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/trek/ Anonymous Comrade 01/24/2020 (Fri) 01:40:32 No. 5635
<Star Trek Picard S01E01 is out (check torrents) >general Favourite episodes, best characters, memorable moments, etc.
>>17944 I mean, It's Only a Paper Moon is perhaps my favorite episode.
Second STD episode was more tolerable because it didn't have Michael in it apart from the end where she's getting another Jesus moment. But they should really cut out this Asian bitch, can not stand her, she's just comically evil.
>>5635 What did star trek mean by this? https://youtu.be/QO2fXtxszEA
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>>10241 >>10195 >>10205 >>10192 >>10208 >>10098 >>10094 The thing is, aliens likely DO exist. Given the chemical make up of the universe, it’s massive size, the huge variety of physical forces acting in certain places and the existence of hugely various life that we experience ourselves personally, we can say with certainty that it is possible for the universe to produce life, we ourselves the living proof. The issue is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox But for that, there are several possibilities. 1) it is possible that we are the first “intelligent” life that has ever evolved. Thus, while aliens are out there, they are not as smart as we are. Why would other life in the universe necessarily have to be intelligent? We may in fact BE the future precursor aliens of our universe that are often told of in science-fiction stories. 2) There are aliens, but they are so far away it is literally physically impossible for them to ever reach us or us them, the physical conditions required for life simply cannot be created in a state that travels fast enough to cover the distance before it dies. This however assumes life is evenly spread and there isn’t some life near enough to us that could possibly do this 3) This is indeed possible, it just hasn’t happened yet. For unknown reasons such as a postulated Prime Directive as in Star Trek. 4) it is possible, it has happened, and for whatever reason they chose not to reveal themselves or we do not have concrete visible proof. 5) it is possible, it is happening, but they have not found us yet. 6) it is possible, it is happening but the CIA have covered it up. Now I have to tell you lads that in basically every above scenario, bar 1 & 2, that we are simply talking about a matter of time, literally. Unless they choose never to reveal themselves. But you have to think at some point they would, for many different reasons, to exploit us, to help us, out of curiosity. You’d think if they came this far, they’d also be the kind of beings curious enough to come this far, curious, or greedy, if it was greed, and they had the capability, they would take us in a heartbeat. Basically, the ayylmao clock is ticking, although we could be all dead from climate change by the time they find us, and that looks a lot more likely than us finding them There's a huge amount about physics we don't know yet. The nature of their existence might just be different from ours, like they're made of dark matter or are Cthulhuesque beings. Whatever they are though, the encounters indicate they are willfully showing themselves to us. That raises the questions of why they care and how they want us to react to the knowledge. That is the subject of debate concerning the Prime Directive -> >>10419 >>10422 >>10310 >>12470 >>14628 >>10319 >>10407 >>10418 >>12470 >>13808 >>13811
>>18218 You forgot the option that all the aliens have invented subspace communication and are shitposting on the uninet, wondering why humans aren't loggin in.
I Just got done with DS9 in my big Trek watch. I really like it's cast of characters Who feel more fleshed out and colourful that most of TNG's main cast. I thought it had a nice mix of overarching plotlines and standalone episodes too. >>17978 I really like that Episode, it was where Vic really grew on me as a character (unlike Ezri who never really fit in that well). i have mixed feeling on the Dominion war. Action in TV shows never seems to do it for me. I really liked the Dominion as villains though.
I think by virtue of it being a spin off animated series hardcore trek fans will be less offended by Lower Decks than by STD or Picard
>>18066 Seriously, will no one answer?
>>18261 True, but as I explained in my posts for Lower Decks, it's such trash that it still doesn't get any real positive feedback, the only people who like it are idiots who think modern Family Guy is funny, though even Family Guy is better than Lower Decks TBH. >>18263 TBH I saw the video, but I don't know what to say, raincheck.
I'm watching STD, the third episode of the new season, and they're already re-introducing that retarded mushroom drive that lets them jump to any point in the universe. So of course a 1000 year old ship (!!) will have the technological edge in this future. Unbelievably retarded.
This STD crap is ridiculous. There no way I can suspense my disbelief when a thousand year old ship can take a hit from two 32nd century torpedoes, and that a crew from this ship can outfox their 32nd century opponents in regards to tech. Like wtf, there a scene where a Trill girl gets lectured by the gay Discovery engineer.
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>>6936 Design has always been problematic on these vessels, due to how hard it is to configurate the inside with the outside. If some of the older series ships were built accurate to the set blueprints then it was shit anyways. Those were built to 7:8 scale - literally a ship for manlets. Not sure about the other technical blueprints that were created at one point, but they were shit too for other reasons. For instance, when you attempt to reconcile the Enterprise-D model used for the show with deck heights and interior layout, shits fucking fucked. None of it makes any sense and is wildly inconsistent, like the model was built in stages and no care was taken to ensure the windows and decks were placed accurately. A realistically revised Enterprise-D would have a noticeably different exterior window layout all over, but particularly in the "neck" and in saucer where a lot of them are long, awkwardly-placed floor/skylights more then practical windows. >So how would it look accurately? you'd probably want to start with the bridge/deck 1 or ten forward/deck 10 as reference and work from there. Nearly all the windows in the saucer would be shorter and you'd probably have a lot more of the 'notched' windows like you see at the bottom of the saucer. The neck may or may not be spaced correctly, but aesthetically you've got a lot of weirdly-positioned windows, but that's not strictly a problem. Autists try to 3D model the Enterprise-D complete interiors from time to time and always complain about problems matching the decks to the windows seen the models. They end up having to partially disregard the blueprints or the models or both. >>16724 >>18450 >>18463 Time travel was already broken enough a feature of 'Trek' and it's been trivialized outright. >>17926 As a part-time cameraman it makes me want to take whoever edited the shots and bang their head on a keyboard.
>>18480 >Time travel was already broken enough a feature of 'Trek' and it's been trivialized outright. Time travel was rather mild in scope though, at best they were travelling back to the 20th century, or were confronted with shenanigans from hundreds of years in the future, that they didn't understand and were merely dealing with the hand they were dealt with. In STD, they are travelling a thousand years into the future, beyond the Temporal Cold War from ENT, and are playing an active role taking on the faction from that time, and it's not believable.
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Soooo Space Toilets, how do they work in Star Trek. I think it reverse-replicates the matter. ENT toilets at least still used water to at least move the waste around, I know that Archer had a shower in his quarters so I doubt plumbing was much different. I think you just used a toilet which had replicated water, or some liquid in it, and when it "flushed", it just unreplicated anything in it. I'm not sure if they did anything else, like some sort of system that cleans your ass while you're sitting on the toilet, like the Japanese toilets, but with the same sonic technology as sonic showers. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Toilet IRL the current ISS uses NASA, Russian and European tech. The Russian Orbital Segment has its own toilet and water recycler and the US Orbital Segment also had its own toilet and water. The Space Shuttle, as far as I know, mostly stored everything on board, since missions were rarely longer than a week. Soyuz's toilet is the same case, it stores it, but I think liquid can be taken out and fed into the water recycler, while waste is kept inside, and will be burned up when the Soyuz does orbital re-entry. Russian modules have their own water recycler, which I've heard produces better tasting water because it adds minerals. No idea what Dragon 2 and Starliner will do.
I'm watching episode five of STD and they've reached 31st century Starfleet Headquarters. The design choices are fucking awful and uninspired. >hey how should Starfleet Headquarters in the 31st century look like <let's just ramp up the Apple Store aesthetic, more clinical and minimalistic
Okay I have bitched about STD quite a bit but the third season actually does feel a lot like an improvement. Characters are less snarky and the setting is less grimdark (although still dark but it does have some optimistic moments), and the music has improved a lot, and became one of the key elements to invoke emotion because the characters can't really do that. Burnham still doesn't work for me and Georgiou is a ridiculous character who should just be killed off because she's literally worse than Hitler and comically evil yet works for Starfleet. They're also going soft on the memberberries, although this episode has one particular big one. The fact that they draw the memberberries now from DS9 and VOY might imply that they finally got their heads out of their asses and went beyond "member Spock? Member Enterprise?" It's super woke though. Last two episodes had a non-binary character and a transwoman. I don't particularly mind it as long as they don't go down the road of a black Mary Sue with Burnham the last seasons. The pacing is also considerably slower - the shaky cam shots and people shouting unintelligible stuff over each over during an action scene is still there but much, much less. A lot of the meat of the show now seems to be putting characters into very emotional confrontations, it has an episodical feel towards it, although it's still fully serialized, they seem to go for a "mission of the week" sort of rhythm embedded in the larger story. However, it still misses the typical moral and philosophical challenges of the old Star Trek, I've seen none so far, besides constant references to Federation values. Can't say much about the storyline so far, although they set up some eerie mysteries that do sound strange and interesting, like the fact that nobody knows what the "Burn" was, an apocalyptic event, and that strangely everybody knows the same music piece inexplicably, there are also possible implications that they are actually not in the 31st century because some stuff feels sketchy. Problem was in the first two seasons they also gave us some mysteries but were resolved absolutely horribly, with the Red Angel being Burnham herself, that was even predicted by the retards from /strek/ back when 8chan was around. If they manage to not fuck it up, keep the pace and give us a decent resolution, this season might actually be a somewhat decent sci-fi piece - with the three big weaknesses of a) rushed character development, b) problems in regards to the suspension of disbelief with a 1000 year old ship standing their ground and c) some uninspiring aesthetic choices despite STD clearly focusing a lot on aesthetics this season. It's definitely better than Picard although that's an incredibly low bar. The actress who plays Burnham tries to act her heart out this season but she is just no very well written, feel kinda sad for her.
Watched episode 6 of STD, that was a snoozefest. Basically they now have to carry out sidequests to gather "black boxes" which may or may not contain information about the cataclysmic event called The Burn. So far it's been a "rogue planet of the week" deal, with some asshole warlord terrorizing workers and then gets taken out by Mirror Universe Georgiou due to her being a bigger asshole. The rest is "relationship building" but I still couldn't care less for those characters. There is nothing exciting or interesting about those characters, you don't want to see them being pushed to the edge because everybody is super hectic and snarky anyway.
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>>19108 >they now have to carry out sidequests to gather "black boxes" man that's totally different from having to go to all the red angel sightings, I'm glad they're trying new things :) on an unrelated not finished DS9 for the first time yesterday, what a journey! RIP Damar, what a redemption arc god damn though the wheels clearly started to come off in S7 for everything but the war-arc. still, up to S6 the quality was much more consistent than in TNG, especially when comparing the early seasons. now that I've had peak trek I feel empty tho, from here it's all downhill
>>19111 In regards to season 7, I do appreciate that they ended it with an actual fight, Sisko vs Dukat in the Pah-Wraith cave, and a bittersweet conclusion of both of them "dying", so it really did pave the way for fully serialized epic shows of our current times up to the end, I just think they could have moved the players into their final positions a bit more elegantly, I don't know anybody who liked this Dukat-Wynn storyline, or liked that Dukat transformed himself into a Bajoran (I thought Marx Alaimo looked badass in that Cardassian make-up, while not being the most imposing/charismatic stature himself without it). I guess it's a somewhat logical conclusion of his ongoing obsession with Bajorans, but from a dramaturgical standpoint it didn't really work. I think overall the increased level of mysticism and literal magic somewhat doesn't fit a Star Trek show, that includes Sisko's transformation into a black Bajoran Jesus. I think there were multiple ways to conclude the show in a better way, the writers had all the cards in their hands (there is even an alternative ending suggesting that the entire Star Trek universe is made up in the mind of a writer locked in an asylum in the 20th century), and they didn't play it that well. It feels a bit all over place. The war story works just as good as in season 6 though. My favourite episode is The Siege Of AR-558 in this season, they ramped up the musical score too. It's Star Trek combined with a grimdark epic war drama, but of course it actually works unlike in Kurtzman's nuTrek. The reason the all-out war works so well is because there is no "trigger" to turn off the main villain which they constantly find to defeat the overpowered Borg, but instead it was a dragged-out conflict with all the Alpha Quadrant races uniting, admittedly with a little bit of diplomatic deception, to finally beat the Dominion by fairly outcompeting it (nevermind that divine intervention in S6E6 with the wormhole). The second reason why it feels like such an intense ride is because they spend three seasons to have a slow build-up before shit hits the fan, I like season four and five due to the gloomy feeling of impending doom that puts the Federation on the brink of destruction. Besides the Borg, they've never met an Empire that clearly is superior in might, it was about time the Federation, becoming self-rightious at times, had its comeuppance. I actually do wish they could remake DS9 with a HBO budget and a better ending. But then again I would realize what people would be in charge of it, so better not.
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>>19113 >I don't know anybody who liked this Dukat-Wynn storyline I didn't mind, a bit clunky and rushed, but the idea was well set-up ahead of time, the characters worked and it worked for the characters at that point. Bit schlockey to have literal cursed objects with demon like aliens in them but we've had sillier on star trek. Underwhelmed by the (lack of) celestial combat with the wormhole aliens tho. Could have done more with it. But that was true of most of the show I think, they aimed big, beyond their league, and succeeded, if not perfectly. It's like that one episode of star trek with vulcan baseball team... >there is no "trigger" to turn off the main villain Yeah it's a damn shame this little trope has escaped the folklore/fantasy realm and metastasized. Very pleased they avoided that, though the supposed back and forth in the war often felt very abrupt. >I actually do wish they could remake DS9 with a HBO budget and a better ending. They should do a new and competent space opera with a HBO budget, not remake something that probably can't be replicated. Actors/chemistry comes to mind, and the fact that you can't afford to spend another four-five seasons building up to what we know is coming. As far as new goes the Expanse was good so far but I don't think the setting scales up, frankly. We need something with a different focus and a clean start. And a bit less gloomy overall. Orville could do it if they made a soft reboot in a next seasons, replaced the uniforms and interior decors, but for now it remains a bit too silly and slapdash.
Friendly reminder that Deep Space Nine isn't Star Trek and Babylon Five did it better anyway.
I tried getting into start trek, started watching one of the recent one (discovery). It was so shit I dropped it halfway into first season. It's just bad, garbage writing, garbage plot, garbage ideology.
>>19163 >tried getting into Star Trek >so I watched Discovery Anon... please don't do this.
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I'm personally betting on the collapse of capitalism around midcentury by my calculations, boss. The rate of profit still has room to fall. Maybe it'll last longer. Hard to say. But really capitalism is like the Borg. People say the Ferengi are the capitalists but nah, they're just the small merchants and traders wandering around. The petit bourgeois, destined to be assimilated. Capitalism consumes everything, commodifies everything, absorbs everything including whole countries and cultures and ideologies (which is why they have no problem selling you a t-shirt with Che Guevara's picture on it). As long as it smells like money. And then they plug the "drones" into a VR simulator called liberal ideology. Look at Uber. (Uber of Borg.) They don't make anything. They don't even make a profit. The investors make a profit, but that's because it's just a "vehicle" to recapitalize their money into a firm that just destroys everything else like the Borg. They have destroyed and assimilated the taxi cab companies which had unions for this worker-drone army of "independent contractors" who they can pay less. Now Uber is destroying the entire restaurant sector because Uber Eats "eats" the margins that these restaurants depend on to survive. Uber is not part of the productive economy in that sense, it's part of the financial economy and like a giant vampire or scary space robot thing is just going suck up everything into itself. Really though, it's profitable for the investors specifically and the destruction of the productive economy by Uber and many other companies like that functions as a massive wealth transfer to an unproductive class of parasites, devouring its host. Indeed, capitalism is heading for a major crisis. https://youtu.be/vPzJSBHG4pI
Pleasantly surprised about Voyager, every epidode has been a good old space adventure, very little cringe so far. No real compelling characters tho. Very much a TNG throwback
>>19359 Much like Data in TNG, the doctor is the most interesting Voyager character.
>>19359 If you already like VOY, you'll be in for a joyful ride. By the end of season three, the stakes will rise a lot, and season four and five are the best of the series. A new fan-favourite character will be introduced. The end of season 3, season 4 and 5 in VOY rival peak TNG in my view.
Question: I just watched the Voyager episode that had space amoebae try to fuck the ship, and in the episode it is noted that Neelix's gf (of whom he is very jealous and protective) is less than two years old. Also he wanted to have a daughter with her who "looks exactly like her". Does that make Neelix a nonce and a sicko?
>>19456 With Kess? The way I understood it they just age really fast. >Does that make Neelix a nonce and a sicko? He is most definitely a sick fuck. Afaik most fans of the show dislike him somewhat, as a comedic relief he's lame and as a character he falls short. If I had to do a ranking: >The Doctor >Seven of Nine >Chakotey >Janeway >Tuvok >Kess >B'lanna Torres >Harry Kim >Tom Paris >Neelix
>>19465 True enough, it's hard to say what they were thinking with Neelix - no good angle for comedy, too bland. They should have kept the cardassian spy around to provide acerbic commentary in stead imo. Neelix is just moderately affable and useful without ever really being essential so far. Nonce complaint was mostly in jest. Still, the "age rapidly" excuse only works if you don't think about it too much - you cannot accelerate life experiences, so in that respect the unbalanced aspects of the relationship remain. But you know what, fuck it - trek needs to be weird. That's the point of nearly all the intercultural moral dilemma episodes, and I wouldn't want it any other way. It's what elevates the show, in all its awkward glory. Only change I would make to the character ranking is maybe move Chakotey down a few pegs, though it's a close call either way. The longer I watch the more it strikes me how atypical the cast of DS9 was compared to voyager and next gen - one was nothing but big personalities, the others mostly lacking them.
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Random thought about Voyager now that I'm halfway into S2: wow the Kazon are such crappy villains what were they thinking? Can't wait until the Borg show up, these mad max type space raiders don't cut it at all. long time villain ranking: Romulans > Cardassians > Borg > Shapeshifters/JH > Klingon >>> Kazon
>>19780 Yeah they are crappy and they ditched them for good after season 2.
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I just watched Season 7 episode 13 "Homeward" >A civilization doomed to extinction is saved by a Federation observer – Worf's human foster brother – in violation of the Prime Directive, forcing the Enterprise crew to actively determine their fate. Based upon material by William N. Stape. Holy shit, this is by far the worst episode of The Next Generation. The liberalism of it all makes me want to shoot someone. How was this even greenlit? >let's just let a shit ton of people die because uwu their culture is special and mystical and we can't intervene. This is some PEAK noble savage shit. Whoever wrote this piece of garbage should be forced into re-education if they haven't hopefully died already. Trying to find an image for this online that reflected the ethical problem of this episode and it's pic related. Just change "What difference does it make" with "Muh prime directive". And instead of Benghazi it's whatever the planets name is. God damn, this was like watching CNN.
>>19784 yeah I don't get that part of the prime directive tbh. if the "natural development" of a culture is about to be cut short an event external to the culture, where is the harm in preventing it, if you can do it undetected? now if the extinction is self-caused then sure, let them reap what they sowed, but that never seems to be the case with these kind of episodes
>>19811 The idea behind it is that by that species becoming extinct, a new, more intelligent species may arise. So while you may be saving one species, you might be preventing the appearance of another, also, because no other species will evolve to intelligence if there is a dominant species on the planet already. That's why the Prime Directive is about non-interference, and not about saving/not-saving a civilisation. You don't interfere, and what happens happens. I think it is liberal to suggest that the act of one person or one ship's crew could significantly alter changes that have been developing for a long time (remember: quantitative change results in qualitative change). At best they can only delay the changes. Of course, the counter to this claim is that people must be protected at all costs. Prime Directive is easy when it's people vs. nature, then you side with people and problem solved. But what if it's people vs. less developed people? Whose side do you go on then? Admittedly, I don't remember the details of the episode, but TNG episodes with these kinds of questions are more about starting a debate, rather than moralising or telling you what to think. They present a problem, and because it is a TV show it has to have some sort of resolution, but that doesn't mean your conclusion at the end has to be the same as yours. What about that Picard's decision not to genocide the Borg? What do you do then? Do you kill a whole species because they are "evil"? No, that would be liberal moralising. You kill them all because their internal organisation and their structure/way of life necessitate destruction of other life. But Picard let's them live... in a very liberal move. Damn, it's like appeasing the fascists. Then the Borg come back and kill a bunch of people.
>>19838 >What about that Picard's decision not to genocide the Borg? God, I hated that. Not Picard's decision but the fact that it ruined the Borg for me, the fact that they can be overpowered by handing them over an unsolvable Rubic's Cube.
>>19841 Data must have had paradox-protection software. Pity that the entire Borg civilization was unable to devise something similar.
God I hate the new series of STD, they want to try so hard to have "THE UNIVERSE MUST BE SAVED!!!" stakes EVERY SINGLE FUCKING SERIES despite the fact that 1) the only series to do that well was DS9 (and that was 2/3rds of the entire show with one antagonist) & ENT:3 vs the Xindi, and 2) Star Trek works best with a 3 or 5 act structure within an episode that can, but doesn't have to, contribute to an overarching plot. Instead STD tries to do a massive overarching plot that the episodes contribute to but also still tries to do the 3 act resolution??? It's a pisstake. At-least Picard was interesting and didn't fuck with the Lore that much at-all (although the ending triggered me so fucking hard).
>>19866 I don't think it's impossible to have a good fully serialized Star Trek series, but STD wants to be both episodical and serialized so It fails to achieve either. >At-least Picard was interesting and didn't fuck with the Lore that much at-all (although the ending triggered me so fucking hard). I found Picard to be worse than STD.
>>19871 Picard doesn't try to be Star Trek, it feels a lot more like a spin-off series á la Torchwood or the like.
Course: Oblivion is the best VOY episode change my mind.
>>19838 The planet was quickly becoming inhospitable for life. By not saving them and moving them to another planet, they were literally just letting them die for no reason.
>>19878 I just don't think anything beats Scorpion I + II because it's like a better, shortened TNG movie. But yeah, Oblivion is definitely among my favourite VOY episodes. But VOY has a lot of episodes like this that nobody remembers but are actually pretty amazing. Other really good VOY episodes: - Latent Image - Equinox I + II (this were actually episdes the way VOY originally was supposed to be) - One - Counterpoint
>>19885 Fair, will add these to my rewatch list. Also ofc, The Year of Hell is really, really good. People give Voyager shit but it had some amazing episodes.
>>19885 Just rewatched Counterpoint, fuck I had forgotten that one, the twist hit me again. Great episode.
So with STD we're just back in the mirror universe. This and the upcoming episodes are playing entirely in the mirror universe. They also ripped some of the aesthetic from Warhammer40k.
Ah man, so rewatching Year of Hell pt1 from VOY, and there is this scene where Tuvok is shaving, and the thing is they have just survived an explosion. And they way they show that they've gone blind is fucking great, really good directing and acting.
>>18066 >What did they mean by this? The Benkarans live in an oppressive society and are likely something of an “internal colony” in Nygean Space
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>mfw seven of nine first shows up in her skintight outfit first time watching voyager and I was not ready for her to be that hot, interest in the show restored


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