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IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan

Official Thread For Discussion Of Moderator Votes Comrade 08/26/2019 (Mon) 02:58:59 No. 1928
Hello, this is a topic that is intended for feedback on matters currently up for vote among the mod staff for all users. I will also include this info on /leftypol/ in case it is missed but for all you gulag-watchers, here it is. Here are the matters currently up for vote;

FAST TRACK VOTE: It is proposed that the pinned reading list topic and the /NEW/ topic on leftypol should be merged into one FAQ pinned thread as was present on the old leftypol, since we are now out of the transitionary period, and to reduce the number of pinned threads. This new thread would give advice for new members and board conduct as well as the reading list. VOTING WILL CLOSE 4AM UTC 27/08

LONG VOTE: It is proposed that Bunkerchan should, ONCE TECHNICALLY POSSIBLE, create a ban list that is publicly viewable that includes the name of the moderator who issued the ban as well as the details of the post itself, so that users can hold their staff to account more effectively. Obviously, no identifying info or IPs should be publicly visible besides vol name. VOTING WILL CLOSE 4AM UTC 29/08

LONG VOTE: It is proposed that voting in this channel on issues which only affect one board (or not all boards) should be limited to only the staff members who administrate those board/s. If you think that all moderators of the site should vote on all proposals, please vote thumbs down to this proposal. VOTING WILL CLOSE IN 72 HOURS AT 3AM UTC 29/08
>>5073 >Tor users cannot post images so don't even bother trying. 1. Tor users can post images. I use Tor, I post images. 2. I'm not talking about posting images, I'm talking about not being able to post anything, even a simple text-only post, because whole Tor network has just been permabanned. >Why are you using tor anyway? If your life is in danger because of leftism then posting on leftypol is the least of your worries and you're just larping. Mass surveillance doesn't work like that. Police won't come get you but your bank won't give you that loan you need and you'll pay higher insurance rates because algorithms give you a higher risk-score. It has nothing to do with your politics or ideology, which are just more data points for algorithms. If you think social credit scoring is limited to China or originates from there then you've been bamboozled by Western propaganda. >>5072 It comes from bunkerchan, there's no CloudFlare's "ATTENTION RETARD" pages or anything like that. But in one of the past instances of accidental Tor bans a mod or dev said something about bunkerchan's backend using CloudFaggotry's tools to issue IP bans, so maybe mods don't even know what exactly CF bans when mods issue bans. I wouldn't be surprised if CF's ultra-smart system saw a couple of recent bans being related to Tor exit nodes and decided to simply ban the whole network the next time a mod wanted to ban some spammer using Tor.
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>>5072 idk but the Tor 500 message is in bunkerchan format, not a cloudflare page >>5073 lol i post images all the damn time, watch me post one right now. the tor image block doesnt work (and shouldnt anyway, dont block image uploads on tor, handle illegal content differently) see what the schizo black flag anon in the leftypol moderation thread is saying. they basically get it. i dont need an excuse to be private, anonymous & secure.
>>5074 cloudflare is literally a glowie mass surveillance tool to harvest all the data here anyway and its absolutely crazy that its even used here, there is no excuse for doing so READ THIS EVERYONE: https://codeberg.org/crimeflare/cloudflare-tor/
>>5075 Are you getting 500 from the entire site or just /leftypol/?
>>5075 And has the 500 error problem gotten worse recently?
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>>5078 not sure about all the other boards, but im getting it here too, just not anywhere near as frequently (though it still takes multiple circuits, maybe no more than 7, sometimes to post), tho i only just started posting on this board as of this thread. blocked attempts posting this reply: 1 (all 500 tor blocks) >>5079 on /leftypol/? absolutely. on here or other boards? dont know inb4 hand grinding intensifies and all i confirmed is that the tweaks are blocking more tor nodes which is the intent =(
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>>5078 It's only on /leftypol/, see image for how it looks like. I'm posting this right now via Tor, other boards also work.
>>5086 >shield is empty my buddy you need to fix that shit asap, set it to the highest/safest security setting, bunkerchan works just fine without scripts surprisingly, it just doesnt have the same interactivity or the svg icons and doesnt save your flag and stuff (even though that could in principle be done with cookies). (got a "500 Your ip was recognized as a known spammer." trying to post this)
>>5077 Because we don't want to get DDOSed maybe?
>>5077 It's good to reread that from time to time because you quickly forget how bad it actually is, combined with the fact that they can do this without any protest. Not that you can do anything about it since CF is now almost everywhere, even here.
>>5087 I change the security level based on the website I'm visiting. I trust bunkerchan devs, and the website doesn't load any 3rd party scripts or media either. The problem with no-JS on bunkerchan is that it's a pain to see who's replying to whom. And for some weird reason the reply links are generated client-side via JS.
>>5074 >Tor users can post images. I use Tor, I post images. You shouldn't be able to. It just goes to show how broken lynxchan or the settings which only space can change are.
>>5074 >CloudFaggotry's tools to issue IP bans Doesn't happen We just ban IP within the board software itself it had nothing to do with cloudflare. The reason we ask is because there might be some configuration wrong in cloudflare that bans you automatically instead of it being in the server.
>>5075 >and shouldnt anyway, dont block image uploads on tor, handle illegal content differently Lol no go run your own child porn site if you want that shit to be up on the front-page every other day.
>>5088 is that actually a present threat or is it just assumed to be? because thats how gangsters like cloudflare keep you under their control and within their perview. >>5089 use tor, avoid cloudflare sites where possible, do not connect to cloudflare sites, use internet archive to view cloudflared pages, contact cloudflared sites and make an appeal to stop using it, always e2ee where possible/feasible, find alternatives to surveillance platforms (invidious>youtube, nitter>twitter (mastadon>twitter), bibliogram>instagram, etc.) >>5090 its not about trusting bunkerchan devs, but about trusting anyone who has access to the server and can modify its scripts. that doesnt have to be someone the bunkerchan devs know is doing it, especially if it is an APT cracking in to inject malicious code. remember: this whole website is being completely manipulated by cloudflare, which decrypts all connections as a mitm and can inject literally anything into the page, controlling what you see (thats how they inject the CFID cookies and email-protection javascript). all it takes is a gag order at cloudflare (a us company) to get it to inject malicious javascript into this website to bug everyone's computer here. that's it, game over, hope you got nothing valuable on your computer to exfiltrate and hope you got a drill to destroy your hard drive, cpu, and gpu. the point of the improved security is not about simple trust, but about protecting you even in the event of trust. unless you are actively using the scripts, it is better to block them. anyway, you can just unblock the scripts using noscript, the shield is global and affects your entire browser. there is no excuse to keep the shield empty, it is basically never even needed to be set below half. yes, it makes no sense why the page generates the reply lists client-side with javascript rather than statically embed them in the page using server-side scripting. and yes following replies can be a pain. how i do it: click on "No." in post to anchor your place in the thread, click on reply link to follow to reply, read, go back a page/hit backspace, then press enter to return to old anchor. remember the last four digits of posts. copy and paste post numbers when replying. its all manual and a hassle, but at least i dont use javascript :^)
>>5093 kill urself fed, the way to solve cp posting is easy: use picture scanning software to block/mark for approval uploaded images which trigger nudity/porn filters, and/or suspend media or user-generated content to RAM in a tmpfs, and/or full-disk encrypt the server drives. that simple. anyone can post cp by simply running Tor->proxy or Tor->VPN to avoid Tor node bans. anyway you are clearly new to the dark web if you seriously think cp is hard to find and that this board has anything to do with it. the days of using clearnet chans to distribute cp have been over for years, thank god, since that means the worry of cp posting on chans is much smaller now.
>>5094 also: so while you may trust bunkerchan devs, do you trust CLOUDFLARE? because it also is injecting scripts right now, which is why the fake email ([email protected]) I just put in the email field is being "protected" by cloudlfare. also, why even trust the scripts anyway? you cant be sure there arent any that arent part of lynxchan / that are server-side hacks, and they arent freely licensed and open-source afaik so you dont actually know what they do.
>>5096 (the reason why this is the case btw is because cloudflare embeds scripts as first-party ones, which is why it doesnt show up on noscript and why you cannot trust even selective script blocking software like noscript to protect you from unwanted scripts)
I know this will be controversial, but everything would be easier for all sides (except spammers) if bunkerchan required registering an account to post, as long as the following is the case: - there is no usernames, you register and log-in with your email, which can be a temp mail like guerrilla - posting works the same as before, without any identifiers - server database ties only your last N posts to your account, bare minimum for mods to do their job - account is activated with a delay (e.g. 1 hour), which is more effective against spammers AFAIK mods already can see your post history based on IP, so this is not a huge compromise, other than driving away impatient newcomers who want to post immediately instead of lurking.
>>5074 >Tor users can post images. I use Tor, I post images WTF mods/lynxchan. Not even 8chan allowed that. Now mods have blocked TOR altogether: https://bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/res/659377.html I wish you had blocked images and maybe also links from TOR posters instead of a full ban (though I'm no mod and don't know how bad it really was). >>5098 Requiring accounts to post anything at all would be a really weird change and totally change the feel and culture here I think. I wouldn't think of this place as a chan anymore. Don't restrict usability more than you have to. If you want that hurdle only to minimize posting illegal pictures, it makes more sense to require account usage only for posting pictures. (Non-registered users could still be allowed to upload posts with pictures, with the post text being displayed together with a placeholder until mod approval.)
GOD FUCKING DAMN IT MY LONG POST WAS EATEN AGAIN. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. I SHOULDNT HAVE TO SAVE MY POSTS IN A TEXT FILE OUT OF PARANOIA THAT IT MIGHT BE LOST IN SUBMISSION. FUCKING DAMN IT. >>5098 blocking links makes no sense and will only make conversation harder because it can easily be evaded and will be a hassle for any genuine linking. if anything needs to change with linking it is the fact that an HTML <META> tag to derefer all links is still not being used and serves as a tracking/privacy risk. its shit like this that makes me think literally no one running the site knows how to code anything, not even HTML, and just runs the lynxchan spaghetti code without modification. im avidly against blocking images because as we all know, images have an important function in imageboards in providing ways of reacting to posts and aesthetically improving long posts by complementing the theme or identifying the anon. removing that basically demotes tor users to being second class participants. also it means i cant upload pdfs of theory anymore and thats no good. i again recommend what the schizonihilist anon in the leftypol moderation feedback thread recommended, to suspend all media to RAM and moderate it in a back channel where vols spend a few minutes checking and bulk approving the media so it can be written to disk. that way the illegal content can simply be deleted/shredded from RAM and never touch the disk at all, and everyone can still upload images. i agree with how using accounts makes it feel no longer like a chan, tho. using accounts in principle is not necessarily a bad thing however because it can open up opportunities for a new way to use chans even while not sacrificing public anonymity, while still being an improvement over forums. but at that point, why even keep public anonymity? make everyone a tripfag and accept the implications of accounts in full. attempts posting: 2 times post was eaten: 1
also i kno that >>>/leftypol/659377 is referring to me and that is honestly a disgusting conclusion that just killed some of the most thoughtful posters on the whole board, including schizonihilist anon. congratulations, u just made leftypol objectively worse even despite the anon and others suggesting alternatives that didnt resort to that. by the way, the united states IS AN AUTHORITARIAN REGIME and currently surveils everyone and everything in it. for you to honestly believe ANY COUNTRY ON THIS PLANET is not already under complete surveillance and that the surveillance is used to suppress political activity and dissent, then you need to please get a fucking clue already and read the wealth of literature and leaks about NSA/GCHQ/interpol activities, starting with the snowden leaks. great job everyone, you just ended the era of effortposting on leftypol, since mainly the only ones still effortposting on leftypol have been doing so thru tor disgusting.
>>>/leftypol/659762 you are so fucking ignorant its amazing. the us is currently being run by a cryptofascist regime that takes cues from alt-right and NRx sources, it is home to the single largest surveillance organization on the fucking planet that is currently logging all https/tls connections ON THE INTERNET in the utah data center, and has a long history of not only persecuting leftists but literally MASS MURDERING THEM you are absolutely FUCKING INSANE if you think being a leftist in the us or any western power without protecting your identity is safe. even blm protest leaders in ferguson were literally all murdered and framed as suicides, and they werent even radical leftists. to call this larping shows you are maximally coping with your own apathy and antiprivacy liberal dogma and should immediate resign from your position.
>>5101 >GOD FUCKING DAMN IT MY LONG POST WAS EATEN AGAIN. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. I SHOULDNT HAVE TO SAVE MY POSTS IN A TEXT FILE OUT OF PARANOIA THAT IT MIGHT BE LOST IN SUBMISSION. FUCKING DAMN IT. I always ctrl+copy what I'm writing to clipboard before posting anything anywhere. I've been burned too many times on too many websites.
also the whole "most spam/bad faith posting is from tor users" is 100% a myth. no proof has ever been given, no evidence has ever been shown, while multiple identifiable effortposters on /leftypol/ all admit to posting thru tor. this is literally a hoax to justify banning tor because you lazy fuckers cant even code past "hello world!", have no interest in solving this problem in a way that supports the users, and are more interested in protecting your delicate sensibilities from seeing unsavory images than you are doing your job in a way that doesnt make users pay the price DO THE RIGHT THING AND QUIT ALREADY.
Since I can't post on /leftypol/, I'll ask here: will Tor be banned across all boards or just /leftypol/? If the latter then I suggest all Tor refugees to take over one of the other boards. Current /roulette/ is basically a fresh new board and has no theme.
>>5107 Tor use is not guaranteed on any boards, if you use a Tor node on a different board it may or may not be banned so post at your own risk for now.
>>5107 tbh /dead/ seems to be both thematically fitting and where many of the effortposting tor posters seem to be "ideologically" coming from. but at this point, consider this the first shot against the torposters. we need to accept that maybe bunkerchan should be treated as dead too.
>>>/leftypol/659919 infosec is not the point of tor you fucking tard, opsec and privsec is. and btw even on public-facing sites infosec can still be practiced, its just not being practiced here. dont use security terms you dont understand, especially when done to defend such a glowie decision as banning tor users >>>/leftypol659959 fed detected, there is ZERO evidence even a MINORITY of nodes are run by CIA/FBI/NSA. anyway this misses the point, the feds want tor to work because they use it themselves for their own covert activities and actively promote it internationally to destabilize countries like iran and china. if tor didnt actually work out of the box by downloading it from the tor project, then it wouldnt be so effective at circumventing censorship internationally. shit like that is clearly glowie and should be banned
>>5109 >a Tor node >not guaranteed >it may or may not be banned WTF does that mean? Will it be based on a random number generator? I'm asking if the whole Tor network will be banned on other boards or not, the way it has just been banned on /leftypol/, which is what we're discussing here. Obviously spammers will be banned on any board, regardless of using a Tor node or not, I'm not talking about that.
>>5111 Well, you might as well use /roulette/ as a /dead/ trial board. But I doubt most Tor posters are ideologically /dead/, IMO it's pretty evenly spread. I'm not denying there's some connection between someone's ideology and their decision to use Tor, but that decision comes also from the personal experiences and just some basic knowledge of how omnipresent surveillance has become these days. I see some tankies complaining about Tor bans as well, for example.
>>5113 seriously, why even ban spammers? it makes ZERO sense like i already said in >>5070. bans only world with static or long-duration IP addresses and a difficulty in changing them. that all goes away with Tor by design. even a one day ban makes no sense when the spammer can just change circuits, tho even that is better than the permarangebans being hamfisted right now >>5114 i agree to a point, tho i have seen an outsized representation of /dead/ (ie post-left nihilist, cryptoanarchist, and syncretic leftcom) perspectives among tor users, which i think is an artifact of shared cultures. its definitely not universal and i dont even think torposters may be majority /dead/ (its a heterogenous bunch), i just think that it is definitely not out of the realm of possibility that torposters are significantly /dead/ (and many probably don't even know /dead/ is around or may not even see themselves as posties, just crypto-anarchists with marxist characteristics). but who knows maybe its just my selection bias. there's always /testing/ btw it seriously got A LOT harder to post here without getting a bunch of 500s, like almost a dozen attempts now, i feel like i shouldnt have even posted if im just serving as the testing ground for exterminating torposters by checking my IPs. make up your minds already, schizo mods, is tor ok or not??
>>>/leftypol/660160 this privacy nihilism is insane and tries to draw a false dichotomy between being a cryptic tech wizard and security grand master, and being engaged with mass movements and regular people. i can do both at the same time and the former actually is what protects my ability to do the latter with a modicum of privacy, security, and anonymity. thinking that the fact we are all on lists is warrant to just not even try is some of the most pathetic, cowardly, cucked antiprivacy liberalism i have ever seen.
>>5116 Seconded
Why is N I G G E R now not allowd?
>>5185 >>>/leftypol/671779 so can we have it back now?
the tor ban isn’t stopping the linkolafag, can we just get it back?
>>5207 It has been petitioned. There isn't much we can do except wait. >>5183 There was an edgy retard spamming it on every thread. It's allowed if you can fool the word filter. It's case sensitive.
leftypol is getting spammed by shit threads. are you reatrds sleeping?
>>5208 Yo mods is the report system working?
>>5218 tor test
>>5218 As far as I know yes albeit some users report difficulties sending their reports.
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tor image test
mods pls delete this thread it's /pol/ provocation and some /pol/yp is constantly bumping it >>>/leftypol/675948 do your fucking job


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