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GETchan VN collaboration project Comrade 06/08/2020 (Mon) 23:57:18 No. 1546
So our idea was as follows (as I understand what we discussed) We want to make a VN in Ren'py because the software/coding is pretty easy. moo_moo knows how to code python for the backend hardkoba does nice sexy art for the characters spurdo does 3d and 2d works and can possibly do the backgrounds and/or other design elements caballo is a writer and can write the novel bit pepe_pp does writing and some art and can assist with those moo_moo also does music (electronic) so can handle that Other people may want to contribute with their skills of course. Plot concept: Main character lives in present day Earth sadly because capitalism and the ongoing social collapse sucks. He possibly idly signs some form agreeing to be part of some preservation experiment if he dies. He then dies shortly afterward, either through suicide or through random accident/calamity MC's brain is stored in a 'science chamber' (or whatever) at a university for research, either because he signed the forms or because he is special in some other way and was picked out. Eventually, his brain simply becomes a display piece/teaching aid for med students. 30-50 years later, the climate crisis comes to a head and capitalist society is destroyed due to resource shortages, wars, et cetera, some years later, the people take power globally and start the work of rebuilding society along communist lines. 150-200 years after our story starts, a team of scientists decides to use MC's brain in an experiment to attempt to resurrect him, possibly they have tried previously and his is the first time it has worked, or the project has never been tried before but a mad scientist at the university decides to try it on a whim with MC's brain. After some time, MC's body is regrown and he awakes in a brave new world, with the last thing he remembers having been his death. He is dazed and confused at first for obvious reasons and does not really know if he's alive or dead. Of course he is told what had happened but doesn't quite understand/believe it. Eventually MC is up and moving around, and he is shown the brave new world by, most likely, the love interests. The utopian abundance of the world actually convinces him moreso that he has gone to heaven/'the good place' and that nothing is really real. That's really as far as we got, but MC has to deal with existential crises like whether anything is real, whether he is even the same person as the one he remembers being (due to consciousness stopping, etc), whether he fits in in this world and if he should have even been resurrected to begin with, and so on. The world: The world should be utopian communism, but will probably not call itself that due to entryism and not wanting to immediately put people off. MC will be amazed by the freedom and choice that people have, the lack of money, the fact that anyone can do basically whatever they want (within reason), and is both in awe and deeply alienated by the new society. MC also finds it hard to fit in because social conventions have changed drastically, with people generally being much more communal, having more loose ideas of who owns what and sharing, people being more sexually open and less private in general, the commonness of polygamy, orgies, et cetera, and the lack of (as he sees it) personal boundaries and so on. We have come to an impasse about the appearances of the people that surround MC. Some of us believe that it would be a society of largely mixed race, healthy and generally attractive looking people who put less emphasis on appearance due to the fact that appearances can be relatively easily changes/corrected/modified. Others would prefer a world of diversity and sexual 'novelty' where people's bodies have been extensively modified to fit their personalities, with the physical form being a representation of the internal mind. People would be diverse, strange, and some would be transhuman (ie. possibly furries, elves, catgirls, or even more exotic thing). So, I guess we have to decide on that. We also agreed that ideally the MC should be gender flexible (he/she/they) to player choice, but I have used he for simplicity. Sex scenes would be enabled in the game put able to be disabled/skipped like many other VNs. Ideally, there should be femboys in the game as romance options as well as women. Anyways, I might have forgotten some things, but that's about as far as we got, I believe. Let's hope we stick with it and the project isn't just an idle idea that is thrown into the ether and forgotten! Inspirations: Everlasting Summer (commie imageboard VN with time travel elements) Looking Backward 1887-2000 by Edward Bellamy (book where person wakes up century later into communism, comes to see it as a utopia, and gets a cute waifu to go along with it, as a comment on the society the author lived in). Let's go GETchan, let's go leftypol and games! leftytrash riot server: https://matrix.to/#/!bvZhLhbbUCZbgvGrNi:matrix.org?via=matrix.org
Edited last time by caballo on 06/08/2020 (Mon) 23:58:07.
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>visual novel >game Pick one.
>>1551 I meaaaan, any non-kinetic visual novel technically counts by that definition.
I'm completely skillless - you guys need someone to do tedious manual shit that doesnt require skill?
>>1594 the most tidious thing for me is making the art, but that requires skill which you apparently don't have.
>>1551 ???? How does a VN NOT fit this definition? I have never seen a VN that didn't have at least some sort of minigame that you eventually get better at. Have you ever actually played a VN or are you just shitting up the thread for no reason? >>1594 No one is completely skillless, anon. You could run the social media marketing and promote it everywhere, write emails to youtubers and streamers asking for them to play it, cheat r*ddit votes, etc. Very important work actually. You could also manage a devblog or devstream and, if it gets big enough, start asking for donos. >>1546 I notice this project also doesn't have a Project Manager/Producer yet? or is that OP? That's extremely important to keep the development organized and on-track, you should get one or two immediately. maybe >>1594 could be assistant producer or something.
>>1546 >Male MC At least let us choose.
>>1607 Don’t worry, you can choose. Here’s an explanation in the long text >We also agreed that ideally the MC should be gender flexible (he/she/they) to player choice, but I have used he for simplicity.
>MC gets perfect communism and doesn't have to work for it Cringe and boring
>>1649 isn't the entire point of the plot to show the internal struggle of a primitive individual, who is based on the modern-day people and carries today's burdens, placed in the most advanced environment possible, tho?
>>1596 >I have never seen a VN that didn't have at least some sort of minigame that you eventually get better at. There's plenty of those anon, unless you consider choosing the right dialog option a minigame but even then some VNs are VERY light on choices that actually make a difference to the story. Hell, there are some VNs that don't have any choices like Planetarian. However, I don't think that makes it 'not a game', or at the very least it's something that belongs in the same auspices as games. It's still a digital audiovisual entertainment experience that is at the control of the player (unlike movies or TV where you press play and they just 'go'). >>1649 Well imagine that you were transported 200 years into the future, do you think you would adapt to it without struggles? >>1651 Yeah pretty much.
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Here's some sketches shared to us by Hardkoba @ leftytrash
What style of OST are you guys going for? Might be interested in helping.
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>>1744 Speedcore.
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Am I going to be able to speed run the game?
>>1744 Hey, think I'm the only one who can do music stuff so far, I figure by the nature of it being futuristic it would be 'electronic', but I guess whatever fits the art and story
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>>1748 I guess it's probably too early in development to -know- and that it'll be mostly up to the script writers to decide what kind of atmosphere they want and how many tracks will be necessary for the proyect, but regardless i'll try to get on riot sometime soon to talk about that stuff. >>1745 God i wish.
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>>1753 mm this project is currently in the earliest stages of pre-production. The basic outline is being worked out this week >>1596 As of right now, spurdo is acting producer since he has the most experience in game development. >>1594 You should introduce yourself in the riot regardless. We really do need more people even those without experience since most if not all of us don't have much of it. You wouldn't feel out of place
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>>1745 >Mokum Though I wouldn't generally classify them as Speedcore.
>>1551 VNs (not kinetic ones) are interactive fiction, meaning borderline games at the least. VN development belongs in this board and Japanese VN discussion belongs in the eventual weeb board. imo >>1546 tl;dr just give me something to draw and then I'll read the entire post.
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>>1768 Can you draw big tiddy scifi catgirls ? If so, get on here https://matrix.to/#/!bvZhLhbbUCZbgvGrNi:matrix.org?via=matrix.org
>>1546 This fractal poop of ideas is the most atrocious concept for a "game" I have ever seen. Where to start? Game mechanics: Nothing is more dull than a visual novel. What people bring up for claiming the genre has interesting games is when the genre gets mixed with something else, which turns out to be, after thinking about it for a sec, not really a defense of the genre. This also means the "supply-side" argument for choosing to make a game in this genre – that it is easy to program, supposedly – is dubious: Yes it is easy, if you stick to a pure visual novel, which is boring as fuck. If you put in a mini-game or whatever that usually means a lot of extra programming irrespective of whether that section only amounts to a small amount of total play time or not. I want at least a few puzzles to solve (this doesn't need extra programming, a VN engine can just have the puzzle interactions through menu choices). Story: Utopian stories are also boring af because barely anything happens. They lack tension. So you are going to have something that is barely a game in a setting that is barely a story. B-b-but, you say, utopia is only the background for the REAL story, romance. Romance in a world where everybody fucks anybody! ಠ_ಠ Oh and I guess everybody also has a super-long life in the future since the player character can be resurrected, so there's no need to hurry with anything as we have time until the heat death of the universe. How to fix this mess(well, some of it): You need TENSION. The story should start with a short civil-war scenario before the time jump. That's more interesting. Some of the places get visited again in the future and look very different. A bit of story-telling through mechanics: In the civil-war scenario you have an inventory and barter or steal. In the future, the inventory turns into a joke: Whenever you need some tool X, somebody hands it to you. How to get to the future: I'm against the brain preservation idea as it implies medicine tech near immortality which is just too much of a good thing which means lack of tension. I'd prefer time travel, but forward only. Some handwavy explanation about you volunteering for an experiment that needs energy from a particular constellation of planets can be used to explain why time travel isn't available after the jump. How to have tension in the romantic future scenario: Sorry degenerates, monogamy is where it's at. There need to be decisions with hard trade-offs to have tension. I think it would be interesting if one potential mate thinks about becoming a pioneer settler on another planet, which is dangerous. The planet is not only far away, but it is also covered in a dense fog most of the time so it's only possible to communicate for a bit every other year or so. The question for the player then is not just about how to get into the pants of that person, but also: Should I convince that person to stay with me on earth? Should I leave with that person? Serious business. The protagonist left in the past his loyal and boring gf. She pleaded him not to go, and now an option is to plead your current love interest to stay. If you choose that option, it would be good for the love interest to not know about the old gf so you don't look like a hypocrite. Meanwhile, as luck has it, people just found some underground ruins from the civil war era. The player's character, who was just a nobody back then, can use his familiarity with the location to try hiding some things and create a bullshit story about a heroic past that never was. This can really bite you in the ass though. Some generic things about VN mechanics. Suppose there are ten situations where the player has four choices. If every route on the decision tree has to be a piece of unique and hand-crafted story, this amounts to having over a million endings. This is not feasible. With ten situations with two choices, the number is drastically lower, 1024, still that is not feasible. So what to do? Some offered choices could be without any difference in consequences, but this feels super-phony. There are two better ways, which can be combined: 1. Choices can be probable in effect. So, the core design of a situation can be simple like having a definitely good choice and a definitely bad choice, then some other options are added in that have various probabilities. 2. Choices have attached point-values (not visible to the player) that count towards a score. There can be also several such scoring tallies working in the background, with a single click on a choice simultaneously helping and hurting in some way (like the goal of being respected in society at large and the goal of being liked by a particular person).
>>1776 holy fuck, have you ever seen a VN? excluding 1 or 2 of your points regarding the story, the whole post stinks
>>1772 >mid girl ...But where's the bulge?
>>1780 Can you point to any statement in that post that is wrong?
>>1791 You are wrong that 'all good VNs have minigames', I don't think that's true at all. In fact I usually find that the VNs with games attached to them have weaker narratives. For example I played this one game that was a combination VN and uninspired JRPG, and it suuuuuuuucked. Basically it seems like you're just asking us to make an entire different game and that's not on, if you wanna make that game, you make it!
>>1792 >'all good VNs have minigames', I don't think that's true at all <What people bring up for claiming the genre has interesting games is when the genre gets mixed with something else A pure VN is barely a game. >In fact I usually find that the VNs with games attached to them have weaker narratives. A good narrative doesn't make a good game. Besides, the outline of a narrative in the OP is absolute dogshit.
>>1772 >big tiddy catgirls I'd rather draw some male characters if you need, but sure I can draw that >>1776 I didn't read the whole post but I agree with what you said about the story. It'd be so much more interesting if there was a war at some point, no matter if it's in the past, present or future. Highly acclaimed VNs that have some sort of romance and different romantic options also focus on the plot first and then on the MC's relationship with the girl in each route. Unless what these guys want to do is more of a galge/charage which is obviously going to be of a lesser quality, but if it's their goal I approve of it nonetheless and would be more effective if they were fully focused on doing that (and not some half-epic serious story-focused, half-moe girl focused VN). But you're wrong here: >Nothing is more dull than a visual novel. What people bring up for claiming the genre has interesting games is when the genre gets mixed with something else, which turns out to be, after thinking about it for a sec, not really a defense of the genre I don't think anyone cares, because VNs are primarily meant to be read. Their goal is not being entertaining as a game, but as a story with a strong visual element. So this point of yours isn't really relevant. >1. Choices can be probable in effect. So, the core design of a situation can be simple like having a definitely good choice and a definitely bad choice, then some other options are added in that have various probabilities. >2. Choices have attached point-values (not visible to the player) that count towards a score. VNs work with flags, doing it with points is doing it wrong. The first way you propose would be extremely simple, and maybe that's a good thing, but that's not generally how VNs work, particularly when there's more than 1 good ending; you need the right combination of choices to get a different ending each time, and may also need it to get into certain routes (obviously locking you out of the others). In some VNs it's immediately clear when you've made a mistake, while in others you find out that you fucked up until the end, so it varies widely. As for your second suggestion: >There can be also several such scoring tallies working in the background, with a single click on a choice simultaneously helping and hurting in some way (like the goal of being respected in society at large and the goal of being liked by a particular person). Yeah, you just described something that flags are capable of. Of course, you can have a mix of flags and points, but it's probably better to only use the two when it's some sort of VN/simulation game hybrid.
>>1803 Oh and also, about the "probable" choices: sometimes in VNs there are choices that have no effect on the story, choices that appear in multiple or all routes at around the same point, and choices that may lead to the same result as another one in a different (parallel) route. In addition, like I said about the right combination (which is generally how VNs work), that means choices don't exponentially increase the number of outcomes (which may be only consist of a small exchange anyway). Taking these two points into account, there's nothing to worry about when it comes to the amount of different scenes, routes or endings. What matters is planning how many different routes, and endings per route will be made (for example, 3 romanceable characters with 2/3 endings each or 6/9 in total). That's not a lot. >>1615 Okay, but now that I think about it, there's only going to be girl and femboy characters, right? Can there be at least 1 non-femboy guy as an option too? >>1677 >>1651 Skipping the revolution is BORING! But I guess you're right. Writing such an event as it happens instead of as a history lesson sounds a lot harder to pull off, especially when you already have to focus on building a future communist world. At least I hope the revolution is explained and we get flashbacks and shit. And the MC gets sad for having missed it
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>>1803 >>1804 >I'd rather draw some male characters if you need, but sure I can draw that Okay, consider yourself hired then! We have a separate dev channel on Riot so if you already have an account I'll need your matrix address to invite you to it. You can provide it either here in the thread or by joining the /trashpile/ riot channel linked above and identifying yourself there.
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Do you guys have a name for the team making the VN?
>>1828 GET⑨ Studio is what we're calling ourselves rn. pepe is the one that came up with it.
>>1804 >sometimes in VNs there are choices that have no effect on the story Already mentioned in >>1776 ("but this feels super-phony"). Another way of cutting down the tree is surprise death awaiting the player in every other corner, also super-phony. >choices that appear in multiple or all routes at around the same point, and choices that may lead to the same result as another one in a different (parallel) route Yes and that's better, and using points and thresholds is a way of implementing just that. I don't want that only decisions close to the end matter and I also don't want that decisions near the end are without effect; and it's easy to arrange things with points and thresholds so that early-to-mid game decisions delete some extreme possibilities and late decisions mostly select between more adjacent ending scenarios.
>>1838 I suppose. I guess for me it comes down to how efficient either is in terms of programming.
I'm wary of having a scenario very far into a super-automatic replicator future –– because what is the player getting out of this (aside from jerking off)? If the scenario is a society with labor vouchers and some things and services decommodified, I think it's easier to relate to; the story can be chock-full with reform ideas that the person playing that can see as applicable in the here and now. Whether the story as a whole is particularly compelling or not, it would be nice if some of the ideas in it lingered on in the audience. For example, in his book "Information Technology and Socialist Construction", Daniel E. Saros floats the idea of dealing with the negative externalities of cigarette smoking by having two types: One that has a steep sin tax applied to it and that you can smoke in public, and one that is much cheaper that you can only smoke at home (of course, the packages and the cigs of each type have their different colors). Many things like that could appear in the story (just passing by without interrupting the plot if the player doesn't inquire about it, people don't like surprise lecturing) and I have other clever ideas about fees and taxes, but I suspect that probably doesn't feel exciting and futurey enough for most of you. There are many other neat ideas like using approval voting, patents being abolished in the future, etc. I think good utopian stuff is really a lot about how people live with each other rather than shiny technology.
Ideas for some scenes: Choosing whether the protagonist is male or female. This can be done inside the story instead of a menu toggle. In an early scene (before the time jump) a kid asks the player that (maybe you are masked because you are right in some bank robbing shit or Covid or whatever) and your choices are male/female/nerd. The game then remembers this. What is class? A scene before the time jump where some guy in your revolutionary group explains to the newbies what class is in terms of bosses, wokers, landlords rather than by income. The player can leave during the sermon. (Don't lecture the player if the player doesn't want to be lectured!) Calling now the future. First person you meet in the future explains changes to you with using "here in the present" and then hesitates a bit and then asks you whether you prefer "here in the future" instead (finding that very amusing for some reason). You meet that person several times throughout the plot explaining changes to you if you ask and the person remembers your choice here. Asking you about your political past. Somebody in the future asks you about that. You can smash together two halves here in any way you want, some of the combinations will get a raised eyebrow (you can still save your ass by saying you are joking). first half: anarcho… anti… revolutionary… pyro… second half: …anarchist …gamer …leninist …monarchist Some responses you get: pyro-anarchist – "Sounds hot." anarcho-leninist – "Sounds like a slur for platformists that was used by both anarchists and leninists." anti-gamer – "Oh, I have no problems with gamers myself… Except those who play visual novels – all perverts."
>>1864 To be clear, there are no replicators and sheer sci-fi technology in the story (at least not as planned), the most far futurey technology we have in it is the sciency stuff allowing MC to be brought back to life (ie serious genetic rewriting/vat growing technology), I have no specific plans for any other kind of device in the story that isn't based directly on technology we already have. Whilst I don't know if we'll have labour vouchers in the story or not (good question), there's no point in establishing a pure fantasy future that the player can't relate to. Hell, I invite you to come on the team if you want to share your ideas, just go use the link above. >>1865 To be clear, we don't want to go too 'fuck it mask off' so we are gonna try play it cool with explicit mention of leftist concepts. After all if only commies want to play the game, it's nothing but an amusing diversion (not that that's bad, but, it's not really our idea). However, thank you for your suggestions, haha.
>>1866 >we don't want to go too 'fuck it mask off' so we are gonna try play it cool with explicit mention of leftist concepts Alright, alright. How about this sensible compromise: Instead of a lecture in Leninism right at the beginning of it (which would be off-putting to many), there's a steamy sex scene near the end and right in the middle of it there's a Leninism quiz with a countdown that goes faster and faster and if you give one wrong answer your character and your entire progress up to that point get killed.
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>>1546 New art of our scientist babe! Though we still haven't really agreed on a name yet.
Ideas for background graphics: I think you could take a few things from the public domain & run that stuff through filters to harmonize the look. There are hundreds of pictures out there of buildings that have never been built, there must be some nice ones by communism enthusiasts among them. There are a few drawings of a building in the book The Human Drift by King Camp Gillette. For some inside scenes, you could take some wallpaper designs from William Morris and the Arts and Crafts Movement. >>1928 Dr. Buri-Guri
>>1869 There's a chapter in The Silver Case where you wander around a building gathering completely circumstantial evidence about a murder, then your mentor/handler drags you into a room and asks you a 100-question general knowledge quiz interspersed with questions about the case. It's pretty badass in context and one of my favourite bits in a VN.
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>>1546 New art of our catgirl babe!
>>1968 Nice design, what's her name?
>>1970 For right now, it's Amaryllis
>>1546 >Inspirations: >Looking Backward 1887-2000 by Edward Bellamy Reading right now. <I was a confirmed sufferer from insomnia and although otherwise perfectly well had been completely fagged out that day, from having slept scarcely at all the two previous nights. <"Ah!" ejaculated my companion with an air of much interest, "I had forgotten the chimneys, it is so long since they went out of use. It is nearly a century since the crude method of combustion on which you depended for heat became obsolete." <I know at any rate that my intercourse that evening with these representatives of another age and world was marked by an ingenuous sincerity and frankness such as but rarely crown long acquaintance. <"The clerk has, then, nothing to say about the goods he sells?" I said. <"Nothing at all. It is not necessary that he should know or profess to know anything about them. Courtesy and accuracy in taking orders are all that are required of him." <"What a prodigious amount of lying that simple arrangement saves!" I ejaculated. <The programmes are so coordinated that the pieces at any one time simultaneously proceeding in the different halls usually offer a choice, not only between instrumental and vocal, and between different sorts of instruments; but also between different motives from grave to gay, so that all tastes and moods can be suited. <Not only justice but civility is enforced by our judges in all sorts of intercourse. You think this writing style is something to emulate?
>>1968 I want to fuck this cat!
>>1974 Finished it. Booooring. It's a lot like being on the receiving end of a sermon. One chapter is literally a sermon (they tune in to these or live music by using the telephone network). I don't see how you can get much inspiration out of that work. Apparently umbrellas aren't a thing in the future, because we have retractable roofs everywhere we go in the year 2000. Are there better utopian works to steal ideas from?
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Thoughts? It might not look like it changed, but I made small adjustments and used a better program so that it wouldn't pixelate as much. (This is the .png file, but I also have a .svg file if y'all want that one) Also, have y'all made a logo for the game, like the one here. If you haven't, I'd be happy to try and make one for y'all
>>2079 >"company" logo Perfect. >game logo How do you make a logo if you don't have a name?
So is this like an aventure game or what
>>2079 Yes. YES. =YES!=

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