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/survival/ - Survivalism, Preparedness & Cost-cutting Anonymous Comrade 01/13/2020 (Mon) 20:48:34 No. 5280
ITT post practical survival, self-sustenance and cost-cutting tips, not utterly useless political/macroeconomic/philosophical theory (that you will never be able to implement anyway because you are just plebeian on the internet, not part of the ruling class) and whining that you see on /leftypol/ The target audience can range from scavenging hobos to minimum wagers to landowners with no mortgages.
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The below food products are some of the cheapest in the market. Some can be consumed without cooking, some can be stored without a fridge, etc. Flour (to fry) + canola oil Canned tomatoes Peanut butter Powdered or evaporated/canned milk Dried beans Canned beans Lard Potatoes Carrots Milk Veggie prices vary by area, you figure it out For example if you were homeless/in the wilderness with just a backpack, you would carry peanut butter, canned tomatoes and powdered milk, in that order of nutritional importance. If you had a stove but no fridge then you would have flour, canola oil, canned tomatoes and powdered or evaporated milk. If you can spend a little more, cook some dried beans into the mix for extra protein and fiber. Rice is overrated, don't waste your money on it, bad nutritional value per penny, carbs are unnecessary for survival. Even the North Koreans are smart enough to realize that rice is shit for nutrition for the amount of labor and resources it takes to produce and so they switched to potatoes as their main staple food: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_production_in_North_Korea https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-aug-09-mn-64015-story.html https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2018/11/103_257928.html The three most important RDI values for survival in the short-term are calories, fat and protein. Absolute minimum for the average person's survival (ie. not healthy in the long term) are 1000 calories, 22g of fat and 12g of protein. If you want to be "healthy" in the long term you should be consuming at least double (44g, 24g), and obviously all the necessary vitamins and minerals. Usually it takes longer to die from vitamin or mineral deficiency than fat or protein deficiency as the body relies on and depletes the latter much faster.
>>5280 Nice beet there, when the shit comes I will steel all your vegetable. That's my strategy.
>>5283 Unpolished brown rice is a good source of fiber https://www.livescience.com/50461-brown-rice-health-benefits-nutrition-facts.html And unless you are in a bug out situation where you have to carry everything you own on your back then brown rice is well worth having. Also cracked wheat and rolled oats are also great sources of fiber.
If you want to make a salad you must first implement a 5 year economic plan
>>5283 I'm better off so I can actually buy meat, but I know a lot of my friends suck at buying food from stores. Some tips: - Canned stuff is very expensive if you can make it yourself. Dried beans, chickpeas, lentils last a long time. When they get small insects, you can still cook and eat them no problem. - Beef, read meat is very expensive. Always avoid. - Chicken and pork is the way to go for meat protein. You want to get the fattiest pork at the cheapest price, which depending where you're from, the fattiest is the cheapest. - A lot of vegetables don't last long, you want to really avoid throwing away food. Potatoes last, tomatoes don't. Plan accordingly. - Avoid instant ramen. Shit's not good for you and you're better off cooking something cheaper and more nutritious. - Avoid dishes that are primarily meat, so mix meat with other stuff. Think stir fry, or rice udon, or chickpeas with meat. Space out your meat so it lasts longer. - Fuck milk, that shit spoils too quickly. Probably not that good for you. - On that note, avoid all juices. Pure sugar, expensive, not worth it. - Butter tastes delicious, but burns easily and is expensive compared to other oils. Use wisely. - Buy spices, itll make cooking the same ingredients less boring. - Chickpeas are great. Consider making a shit ton, it takes a full day of soaking in water before putting them to cook. - Lettuce, cabbage and similar vegetables are very low in caloric value but they can also be very cheap and make for good filler to whatever you're cooking. These become ugly rather quick, but they're still good to cook with (unless they're actually rotten). - This might be ridiculously obvious to some, but expiry dates are more like suggestions to watch out. Trust your nose and your sight. Beware of rotten bread.
>>5365 Also, this guy makes really good cooking videos. Really simple, no bullshit, proletarian cooking videos. Although he keeps bullshit to the minimum, he still manages to make them entertaining. https://www.youtube.com/user/ltdan1504 He won't show you how to make fancy shit you can't even find the ingredients for. Anyways, highly recommended.
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>>5367 >Channel Trailer: "That guy who said avocado toast is pricing millennials out of homes was right actually."
e
a, guys
The smartest survival strategy I can think of is to set up a collective farm, it can start as a community vegetable garden/coop and function as such indefinitely, but it can also be an insurance policy in case shit hits the fan, and if that happens then the farm can expand , people will quit their day jobs and work the farm and everyone will get to eat. And having a larger group means that your community can afford to have specialists who don't farm, you can have guards/police and a medical center and/or a repair shop and/or a library. In essence you will have all the building blocks you need to rebuild society, rather than just survive. and the good thing about a plan like this is anyone can buy into it both before and after a disaster. Anyone who works can eat.
>>5540 >it can also be an insurance policy in case shit hits the fan, and if that happens then the farm can expand , people will quit their day jobs and work the farm and everyone will get to eat. >implying that when "shit hits the fan", being in or near populated areas will be safe
>>5283 What about honey?
Sometimes I wish I could run away into the woods. Settle in an abandoned house, possibly in an abandoned village. Eat what I gather and what I catch, also go out and buy food and medicaments occasionally, but as little as possible to save money. Occasionally I'd have to return to the "civilisation", of course, and work a couple of months at some shit job to get some money for the food and to pay for the internet (although there may be no need for the latter if I manage to catch someone's wifi with some long-distance antenna). I've been told electricity can be stolen from power lines unnoticed, and that it actually is done quite often in this country. While water is quite a problem. Non-potable water can be got from e.g. some well or a river, while potable... it isn't likely that I would find a drinking water spring near an abundant house which also has an electricity line in the vicinity, so I'd probably have to but that too, and what's yet worse is that drink very much, like 6 liters per day, so that'd be quite a cost. I do understand that this is pretty much unaccomplishable, since I don't even have any of the skills needed. And while snaring doesn't seem to be that hard, and learning to tell edible berries from poisonous ones might be feasible, I don't know how I can acquire the skills needed to cut connect to power lines on my own.
>>5595 bad, it's just gooey sugar
How do I grow enough food to feed myself using as little labor as possible?
>>5750 farming is laborious, not meant for someone who already has a full-time job, and you need at minimum 1/4 acres (1000 sq. m.) of land to feed one person a vegetarian diet
Can you get enough food from the forest, without growing anything yourself? Through trapping small animals and gathering berries, cones and stuff
>>5768 I'm prepared to do a lot of work. I just don't want to be stuck as a wage slave for the rest of my life.
>>5595 Honey will can keep for thousands of years if you keep water out of it. They have found honey in an eatable state in ancient Egyptian tombs. The only thing is that it goes hard like candy , but this can be reversed by heating it. Of course honey should be considered to be an 'eat sometimes' food, use it like sugar and count it towards your sugar consumption , but it is slightly healthier than white sugar or high fructose corn syrup since it is not highly processed.
a useful fact: the fruit of basically all species of grass is edible and can be made into flour etc, just like wheat, rye, oats etc. Incidentally wild oat is a common, easy to identify weed. Just make sure the seeds are not dark in colour, as this could mean they are infected with a fungus. Other common weeds like dandelions and mallows are just perfectly edible and quite good for you. Could be a useful survival tip to know
>>5283 >Rice is overrated the reason why rice has been staple in Korean peninsula (and many other countries) is because it provides complementary vital amino acids to legumes, making meat consumption optional. speaking of legume, beans are such an amazing crop. It's full of fibre and protein (incomplete, but if you sprout it before cooking, it becomes complete protein), tastes reasonably ok, lasts virtually forever when dried and looks so aesthetics. Fuck everything about hitler but his dietary program to feed every solider with soy based product is one of few redeeming idea from fascists.
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I've got a plot that I want to plant with food and plant crops but the previous owner left plastic crap all over it and it's sunk into the top couple inches of top soil. I would have ideally just mulchsheeted all over the plot but I can't do that knowing now potentially how much crap is below the surface. Is there a method of finding and removing plastics, heavy metals and other pollution or do I need to turn over all of the topsoil and manually find and remove said polluted crap?
I adore this notion sometimes brought up by capitalist bootlickers "if you dont like capitalism just go and live in the woods on your own lmao". While in reality what makes this impossible isn't your inability to survive off the grid, rather, the omnipresence of "the grid". Yep, "living in the woods" is pretty much illegal in most places. How could capitalists allow that? You're a slave, remember. The only thing that differentiates you from a slave is that if you work hard and you're lucky you get to choose a nicer owner. Living on my own and not getting in trouble with the law would require a tent and some means of transportation, so as to move around quickly and never stay for long at one place. But then new problems arise: Heated tents are next to impossible to build yourself, they aren't cheap, they need actual refined fuels, not just wood. Tents in general don't protect you from wild animals. Since you can't grow anything, what the hell are you going to eat? Some forms of hunting and fishing are allowed where I live, but then again, you need fruits, vegetables, wheat, etc. And even hunting and fishing are only allowed in some designated places. Ah yes, moving around. Well depending on where you live a bicycle probably could suffice, but in most places not really. You need a motor-powered vehicle. Well, building a biomass gasifier is doable although dangerous. But than what? You gonna build an internal combustion engine too? None of these problems would arise if you could just get a place where you could stay safe from law enforcement.
>>5283 >Even the North Koreans are smart enough to realize that rice is shit for nutrition for the amount of labor and resources it takes to produce and so they switched to potatoes as their main staple food: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_production_in_North_Korea https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-aug-09-mn-64015-story.html https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2018/11/103_257928.html Nice sources there retard. Unironically kys.
>>6386 https://web.archive.org/web/20010720160440/http://kcna.co.jp/item/1998/9812/news12/21.htm >Farms across Korea are actively getting ready for potato cultivation. After this year's rich potato yields in some farm areas, potato cultivation in Korea is described as an interesting challenge and a promising venture. Korea's agriculture stresses rice, maize and other grains, but this orientation suffered a setback in recent years because of the severe cold and little sunshine in many rural areas. And potato requires far less fertilizer than rice or maize. These considerations inspired the nation to adopt potato as a solution to food shortage. Potato has already been an established crop for years in the mountainous provinces of Ryanggang, South Hamgyong and Jagang. Its extensive cultivation is earnestly planned in the intermediary areas and on plains. In particular, the farms on the plains are gearing themselves to the two-crop system through the cultivation of potato before the rice season, as an inter-maize crop and after the harvest of wheat, barley and vegetables. With still more area allotted for potato cultivation, widespread efforts are made to secure seeds, obtain new seeds suited to local conditions and assimilate advanced methods and experience of potato farming. Officials from the ministry of agriculture go out to the farms to help the proceedings at work. Next year the area under potato cultivation is expected to double that of this year. https://web.archive.org/web/20001012132848/http://kcna.co.jp/item/1998/9812/news12/30.htm >A prospect has been opened for attaining self-sufficiency in food through a great upswing in potato farming. https://web.archive.org/web/20010305170143/http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2000/200002/news02/04.htm >As the whole country drew on the experience of Taehongdan county with keen interest, potato, once considered as a secondary crop, has become one of the main crops like rice. https://web.archive.org/web/20010310111524/http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2000/200011/news11/28.htm >He said with great satisfaction that officials and working people of the Phothae integrated farm have made new progress in carrying through the party's policy of making a revolution in potato farming https://web.archive.org/web/20010217173434/http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2000/200011/news11/18.htm >The construction of minor power stations, large-scale land leveling and rezoning projects, revolution in potato cultivation, fish culture and all other gigantic projects now under way in the DPRK can be carried out only by the Korean people who have nurtured pluck and gut thanks to the trust of Kim Jong Il. https://web.archive.org/web/20191124040859/http://kcna.co.jp/item/2018/201810/news01/20181001-06ee.html >Rodong Sinmun Calls for Bringing about Radical Turn in Potato Farming >Rodong Sinmun Monday dedicates an editorial to the 20th anniversary of the policy of bringing about a revolution in potato farming set forth by Chairman Kim Jong Il. >Kim Jong Il gave field guidance to Taehongdan County, Ryanggang Province on Oct. 1, Juche 87(1998) to advance the policy of bringing about a radical turn in potato farming, and clearly indicated the orientation and ways for increasing the agricultural production of the country through extensive potato farming, the editorial says http://www.pyongyangtimes.com.kp/?bbs=27328 >The period of the Arduous March and forced march in the 1990s is indelibly etched in the DPRK’s 70-year history replete with creation and changes. >In the mid-1990s the DPRK was faced with a worst-ever adversity in its history. >It set easing power and food shortages as a breakthrough in the building of an economic giant and pressed on with the building of large and minor hydroelectric power plants in many places and double-cropping, potato farming, land rezoning and laying of gravity-fed waterways. >The Korean People’s Army played a leading role in overcoming economic difficulties as the main force and shock brigade in implementing the socialist cause. https://kcnawatch.org/newstream/1565259298-637455173/efforts-to-solve-people%e2%80%99s-food-problem1/ >What is important in the main orientation for solving food problem is to hasten the seed revolution and the potato farming revolution, develop the soybean farming and widely introduce the double-cropping. >Potato farming is being done on a wide scale in Korea. >Since long ago, Korea has extended the area for cultivating potato to dibble potatoes not only in the northern highlands but also in the flat areas and, in this course, laid the foundations for increasing the potato production. >Numerous farms switch from the wheat-and-barley-centred double-cropping to the potato-centred double-cropping. >Potato, the high-yielding crop, is the preceding crop in double-cropping which is effective in solving the tense food problem. Potato is befitting as the preceding crop as it is higher in per-hectare production than wheat and barley, strong in resistance to cold and requires less fertilizer. Leaves and stems of potato which remain much more than wheat and barley straws are effective in increasing the fertility as they are fast in green manure effect and high in the content of nitrogen. For this reason, the grain-to-grain double-cropping switches from the wheat-and-barley-centred to the potato-centred double-cropping.
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>>6300 >the reason why rice has been staple in Korean peninsula (and many other countries) is because it provides complementary vital amino acids to legumes, making meat consumption optional. no. potatoes are easier to grow in europe, and rice which needs a lot more water is easier to grow in east & southeast asia due to more rainfall. protein / amino acids weren't discovered until the 19th century, and the majority of east & southeast asians were illiterate/uneducated until the late 20th century. it's all about crop yield based on climate. so nobody knew/cared about nutrition, they didn't have processed foods / fast food / chocolates / soda anyway. climate regions (tropical, dry, temperate, continental, polar) were not created/divided up until the early 20th century, and even then the delineation of the regions were fuzzy until the mid-to-late 20th century beginning with the information age. when korea split, the north and south also happened to split at two different climate regions. so the north switching to potatoes as their main staple unlike the south is not just for nutritional reasons but it also makes more sense yield-wise based on their climate. today the south exceeds the north in rice production while the north exceeds in potato production.
>>6300 Lentils are a great plant too. Similar to beans, but they're a pulse. They will even grow without soil as long as they have enough water. Also, rice or some other source of carbs is useful if you're going to be active because it gives you energy to burn.
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Archive of the Permaculture thread: http://archive.vn/WHhRZ The PDFs are all saved on wayback, but incase It goes down and the thread dies, ask and ye shall recieve (be specific)
This is nice but anyone have some survival stuff if you get shipwrecked, or lost in a forest with little supplies or someshit?
https://edgeryders.eu/t/autarky-library-511-open-access-e-books/8791#text-14 big library of various resilience topics - farming, infrastructure, etc >>11105 There is lot of lit about this kind of thing - kinda depends if you are thinking like "survive until I find people" or "survive indefinitely". Here is the SAS survival guide which is pretty widely available for this sort of nature survival business. http://files.diydharma.org/other/SAS_Survival_Guide.pdf
>>11504 Thanks a bunch
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Hobo symbols for you guys
The amazon basin civilization(s) probably lived in green cities kind of like this but they died because people like Fancisco de Orellana coofed up and down the amazon river, and plagues did the rest. By the time later European explorers came around, the jungle had overgrown and hid all the ruins and everyone thought the early explorers who reported dense populations and developed infrastructure were bullshitters talking about el dorado and the fountain of youth and whatever. The evidence now suggests that the rainforest is at least in part man-made. https://time.com/5218270/amazonian-civilization-discovered-mato-grosso/ https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180723142845.htm https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/01/searching-amazons-hidden-civilizations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_rainforest#Human_activity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta Permaculture isn't more labor intensive if you set it up correctly. There's more up-front cost design-wise, but once the system is going, it's going and you just harvest and do a little maintenance. It's not only the method of agriculture that has to change, but the entire ethos. People don't realize how little (i.e. not at all) humans understood biology and nature at the time agricultural practices were formed and how much of the work was unnecessary or wasteful. With capitalism, wasteful practices become effectively set in stone because the process is commodified and there are financial interests to protect regarding the wasteful processes. >pay someone to remove "waste" from the system >pay someone else to get "fertilizer" to put into the system to keep it alive If you set up the system according to how organisms naturally function you aren't fighting upstream the entire time. You let the "waste" turn into fertilizer, as it does naturally in any ecosystem. You also irrigate with waste water (including human waste) to keep the nutrients in the system. It's not just a method of farming and it's not just a lifestyle. It's designing the entire process as an ecosystem, as a closed loop. There's a lot more to it than that too (like pest control), but I'm not going to explain the whole thing in one post rn. tl;dr Modern Western agriculture treats plants like machines instead of organisms and has no concept of ecosystems
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That was just a fucking parallel you mong. If you are too illiterate to understand, let me use another one. Nature and Earth is like our house. Sometimes we want to demolish a wall in our house to make a larger room, or we want to attach an expansion to it. There is nothing wrong with that - the "original" form of the house isn't sacred. However, if the wall in question is load-bearing, or the expansion would destabilize the foundations, you DON'T do it, lest you be an utter idiot as you are putting your home in danger of collapse. Same shit applies to nature. Cars should be a secondary option, for people who need it. 1 car per person if they need it. Most people own and drive cars because of necessity. If, after public transport is established properly, they still need or want a car, then they can have it. claims that everyone who touched "black snow" got thyroid cancer in 6 years, which isn't true, because the "black snow" was the result of the fires in reactor 4, there is no fire nowadays but you still get radiation poisoning from the radiative decay. You also can't treat radiation poisoning if you reach that stage (thyroid cancer) because once it's in there you are fucked, developing thyroid cancer depends on the dose and genetics, If you don't absorb radioactive iodine, you don't need to treat yourself with iodine tablets either start with Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome Permaculture in the Senegal desert (pic related) https://youtu.be/MYMIbLoxW8U
‘Collapse of civilisation is the most likely outcome’: top climate scientists <The world’s most eminent climate scientists and biologists believe we’re headed for the collapse of civilisation, and it may already be too late to change course. https://voiceofaction.org/collapse-of-civilisation-is-the-most-likely-outcome-top-climate-scientists/ METABOLIC RIFTS Triple Crisis in the Anthropocene Ocean. >Part One: Corrosive Seas https://climateandcapitalism.com/2020/09/07/ocean-triple-crisis-part-1/ >Part Two: Running Low on Oxygen https://climateandcapitalism.com/2020/09/20/triple-crisis-in-the-anthropocene-ocean-part-two-running-low-on-oxygen/ >Part Three: The Heat of 3.6 Billion Atom Bombs https://climateandcapitalism.com/2020/10/24/triple-crisis-in-the-anthropocene-ocean-part-three-the-heat-of-3-6-billion-atom-bombs/
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There is an architect by the name of Vincent Callebaut. Has designs to turn places such as the city of Paris into an ecologically friendly location. He has plans for bio-air conditioning, anti-smog towers, and vertical farming. http://vincent.callebaut.org/object/150105_parissmartcity2050/parissmartcity2050/projects If you guys wanna see something wild, check this shit out. There are spiders known as Anelosimus Exumius that exist in giant communal webs, with hardly any social heirarchy, save for separation by sex. Check it out, it's fucking nuts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td09PIjz0iQ https://unbelievable-facts.com/2016/02/anelosimus-eximius.html
>>19887 Sources >Since 1960, low-oxygen areas in the open ocean have expanded by 4.5 million square kilometers, an area the size of the European Union. Some regions have lost 40% of their oxygen, and the volume of water containing zero oxygen has more than quadrupled. The ocean is losing about a billion metric tons of oxygen every year. At present rates, the decline in life-giving ocean oxygen will triple by 2100. Add that to the rapidly growing number of coastal dead zones, and we have a life support emergency. <Overall, the ocean’s oxygen content has fallen just 2%, but the decline has occurred almost entirely in parts of the ocean where marine life is usually most abundant, so its impact is far greater than that percentage suggests.
David Attenborough just put out a new documentary that was really well done, and was actually pretty realistic about the coming climate crisis. Didn't pull any punches like most hopium filled publications do, and as far as I know I don't know why a >90 year old man would want to spend what are the last years of his life bullshitting people about something he's done for half of his life or more. Talked about the desertification of oceans, of land, of sopsoil being exhausted by our farming practices, overpopulation, temperature rises and what that means for humans and the wider ecosystem at large. These are things we have to consider as communists. Personally, it has always been my belief since I became aware of just how big an issue this was right around the time I left college that human society as we know it globally will be knocked down a civilization or two even. It was a pretty tough thing to realize, as I was also awash with enthusiasm for the material I had read from Marx, Lenin, Engals and coming to learn more about the USSR, China and such. Anyway, what I'm ultimately saying is that when I post on here ultimately its from a dark place because I feel like while capitalism will die any hope for what we know as socialism very well goes with it. Ultimately though for the purposes of this post the documentary was well done and while it had some liberal solutions at the end, I know a socialist world order (that won't exist in our lifetimes in the developed form we need to beat this issue) could have been able to beat this issue. Producing for use value would be a huge first. Capitalism won't, and I know liberals can't even face that prospect. I think the conclusions cannot be ignored just because of hope and belief socialism will triumph somehow, and at least acknowledging a possible end to everything we know has to be considered. NOTE: While the documentary is available through a certain paid service, I don't see why certain free platforms wouldn't have it. I hear there are things called trackers that carry it in high quality and other formats, and a certain bay. If you haven't seen it, do it for the knowledge, for a love of animals or a combination of both.

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