. Casual+ maybe. The way I got into it was starting with TNG (I think this is common) and just choosing the episodes that sounded fun. For me, this meant I watched my first Q episode and then decided to skip around and watch the episodes that had "Q" in the description. TNG doesn't really require continuity to enjoy so I would recommend you just pick the episodes that sound interesting to you and go from there. I watched Voyager next. Hated the first couple seasons so I just skipped to the third by chance, watched to the end, and then rewatched from the start (I wouldn't recommend this -- most people say it's among the weakest although I enjoyed it). I watched DS9 years later. Really wish I had done it sooner. DS9 is much more like a modern-day HQ TV series -- huge amount of continuity and overarching story so don't skip around on this one or expect to be able to casually watch while you do something else. If you're just looking for a way to get into the series without a big commitment, do the TNG thing I mentioned above. You don't really need to pay super close attention and there are enough campy/fun episodes that you can start to learn about the universe without a big commitment. But if you're looking for a solid series with real story, continuity, narrative etc then go straight for DS9. Not sure if this is helpful or just me blogposting. Either way I hope you have fun and enjoy it! The universe is definitely worth getting into.
Y'all what the fuck is this Picard show? I haven't watched anything Star Trek newer than Voyager but YouTube put an ad in front of my face for it. It..can't be good can it? What is going on? It looks like an excuse for a reunion/cash grab, is my assumption correct or is it too early to say just how bad it is?
>>5663 I watched it and didn't hate it. There's no trekking through the stars in pilot episode, but it seems we might get to that. Some of the premises are interesting so far, and I do want to see them develop. Way better than whatever the fuck STD is as of episode 1, but I can't help but feel dredging up ancient Patrick Stewart has only been done to get cash back after STD's abject failure. I was moderately entertained viewing it, so if you're willing to give it a watch, here you go: https://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5840121
>>5670 >dredging up ancient Patrick Stewart has only been done to get cash back after STD's abject failure. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm worried about. Although I didn't realize STD was that big of a failure. I was waiting to hear consensus before I tried watching any of it. The show was super early days when I was hearing from most people that it was trash but I heard a couple whispers of "we should give it a chance, people hated TNG at first too". I never bothered looking back into it. Sounds like it was a definitive failure then? At least glad to hear their second attempt isn't an immediate rubbish heap from episode 1? I'll give it a shot tonight, thanks for the link anon!
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>>5663 I watched it and thought "Trek is back". It is an engaging story that flows from an established event in a Star Trek episode. Wolf 359 was the catalyst for Sisko's character on DS9 and his tension with Picard, the Maquis from DS9 were the basis for Voyager, and Maddox/cybernetics from the TNG episode Measure of a Man is the start of Star Trek Picard. It's all part of the same universe and same events, the continuity is one of the things I love about Star Trek (and lack of it I hate in STD). Personally, I've always considered Measure of a Man to be one of Trek's best episodes. We explore what it is to be human and ask about extending that right to non-humans, like Data. What exactly are we? is a question that is still unanswered. I'm hoping STP explores it further, which it seems like they're doing. And there's a good explanation why Picard is coming back. Cybernetics/synthetics division of Daystrom institute has been all but closed down after synthetics were banned, therefore no one cares about them. If he doesn't do it, who will? He is also an admiral that quit starfleet (he wasn't discharged), so coming back is not unheard of. About Picard's age. Do you not remember Grand Nagus Zek? Or pic related? When have you ever gotten the impression that in Star Trek your age or a disability or a mutation can prevent you from doing things and achieving what you set out to do? Trek is back, enjoy it.
>>5635 They’re gonna milk it dry till Patrick Stewart is dead, aren’t they?
>>5677 >I watched it and thought "Trek is back". I don't know what you've watched. I've seen it and it's the most generic tv crap you could expect, and also capeshitty as well. Also the trek society is completely bourgeoise now.
>>5686 It's not though. Sure it may be "updated" and some things are put in it to capture a modern audience, but if you look at the elements that make Trek trek, they are in STP: many competent people deferring to one another, engaging story/plot, technobabble, people figuring stuff out, etc.
>>5654 TAS was considered during non-canon in the Roddenberry and Berman eras, but it is currently considered canon by Paramount and CBS. I personally like it being canon, if for no other reason than to complete the Five Year Mission. Plus, I like the show.
>>5685 With advances in CGI and virtual actors they don't even have to stop there, they have the rights to the distinctive look and sound of the character so they could use this technology to keep making new Picard TV shows and movies until the end of time.
So I've come around and watched the first episode of Picard. People praise the space sequence in the beginning, with all the colours, and frankly, I'm not a big fan of it. Space doesn't actually look like that but I'm willing to let that pass, rather, I miss the organic contrast of endless, black space with the white ship model (back from the days where they were handcrafted and not CHI). I feel like modern space operas tend to overload scenes with colours and can not help themselves but to use too much CGI. The Expanse did this much better. Anyway, into the episode. It's too early to say much about it because the episode didn't leave us with much information. I don't know why they decided to blow up Romulus, because JJ Abrams already did that in NuTrek, which is supposed to be a different timeline. It'll get people confused. Picard's interview was a pretty blatant nudge towards the refugee crisis and Trumpism, I don't mind contemporary politics woven into the fabric of Trek but I'm not sure that the liberals running this can pull it off without going beyond "Drumpf bad" - TNG always had some interesting ideas about utopia and ethical problems, not sure if they manage to combine ethics, references to contemporary politics and a gripping story in such a way DS9 did it. DS9 was pretty liberal as well, but at least it all made sense and was fun to watch. Blowing up Dahj and then "resurrecting" her by introducing a twin sister seemed stupid. What was the point of that? The audience didn't have any connection to this character, so there was no shock value in that. I don't even think the show has a small pace. Fast-paced shows like STD are a pain in the arse. The Witcher was pretty slow-paced too, so I have no idea why people think Picard was slow-paced. Slow-paced or not, the showrunners should be careful not to manuever themselves into the mess STD is in by combining too many plotlines and themes. STD season one had a war with the Klingons, the retarded spore drive and the mirror universe, way too overloaded. Picard already introduced the android question, the Romulans being refugees, a conspiracy, and the Romulans living in a Borg cube, insinuating that the Borg will somehow play a role in all this. This is already incredibly loaded and the shitty thing is that these are all common Trek themes regurgitated, the Borg should not be touched after VOY ruined them, and if they have to be touched, they should just remain the threatening villain as we know them from TNG before "Descent". So, slow pace my ass. This is already rushed. And are we ever gonna get a new species/villain? DS9 managed to create the Dominion as an intriguing enemy, and did not have to abuse the Borg or whatever. STD too did not manage to do anything new. The mirror universe was well established, and the Red Angel turned out to be a red herring. Also, I didn't like how Picard, besides his two housekeepers, has literally field workers employed. What the fuck? Not only should this be automated, it made him look like some type of landed gentry. Also, did suit and tie make a comeback on the verge to the 25th century? However, I'll keep an open might. It didn't amaze me but it also didn't disappoint me
>>5716 >by introducing a twin sister seemed stupid. What was the point of that? Data and Lore are twins, albeit made at different times. They said most promising synthetics came from twins. Data never killed Lore and was always interested in any relatives he might have had. Going so far to create an offspring. It fits. >these are all common Trek themes regurgitated Android question is the basis for the show (Measure of a Man, Maddox). DS9 established that the Federation is not all smiles and flowers (Section 31). Romulans being refugees gives the show a background, as in there's shit happening that is not on screen, but will get there. Conspiracies are a Star Trek theme period. Borg have been a threat since forever and in our 21st century tech world they're as relevant as ever. Notice how Picard lives on an old house, has a vineyard, etc. It's the clash of the old and the new, another Star Trek theme. As I said, Trek is back. No one said it has to be amazing. Just better than STD and VOY. >has literally field workers employed. Agreed, that's fucked up. But we don't know the nature of their "employment". They could just be working there. Remember how Sisko's dad ran a restaurant and had people working there? There can be work without wage-labour.
>>5742 >>5693 >>5677 This is me and I have come to eat my words. I'm watching episode 3 now and I agree with the anons who have responded to me. I guess I just wanted it to be good. STD was shit and I hoped this would be better. Nothing is happening. They're just talking in different rooms. It is amateurish, they're not doing anything while talking. In Star Trek they're usually walking, pressing buttons, moving around, here it's just shot reverse shot of people having conversations. It's so uninspired. The characters aren't likeable, the story is not very compelling because there aren't any subplots. Also, what's up with the fucking smoking? That dude smoking a huge cigar on the ship.
>>5999 Thank god I didn’t watch this shit. Knew it was gonna be bad.
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If you'd go back in time to when I was a teenager and told me that, in the future, Star Trek is so popular we'd get three new shows running concurrently, I probably would have been amazed and wondering how to watch it all. If I was told again, it would be this kind of nonsense, I would have been in disbelief. Pic related is from the new Trek comedy cartoon Lower Decks (obviously toon-boom style of course). She's the ships doctor, and not one of the main characters. The main characters are, as the title implies, low-level flunkies who are no doubt going to get up to wacky adventures with the never-changing punchline being that the bridge crew never notices they're even going on. So, y'know, nothing like the actual TNG episode Lower Decks, where the lives of the characters and their concerns are treated seriously, to the point where it ends with the implied death (not to mention torture) of the one who put everything on the line to fight injustice. TNG had its cheesy moments and humor, but it all made sense and was acceptable within the actual story/world it is depicted in. This is exactly why I prefer the Orville, since it follows the original themes of 'Trek.
>>6041 Even the old Star Trek Animated, antiquated and childish as it is, retains adult themes and interesting ideas behind all the tongue-in-cheek humor and references. The artstyle was better too, the characters looked like actual figures and beings, not painted flubber. The animation is 'worse' but it was the 60s so it gets a pass on that >inb4 toon-boom style is more fluid/budget The budget for any toon-boom style cartoon dwarfs the budget of any hand-drawn cartoon of the 60s, 70s and 80s. Moreover the availability of computers has made the process of putting them together for TV drastically faster and cheaper, allowing for more time to produce them. Star Trek Animated, despite being a throwaway series even cheaper than Hanna Barbara, had more subsistence than this noodly-limbed, inane, 'safe' garbage
>>5999 I disagree entirely. Adding to many subplots is never a good idea unless you have a clear direction to go to (like The Expanse), but evidence suggests that the guys who made STD made the story up on the spot - and even if you go back to interviews with the original DS9 writers or the VOY writers they also didn't map it all out. The first episode of Picard throws in quite a bit: - Picard is ousted from Starfleet and struggles with his demons - Data apparently has two "daughters", whatever that means - the Romulan Empire collapsed and is now scattered in space - the Romulan survivors have reclaimed an abandoned Borg Cube - there is a new Romulan secret service that hates andriods - some ratfuckery going on with androids, apparently somebody hacked them, with no clear reason why Why the hell would you act more subplots here? STP obviously relies on slow built-up, a slow-unfolding conspiracy, etc. - STD rushed in with a dozen subplots that turned out to be a mess. Some things about STP I don't like either. I don't like the Samurai guy that's teased in the last trailer. Completely ridiculous fantasy shit. I also don't like the android girl to be a Mary Sue that everybody wants to sleep with and who is incredibly intelligent and has some form of secret destiny. Universe revolving about XY mysterious charater who has to discover their destiny is not a trope you'd expect from Star Trek. Whether or not STP will be good, will depend on how it ties together its plots and conspiracies. So far I'm enjoying it. >The characters aren't likeabl What don't you like about them? >That dude smoking a huge cigar on the ship. And? Are cigars outlawed in the 24th century?
>>6045 Not him but >Are cigars outlawed in the 24th century No however it is a habit largely seen as primitive, as demonstrated in an episode where earth people from the 20th century are reawoken from cryosleep and act notably different to 24th century people. It's essentially the same as putting Arnold Schwarznegger into Star Trek, quite inconsistent. >Data apparently has two "daughters" That's even more annoying, in the original TNG Data creates a 'daughter' android but due to the complexities of her positronic brain she eventually dies due to cascade failure of her neural net, even as Data struggles to try and fix her until he eventually acquiesces, learning a heavy lesson. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Lal To have him so casually be the source of 2 new daughters off-screen is disconcerting to say the least. Hopefully they expand on that at least, though its unlikely. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Soji_Asha They don't even look like androids, too fucking human.
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>>6041 > prefer the Orville Frankly The Orville is more Star Trek than any of the new Star Treks today. The Orville was obviously originally planned as a comedic parody show like Galaxy Quest, with more obvious comedic setup and pay-off (probably how Seth McFarlane got greenlit). However it still brings up a lot of cool ideas and thought problems (such as Bortus and the whole male-only society or the Bio-ship), very much like Star Trek Original, TNG, VOY etc. It ends up providing a lot of adult themes and important food for thought. Old Star Trek was normally very insightful. It didn't pull any punches, but there was always some sort of point behind it. We see this in The Orville.... and see none of this in STD.
>>6086 The fuck is this garbage? I can't tell what the point is for the weird skit that goes on through the review and it goes on tangents and "muh cucks". The comments are /pol/ cancer, the video is inane, what a mess.
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So what did you all think of the latest Picard episode tonight? I thought it was pretty flippin awesome, but unlike most of you I've been enjoying most of the show so far. But this last episode was really pretty good, so I'm curious to hear what you guys think cause you all seem to hate it so much. Space Legolas? Samurai nuns? Romulan exposition with the classic Trek trope that the Romulan Senator dies the same episode? The classic Bird of Prey? That tactical hologram? Seven's entrance?! What's not to like? Enlighten me.
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I don't think it's a stretch to say that entertainment has been dumbed down to appeal to base ideals. It's never been a secret that Star Trek has had an underpinning of traditionally left wing ideas (at least while Roddenberry was alive), but it was never dumb or childish (or at least rarely). In part the blame lies in the hypercritical stance people have taken over the years. If you take risks, there are going to be times when you get it wrong. And like any popular media, the fandom tears into every misstep it can. Discovery, the bit that I've seen, is the opposite of risk-taking. A very standard show, with very standard, modern visuals and camera work, very standard writing, and very safe opinions, such as they are. Its ideas don't go particularly deep. There's a reason people go on and on about representation, and that's because there isn't anything else. It never uses the setting to make a point, however simplistic. There's no episode where an Orion just paints itself pink or brown and pretends to be human so they don't have to deal with the racial/political implications that come with being from a planet-wide criminal syndicate or some other basal plot idea. The Klingon Prison Ship episode for example; Good job, you accurately recreated a hellish prison camp as the backdrop to your character drama, how 'invaluably' this was used (sarcasm). Star Trek has always been about a large cast of characters and not just 1 main character, and its diversity and politics were always plot relevant and not forced, not "muh short-haired black woman who don't need no man" stereotype. Star Trek was the celebration of being yourself often enough, and tried to go against stereotypes, while Discovery's main character is essentially a woman trying to be a man while pointing out they're a woman, something easily visible in her name being MICHAEL. As a person who enjoys diverse and interesting characters especially women, the past decade of media has essentially made female characters into pathetic partisan stand-ins. Like George Carlin said, whats the point of feminism if your only idea of a strong woman is for her to act and essentially BE a man? If men suck so much (as is implied) why is imitating them a good thing? Is feminism so devoid of anything that it has to stoop to copying those it opposes? All that STD is missing is what we're getting from The Orville. NuTrak is just safe characters going through action plots. They even use modern language, which I absolutely hate. And then pat themselves on the back for having characters say "fuck". Aren't we progressive? FFS Deep Space 9 had Cirroc Lofton full on say "niggers". Except it's in an episode where it actually has a point, so no-one remembers it as special. As someone said, it's like Game of Thrones in space; war, bloody pointless brutality and political complications born out of bickering. In spite of having 1 main character there is far too large a cast in the show, ironic really. Its essentially the Clone Wars TV series but without real grounding in the films/prior media and without any relateable characters or actual new ideas or realistic intricacy. The one positive is that we never actually lost anything. The old stuff is still there, it's still just as good, and there are even people rediscovering it through the new content. Though I won't lie, it does fucking annoy me how this shit seeps into the community. For instance, now I have to bullshit-filter stuff I read on Memory Alpha because "muh Discovery is Canun!". Like, fuck off. Honestly with all the diversity bullshit, you'd wonder, why not just go straight for a bisexual Caitian like M'ress being a main character of a show? You'd get: A) a sexual minority (bisexual) B) a female lead (feminism) C) a minority race (feline) D) you get furries on board (and /x/ lyran fags) E) Trekkies would like it since its a canon alien not featured since the old days. All that would be awesome... and that's why it won't happen. The reason we won't see sexy space cats is the same reason they don't get anything else right. Sexy space cats aren't safe. They'd have to go through a design phase, of course. Then they'd have to decide how they're going to do it, make-up or CGI. They're going to want CGI, because practical effects make road-of-the-least-resistance execs puke. Then they're going to see how expensive it is and remember they're greedy, soulless fucks without vision, so they don't really need to do anything risky or avant garde. So they'll just slap a CGI tail on there like in the Into Dorkness scene and call it good. I mean, while we're playing up the promiscuous nature of Captain Kirk to almost comical levels we don't want to actually have him have sex with anything that doesn't look human in this science fiction franchise about exploration and understanding, now do we? That'd scare away Joe Average who pretends to be disgusted by anything but the thinnest of models so his friends don't call him a limp dick faggot. It's ironic that back in the day of "le boomer meme" people were a lot more internally accepting of such shit while today, they're more openly liberal when virtue signalling but in practice can't stop hiding behind their pretentious pandering. They like CGI because it's easily changed in post without reshoots. You can see this with a lot of action movies. Gone are 80's squibs (even in many 80s tribute films) and in are CGI puffs of red, because they can easily leave those out and make the entire thing PG-13. With squibs you have to rig them for every single take, and for a big action sequence that can be really time consuming to redo. With CG blood you can do a lot of takes more easily then choose the one you want and add the effects to it later. However while that is true it means that they are took lackadaisical. The limiting factor of having to reset the squibs every time forced actors to do their cuts with more effort (which shows seeing the lack of proper facial reaction and general acting in general in many of today's films. They only care about diversity as a marketing ploy. It's easy to cast non-white actors and then use them as a shield against criticism or as an accomplishment on their own. Discovery is less diverse than TOS, yet it wants all the fucking credit. It even tried to sell 'Michael' as the FIRST black star trek character, amended it to first black lead and finally first black female lead (also tripping over first female lead), ignoring TOS, VOY and DS9 in 1 fell swoop, despite STD supposedly being canon to TOS. Frankly Discovery isn't as bad as other diversity ploys at least, "le cis-white-male" meme is still present but compared to Batwoman, Star Wars: Last Jedi and other inane trash its pretty low-key - not that being compared to trash makes it better. People were going to either support it as shallow newfags, support it for its radlib policies, or hate it for both those reasons. The executives apparently didn't realize this until the 2nd season which is why Picard was made, to hook fans back in with conspirational intrigue and a beloved nostalgic set of characters. It's mediocre pandering, like Force Awakens was to Star Wars, but people appreciate even that after the trashfire of the past years. TL;DR: STD has little 'Discovery' in it being more like Game of Thrones than Star Trek, is bland, 'safe' virtue signalling aimed at SJWs and newfags because catgirls despite being more fun and new (in comparison, are not mainstream enough apparently. Picard is just a reaction to the failure of STD, and while enjoyable is mediocre in a technical sense.
>>6153 >we won't see sexy space cats I'm sure some of us would like to at least an episode about changing into an alien race. >be guest character in the episode >transporter accident turns you into a catian >"We're sorry Ensign Anon, there's nothing we can do right now" >entire episode of adjustment, learning lessons, the usual >episode almost over >"Ensign Anon, good news, we can turn you back now!" >"Nah, I'm good." >"... You were supposed to learn your lessons and then be glad to return to familiarity." >"We live in a world where you turn Andorians into Klingons so they can overhear juicy bar talk. I'll turn back later if I want to. It's only been a few days. I only just learned to tuck my tail before sitting down." >Spend the week/month/year/etc. learning to be a different race, maybe enjoy being female (if you're originally a male and got made a girl). >Hell maybe just stay that way (especially if you need to change actors off-screen because someone can't show up anymore). <All the advantages listed for diversity <Also gets TF fags bringing in money Fucking hell, I'm just some anon on the internet and in about 10 minutes I've already written up the basic idea for a better plot than STD.
>>6151 >you all seem to hate it so much We don't hate it per se, its just shallow compared to the original. Everything you've listed is a callback or a reference or an imitation. Its not trying to be its own thing while retaining the spirit of Star Trek, its a big nostalgia fest, made as a hard-reaction to STD's failure. Like Force Awakens, its less its own thing and more of a amalgamation of things people liked from the originals. Not bad or good, just mediocre. It's fun to watch casually of course.
>>6153 I love the raw anger behind this post about not getting sexy catgirls. I also dislike STD. you're turning me on, Anon. One of the reasons I like Picard is that their writers actually seem like they're writing a continuation of the series instead of whatever the hell they wanted with STD and the new movies. And since to me, there hasn't been a Trek that was good before season 2... maybe a few episodes, but the really good ones come in the later seasons, don't they? I think Picard deserves an optimistic shot.
>>6154 >Injecting furry TF/TG fetishism into Star Trek How about no.
The series in a nutshell: >TOS Weird new shit, studio doesn't really trust it, has to maintain a lot of muh traditional values. Roddenberry struggles to get good shit in there, but ends up being a huge milestone in TV and popular art in general. Has some good episodes but a lot of it is babby's first sci fi for boomers. Kirk is a straightforward power fantasy. >TNG The brand is established and trusted now. It's free to take risks and be more progressive or visionary. Has a lot of good high-concept science fiction, but kind of spoiled by Roddenberry's autism about the characters having to be boring. Also very boomer-poisoned with pandering holodeck bullshit. Picard isn't really a character at all, more like a marty stu perfect ideal (which is ok for what it's supposed to be, just not terribly compelling). >DS9 Peak Star Trek. Has plenty of high-concept sci-fi, but handled by actual characters, against a backdrop of regional galactic politics that can develop instead of previous shows being almost completely isolated episodes. Established and new species have room to breathe beyond the stereotypes. The characters actually play off each other instead of just being a high-functioning team. Sisko is underrated because his personality is understated (as he's playing the role of a stoic commander). >Voyager Tried turning a sci fi franchise into an adventure one. Some good episodes, but by this point the writing was starting to degrade and some premises were wearing thin. Constant studio fuckery made it even worse. The trend in characters being more flawed and dynamic continued from DS9, instead of sticking with that balance, and it's not an improvement. Janeway is seen as obnoxious, but that's pretty justified given the story, as are the characters being shittier. Unfortunately she doesn't have enough positive qualities to make up for the negatives, and she's too inconsistent for her problems to become endearing or relatable. The story making sense doesn't make it compelling. >Enterprise An attempt to keep the TV Star Trek franchise alive, by going back to an origin story. Lots of fan-wank and fanservice, plus TOPICAL shit about 9/11. Archer has the Janeway problem of inconsistency but even worse. >JJ Trek >Discovery >Picard whatever man shit's boring who cares I second this >>5652 for the order but note that you definitely can skip around TNG, which has some fucking cringeworthy early episodes before they figured out what they were doing with the series. Maybe look up a list of the best episodes for the early part. Voyager and Enterprise are optional IMO.
>>6171 >Peak Star Trek. Don't forget that lesbo scene
>>6171 >Sisko is underrated because his personality is understated (as he's playing the role of a stoic commander). Sisko is one of, if not the, most un-stoic of the different captains, though. I'd argue even Archer is more stoic than Sisko in his general interactions with others.
>>6171 >Peak Star Trek. <literal space magic happening encroaching on Babylon 5 territory >actual characters While not untrue, that applies to TNG as well your beef with Picard is your own >stoic Sisko If anything Picard was the stoic one and Sisko more laid back. >regional galactic politics something TNG started near the middle of its run and in its films >boomer-poisoned Fuck off, the holodeck was used for hobbies and amusement as well as for thought problems and sci-fi concepts (such as the creation of Moriarty) >Voyager <degrade It was fine, the changes made sense and the 'degradation' made it flow better in extents. >>6160 How about stop being a prude. You're exactly the issue cited in >>6153
>>6177 Mate, I'm not being a prude because I don't want niche fetish stuff in Star Trek. You can go ahead and have your fetish stuff in some other medium that was created explicitly for that, or fan fiction if you really want it in Star Trek that badly. Why do you think you need to shove your fetishes into *everything* though? Did it not occur to you that the *majority* of people do not share your fetish and furthermore may even be actively put off by it? And this is coming from someone that literally has no issues with TG/TF related media.
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>>6179 >I don't want niche fetish stuff in Star Trek <niche stuff in Star Trek is now bad! You missed the point of the rant (and Star Trek) didn't you? Niche ideas, concepts and fetishes have been a part of Star Trek from the beginning, only newfags don't recognize this. >Why do you think you need to shove your fetishes No-one is shoving fetishes into anything, shapeshifting (among other things)is par for the course in Star Trek. Hell in the first season of TNG Troy was impregnated by an energy lifeform with itself so that it could experience being an organic life-form. Furries and other anthros were a part of Star Trek from the start, as the rant pointed out, nobody was bitching about that 50 years ago but because you lot are all virtue-signalling and can't seem to discern sexuality from identity you need to screech about it being important or not when that is irrelevant. M'ress hopped into bed with Scotty in one episode, nobody gave a fuck because that was just a commentary on how casual the idea of interspecies relationships was, not the focal point, and neither is it the focal point of the greentext. Stop making this about 'muh fetishes' when that wasn't the point, but a semi-joking addendum. >the *majority* of people do not share your fetish and furthermore may even be actively put off by it Stop making it about fetishes and ignoring shit you pretentious prude. The greentext mentioned that it can attract TF-fags, not that it was essentially about them. Stop projecting. >this is coming from someone that literally has no issues with TG/TF related media. <How do you do, fellow ̶k̶i̶d̶s̶ ̶ TF-fags? What anecdotal rubbish Where in >>6154 is there anything openly sexual implied. TF fags aren't all about sex you dumbass, changing into something else is not sexual unless you make it. Fuck you for having to explain this shit.
>>6182 >You clearly just don't understand Stark Trek like I do. Alright mate. >No-one is shoving fetishes into anything Mate, I wasn't just pulling some "hey fellow kids" shtick like you assume I am. To be blunt about it (even though I generally avoid discussing my fetishes), TG/TF is my fetish of choice, and I have plenty enough experience to recognize exactly the scenario that was described in the post I responded to as stock standard TG fantasy. "Oh no, I've been accidentally turned into a woman! What do I do! Oh no, I'm starting to enjoy it, now I don't want to turn back at all!". It's honestly pretty uninspired. I'm not even against the premise of "accidentally turned into another species", it was the explicitly fetishistic way it was framed that I reject, because I do *not* want Star Trek to turn into a vehicle for fetishism regardless of whether I find the fetish appealing or not. >can't seem to discern sexuality from identity Wait. Are you saying TF/TG fetishism is an *identity*? I mean...I guess as much as anything else can be, but...I really hope you don't base your "identity" around something like that. It'd be like if I based my identity around liking pizza a lot. Listen, I don't give a shit about "furries" (they aren't the same thing really, but it's a distinction that I don't think actually matters here) in Star Trek, so long as they aren't being used as a vehicle for fetishism. You like anthropomorphic animal-like species in Star Trek? That's cool, I don't care one way or the other mate, more power to ya. Do I care if they have sex in the course of the show? Not really, no more than I have trouble with most sex in Star Trek usually being done kind of poorly. >What anecdotal rubbish What the *hell* are you on about? I didn't realize I need to provide *evidence* of my fetishes. Do you want a screenshot of my TFGamesSite account or some shit? The topics on /d/ about it? Would that be less "anecdotal" for you, you insufferable prick? >is there anything openly sexual implied A fetish doesn't always have to explicitly be sexual in nature, but that doesn't mean it isn't a fetish. Fuck *you* for purity testing me on this niche fetish of all things you faggot.
>>6184 > I have plenty enough experience to recognize exactly the scenario that was described in the post I responded to as stock standard TG fantasy There are a lot of SFW films with gender-swap or race-swap (or both) that are excellent and irrelevant "muh fetish". Just like anthro animals in antiquity =/= furries, or a rectangle =/= square. >It's honestly pretty uninspired. Did anyone say it was something so unique? How does that take away from it? There are plenty of things in Star Trek are standard Sci-Fi ideas (like AI robots learning to be human or interspecies relationships) , doesn't make Star Trek bad. Most ideas today have been thought of at one point or another, the issue is making your own twist or just having fun with it as I suggested in the greentext. > the explicitly fetishistic way it was framed Bull-fucking-shit, are you just using words and phrases without thinking? Where is thee fetishism besides the whole "hey let me enjoy the changes" thing? You're projecting your own hard-on here. >Are you saying TF/TG fetishism is an *identity*? Not saying its essentially an identity to you, though it is for others, the point is more t othe extent about any sexual features. Just because its TF doesn't make it sexual, the context and execution does. >they aren't the same thing really M'Ress is a Caitian, literal anthro pantherines who PURR. There are lizard anthros, dog anthros and others in Old Star Trek, those are essentially furry characters, or interpreted as such. >I don't really care if they're ther or having sex but 'muh fetishism' Again, you're projecting. Fetishism wasn't the intent. The mentioning of furries and TG-fags is merely reference to the obvious demographic that would be interested for their own niche reasons, rather than that being the main reason. >I didn't realize I need to provide *evidence* of my fetishes You don't, but mentioning "I'm X and I don't...." is a dumb anecdotal argument. You being a TG-fag is irrelevant to the argument, but is being used as a bullshit reason for 'credibility'. >you insufferable prick <says the person bitching about "muh TG in Star Trek" Kek >that doesn't mean it isn't a fetish Just because it is your fetish doesn't make it automatically a fetish. A child can smear food on their face and then eat it, does that make that a food-fetish? NO, because context fucking matters, and because interpretation fucking matters. Most people aren't going to be sexually aroused by seeing TG, but they're not really going to be disgusted unless its openly sexualized. Meanwhile a self-asserted TG-fag like you would find the situation to be their fetish. >purity testing LOL fuck you, you projecting paranoid cunt.
>>6184 >>6179 >>6160 If you want an example of Star Trek TF in a purposefully sexual greentext. >beam up with cute Caitian >Transporter mishap turns you into a cute Caitian too or merges the two of you >Possibly even adding years to your life by being a longer lived species, or simply younger >They do tests >Doctor tells you the good news first; >Your DNA is stable, there are no signs of degeneration >Then the bad news; >Trying to re-establish your original bio-patterns is too risky >Previous cases all had facilitating circumstances we can't replicate here >For all intents and purposes you are permanently stuck in this body <O-oh no! What a disaster! <No, I will need some time to cope with the fact that I now have the body of a young, supple cat woman in a world that is incredibly sex-positive; no problems with same-sex and/or interspecies relations to the point of there being an entire free love planet. <In fact, I'll take my leave there. Prep the shuttle, doc! And the sexy adventure ensues, to boldly go where no deviant has before! This is an obviously sexualized and fetishized greentext, unlike the one you responded too.
>>6151 The warrior cult seems out of character for Romulans, especially the sword stuff. It makes sense for Klingons to use blades as they're a warrior race, but for the Romulans who are into technology and deception it's a stupid idea. Also that retarded anime sword scene with the guy beheading the "senator" (apparently they came to the planet 14 years ago, how old was the guy when he was senator, 25?). Star Trek is not Star Wars, when characters pick up swords in the 24th century they better give a good explanation for it besides "it looks cool". The Bird of Prey looked cool, I give you that. Seven of Nine was teased to appear, but I'm hoping she didn't become too "human". Part of the appeal of Seven's character was that she was quite Borg-ish even after she decoupled with the collective, if she's now just a regular female character that would be disappointing, especially considering how old Seven could be a nice foil for Picard. In general, I'm still having doubts over whether or not Kurtzman and co. have properly watched and understood Star Trek. There are some things that feel "off" to me, like the overblown relationship between Picard and Data, as if Picard was in love with data or something when in TNG data was more often than not a foil for Picard. They also haven't really given an explanation as to why the Federation went from a humanistic utopia to a MAGA style caricature ("good morning, plastic people") with a Fox News lady interviewing Picard and baiting him about refugees. One could speculate that this was a result of the Dominion War but the writers probably know fuck-all about DS9.
>>6174 He's pretending to be stoic though because he's a commander. His sense of humor is dry, and he is a master at hiding his personally-motivated actions behind protocol. Stoicism isn't about being a robot, but controlling yourself. Picard for example is just kind of blank. >defending the holodeck episodes where there's zero stakes and people COOM over cars and shit ok boomer
>>6214 Second part meant for >>6177 Clicking the post to quote didn't work for some reason.
>>6153 Star Trek did in the past score points with representation though, not as the sole but as one of the tropes that made it "lefty". The problem is that nobody cares about this anymore because our social values have changed a lot since TOS. Nobody gives a crap about gay characters or gender-bending first names. Our current ideological dilemma is the gridlock of neoliberalism. If you really want to make a provocative, progressive point that generates outrage just like Kirk kissing Uhura in TOS, you could have Michael say something like "back in those primitive days, earth too used a market system to allocate resources and labour, and not a planned economy" when they discover a pre-warp civilisation that uses capitalist markets. But this actually would require balls and I don't see the people who are in charge of Trek now having any.
>>6214 >defending the holodeck episodes where there's zero stakes and people COOM over cars and shit You have to admit that this was a shift in VOY compared to the Trek that came before, this may have something to do with the "end of history" mentality prevalent in the 90s. TNG, TOS and also DS9 always made the point that the 20th century was a time that was primitive compared to the future. Money, consumerism, greed, etc. was looked down upon as products of their time that have been overcome. Yet VOY, more then once, seems to faint in awe when confronted with shitty American consumerism like TV soaps (in the episode where they travel to 20th century earth Neelix literally gets fascinated by American trash TV), car brands and mainstream dad rock. ENT was actually smarter in that regard. It portrayed the crew as still having hang-ups from the "primitive past" like militarism, doing it like "the good old ways" etc. but also overcoming them in the process of forming intergalactical alliances, culminating in the founding of the Federation.
>>6217 TNG is guilty of this shit too, especially since it introduced the holodeck and the opportunity to use generic show/movie props rather than bespoke Star Trek stuff.
>>6214 >Muh Consoom meme Fuck off you disingenuous faggot. Having hobbies and exploring them episodically is just fine. Do you expect people to do drugs and drink on their off time or be constantly perfect 1 dimensional figures "the captain" "the First lieutenant" etc.? >ok boomer This dead meme is starting to be a good indicator of newfaggotry and pretentious zoomers. DS9 had a lot of dumb holodeck moments, mostly because it broke the atmosphere of a war going on while TNG did so episodically and not when the plot had high linear stakes. >>6216 >Nobody gives a crap about gay characters or gender-bending first names Heres the thing, nobody cared back then but it was done because there wasn't anything wrong with it. The point being made is how everyone is now doing it on purpose as a main part of a character for no reason except to virtue signal. >this actually would require balls and I don't see the people who are in charge of Trek now having any. Kek, this exactly >when they discover a pre-warp civilisation that uses capitalist markets Ah but this is nu-Trek where they think Elon Musk is an inspiration and Spock is emotional and had a secret sister, it can't go around being consistent and criticizing capitalism, that would be scary socialism!
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>>6041 If they really wanted a goofy Star Trek cartoon they could still have made one without using the generic toonboom format but more like pic related. Or even the original STA which was VERY simplistic. Computer tech today makes animating it a cinch and budgeting is a bullshit excuse considering how much is spent on modern crappy animation and artstyle when 1/4 the same budget went to creating animated classics of the past.
>>6229 The problem is that 2D animation is becoming such a lost art in the US. So although the budget was 1/4th of what it would be today, there were more skilled animators and the cost of living back then was low enough in SoCal that they could make a career out of 2D animation work, which was plentiful compared to today. A big reason why animation styles look so derivative these days is because most of the animation work is outsourced to South Koreans getting paid next to nothing, and the concept/story stuff is done in the US. That style keeps it closer to what the artists are used to drawing anyway so they don't need additional training. That isn't to say that some South Korean animation isn't great though, they have had their gems. It's just like anime, there's a lot of bland filler and then the Ghiblis in between. It's just unfortunate that the creators of the Star Trek animation decided to go with the former. It's too bad they didn't decide to hire Titmouse. I bet they could have done a good job.
>there's a race that can smell lies
>>6323 That's not really what pissed me off about that episode. A hypersensitive race can indeed pick up on clues like sweat, pupil enlargement, heartbeat, etc. - how do you think lie detectors work? After all, they fool him quite easily in the end by just giving him beta-blockers. What pissed me off was that they had to introduce a Star Wars space Las Vegas with literal corporations, chain gangs, cartels etc. - I could accept this for things like the Orion Syndicate but for the Federation? Also, to make Seven of Nine an overly emotional killer and rogue vigilant was a bad decision, change my mind.
>>6324 >how do you think lie detectors work? Lie detectors are bullshit. >I could accept this for things like the Orion Syndicate but for the Federation? Can't have the federation be space communism.
>>6324 >Also, to make Seven of Nine an overly emotional killer and rogue vigilant was a bad decision, change my mind. I can't, because you are correct. I was so fucking hopeful after last week's episode. This latest one kinda ruined it for me. Why the FUCK does ST have to be SO fucking grimdark now holy shit. Just like STD all over again. Nobody writing this shit has any imagination or optimism anymore, I guess? Fucking infuriating.
>>6324 >What pissed me off was that they had to introduce a Star Wars space Las Vegas with literal corporations, chain gangs, cartels etc. It gave me Neuromancer vibes. Especially cause the place is called "Freecloud", in Neuromancer it was "Freeside".
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>>6229 >>6230 >>6041 Apparently they ordered 2 seasons off the bat, and it's airing on CBS. More importantly its being made by one of the creators of Rick and Morty. Barf, farts, burps and really stupid 'wacky fun' are assured now and Rick and Morty memers are going to probably drop in on this and shit up the fandom. It's amazing the The Orville was created by Seth McFarlane, the maker of Family Guy (though he's been pretty bored with that for a while now, which is why its so shit), but he still made it an intelligent and humorous Star Trek homage, so maybe Lower Decks MIGHT get some good moments in, however like Gravity Falls or Adventure Time its going to be pretty garbage over-all even with the interesting ideas. - https://trekmovie.com/2018/10/25/breaking-animated-comedy-star-trek-lower-decks-from-rick-mortys-mike-mcmahon-gets-two-season-order/ - http://archive.ph/Z3YKo As a side note STD is now being supplemented with a series called Short Treks with characters from the Older Series in short unsequenced episodes (so basically shallow, high-budgeted short parodic fanfilms). Why am I mentioning this? Because the same Rick and Morty creator is ALSO writing one of those episodes. - https://www.newsweek.com/rick-morty-star-trek-discovery-harry-mudd-writer-rainn-wilson-1124578 - http://archive.ph/eNIHJ
>>6357 >its being made by one of the creators of Rick and Morty Yuk. Thank god i didn’t waste my time on this shit.
>>6366 The guy seems like a bigger Trek fan than JJ Abrams and is trying to do something original. JJ Abrams got three movies.
Go neck yourself, zoomer cunt There was no more Star Trek made after the terrible mess of Enterprise.
>>6367 >a bigger Trek fan than JJ Abrams Being a fan =/= making good content. The characters are OOC as fuck at the bare minimum. >>6371 Who are you replying to?
>>5686 >Also the trek society is completely bourgeoise now. By trying to give the characters more depth and edge like other current series they actually achieved this ironically enough.
>>6371 It's sad they tried something different in Enterprise and the franchise immediately keeled over (although I wasn't a fan myself). At least we're through the dark ages now and got The Expense, even if it's not a real substitute.
>>6655 Pretty much all of the characters in ST:P revolve around typical TV tropes though. Picard also comes over as a complete naive geezer. He's the fucking title character yet he feels like a pawn.
>>6656 The Expanse has the problem of Holden and Naomi being a bit boring but it has become my favourite TV show on air right now, not gonna lie. They're also not afraid to touch upon economic issues like NuTrek.
>>6668 Yeah it's my favorite show right now too. I think I agree with you on both of those characters being a bit boring which is unfortunate because most of them are pretty cool (I want Bobbie to step on my face and bully me), but I thought last season was kinda slow. Still pretty good though. Can't wait for next season.
>>6367 >fanboy project There’s probably no bigger fan of Sonic and Pikachu than ChrisChan and look at what he’s up to now.
Geez, in the last episode they've really just cashed in on the nostalgia. Riker and Troy are farmers now and that's all there is to it. Everybody shook hands and said goodbye in the end. What I'm upset about is how they killed Hugh. That bitch ninja villian is not the least bit charismatic, but to tell everybody how "evil" she is she has to brutalize beloved characters people actually have a connection to. So she kills all these traumatized ex-Borg that were Hugh's friends, and then kills him to. I am okay with characters dying, but I have a problem when old characters are simply brought back to be meatbags for the new slick villian to kill to set them up. Khan only ever killed redshirts and he was iconic anyway. Write better villains. Two episodes ago they also brutally tortured Icheb from Voyager to death, just to set up that mafia lady. Seven of Nine is gonna come back next episode and it looks like she's continuing to be a cold-blooded killing machine, already wielding two rifles at once in the teaser, lol. What a beautiful conclusion of her story arc from Voyager that ended up with her being human again. Also, calling it, Sotchi (constantly having to think about the fucking Winter Olympics in Russia few years back when I hear that name) is going to be the Borg Queen, screenshot this. In the teaser you see the Borg Cube "regenerating", probably activated by her. Maddox couldn't solve the secret of the positronic net so he used Borg tech (which is why he was on Freecloud in the first place in debt to that smuggler lady). This isn't a new trope, already happened similarly with Lore in that TNG two-parter with a bunch of abandoned Borg. Kinda nerfed the Borg as well, massively. By the way, when Picard was interviewed by the Fox News lady in the first episode, they really set it up that Picard was of course right to help the Romulans, and they then proceeded to show every Romulan to be an absolute cocksucker evil guy. Good job.
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What a wonderful place! 90% of the people here are rational and make complete sense! Tell me, what do you think of alien portrayal in cinema? What was the purpose behind making "sci"-fi just edgy and grotesque wackiness?
I actually liked the last episode. It had a good pacing while keeping you interested. The dialog was written much better and Picard sounded like Picard again. The only thing I disliked is "Seven ex machina" which could have been handled more elegantly (is there any reason for the sword guy to exist at all?), and that they spaced all the drones. Would have loved to see some Borg action. I guess what's left now is the resolution as to why synthetic life will result in an apocalypse. I hope it's gonna be intelligent. There will also be a Starfleet vs Romulan battle, to which the cube with Seven's little collective will come to the rescue. The institute in the teaser is also literally called "Koppelius Institute" - Koppelius was a character from the 1807 German horror story "The Sandman" in which a professor named Koppelius created an automaton with which a traumatized young student falls in love with, killing himself upon realizing it's a lifeless object used by the professor on him.
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Star Trek Picard Episode 8 really shows the neoliberal character of the writers/show. The Borg, after being "liberated" by Hugh, keep on reproducing the same material conditions and their lives go largely unchanged. Even the borg robots, that create new possibilities of ship design, organisation, etc. are also use to reproduce the old Borg cube. In fact, all authoritative institutions in the show are shown as fixed, with factions fighting over control of the objects. The Borg cube hosts Romulans, liberated Borgs, then "real" Borgs again without undergoing any significant change. Federations "betrayal" of its principles and itself does not happen because of any kind of structural or internal problems that are hinted at in Deep Space 9, but an external enemy that infiltrated their ranks, a foreigner. Even then, that enemy does not want to destroy the Federation, the enemy is a single-issue movement that wishes to destroy all synthetic life forms in the Galaxy. Picard wishes to stop them, making his mission not to save the Federation or do anything important, but to fight for the rights of synthetic life forms, which have wiped out and therefore do not actually exist. Their gripe is not with the Federation or the system that allowed the genocide to happen, it is with the evil individuals who have gamed the system and made the Federation genocide the synthetics. This signals that established order is not to be questioned, things "just work", it is evil individuals who use it for their evil ends. And what is the reason for these evil ends? A written warning from three hundred thousand years ago from an unknown civilisation that seems to have been wiped out by synthetics. In other words, a ham-fisted message about religious radicalism who wishes to negate an identity or destroy a people/species, and how it is up to individuals within the Federation to fight them using the system. And why wouldn't you use the system? After all the total elimination of all synthetics in the Federation doesn't seem to have had an effect on the society, everything just continued as normal. This tells us that once the Federation was able to create a superior being they did not use their abilities to do anything new, but they just had them become part of the system. Once the synthetics were gone, their roles were filled by humans and everything went on as normal. The only damage we can see is the psyche of Captain Rios who became an alcoholic with a split personality disorder. Captain Rios' initial devil-may-care and freedom loving appearance were nothing more than a front for a broken human who years to be in the structured hierarchy of Starfleet. They go so far to say that he considered his captain, his superior, his father. "Called him pops in my head, almost said it out loud once." Fucked up. Every time a character is about to do something interesting or just something, they are stopped by the plot and are then whisked away to the next dialogue. The characters do not seem like real people, they seem to be robots with a mission. We do not see them respond to situations in a characteristic way, all we see them do is talk to one another. Nothing ever really happens in the show outside of their mission. They talk a lot about the past, with the present existing only to find out the "truth" about the past and to achieve a SJW goal. The show is a 45 minute shot, reverse shot snooze fest, perfectly encapsulating the monotony of liberal capitalism and wage labour drudgery. The only thing that they could imagine is to have the characters talk in different settings, one of which is an idyllic late 19th century French farmhouse with servants and field hands. Appropriation of other cultures is the only way neoliberals can create anything of their own because ultimately it is an ideology without imagination, one which wishes to reproduce the current order and make money, so that money could be spent on better stuff and travel, rather than creating and building. Speaking of imagination, the insides of the ships are empty and look uncomfortable/hostile for humanoid life forms. Everything is metal, cold, there aren't even any seats. The bridge of Picard&Co.'s ship's bridge is literally five office chairs in front of a small table. Either to save money or because they did not care, there aren't any consoles or panels, but they wave their hands in the air, on some sort of 3D hologram interface. They even use this interface to fly; what if something goes into the pilots eye during a manouver? They'd be fucked. and it's not only that there are not consoles, but there isn't anything else either. All the rooms are empty and devoid of any sign that actually living things live there. at least USS Enterprise had carpets and hallways. >pic related, me on the left watching Star Trek Picard
>>6759 Our sense of what looks normal evolved with what is normal on our planet. Other planets with different conditions would likely have a different normal that seems alien and weird to us.
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>>6964 Simultaneously there are limits as to what lifeforms can develop as. Many alien life forms simply do not make as much evolutionary sense compared to clearly carbon-based humanoids like Klingons. Its more likely that aliens will develop similar adaptations to similar conditions. denser gravity -> denser bones, desert conditions -> lighter outer-shell/fur/scales etc. There is reason that nearly unrelated life forms develop similar appearances and adaptations, the perfect example is ichthyosaurs, fish and dolphins. All 3 have the same smooth, tapered body shape, dorsal, pectoral and tail fins, each evolved in separate manners but superficially looking the same. Star Trek has explored the concept of unconventional life often enough, but they are often incompatible with conditions on board Federation ships and hard to identify. This + production limits means humanoids are more prolific creatures featured. Some aliens such as the Ferengi are made for a specific point/foil to the Federation and their ideology. >>6759 >90% of the people here are rational and make complete sense! I think we all try our best >What was the purpose behind making "sci"-fi just edgy and grotesque wackiness? Monster movies are cheaper and better at bringing in money than thoughtful films like Enemy Mine. It's a symptom of American gung-ho fantasy >alien portrayal in cinema While Star Wars and Star Trek have been very expansive in how diverse and interesting their aliens are, few outside their sphere, (other than the Predator and Xenomorph) have much acclaim since alien's are treated more like plot-devices and attackers than actual people.
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>>6759 Alright, I am no treky and this is the first time I am posting ITT, but your post inspires me to go on a scuffed, possibly autistic tirade about how aliens would look at least in my opinion. Speaking of your pic related, I would probably lean far more towards A, yet I do think aliens like what I assume is your waifu no offense please is also unrealistic. So here is my reasoning. By the way, I am no expert on any of this, so take it all with a lot of salt. First, I am limiting the alien variations to goldilock zone planets, so ones more or less like Earth. Now we also know that Earth had a few interesting periods in its history. With different composition of its atmosphere lifeforms also differed wildly. So apart from stuff we would more or less find in our current period on Earth dominated by mammals consideration should also be given for larger lizards and insects being possible aliens as well. As for things like rock-people or zero-g outer space lifeforms, well, it really is just pure fantasy that might exist, but I'd argue shouldn't be considered. However these, again, might be sort of like B side ayy lmaos. Now with general shapes that the alien flora and fauna can have in mind, let us consider which creatures could realistically form a basic society and eventually achieve technology at least of current human standard. Let's consider a few things that a species must and mustn't be to achieve this. <Generational information transfer From my understanding the single most important trait needed to form a society that would advance and not stagnate. I have no clue how our ancestors gained this ability, nor why no other species that we know of didn't as well. So for now let's just assume anyone can get it or else this ends here with me saying idk maybe only primates under certain savanna conditions can get it. <Sociability Obviously for any use to come of it the animal must also be communal. No JBP lobsters or egoist spiders. However to my knowledge basically every animal family has examples of this (communal spiders, most apes, crows and so on *sniff*). Again I will just assume this means any sort of animal can qualify this need. <Size Both micro and mega fauna will encounter difficulties that average sized animals don't worry about, hence they would most likely be the most common type of alien species to reach the stars. <Appendages Most likely any successful species will need appendages that could easily manipulate objects, so probably no space ungulates without some sort of trunk, fish etc. Now, I would argue that any animal species with these traits I just mentioned qualified will likely be able to form at least a primitive communist society, however this does not mean they will be able to advance further. So, traits for a species to have in order to reach human levels of development let's put what I learned from Cockshott to a truly useful task: <Vore Arguably only omnivores and perhaps herbivores can reach a sedentary primitive communist and eventually slave society. Carnivores will not be able to move away from hunter economy, and I doubt they would manage to create a farming economy based on slaughtering as it would be highly labour intensive. Herbivores might also be a bit fucked since it might get a bit hard to survive only on gathering and harvests, but perhaps they even beat omnivores since they would be more motivated to transition to agriculture, thus not needing a kick in the balls like the extinction of megafauna was for humans. <Terrain Only land-based species will have the best chance. Aquatic species will have trouble with mastering fire, which means that while they might reach slave or even feudal society, it will not be able to progress towards capitalist machine production. Perhaps alternative power sources for it can be found, yet again, this is a severe minus. RIP space squids. Well, can't really think of any others of the top of my head, so I guess that's all your alien needs to qualify in order to get into space then. Now let's also look at appearance. I think it's safe to say that the form of the body changes a lot during the primitive communist period. Some changes from the well known animals that could happen in the case of them becoming a sapient species: de-furryfication (though some would likely remain like human facial and bodily hair, change of appendage size and length, some general light changes to facial features, increase in head size. I guess final thing to address is the "rubberheads". I think it might not be to far fetched. It is dependent mainly due to random mutations, so no real reason why our ears are round and not elf-like, or why our nose isn't more flat. So, I guess that is kind of it then. Hope you enjoyed the tirade!
>>6971 >From my understanding the single most important trait needed to form a society that would advance and not stagnate. I have no clue how our ancestors gained this ability, nor why no other species that we know of didn't as well. So for now let's just assume anyone can get it or else this ends here with me saying idk maybe only primates under certain savanna conditions can get it. A lot of species do this. Even non-social mammals often pass on information, like bear cubs watching their mother hunt.
>>6971 Very nice input! So, can you post a pic example of what kind of ayy you find the most realistic?
>>6971 The Star Trek thing is that all life in the universe was "seeded" from the same source. I think they even strongly hint in one of the TNG episodes that all humanoid aliens have the same long-forgotten ancestor. But humanoid aliens aren't the only aliens in Star Trek. You have: sheliac corporate, goo that kills Tasha Yar, species 8472, the crystalline entity, the weird thing that thinks USS Enterprise-D was its mother (or mate? show is Freudian, so it doesn't matter), etc.
I can't believe how much I hated the season finale of Picard. Really? Picard is a fucking android now?!
>>7427 It was terrible. This show was just people talking to one another. Literally nothing happened.
They put Picard into an old man's body and then put a timer in it. Data has been stuck in a room, listening to records for all this time. And the big finale is Data aging and dying. This was total horseshit.
>>7437 Also, Picard outliving Data is bullshit too. Data was the embodiment of humans realising their limits and going above them (Marxist idea). To make it as if Data was somehow less than a human all along, and have our weakness be his biggest triumph is shitty. Yes, we get that dying is part of life, but Data wasn't alive in the same way we were, that's the whole point. We make peace with our morality, he makes peace with his immortality. Data becoming mortal, while Picard rejects immortality, sends a message that something better than what we have is unimaginable.
Isn't it a bit ridiculous how they've come from creating two functioning sentinent androids (Data and Lore) by a genius scientist to now being able to mass-produce androids indistinguishable from humans? At this point they've acquired godlike level of technological development. To them, Data compares like a Commodore 64 to a high-end gaming PC. Data had flaws, at some point him being sentinent was debated, he felt nothing when his Lal died, he didn't understand things on a meta level (humour, metaphors) and while he was learning he never really overcame his artificial side. There was an emotion chip but it malfunctioned all the time. Lore, on the other hand, was given emotions and ambitions, and that flipped him completely towards the deep end. Soji on the other hand is so human that she literally had an emotional breakdown when she realized that she was artificial. I like the androids from Westworld - at times, serious questions are raised about their actual personhood. And when you carve them up you realise they're pretty clearly machine underneath that fake skin and blood. They could have gotten for a more toned down version like that, instead of like "yep, we can actually produce quasi-humans now." The Borg have already been nerfed to death but this might be it for them to look ridiculously outdated. You want to combine biological life and technology? Oh, guess what, the Federation now produces tech-only life that has all the qualities of biological life but none of its flaws. Star Trek: Picard teased me in the beginning hoping that we get more of the "Measure of a Man" type of typical Trek philosophical/ethical dilemmas as the story unfolds in that regard, but it dropped the ball. Episode 8 was only good episode, episode 9 and 10 was such an utter debacle I am genuinely interested how they could write this shit without physically cringing.
>>7439 Just to add on that, anybody noticed how they inflated the relationship between Picard and Data to a ridiculous level. I mean, Picard respected Data and supported him, but he wasn't literally in love with him or something.
Also, this: https://youtu.be/jqn0WhG53uA A couple of them slipped past. Did they really have Patrick Stewart say "ass-deep in Romulan space"? What the fuck. How did Stewart not intervene and told him this is absolutely not how Picard, especially the elderly version, talks?
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There's so much shit... and it's costing them so much Like what's it going to take to get them to finally give us sexy space cats?
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>>6936 interesting. you might find this paper on historical materialism useful for developing your argument. particularly the critique of the realist school which sees nature as unchanging. In star trek universe then, should we not see that the 'races' should adapt to the inter-stellar order (which also constitues them in a complex dialectic)?
I'm halfway through TNG. It's very comfy. Does Picard have the same feel?
>>7637 Don't even ask, brother. Please, just save yourself from having your heart torn out and displayed to you like a golden chalice to be smashed on the floor and shattered into a million billion pieces.
>>7637 Absolutely not, it's a soulless rip-off with a bad story and the most lukewarm standard themes. Go with DS9 once you finished TNG. DS9, especially season 3-6, is Star Trek at its peak.
>>7637 Found this kinda lib article that describes the new shit perfectly. https://medium.com/@luke.d.a.wilson/star-trek-picard-a-utopia-lost-69cfb23918c4 Also Patrick Stewart is an overrated piece of shit that soldout himself as a literal piece of shit in the Emoji movie.
>>7637 >>7675 Best advice is just keep watching in the order it came out and stop when you feel like it's losing your interest.
>>7691 Go look up Orson Welles last role I want to hear your reaction to that one
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>>7693 >implying ending your career as Unicron is not a poetic criticism of capitalism tendency of assimilation and being based as fuck at the same time
>>7595 Thanks for that PDF, it looks interesting. I'm gonna read it today or tomorrow. >>7595 >In star trek universe then, should we not see that the 'races' should adapt to the inter-stellar order (which also constitues them in a complex dialectic)? In TNG (less so in DS9) races have planet-wide cultures. It was probably done for simplicity-sake and is often made fun of. However, it allowed for dialectical solution of issues the Enterprise crew would encounter. In some episodes, they'll visit a planet and the leader of the planet will tell them about some terrorist who is fucking with them. Then they go in thinking this guy is a terrorist but once they meet with him they realise that he's a leader of a movement or an expression of a tension in their society that is (usually) buried and hidden by the dominant faction. In some episodes the differences between the factions are physical. Ultimately, in the end of the episode, synthesis is reached and both sides are integrated into the "solution" and we're told that their society is better for it. We get more space geo(?)-politics in DS9. However, it has a less of a dialectical message and more of a moral one, "do the right thing", "tradition and spirituality are important for well-being of a race", "there are bad actors who wish to dominate and destroy and they must be stopped by good actors", stuff like that.
What's your favorite DS9 episode, /trek/? For me, it's Bar Association.
>>7712 >my job flipping burgers at Wendy's is actually a poetic criticism of the meat industry
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>>7783 That one is fire. In the Pale Moonlight, Far Beyond the Stars, and It's Only a Paper Moon of course. I also really love In The Cards and the one with Iggy Pop in it with all the Ferengi. I know they're kinda campy but they just give me a warm feeling like nothing else. God I fucking love DS9. >>7637 Fully agree with this anon's response >>7675 Also I was watching some Season 3 TNG last night. It just amazes me how an extremely average, early episode of TNG like The Survivors is about a million times better than any single episode of nu-Kurtz-Trek. This episode had unique sci-fi ideas, nobody in the crew were assholes to each other. Nobody died unless you count offscreen before the episode began. I can't say that about any of the new Trek. Sad as fuck. I hope real Star Trek gets made again someday.
>>7793 >I hope real Star Trek gets made again someday. They never stopped making real Star Trek. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_fan_productions
>>7794 Are these actually good? I have never watched them because I assumed I'd be turned off by a low budget production of a show that usually needs a lot of special effects. Which one is the very best or your favorite? I'm willing to give it a shot.
>>7783 Tribunal. It runs only on cliché, but I can't not love that episode.
>>7800 Hidden Frontier, Intrepid and Of Gods and Men.
>>7716 The Cardassians have a redemption arc though by the end. Even with the Founders there is a peaceful sublation with Odo returning. DS9 was great because it did not provide for a synthetic solution for the Federation, there had to be war, they have to play the game - similar with how the Borg are an enemy "that can't be bargained with, can't be reasoned with" - it pushes a society which has a supposedly higher moral code than us to the edge, and where the characters can't solve the moral dilemma but have to turn into what humanity used to be without not inciting that which was thought to be overcome.
>>7793 >>7793 Well, Roddenberry's "no conflict" rule turned out to be a bit of a hindrance and was abolished in DS9. I'm generally not opposed to introducing more grim dark setting, deaths of some characters, and a serialized story. Remember these are all things people love DS9 for. The problem with NuTrek is that it is just bad writing and Kurtzman not giving a shit about Star Trek. You want characters to be snarky and having conflicts among one another? I'm okay with that, but don't turn every dialog into zingers and have them drop lots of f-bombs. The people in NuTrek, especially in STD are thoroughly unpleasant people. Camera is always shaky, constant action scenes, etc. - honestly feels more like Star Wars.
>>7842 By the way, this isn't a disease that befell just NuTrek, the constant f-bombing and the cursing is pretty much an eternal rule for television these days. Even SciFi shows like The Expanse or Westworld, which I actually like, do this shit.
>>7842 Yeah, I can see what you mean. Of course I don't mind when there is occasional conflict but yes, you put it well when you say the characters are "thoroughly unpleasant people". I also despise the constant shaky camera and lens flares. >>7843 True. I don't see this going away anytime soon either. I wonder what this means for kids who grow up watching this kind of television? What will be the repercussions for how we interact with each other 10 or 20 years down the line? Will kindness and authenticity become even more rare than it already is? I know I kind of sound like an old person grousing about kids/society these days when I say that. But I still can't help but wonder how much media will influence future generations, because of how much we live in fictional worlds now compared to past times.
>>7716 I really found that Cox is able to define Historical materialism in an understandable way and that his worldview makes a lot of sense today. I've heard that he's linked to neo-gramscian thought but not got too much into that yet. The contrast between dialectics and morality is interesting here. Could you not say that the 'issue' in TNG episodes were also moral (in the sense that they weren't usually resource based (or were they?)) I'm also curious as to the militaristic command structure of the federation. I mean the decision in Picard for the federation to abandon the Romulans and ban AI was straight up command. Does this imply that Earth of the future is authoritarian-communist? Were there not Pro-Romulan NGOs on Earth who would have fought this? Compare to our modern world system, which I'm not saying is any better. In our world, the World bank, ICC or the UN or whoever would not have declared the Romulans beyond saving outright, but would have designed policies and 'targets' that would have diverted resources from them under the guise of pangalactic solidarity.
>>5642 Star Trek TOS was actually pretty smart. TNG was boring and camp but still socialist and secular, Voyager was more boring and got especially bad near the end. Enterprise was lackluster and literally the only thing that made it watchable was that the vulcan girl was a literal model IRL and had tons of sex appeal. DS9 took out the cool philosophical ideas and and was just lowbrow sci-fi action series where religion was fucking real. Discovery was where they completely sold out to the capitalist property holders with no respect to the canon. I haven't watched Picard so IDK if it's even worse.
>>6997 It still makes zero sense that the major antagonistic empires all happen to be close to the Earth in terms of technology or even culture. There should be massive gaps of millions of years. Instead the Romulans were literally at the same development as the Federation, plus or minus a hundred years, with both sides firing primitive nuclear misses at each other in space.
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Don't you think France's "clear sky" is too grey/yellow in "Picard?" It doesn't even look like Earth anymore. What the fuck happened to the sun in the future?
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Also, why are there so many people in Picard's fields if the machines can water them in the future? I thought Star Trek is socialist, but we still need a lot of human pickers?
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Also, Paris looks worse in the future than it does today. This is dreadful...look at that traffic. They don't even have metroes in the future?
>>7904 >What the fuck happened A legion of vile VFX artists invaded Earth and used a vile weapon known as LUT to turn the world bloat yellow! This disaster went down in the history books as "the great colour correction". >>7907 The CGI in this shot is unironically awful. Can only imagine the harrowing experience that must have been working on this piece of shit.
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>>7908 Paris by law currently restricts the height of new buildings so the new ones won't tower over the old ones. I'm pretty sure future France wouldn't let them erect such ugly buildings that close to the Eiffel Tower. They look much worse than the mish-mash of new skyscrapers you see being built in Chinese cities like Beijing, but there's neither Shanghai's sense of playfulness at the Bund, nor any harmony in the style. You just feel sorry for the people who would have to live in 24th century Paris. They'd have been better to have not even bothered to show Paris and should have just left it up to your imagination. It's architectural vandalism. My theory is that capitalists took over Paris and abolished their society for preserving historical buildings, and threw up some cheap office buildings as replacements, but then brought back the society for preserving those "historical buildings." ...But least the promotions warned you that it was shot on yellow film stock.
>>7909 24th century Paris only looks like after after kurtzman retcon the federation from being post scarcity communism to bargain bin cyberpunk.
>>7907 >Tall buildings in the Centre of Paris The Dominion was right the Federation deserves destruction.
>>7916 >>7920 It's how liberals imagine the future, metal and glass monstrosities, with everyone having a flying car.
>>5711 TAS was great, even using scripts and plots they couldn't add in the show after it ended which is what made it so great Great story, but cheap animation Also most sources say it's all canon anyway
>>7904 >What the fuck happened to the sun in the future? we obscured it
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I've noticed the original series, animated, etc - essentially anything made by Gene Roddenberry, incorporated anthro ayyz, not just those freakshow humans. But then when TNG came around and everything after since Gene died, there have been literally 0 ayyz that resemble anything coherent that we've seen on Earth, or anything coherent at all really. Everything else has just been humans with wacky tumors and such What happened?
>>8157 Because it’s really hard to make a good anthro suit that can convey emotions with a tv show budget. The hydrolics to just move simple puppets and animatronics like Star Wars and Hellboy are expensive as all hell. So they apt for using rubber face humanoids with an explanation stolen right from the Strugatsky series in which they’re all made by a progenitor species. It’s sad that things like Species 8472, Xindi-Insectoid/Aquatic and the Dominion Changelings are not the norm but an exception to the rule. I wish Star Trek get to explore more alien life than just monoculture humanoid civilizations. The new series could just flesh out the already existing species and that would have been a huge improvement. Instead they went for shitty liberal cyberpunk shit.
>>8157 Gene was still part of TNG and the rest of Star Trek until his death you dolt. The Ferengi (for example) had to be approved by him.
>>8180 It’s just the contingent of the board’s furries acting up again. Them being the most active thread here for months.
>>8157 They should stop modeling aliens after humans tbh. I guess it was inevitable back then due to lack of technology. I'd like see some wacky aliens that don't resemble either humans or any other animals of earth. Qs specie was the most interesting to me cause they were so different from everybody else.
I'm still pissed about how unbelievably fucking bad Star Trek: Picard was. Star Trek is actually something I care about and seeing it's corpse raped by Kurtzman makes me sick. I was willing to give Kurtzman and his friends a second chance after Discovery, I was hoping that Patrick Stewart and the other TNG actors are not sell-outs and would exert some influence, but apparently they are, in the end, all elderly dumb actors that want to revive their old fame. I stayed with the first season to the very end, but the last two episodes really pushed me over the edge. What a fucking shitshow. The plot was completely ham-fisted and stolen from Mass Effect, pretty much the only thing Kurtzman can do is steal. The visions of the "admonition" are stock images off Google, the genocidal robots from the other dimension are from Matrix, the android themes are borrowed from Westworld which tackled the issue ten times better, the fucking Romulans lost every characteristic are are just evil humans now, Picard is a useless pussy that everybody hates, the Borg are useless pussies now that they are brought down by a literal flower, everybody swears all the time and is stingy, there is a magical repair device that just does what you think (!), Seven of Nine is a lesbian psychopath now, and the worst thing ever: They made Picard a robot but a malfunctioning one that emulates a feeble old man that will eventually die - and Picard endorses that of course. Jesus fucking Christ. Also, do they realise that they made a case against synthetic life, considering Soji was almost ending all life in the galaxy?? This is the absolute worst and the people who made this are incompetent, uncreative, toxic and lazy idiots. Phrases actually uttered by characters in Picard: >ass-deep in Romulan space >it's the abusive Romulan boyfriend >I love you Data >shut the fuck up Picard/J.L. (4×) This isn't Jean-Luc Picard, this is J.L. Picard. Excited in a masochist way for season two, maybe we get to see robot Picard having gay sex with Q or something after which he says "that was the greatest fuck I've had my entire fucking life". Buckle up, the Kurtzman train is rolling, three more ST shows are already in the oven
>>8201 >I was hoping that Patrick Stewart and the other TNG actors are not sell-outs and would exert some influence, but apparently they are Lmao do you remember Star Trek Nemesis? That was pushed by Stewart. I had no hope for him ever since the Emoji Movie. >Buckle up, the Kurtzman train is rolling, three more ST shows are already in the oven <Implying Discovery was already the last straw for the series. It’s already dead. At least I still have my Soviet Star Trek - like Noon series to finish reading. I basically given up on any sci-fi from the western sphere by this point. It’s going to be fucked by Hollywood later so what’s the point even hoping. Stranger Things season 2 taught me that. >>8190 Most Normies still don’t get the point of having aliens is that they’re completely alien to us in shape and mind. They’ll get confused when they can’t empathize with the ayys.
>>8190 >They should stop modeling aliens after humans tbh. The truth is that an hypothetical e.t. species would be functionally similar to us.
>>8204 *superior intelligent species
>>8203 >At least I still have my Soviet Star Trek - like Noon series to finish reading. I basically given up on any sci-fi from the western sphere by this point. The Expanse is decent. I know it's gonna be Hollywood kitsch no matter what, but even from the mainstream producers that could potentially produce Star Trek Kurtzman is absolutely the fucking worst. I think the guys who make "Electric Dream" could make a good ST show, don't know.
>>8204 Upright and bipedal at least, but humans with tumors and skin cancer? Idk why this was ever even a thing
>>8209 Don't be so uptight. In many cases, aliens were just surrogates for human cultures/social problems. 90% of TOS and TNG was either meeting gods, or aliens that resembled some problem that humans had to deal with in the past, which they now have overcome, but now had to be confronted with it again which makes the entire charms of the series because the humans are the actual "aliens" to the viewer because they still live under the absurdities of capitalism, whereas he or she recognises in the alien their own predicament. There is another reason, episodes with non-humanoid aliens have been widely regarded as the worst episodes, because it's always some non-corporal entity that takes over the crew or the ship. Basically ghost stories.
Have you seen this? This is mental. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giXZHIOnjm8
>>8204 True but their similarities would be superficial at best. >a mean of communication >strong manipulators for tool use >good memory and a big brain >omnivorous or carnivorous to better utilize food sources The rest is up to the conditions of the planet they inhabit. >>8209 Would aliens be bipeds? Why can’t a species like Birrin be possible?
Man, I forgot how weird and sometimes sexual the mirror universe was. Watching the first mirror universe episode of DS9, and damn does it get selfcesty at times.
>>8221 That's because Kira is one of the most beautiful woman whoever been on screen. Generally, the mirror universe storyline in DS9 is usually considered a lackluster.
>>8188 Idiots. I was the guy who made the TG/TF post but I still think this kind of shit is stupid for fetish reasons. >>8190 >I'd like see some wacky aliens that don't resemble either humans or any other animals of earth Star Trek had that several times, however they're limited in interaction due to the issues of communication.
>>8317 Which posts did you make?
>>8326 I was referring to the TG TF I mentioned in >>6153 >>6154 >>6182 >>6193
>>8352 So then, you aren't for lyrans, or caitians in this case, being in Star Trek live action?
Unbelievable that the guy who started the discussion "hurr why can't they have less anthropromorphic aliens" secretly just wanted to push furry shit. Please don't be like that.
>>8378 What are you talking about?
>>8355 I am all for it, but only if it's relevant to the story and world-building, and not just "haha random alien reference guyz!" like Abrams did in his movies. >>8378 >>8380 Keep furry arguments to the furry thread pls.
>>8388 I mean, you say you're for it... then go and say you aren't for the arguments that are for it It's flattering seeing the images I edited on here though, how I found this place. Really solid posts from months ago.
>>8391 >say you aren't for the arguments that are for it Nigga read what I wrote in the TF thread. The idea of having a plot-related change or focus on an anthro alien can be implimented if done thoughtfully and not just "Hurr alien fur-fag XD" >flattering seeing the images I edited Do you mean the M'ress edit? Are you from the /trash/ Space Kat threads?!
>>8395 Well the images I've seen ITT were from /tv/ threads But the spess ket threads are very nice. Probably the best threads on that site Well judging by your answer I see you've been there heh
>>8157 Human-like people already genocided almost all strange species. The secret the federation doesn't want you to know.
Okay after a shit ton of reservations against watching it, I finally spend some of my boring time in isolation to watch Picard and my fucking god the retconings of older series was truly something to behold. Now for some inexplicable reason the Borg wifi can be affected by powerful mindfething stuff... and this was from the memory of an assimilation victim. The Borg had to disconnect a Cube to prevent the terrible memory from spreading. Its akin to cutting off an infected... and the Borg don't do it normally. So damn peak liberal in its unapologetic “mind over matter”, “muh individuality”. It’s beyond parody. Also what’s with the shitty attemp at trying to copying Mass Effect secret organization shit with the Zhat Vash predating the Tal Shiar who happens to be the mask for said group? It’s so haphazardly slapped on to the point of looking like a shitty ME parody at times. The writing of ME Andromeda is Nebula awards level compared to this.
>>8635 You've watched the finale? I think the finale was the worst shit I've ever seen that one could be doing with such a budget.
Am I the only one who thinks VOY doesn't deserve it's bad rep? It's basically TNG 2.0 and the best episodes can easily keep up with the best TNG episodes and I think its best characters too. The only reason to be upset at VOY is that it's playing it completely safe and doesn't get experimental like DS9.
>>8655 I’m still having ptsds from that. Fucking hell, if Kurtzman wanted to make an ME show about the Geth he should’ve done so and not shit all over ST like this.
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Ayy so when will they do caitians right in live action?
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>>8656 Nope, same here, and a few others in the thread. >>8796 Never because >>6153 >The reason we won't see sexy space cats is the same reason they don't get anything else right. Sexy space cats aren't safe (anymore) >>8408 Sorry, late reply: yeah I'm from those threads, a few people here are actually. >>8635 >>8201 A good overview on the issues of Picard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsmqcLv8Q-4
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>>8799 'Never' is a pretty big word though Like saying society and people never change, while they are constantly
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>>7920 We already have tall buildings in Paris.
>>8801 >pretty big word though Never in the sense that we likely won't see it done in the next couple of decades outside of fan-work. >pic reminds me of that old fanart of M'Ress straight up murdering a Yautja >>8807 I fucking love how "tall buildings" in Europe are medium-small sized compared to sky-scraper behemoths all over US cities. This is why I like Europe. They don't go totally nuts with the new buildings.
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>>8809 >M'Ress straight up murdering a Yautja oof, do you have such a pic?
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>>8811 Aye, See pic 1 >>8799 >>8201 Speaking of Data this is his last (non-CGI) portrayal since Spiner is done portraying him and thus that is why his "daughters" were made, tying up the loose ends of TNG and Nemesis (loose ends that I rather doubt people wanted answers to). - https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-brent-spiner-done-playing-data/ - https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-picard-data-what-happened-data/ - https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-brent-spiner-talks-picard-finale/ I feel like his 'praise' is more of a "yes, yes everything is fine, bye now" so that he doesn't have to go over the role again >>8201 >Seven of Nine is a lesbian psychopath That and the other forced diversity rubbish is being praised as putting Picard into the 21st century! An ironic statement considering the far-future of the original TNG and its ideological themes... I miss the quiet yet genuine erotica of lesbian relations in older Trek series (pic 2). The worst part is that Picard is declared as 'fixing' this, because subtle show-don't-tell in a television series is BAD because it doesn't have blatantly forced exposition about "muh lesbian feels!"... which is even stupider considering the character os Seven-of-Nine in the first place making her an implied bi-sexual. DS9 spent 6 episodes exploring this alt-universe with downright slash-fic scenes, but apparently that's not enough to get a "gay-approved" stamp. It's like with the "gay Spock" shit, because 'the (new) actor is gay, so is the character'... 'cause fuck people having real identities. - https://www.cbr.com/picard-lgbt-romance-star-trek-21st-century/ - https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a31957723/star-trek-picard-seven-nine-lgbtq/ And of course Discovery's hamfisted insert about gay marriage is also paraded as some great step... simultaneously criticized for the downright asinine reason of "bury your gays", a trope that has specific context. The fact that people are obsessing over a character's onscreen sexuality over the actual character is honestly almost as bad as waifu-fags. This is why I prefer The Orville, they cover gay, bisexual, lesbian and trans relationships (as well as things like cheating and polyamory) in a comedic light most of the time, but also manage to provide serious discussions and thought on the topic, especially with the character Bortus and his family. It's important to the plot, yet does not dominate the character's identity. Ironically there is popularity for Seven-of-Nine being a futanari (spoilered pic 3), explainable due to the Borg tendency to integrate parts of other species, which would (possibly) include being hermaphroditic, something left unexplored by Star Trek. Unfortunately logic is swept under the rug for the much louder cries of >NO, IT DOESN'T COUNT IF IT WAS GROUNDBREAKING BACK THEN, IT HAS TO CONFORM TO MY RAD-LIB STANDARDS OF EQUALITY TODAY! FUCK THE STORY YOU CIS-GENDER HETERO-KIN!!! Whatever, fuck nu-trek, fuck diversity pandering, they should just tell a proper story and not spew identity politics for no reason, because if sexuality is such a big part of your identity, you have no personality. PS: The new haircut for Seven-of-Nine is ironically regressive compared to the short-hair she originally had. (not to mention the pointless curls. The new actress is also one of 'those' actresses who have the same prissy face and attitude, which is already irritating as it is, but also - considering the original actress for the character being played - clashes horribly with the stoic yet beautiful face from before.
>>8832 noice danke beautiful
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>>8807 pic 1 related >>8832 >one of 'those' actresses who have the same prissy face and attitude I realized I may have to clarify this point. What I mean by this is the actress both by her looks, her voice and her manner of speaking, SCREAMS "angsty young adult SI" echoing back to passive aggressive teen flicks from the mid 2010s (like Insurgent). You see the same shit in Brie cheese Larson, you see it in Dark Fats genderbent John Conner ripoff and every other garbage movie and series from the past 5-7 years; neither old or tough enough to emulate a cool independent woman like Ellen Ripley, nor young and natural enough to be someone like Buffy. It's full of this stuffy, falseness a lot of characters (and people IRL) have in America. Even the Barbie-doll attitude of 80s housewives wasn't this plastic. >Inb4 she's a borg She's not unnatural like a borg, but like a bad actor. Seven of Nine is characterized by her stoic behavior and her attempts to, like Data, integrate with human and alien counterparts better, not act like someone who never grew up from being a snooty college girl. >>8811 BTW, Sauce on that reaction pic?
pls make a containment thread for the furry shit
>>8157 For one, some of those alien designs on the right were likely approved by roddenberry. Another thing to note is that back in the time of TOS they couldn't do the makeup work that was possible by the time of TNG so many aliens are just people in costumes or painted a different color, or almost exactly like humans. TAS was an animated series which made possible most any alien race they wanted to make possible since you just need to draw it instead of using make-up, allowing for more animalistic species. By TNG they could do more with the makeup though not enough to make them really different, so they were almost all different variants of humans. While I'm not personally a fan of "humans with a bunch of shit on their heads" designs TNG and later went for it made sense since many societies variations of human societies, leaving focus the moral/philosophical questions that are more like humans instead of the focus being on "How does a race of large slug people live" or something like that. In other words if they point of the episode was something like devil in the dark from TOS it'd involve an alien very different from humanoid species because thats what the focus is about, encountering a life form functionally different from our own. But if the episode was about ethics during a time of war it'd make sense for the aliens in question to be very similar to humans since the episode's focus is something possible for humans or a moral/ethical exploration humans could understand. I might be thinking too much into this but it's easier to use what are basically humans for concepts applicable to humans since that is the focus.
>>8857 Contain yourself
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>>8853 Well the character is Megumi from Crash Team Racing: Nitro Fueled I believe I got the pic from the /vg/ thread on 4chan
I miss real star trek
>>8932 I recently watched ENT and I wonder why it's such a slog to watch. They basically have the right ingrediences, the have the hold writers, a somewhat okay-ish crew, and a decent setup as a prequel series, and we get to see all the first contacts they made with species we all know too well, like with the Romulan Star Empire. We also get to see how the Federation was formed, how the Prime Directive came into being, etc. In my view, some of the bad elements that trouble NuTrek are already visible to a degree, the less of a focus on ethical/philosophical dilemmas and the over-reliance on nostalgia (it isn't surprising that most of ENT's best episodes are the ones that are references/hommages to past installments), but it was largely contained. I think they just never knew where to take the show. The Vulcan stuff was good, because it made sense, as the Vulcans were the first aliens humans ever had relations with. But I think the first contact episodes with Klingons and Romulans were largely botched, the whole show didn't really feel like it explored much, the Xindi storyline was pretty generic, etc. - if they started serialized arc about the Terran-Romulan War in season 5 it could have been saved.
Star Trek is shit compared to Star Wars
>>8940 >first good movie <hey, rescue this princess, those are the bad guys, this is actually a fantasy story just... in space! you're a white hat you're a black hat <also, we have John Williams >second good movie <so we are going a little bit grimdark, just a little <heh, so that guy was your father all along huh? bet ya'll didn't see that coming! >rest of the movies is utter shit >reboot, being even more shit
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>>8947 Star Wars is weird. Basically all of its primary material is trash or overrated meh films, however all of the auxiliary stuff really carries it out.
>>8947 >>8948 You’re just jealous that girls don’t touch your penis when they see your captain kirk figure
>>8940 Star Wars is cringe breh Mandalorian is a least interesting
>>8959 >Star Wars is cringe Star Trek is idpol
>>8960 Star Trek was pretty anti-IdPol. They were inclusive, like they had blacks, women, aliens, androids, etc. but none of them had any privilege, they were all equal.
>>8965 This is the essence of idpol, the future will be racist as fuck and every woman will get her ass spanked until she sucks off the captain in his quarters And she’ll be the secretary too
>>8960 Cringe
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>>8965 >>8966 >include a Black woman on a sci-fi TV show about a spaceship >she still has to answer the phone
>>5643 I dunno, I liked the mirror universe episodes and Lorca
>>8986 There is also a scene where Abe Lincoln calls her a negress and she doesn't even take offense because she literally can not comprehend racism similarly to how a modern person could not comprehend being called a "heathen" or "heretic" - this is proper dialectical sublation. NuTrek would have had her kick his arse because yas queen slay
>>8993 Lorca started off promising but to make him the evil guy was not built up properly. He's been shown to be as somewhat ruthless and not being "your typical Starfleet captain", they did this already with Sisko so this isn't a big of an issue. The problem was that we suddenly are supposed to hate him after we just wanted up to his character, all because the Empress happens to be an Asian female, so it doesn't fucking matter that she is literally worse than Hitler (she was seen eradicating entire planets and eating the embryos of a sentinent species) whereas we seen Lorca doing nothing of this shit. The mirror universe is so comically cartoonish, it works for tounge-in-cheek episodes like in TOS or ENT but not for serious storylines as they tried to establish for DS9 and STD.
>>8986 well, answering the phone was still the most important task in stos
>>8986 >she still has to answer the phone You mean like many modern men do on military ships today? Being a phone operator isn't a bad thing and even if related to "women" what's the issue exactly? >>8994 That was honestly one of the most interesting scenes, I broke out into clapping when seeing that, just because I was so relieved there wasn't going to be the "yasqueen slay" bullshit and instead approached the situation realistically and intelligently. >>8995 >>8993 Interestingly Lorca commanded the ISS Buran... clearly a reference to the Buran Space Shuttle. Lorca is also clearly a revolutionary, considering his attitude against the Emperor. They try to depict him as seeking power, but frankly I sense that, were the show to follow a logical flow, he would turn out to be ideologically Marxist-Leninist.... but of course they had to flanderize him into the villain.
>>8994 >because yas queen slay pol headcanon
>>9600 >Everyone is /pol/ because shitty liberal caricatures of strong women make pp hard Fuck off >>9001 Kek, unironically true.
>>8986 Roddenberry wanted to be more subversive but there's a lot of traditionalist shit shoehorned into early trek especially TOS. Compare the treatment of gender and gender roles in The Cage to the rest of TOS and even the series as a whole. The antagonists are completely androgynous and the writing takes a bunch of shots at sexism. Captain Pike specifically is portrayed as having his heart in the right place but still being ignorant and insensitive to the women in his crew.
>>9604 I agree mostly however > traditionalist shit shoehorned in 1) Its not really shoehorned in, they're a crew and crews have to follow orders and stick to doing their jobs which cn include being a phoe operator (not an easy job). - t.crewworker 2) tradition is not automatically bad. Changing things for the sake of changing things is idiotic.
>>9626 Lots of idpol, smarmy asshole white-men caricatures and retcons all slathered in CGI. Or as >>9600 seems to think "pol headcanon" >>8959 >>8960 >>8974 Can we delete pointless1-3 word shitposts like this?
>>9626 Ironically this might be harder to fuck up, because Pike was received as one of the more tolerable characters, I guess nobody cared about Spook but he wasn't an annoyance like the other dumb characters. But remember it's the same guys who wrote Picard: Chabon made Picard a robot, Seven of Nine a mercenary kicking corpses off platforms, copied the plot of Mass Effect 3, and used stock footage. There is no way I trust these idiots to write a coherent story or even design a Star Trek set properly (not making everything blink and hectic and dark and shaky cam).
>>6047 >The Orville sounds great, but where can I watch for free, I’m not gonna pay Hulu shit
>>9713 Plinkett annoys the shit out of me because he sometimes says stupid shit unironically, rather than comedically like Critical Drinker or Mauler, but I'll give him a try here. >>9762 watchseries.is or any other similar site https://watch-series.co/series/the-orville-season-01/season Hook it up to HDMI and roll.
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>>9764 >>6047 >very first scene is the protagonist's wife getting BLACKED BLUED bruh >this is the focus of the first episode, and it comes with retarded/sexist conclusions about cheating I went in knowing this was a Seth MacFarlane show so my expectations were already low but holy fuck.
>>9772 >bruh <oh wow a modern american show has cheating in it How is this surprising. It's not even unrealistic FFS >retarded/sexist conclusions about cheating Fucking how? They conclude that people can make their own decisions but also have to live with the consequences. Nowhere is a persons sex come into this. The "girls/women" complaint is mocked throughout the show Also >judging a show by a pilot episode Are you daft laddy?
>>9764 Watched the first two episodes, it’s pretty light hearted and comedic (what did I expect from McFarland) but the humor is very funny, and the characters are well developed and the plot is nice. Considering the shity state of things right now it’s nice to watch something optimistic for a change. If someone likes McFarland's humor they will probably like it. If not it doesn’t seem like this is for them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RdU51fKc_4
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The plinkett review of Picard had a nice compilation at the end, but he ruined it to make a point about how edgy nutrek is. I tried to make it better.
>>9818 heh, nice work anon
>>7712 >>7693 >"You know what I did this morning? I played the voice of a toy. Some terrible robot toys from Japan that changed from one thing to another. The Japanese have funded a full-length animated cartoon about the doings of these toys, which is all bad outer-space stuff. I play a planet. I menace somebody called Something-or-other. Then I'm destroyed. My plan to destroy Whoever-it-is is thwarted and I tear myself apart on the screen." -Orson Welles, 1985
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You may have seen this on the chans Not exactly "trek" related but sci-fi enough on the topic of aliens This is a picture showing off just about every kind of alien humanity really believes exists irl. https://www.strawpoll.me/20225795 Was curious to know what bunkerchan believes is out there You could pick more than one on this poll btw
>>10094 On the subject about aliens. I also came across this straight up communist species of ayys project. Behold The Planters! https://specevo.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=393&st=30 The evolved on a used to be ocean now desert planet where with insane gender dimorphism where the male is the equivalent of plants and the female is the equivalent of animals. They don’t possess the concept of private property due to the harsh conditions of their planet. Their main ideology are the equivalent of anarcho syndicalism, Maoism and Marxist-Leninism.
>>10098 >male is the equivalent of plants and the female is the equivalent of animals Sounds like some (third-wave) feminist propaganda... or a floraphile's wet-dream... Still and interesting concept. >anarcho syndicalism, Maoism and Marxist-Leninism. The last two make sense, but how would that work with literal anarchism? Also the female looks distinctly like an alien I drew as a child in my notebook during school, maybe some kid in class stole my idea. >>10094 Cool stuff >>9839 Citation? Though I don't doubt it is likely a real sentiment of Orson Welles'
>>10186 Nah, the creator seems not that much even into the political scene as his knowledge in the subject is pretty limited. Some tidbits about the Planters politics: Cascade >Despite being a country made through warfare, Cascade is one of the most peaceful of the current superpowers of Tungsten Heart. Two hundred years prior to modern times, the first Cascadians, two medium sized nations that had been rivals, joined together in an alliance and forcibly annexed or pushed out any other nation living around the Cascade Sea. Those who resisted often ended up giving up the futile attempt after seeing how well the annexed subjects were treated- the Cascadians’ terms were generous towards those they conquered, and anyone who embraced their government became full members of the country. The remaining dissidents were eventually defeated and those not killed fled across the lands, mostly ending up as refugees in the Fountain Bloc. >Compared to other Planter countries, Cascade is very centralized and has a government based around delegation of duties- meaning they have roles reminiscent of what humans would call governors, mayors, or other such things. Many Planter ideologies see the idea of one Planter having some form of authority over others as downright tyrannical, but as Planter countries grow in size and population, many are finding such practices to be required for stable, united countries to exist. >Cascadians, while accepting such ideas as delegated leadership, are still very communal and group-based in their way of thinking. Groups of Cascadians who are close with each other will often share a group name and introduce themselves as such, often living out their entire lives within arm’s distance of each other and sharing a place of residence. Fountain Bloc >Fountain is an alliance of conglomerated smaller states that follow a consensus-based method of governance, where they try to follow the will of the majority of the people, with big issues voted on directly. Most Planter nations hold no value in societal constructs such as written concrete laws and prefer to handle transgressions on a case-by-case basis. Humans may find this to be a risky move with mob-justice running rampant, but Planters have an extremely low rate of infighting and domestic crime, so it is generally a non-issue. >Consensus-based governance does have its issues, however. Compared to a country like Cascade, the Fountainites can be sluggish in rallying their people behind common causes. They may find issues in responding to natural disasters or other crises such as outbreaks. >The Fountainites and Cascadians have had a long-running rivalry since the unification wars in Cascade due to the Fountainites supporting the anti-unification factions of old Cascade. Since Cascade was unified, the Fountainites have been in a semi-cold war with occasional skirmishes between their militaries and various proxy wars, mostly involving the Central Bulwark nations and the people living around Buffer Lake and the Basin. Path Confederation >Path’s form of governance is somewhere between Fountain and Cascade’s, with some regional delegated leadership but no centralized federal leadership. >While Fountain and Cascade are locked in a continuous conflict with each other, the people of Path are in a constant war against the smaller nations of the Turbid Zone and the Savanna Bulwark.
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>>10094 I'm really the only one who picked B, E and H? Have some imagination, guys. We have no fucking idea what's out there. Space is immense beyond our comprehension, the possibilities are almost infinite. What is unfortunate is that humanity will probably never know. Think of how extraordinary any alien that was able to physically come into contact with humanity would be. They would have to not only posses the intelligence required to traverse such large distances of space, which by itself is so inhuman (space is VERY anti-human) and a feat that may only exist as fiction to us until our extinction, but they would also have to be remarkably lucky, or with technology so advanced that their scanning sensors make them nearly omnipotent with how well they can detect things across the enormity of space. They would then have to happen across us at the right time. Humans have only been on this planet for 1/20000th of its existence, and have only been civilized for 1/500000th of it. A species that incredible would have to be something like the Q, without the wit and charm, probably more indifferent to us than anything. We would be like amoeba to them, or perhaps a human mind would go mad trying to comprehend any communication with them. So it will probably never happen, and we will never have qt tesseract-headed quasar alien waifus.
>>10094 The answer is G at least for the Milky Way, if it wasn’t they would likely parked a spaceship on Earth by now.
>>10205 >they would likely parked a spaceship on Earth by now. What makes you arrive at the conclusion that this possibility is high, considering the math in this post >>10195? Also your statement assumes that the only (sentient?) beings that exist in the Milky Way are ones that are capable of traveling to anywhere within the Milly Way. It's a false assumption, because humanity would be an exception.
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>>10195 I went for ACD. H is sort of co-out which is why I didn't go with it and B is a bit cliche'd not to mention grey aliens are relatively humanoid. >beyond our comprehension, the possibilities are almost infinite. Well not quite infinite, however very high in terms of variability. Star Trek explored a lot of ideas in terms of alternate life, like a giant cloud of anti-matter being conscious, or crystalline and energy-based beings. >>10205 >would likely parked a spaceship on Earth by now Who's to say they haven't? X-Files may have been fiction but it certainly posed some real possibilities. And besides as >>10206 said, there is evidence of planets capable of supporting life in the Milky Way easily, its just that we don't know any more because probes have to be sent to confirm... Venus might have life, but little is known about that because of the density of the atmosphere and its likely non-sentient. https://www.rt.com/news/alien-life-on-venus-485/ >>10192 A cool concept but not worth much until you can put it into some literature, rather than a dry description.
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Reminder that Star Trek has Posadist themes >Eugenics Wars involve nuclear exchange >discovering warp drive leads to contact with ayy lmaos >dolphins are part of the starship crew >In the midst of the worldwide worker and student uprisings in 1968, the Argentine Trotskyist leader known as J. Posadas wrote an essay proposing solidarity between the working class and the alien visitors. He argued that their technological advancement indicated they would be socialists and could deliver us the technology to free Earth from the grip of Yankee imperialism and the bureaucratic workers’ states. >Such views were less fringe and more influential than you might think. Beginning in 1966, the plot of “Star Trek” closely followed Posadas’s propositions. After a nuclear third world war (which Posadas also believed would lead to socialist revolution), Vulcan aliens visit Earth, welcoming them into a galactic federation and delivering replicator technology that would abolish scarcity. Humans soon unify as a species, formally abolishing money and all hierarchies of race, gender and class. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/opinion/make-it-so-star-trek-and-its-debt-to-revolutionary-socialism.html (http://archive.li/pQjLH) https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/ufos-dolphins-nuclear-war-and-communism-the-stranger-than-sci-fi-political-party Star Trek had repeated mentions and concept art of Dolphin Ops, taking inspiration from various sources such as Gunbuster. https://forgottentrek.com/where-do-i-find-the-dolphins/ Unfortunately, they never actually appear in the show due to budgetary restraints, but in a couple of episodes you can see a sign on a door indicating Cetacean Ops (cleverly utilizing the scientific genus for the label). Also the plot of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home centers around time travel to save the whales, who are the only ones that can understand an alien probe. This conceptualization of dolphin-human relations is predated by other 60s concepts with Dolphin scientists, for example Larry Niven's WORLD OF PTAVVS (1965). Ironically Larry Kniven's Kzinti (anthro-feline aliens) were integrated into the Star Trek verse as distant cousins of the Caitians, similar to how the Romulans relate to the Vulcans. The novelized idea of the intelligence of whales appeared prominently in "The Deep Range," a 1954 short story expanded into 1957 novel THE DEEP RANGE, by Arthur C Clark, exanded further with his following novel, Dolphin Island. This was around the time John C Lilly began his famed experiments in Delphine intelligence (something that lended itself to the creation of shows like Flipper and SeaQuest coming out). In 1987 Doug Michels of the architecture colabo Ant Farm worked on a human/dolphin space station concept called Bluestar. https://greg.org/archive/2010/06/01/cue-the-dolphin-embassy.html A more recent sentient-dolphin/whale fic from 2003, is Fluke by Christopher Moore... a very interesting book of rather interesting concepts and good humor. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33441.Fluke Of course it would be lax to omit the beloved Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy and their hyper-intelligent dolphins: https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Dolphins Back to Star Trek; It was Niven's work which clearly inspired Rick Sternbach who in 1985 illustrated the reprint of Ptavvs and 2 years later was the Senior illustrator and technical consultant of TNG. In 1996 He would be the lead author of the TNG Blueprints release. Interestingly this biped-aquatic relationship is shared even more closely by an alien civilization, the Xindi. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Xindi-Aquatic Now, considering how much nostalgia-baiting and dead-horse-beating and other rubbish plagueing Discovery and Picard, an interesting idea would be to have Dolphin Trek, at least an episode which is entirely from the perspective of the Cetacean Ops crew. Perhaps even describe Dolphin-Human or Dolphin-alien interactions; friendships, differences, relationships etc. Of course this is unlikely to occur for the same reason cat-grills won't (see >>6153).
>>10208 >A cool concept but not worth much until you can put it into some literature, rather than a dry description. Wonder what happened to the anon with the Last Revolution world building thread back on /leftypol/. That was some good fun. >>10195 I think most aliens would just be wildly different but also extremely similar in that they would also gaze up into to stars to wonder what’s out there just to be stuck on their planets or wipe themselves out with the greatest filter of all that is capitalism.
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Apparently, according to the Galaxy class deck blueprints, as shown on Memory Alpha, Deck 36 houses a "Droid Maintenance" room. A series of convention notes from Rick Sternbach's panel at AnimeCon '91 also mentions it: Going into the bowels of the ship, you will eventually find a door marked DROID MAINTENANCE... The Constitution class Enterprise NCC-1701 did have DOT-7 droids which deployed through portholes in the hull to conduct underway hull maintenance. These have been mentioned in several comic books however we did not see them on screen until Star Trek: Discovery Such Sweet Sorrow. This detail is one of the few good ones introduced by Dscovery, although it is clear they ripped off the designs and scene from The astro-droid repair scene in Phantom Menace. Pic related is the aforementioned scene featuring DOT-7 Droids performing maintenance. Pic 2 is the Phantom Menace scene. NCC-1701-D was a self-cleaning ship which likely used robots but they were never seen. According to First Officer Riker: - BRENNA: Men! Always talking when there's work to be done. And shouldn't you be flying this ship, or whatever it is you do? - RIKER: Sir, I think I'll stay and give her some help. (Picard and Worf leave. Riker goes to where Brenna is using hay to clean up what animals leave lying around naturally) - RIKER: That isn't necessary. The ship will clean itself. - BRENNA: Well, good for the bloody ship. (long pause as she appraises him) Tell me, Commander Riker, where does a girl go to wash her feet on this ship? Droids have rarely been featured on screen, and like most custodial workers they simply conduct their maintenance after the work day is done so they don’t disrupt the crew. Sources: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Galaxy_class_decks http://stng.36el.com/st-tng/trivia/convention_notes.html https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/DOT-7
>>10208 nice pic japan seems so obsessed with their zeta greys with inches of makeup
>>10206 >beings that exist in the Milky Way are ones that are capable of traveling to anywhere within the Milly Way. for an advanced civilization sending a probe to different stars isn’t hard, just time consuming, and they would have all the time in the world.
>>10240 >for an advanced civilization This is assuming they are advanced though, nobody said the life in the Milky-Way HAD to be space-faring or even borderline space exploring like us. Hell even non-sentient life counts. H - covers anything including bacterial colonies and space-animals or plants E - covers downright celestial entities that we may not recognize as life-forms and may in turn not recognize us as life-forms or bother visiting us A/B/C all assumes highly advanced aliens which would likely have ways of reaching and discretely surveying this planet F - is Event Horizon 2.0 D - assumes similar to A,B and C or on the other hand assumes something like our current humanity, where proper probes are barely reaching the rims of our solar system. Our sheer lack of intimate knowledge of our own Solar System (let alone the entire Milky Way) allows for anything outside of G quite easily. >inb4 G specifying intelligent life Intelligent =/= sentient. >>10233 Yeah their Roswell grays are something unique.
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(A Reposted Edited Compilation) I'm tired of arguing with imbeciles that think any product of capitalism = a capitalist product. Writers are artists, and artists can express dissent within the system they inhabit. Some of you might be inclined to accuse of letting consumerism blend into ideology, but I think it's important to understand the sheer importance of fiction as a means of ideology. Like a lot of kids from the late 90s-2000's I used to watch Star Trek: Next Generation's old re-runs on the syndicated channels that would run it throughout the night. I used to spend every other week at my more comfortable grandparent's home out in the country because my mother couldn't afford to feed me 2 weeks in a row (I'm not saying this for any measure of sympathy, but for context on how NextGen helped create a system of values that appealed to my situation). One of the things that struck me about TNG is the honesty, openness, and trust with which the Enterprise is run. There is no reason to be selfish, so people are just not selfish. And also everyone has their role, and even though there is a hierarchy, nobody is treated as a lesser. The conflicts between the characters tend to be very non-toxic. An example (rather overhated in the fandom) is Wesley Crusher, a cuteboy genius but he never really rubs it on anyone's face. When he took the test for the academy in season 1, the whole thing was very non-competitive. So much so that he ends up helping the blue waffle alien win. I could go on for a while about what was special about NextGen, but to save time I'll just say it's one of the reasons I became interested in Marx, Lenin and the rest, it was useful. Obviously after the mental deterioration of actual-communist Gene Roddenberry and the network coup under Rick Berman, the franchise declined back into precisely what it was a critique of: Last Man Visions of the Future. Nowhere is this more evident than modern trek: a thinly disguised action-series that falls for every trope, implies the existence of money in a post-scarcity earth, and the use of an underclass of slave androids that were proved sentient back in NextGen. It's the vision of a future that only progresses insofar that it achieves a flashier setting, but human society and culture remains as barbaric and retarded as before. like a typical cyberpunk series. Star Trek originally was one of the few things to come out of Western popular culture that rejected TINA (There Is No Alternative) and futurist 'capitalist realism' themes. The genuine curiosity of the characters, the commitment to life, to science, to friendship, display truly liberated humans, who achieve this and yet retain their humanity. Sadly shows with this kind of vision of the future are always an outlier and often hobbled by the problems of going against the current. Television is the art form that functions most like the factory, or perhaps the office, it's not very surprising that it would tend toward capitalist propaganda naturally. And the longer a franchise goes on the higher the likelihood of it reverting to the mean. Moreover the original TOS posed itself with Federation vs the Klingon which was an allusion to the USA and USSR. There's also the reason Star Trek flourished during the darkest years of the Cold War and neoliberalism. It presents the idea of a peaceful, post-scarcity utopia without considering how it came to be. Because Star Trek conspicuously leaves out the most important idea of Marx: the idea of the proletariat as the revolutionary subject of modern history. Without this, any 'radical' message the shows could offer is sufficiently defused and it's permissible to show on network television. Of course given the futurism it is clearly not going to be set in revolutionary or immediate-post-revolutionary times, however this is still a major reason why the parallels to communism are not immediate in many people's minds. In-universe, they abolished the Law of Value by abolishing labor as the source of all value through replicators, obviously a bit different from our reality, which is why Star Trek was never revolutionary but it was definitely progressive. Clearly Trek is lost to the ghoulish pinheads that don't give a damn about a vision for human achievement, because they don't get any schmeckels. The point is, that shows like Star Trek are important to help people envision a future that isn't just a flashier, spacier, capitalism, but rather to face that history moves in stages, and that by no means should this be our final vision for the collective project we all share. Regardless of how actually productive it is; Fiction has demonstrated that it's one of the best vehicles for ideological conversion, so what fictional narratives are like OldTrek and have the potential to inspire on the same level? How do we create narratives that are popular enough to shatter the Last Man vision of the future? These are the questions we must ask when we create media that is ideologically vetted and must be created while focusing on values, freedom, self-fulfillment and other positive growth instead of NuTrek "lol im gay in space" liberalism that the new creators seem adamant at pushing. However We should not be sad Trek has been put in the ground, but be glad it happened at all and carry its messages in our hearts and minds. As to sources of new visions, turn to books or other arts with low capital intensity. Less capitalist incentives, higher chance of intelligent outliers. PS. >Last Man Visions of the Future What does "Last Man visions of the future" mean? It is the concept of mankind being able to envision society advancing in technology, but practically everything else remains the same, and the Liberal Capitalist Democracy is the final structure of human society. When you really go back to classic Western sci-fi you read, almost all of them imagine wild futures with awesome technology and completely alien future cultures. And yet for some inexplicable reason neoliberal capitalism still remains as the only way forward. Take this one shitty story for example. Biological immortality and world peace has been achieved, improbable FLT tech allows everyone to travel the stars, and scarcity is a thing of the past. But somehow all of this started with neoliberal capitalism making everything better with author fiats. https://robinhanson.typepad.com/files/three-worlds-collide.pdf >Akon's eyes slid away from the hot gaze of the unmixed man; there was something wrong about the thread of anger still there in the memory after five hundred years. >"But time passed," the Confessor said, "time moved forward, and things changed." The eyes were no longer focused on Akon, looking now at something far away. "There was an old saying, to the effect that while someone with a single bee sting will pay much for a remedy, to someone with five bee stings, removing just one sting seems less attractive. That was humanity in the ancient days. There was so much wrong with the world that the small resources of altruism were splintered among ten thousand urgent charities, and none of it ever seemed to go anywhere. And yet... and yet..." >"There was a threshold crossed somewhere," said the Confessor, "without a single apocalypse to mark it. Fewer wars. Less starvation. Better technology. The economy kept growing. People had more resource to spare for charity, and the altruists had fewer and fewer causes to choose from. They came even to me, in my time, and rescued me. Earth cleaned itself up, and whenever something threatened to go drastically wrong again, the whole attention of the planet turned in that direction and took care of it. Humanity finally got its act together." Most fiction works never address how this “threshold” even is, somehow capitalism was able to go forward without ever solving its internal contractions and future is magically achieved. We must always be mindful of this pitfall.
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What is your personal take on the Prime Directive from a leftist stance? https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Prime_Directive Interesting articles on the matter http://archive.is/bgGLP http://www.letswatchstartrek.com/2013/08/20/when-the-prime-directive-is-wrong-by-matt-sheean/ Ironically an episode of The Orville also demonstrates an example of why violating this may be a poor idea. https://orville.fandom.com/wiki/Mad_Idolatry As a side note in reference to the conversation caused by >>10094 , perhaps a concept like the Prime Directive, is why advanced alien races do not interact with us and hide their presence? If so, it halts Posadist thought and some of its hopes for dolphins >>10214
>>10310 It's non-interventionist which is good, and we've seen in Who Watches the Watchers? that when a space-faring civilization meets a bronze age civilization, the result is a cargo cult. Cargo cults are bad because they're often used by charismatic religious leaders to be exploited. My personal gripe with the Prime Directive is that the threshold - warp capability - seems really arbitrary. Why warp capability? I believe a late-capitalist society like ours would be able to deal with the existential identity crisis an alien arrival would cause. I mean fuck, we are running SETI programs wanting to find aliens. Plus, when the Vulcans came down after the flight of the Phoenix, the world was absolute desolate, yet the arrival meant an unparalleled success story for humanity. So suddenly humanity is "ready" because some guy in Arizona discovered a new technology? Seems to me Star Trek is often more Hegelian than it is Marxist - history is viewed as the dialectical progression of ideas rather than material conditions (I mean, late capitalism was more civilized than the Mad Max shit the world was in during and after the Eugenic Wars).
Also, does anybody know if Posadas was actually known amongst sci-fi writers of the 70s and 80s? It feels like something a geeky sci-fi writers of that time would have heard of, and the arrival of the Vulcans and the events that followed in First Contact was incredibly Posadist.
>>10319 >a late-capitalist society like ours would be able to deal with the existential identity crisis The identity crisis isn't the issue with LSC, but the inability to understand a more advanced civilization's mindset. In The Orville we see an example of this with an alien planet that has a SETI-like program and the Orville crew goes to respond, except they lack the level of development to cast aside foolish beliefs. Moreover, porky would seek to do what with aliens? Exploit them and exploit their knowledge and it would just cause a cyberpunk dystopia. >more Hegelian than it is Marxist Maybe. >>10320 You can start with >>10214
>>10310 The novel Hard To Be a God by the Strugatsky brothers handled this position pretty well in my opinion. It set in the Noon universe where the Soviet Union won the Cold War and went on to become a more interventionist version of the federation. Most under developed worlds are seeded with agents to accelerate it’s development toward communism at which point formal first contact will be made. In the story the agent rather than try it with a materialist way, attempt to create a socialist revolution in a world only in feudalism and failed.
>>10310 >What is your personal take on the Prime Directive from a leftist stance? The idea is that you don't want to interfere with a civilization's development and be imperialist or something. On paper that sounds alright but in practice what's the difference between the federation wiping out a culture on a planet and one culture wiping out another on the same planet? If you really took the core concept to its logical conclusion the Federation would be intervening constantly to prevent genocide. But then again in the Star Trek universe every species appears to have a monoculture pretty much which is actually not terribly unrealistic if nobody stops genocides and so on.
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>>10310 Prime Directive is unethical and immoral. In many instances just downright fucked up. https://files.catbox.moe/z07plc.mp4 And who's to say the ayyz have not visited us yet? who's to say we weren't created and uplifted by ayy? Many theistic beliefs could be fabrications of ancient interactions humanity may have had with higher lifeforms.
>>10319 >So suddenly humanity is "ready" because some guy in Arizona discovered a new technology? Yeah this, it's just fucked something fairly specific must happen for a species to be "worthy" of contact and help from higher space-faring races. Something only we humans made up, and view through our own perception of the universe and how things work. It's always as if we're doing exactly what the prime directive tries to prevent, and that's negatively effecting developing civs. Again, who's to say we weren't helped? Even in the trek universe we were by the Vulcans as you stated. So if there was a race in need, or a race we came across that could use a boost in the "right" direction, we'd just let them destroy themselves and their own world? Or just suffer as we scratch our balls and sit on our ivory towers making pisspoor judgments on who is "worthy" of our aid and knowledge? C'mon. Some "developing" civs could have even "chose" to stay on their world and not travel the cosmos. The federation would probably agree to leave such a world be. A world where many WANT to travel the cosmos, meet other sapient life and be free. WE could be in such a world RIGHT now and not even truly know it. So must we damn another civilization an eternity trapped in this small prison world because some batshit elites that wanted full control over their whole world deemed it so? I certainly want out
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>>10396 >constantly to prevent genocide >>10399 >Prime Directive is unethical and immoral I disagree. The entire point is that the Federation is not god and cannot play at god by intervening you prevent the flow of dialectical materialism and is progression >who's to say we weren't created and uplifted by ayy? I doubt that, as there is little evidence to this fact Moreover their possible visitations do not seemed to have made feudalism end quicker or capitalism reach socialism faster. You all assume that alien life will not be hostile to us or view us as sentient beings and not clever animals. >pic Everyone knows Enterprise was not particularly a good series of Star Trek; good ideas executed poorly. Moreover Enterprise is set in the 22nd century, when Warp-travel was only created and humanity was still creating the rules of space-travel and exploration >>10319 >>10400 >humanity is "ready" because some guy in Arizona discovered a new technology Vulcan 'prime directive' is NOT the same as the general Federation policy. And Warp Technology is not the only factor, do actually READ the memory-alpha page. >>10367 >The novel Hard To Be a God by the Strugatsky brothers Yes they did do an interesting concept on it, however their subsequent film was trash https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcSPyrfoCRk
>>10407 >The entire point is that the Federation is not god and cannot play at god Anon, """god""" is a human construct, a specific construct made by the hominid the follow one of the abrahamic faiths. You are choosing to leave less advanced worlds be because of your own beliefs, this is a paradox. Btw, what do you think is meant when we say humans were helped by "aliens" ? What do you think aliens are in this context?
>>10407 >however their subsequent film was trash No shit. Most of their work post-Soviet are.
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>>10416 >a specific construct made by the hominid the follow one of the abrahamic faiths Nope. Abrahamic god is called Yahweh. God is an English word with an etymology spanning centuries but the definition of which is near universal to the religions, faiths and ideas of people the world over. The idea of god would not be unusual to a different sapient race given the origin of gods and mythology in the first place - culture and history passed down orally for centuries until society evolves to the point of accurate historic recording rather than legends. This is part of dialectical progression. Culture is made up of its legends and mythology as much as its science and technology. How this relates to the Prime Directive is demonstrated in the afore mentioned Orville episode Mad Idolatry >>10310 >its a concept No shit, it is a metaphysical concept of a being that is above humans in ability and mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptions_of_God The idea of a human being godly is ridiculous because it is a concept of perfection over humans. This is the lesson of both futuristic and past and fantasy literature and film, that no man can play god without abandoning their humanity, in which case they are no longer human, like Dr.Manhattan from Watchen. in Star Trek Q is a god-like being who can intervene in time, history and dimensions because he generally has the omnipotence and omniscience to do so with little risk to the universe. Just because the conventional human view on god and religion no longer holds them in the same capacity as they did in the past, does not make the classification or definitions and lessons invalid. >You are choosing to leave less advanced worlds be because of your own beliefs, this is a paradox No it isn't, not believing in a god does not make something like god-complex disappear or the idea that acting rashly when you cannot assuredly control the variables is to be foolish. Star Trek demonstrates this numerous times, which is why Picard is so reluctant to do so, even if he does use loopholes when he can, he understands the consequences are unpredictable and are just as likely to worsen things as they re to improve them. You cannot take a venture like changing the path of history for a being unless you know that your meddling will not cause even greater loss. An exception would possibly be when a species is quite literally going to self-destruct. >what do you think is meant when we say humans were helped by "aliens" ? >What do you think aliens are in this context? I understood that and I addressed it indirectly. If aliens did come to humanity in its distant past, what evidence do we have that it helped improve or speed up the progression of humanity? Unless you're implying that aliens created us, which does not have much basis considering how evolution works. It is nothing short of postulation regardless. >>10417 >Most of their work post-Soviet Yeah, unfortunately
>>10418 The idea of many if not most faiths being fabricated and telephoned versions of ancient alien interactions and encounters is not a new thing Many even agree aliens are in fact beyond our imagination, even beyond this dimension; whatever that even means I ask you, if you were a space faring race, and saw a meteor about to wipe out all life on an entire planet, or came across a planet with a new disease that would wipe out all life on it, would you save the planet(s) from absolute extension?
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>>10419 >The idea of many if not most faiths being fabricated and telephoned versions of ancient alien interactions and encounters is not a new thing I know it is not, however we also do not have much evidence for it either. Religious legend telling is more likely to have earthly explanation than it is to have an alien one. >Many even agree aliens are in fact beyond our imagination, even beyond this dimension; whatever that even means A non sequitur that has no proof and throws doubt on the creativity and ingenuity of human-kind, which is frankly unlikely. Given that you dont know what it means, I think a more rational/logical explanation is more likely, Occams Razor and what-not. >if you were a space faring race, and saw a meteor about to wipe out all life on an entire planet >came across a planet with a new disease that would wipe out all life on it Read the Prime Directive instead of just creating strawmen to talk shit about it. The Prime Directive's main point is to prevent meddling in the affairs of a Civlization, exceptions being made in certain cases. Also a meteor striking a planet is an affair of planetary scale, and does not require revealing ones-self to the world to interfere with that.
>>10422 >stop creating strawman Really isn't. Btw Phlox and Archer did commit genocide whether you like it or not. >Also a meteor striking a planet is an affair of planetary scale, and does not require revealing ones-self to the world to interfere with that. So you would stop it then? Now what about the disease?
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>>10424 >Really isn't It is. Read the actual Prime Directive linked. >Phlox and Archer You refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dear_Doctor Except you forget the Prime Directive did not exist at that point an neither does the Federation. Moreover the actual episode is controversial and was pressured into being rewritten by the producers. As said in the show, people are human and humans make mistakes. >So you would stop it then If it were within our ability to prevent without revealing our presence to a premature civilization, then yes. >Disease I don't know, would we be even able to treat it for sure? Is it surely untreatable? If they are hopeless in stopping this and thus condemned to extinction, than an intervention is (from my understanding of the Prime Directive), permissible, given that there is no harm in intervention as there are no worse possibilities we could cause to said lifeforms.
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>>10430 >Except you forget the Prime Directive did not exist at that point All the more reason they committed genocide with no order to even do so Not even sure why you brought up the prime directive there but okay >If it were within our ability to prevent without revealing our presence What if you could save all their lives, but, they would be fully aware of your vessel and physical appearances? What you help them?
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>>10432 >All the more reason Are you trying to ignore context or what? >Not even sure why you brought up the prime directive Because that's what the discussion began with, if you just randomly mentioned Plox and Archer than you're just posting a random non-sequitur. >What if you could save all their lives, but, they would be fully aware of your vessel and physical appearances Depends on the sitch. Are they capable of stopping it themselves? Then no. If they cannot then it may be a risk to take. I personally would save them, but that is from the perspective of myself. As I have repeated many times, the Prime Directive has caveats and exceptions which make such discussion moot without a full-fleshed out situation, which has already been done multiple times in Star Trek.
>more wall of text c'mon man
>>10435 How does it feel to be illiterate? Jesus Christ if you want to be a leftist you must increase your attention span to at least half an hour.
>me a smart psycho
>>10443 >>10435 Please actually link to the posts you are replying to. >>10437 Kek, this but unironically. Although To be honest, there are only a few actual text-wall posts in the thread and they're thorough effort-posts.
>>10424 >Phlox and Archer did commit genocide based I love Enterprise now.
>>10476 From a legal perspective, yes and no. You're only committing murder by negligence when you're their legal warrantor, e.g. your spouse, your student, your client, etc. - when the person is just a stranger, it's "just" failure to render assistance. The difference is pretty much reflected in the degree of penalty, murder gets you lifelong prison, failure to render assistance could get a few years in probation.
Rewatching ENT: It's a Star Trek show with all that comes with it. It's a shame that it was cancelled after the genuinely strong season four, the Earth-Romulan War would have been the peak of the show.
>>10306 I hate it when people ignore effort posts Sorry anon, I enjoyed reading it tho 🙂
>>5642 >That pic >That filename Nigga that's Darjeeling
>>8203 >At least I still have my Soviet Star Trek - like Noon series to finish reading. The what now?


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