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Lolipol Anonymous 09/14/2020 (Mon) 08:44:35 No. 2865
Why a lot of leftists hate lolis? Are they retarded or just thinking loli mean Pedophile?
>>2865 You need to go outside and talk to actual women man, I don't know what else to tell you.
>>2865 You probably will have a better company at /pol/
>>2865 Imma be real with you chief: get some pussy. Some real world pussy, doesn'teven really matter if god tier or Vaush gf tier, literallly find the comfort of a woman in your life.
If you're just into stylistically cute characters, whatever. It's a little weird but being weird isn't terrible. If you sexualize said stylistically cute characters, or use images of characters resembling children as pornography, you are a pedo, and you should get your head bricked in. It doesn't matter if they're "not real" or "ackthually a 500 year old vampire". The social effect, both individually (conditioning and rewarding the brain from sexualizing the child form) and social (In normalizing the idea of pedophilia by both creating a population of pedophiles and normalization of pedophillia by defending their access to child pornography) endanger children, and have a detrimental effect on society as a whole both economically (eg from economic damages brought about by psychological and mental/emotional harm from molestation, which are bared by the entire immediate families & likely friends/descendants of the victim) and socially. The only Socialist/Leftist position is death penalty for all pedophiles AND more importantly, death penalty for pedophile enablers.
>>2866 >>2867 >>2868 spooked af replies expected better from this place
>>2869 were you personally raped or something you sound like a fucking rightoid
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>virtual child pornography
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Cool political thread, dude!
>>2869 Jesus "You like sexualized lolis = Pedophile" You sound like a shittie moralfag making fake correlations between first ans second one. Guy, show me you cientific evidences of being a lolicon means youre a pedophile
because leftypol is filled with edgy tweens who fantasize about executing any group of people they dont like
>>2874 >show me you cientific evidences lmao
NOOO YOU CANT JUST SEXUALIZE THE HECKING PIXELS THAT ARE SHAPED LIKE THE WHOLESOME CHILDRINOS ITS UPSETTING MY SPOOKED LIZARD BRAIN AAAAHHHHHHH
>>2871 Yes but my personal circumstances are irrelevant. Scientifically we can observe that pedophillia generates detrimental social and economic affects, frankly in excess of even murder (unless you happened to murder the guy who was curing cancer). A comrade (economist/mathematician) and I actually went through the trouble of calculating the economic harm of pedophilia once and we determined that the cost born to society by a single instance of molestation or child rape can easily amount to the 9 figure range in $USD, although there is technically "infinite" potential for economic across multiple generations.That is without going into social and thus political harm from allowing this to happen. We know that many pedophiles today are conditioned into Pedophilia by pornography, and usually affecting people who initially had no interest in child pornography. As people adjust to pornography and no longer receiving arousal from their "current level", they shift to more and more extreme material, with the majority of porn addicts eventually finding themselves viewing hardcore pornography of some kind including "lolicon" and other forms of child pornography. Consuming this conditions the brain to sexualize children, and physically changes the way their brain is hard wired. Legalization of pornography broadly and especially lolicon thus produce people who can go on to harm children. Scientifically and morally (from a collectivist/Marxist value system) there is no justification for Pedos and Pedo enablers (eg, those who defend loli and pornography) not to be sent to a gas chamber or shot.
>>2878 "Infinite" potential for economic harm*
>>2878 counterpoint: fuck off
>>2874 >Guy, show me you cientific evidences of being a lolicon means youre a pedophile What is the deifnition of a lolicon?
>>2878 >Scientifically we can observe that pedophillia generates detrimental social and economic affects, frankly in excess of even murder fucking lol this is some epic bait
>>2882 Economic damage from physically removing/killing a person amounts to a lower dollar value in terms of economic harm even if assuming said person is young and factoring in a lifetime of labour, yes. Economic damage is not the only criteria in which we can measure how harmful a thing is, but it is useful.
>>2883 >more pedos means theres a larger chance that some children might not be as good labor machines in the future i mean, it's certainly an argument... i guess
>>2883 >>2878 Oops, slight error. Meant to say "8 figure" not 9 figure. $14-$20 million is a reasonable assessment but again, there is *potential* for ""infinite"" or far larger economic damage when spread across a larger frame of time (eg several generations)
>>2878 So you are against porn in general?
It is disgusting that this thread hasn't been deleted yet Pedos get the wall unless they accept treatment And pedo defenders just get the wall
>>2886 Yes, as the socialist movement has historically been, and still is everywhere outside the west.
>>2887 me right and good, you wrong and die ban bad man >:( ungra
>>2869 What's the proof that a loli anime character is equivalent to a real life little girl for a lolicon fan? What is the proof that the idealized "loli character" is not simply a unique creation of anime similar to a pokemon? A loli character seems so highly stylized (most of the time) that I can't say they ever make me think of even human beings much less real little girls. >We know that many pedophiles today are conditioned into Pedophilia by pornography This doesn't sound like a very scientific statement. Is there a study that relates convicted pedophiles and porn addiction?
>>2889 Yes
>>2888 >social conservatism=socialism damn i didn't realize i was on stupidpol
The only reason this is even an issue is because people have it in their heads that sex is some sort of special “other” which normal logic doesn’t apply to for some reason. The only reason we see children engaging in sexual behavior as a negative is because we see sexuality itself as a negative.
>>2893 this sex is the ultimate and final spook
>>2892 Being pro/anti porn has nothing to do with "conservativism". I think you'll find the vast majority of socialists in the world are in favor of having pornography banned, as we have historically seen in basically all socialist states. Science is on our side, as it has long since been determined pornography is detrimental both to the health of individual consumers and also the well being on society. "Socialists" who have a problem with banning porn are almost always Americans or Westerners, if not upper class, and also usually addicted to consuming pornography. The idea that these are "choices" to be made by individual consumers falls back on liberal/far right wing idea of perfect rationality in consumers, which is a bizarre myth invented to justify liberal capitalist economics and neoliberalism.
>>2894 abolish sex
>>2895 what if we take money out of the equation should distributing exhibitionist video tapes or files still be banned?
>>2888 You realize what happens if you ban porn, right? You know all those sites where child porno is currently hosted, the ones that are the harder to reach than just typing their name in google? That's where your regular porn is going to be hosted if you banned porn. You would literally have vanilla porn alongside CP. Thus CP would become normalized. You want this?
>>2894 And this applies to every instance of sexuality, from fringe to mundane. Sex is the eternal “other” and all this bickering about what is and isn’t moral just comes from, in my opinion, a fundamentally flawed base premise that sex is somehow fundamentally different from every other human activity and behavior
>>2897 Depends on the material. If it is intended to be used as a sexual/masturbation aid, then yes. If it was not intended as such but is primarily used as a sexual/masturbation aid, yes also.
>>2900 fucking lol
>>2898 The Socialist position should be to ban/heavily alter the internet, eg, eliminate individual websites. A single "homepage" linking to various sub-sections, eg academic, education, entertainment, and so and so on. The model adopted by the DPRK today is a perfectly reasonable example for how the internet should exist under socialism.. Actually running an individual "website" should be impossible, and if necessary the infrastructure which enables this to happen should be destroyed.
>>2900 ok now you sound like someone that was raped as a kid
>>2903 Why?
>>2899 >ywn be an inorganic species that isn't spooked to constantly be obsessed with the sanctity of sexual reproduction and protecting muh children
>>2903 >unironic DPRKtard oh no n oN nO nO ONONNO!!
Jap-loving freaks
>>2905 The entire internet as it exists is a reflection of liberal capitalism and liberal capitalist ideology and society. "Social media" and webpage ownership are in the grand scheme of things bizarre phenomena which could have only been born out of a society infected with extreme individualism and hyper-competition. I think if the internet was invented in almost any other human society, it would look entirely different. Even a different capitalist society which just happened to not be so liberal. The way the internet has been structured, and both the discourse and way this discourse occurs as well as it's general use necessarily reinforce and condition towards liberal ideology and individualism. On top of that, our goal as socialists is to create a "social" society, and a society in which social atomization has been crushed, with strong local working communities, will not fit the kind of model of internet which exists today. It'll either be neglected, or said model will malform society and create potential for reaction. "Ban the internet *as it exists*" is a decent Marxist-Leninist position, and again, most Communists in the world would not be opposed to this save for the pety-bourgeois of the 2nd/3rd world and internet addicted westerners.
>>2909 if you hate the liberal internet so much maybe you should do us all a solid and log off
>>2910 "If you hate capitalism why do you have a computer produced under capitalism" Bourgeois/reactionary positions create bourgeois/reactionary responses.
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>>2909 >most Communists in the world would not be opposed to this
>>2909 The entire internet as it exists is a reflection of liberal capitalism and liberal capitalist ideology and society. because the people who control the internet right now are liberal capitalists, not because the internet is inherently like this by most means the internet in theory is more of a socialist utopia than the real world ever could be. there's functionally no concept of scarcity of space or goods (data).
>>2911 it's called a joke
>thread tangentially related to politics >almost 50 replies already This place is a joke.
>>2915 personally i just love these threads that have pedo related discussion in them because it's so easy to piss off the spooked reactionaries that are drawn to them like flies
>>2913 The very idea of "running a webpage" is just a digital form of property ownership. The idea of individual owning a piece of territory on the internet could only emerge in a society with a concept of "right" of private property ownership.
>>2917 do you understand that the only reason private property ownership is bad is because of scarcity right? because by owning you're denying something to somebody else this problem does not exist when there are a theoretically unlimited number of webpages
Sorry for not having an English source, i Translate you fron the article Is a person who consumes lolicon, shotacom or yaoi a pedophile? No. To assess whether a person is sexually attracted to children (paedophilia), the consumption of materials such as lolicon, shotacom or yaoi is not a sufficient criterion to either confirm or rule out that we are dealing with a person with paedophilia. Therefore, it is not possible to respond in absolute terms in a positive or negative way. Each case has to be analysed individually. Not all people who consume lolicon, shotcacom or yaoi have sexual inclinations of a paedophile nature nor are all paedophiles interested in or consume this type of sexual images. Various studies have also failed to link the association between paedophilia and lolicon - They are not considered a crime against the freedom and sexuality of minors. -They do not constitute an apology for the sexual exploitation of children. -They are not included in the current Penal Code as examples of child pornography. SOURCE: https://angelblau.com/lolicon-shotacom-y-yaoi-son-ilegales-en-espana/
>>2920 >legal definitions in a moral/ethics thread why
>>2865 >I want to fuck these kids >NO WAIT WAIT COME BACK <The kids aren't real so its not creepy t.Average lolicon
>>2924 How do you fuck them?
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>conditioning and rewarding the brain from sexualizing the child form If the behaviour is conditioned, then it's possible to condition someone out of it. This doesn't call for a death penalty, just rehabilitation. >A comrade (economist/mathematician) and I actually went through the trouble of calculating the economic harm of pedophilia Source: your ass This is such a fucking word salad.
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spoiler please
>>2923 Anon, legal definitions are, in most cases based on moral, out of that, you can read the other part of the message, that gives you the opinion of the bast majority of Sexuality and psychology experts, the fact of, Lolicon doesnt have any relation with pedophilia (this is based on a study based on 21 other studies). The same study says that sexual toys doesnt help or stop violations
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1) I don't hate loli, loli are cute girls. I hate sexualization of loli, because regardless of what your shitty arguments are, they're CHILDREN and often enough, anime-face or not, they are depicted with fairly accurate child-like bodies and moreover, child-like behaviours. 2) This 'discussion' is cringe and belongs on /pol/ and has already been done. Last time this argument began the Vols had to step in and ban people and say stop, so don't start this shit argument again.
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I guess lolicons are a very unintrusive type of pedophile. I'm OK with them, they have their perversion well under control. The art, sex dolls, etc. are very effective containment of such tastes. We should encourage as many pedos as possible to settle for being lolicons instead of molesters, and provide them with plenty of material. Then execute the ones who can't or won't :3
>>2934 1) Lets accept they are children, and then, what? correlation between Pedo and loli doesnt exist, stop doing mental gymnastics. 2)Anon...
>>2942 >Then what <The correlation doesn't exist And here we go again. Unironically jump off a bridge.
>>2874 >>2871 >>2890 >All this shit <N-noooooo don't call us out!!!! >>2898 >If you bann porn it will normalize CP because porn will be hidden That's such backwards logic. I'm fairly sure that 90% of the world population does not know how to get on the darknet and its porn sites. so fuck off. Also normal porn is already on the darknet as well idiot.
>>2943 Are you retarded anon? there are no cientific evidente supporting your dumbass point, go to kill yourself.
>>2906 <protecting children is just moralism, it's totally not demonstrated that children are very impressionable and what they see or do affects their adult lives. Should I bring up the fact that many of the worlds worst paedophiles, rapists and serial killers were mentally scarred by things like seeing sexual acts and abuse and were sometimes the subject of this right? We see this all the time, such as in modern culture, where the constant exposure of young girls and 'dancing' has led to pre-teen girls twerking while having money thrown to them on the street and young boys being "drag queens" and performing in gay bars. This is literally what capitalist Weimar Germany was like before the Nazis took power.
>>2908 >The one time you agree with Pol-Pot fags
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mean lolicons committing the most ebil thoughtcrime of all Zizek is right when he says that child sexuality is the biggest taboo of liberal society
Guys, its easy. im gonna tell ya again, SHOW CIENTIFIC PROOFS OF CORRELATION BETWEEN PEDOPHILIA OR GTFO. You cant, there no serious cientific researches reaching this stupid conclusion.
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>>2946 It attempts to normalize the idea of child sexualization. Real or drawn is not the point and never was. Neither are we debating whether lolicon should be legal or illegal. Of course lolicon is just fictional art, But art by defenition is a representation of something. What does lolicon represent as an art? It represents the sexualization of prepubescent children and minors. >dere's no evidence 1) The ONLY people who keep arguing for loli porn are the Japs who make it (and we all know how fucked they are) and Westerners addicted to porn consumption 2) Lolicon originates from a book called Lolita about an abusive paedophile's attraction to an underage girl. The very aesthetic of loli is that of an underage girl. If you're fapping to loli you are attracted to the body and the implication of it being underage. The meaning of ロリコン so does 小児愛 is almost same as pedophile if you look into japanese wikis ,dictionaries or blogs, and 小児愛 is the psychological term for ロリコン. https://old.reddit.com/r/AskSocialScience/comments/bcxndd/if_pedophilia_is_a_mental_illness_why_isnt_there/ >There's no science Because there are very few people interested in researching such a disgusting topic. Moreover very few paedophiles will admit to BEING paedophiles and not all paedophiles are the same. inb4 'muh erection' Chikotilo was notable for having erectile dysfunction when aroused so it is just as likely in any other such candidate. Moreover a limit in sample size is also a problem. "A press release issued by the University of Chicago Press Journals states that a new study to appear in the Journal of Consumer Research shows that social change is driven when information reaches easily influenced people who then influence other easily influenced people." Spataro J. writes: "Similar to the general population, CSA victims who died as a result of self-harm were predominantly aged in their 30s at time of death. Most had contact with the public mental health system and half were recorded as being diagnosed with an anxiety disorder. Our data highlight that CSA victims are at increased risk of suicide and accidental fatal drug overdose. CSA is a risk factor that mediates suicide and fatal overdose." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20170453/ https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-01-people-susceptible-social-age.html "Lolicon is a genre/theme of Anime in which underage female anime characters are sexually depicted." Now why would anyone want to see underage female characters depicted sexually? Because they're attracted to that, which is essentially paedophilia, fictional or not. Also to return to "lolicon in Japan" Japan has seriously cracked down on lolicon recently because they have 3rd graders with STDs and parents renting out their daughters for sex. From 1999 to 2012, Child abuse in Japan has increased by 5. 7 times. That's a pretty significant jump in such a short amount of time if you ask me. The rates of sexual abuse among high-schoolers and elementary kids are increasing in around the same rates, But for other forms of abuse (while both ages are still increasing) elementary kids are rising at a faster and more extreme rate. Http://www.Japantoday.Com/category/crime/view/saga-woman-arrested-for-forcing-daughters-into-prostitution http://www.Wsj.Com/articles/SB844189550290273000 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-07-11/1st-person-arrested-for-cg-child-pornography-in-japan http://www.japanator.com/fffuuu-tokyo-s-anti-loli-bill-passes-in-commitee-17722.phtml&mainnav=&track http://www.ipsnews.net/2003/03/japan-officials-clamping-down-on-underage-sex-offered-on-line/ http://www.japansubculture.com/underage-japanese-girls-learning-to-sell-themselves-online/
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>>2951 Nice try, but its my turn. >Because there are very few people interested in researching such a disgusting topic. Moreover very few paedophiles will admit to BEING paedophiles and not all paedophiles are the same. inb4 'muh erection' This is fragrantly no true. >The meaning of ロリコン so does 小児愛 is almost same as pedophile if you look into japanese wikis ,dictionaries or blogs, and 小児愛 is the psychological term for ロリコン. Its used as a synonim, but this doesnt proof anything actually, nippongos even know what is a lolicon and what is a pedophile. Most of the sources you give are not related to lolicon, im not a defensor of CP or childres sexualization of real girls. Some sources: https://unnecessaryexclamationmark.com/2019/09/30/japan-vs-the-un-the-fight-for-artistic-freedom/ https://academia.edu/3665383/Lolicon_The_Reality_of_Virtual_Child_Pornography_in_Japan https://newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/pharrell-williamss-lolicon-girl/amp https://prostasia.org/blog/why-the-un-is-wrong-to-equate-drawings-to-sexual-abuse/ https://knowyourmeme.com/forums/serious-debate/topics/60653-so-what-doesnt-make-lolicon-pedophilia https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MZk8bm6fbAF1Dcu2G24M1P7pmDoGbz-f6pJaPM5QfxU/edit https://unnecessaryexclamationmark.com/2019/09/30/japan-vs-the-un-the-fight-for-artistic-freedom/ http://hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1999-effects-of-pornography.html https://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html http://cbldf.org/2012/07/danish-report-discredits-link-between-cartoons-and-child-sex-abuse/ "it was Japan’s Women’s Institute Of Contemporary Media Culture that gave the retort. Speaking on behalf of the Institute, Kumiko Yamada’s statement raised two key points: that violence in fiction does not threaten the rights of real women, and that manga is a field of expression that Japanese women have cultivated for themselves. Both of these remarks are relevance to the current controversy over lolicon. No causal link between lolicon fiction and the sexual abuse of real children has been established by researchers and experts in the field. Indeed, studies have shown that countries that have legalized ‘virtual child pornography’ have seen a decrease in sex crimes against children. In Milton Diamond and Ayako Uchiyama’s 1999 study on ‘Pornography, Rape and Sex Crimes in Japan’, they observed that the while the lolicon ‘boom’ occurred in a time when sex crime reporting went up overall, reports of child sexual assault went down, which also parallels a lack of positive correlation observed in Denmark." "Danish Report Discredits Link Between Cartoons and Child Sex Abuse by cbldf • July 25, 2012 • Comments Offon Danish Report Discredits Link Between Cartoons and Child Sex Abuse The Copenhagen Post reveals that a report issued by experts at Sexologisk Klinik discredits claims that cartoon depictions of underaged characters engaging in sex acts encourage people to commit child sex crimes in real life. The report to the justice ministry states: “We have had to acknowledge that there is no evidence that the use of fictive images of sexual assaults on children alone can lead people to conduct sexual assaults on children.”
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>>2952 >Muh Kumiko!!!! >Muh studies saying its not the same because X details >Muh crime correlation = causation <Dead Dove Do Not Eat Fuck me you're just spitting out the same tired pedo-defenses I don't know what I expected. >pics Damn I thought my memes were mediocre but those are just sad. Just make it easier for everyone - yourself included - and just end this misery >Its used as a synonim, but this doesnt proof anything actually The sheer spelling failure of this convinces me that either you're a child or a genuine retard. >Most of the sources you give are not related to lolicon Nice try in ignoring the point fag. >fragrantly no true The fuck does that even mean? And no, paedos do not tend to be open about who they are. A lolicon is sexually attracted to drawn depictions of young children, PERIOD. Spamming the same tired pedo-defense links is not an argument.
>>2952 >A Danish Report discredits LOL do you believe every headline you read? I feel like you're just believing any fucking source that backs your shitty argument and ignoring the ones that don't The only good thing about this thread of shit is that it raises PPH.
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>>2952 >pic 1 <head only <hurr if you see child you mentally ill No.
>>2954 >ignoring the ones that don't that's exactly what you're doing, except that you don't even have any studies backing your point, that drawn loli increase child sex abuse
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>>2952 >Nice try, but its my turn. Lmao, is this some turn based game now
post loli and shut the fuck up everybody
loli is turbo degenerate crap obviously provided to us by the turbo fascist shithole of Japan. Despite fascist's cries about "muh degeneracy" they're the ones who get most involved with it, the movie "Saló" explains this phenomenon.
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>>2956 >N-no u Your studies are a bunch of pseud shit that you didn't even read. >>2959 Uhhh no, read the OP, LOLIPOLitics In fact just go to >>>/GET/ as long as you don't say anything mean about trannies and gays they'll welcome your loliposting, just go there and stop posting under-age lewds here. If you want PETIT, there is a flat thread. Also see pic related and get some help. >>2915 This place is primarily inhabited because of /leftypol/ moving here. Therefore the majority of users are interested in political conversation... but I agree, politsrach is fucking cancer. >>2925 Body pillows, onaholes, jerking off to the images, VR-suits, ERP etc. It's not that fucking complicated
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>>2953 I see, youre a deshonest opponet. It is not worth spending time with you when you ignore the evidence and only use ad hominems
>>2947 >where the constant exposure of young girls and 'dancing' has led to pre-teen girls twerking while having money thrown to them on the street and young boys being "drag queens" and performing in gay bars. how are these things inherently traumatic
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>>2962 >Pic 2 <hurr let post this fucking out of context data set because the depiction of child porn is the only variable difference <lets ignore the inherent societal differences in Japan and the UK, wherein Japan is hyper-repressed in real life to the point where large portions of men have their first sexual experiences with their own mothers and are marrying virtual characters. <It's not like people barely interact with one another there outside of a professional level This is the same disingenuous tactic used by porky-cucks who compare US and Soviet economic and cultural output with no actual context. >deshonest It's spelled 'dishonest' and 'opponent'. And your Nijikon is not a fucking argument, if anything it only proves that this shit is a mental illness. GET HELP >ignore the evidence LO fucking L look at you kettle >ad hominems Calling you a pedo is not ad hominem, it's the truth. Some more links on japanese sexual abuse and child-related sex products going up related to what I posted >>2951 https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/1226/ https://happymag.tv/a-disturbing-number-of-child-sex-dolls-have-been-intercepted-by-australian-border-force/ https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00704/ The biggest majority of people defending drawn CP are lolberts and rightoids, primarily Western. That should say a lot on its own. >>2963 If you don't understand why this is wrong, you're part of the problem. Drag and Twerking are inherently sexual behaviors that a pre-pubescent child or pre-teen won't even BEGIN to understand as such, but will imitate. They do it because exposure tells them "this is good/gets attention" which is the subconscious want of most children and even people. This is essentially social grooming and therefore child abuse. It's the same shit as beauty pageants, except worse, because at least in those disgusting pageants the children remain clothed and unexposed. No kid actually wants to go on stage in a dress and be stared at by strangers or for a drag queen to read / interact with them. This is shitty tolerast parents who want to feel good and progressive about themselves pushing for sexual deviants to be in their schools, or projecting their own obsessions. Recently there was a series of videos made where a handful of kids were face to face with a drag queen or a homo or a tranny and their reactions ranged from repeating a mantra they'd heard from their parents without understanding (free love) to confusion/curiosity at something weird, to outright disgust. Nowhere did any of the kids want to do this outside of a concept of what comes down to playing dressup and acting roles, which isn't what drag or trans is. Kids don't have real sexualities and are developing and therefore open books to being influenced, by ironic or unironic sexualization, fictional or not. I actually posted about this before. This also applies to young adults who tend to go with the flow of society, so as demonstrated, if sexualizing children and minors becomes socially acceptable people start imitating it. JP cafes and other sexual abuse is often a direct reference to maid-cafe shit and schoolgirl fetishes depicted in anime and manga and doujins to the point where grown men hire 16 year old girls who look young to dress and re-enact erotic scenes, even without direct sex. It's disgusting when grown smelly adults have folders full of japanese cartoons of little girls and fantasize about them... how is that not mentally ill? How would this not be jarring for any child to be informed of. I have zero tolerance for anything of this kind anymore, it's what let this whole austic Japanese perversion get loose in the first place. There is no artistic value from 90% of these loli lewds. It's just generic, disgusting fap material of a child-representation.
>>2964 why is children being sexual bad
>>2961 >Also see pic related and get some help. You do know that image is parody? Comic Lo is a loli porn mag.
>Cool! A new thread on /anime/ with a ton of posts! <Lolipol >Oh... Honestly kind of disappointed by this thread. Usually lolicon debate threads have a lot of good sources and interesting arguments, but the anti-loli crowd really dropped the ball this time. Anti-lolicon /a/nons were making better arguments 10 years ago. Lots of fallacies and generally shitty sources. I feel like you're kind of rolling over and letting the pedos win. The pro-loli arguments in this thread aren't even that rigorous. I expected bunkerchan to be a bit better at this than 4chan.
>>2975 Yes, I know, and if you actually read the poster... they're basically saying "really do get help if you need it" They're making money off your mental illness, but they're not going to take responsibility for anything that happens. >>2976 Because we already had this debate ad nauseum last year on the Flat thread and frankly its just tiresome. The pro-loli arguments are just fucking the same copy-pasted shit you see on 4chan and people can't be bothered to address them any further when we've done it a dozen times already, including me. People like being filthy pedos so fuck it, let them. When the time comes mental institutions will be ready to accept them into their walls.
>>2927 >>2928 >>2929 Loli porn is actually allowed here?
>>2988 Technically yes, but it is discouraged, especially since federal laws over-ride state laws.
>>2989 Isn't it okay federally, but something the CARE act gives states the ability to apply obscenity charges?
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>>2990 I don't remember, but there are enough laws that make posting it a bad idea.
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>>2964 It's just a drawing, guy. I like drawing the human body, mostly muscular men, but just for you, I'm gonna try my hand at something else. Also, why is anyone arguing with a loser that wants to ban the internet? Let him live out his fantasy by ignoring him. Bonus: posts things he won't like.
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>>2992 >spoilered pic is literally SFW and has nothing to do with SEXUALIZING lolis <hurr this'll triggur him Thanks for showing zero reading comprehension brainlet. >Lets spam things he don't like because if you think drawn kiddie shit is bad you hate the internet Actually I enjoy the internet and find that being casual and occasionally politically incorrect is fine and relaxing. what I have absolutely no tolerance for is even the remotest implication of child-sex, real or not. >"It's just a drawing" Lazy fucking argument. With that justification I can go draw portraits of Hitler sitting on the emaciated corpses of Holocaust victims and fucking Eva Braun...disgusting It's still pornography depicting children, just in cartoon form. You can babble all you like about the harm done (and ignore the harm it does to the consumer by way of normalization of child sexualization), but pornography isn't defined by harm done. If a cartoon or drawing depicts children sexually, it is cartoon child porn. It might not be 'real' but it's the same difference as 1st and 3rd degree murder. >ignore him <he says while replying >try my hand at something else Go ahead, like I said already, I'm not really trying because there is no point dying on a hill for degenerates. I won't bother with writing exhaustive walls of text in response to equally massive diatribes defending this cartoon child porn
>>2927 No rape from as209 or whatever his name is
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I don't really give a fuck because lolicons are faggots regardless of whether it is genuinely paedo-shit or not. Just going to pose this question and GTFO because this thread is shit. What exactly is going through a niggas head when they're making/watching a clearly under-age anime girl suck someone off in some really oddly high quality image/animation... If it's not the age number because "le 300 year old vampire-dragon" then one concludes the attraction is the childlike body then... HMMMMMMM!!!! And inb4 "cuteness" or some shit - that's what petite is for, see >>166 as an example of this. Saying "at least it's better than actual CP" is a hilariously shit argument. Do you want a medal for being a decent human being and not actually committing crime? 5 years later and DemolitionD+ still has the best take: https://www.clipzui.com/video/l3t4j5t2k3h5u363z416c4.html
>>2964 Im starting to think that you are just a regular fascist/Nazbol/Natso. You're assuming im a lolicon (I'm not) Your bellowing is already annoying, you are not making a point, you are not givin any evidence, you are not applying any type of materialism on your analysis. This is the last thing im gonna addres you again, you can ignore sauces and evidence and keep saying what you want, im not going to give you more attention. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MZk8bm6fbAF1Dcu2G24M1P7pmDoGbz-f6pJaPM5QfxU/edit
Honestly both Anti-Loli and Pro-Loli arguments are trash, simply due to the lack of research on pedophilia as a psychological phenomenom rather than a criminal one, as in, the act itself rather than the reasons for why someone becomes a pedo, although I'm gonna try to see another thing here, the Prevalence of Pedophilia. Now a question for everyone in this thread, biologically speaking, when does a human should start having sexual attraction to another? I assume most of you will answer that biologically speaking it should happen when one is capable of having children, and when does this starts? Puberty, more specifically for girls 1 month after their first period. So when exactly a boy and a girl starts puberty? It varies from person to person, but it's generally around the 10-12 range with common exceptions as young as 7 and as old as 14, now seeing that people is able to have children around the ages of 10-12, does that mean that sexual attraction to children of this age(note that it's not a PRIMARY or DOMINANT sexual attraction) is actually normal sexual behavior for humans? Maybe, I barely seen any research exploring the topic so I really cannot say, what we can do is look historically for answers tho, seeing the age of consent in different points of time. Now when you look historically, you do not find much due to lack of research, not only that but until the 1800s age of consent was embedded with age of marriage, which does not stricly but is a good indicator of age of consumation(that is age of which niggas lose their virginity), which, from what I researched, is around the 7-14 year old range, 7 being the lowest and 10-12 being recommended, age of marriage that is, if we look at Colonial America also, lots of instances of people marrying children around that range. For the first age of consent laws separated from marriage, which began around the early 1800s, it was usually set at the 10-12 year old range as well, I think some of you are aware of the infamous Delaware age of consent set at 7 years old no? There's also certain scientific researchs that I found, that I could not find the full papers, but bring interesting results: "Hanson and Gluckman, who respectively head the Centre for the Developmental Origins of Health and Disease (DOHaD) at the University of Southampton, and the Liggins Institute at the University of Auckland, New Zealand, researched the age of puberty stretching back beyond the Stone Age. They found that Paleolithic girls arrived at menarche - the first occurrence of menstruation - between seven and 13 years. This is a similar age to modern girls, which suggests that this is the evolutionarily determined age of puberty in girls." As well as "A peer-reviewed scientific journal study (Behavior Therapy 26, 681-694, 1995), conducted by Kent State University, 1995 (Lori L. Oliver, Gordon C. Nagayama, Richard Hirschman) was conducted on a sample of normal (adult attracted) male volunteers using the "penile plethysmograph". The team carried out hundreds of tests exposing men to female adult and child images. 95% exhibited arousal to the female adult images. A staggering 88.7% exhibited arousal to the female child (less than 12 years old) images. Prior to the study, 80% of the participants claimed to have no attraction to children and all of them had no history of illegal or legal youth attracted behavior." If any of you could find those studies I be grateful. Now does this mean attraction to 10-12 years olds is actually normal sexual behavior? I don't fucking know since there's not a lot of research put into it and I'm not a sexologist, it does indicates tho that people attracted to those age ranges are far more numbered than people imagine tho, which is rather concerning. Sources: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/12/051201022811.htm (Ye I know it's bad but the link from this newspaper to the research from the Uni leads to a dead page) https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/09/age-of-consent-in-european-american-history/ (it gives the sources so not as bad as one may think) There was also a link to the full Decretum Gratiani that it stated the recommended age of marriage in Medieval Europe to be at 7 but I lost the link to it.
>>3002 >>3004 A friend sent the Decretum Gratiani about it as well for me: http://legalhistorysources.com/Canon Law/MARRIAGELAW.htm It's very long tho, so I give one of the excerpts that I found, but it's also a great read to understand how marriages and shit worked in Medieval Europe: "Gratian: Betrothals cannot be contracted before the seventh year. For they can be contracted only with consent, which requires each party to understand what they agree to. This proves that betrothals cannot be contracted between children, because the debility of age prevents consent." http://legalhistorysources.com/Canon Law/MARRIAGELAW.htm#CASE_TWENTY-NINE__
>>3010 there, this is the right one
>>3001 >If you think pedos are bad you're a fascist Godwin's law >You're assuming im a lolicon (I'm not) <I'm not, I just waste hours of my time creating diatribes and shitty google docs to rant about how loli is totally not cartoon CP > ignore sauces and evidence Your sources are just spammed copy-paste and your evidence is fucking flimsy as fuck >not going to give you more attention LOL ok, I haven't been trying from the beginning but I guess even retards can grow a braincell and stop replying to bait. >not applying any type of materialism 1) Stop using words you don't understand 2 My posts, lazy as they were, were plenty analytical and consistent loli is the depiction of a child or child-like body and when used for explicit sexualization this means that YOU are sexualizing a cartoon child. Therefore the only difference to actual paedophilia is it being fictional. However the people who create this and masturbate to this are real. >google doc <imagine making an unironic essay defending cartoon CP Not only are most of the arguments made there flat as fuck, but they also use the same lolicon fallacies that have been dismissed time and time again. For example "Loli as a tool for child groooming" is totally a "balme the tool annd not the user" is a fallacy, because gasoline and icecream are not created specifically towards grooming children or arson. Loli porn is specifically for 1 thing - sexualizing underage girls. This is like saying that Heroin is fine because even Vicodin can be used for addiction, as if Heroin being specifically for getting high isn't the difference. The CSA statistic argument is also a fallacy. Not only have recent Japanese crime statistics related to children risen, but the methodology is correlation not causation. Economic and social factors outside are a major influence in how media affects people. >Inb4 muh Britain 1) Japan's economy and repressed culture is, for a major part, the reason rapes are not high in occurrence. Instead the population suffers in other ways, for example people marrying vocaloids and body-pillows, with many males admitting that their first sexual encounters were their mothers etc. etc. 2) japan has literal place where you can hire 16 year old consorts and have them dress as schoolgirls, clearly an influence of anime fetishizations of such underage erotica. https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/57eaaf23-0cef-48c8-961f-41f2563b38aa 3) Japan has a far higher HDI, the highest in the world in fact, while Britain is notorious for its poor living conditions compared to the rest of Europe. >Muh morals are subjective But ethics are not. To conclude you're paedophiles in denial. Like I said before, it's the difference between 3rd and 1st degree murder, that's just about it. Oh and BTW a lot of loli hentai artists are known for using real children as a basis as to what they draw for 'realism' which is why, despite the anime-bobblehead effect, the bodies are essentially accurate representations of real children and not petit adults. So fuck off with this 'muh 2D' shit. The only place that has an argument is if you're fapping to something like Lucky Star, where the characters are closer to flat shapes, than actual people.
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>>3002 In regards to the actual paedophile debate For 1 thing puberty being in 12-13 is not quite accurate since puverty BEGINS in those age groups but is far from finished. 1) Societal development and 'civilization' has materially changed things which made sexual maturity and engagement pushed later and later. Thus even by the time of the Roman Empire, girls younger than 14 were not typically involved in real sex even if the upper class engaged in debauchery. The only reason it wasn't higher was because people's life-spans were too short, so baby-making took priority over actually caring for yourself. 2) Paleolithic girls were not the same as modern humans, they had to be ready to be able to have children early because there was a high mortality rate and survivability required earlier reproduction, this placed a lot of stress on females of the time and it is self-evident in their remains. People were essentially disregarded as human beings and just survived the best they could. 3) The beginning of puberty and technical sexual readiness is early, hell in Mexico a literal 9 year old gave birth meaning at age 8 she was sexually able to have kids, but the difference is that while physically they may be able to, they are not ready to do so or endure mentally. Children cannot consent because they do not have the sufficient mental faculties to register things an adult can, that is why child abuse is under-reported, because most children don't know that they are being abused, pic related. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/02/06/mexico-9-year-old-girl-gives-birth/1897407/
>>3004 In regards to some of those reports that you provided, I assume you are German and can speak German, since you provided one in German, said article mentions Richard von Krafft-Ebing, and Krafft mentions that: "He mentions several cases of pedophilia among adult women (provided by another physician), and also considered the abuse of boys by homosexual men to be extremely rare." do you happen to know the exact Krafft makes about pedophilia in adult women? Because from what I seen this comment was largely ignored in the field of sexology. Krafft also says this: "Further clarifying this point, he indicated that cases of adult men who have some medical or neurological disorder and abuse a male child are not true pedophilia and that, in his observation, victims of such men tended to be older and pubescent." Which also kind proves my point regarding 10-12 age attraction.
>>3013 I am not talking about puberty per see but when people are capable of having children, which from what I research is 1 month after menarche, or first menstrual cycle for girls: "Most American girls experience their first period at 11, 12 or 13, but some experience it earlier than their 11th birthday and others after their 14th birthday. In fact, anytime between 8 and 16 is normal." I am also not talking about sexual maturity, but sexual attraction, adult women and men expressing attraction to pubescent children, not the sexual maturity of pubescent children. Life-spans weren't too short in Ancient Rome(or the Bronze Age in general), if you lived past 5 generally you live up to 50-60, life expectancy is not a good indicator for how long people lived generally because life expectancy includes toddler mortality in the equation. I fail to think how a Poor Roman Citizen wouldn't take a young wife and make her pregnant early in order to have more children, though I also saw a research which showed that Romans age of marriage, and about 12% of people married younger than 12, about 68% married around the age of 12 and the rest married older, though I cannot find the article. Though here is some other shit I found while seeing over my history in Discord Chats: "Edward J. Wood says that Thomas Lord Berkley was contracted to a girl who was at the time 7 years old and were to consummate the marriage 4 years later, but due to illness the marriage was consummated the following year" "“By the law of Scotland, a woman cannot contrabere sponsalia before her age of seven years. 1 Rol. 343. I. 20. But by common law, persons may marry at any age. Co. Lit. 33. A. And upon such marriage the wife shall be endowed, if the attain the age of nine years, of what whatsoever age her husband be; but not before the age of nine years. Co. L. 33. A.” [5]" Also, the youngest mother in the world is Lina Medina, who gave birth in Peru when she was 5 years and 7 months old, which means she was able to have kids at the age of 4, really scary stuff.
it don't make no sense to draw a link between lolicon and pedophilia. Anyone than it makes sense to draw a link between violence in videogames and violence in real life. We aren't morons who think Doom is the reason columbine happened. The arrow of causality goes the other way, sometimes violent people use violent games as outlets. If you really thought there was a link between loli and pedos you should think there's a link between all pornography and misogyny for example.* Basically leading to a soviet censorship situation where you're only allowed to make wholesome realism. It's retarded. *as an aside when it comes to pornography generally the argument is an opposite one: "Porn and similar objectifying media(like anime) has given you a false impression of women and makes you unable to connect with real woman" But here somehow loli has such a fidelity to the original that it's the same as CP
>>3012 You dont even know what is the Godwin's law. Lmao, how you reached the conclusion that the doc was my creation? what a retard. >2 My posts, lazy as they were, were plenty analytical and consistent loli is the depiction of a child or child-like body and when used for explicit sexualization this means that YOU are sexualizing a cartoon child. Therefore the only difference to actual paedophilia is it being fictional. However the people who create this and masturbate to this are real. Uh no, youre not sexualizing any type of child, you dont have any method to You have no way of proving your point all you do is repeat your personal opinion as if it were an argument.
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>>3029 >there's a link between all pornography and misogyny False equivalency. I'm not linking ALL hentai to all child abuse, I'm saying it can be an influence, which the past years of increased child abuse in Japan is demonstrative of. HOWEVER, pornography in general is consumerist and over-all it is anti-socialist because of how exploitative it is. And some porn does normalize that which would otherwise be disgusted by others. However with Loli you can see them sexualized in common media while porn stays on 18+ sites. The Anime PSA about Lolis gives a very good example of a literal popular school child show where nude loli bodies (of which only the head is unrealistic) are shown and constant idea of sex with older men is brought up. >given you a false impression of women and makes you unable to connect with real woman It does the same with loli, because even pomf.png is only a (demented) romanticism of pedophilia, not an actual reflection of child abuse, however it can spark ideas that lead to such things (i.e. schoolgirl cafes and special regions with really low age-of-consent). >>3031 >You dont even know what is the Godwin's law. >what is the godwin's law <"as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1" You literally made a comparisonwith fascists/nazbols which is Godwin's law at work >youre not sexualizing any type of child >bla bla bla no method Yeah you have no idea what you're talking about, just babbling random rubbish you don't understand. You sound like a horny teen typing with 1 hand LOL.
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>this whole thread
>>2998 I know a friend which like yaoi and he's not gay... So this normie dosen't even know the community
>>3013 >they are not ready to do so or endure mentally WTF, This is not materialist this return to hegel or is even more idealistic than that. What are you? anarchist?
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people who watch shows about swords where something like this is shown literally are people who want to go outside and stab people dead this here is a very graphic screencap of a fictional person that is modelled after a real one being murdered this is literally the same thing and i cannot differenciate
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i have drawn this, it means that i, and anyone looking at it, wants to go out and rape people looking at this image will compell you to rape all characters depicted are 18+
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>>3044 >This strawman argument again You got BTFO before with this exact same copy-pasta and exact same image. Violence is not the problem but how it is depicted. What you posted is a demonstration on a dummy, not an actual brutal murder. This is self evident in the differences of depiction and culture in Europe and America. American films are essentially "Fuck yeah violence!!!" and the culture itself reflects this, while in Europe violence is treated with respect. Depicted, but not glorified and this reflects the culture. >inb4 muh videogames strawman There are plenty of studies indicating that VIOLENCE based video-games can provoke aggressive and erratic behaviour. Nobody claims Mario killing Bowser make people violent, they talk about Call of Duty 3 and other desensitizing rubbish like that. I still remember that one kid who decided to try out GTA in real life. Lucky he was a kid and the cops didn't shoootonsight him. Every article speaking about video games and violence (whether defending video-gmaes or not) refer to First person shooters like CoD where you have human enemies that you have to murder the fuck out of to win. It helps create the same deluded mindset as /pol/'s "humans vs Orcs" view on the world. If violent depictions weren't effective why would the CIA spend so much time and money producing garbage movies like Rambo II & III, Red Dawn and other such bullshit? If media didn't affect people, they wouldn't fucking bother it. Hell that was the entire point of They Live's glasses allegory. - Craig A. Anderson and Wayne A. Warburton, “The Impact of Violent Video Games: An Overview,” Growing Up Fast and Furious, 2012 - Craig A. Anderson and Brad J. Bushman, “Effects of Violent Video Games on Aggressive Behavior, Aggressive Cognition, Aggressive Affect, Physiological Arousal, and Prosocial Behavior: A Meta-Analytic Review of the Scientific Literature,” Psychological Science, Sep. 2001 - American Academy of Pediatrics, “Joint Statement on the Impact of Entertainment Violence on Children Congressional Public Health Summit,” AAP website, July 26, 2000 - Mike Jaccarino, “‘Training Simulation:’ Mass Killers Often Share Obsession with Violent Video Games,” foxnews.com, Sep. 12, 2013 - Tracy Dietz, “An Examination of Violence and Gender Role Portrayals in Video Games: Implications for Gender Socialization and Aggressive Behavior,” Sex Roles, 1998 - https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-changing-culture/201212/yes-violent-video-games-do-cause-aggression - Also link to the kid I was talking about: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/11/30/an-11-year-old-played-grand-theft-auto-then-led-cops-on-a-high-speed-chase-in-the-family-car/ - https://www.geek.com/games/new-study-links-video-games-to-brain-damage-1711681/ - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/08/07/playing-shooter-video-games-damages-brain-study-suggests/ - https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/get-psyched/201201/do-violent-video-games-increase-aggression >>3038 >He's not gay <I'm not gay I just read men fucking each other, that's totally not gay!!! <I just like fucking men but no homo! This is like those people who say traps aren't gay >>3043 Start from the root of the problem - normalizing sexualized children. The point was never about "hurting" fictional characters but about how the people who view and "enjoy" such content are essentially escaping into a paedo fantasy... and that is fairly disgusting. >>3039 I can't tell if this is supposed to be ironic or not. Given that it's the same grammatical mash as posted prior, I'm going to reckon that this post is an unironic lack of understanding of psychology and how materialism is not the end-all-be-all of everything. >>3045 Ok strawman, keep ignoring the fact that MEDIA influences people.
>>2909 Do you even know what a repository is?
>>3051 Interesting. This is like max simp mode and 3d lolicon. I approve, as the guy said, very gentlemanly, no harassment. It's not like the girl doesn't know about sex or whatever. The 18 age of consent is very arbitrary and mostly makes sense in badly educated societies in regards to sex. Not to say I approve or disapprove of old men fucking underage women, just that people pretend teenagers discover sex on their 18th birthday. I've seen much more terrible demonstrations of the same in other cultures. I prefer this sterilized and out in the open, as it is here.
>>3055 That is not a teenager though, one thing is also what they shown in the event itself and what actually happens in the backstage, I do agree 18 as the age of consent is overall retard(here it's 14), but to say those shit that happen in Japan is a healthy way of doing and expressing their desire is wrong
>>3055 >I prefer this sterilized and out in the open, as it is here. I thought we hate culture industry here on bunkerchans. To provide closeted pedos actuall 11 year old girl "idols" with still no self-responsibility is cultur-capital at its weirdest if you ask me.
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>>2865 In short - thought crime. Le Unbelievable Sin. Yeah, that's it. There is no point arguing with such people, they just believe that certain sexual fantasies are just bad and will endlessly develop theories about "Chinese porn cartoons making you a pedo". You can't really be judged for what's inside your head, and you can't be judged for fapping to cartoon characters, be it kids or whatever. Anyone who says otherwise and tries to justify the concept of "thought offence" through obnoxious puritan "cultivation theories", are just wannabe white knights, who want to look better in the eyes of society for basically no effort. This shit is just a cargo cult of late 2000's pedohysteria, reproduced by virtue signalling radlibs and/or conservatives online. Of course they can't catch an actual child molester, so they start attacking harmless artists and their audience, because they unironically think that such sexual fantasy should be prohibited, because it's "indecent" or even "degenerate". Boomer logic and pure moralfaggotry.
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>>3058 Any person of intelligence should never give people like you any quarter, because you give lolicon defenders an inch and they take a mile and soon it's "what's so wrong with CP anyway" bullshit, every fucking time. >Muh thought crimes Typical western idiocy. Lolicon is not just 'thoughts, it is thoughts that are put onto paper/screens and spread to other people. It is not isolated to yourself and does influence other people and not in a good way. >You can't really be judged for what's inside your head <You're the next Chikotlo who just has been repressing themselves because social norms? Don't worry no judging! Don't get help, just 'be yourself' even when it's retarded because that't what 50 years of capitalist propaganda told you. >Anyone who says otherwise <People who say lolicon is bad are dogmatists <I'm totally not dogmatizing 'muh freedoms' when I refuse to accept legitimate criticism LOL >cultivation theories <Imma just ignore the fact that social, economic and political environment influences people and their behaviors. Nobody says that "if you look at a loli you turn into a pedo". The point is that relatively frequent exposure to such things and what they represent influence people. The very concept of Memes proves cultivation theory, since without it, memes would just be captioned images and wouldn't become hot-topics or spread across the internet. >want to look better in the eyes of society <ur a white knight if you think about ethics You sound like an Ancap incel. It's hilarious to claim this when American society and even European society is so obsessed with "liburty!!!!" >anti-degeneracy is 'muh boomers' and 'moralfags' <Hurr anyone who thinks being a hedonist is retarded is 'my parental issues' Ok lib >a cargo cult of late 2000's pedohysteria LOL ok Epstein, all the CP rings and child abuse that keeps getting found 'totally' isn't real. >they can't catch an actual child molester Because they're online, and to catch them you'd have to engage with them and risk being accused of being one instead >they start attacking harmless artists/audiences <social influence is totally harmless, REALLY!!! The point was never about "hurting" fictional characters but about how the people who view and "enjoy" such content are essentially escaping into a paedo fantasy and normalizing child sexualization. Many of these 'artists' often model off REAL children when drawing these hentai doujins. >virtue signalling radlibs <radlibs are literally promoting child sexuality and MAPS pride LOL you're just using leftypol buzzwords to sound smarter >sexual fantasy should be prohibited <fantasizing about a bigheaded kid fucking someone is totally legit because it's not real!!! It's one thing to have some minor fetishes. Foodplay or or foot-fagging or spanking etc. But enjoying shit, literal and figurative is just mentally ill. It's fairly well recognized on leftypol that sexual obsession is a caused by capitalist consumerism, dehumanization and objectification (and more). Sex is so oversaturated and commodified in society that people crave shit that they wouldn't even think of. Horny people will jerk off to anything and only after will they realize that "oh, I just fapped to a picture of a dog fucking an anime girl" or some other shit. >>3051 >>3055 >An edited and clearly glamorized depiction is the same as the actual thing. <It totally isn't a prettified bersion of what is essentially abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjo_k%C5%8Dsai I agree that the age of consent being 18 is excessive, however it exists because until the ages of 16-18 your mind isn't yet fully developed and cannot reliably make smart adult decisions (like consent), partly due to late-stage pubertal hormones. It's why you see teen girls going insane for generic pop singers like Justin Bieber and later look back on it with embarrassment.
>>3058 Exactly. A lot of this stuff is simply art. I don't care if people find it disturbing, but it is art, and if some people get off to it, then good for them. This idea that "well it's still pedophilia" is a red herring. If simply finding this attractive is pedophilia, then it isn't wrong to be a pedophile. It's wrong to be a child molester. And if no children are involved, then I fail to see the harm in it. Enjoy yourselves and remember that socialism is about bettering your life, not turning it into a regimented structure dictated by moral busybodies.
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>>3070 >Create lolipol thread for the sole purpose of provoking argument on the topic and thus get anti-lolicon replies <hey man why you trying to be a busy body maaan? Amazing logic. >spoilering an SFW pic WHY!? You do realize all the anti-lolicon posters have been arguing against SEXUALIZING loli's not actually posting them in general right? >socialism is about bettering your life Socialism is about seizing the means of production and installing a dictatorship of the proletariat which oversees everything within a socialist state, this includes media. It's main purpose is to disarm and remove the capitalist class and its worst products (such as un-necessary commodities and for-profit labour organization/production). This inherently requires a 'regimented structure' regardless of whether you centralize or decentralize the planned economy. You cannot have socialism without moderating the media consumed. >simply art pic related is ART of a nude child. Loli doujins and obviously erotic/pornographic anime grills are not art. They are media, but not art. To call it art would make anything 'art' and would make the word meaningless. >If simply finding this attractive is pedophilia Most people are not attracted to prepubescent children, cartoon or otherwise. This paraphilia is most prevalent in First World where hyperconsumerism drives people to do things that 90% of the rest of the global population would be either confused or disgusted by. >Red Herring If you're not attracted to it being a child-like body, then what is the attraction? It isn't 'just' an anime grill, since there are definitive reasons that make it a LOLI >if no children are involved, then I fail to see the harm in it If we existed in a vacuum maybe.
>>2964 >wherein Japan is hyper-repressed in real life to the point where large portions of men have their first sexual experiences with their own mothers Um..what?? Source? This can't be real
>>3080 I lost the link (I posted it somewhere on 8ch leftyweebpol) but essentially it was an article discussion the fact that Japanese men have so many problems trying to interact and have relationships with women that often their first interactions sexually are realted to their mothers (be it imitating a relationship with them, jerking off to them, being given a handjob/blowjob or outright fucking them). If you search through the waybackarchive of the board you might find the link, I'm too lazy to do it now, since I'm going to sleep and am on my phone.
>>2962 TAKE BACK THE CLAY ANGLOS OUT
>>2964 On a more germane note, how does one square the belief that propaganda affects behaviour and that video games and similar things don't affect behaviour? The recent shooter themed games have been demonstrated to promote revisionist mongering about the Soviets after all.
>>3082 Sex crimes might be underreported in Japan, too.
Someone has to drag Rafiq here so that he could settle this with his sheer ML autism once and for all, once again. Also, stop the bigotry towards the Japs and the trannies, the topic doesn't require it to be productive.
>>3085 >this based >>3086 >also this Society in Japan is very rigid at times, so any domestic abuse is hidden from outside view because it is seen as dishonorable to have others know. t.knowjapanesepeople https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/11/16/national/crime-legal/sex-crimes-japan-still-significantly-underreported-justice-ministry-survey-finds/ >>3088 >bigotry <saying honest truths is bigotry Japanese are very self-repressed. It's well known on this board that the culture itself is highly reactionary despite its advanced HDI. >trannies Literally 2 posts outside of this one and yours talk about "muh trannies" and only refer to them in passing. There is no bigotry in saying that they aren't the norm when they aren't... it's why they're labeled a minority, yeah?
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What about shotas?
So when are we removing this board?
>>3085 It is not that they might not affect behavior, but there is no evidence of this being negative or more pronounced than any other sort of media. Of course, propaganda aims to spread disinformation, depictions of sex or violence in games do not aim to spread disinformation. Violence is portrayed as violence, and sex as sex, whether exaggerated or not. The alternative would be censorship. I, for one, like free expression of the arts. If someone wants to make a lolicon manga, or a violent game, then this is good. It is an outlet for creativity.
>>3074 >hurr I get to decide what art is and isn't BTW, media is just a form of conveying information. Art can be anything. Loli is art. https://exhentai.org/g/662154/d5c164c9b6/ This one is definitely a work of art.
>>3100 >posting sadpanda <being this retarded the sheer irony >Art can be anything <Muh art is subjective PoMoism Go back to reddit >media is just a form of conveying information Information in media is almost never neutral you idiot, it does not exist in a vacuum and has an effect on viewers you dumbass
>>2961 What is happening in GETchan? The url is acting weird.
Did Stalin approve of taking more than one partner? Was inc*st legal in the USSR?
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>>2961 Pic approved by anti-nonce gang
>>2865 I keep seeing this thumbnail from the catalog and think the couch is her spread legs and her actual legs are her panties. I need to lay off the porn
>couch is her spread legs and her actual legs are her panties lolwut
>>2980 >if you actually read the poster I have, retard. If you're taking it seriously, kill yourself. It's tongue and cheek. No serious poster is going to suggest anti-male hormone therapy.
>>3156 they use it for sex offenders
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Both but it's also about gatekeeping to maintain an image which is just unrealistic when desiring mass numbers because every group, ideology and movement will have variety of interests among people within.
>>3156 Ok retard, stay mad and keep up the dissonance.
>>2962 pathetic Jap worshiper go back to pol retard.
>>3070 >Then it isn't wrong to a podophile You can't make this shit up Lmao
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>>3070 >socialism is about bettering your life >not turning it into a regimented structure dictated by moral busybodies
>retards still arguing all weebs get sent to the gulag japan is a shit country with rightoid culture and anybody who likes anything from there deserves a rope
>nooo stop liking what i don't like cope, gonna keep mentally fucking lolis and there's nothing you can do to stop me short of installing communism, maybe in that kind of society i'd feel bad for liking taboos instead of loving them just look at this very american clown hot bod
>>3172 >>3171 >reddit spacing >edgy contrarianism Ok samefag bait-poster, stay salty.
>>3174 don't lump me together with that "day of the rope" faggot
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>>3172 >>3175 you won't escape the gulag
>>3175 You're the same coin, just different sides, fagorino
>>3178 >both sides no just you and this larping impotent faggot here >>3177
>>3180 Sure bud, sure, keep projecting.
>>3175 Post more of American clown girl from touhou that I forgot
I guess its true what they say about western middle class 'leftists'... Fucking kill yourselves
>>3194 I agree. Only middle class kiddies could care so much about drawings so as to make a stink about it.
>>3207 >TFW I ask my poor immigrant Mexican co-worker about what he thinks of loli and lolicons and he says they should be dismembered Ok faggot.
>>3208 refuse to believe anyone would be autistic enough to bring up loli irl
>>3209 Ok sure. People totally don't talk about anime IRL... even though we have literal animecons, cosplays and all sorts of shit in public.
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>>2903 Don't need to refer to a supposedly platform the DPRK would build if they had the capabilities. What you want is actually Google! Youtube for video, gmail for emails, google maps for location services, etc. Just have Google gobble up more of the web and your dream of a centralized internet will be fullfilled! And the execs will then be able to impose the ethical laws that you believe are so needed in the virtual world. Wouldn't that be wonderful!?
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>>3213 >Socialism should have central control <Hurr you want corporatism How do you misinterpret things this badly... and of course a Lain-fag is being smug about their own stupidity.
>>3193 she's Clownpiece because I want a piece of that clown butt >>3194 this, western SJW-types should find better things to worry about than the apparent age of fucking drawings >>3208 <TFW I ask my poor very religious neighbor about gay porn and he says they should all burn great "argument", shitforbrains
>>3216 incel
>>3217 volcel, I don't hate women nor do I believe any of the other incel shit
>>3216 >western SJW-types LOL Westernoids are the majority of those who support Loli-shit faggot. >muh drawings!!! Already addressed. faggot >great "argument" <Hurr ur middleclass moralfags >poor person of non First-World delusion is brought up as an example <Hurr let me bring up a false equivelancy Ok pedo, you sound like those capitalist bootlickers who say that if you're poor and hate capitalism, you're jealous, if you're rich and hate it then you don't know what you're talking about. Fuck yourself
>>3219 >volcel, I don't hate women nor do I believe any of the other incel shit so, an incel
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>>3222 >is such an incel he has to literally cope by regressing to non threatening child-like paraphernalia fetishization of fictional cartoons given how repulsive he is to real adult women and threatened by them >n-no y-you're the one coping
>>3224 >has to invent a neat little delusional narrative for people liking things he doesn't like >>n-no y-you're the one coping
>>3225 >little delusional narrative you literally admitted you're incel Feel free to explain where I'm wrong tho
>>3227 >literally admitted you just literally admitted to being a delusional moron with a mind so tiny that in order to comprehend and remember things he has to distort reality feel free to point out exactly where I admitted to being an https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=incel tho
>>3230 >>3219 are you not involuntarily celibate? describe where this description of you is wrong: >>3224 (feel free to substitute "incel" with whatever neologism for incel you fancy)
>>3234 you seem to be very low IQ and mentally ill like most pedos (hence also the compulsive spam and inability to read basic english). I'll ask again in more clear terms: >do you define yourself as "volcel" instead of "incel" due to the negative connotations of the term per this link:https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=incel or not?
>>3235 at this point I'm starting to think you just want me to post more hot Clownpiece >negative connotations of the term are you trying to imply that all celibates are automatically incels? already said I don't hate women or any of the other retarded incel bullshit, and I really really don't care about your moronic opinion on me >muh low IQ <demands others fit neatly into simple labels otherwise gets terribly confused
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>>3222 >muh anecdotal example <N-no you can't tell me that ordinary people think 2D pedos are pedos!!!! LOL, stay mad >>3225 >>3230 >>3234 >>3238 Not even that dude but holy shit this level of bait-swallowing COPE is hilarious.
>>3238 is your CELIBACY due to a PERSONAL choice or due to an EXTERNAL factor (i.e. women being unwilling to date you)? it's not hard
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>>3240 His 'celibacy' is because he's unironically pic related only with lolis, rather than a single waifu
>>3239 >bait so we agree that other guy is (pretending to be) a moron >>3240 my choice while having to live in capitalism >>3242 >relationship with anime how does that even work? they aren't real you know
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>>3246 >capitalism is the reason I'm incel
Imagine having hundreds and hundreds of low quality, clearly hyper sexualized, clearly prepubescent drawings of young girls and thinking "this is a normal activity and not the expression of warped libidinal impulses from a socially stunted NEET"
>>3246 >we agree that other guy He's baiting you with low-effort accusations of being an incel. You respond with equally idiotic "U-ur wrong" posts. >>3249 /thread
>>3246 Are you perhaps a girl? Considering that what you have seems to be mostly yuri pics of Clownpiece I assume you're a female anon
>>3249 The dick likes what it likes. Some people fap to lolis, one guy to pictures of tiles. As long as they aren't hurting anybody, I really don't give a shit. Freedom of expression is hugely important. Let me ask you, what do you think of ero-guro stuff? I don't find it sexually appealing, but I do like it a lot. Does that make me more likely to be a murderer, or is it just art?
>>3257 Not that guy, but... Blatantly unmarxist, the dick doesn't just like it, we live in a society and there are societal consequences. Liking lolis is nowhere in our dna. You miss the point. This other guy is saying that this behaviour is a consequence of a certain situation many internet autists find themselves in within capitalist society. >It's freedom of expression to have and masturbator to thousands of photos of cartoon children Yeah na I wouldn't say it necessarily makes you more likely to be a murderer but it has long rooted consequences to how you view the world, and women in particular. We wouldn't continue to produce marvel films under communism because the values would not exist, I suspect the same for whatever obscure anime fetishes exist. (This isn't to say I don't have obscure anime fetishes, however I won't consider it a right, or a fundamental freedom to wank to fucked up doujins)
>>3259 >Liking lolis is nowhere in our dna. Yet a cursory search will reveal that it might indeed have physiological origins. Pedophilia has been with humans since the dawn of time, and ephebophilia isn't considered abnormal. >Yeah na So drawing art you like and sharing it isn't freedom of expression? Then define this for me. Maybe I'm stupid. >but it has long rooted consequences to how you view the world, and women in particular. No, it doesn't. I just think they're pretty, like how I think polished machinery is pretty. >We wouldn't continue to produce marvel films under communism because the values would not exist But if someone wanted to, you wouldn't seek to stop them, yes? >This isn't to say I don't have obscure anime fetishes, however I won't consider it a right, or a fundamental freedom to wank to fucked up doujins) The only real complete freedom you have only exists in 5hose few cubic centimeters inside your skull. If you don't have the freedom to think fucked up shit and masturbate to it, then what freedom do you have? Freedom of thought and expression are fundamental.
The marxist/unmarxist move isn't about whether liking loli is in our genes but how our actions arise in a particular class structure. Same thing as labor. Is it in our genes to work 12 hours making jeans in a factory? Doesn't matter, the point is about what creates and maintains such an arrangement in the first place, to point out that regardless of the true/false status of an underlying necessity to work, the expression that work takes on in a society is reflective of very human decisions and interests. In the case of capitalism, these human interests are only the interests of a small minority, the bourgeoisie. how does loli fit into this? idk i don't really care, i just wanted to clear up the misconception of what marxism claims and how its analysis works.
>>3262 >The word ephebophilia existing in a post with zero irony whatsoever Yikes >Drawing art u like Reductionism, you can do better. >I think a loli is pretty like polished machinery This post is directed at you dude >>3249 >If I can't be pedo, what's the point in living? At that point there are no freedoms left! Jesus Christ is this the best you pro-loli fags got? >>3263 It's very important that we acknowledge that these things aren't essential. Unless you wish to argue blacks are inherently violent? (A leap, but bear with me). To accept that one's pedophilia is genetic, like the other guy said, is to remove the blame from one's perversion. It is very clear pedos are made, maybe some have a 'higher susceptiblity' (we cannot know really) to the social conventions which 'force them' into pedophilia, but we can see this by how many pedophiles were abused as kids. It is a cycle that needs to be nipped in the bud. But this still misses the point for us Marxists , even if something is "biological" it is still subject for our analysis and destruction. That is the point of Marxism, to change history. And the Marxist must lead by example showing the discipline and autonomy to not wank to depictions of children. You are correct, but this level of disgusting essentialism still needs to be refuted wherever it pops up.
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>>3246 >>3262 >Yet a cursory search will reveal that it might indeed have physiological origins. Pedophilia has been with humans since the dawn of time
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>>2865 >Why a lot of leftists hate lolis? Decadence Pedophiles get the wall and are more likely to be fashoids anyway, so good riddance
>>3266 >hates lolis >posts nkvd ironic I say
>>2870 >Go outside and engage in real life <N-no, ur spooked Comedy >>3262 >cursory search will reveal that it might indeed have physiological origins No. A cursory search will find that puberty begins early and therefore some level of attraction to teens and pubertal kids may exist. prepubertal children and especially undeveloped ones are not in this category, which make up a large portion of child-abuse and pedoshit >ephebophilia isn't considered abnormal <Literally posting the MS-Paint meme unironically LOL, you do realize that as HUMAN BEINGS we changed and formed societies by trying to have control over ourselves and rejecting practices that are barbaric as we progress, that is a major part of dialectics. >drawing art you like and sharing it isn't freedom of expression <Implying some digital CP is somehow 'art' The idea of "subjective art" is western-fag bullshit. Also <Muh Freedumz! You're about 1 step away from crying Freeze Peach. > I just think they're pretty, like how I think polished machinery is pretty Thinking they're 'pretty' and thinking 'their sexy' are very different things. A flower is pretty, but it isn't sexy. >No, it doesn't The effects of normalizing child sexualization are already visible and posted here in the thread, so yes it does. >if someone wanted to, you wouldn't seek to stop them It would certainly be edited to some extent. And the example is general. Marvel films are a minor offense. Petty and mostly lackling ideological bullshit or other idiocy. Lolicon is just straight up porn and has no artistic value and does not reflect the values of civilized society. >If you don't have the freedom to think fucked up shit and masturbate to it, then what freedom do you have That's not freedom that's just being a libertine.
>>3267 >ironic In what way? Have you been watching too many klyukva movies? >>3263 >>3264 >>3265 based
Pedophilia isn't an abberation it's the default, read History of Sexuality. Doesn't make it correct because its natural, but its empirically observed in preclass societies. Irrelevant all the same, there's yet to be any link drawn between lolicon and child abuse. The best the moralists ITT can do is talk about 'normalization', which we should all be aware is liberal B.S. usually brought up to scold people for making rape jokes. Culture is downstream from politics and production. If you want to be against rape and racism, change material conditions, don't censor video games or insist on artistic quotas, that doesn't do anything except alienate you from everyday people that live in the conditions that express themselves in culture. You need a certain economic privilege to be able to agree with the theory that its possible to diminish oppression through cultural control, this is because the ability to control culture takes capital in the first place. You create a bubble to live in and believe its a utopia due to your pure actions and policing of language/loli. When it's really just money letting you do that.
>>3271 >Pedophilia isn't an abberation it's the default, read History of Sexuality. Doesn't make it correct because its natural, i don't think this is true though, in the middle ages marriages were actually done between two adults. people marrying into 8 year olds was mainly reserved between royal marriages of two princes or w/e. i haven't read that book but i'd like to see what age of society you're referring to
>>3272 not marriages with children of course, but sexual play between adults and prepubescents was typical.
>>3271 >it's the default Uh no, it's not. It occurring is more a demonstration of lack of ethics in the past than a norm of nature. We don't see this behavior in almost any other animal except individuals that tend to be disturbed (such as male elephants who had their mothers killed by poachers and attempt to rape rhinos and adolescent/baby elephants) >empirically observed in preclass societies Because until the modern age, life-span was shit. This was already covered. And besides Foucalt was a fucking closet pedo himself so of course he'd argue it was "natural".
>>3262 >History of Sexuality Ah yes the completely historically nonsensical book by pederast Michel Foucalt who campaigned for the age of consent laws to be scrapped in france and ultimately died of AIDS.
>>3275 >believe in AIDS his every other opinion is discarded
>>3271 So people who are antipedo are >Moralfags >Libs >Economicaly privileged >Utopians >Language policing I am so very thankful 99.9% of proles find you literally the worst human possible. You better not let this level of retardation out in public, talk to normal people, go outside. Literally the only argument in this thread, and I mean LITERALLY is that "wanking to depictions of children doesn't mean you're a pedo", do you not see the sheer retardation of such a statement? >foucalt Oh don't worry it all makes sense now...
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>>3276 Kissinger invented AIDS to depopulate Africa it's on record
>>3262 I would like to just emphasise here the absolute brain rot of the libertarian socialist (assuming you're soc at all), the sheer cognitive incapabilities required to type out that the only freedoms that exist are the freedoms to be a pedo. Absolutely gob smacking. Not only do they believe that this degenerate freedom (and I am by no means sexually conservative) is necessary, they believe it is a form of expression like we're in highschool art and everyone gets a gold star. The fact you worry about people taking your "mental greedums" (something that LITERALLY cannot happen, you are free to think what you think) instead of the fact you keep collections of naked depictions of children. Instead of looking inwards and deciding if this is positive behaviour of a communist, someone that lives in a society they have deemed requires forced change, they want to defend pedophilia as natural. This opinion IS fascist. You cannot excuse your problems because you believe they are 'natural', it's been made clear that communists are about destroying such silly chains that hold humans back. This meme, while stupid because of the lgbt flat, is correct. >>3265 For 99% of human history women have been literal sex slaves, this would excuse no behaviour of mine to mistreat a fellow comrade today. You are not a communist. You are incapable until you let go of this addiction to little children, it isn't about creating your perfect little freedom world where you can objectify fellow comrades to your heart's content. This behaviour is anti social, much in the way private property is, and it will be ruthlessly crushed when the revolution comes.
>>3264 >Yikes Not an argument. I was responding to the idea that pedophilia is a social I'll, when it is clearly of biological origins. >Reductionism, you can do better. This is a non response as well. And it is a standard wokescold line. Do better sweetie. >think a loli is pretty like polished machinery I was talking about ero-guro there. Way to be illiterate.
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>>3276 >>3283 >ero-guro thank you for your input, we'll let you know.
>>3269 >>3268 >No. A cursory search will find that puberty begins early and therefore some level of attraction to teens and pubertal kids may exist. prepubertal children and especially undeveloped ones are not in this category, which make up a large portion of child-abuse and pedoshit Clear that you didn't even bother to google. I was referring to the biological state of the pedophile. >LOL, you do realize that as HUMAN BEINGS we changed and formed societies by trying to have control over ourselves and rejecting practices that are barbaric as we progress, that is a major part of dialectics. This is an argument for not fucking young girls, which I agree is sound. It is not an argument for not being attracted to them. This wouldn't even make any sense in this context. And it is definitely not an argument to stop someone from making art depicting such acts. >Digital cp Cp is bad because it harms children. A drawing involves only adults. Call it what you want, but this is like a vegan arguing against synthetic meat because it looks and tastes like meat. >The idea of "subjective art" is western-fag bullshit. Then give a formal definition for art. >You're about 1 step away from crying Freeze Peach. Do socialists not need freedom of expression? I would think they do. >Thinking they're 'pretty' and thinking 'their sexy' are very different things. A flower is pretty, but it isn't sexy. I was referring to a different art type. And why does it matter. Would it be wrong if I did then find it sexy? Can I like loli aesthetically, then? Would I be wrong to masturbate to ero-guro? >The effects of normalizing child sexualization This has never been borne out in statistics related to these acts. This is no better than the anti-game screeds of the 90s. >It would certainly be edited to some extent So you believe in censorship of art. Good to know. >Lolicon is just straight up porn and has no artistic Strongly disagree, and you are not the arbiter of art. Pornography is very much art. >That's not freedom that's just being a libertine. Freedom to you is censorship and control. And I don't see how that is lolbert at all. It certainly isn't an argument for capitalism.
>>3274 >Because until the modern age, life-span was shit. This was already covered. This is really stupid. Life expectancy doesn't mean people died at 40. It means high child mortality rate. If you made it to 10 years old, you were likely going to make it to 60. This is not why certain things were the way they were.
>>3279 This sound like a pastor scolding me. And make no mistake, the art I like is offensive to 99% of the American population. However, as long as they want to be free to make their art, music, and films, to protest and to demand openly that things be done for them, they will have to respect my right to do the same. People may hate what I like, but they will defend my right to it. Only authoritarian socialists and fascists seek to end freedom of expression for the general population. You don't have to believe I'm a socialist, but people will listen to me far more than someone who outright tells them they need to be censored.
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>>3285 >>3287 are you lost sweeties?
>>3285 >Clear that you didn't even bother to google Actually I did, since I've been engaging this thread from the start. >referring to the biological state of the pedophile LOL >not an argument for not being attracted to them It is an argument for that because society didn't just up and decide that "hey, fucking minors is bad". Evolution is part of this, its the same reason we have sexual dimorphism and why gender roles developed in society. These are the kind of social constructs based on material reality. >A drawing involves only adults <this again For the last fucking time. We do not exist in a vacuum and neither does porn. 1) lolishit is so easy to find as to be easily available on many boorus, hentai sites and chans, so any kid can wander on and get eye-fucked 2) It NORMALIZES it and affects others. >a vegan arguing against synthetic meat because it looks and tastes like meat Synthetic meat is still meat, just grown artificially, so this theoretical vegan is not being a hypocrite here. >a formal definition for art The general and simple definition given; the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination in visual form. Pornography takes little creative skill and given that people will fap to literal circles, no technical skill either. There is no real imagination outside of "SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX!!!". It's thoughtless lust influenced by the environment people live in. As we so have it, the environment of current society is hypersexual because sex sells in capitalism. An ordinary hentai is literally just fucking. There is nothing there, just one-handed keystrokes put onto a screen. > Would it be wrong if I did then find it sexy <(you) see a child drawing and think it's sexual and that's 'totally 'not weird right? Absolutely barking >Would I be wrong to masturbate to ero-guro The fuck does ero-guro have to do with literal loli porn you fuck? You're shifting the topic >So you believe in censorship of art Without some censorship we get schlock. Read Adorno, lolbert. >You're not the arbiter of art ok holier-than-thou faggot, nice fallacy >Pornography is very much art Nope. I can write an essay about this is a shit-take, but instead I'll repost something from before. Art is, by design, created to stimulate human emotion; an aesthetic feeling that move us humans beyond reality and place us in a state of enamoring bliss. Porn, on the other hand, was created to stimulate our base sexual desires and ONLY those. Its main goal is to profit from persons by fulfilling these ravenous, animal-like, simplistic desires. Art strives for something more. That said, expressing the sex act MAY be an aide to art. Suppose a sex scene in a film. If a scene representing the sex act is made to convey a message (The Bible's Song of Songs), express a character's situation/personality (Schindler's List) or present stronger, darker undertones (Song of Saya), then these may be considered art, since they are concerned with putting the viewer in an aesthetic state of mind, rather than satisfying carnal desire. If the goal of a scene IS satisfying an audience's libido, it is pornography, and it is tasteless >It certainly isn't an argument for capitalism Capitalism's main ideology is by default "muh freedoms" the part about freedom to exploit and oppress through market rule going omitted. >Freedom to you is censorship and control Freedom of expression has no definition when there is nothing to contrast it. Freedom on its own is a nebulous concept that lacks no ideology. The SS was also free in its slaughter of innocents. Would you suggest that nazis ought to go uncensored and free to spread their toxic ideology? >>3286 >If you made it to 10 years old, you were likely going to make it to 60 <which is why in places that retained medieval levels of development like Czarist Russia, the average predicted lifespan was often 32 years give or take a decade. Can you not spout bullshit for one minute >child mortality Nigga this is my job description, high child mortality rates are usually caused by conditions in which the weak do not survive well, the weak also including many old people. There is a reason 60 year old people were considered OLD and not elderly as we do today. >>3287 >Only authoritarian socialists Socialism by definition is authoritarian you dolt. DICTATORSHIP of the proletariat. >Muh red fascists neck yourself >people will listen to me far more The people who will listen to you are those who just want 'muh freedumz' and don't stop to think. Given that Lenin and many other Revolutionary leaders did espouse ideas on censorship and were popular, this argument holds no water. If that were the case political conservatives like the GOP would never get any support. >pastor Maybe you ought to fucking listen, because at this point, I think the pastor is more of a socialist than you.
>>3290 >Nigga this is my job description *is IN my job description. Population bio includes people.
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>>3290 >>Only authoritarian socialists Socialism by definition is authoritarian you dolt. DICTATORSHIP of the proletariat. >Muh red fascists neck yourself >people will listen to me far more The people who will listen to you are those who just want 'muh freedumz' and don't stop to think. Given that Lenin and many other Revolutionary leaders did espouse ideas on censorship and were popular, this argument holds no water. If that were the case political conservatives like the GOP would never get any support. >pastor Maybe you ought to fucking listen, because at this point, I think the pastor is more of a socialist than you I mean when literally the entire historical polical spectrum disagrees with you except "libertarians" in the latter part or the 20th century in *some* western capitalist countries, is your argument even worth listening to
>>3293 great bunkerchan fked up my greentexting
What's C.W.C. been up to this year?
>>3171 ackshually the age of consent thing is a meme. the defacto age of consent in Japan is around the same as most countries defacto ages
>>3293 >DICTATORSHIP of the proletariat Why is it that talkies always bring this up as a justification of violating workers' rights? Dictatorship of the proletariat means the oppression if capital, not the average laborer.
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>>3392 Read the Summa Theologiae
>>3269 >In what way? bro...
>>3287 That's all you have to say... Wow. >Socialism that doesn't let me be a pedo=fascism Who the fuck let the vaushoids in? >Pedophilia is expression Again? Is your brain broken? Have you got any actual arguments? So real CP is allowed if it's shot like French cinema? I don't need to believe anything. I KNOW you're not a socialist. You do not have what it takes to create any sort of revolution if you are unable to stop looking at loli shit. The fact you consider it such a right is inately bourgeois and disgusting. >People will listen to me Good luck with that KEK, like I have said 99.999% of proles would rather you dead. You mean pedos will listen to you. So good luck with your pedo movement, honestly, you will need it.
>>3392 >The word 'tankies' >"Workers rights to own child porn" Vaush pls
>>3394 I agree with Aquinas here, anti-loli should be killed for the sake of wellbeing of society.
>>3407 this. anti-loli is pure reactionary retardation
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>>3407 >>3407 >>3407 >>3408 what makes pedos so brazen and shameless? is it the mental illness? Aquinas would have both of you burned in the public square yet you taunt us suchwise Knowing fully if either the far right or far left won that would be your inescapable fate, and your only solace is this decant capitalist system
>>3410 decadent*
>>3410 So quick to say that far-left would agree to burning people who have done nothing wrong based solely on their sexual orientation. Maybe that's just you and the far-right. https://www.ipce.info/library/journal-article/pedophilia-sexual-orientation https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/pessimism-about-pedophilia
>>3392 >justification of violating workers' rights <Workers rights is when some closeted 2D pedos making up a tiny portion of the population demand the right for drawn CP to be spread to everyone, even when most of them dislike it. >>3391 1) Where does age of consent come into this. the post you reply to isn't talking aout that specifically 2) The average is 16 in Japan with remote areas being 14. However there are 'cafes' and other shit that allow for men to ogle and grope underagers. >>3407 >>3408 >N-no, I'm not a lolbert who wants the right to diddle fictional kids you're just a fascist! >>3413 >Harvard <Muh sexual orientation Ok Epstein >far-left would agree to burning people Radical liberal burgers who suck up to minorities are not the far left. <and the far-right *Ehem* Suuuuure >>>/leftypol/859777
>>2958 always has been
>>3177 but Stalin was a pedo
>>3405 >That's all you have to say... Wow. There's nothing much to say. Your arguments boil down to you liking dictatorships. >Again? Is your brain broken? Have you got any actual arguments? So real CP is allowed if it's shot like French cinema? No, we're talking about drawings, sculptures, and so on. But nudity on film isn't that weird. There are videos of me as a child running naked around the house. Should my parents be arrested for having them? >Good luck with that KEK, like I have said 99.999% of proles would rather you dead. But I'm not into pedo shit. It just so happens that I understand the need to preserve their freedom of expression. You know many lolicon artists don't masturbate to their work, right? To them, it's just art.
>>3406 >Vaush Is he the new boogeyman? His takes on socialism can be retarded, but he is effective. How many people have you brought to the left?
>>3414 ><Workers rights is when some closeted 2D pedos making up a tiny portion of the population demand the right for drawn CP to be spread to everyone, even when most of them dislike it. This is freedom of expression. I am no more in favor of banning their stuff as I am for banning depictions of gay sex, zoophilia, rape, straight sex, or god-forbid, hand-holding. >I'm not a lolbert who wants the right to diddle fictional kids you're just a fasci Well you can't diddle fictional kids. So there's that. It's funny that you have to ascribe a political ideology that I do not hold so you can feel comfortable, since you can't actually make a positive argument for why censorship needs to be the goal.
>>The Tsutomu Miyazaki Case (also known as "The Saitama Prefecture Multiple Child Rape-Murder Case) >>Between August 1988 and June 1989, four pre-school school girls became missing in Saitama Prefecture. Here is an overall review of what happened: >>August 22, 1988 - Imano Mari (age four) was kidnapped, raped and murdered. Video taped Mari-chan's corpse and vagina. (video tape found at his house as evidence). Dumped and buried body in forest. >>October 3, 1988 - Miyazaki asked Yoshizawa Masami (age seven) for directions, and promised her to take her somewhere "nice." Masami started crying inside Miyazaki's car, and Miyazaki: "I had no choice but to strangle her to shut up." After she took her final breath, Miyazaki: "I took her clothes off and put my finger into her vagina, but her body moved even though she was dead...I became scared I left the body in the forest" >>December 9, 1988 - Namba Erika (age four) kidnapped, raped, and strangled. Dumped body in a forest. >>December 15, 1988 - Erika's body found in forest by police investigators. >>January, 1989 - Miyazaki returns to Mari-chan's burial site, took her skull back home, burned it to ashes at his home incinerator. Sends Mari-chan's ashes to her parents in a cardboard box with a letter enclosed with newspaper letters of 「真理・遺骨・焼・証明・鑑定」 (Mari, Ikotsu, Yaki, Shoumei, Kantei / Mari, Body Ashes, Burned, Evidence, Proof) >>February 10, 1989 - Miyazaki sends additional letters to Asahi Daily News and Mari-chan's distressed families (once again with newspaper letters) explaining in vivid detail how he killed and raped little Mari-chan. >>March 11, 1989 - Miyazaki learns of Mari-chan's funeral. Sends another letter to the Imano family and Asahi Daily News "I deeply appreciate the proper burial that you were able to provide her that I could not." Public anger explodes. >>June 6, 1989 - Nomoto Ayako (age five) kidnapped. Miyazaki: "after she kept on repeatedly inquiring about my deformed hands, I became frustrated and killed her." Body (minus legs and arms) dumped in forest. Video taped himself masturbating (once again, video tape found at his home later) with Ayako's hands, then ate them. >>July 23, 1989 - As Miyazaki was video taping a crying naked girl (age six) in a forest, he was apprehended by the girl's father. He was taken to the police station for attempted kidnapping and rape. Miyazaki confesses to his crimes. >>Police searches Miyazaki's house: over 6000 video tapes of anime, lolita videos, and horror films
>There is no better expression of predatory male desire, than pedophilia, which in pathological terms is the same as sexual attractiveness toward a literal object. The object of the pedophile's desire, the child, there is nothing reciprocal in the meaningful sense about this relationship - it is no wonder Freud identified pedophilia with sexual attraction toward objects. More disgustingly, unlike a relationship between two fully constituted subjects, love is impossible between an adult and a child, for the first condition of love is precisely what is absent in this relationship: And that is its active reciprocation, or at least its recognized possibility (It is the possibility that the other may also love me back that I can continue to love them).
>>3423 So we should ban anime and horror films too?
>>3423 Ah, yes, the deformed loner with uncaring parents who mentioned in his confession that he felt abandoned and ignored. It was definitely the anime, and not his upbringing. Surely the "Moral Panic" section of his wikipedia page is a more accurate representation. If we're going by this standard, I guess we should euthanize all socially awkward people as well as any suffering deformities which might cause their peers to ignore them. After all, millions of Otaku lived around the same time not doing any murders as well as social rejects. The only solution is to get rid of them. After all, if it saves one life, it's worth it.
>>3424 >love is impossible between an adult and a child But I love my mama. Jk, child molestation is shit, but nobody is arguing for that here.
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>>3420 >Your arguments boil down to you liking dictatorships <Being socialist is about muh freedumz, even though the theory clearly states otherwise But sure, I'm just "le uthoritarian" LOL >>3420 >There are videos of me as a child running naked around the house Nice false equivalency. Repoosting: Art is, by design, created to stimulate human emotion; an aesthetic feeling that move us humans beyond reality and place us in a state of enamoring bliss. Porn, on the other hand, was created to stimulate our base sexual desires and ONLY those. Its main goal is to profit from persons by fulfilling these ravenous, animal-like, simplistic desires. Art strives for something more. That said, expressing the sex act MAY be an aide to art. Suppose a sex scene in a film. If a scene representing the sex act is made to convey a message (The Bible's Song of Songs), express a character's situation/personality (Schindler's List) or present stronger, darker undertones (Song of Saya), then these may be considered art, since they are concerned with putting the viewer in an aesthetic state of mind, rather than satisfying carnal desire. If the goal of a scene IS satisfying an audience's libido, it is pornography, and it is tasteless >I understand the need to preserve their freedom of expression Ok liberal, and the nazis should have their freeze peach bla bla bla, next. >>3417 Ok glownigger >>3422 >This is freedom of expression Nebulous undefined bullshit >banning depictions of gay sex, zoophilia, rape <straight sex, or hand-holding. Imagine equating a vanilla majority thing to fucking minority sexual deviancies MFW. >you can't diddle fictional kids Quit being obtuse faggot. >you have to ascribe a political ideology I don't have to ascribe one to "feel comfortable". Socialism isn't an "everyone is cool" club where any randos can come and project their own personal shit into the movement. The Communist Party isn't a Social Club, a minority or gay advocates rights group, or some shitty Mac Store where your faggot boss wears a Turtleneck sweater and asks you if you've had a good fuck; it’s a group dedicated to socialist discussion and thought. Defending "Muh freedom for loli hentai" is fucking retarded and unsocialist, and such people are not comr8s, but libertarians LARPing as leftists. >can't actually make a positive argument for why censorship needs to be the goal What utter cope. 1) Censorship is not the goal you fucktard it is a means to the goal - transitioning into socialism and then into communism. 2) Censorship of decadent capitalist ideology and its mindless consumptive motivations is required and part of what the Dictatorship of the Proletariat uses to de-fang upper class influence 3) As stated in the above reposted excerpt, there is no value to this porn and all it does is normalize disgusting ideas created and propagated by a capitalist market aimed at sexually unsatisfied first-worlders made by sexually disturbed mangaka who often study real children for their doujins. All of these are points I have made repeatedly, but sure it's cause "muh evul totalitarians!!!", Never mind that Losurdo debunked this years ago. >>3426 >total lack of censorship is good!!! Two words: Quality Control. Nobody who sees Nightmare on Elm Street or Friday the 13th is going to want to become a serial killer unless they're already disturbed, but there are numerous other films that take mutilation and "horror" and trivialize it into 'fun'. It's so normalized that Western Audiences (who are the ones who see this) are utterly desensitized to violence and its consequences. When you're a fucking Hikki-Otaku watching constant casual violence, rape and other shit, they are certainly affected.
>>3430 >But sure, I'm just "le uthoritarian" LOL You are, and theory does not agree with you. You just really like Stalin. We get it, you like dictators. >Nice false equivalency. Repoosting: Art is, by design, created to stimulate human emotion Lust is an emotion. You've already failed. The rest isn't even worth reading. >Ok liberal, and the nazis should have their freeze peach bla bla bla, next. Sure. Nazis can say all they want. It's when they start organizing that it becomes a problem, and then people should be the ones to put them in check. You do realize the problem with Nazis isn't that they talk about their ideas, right? >Nebulous undefined bullshit The freedom to express your thoughts out in the open without reprisal from government. Seems pretty well-defined and straight-forward. >Imagine equating a vanilla majority thing to fucking minority sexual deviancies MFW. You'll notice I included gay sex there too. I guess you don't like the gays either. You seem to think sexuality is a function of society, so maybe you think gays should be reformed too. >Socialism isn't an "everyone is cool" club where any randos can come and project their own personal shit into the movement. The Communist Party isn't a Social Club >muh seekrit kids club Kek. No wonder you people never get any traction. >Censorship is not the goal you fucktard it is a means to the goal Censorship in no way helps you achieve communism. You're just an authoritarian. It would be one thing if you said that capitalist firms and individuals should be muffled by taking away their media outlets and so on. It's another to say that making a drawing online should be illegal. You just find it icky and want to use state power for your own ends. This is a personal problem. >there is no value to this porn and all it does is normalize disgusting ideas There is definitely artistic value in pornography, and what you find disgusting isn't what others find disgusting. You just feel icky, and that's okay. Learn to deal with it. Normalization is also bullshit, by the way. Pornography isn't even correlated with sexual assault, nor are violent films, nor is lolicon with prevalence of child molestation. >Quality Control. You don't get to decide what is or isn't quality. If it's to be art, then let the artist determine that themselves. Most manga artists are one-man operations, and the online erotic art community is certainly that. You are not the arbiter of art, and cannot define it without running into contradictions. This is as bad as Ben Shapiro saying that Rap isn't music because it makes him feel bad about WAP. Get over yourself, and understand that your moral proclivities are just that: yours. The rest of the world will get on just fine with artistic expression under socialism. We don't need you to police how we do things.
>>3424 Eternally based Rafiq poster
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Read Galbraith, you reddit refugees.
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>>3431 >theory does not agree with you Yes it does, as do real life examples (Lenin and the Prostitutes anyone?) >Muh Stalin dictator Ok reddit spacing liberal >Lust is an emotion Lust is not an emotion, it is a feeling; a strong sexual desire. Arousal is also a feeling but is again not an emotion. SO nice faild >not worth reading <I have no argument so I'll nitpick typical >Nazis can say all they want Yep, you're a dumbass "freedumz" liberal, what in hell are you doing on this site? Get back to your safespace. >when they start organizing that it becomes a problem <Nazis can say what they want but not act on their words, even though acting on their ideology is inevitable and spreading their ideology can attract people to it. Have you learned nothing from history? Glasnost? Weimar Germany? This is the kind of rhetoric that would get you fragged by any socialist movement, be it the USSR or the Cubans or even the Anarchists. You do realize that even 'le based Makhno and CNT' also employed censorship right? Fucking Western libertarians like you are the worst. >he problem with Nazis isn't that they talk about their ideas The Nazis did not and could not have gotten into power by force. They did use it, but before that they were spreading their ideology like hotcakes and spread it even more after power was grabbed, that's how ideology works, dolt. >freedom to express your thoughts out in the open without reprisal from government <straightforward and well defined To a simpleton the "big scawwy gubmint" sure is a threat... to keeping your from being exposed to toxic elements. It has been pointed out many times in the thread with sources that people are influenced by their surroundings and media consumed. This is one of the principle parts of Das Kapital you fucktard. SO if you're exposed to toxic consumerism and ideology, you embrace it or are at the very least affected by it. >muh seekrit kids club Ok strawman <never get any traction Yeah, so little that ML parties are the dominant forms of communism in the past and today. Burgerstan is not the world. >I guess you don't like the gays either <Hurr I included this to bait you!!! Ok idiot 1) I don't care about gays, as long as they behave like any normal person. Being a flamboyant faggot is retarded stereotyping. 2) Gays are a minority, DEAL WITH IT >sexuality is a function of society Our entire society and its dialectical progress over time has been influenced by sex among many things, so yes you faggot, it is a function of society. Take a Sex Ed course, MFW. >Censorship in no way helps you achieve communism <ur just uthoritarian Ok brainlet, Marx and Lenin and history say otherwise >You just find it icky and want to use state power for your own ends. This is a personal problem Keep strawmanning, still no argument >There is definitely artistic value in pornography Already debunked, dismissed >muh disgust Ethics =/= morals >Normalization is also bullshit <not correlated with sexual assault <ignores the entire thread of posts on the topic <ignores the blatant effect of sexual commodification on society in the West You're stuck in an echochamber, and are a demonstration of what Marx stated about people being only able to change their lives only so much based on the socioeconomics of the environment >You don't get to decide what is or isn't quality Cry harder baby, It's not just me, it's a good 9/10 people. >artist determines themselves As any idiot knows (though not you apparently) artists can only "interpret" so much. If an artist says shit on a canvas is art... they're mentally ill, and we should not be enabling this. >manga artists are one-man operations Nonsequitur >muh arbiter Stop using words you don't understand on a subject you don't know and in a context you have no fathoming of. >contradictions None that I see. False equivalencies do not hypocrisy make. >Ben Shapiro Rap <ignores how most modern rap is just hip-hop garbage that turned the satire of rap into a commodity <ignores how the CIA funded this Read Adorno, liberal, Shapiro may be a Zionist hack but him bandwagoning on such a statement does not make it wrong. >Get over yourself No you >understand that your moral proclivities <Using more big words you don't understand Scroll up and stop wasting time >get on just fine with artistic expression under socialism Suuuuure bud, except theory AND real life demonstrate the opposite. >We don't need you to police how we do things This hilarious "we vs you" is hilarious considering the only "we" is a tiny percentage of the world population made up of Hikkikimori, Otaku, Weebs, pedos and lolberts like you... What a laugh.
>>3434 >read this American liberal "free-love" Otaku faggot who spouts the same stale platitudes about it being Ok to like perverting kids early >Literal author of a Otaku Manifesto, promoting the hedonism that actual Otaku like Miyazaki hated because of how disgusting these people end up being in their isolation <The sheer irony that this fucker actually finds all the evidence for this shit being real, including how market sexualization has lead to pressure on younger people to be 'sexual', but then dismisses it in the conclusion using cherry-picked sources <Also ignores how different cultures result in different expressions of damage (posted in thread) <Ignores how child abuse and pedophilia is hard to track down and is heavily under-reported compared to most other crimes, partially due to few people being bold enough to admit it and the fact that CSA victims are usually unable to comprehend their trauma until later, (posted in the thread) This level of argumentation has been posted and responded to IN THIS THREAD, simply with less of a long-winded bullshit-essay manner. Stochastic terrorism and the effects of media (POSTED IN THE THREAD) demonstrate that MEDIA INFLUENCES PEOPLE and SOCIETY, so fuck off.
>porn is art No. Outside of what other anons have said, Porn is MEDIA, and so is art, but that does not make Porn = Art, just as a triangle does not = a square even though both are 2 dimensional shapes with sides. corners, edges and angles.
>>3436 On the topic of stochastic terrorism - violence is so normalized that beyond superficial shock and outrage from terrorism, no-one actually cares until it affects them personally. Even those people who know its awful get desensitized to it, because otherwise stressing over every person killed by some psychopath will leave you a miserable wreck, because the world is a horrible place that requires stoicism and pragmatism, especially under the crushing pyramid of capitalism. It's proven that feelings and emotions can be exhausted, which means that, a character like the Incredible Hulk will reach a limit to their anger and just stop caring at some point, or more importantly a person's reaction to blood and horror is reduced to a sociopathic 'meh'.
>>3435 >Lenin and the Prostitutes Yeah, Lenin was wrong. He might have even been a racist. That doesn't make it concrete theory. Socialism is a scientific discipline. You can't just point at your prophet and call that a day. Make a formal argument or get out. >it's a feeling >hurr durr semantics. Let's look at the definition: <emotion: <a natural instinctive state of mind deriving from one's circumstances, mood, or relationships with others. Is lust for a nude character a natural instinctive state of mind deriving from the circumstances? Yes, very much so. Even if it wasn't it does involve emotions that give rise to it. So any pornographic depiction is art, even by your retarded definition. Deal with it. >Yep, you're a dumbass "freedumz" liberal Yeah, so weird that people want to be free. Must be why all the dictatorships you love had always had people fleeing them, or people within them rebelling. I guess those people were just capitalists in disguise. > It has been pointed out many times in the thread with sources that people are influenced by their surroundings and media consumed. No, that claim has been made, but the statistics of the real world don't bear that out. This is something you and the fundamentalist Christian right would really like to be true, but it's not. Kill yourself. Hope that sentence doesn't normalize you killing yourself. It'd be just awful if you were really that stupid. Then again... >Yeah, so little that ML parties are the dominant forms of communism in the past and today. Burgerstan is not the world. Those countries suck and the biggest one runs concentration camps as well as attempts to control every facet of life. No thanks, and they will probably fail. And no, one strongman controlling the country doesn't mean it's a dictatorship of the proletariat. It's just a dictatorship. >If an artist says shit on a canvas is art... they're mentally ill, and we should not be enabling this. Then don't look at it, retard. Nobody is forcing you to consume their art. Some, though will see the value in it. By the way, revulsion is also an emotion, so that's art. >Stop using words you don't understand on a subject you don't know and in a context you have no fathoming of. Pretty much the entire art world agrees with me, and not you. You are the one that thinks their art should be censored, and I bet you don't produce any yourself, and if you did, aren't submitting it for review to your local organization. You're just a retard with love for dictators. You're never going to make headway in America, and for all the complaints you make about my western viewpoints, you're just an edgy college kid with no accomplishments and no real idea of what you're talking about either. So no, don't try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. >Read Adorno, liberal, Shapiro may be a Zionist hack but him bandwagoning on such a statement does not make it wrong. Ah, he said it. So you really think music has a technical formal definition. Jesus Christ, you're retarded. Make sure your girl doesn't have a WAP. Can't be having that kind of decadence, can we? > Suuuuure bud, except theory AND real life demonstrate the opposite. They don't, but you'll keep saying it because you're stuck in the past and don't know anything about social movements, revolution, or the state of the modern world. Protip: if you want to know about how revolutions form look at the military and their research. They know more about it than people from 100years ago. >This hilarious "we vs you" is hilarious considering the only "we" is a tiny percentage of the world population made up of Hikkikimori, Otaku, Weebs, pedos and lolberts like you... What a laugh. Yeah, and pretty much every American and anyone outside who is given the chance to express themselves. Nobody thinks it's wrong to express themselves as seen by the workarounds of censorship on Chinese internet. Nobody likes that shit and they'd get rid of it if they could. You're never gonna make it, kid. Seethe all you want and console yourself that China and the Norks exist. Your authoritarian ideology is never going to take off in the American or European left.
>>3437 This is a vacuous definition. Media is just the means by which information is transmitted. Art can be almost anything designed for the aesthetic purpose. Porn is art.
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>>3421 Vaush hasn't brought any useful socialists over. They are all socdem petty bourgeois kids with no real elegance to the movement. It is the work of real leftists to exorcise them of their lib socdemmery to turn them into actual communists. >>3420 The other guy completely demolished these non arguments. I don't need to do anything here. >lolicon artists don't jack it to their art I don't listen to my own music. Do they jack it to lolicon AT ALL? That is the question (the answer is of course yes). >>3422 Gay sex, zoophilia, straight sex, hand holding harm no one. There is no subjugation of the human in any of these. It doesn't matter whether this occurs in fiction or not, it happens in the mind of the consumer. Now whether or not this leads to a certain set of actions is another debate, the goal definitely is the complete abolition of the rape/pedo depiction and consumption. I'm not going to say censorship is the one step solution, same thing with nazis, but part of a greater plan, with education, while the wounds of capitalist society heal. What we have in Japan where such behavior can be normalized to the extent of child maid cafes cannot be taken as freedom of expression or a consenting relationship. We don't support sex workers because sex work is good, we support them because we want to destroy their position in society. This means disposing of, and expecting discipline from those who pimp and those who buy. Otherwise there is no expectation of how we can treat our fellow comrades. And please for the love of god stop crying about tankies, and NEVER use the word authoritarian, for your own good. It only outs you as a theory-let fool to other leftists. >>3431 >muh stalin >extremely vulgar reddit spacing Read Lenin, read Engels, and while you're at it read some Marx. Vaush videos are not a substitute for education. >The freedom to express your thoughts out in the open without reprisal from government. NOOO DON'T TAKE AWAY MY FLAT EARTH YOUTUBE VIDEOS THEY ARE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION AND CONDUCIVE TO A FUNCTIONING SOCIETY NOOOO >Censorship doesn't help communism Oh and I suppose 'violence' doesn't help communism either? >You find child porn icky Pic rel
>>3436 Yeah it was an interesting read history wise but the conclusions were fucking retarded. The most thought provoking thing was him talking about how the viewer associates themselves with the loli instead of the rapist. I can sympathize with this feeling in other porn, but I'm not sure it holds up. If they associate with the loli they need mental help, and the normalization of the imagery helps no one (source: Japan). >>3439 Debating what is and isn't art is kinda cringe. You have different definitions, no one can win this. However we can see the consequence of 'art' or 'porn' existing. To say that something is 'muh art' is a nothing argument and should just be ignored. Let's assume it is art, it does nothing for your argument. >He stops the reddit spacing Lul >Unashamed Chinese propaganda How did you find this place? The issue on Chinas position is very complicated and another debate altogether, but you shouldn't just spout propaganda like that. >Kill yourself A single instance of 'kill yourself' does as much harm as a single loli picture. The issue is the quantity and culture behind the loli pictures. This has consequences throughout society (see japan where such art is normalised). >Conflating the modern day communist view with disgusting conservatism It is more nuanced than that. People can be against pedos for different reasons, you know. >Everyone given a chance to express themselves will side with me Okay, you're retarded. I don't give a fuck if it is self expression or not, I'm not a little baby that cries when people talk about taking 'muh freedums1!!!', the self expression which harms others should not be allowed. I should not be allowed to express hatred for blacks in any shape or form. It must be crushed where it is found.
>>3441 >Gay sex, zoophilia, straight sex, hand holding harm no one Neither does a drawing. And I think your inability to get this through your head is what's wrong here. Anyway, I'll continue this tomorrow. I have to be up in an hour to teach some young people how to not be failures like you.
>>3443 In the depictions no one is harmed. Depictions, or art as you call it, have wide reaching societal effects. Do you deny this basic fact?
>>3440 >Art can be almost anything designed for the aesthetic purpose. <Porn (which is not for esthetic purpose) is not art. FTFY >>3439 >Lenin was wrong History says otherwise >He might have even been a racist LOL what a liberal nonsequitur. Considering Lenin was a mutt with German, Jewish, Swedish, Russian, Chuvash and Kalmyk blood in his veins. He was ant-nationalist and never had racial based rhetoric, that would Trotsky. >doesn't make it concrete theory But his books are >scientific discipline Political science isn't a real science >point at your prophet LOL imagine being you, an idiot who decided to claim that loli is totally ok under socialism. Then, when pointed out that, no Marx, Lenin, Engels and other communists did not have moralisms about "muh freedumz of expression" and "muh porn is art" and instead actively worked against such capitalist decadence, you switch to claiming that we're using argument by authority, which is just bullshit. >hurr durr semantic <hurr let me nitpick and ignore the definitive differences Still no argument, also nice to see you ommit <instinctive or intuitive feeling as distinguished from reasoning or knowledge >weird that people want to be free <I'm a hedonistic libertine so that means EVERYONE else is like me. >Muh dictatorship love Cry harder >always had people fleeing them And here is the glowfaggotry coming to the surface. One of Cuba’s Caribbean neighbors is the Dominican Republic. 41,000 Dominicans immigrated to the US in 2012 (not including the tens of thousands more that came undocumented). Under 10,000 total came from Cuba that year, a fraction of the Dominicans that immigrated. The Dominican Republic produces far more immigrants than Cuba, and yet has a smaller population by 2 million, and requires a longer and more dangerous journey to the US for immigrants. Indeed, millions of people from all over the world immigrate to the US, including 11.7 million Mexicans. Millions more have come from all other Latin American countries. What’s clear is that there is not a mass exodus of refugees from Cuba. Cuban emigres are given the spotlight by the US government and media because it can be conveniently used to as ammo to demonize a country that is not compliant with imperialism. The simple fact is that any time there is a developed country nearby a less developed country, there is a tendency for the latter to produce immigration towards the former. And people fled to the USSR often as well, so cry harder >rebelling <Ignores how majority of all rebellions under 'le commie dictatorship' were CIA funded interventions Ok glowfag >those people were just capitalists in disguise Like I pointed out, people are easy to manipulate, history proves this. >the statistics of the real world <TL;DR: I didn't read what was posted because feels>reals whatever, stay in denial >you and the fundamentalist Christian right <muh conservatives!!!!! muh right-wing Just because your boogieman says similar things does not make it the same. >Kill yourself. <Hope that sentence doesn't normalize you killing yourself. Ironically given that cyberbullying is considered a serious problem and that such messages HAVE in fact been shown to drive people to do so, and people don't think about the consequences of saying this. Just an FYI but "KYS" can be a criminal offense. https://www.stompoutbullying.org/blog/tell-someone-kill-themselves-and-you-could-end-jail >awful if you were really that stupid <People's minds are complex and subject to the environment affecting them at different rates <Hurr ur stoopid because a message didn't work instantly You're unironically demented, seek help you sociopath. >Those countries suck <Former Soviet population is 50-80% in thinking the USSR was better to live in <Soviet Economoy and HDI was higher than the former Soviet countries today Hello again CIA liberal, done lying yet? Nobody says they're Utopias, nobody says they're FULLCOMMUNISM either. >ne runs concentration camp LOL where? The GULAGs? Nope, not a concentration camp unless you take the most liberal description, in which case every single prison in every single country is a concentration camp. China? Nope, Uighurs aren't in a camp https://img.booru.org/lefty//images/12/5ca2b50d46e3e3eee22b7b51f5d5b07d0450e3e0.jpg The DPRK? Outside of their own GULAGs, no they don't have this. Cuba? Nope. Also aren't you bitching about moral-fagging being on an individual? HMMM I smell hypocrisy. >hey will probably fail <an undefined statement again Fail in what regard? Collapse? China is still going, revisionism or not, the DPRK is going strong despite heavy embargo and isolation as well as a lack of arable land. Cuba is a fucking Paradise compared to most of South America and the USSR lasted several generations. If collapse is supposed to be a metric for failure, then that's retarded because capitalist countries have collapsed repeatedly over history. What about achievements? Cuba, China and the USSR are all in possession of many achievements in HDI, technology and other areas. >one strongman controlling the country <Muh Great Man theory!!!! Unironic liberalism is brian rot >Then don't look at it This is the capitalist argument of "if you don't like it, don't buy it" so fuck off. For one thing respecting pubic boundaries is part of society, you cannot ever be really free in a society. >will see the value in it <revulsion is an emotion Unless that was the intent and was the intent with more than provoking disgust it isn't. You didn't read the full argument I posted and therefore stumble on the same spades. An example of such a thing actually BEING art is Fountain by Marcel Duchamp. The point was a message about how art was becoming any random shit people did. Instead people took this seriously and the CIA helped. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html >the entire art world agrees with me Given that I know actual artists and have been going to Museums and studying art since I was a child, you're wrong. I'm quite certain most if not all artists of the past would probably clobber you for thinking loli hentai is 'art' >thinks their art should be censored Way to oversimplify things bub >you don't produce any yourself <Yeah I bet you don't buy those Rembrants fag! Ok idiot. FYI I have paintings in my house and have an entire bookshelf dedicated to art books from Japan to the Renaissance and more >submitting it for review to your local organization <Capitalism is the same as socialism!!! What a fucking strawman. FYI Carnegie Hall can literally have any idiot play their shit as long as they pay the rent. Art shows feature an shit regularly and there is no local organization. Not to mention, being a professional artist is something most people don't do. >You're just a genius who understands socio-economics and their influence on culture FTFY >never going to make headway in America <le idpozzed burgerstan supports hedonism so that means you're wrong and can't get support Hilarious. Given that Adorno and many others after him have been lamenting the same thing and actively fighting it, wrong. >an edgy college kid with no accomplishments <I have no real arguments except screamining "freedum" and "muh dictator" so I'll just attack the person instead Ad hominum is not an argument and neither is this undefined idea of accomplishments. People 60 years old or more don't have any "accomplishments" to their name. By your metric, because they didn't slather grime on a rock and call it art. Yet they have accomplished things. Found and did work, had families/relationships, drawn or written things for themselves etc. And I've done that, so you're wrong again. >no real idea of what you're talking about <N-no u!!!! COPE
>>3453 >>3439 >music has a technical formal definition 1) Agreeing with Adorno's general ideas does not mean I necessarily agree with everything he says 2) A Technical Formal Definition is necessary because music, like art is not defined. http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/SWA/On_popular_music_1.shtml >ur retarded <girlfriend dcadence idiocy No argument >you'll keep saying it because you're stuck in the past <they don't <it's just the past!!!! make up your mind >don't know anything about social movements, revolution, or the state of the modern world Given that I've been part of social movements and know the history of revolutions well, you're wrong. Unless you've lived through a revolution you have 0 high-ground and even then, living through something is not a guarantees of intelligence, even fools grow old today. >State of the modern world I'm more aware than you for sure >look at the military and their research <Protip <tells me basic fucking information that has been known since the 60s LO fucking L >every American <brainwashed consumers who can't think beyond binary Democrat/Republican splits represent the world OK >anyone outside who is given the chance to express themselves LOL no. You have no idea how hard it is to be a genuine artist in "muh free expression capitalism" that exists near everywhere. In the words of George Lucas, You have to adhere to a very narrow line of commercialism to be successful and be able to keep living. >Nobody thinks it's wrong to express themselves Stop equating general expression of an individual to literal hentai porn, when the latter is such a tiny and toxic part of self-expression that it's pathetic. >Nobody likes that shit and they'd get rid of it if they could Because capitalism idiot. You keep talking about China like a revisionist state is somehow a good example >never gonna make it, kid <I'm totally older than you, even though most users of this chan are less than 30 years old Whatever >Seethe and console China and the Norks The only seething here is yours, ya generalizing sockpuppet >authoritarian ideology is never going to take off in the American or European left. European liberals are barely centrists on the Overton Window, but ok fag. >>3443 >I have to be up in an hour to teach some young people how to not be failures like you. <One out of every 20 young college graduates is unemployed <Current education system is failing heavily Sure, keep ruining others lives with your supposed brainless teachings.
>>3443 >I have to be up in an hour to teach some young people <MFW when such an immature faggot is teaching others Given that almost any rando can be a teacher these days, it's not surprising, but the future of America is quite bleak.
Paul Cockshott has entered the discussion.
>>3467 >>3471 >Bumping this shit thread why

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