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Soviet cybernetix Comrade 04/01/2017 (Sat) 21:57:42 Id: fc6398 [Preview] No. 2517
I'm gonna cherry pick a few things from /leftypol/ thread, whole thread is here: archive.fo/SDBcR

Feel free to contribute
haskell
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I think we need a Bunkermag article on cybernetics, cybersyn, OGAS and so on.
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>>2537
we sure do. The problem might be that stem people who (vaguely) understand this subject are shit at writing articles. I mean, even I could write something, but my english isn't best and I write some article about once a year, so it would be probably shit
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also this was very important question
interesting mentions, needs edit!

>Finally got the name of the Soviet mathematician: Vladimir Arnold. His work seems to be too rarified even for our goals, tho he did study the stability of control systems, as well as something magnificently called catastrophe theory.

>There was at least one American periodical of Soviet cybernetics: Soviet Cybernetics Review. Also another general periodical called Joint Publications Research Service Reports occasionally had articles on the topic. Unfortunately, both of them are behind paywalls. Fucking Porky standing in the way of muh knowledge REEEEEEE An interesting sidenote is that the idea of a Soviet economy-optimizing national computer network had the CIA shitting its pants in the 60s.

>If you're interested on the Western version of cybernetics, Operations Research is what you have to look for. Although resource planning in particular is not the main focus of research, actually more complex results were found, such as ways to solve non-linear systems.

some links:
http://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R0700z1.html
http://nautil.us/issue/23/dominoes/how-the-computer-got-its-revenge-on-the-soviet-union
http://www.readex.com/blog/once-and-future-soviet-cybernetics-highlights-joint-publications-research-service-jprs-reports

books:
http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/ [towards new socialism]
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=9FD4DCDC1C7DB6CAB9774B7AC6DF1633 [operations research, excercises]
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=E258CE40E4E969BDA57D9B44A71CC882 [operations research, excercises]
http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/%7Ewpc/reports/index.html#books

something in Russian on one of the researchers mentioned, Liapunov
http://www.nsc.ru/win/sbras/dates/Lyap/lyap1.html
It mentions that his main work is "Теоретические проблемы кибернетики", or "Theoretical Problems Of Cybernetics"
Looking for the book, I did find this pdf:
http://elib.ict.nsc.ru/jspui/bitstream/ICT/1154/1/Zhuravlev2.pdf
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ok, this is, in my opinion, everything somehow valuable from thread. Feel free to continue conversations, add more stuff, curse me for some unnecessary stuff, edit stuff I posted and so on
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>>2561
Sexual Robotic Asisstants (SRA) are to be issued for all members of the community, ages 13-18, for practice of sex education, while socialization is promoted through events of the Comsmol.

For the pre-revolutionary generation SRAs are to be issued per wish of the community member.

Robots are not to substitute human contact for our children.
OP of the original thread here, was considering whether I should start a thread here or not.
>>2520
Haha, I like how you replaced "JavaScript" with "Haskell".
Could someone maybe rewrite it to make less references to socialism and anarchism? I want to get something which I can publish to normies and not scare them off. You need to lure them in, you know?
You can't shout "Kulaki zasluzhili! Nichego Stalin ne sdelal plohoi!" while singing the Internationale in French and expect to get anything but "human nature" arguments or, worse yet, be ignored. You need to present yourself as advocating a reasonable solution to a relevant problem.
>>2554
I think he overstated the complexity of it. We already have commonly-used programs for solving sparse systems of linear equations such as GLPK. It can't be that hard to modify it to work automatically when given inputs from a secondary program which organizes the given data (what needs to be produced, what resources are available, and what productive methods are available) into a usable format. I'm teaching myself a lot about this in my spare time because I really want to try this. For one, I'm finally teaching myself C beyond Arduino. I have high hopes.
>>2561
>>2582
The problem with robots used for practice is that humans have far more complex control loops embedded in them. Self regulation in almost all parts of their body, brain and mind. And also in social interactions this complexity comes to play.

In central and eastern europe, there is a tradition of dance lessons for teenagers, who go there to learn how to dance and behave on formal events, and to learn the basics of etiquette.

The point is, even the complete asocial self hating depressed loser will be forced to function socially in this setting, even if it is the most nerve wrecking experience.

Plus even though some teenage girls can be quite cruel, there are those, who mostly feel invisible, who are quite forgiving and kind.

Look at it from this point of view, and since you already discuss this, you have such affliction yourself. When one cannot imagine why would any girl want to even have a conversation with him, what sense is there to ponder what is going on with sex.

If you were a Soviet hikikomori, you would be shipped to dance lessons for adults. And a line of work that would force you to interact with other people and see that your fears are baseless.

If you want to learn how to be among people, you have to learn among people. Also it is the easiest way. And learning that people are generally far more forgiving than one's sick paranoid and depressed mind would thing, I don't have to spell the rest out.
>>2582
>>2772
>>2561
This doesn't even have anything to do with cybernetic planning. Stop shitposting.
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>>2750
I don't think that one C library is going to bring us central planning, and I don't really think that we can reduce problem of implementing it to just writing "npm install central_planning" into console.

Main difference between you two is that you both see it from absolutely different degree. Try to make specification of what exactly you want to accomplish, you'll either find out that there needs to be done more than you think or, if you manage to make it "simple" enough, we might help you with coding it.

>>2774
funposting is good thing. It's bumping thread with more than just meaningless "BUMP" and sooner we produce pasta for robowaifu question, the better

also a few interesting links from thread a few months ago:
some information about OGAS:
1) https://aeon.co/essays/how-the-soviets-invented-the-internet-and-why-it-didn-t-work
2) http://sovietrussianow.blogspot.com/2013/01/project-ogas-unfulfilled-future.html
3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OGAS
Additional texts in russian language:
5) https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%B1%D1%89%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B0_%D1%83%D1%87%D1%91%D1%82%D0%B0_%D0%B8_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8
5) http://www.situation.ru/app/j_art_333.htm
6) http://ru.uacomputing.com/stories/ogas/

Cybersyn:
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn
2) http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/project-cybersyn/
3) https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/04/allende-chile-beer-medina-cybersyn/
4) http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/13/planning-machine
The way I see it, what we need to do is precisely that and have it write information to a decentralized ledger of some sort (any alternatives to Bitcoin's blockchain?). This, in turn, must be accessible by an easy-to-use interface which allows individuals to input, for each workplace, what productive method is available (material cost per unit of final product, environmental cost), how productive exactly is it (labor intensity, how many units of final product can be created per hour), and what materials are already available (therefore allowing us to determine what needs to be brought). To determine what needs to be brought to production and distribution sites, you need to plot the relation of goods left in the surplus stock versus time, plot the best fit line, and take its derivative to extrapolate how many goods will be needed to satisfy demand in the future.

If you have those basic components, then the rest of the stuff mentioned in my article will become trivial to implement. I'm looking to create an application that is fundamentally useful in the immediate world. All the syndicates and cooperatives and mutual aid societies will arise spontaneously around it as more and more people hopefully use it.
>>3203
Meant to quote this from >>3092:
>I don't think that one C library is going to bring us central planning, and I don't really think that we can reduce problem of implementing it to just writing "npm install central_planning" into console.
>>3203
well, you described what exactly should be on front-end, we can do that very easily. I'm willing to kill some of my time on fun stuff like this.

All problems are in your first sentence which will need to be designed in very clever way in order to make this whole "decentralized central planning" thing work.
So thread on leftypol is down, what now, us someone going to restart it?

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