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Anonymous Comrade 04/30/2020 (Thu) 12:16:52 No. 8997
Now that the dust has settled, what's your verdict?
>>9256 Stannis' downfall was straight up character assassination and bad writing. Dude is a legendary commander and gets his army camp raided by "20 good men", kills his daughter, loses again to Ramsay, survives and gets killed for something that happened 3 seasons behind. I think the writers just hated him.
>>9259 I think the people who said "this why D&D are liberals, because apparently you can't have a revolution if you break a few eggs" are sort of presupposing that a revolution has to be led by a literal madmen who kills millions of the toiling masses out of spite. This isn't what revolutionaries do. Robespierre, Lenin, Mao, Castro weren't crazy, they didn't hold contempt for the common men who used to live under their enemies. Only Pol Pot started mass-killing his own people like Daenerys, and he can not be called a comrade or genuine revolutionary. D&D are libs, of course, but I feel there is a bit more to it. Daenerys isn't some marginalized people's hero, she comes from the most powerful feudal dynasty that just happened to lose a civil war before, one that is known for inbreeding in madness. Her compassion to the common folk, like to slaves, is completely patronising, if they don't reciprocate it, they have to die. The masses of King's Landing didn't want her "love" so they had to do die. Even if you look at progressive historical figures like Julius Caesar or Napoleon Bonaparte, they didn't do shit like that. Jon, on the other hand, is a marginalized bastard son, and even though he ends up turning out to be Aegon's son, he's more genuinely people's oriented than Daeneryses cult.
>>9270 I think they've grown to hate him, don't know why. Probably because they had no idea what to do with him. Basically all of his scenes of season 3 and 4 were filler until the last episode of season 4, in season 2 he was portrayed decently. In the Battle of Blackwater, it was a bit out of character for him to go into the vanguard, but it was also kind of cool to see him kick ass, it kinda fitted "show Stannis"
>>9272 Exactly. The whole character was a critique of Hillary Clinton-esque "leaders". People who feel such absurd unbridled entitlement to power and get mass support only because they have a shallow appearance of being something different, when they're not.
>>8997 The last season was nowhere near as bad people say, it just seemed worse because the early-mid seasons were so good. The show will go down as a classic. People hated the Sopranos ending at the time too. The "what" of the ending - what actually happens, where all the characters end up, etc. - is perfect, and undoubtedly is lifted straight from GRRM. The burning of King's Landing as the culmination of Dany's arc was genius. The problem was with how it was done in the show. In a word: it was rushed. But it's annoying how everything just gets swept up into the wave of neckbeard outrage. All the legitimate criticisms get mixed in with the retarded criticism so the consensus becomes a braindead, unnuanced "it's shit!" People even retroactively re-label the earlier season as shit because of it. Bitch, you obviously loved the show, stop lying to yourself. THE REASON you were so angry at the last season is because you loved it so much.
>>9270 Did you watch the show? He goes borderline insane with his entitlement to power and superstition over Melisandre. Don't complain about "bad writing" if you don't even understand the basics of character motivation. You're talking like these events just happened for no reason.
>>9278 >Defending D&D's writing Not even the actor playing him understood what his motivation was.
>>9261 Truly a song of ice and fire!
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A DOTHRAKI WHOOOOOOOOORE ON AN OPEN FIELD, NED
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>>9277 This level of bait is simply masterful
>>9305 >This bait is masterful. >Nobody has taken it. GoT season 8 is so bad that to describe it we must revive the phrase "epic fail."
>>9303 worst meme literal reddit tier fucking fred flintstone
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>>9303 WHEN YOU PLAY THE GAME OF WHORES, YOU WIN OR YOU DIE
>>9305 People have rated last two episodes way lower than the rest of episodes. >>9321 She cute
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>>9331 I don't need an army. I just need 20 good men.
>>9320 It's from /tv/s /GoT/ actually
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>>9399 GODS WHAT A STUPID BOOOARD
GoT is like a gory lemon-filled rip-off of LOTR
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Potentially relevant copypast about the whole series. I agree with it, but I didn't write it.
>>9458 Eh. The story has plenty of romances, it's just that they often turn out badly, but in their description they are just as kitsch as traditional fantasy. There are also plenty of heros and villains. I also disagree that the deaths are pointless, at least for the most part, they always seem to reshuffle the balance of power necessary for the plot to go forward. Idk, that poster seems really triggered.
>>9458 >first sentences praises Goodkind Dismissed. Not only is he a plagiarist with tired rehashes of fantasy cliches, but he's an asshole to his own illustrators, and is a Ayn Rand objectivist who wholly lives up to her hypocritical sociopathic ideology in both books and real life. Pic 2 is just an example of his 'writing'.
>>9468 Ah I misinterpreted the screencap, they actually talk of Goodkind as being predictable. Nevermind.
>>9458 >where are the descriptions of variously sized dongs swinging within the confines of absurdly detailed clothing FAT PINK MAST Also worth noting is that dicks are generally less visible than tits, and GRRM writes excessive detail about everybody's clothing and armor. I don't think this person even read any of the books. Obviously this is one of those people who think femininity is sacred and a fat neckbeard describing a woman's appearance is profaning the temple of womanhood.
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>>9303 More swine your grace?
>>9520 >is a Lannister >is also celibate >name is Lancel BRAVO MARTIN, truly the American Tolkien
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BOW YOU LITTLE SHITS BEFORE I STRETCH MYSELF
>>9520 I hated this guy so much in the show. Is he as bad in the books?
>>9708 In the books he is less of a whimp and actually looks decent. In the show he's just the ultimate fuckboi.
But what about the dragons? I think they were poorly utilized.
>>9004 That's a pretty retarded and deliberately contrarian take on GoT. It's not super avante-garde high art or anything, but it's a lot more nuanced than just mindless violence and domination. In the books at least, one of the main themes of the story is all of the pointless suffering, violence and death that results from all these petty power-struggles between the noble houses. It's not meant as a glorification of all the violence, it's a condemnation if anything. And then you have the whole white walker thing, (which is pretty obviously an allegory for climate change) basically saying that if these rich assholes vying for power don't get their shit together, then everyone is gonna die and none of it will have mattered anyway. Also Peter Joseph is a complete fucking sperglord lmao.
>>9255 >I think it's funny that fans always praised the show for being "realistic" and not doing tropes, and then got extremely angery when the show didn't give the Night King a predictably epic Hollywood-style final showdown. That's not what people were complaining about though, people were mad because instead of the fucking ice-zombie apocalypse was ended overnight in a single battle and everything went back to normal as if it never happened. People wanted the white walkers to have an actual tangible affect on the world.
>>9255 >>9871 Also the epic Hollywood showdown is exactly what they did
>>9273 >In the Battle of Blackwater, it was a bit out of character for him to go into the vanguard That's because that episode was written by GRRM himself, so he was portrayed more accurately.
>>9871 >People wanted the white walkers to have an actual tangible affect on the world. The irony of this is that their threat, despite being known since Season 1 only came back in the final Seasons and is just mentioned in other Seasons without actually holding up in the plot.
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>>9870 >a pretty retarded and deliberately contrarian take It really isn't. Like a lot of shows that are its contemporaries its edgy, gory "realism" is what appealed to fans. >a lot more nuanced than just mindless violence and domination Its not. It just hides behind complex political and military back n' forth. >It's not meant as a glorification of all the violence No-one said it was. They agree, it demonstrates all the most beastly characteristics of humans in a gory low-fantasy story with fairly predictable shit about political wayfinding, betrayal and other shit. The first 2 Seasons were good and I enjoyed it, and then the rest went to shit because they couldn't get past "hurr I betrayed you, hurr incest, hurr power!"
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>>9004 Thinking GoT is high art is pretty embarrassing but not as embarrassing as acting smug over knowing it's not. >>9255 >I think it's funny that fans always praised the show for being "realistic" and not doing tropes, and then got extremely angery when the show didn't give the Night King a predictably epic Hollywood-style final showdown. People were mad that they did an epic showdown that had no basis in any of the foreshadowing, character development, or themes that the show had built up to that point. Pic related would be an example of an ending that makes sense given the context. Instead of something that made sense or even something actually subversive, they picked a random character to beat him and executed it in a way that made no sense. She teleported past like 100 white walkers and stabbed a convenient gap in his armor using a sleight of hand trick. lolsorandumb is not the same thing as subverting the tropes. >>9272 >I think the people who said "this why D&D are liberals, because apparently you can't have a revolution if you break a few eggs" are sort of presupposing that a revolution has to be led by a literal madmen who kills millions of the toiling masses out of spite. But the only reason she did that (in the show) is because "revolutionaries are psycho mass murderers." Her actions make no sense otherwise. Up to that point she went out of her way to avoid hurting random civilians. She would be brutal but only toward the ruling classes. There are plenty of faults but bloodlust directed at the commoners comes completely out of nowhere. >D&D are libs, of course, but I feel there is a bit more to it. Daenerys isn't some marginalized people's hero, she comes from the most powerful feudal dynasty that just happened to lose a civil war before, one that is known for inbreeding in madness. Her compassion to the common folk, like to slaves, is completely patronising, if they don't reciprocate it, they have to die. This is a product of D&D not grasping the source material. She's written this way by GRRM, as a kind of mighty whitey who thinks she's a savior but is arguably making things worse. D&D interpret this as a revolutionary who wants to improve things but that doesn't work and revolution is just worse than the status quo because reasons. GRRM is a liberal too of course, but he has a much better grasp on politics than Dumb & Dumber. The books make it a lot clearer that she's unhinged and detached from the commoners. The show plays her heroism straight until suddenly it doesn't.
>>9881 >acting smug over knowing it's not How is that smug tho?
>>9886 If calling it "low art" isn't obvious enough, that's followed by "There I said it." This is a really common opinion I've seen people have where they actively act smug for not liking a popular show, including but not limited to GoT.
>>9887 >There I said it That's not being smug and neither is calling something low art... jesus how fucked are we if casual phrases are now "smug" >seen people have where they actively act smug for not liking a popular show Derisive and smug are not the same thing.
>>9888 >>9886 How is that not smug though? If someone said that in a real life conversation, it would come across as smug.
>>9889 I wouldn't say that's really smug, just disdainful and perhaps annoyed. I would be to considering how much GoT is harped about in the media and online like its the second coming of christ (or satan), when most of it past the first 2-3 seasons was just mediocre.
>>9892 It's smug because saying it's beneath your taste in contrast to its popularity is directly implying that your taste is better than most people's.
>>9871 Yeah that was my impression too. None of the main characters except Theon died if I remember correctly, and the entire concept of the Night King was poorly written: while a creature like that is not (yet) introduced in the books as nothing but a myth (with some indication that it might have something to do with the main story), in the show they revealed the origin of the Night King early on as something the Children of the Forest have created, to which the audience doesn't really have a connection to. He was established as some type of dark lord that you just need to kill to make his entire army dead, without any explanation, including the motive of the White Walkers to move south in the first place. I think ideally, we should have gotten much more mystical and hidden White Walkers and some form of a Long Night covering parts of Westeros where people live in some form of apocalyptic hell with giant spiders hunting in the dark and zombified villages for a good season, instead of giving it a single battle climax right after they break through the wall and then everybody pretending nothing ever happened. You don't have to cover all of Westeros in the Long Night, but at least let this have some sort of impact. I think it is clear what parts Martin envisioned and what he told D&D: the ending of Jon stabbing a mad Dany in the throne room in front of a burning city, with Drogon then burning the Iron Throne is actually an ending I believe that Martin did envision, it's the "bittersweet ending" he always talks about, but he hasn't really found out a way to get there, and he doesn't really know how to get to the conclusion of the threat of the Others (White Walkers in the books) either I believe.
>>9888 The point is, it's like some NuAtheist telling the family on the dinner table on Christmas Eve "you know what, GOD NOT REAL" just for the sake of edginess (and Peter Joseph kinda is that type).
>>9905 > implying that your taste is better than most people Maybe I'm weird but I think that's wrong, and more of something people who do like it interpret when someone doesn't think GoT is all that great. >>9911 I can get that and Peter probably is like that, I just meant that the specific tweet was pretty neautral IMO.
>>9004 Epitome of ShitLibism
>>9932 >Not liking an over-rated show that is a low-fantasy despite denial is ShitLib <If you're a liberal even a basic post is related to your politics even if the content has nothing political Pure Ideology >>9788 Not so much poorly utilized so much as underused and inconsistent. They were supposed to be nigh unbeatable as adults, yet one is killed by ship-borne ballista from afar with Daeneris not even bothering to maneuver in her attack. https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/9/18538169/game-of-thrones-crossbows-explained-medieval-warfare

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