/left/ - Leftist Politics

Viva La Revolution!

Mode: Reply

Max file size: limitless

Max files: 3

Remember to follow the rules

Max message length: 4096


IRC: Rizon.net #bunkerchan
https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=bunkerchan


Anyone have any particularly funny criticisms about Liberal/SJW types? Comrade 11/02/2016 (Wed) 17:44:24 Id: e6a66e [Preview] No. 2297
Anyone have any particularly funny criticisms about Liberal/SJW types?
So far I have:
-Number of Genders Jokes
-Did you assume____? Jokes
>>2297
I am probably dumb and biased because I am a tranny but I don't really like these kinds of jokes. I know they are just jokes but the thing is people who would rather I don't exist see them and it reinforces and strengthens their views. I know you probably don't have any problems with the majority of trans people and are just making fun of the people who want to be called star-gender (idgi either rly but I do believe that nonbinary identities can exist and are valid). Sorry for my terrible writing I hope you can understand and sorry for being so dumb and sensitive I just felt like I should say something idk.
>>2298
All of this is just my personal opinion, but I think it's completely OK to have gender disphoria/whatnot and to undergo whatever surgeries to fix that, whatever makes you happy so long as it doesn't hurt others. But gender/sex is a description of organs, not how you feel/act, and the liberal attempt at rationalizing human behavior into a spectrum of 'Genders' is very hypocritical from what they seem to claim how that identifying 'Male' or 'Female' limit people to certain behaviors. And sure, people can identify however they want, but it doesn't change reality. I could identify as a female Roloway Monkey on Mondays, and as a Unit Circle on Thursdays, but that doesn't change the organs between my legs or the physical attributes of myself. I'm certainly no expert, but either way: Why should these views be exempt from comedy? Non-leftists could be legitimized seeing our jokes about Hoxha & Co.
>>2298
> I know they are just jokes but the thing is people who would rather I don't exist see them and it reinforces and strengthens their views.
I've seen this argument made against sexist/racist/etcist jokes. I really don't like it. "You shouldn't say/do something because idiots might take it the wrong way" is an awful tradeoff that sells valuable (social) freedom for a highly questionable increase in security.

>>2298
>>2299
(Personal opinion) I think we (or rather, people in the humanities) collectively screwed the pooch on how to handle gender at some point. It's been a while since we've realized and recognized that sex differences in psychology and performance are almost entirely due to cultural and social expectation factors (i.e. "gender"). But instead of working towards the elimination of gender itself*, we apparently instead found it appropriate to lift genders into being (primarily) identities, and then working tirelessly to protect those identities. I don't see any benefit. Group identity leads to divisiveness and petty tribalism, and delays (or even prevents) the realization that we are all very much alike. I think the concept of 'trans' should go in the same place as the concept of 'man'/'woman', that is, the garbage disposal of ideology.

*in case someone accuses me of wishing for a gray world where everyone looks exactly the same, I'll formalize what I mean by this. I consider gender to have been eliminated if: any characteristic that is not directly linked to what's between your legs (so we exclude "buys tampons", but include characteristics like "does well in math" or "wears frilly dresses") is statistically uncorrelated with biological sex. that is, given that someone wears frilly dresses, the probability that they are female is approximately 1/2.
>>2305
That "gray" world doesn't sound too bad, I think I get what you mean, where we are comrades first and identarian adjectives last.
>>2305
You ever read anything on gender nihilism, it's basically gender abolition without the TERF baggage.
>>2324
Why are gender abolitionists mad about trans people? You'd think they'd be happy to have living proof that gender is bullshit.
>>2327
>hello I naturally experience myself as this specific gender even though it's supposed to be a mere result of socialization. I'll now proceed by solidifying the gender stereotype through my behaviour
Something like that I suppose.
>>2305
I think I pretty much agree with what you say here except I think it is important to note that even in a post-gender world trans people would still probably exist. What I feel like is not often said about trans is that for a lot of people it's about what body they have, not social and gender expectations. So even if we live in a society where it is completely normal for MAAB people to wear dresses and makeup etc, there will still probably be MAAB people who hate their biologically male bodies and wish to have a body closer to a bio female. The same is true for FAAB people wanting bodies closer to bio male. Maybe that's not what you meant at all when you say abolish the concept of trans and if so I'm sorry just wanted to say something.
>>2331
> MAAB
The terms MAAB/FAAB still make reference to the gender binary (otherwise why the compulsive need to conform to a particular physical standard?). So maybe what you mean is "someone who in our current society would have been MAAB/FAAB"? Okay maybe I'm too much of a pedant, I think I know what you mean terminology notwithstanding.

> trans is that for a lot of people it's about what body they have, not social and gender expectations
> So even if we live in a society where it is completely normal for MAAB people to wear dresses and makeup etc, there will still probably be MAAB people who hate their biologically male bodies and wish to have a body closer to a bio female. The same is true for FAAB people wanting bodies closer to bio male.
Trans is a pretty big umbrella but my point is that transgender cannot exist if gender itself isn't a thing anymore. And you're right, that indeed doesn't rule out people with body dysphoria (which may or may not be gender-caused). But if gender no longer exists, there is nothing distinguishing genitalia-related body dysphoria from other kinds of body dysphoria (e.g., "nose too large", "bad fat distribution", etc), so trans people who only have body dysphoria (and truly don't care about gender) are really just people unhappy with what their body looks like and who want their body to look more like someone else's (i.e. the opposite bio sex, although they may actually have a particular role model in mind). So do these people actually fall under the 'trans' label? I actually don't know. Maybe today they do, but in a post-gender society they would be seen just like anyone else who dislikes their body and would like it to look more like someone else's. I don't know.

> Maybe that's not what you meant at all when you say abolish the concept of trans and
Nah you're right, I should've said "transgender" specifically. I don't think abolishing gender will somehow magically make everyone happy with their bodies.

> if so I'm sorry just wanted to say something.
Don't apologize for goodposting, it's not like this board doesn't need the extra traffic.

>>2328
"Gender is dead. Long live gender!"
>>2332
Filtered wo-man and manlet to Its original meaning so people don't have to open google.
>>2332
Okay thank you for explaining and I think you are probably right. It's just quite difficult to think about these things when gender and identity and everything else like that are still such major parts of society.
>>2297
gender is a spook,
therefore transgenderism is a spook
>>2297
TERF and proud
>>2298
>I do believe that nonbinary identities can exist and are valid
That"s reakky fuckin spooky mate
>>2298
>>2358>>2359>>2360>>2361 (same person)
>nonbinary identities (...) are valid
This isn't wrong, it's nonsensical. Your identity is how you perceive and distinguish yourself in society (and it's often based on "social groupification" of characteristics like sex organs or skin pigmentation). How can it be valid or invalid?

People can (and should) refuse to acknowledge identity and identity-based arguments (because it's a spooky waste of time at best, and a divisive influence and an affront to social freedom at worst), and that's different from denying you the expression of your identity (which indeed should be permitted to the maximum possible extent).

Okay that was kind of abstract, more concretely people should reject arguments of the type "you can't act/say/do/wear/participate in/debate X because you're a Y", but people should be free (in the social consequence-free sense) to act/say/do/wear/participate in/debate whatever and however they want.
Thing is is that it's silly, but I don't really care, gender as it's self is pretty damn spooky, but who am I to judge in what makes people happy. But if people want us to instantly know their gender as "Female identifying-Female" that's bullshit.
Open file (256.88 KB 1136x640 IMG_0827.png)
>>2361

>Le Spook
your only identity is your labour identity

any other identity under capitalism is a commodity
>>2489
>implying labour identity cannot be commodified
>>2489
>your only identity is your labour identity
So, class identity.
>>2489
Sadly, most workers in (at least here in a first world country) are denying their class identity.
>>2489
>implying i work
>>2489
Class is not an identity. It's a material reality which can be empirically proven to exist. You can't "prove" that you're a redneck or black or a 20-gendered glowworm. No identities actually exist. They're all fabrications of the mind, once-useful abstractions of the world freed of their chains to dominate the rest of the mind. In a word, they're spooks.

As for wanting to be another sex (what's known as "gender dysphoria"), that's probably a mental illness. I remember some guy who read Lacan argued that pretty well on /leftypol/. I should read Lacan and Zizek one of these days.

Delete
Report/Ban

Captcha (required for reports and bans by board staff)


no cookies?